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Welcome into the Winklerverse. Welcome, those of you that are coming from the National Show and checking out this podcast. I have been clear, it is a Wisconsin sports. Centric podcast, but I'm also giving a vague. We might talk about other stuff.
We are going to probably start with Giannis. Uh which I did not talk about too much on the show this week. Because we've been taking calls about how sad everyone is instead. And I'm. And Yannis is a national topic.
Yes, a very national topic. Grant Bills and Paul Immig are with us. Hello. Thank you, Bart. Is a very special on the Dan Shaney YouTube stream, a very special gray edition.
of the show I don't know why we're all wearing gray. It's feeling somber. Yeah.
Solidarity. Feeling somber. Um I I've said, I keep saying, like, yeah, well, whatever. The show, by the way. Ever since we made the announcement that next Thursday is the final The Bart Winkler show on the Infinity Sports Network, hotter than ever.
Um I think Tuesday Tuesday was a real nice kind of I said some nice things. We had callers say some nice things. I think Tuesday was real good in that regard. Wednesday We should not be on the air anymore. We're both like, why are we doing this?
We got in a real good conversation, Marco Carlos and I, about baseball and Edwin Diaz to the Dodgers and the Mets and And I go to Marco, I go, you know, this is really fascinating because here we are. On sports radio, having this pretty good, I think, a lot of different angles. I'm asking questions, we're filling in the blanks. I think this is the kind of sports talk that people are. Listening for when they turn on sports talk radio.
And, um, You know, next Friday, we're just not going to be here. And it's just very weird. And I said, sorry. I'm Live on air processing a lot of these. Feelings that we're still doing this.
And somebody called in and said, I think it was Robert from Annapolis. He said, you guys are like a football team that knows they're eliminated from the playoffs. But supposed to show up for the final four weeks. Yeah.
And that's that's but we've been eliminated from the playoffs longer than people knew in the standings, which has been uh Interesting. And a testament to you as the de facto coach and quarterback that your guys haven't tuned you out, that they still believe in you, that they're playing for you in these final couple of weeks. That matters. Yeah.
But we all we do have our trip to Cancun booked. And have had for a while. Um Giannis, okay, this is something I didn't code for Denver. Huh? Denver is that code for Denver?
Are you guys good flyers? Because I'm worried this is the last podcast I've ever going to put out. I'm very worried it's just going to fall from the sky. I'm an elite flyer. I love sitting quietly in my chair with no reason to talk to anyone or go anywhere or do anything.
You're talking to an extremely anxious man, so yeah, take that for what it's worth. I need to keep saying things about like how scared I am 'cause that makes me feel better. I get it. I feel like if I keep saying it. And the the flight there is a one way, but the flight home is I got one transfer.
That's on you. I don't know why you would book. Oh, I could. It's the only way I could get back. Milwaukee's such a We'll fly out of Mitchell.
Just go to O'Hare. You might as well fly out of Madison or La Crosse if you're flying out of Mitchell. It's basically the same. Mm-hmm. I looked into it.
It's way cheaper also. From where? O'Hare. Yeah, so what what what's your excuse besides like you just defaulted to I didn't look soon enough. I got a buddy who always books right away.
And I'm like Just wait, dude. But I think I need to be one of these guys that, when something's on the schedule six months from now, I need to. I need to just figure it out. Yeah, waiting doesn't seem to work. Great, great comp for hotel rooms at weddings.
I always wait, and it always bones me. I just want to be one of those people that gets the save the date or the invite, and that day or that 24 hours books. Yeah, Paul, I'm going to have you do it because I'm never that guy. Yeah.
Um Alright, so Yannis. Here here's what I want to say before you go into I don't want to have my take yet. I just want to tell you. A little behind the scenes. Backdrop.
Here we go. Mm-hmm. First of all. Tonight. Thursday, the Bucs play the Celtics.
And I have a story, if you would indulge about my son. Who is six? I work. And my wife. Has tickets to the game.
With co-workers. And they're sitting in like an area. Or something. Box maybe. And so she's like, should I bring our kid?
And I said I think he would love that. The Bucs play the Celtics. The Celtics were the team that he was on last year in basketball.
So he likes the Celtics. Um enough. And I told him I don't like him, and we thought about it. But, you know, he's, he, I thought he would want to go. And He didn't want to go.
And I was stunned. But then he, like last night, he was begging to watch the NBA Cup between the Thunder and the Suns.
So he didn't, unlike basketball. But but we're like, why don't you wanna go? And he's like Yeah. I don't know anybody there. And I'm like, you know mommy.
And you don't have to talk to her friends. And he's like. But they're going to want to talk to me. This kid is Wise beyond his ears, but I mentioned my kid. He is his father because, yeah.
Why I'm all about Giannis and wanting him to stay and I've got the take that These guys have bogged him down. Like I do think the 10 years of reporting from Windhorse, Shams, whoever. I do think that that has gotten to Giannis. Yeah.
And I think a lot of people say, oh, you really think that Shams is affect It's not just Giannis turns on the TV, Sean says something, and Giannis is like. Oh, I should leave. I think it's this, the 10 years. Of this conversation. Yeah.
And people I gotta do a really better job of understanding that people are not as It's not that they're not as smart as me. Deep thinking. But I used this analogy the other day with the highways. A lot of people are on a one-lane highway. Their brain only has one way.
I have multiple lanes. I can understand everything else that's going on.
So Yeah, it's not point A to point B. It's All of this is getting to Giannis, is getting to his agents, is getting to his people, is getting to his family, is getting to his team. You know, you got his teammates having to answer for all this. It's like at some point, Gianna should say something because of that.
So I do think, yeah, after a decade of the noise. It is going to wear you down and it is going to impact you to say that what they're doing on ESPN does not impact, and people are grinding me online for this take. I'm not giving up on it. No, I am not giving up on it. It's the correct one.
at all.
So where do I stand? Like, if you were to ask me, do you think Giannis is leaving? Where do you stand? Where do you stand? I can publicly say What I've been saying But I will tell you privately.
I have already told my son. To expect Giannis to be traded. In the offseason, if not this season.
So I have already softened the blow. And he said. We will still root for Giannis, right? And I said. Yeah.
That depends, son.
Well, I said, but we're still Bucks fans. He goes. I will root for Giannis. I will root for Giannis, but not if they're playing the Pacers. But I will root for the Bucs and Giannis, but not if he's on the Pacers.
Oh, good. I thought that was good enough. That's good. A couple of things before I ask the actual topic. You are correct on this take, and you should continue pushing people who are not yet there.
They will get there. They will, I think.
Some will see it. eventually Um I think what you're saying is crystallized by two things that I've seen in the past 24 hours, both of which involved Rich Paul. Super agent. I sent you guys the clip t today. There you go.
Manly Drinking by Bart on the Stream. The first was: did you guys watch the clip I sent you where Rich Paul was on the podcast? He takes a call from Shams. You don't hear the other end of the while talking to Max Kellerman live, because Rich Paul. Felt he had to I have to take this call.
Shams is my guy. I have to take this call. Rich Paul said, like. Five words in this conversation in this call. Because Shams.
is controlling the net this is the Maybe it's because I've been there. I've been behind the scenes and I've seen the way that this is all built. I try to explain this to other friends, and they don't, you know, it's hard. It must just be a difficult concept in the sense of, like, if you haven't personally watched it happen. It's hard to imagine that it might actually be this.
web you know this much of a of the weaving of a web that's Deep. But that should that should be alarming. Like, if you can watch that clip of Rich Paul. Take a call from. An NBA reporter.
Have the NBA reporter control the conversation and then the conversation to end. That should tell you what you need to know. Second one, same with Rich Paul. Was advocate, I think advocating. I don't know even how subtle it was.
I think the Bucs should talk about Jalen Johnson. with Giannis in a hawks trade. I'm paraphrasing Rich Paul. But like You don't Yeah. You don't just mention that as a super agent in the league.
And then, like, well, I'm just saying. You can't just be like, well, I'm just kind of saying, like, no, like, you're inserting. The The likelihood that you might like this, that Jalen Johnson might like this, that it makes sense for both teams, and Jalen Johnson's for both. They're talking about the Heat, Tyler Hero, not a fit. Maybe Milwaukee.
So you st like. Uh Yeah. This could be a much deeper conversation on other topics, but like when you start to see the way that. Peep. You know, the sausage is made.
It's like, oh, like. Then you look, okay. I guess there's more to it than the simplicity of what, well, Sham's NBA, he does reporting. No. Like he is influencing The most influential people.
That's how you do this. Like, if you really want to be right, air quotes for those not watching, if you want to be right. You call Rich Paul, you say da da da da da. You call other, and you start dropping your. Perspective to fit it so that it all works.
That's obvious. I mean, listen. This isn't even like this, it is obviously what's happening. Yeah.
And Yannis is a human. Who has had this happen? And now he's got to listen to, I assume, like Kevin Porter Jr. or. Who was it, Kyle Kuzma?
And they're like, We never got sat down, you know, and then he's contradicting. The Chris Haynes report, which I mean, after two years of playing with Dame, it shouldn't be shocking that Giannis might want to use. Chris Haynes after You know. the relationship that was developed there. from an organization that never leaks anything.
So all of this to say, keep pushing your point, Bart, it is the correct one. And other people will get there eventually if they're willing to. Think objectively. I'm going to say something that I think could then pivot.
So I'm gonna take the ball from you and then I think I'm gonna pass it over to Grant. Love it. and ordered their gifts in a hurry. Shop the latest tech gifts in the Walmart app. Right now, someone in a Hardee's kitchen is about to warm up your holiday with the new grilled cheese bacon burger, charbroiled 100% Angus beef, bacon, and Swiss and American cheese melting on our soft buttery sourdough.
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Okay? Because I do think that ESPN or Shams and all these guys Clearly, they are trying to make this happen. Are they trying to make it happen? Because they've been saying it's going to happen for a decade and they want justification? Are they trying to make it happen for other reasons?
We can speculate on that. What I will remind people of. is that Reporters Have an agenda. People, we I don't know what it is, not not all. Everyone's got an agenda in some way.
Even if your agenda is to come across that you don't have an agenda, that's an agenda. Like every everyone has An agenda. Everyone's got a thing that they're trying to. Help do you can You can you can Piece together the T V's and their writing and whatever. It's the same.
Like, I think people can turn on a news station. and say they have a political bias. Because it's like cut and dry, one team or the other. But in sports, you're like, there's no way Adam Schefter would have an agenda. There's no way because he's the one guy defending coach today.
There's no way that any of these guys would have. Of course they have agendas.
Now, as much as I blame Shops. And to all. Do you need me to pass it back to you, Paul? I need to pass it to Grant. No, no, go for it.
I was just going to say, Adam Schefter, the same guy who would write emails to ownership of NFL teams and say, how's this look, boss? Yeah.
Literally, this is what happened. Go ahead. That doesn't mean Under the category of Two things can be true. That doesn't mean that I absolve Yannis. For his behavior.
For what is happening here? Mm. I was talking to Rami today. And I said to Rami. Because he's like Should Giannis have to address some of this stuff?
And I go, Well, here's the thing, Robbie. If all of a sudden I started saying, I saw Romi McLough go up to a playground and punch a kid in the face. I saw him do it. He would just ignore that. Right.
But if I kept saying it At some point. He's going to be forced. to answer or or maybe he's not. Maybe still he can feel like he's not. But If everybody else around Rami in his life.
Are instead answering it on his behalf. Wow. At some point. We need to hear. From the guy, and it is clearly.
affecting The team that has to answer about it, and KPJ's like, I'm not answering this anymore. It is clearly affecting them. And may I just add? That I will use the word ironic. That the one night Where we wanted to hear Giannis.
More than ever. After a game in the last few years. Oh, here we go. Not only did he happened to have a Non-contact injury. Oh boy.
But we have not heard from him since. Isn't that concerning? My turn? Yeah.
On the insiders.
So you on the on the idea here that more than one thing can be true. And that is often true. Bucks fans are frustrated with Shams and Windhorse and all these guys. And I get it because they've really been saying the same things for so long. Right?
It's like, hey, if there's actual news on the honest front that is specific, if they were saying this stuff now and it's happening, fine, but they've been trying to say this for eight years. Sure. Or, or. I don't even know if it's trying. We've just heard the same things forever.
And it's like, guys, at a certain point. This either needs to advance, there needs to be an update, there needs to be. Otherwise, like I just start to tune it out. But I think Bucks fans, it's hard to tune this stuff out. When you have the top insiders in the sport going on ESPN every couple of days.
And you know, spreading this stuff. Um but it's not made up. It's, I don't think they have an agenda. Maybe Rich Paul does, but Rich Paul does. Giannis is repped by Octagon.
Like, he's not repped by clutch. But, but, oh, he left. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. Kidding.
What do you think? You think Sham's agenda is to get Giannis to a bigger market? I think Sham's agenda is to make sure Shams is right. That's correct. That's a way.
He's been bullshitting for years. I don't know that he has. And also, and also, Rich Paul. has a client, if I'm not mistaken, Jalen Johnson. who might not hate the idea of being a buck.
to be the franchise player in his hometown. Rich Paul might have an agenda. He's different than Shams. Rich Paul, of course. Maybe right now, I'll use the divorce analogy, which I used with Shams before.
I said online that shams Is like the guy at your wife's office. That wants to bang her.
So he's been talking shit about you, even making some stuff up. Maybe right now. Shams is driving by Your house. And he sees A suitcase? thrown out the upstairs window.
With all of your belongings. And he's going to say. Oh man.
Something's going on there. There might be the big D happening. That'd be accurate. But Shams also drove past your house six years ago.
So You in the front yard just being like. Scratching your head like, ah, just doing that and being like What's that about? He's unhappy. There must be a divorce. I'm going to tweet that some, you know, sources are telling.
So, so I. Fuck him! Fuck him with every fuck I can fuck! He's a piece of shit. He is a piece of shit.
100%. Just the garbage. Fucking piece of shit.
Okay. Can I have the ball back? Yeah.
I don't know shams. It's been a really annoying. Couple of years because it's just the same stuff. But, like, the agent's name is all pieces of by the way. Agent's name is attached to it.
You don't attach Giannis's agent's name to something if it's not. Legit, like that. That agent is a piece of shit, also.
Okay, do you just want. I told him that we weren't gonna do anything, and then he did a slam dunk, and they were all like, That's a great callback, by the way. Good for you. Only some people get that. The grants.
Uh no, um commercial from yeah, you're okay.
So we're not going to align on the insiders, which is fine. I think that I just tuned them out for the most part. The report that annoys me, like the actual basketball of it all and the contract and the relationship between the team. I can't remember if it was Haynes or Jake Fisher reported that Giannis and his representation told the Bucks: We're going to give it 20 games. We're going to see how it looks.
Right? Yep, 25 games. Yep. We're going to give it 25 games. That's so stupid.
Like whose pl whose plan was that? Was that Giannis or what? Because if it was Giannis, his agent has to be like, oh, no, no, no, that's like, no, we're not going to do that. It's either going to go down this summer or this is. We're going to be here for a year.
You know what I mean?
So I don't know if that's the agent. I don't know if that's the agenda. I think all So, I just think this has been handled really poorly. I really like Giannis. And if you request a trade tomorrow, I will wish him well.
But if it continues to go like this, like I'm already getting sick of it. I'm already getting sick of it. And I think the Bucks probably are too. There's like.
Sorry. No, that's about it. I just, he's at some point, Giannis, like you need to grow up a little bit. Like, you can't let everyone else answer for you. And you can't go to your teammates and say, we have to tune out the noise.
I can't control the noise. Yeah, you can. Because even if Giannis, even if Shams and Wendy, this is the last thing I'll say. Even if they're going on shows and being like, well, Giannis isn't sure. Giannis isn't sure.
It's like, Giannis. Is a big boy and makes his own decisions. You know what I mean?
If he tells his agent and tells the people connected to the agent, I'm here in Milwaukee for the year. You know what I mean?
Like, it doesn't continue. It's not like Giannis is helpless in this situation, and you guys are framing it like, well, what do you want Giannis to do? Shams keeps going on TV. Like, that's not how this works. Giannis also in the personal responsibility column.
can then in the midst of it and not commenting Post Instagram stories in the middle of the night with him longingly looking out to the Milwaukee skyline. Did you see this? Pretty good. of 19 year old, 20 year old Giannis. He did that.
It's probably still there and 'cause it was Yeah, you can't do that. Like you're coming. Is that good or bad? Bad. I mean, well, it depends, depends what your outcome you want to be.
Bad if you want him to remain a buck. Uh which You can look at it either way. Uh Yeah. Like if I was in lacrosse For eight years. And then I posted a picture of me eight years prior on Grandad's Bluff looking over.
Would that make you think that I want to leave La Crosse, or I'm reflecting on how my journey started? With all respect, you are not Giannis. And lacrosse is not an NBA organization. But granddad's bluff. Does the heavy lifting here.
If If everyone in your circles Your friends and family were like, Bart's talked a lot about moving to La Crosse. Like, what's up with him? You know, like, we're all wondering. And then you posted that picture, we'd be like, Yeah, it sounds like maybe he wants to do that. Let me also say this because for the longest time, I've been saying about Giannis, like all this stuff that he's posted, loyalty in my DNA, and everything like that.
And I've said that's fine, but I don't like when he does that because someday, if something happens, we're gonna look back at all that and be like, Why did you do that to us when you were going to change your mind? I really want like I Uh It is okay. To Feel Something That you like to feel a sense of loyalty, to feel a sense of pride to something. And then later not. It is okay to Like We are human.
We change, we evolve. Statute of limitations is run out on some of those loyalty things. That was so long ago. And I think that we're in a situation where, like, Giannis right now. Is 31?
Did he just turn 31? Yeah.
So He grew up the way he did. came to this place Grew up that also here. Of course he's going to be romantic about it. And then at some point you may like. I don't know.
Like, you only, I don't like what Lane Kiffin did. But Lane Kiffen, like, he only he also lives one life.
So Do what you want to do. I mean, your mind is going to change. Things are going to change. We have hoped. Because of how Just unreal it is that he was actually here.
And when it Two championships with us, NBA Cup. Uh that that We hoped he would want to be here forever and play it out. But we do think, and we have known for the longest time, that maybe it doesn't work out that way. If it's not going to work out that way. That's why we came into the summer.
Saying, okay, if there was a time they've tried everything. Their backs are against the wall. It's probably as good for the team as it is for Giannis to want change. It totally makes sense. No harm, no foul.
But now if he gave the Bucs one idea. And then they're like, all right, well, we're in a corner. What can we do? We'll stretch Dame. We'll get Miles Turner.
If we're going to do this stuff to continue to keep him here, and then a third of the way into the season, he's actually like, no, my leg hurts, I want to leave. Then he's not, and he's going to come back someday, and we'll love him, but. He has got to do, I said this too. He's earned a lot of equity. He's earned a lot of equity about how far.
We will go to defend him and appreciate him. He is, he is fucking burning through that shit right now. I agree.
So. Let me take that ball for you. And how is nobody telling him that? The same people who aren't telling him that are like, hey man, let's come back and play 20 games and then we'll reassess. Idiots.
Yeah, no matter how humble a beginnings a superstar, I think, in any industry started from.
Okay. If you are a superstar in any industry long enough, it's hard to find the person who's like, yeah, right, exactly, pointing over to this guy. It's hard to find the people who be like, hey, are you sure this is Milwaukee? That doesn't look like Milwaukee. I saw that picture.
It looks like Greece. Yeah, you sure this isn't Greece? I'm telling you what the post that I saw was referencing it. I have no idea. This looks like fond du Lac.
Um So, I'm going to take that and I'm going to answer this because so far we've had this whole conversation. By the way, for those from the national show. This is called We Ask a Topic Sometimes. Just welcome in a new audience to bonus coverage. Is that just shit that you slipped in there?
That was smooth. 30 minutes in, they're out already. They're like, yeah, it's already 47 minutes in. But we've gone that whole time without asking. And we've gone the whole time without somehow mentioning Grant's wonderful new Brett barometer.
Akin to Brett Favre, and at what point a superstar goes from superstar to normal superstar behavior to diva to like the full Brett Favre effect.
So here's what I want to ask you guys, and it's a callback. For the dedicated viewers and listeners. And they'll know that P.I. is good with the callbacks. Yeah, he is.
That. We've talked about on consecutive weeks, in fact. Matt LaFleur's approval rating. Grant.
So borrowing from Yeah. breadth barometer and how much perhaps his He's Giannis is teetering on like that. He's going, okay, you're going to start to lose people. Giannis's current approval rating with Bucks fans.
Well, it's going down by the day, right? Can we quick say that? It's going down by the day. is still at least eighty percent Pro Yannis. Or at least 80% are still like.
Love you, whatever you need, whatever you do. Love you. Love you forever. You're gonna have to really Fuck us over, Giannis, for us to drop this below 80%.
So I think there's a lot, I'd say, but I think there's a lot even above that that are like. We understand. This is difficult, but What are you doing? Yeah, well, just because it's 80% doesn't mean that that 80% isn't like, but TikTok, bitch. You know, like that's they're not gonna stay in the 80% forever.
But I do think the number is still pretty big. Yeah.
But What I guess, what will it Take For that to Even go 10 points lower. Another round of shit, like the shit that just came out. Another Shams, another Wendy. Another Haines. But that's what's hard.
It's like, and this goes back to the point of that Giannis has. If he wanted to do a one-on-one interview with any reporter, sports reporter in the country, including Adam Schafter, like he could make that happen. Gianozarski, sit down with him tomorrow. I would love it. He could go.
Giannis could go on his own social media accounts. He has control. If he wants to take control, he has the. The ability to do so. And he's choosing.
Not to. Um But to your thing, Grand, Giannis can't control the next Shams, the next Wind Horse. He can. Mm. They're not reporters, they're not terrorists.
Like, yes, Shams is not going to come out and be like Giannis and his agent are having discussions if that doesn't come from somewhere. They're not just free. Yes, they do. Shams has made stuff. Yes, they do.
They embellish. They embellish. They embellish. They suck at embellishing then because they've been saying the same stuff for years. Grant.
In back-to-back days. Brian Windhorst, who I generally think is perfectly fine, but this is where you start to get into the day-to-day, and you're like, he said. Giannis w asked to be trained. Correct. A day later said.
Well, he didn't ask to be traded. Yeah.
You know why? Because they're, because they, I mean, Grant, come on now. How do you know? You know why I think that happened? Is because I think he.
Did he requested a trade? All the way without ever saying, I'm requesting a trade. Like, I want you to call the Knicks and I want you to talk to them, and I want, like, He did 99% of it. And Windhorst is like, yeah, but guys, he fucking requested a trade. Like, come on.
And then Giannis in his camp reach out and say, I didn't fucking request a trade. Don't say that.
So Windhorst the next day is like, he didn't actually request a trade, even though he totally did. Right? Like, This is the fault of this is the fault of Giannis and his camp being like, we didn't request a trade, and all the insiders are like, but yeah, you did, but like, okay, we'll pussy foot around it to appease you. I guess it depends what the timeline is that you're referring to. Let me ask you guys this: you're very well read on it, very well read in on the situation.
Is it Generally accepted at this point by the three of us. And maybe Bucks fans that Back in August. Giannis did at the time. Maybe for the first time ever. He did request a trade to the Knicks in August.
Are we accepting this as fact? Did this happen with? Objectivity. Is this what happened? He had his team explore a trade.
That they were not interested in exploring. His team, as in his agent team, were his John Horst front office Bucks. John Horst and the Bucks. They didn't want to do that. But they but Giannis, maybe through his people.
That did happen though. Are we taking that part as fact? I am too. I don't believe anything. That's fine.
You can believe what you want. We don't need to get bothered here on this. Where are you taking this, Paul? I'm just taking it as like, what do we want to at least go into any of these reports with as fact? And what do we want to take as like, because Bart and I are largely on the same page with the narrative-driven and the, the outcome influencing That's happening.
That's happening. I would say I believe stuff that Sean's a saying. Is true. Because he made it true.
Well, so What? Yeah.
Grant's going to disagree with that part. Grant, the part that I'm trying to establish as the baseline is like. Today, what do we What do we think we know? What do we know? What do we believe as what has happened?
Whether the how and the all of it. I believe all of it. Because none of it is that earth-shattering. Sham saying Giannis and his agent are in discussions with the Bucks. That's so reasonable.
You know what I mean?
Like, that's not, there's no way I don't believe that. Like, okay, but so, but did Giannis, again, what's our baseline here for truth? Giannis did or did not. Sit, meet with his teammates and have.
Okay, so hold on, hold on, hold on.
Okay. I want to talk about the teammate meeting thing because I have a nit to pick with Bart on this, but I want Bart to say his piece first. But I want to do the teammate meeting thing. Just put me on the bench. I'll tap in when Bart's done.
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Additional restrictions apply. Visit Lowe's.com slash terms for more details. Subject to change. I just want to say I think one of the things that's the most grating about The um Giannis stuff was shams. Maybe everything Shams is saying is 100% correct.
Okay, and Shams is the greatest reporter of all time. But I'll say that comparison, that analogy I said again. I don't need the whole fucking story. Just tell us something when there's news. It's been nine years of this.
So I agree with this. This is a real gripe. Like, just, okay, here's another segment, and here's, yeah, I agree with that. Yeah.
What do you want to say about the teammates?
So that sent me because Haines said, Well, Giannis met with teammates and. You know, told him to focus on this, that, and the other thing. I'm like, oh, okay, that's good that Giannis did that. I. I'm a little frustrated because he's creating the outside noise.
Now he's telling his teammates to ignore the outside noise. And then Kuzma. And Kevin Porter Jr. come out and they're like, well, we didn't have a meeting. It's not like he sat us down.
And I'm like, okay, this is the kind of shit that's going to get me off this ride. Because Bart, and I'm not calling you out here. I want you to respond to this. If this exact type of situation happened with Aaron Rodgers, you would have gone ballistic over needing to like parse words about, well, what is a meeting? And what like it's that it's that type of stuff.
Paul, when you ask what's going to get fans pissed off, it's the he said, she said, mincing words over, well, I didn't say parents. I said folks. I didn't say. Maybe Gianna sent the text just like, hey, ignore this, guys. It wasn't an apprenticed, an apprentice-style sit-down, says Kyle Kuzma.
Yeah.
I don't need that. That's the type of stuff that'll get me out of the. Have me wanting to get off the honest ride. I think we have three different things. Each of us has our own thing that is the most irritating about this.
I think Bart's is the shams thing. He doesn't like shams. That's and that's fine. That's cool. That's cool.
Has that been? Did I make that clear? I thought I think with the repeated like news, I think that points get red. We'll watch it on playback. I like Windhorse more than Choms.
I just like the cut of his jib, his presentation. I just enjoy him more, even when Windhorse is covering basketball because he likes basketball. Yeah.
Shams likes being a piece of shit. And knowing things first. Yeah.
And trying to, you know, have sex with Kay Adams. No no granted, if Brian Windhorse wasn't right there when LeBron was 18. You know, we all have circumstances that can be beneficial or not. You know, though, I don't, I don't think that that needs to be part of Windhoek. I don't think that you need to say that.
He's been a good, he's done a good job. I agree.
Sure, you can dig it up. Everybody needs a break. If I didn't know Zach Galva, I went to get this national show. It's not to discredit what happened afterward, but like. He's not a LeBron merchant, and everyone wants to make him out to be that, which I also think is unfair.
I think he was for at least 10 years a LeBron merchant. I think he was. And I'm a makes me an L. Michaels merchant. That's fucking fine.
I am a merchant. This was not anti-Windors. The thing that I think we each have in a different view of the most annoying part of this. Mine is by far These apparently respectable NBA analysts. On various podcasts and shows, like national folks.
With the worst Fucking fake trade ideas. That anyone I mean it would I want off for the ride of Is these horrifically stupid? There was one on today, and this was a friend sent me, but I think he got it from.
Someone had posted on social media, and it's someone who just sucks, Kevin O'Connor, right? Just really bad at this, like, really remarkably remarkably bad at this. And he's doing this show. And have you guys seen the fake trade that he's talking about on his show?
Okay. It is Bucks Receive Jalen Green and Grayson Allen. Let me say that to you again. Jalen Green and Grayson Allen. Warriors get Giannis, Sons get Jimmy Butler.
So the box. Why would anyone want to do that? Let me just make sure we're clear here. The Bucks traded Giannis for Grayson Allen and Jalen Green.
Meanwhile, The Warriors got Giannis for Jimmy Butler. Anyway, the point, there are so many of these where it's like. Even regardless of the context, like if they put that on the screen and they irregardless. Irrespective of that. Not a word, fucking not a word, irregardless, not a word.
The one smart thing you know, Twitter. Even if they put that on the TV and they're like, well, that's a really bad idea. Like, there are so many examples like this that what I want off the ride of, but here's what I'm worried about. And then I would like to do a pivot. The Packers pivot.
That sounds great. I actually want to do a brewer's pit, but we can follow your lead. The I guess what I'm worried about. And I wish I had more confidence to not be worried about. Is that while there's a ton of really bad fake trades, and none of the really bad ones will be the ones that eventually come to be the Giannis trade, like this horrific.
thing that I just read you. I'm I'm I'm nervous. That the Bucks are gonna do Some horseshit next deal. I'm I'm I'm If Giannis gets traded before the deadline, I think it's at least 50% that it's to the Knicks for some bullshit horrible package. I'm nervous about that because I'm nervous that they're going to let Giannis control his destiny to go where he goes and his destination, I should say.
And they're going to try to sell us on Carl Anthony. Town's my least favorite player to watch play. What do you owe, Giannis? What's that? You don't know Aunt Giannis anything.
That's what they should say. I can't say healthy in the playoffs. That's what they should say. They should obviously not take this as like a anything and they're not they're reportedly Shams, windows. They're reportedly not doing like this exclusive negotiating window.
A la The Mavs with the Lakers on the Luka thing, or even what apparently happened this past August between the Bucs and the Knicks. But as bad as some of these fake trades are, that's what I want off the ride. If I want the trade to be done so I can say, like, how did. the bucks actually do. Did they come out of this with like Jalen Johnson and the unprotected Pelicans pick?
That's going to be top three in a loaded draft. If you come away with that. in like some Porzingus expiring bullshit. Like, I'm gonna be like, let's, like, this is a, like, you know, I. I'm gonna love that.
If I try to get sold. On an OGN and OB Carl Anthony Towns trade. Because, well, we also got to dump the Kuzma contract. And you got, like, I'm like, that would be peak John Horst. Hey, the guy that I acquired, I was able to dump.
An asshole. I hate what he does. By the way, you traded away the best. And I'm fine. I was fine with.
I'm not going to rewrite it, like, of the Middleton Kuzma thing, like, whatever. Like, Middleton was quite washed. There's the emotional friendship component, and Giannis being a loyal guy. And so, there's more to it than just the basketball of it. But I am Very.
Nervous that we are less than two months away from the Carl Anthony Towns Bridges or Ananobi lead bucks. And I'm out. Like, wow, good. I still will watch the NBA. I enjoy the NBA, especially come playoff time.
But I'm not cheering for that. And that's coming from a guy who has advocated for Giannis trades, who still thinks it would be a good idea to do like a Hawks trade. Like, I think there's something out there that would make more sense than the current construction of the box. I'm Pro, the exploration of all of that. But if it's that, if it's a NYX package, I'm not saying it's what I'm nervous that it's going to be.
Well, that leads me into my Carl's Place voicemail question of the week. Yeah.
My favorite segment. What a pro. We've not done this once, by the way. National people. You can leave a voicemail 402-915-2278.
That's 402-915-BART. Because what I was thinking of when we were talking about this is.
So let's say Giannis gets traded. And we in this state have seen. Two really beloved athletes. Leave us? Aaron Rodgers was different than Brett Favre.
When Favre left. People left the Packers. Yeah.
For, I mean, I think most of them have come back, but people were so mad that they did cheer for the Vikings. To beat us because they were so in on Fav. Despite how much we love Giannis. I don't think I don't think anyone's doing that. You don't think anyone's I don't think anyone's like, fuck the Bucks.
I'm a Rockets fan now. Fuck the Bucs. I'm a Knicks fan now. But you're saying they would be both. They might be like, like, your kid.
No, okay, Jan, it's good for you. I'll root for you if you know. You're in a playoff series against somebody, but I'm they're not gonna like go out of their way to watch Giannis play. Uh They're not gonna all of a sudden like When when Favre was gone, all of a sudden the T V networks here were showing every Jets game that fall. That happened.
There's not there's not like People are just going to say, all right, he's gone now. Yeah.
I don't think we're going to try to latch on. No. And keep it going the same way we do with Farvin. You don't think that, like, let's say Houston Rockets, you don't think. There's going to suddenly be Hundreds of Giannis Rockets jerseys around Wisconsin?
No. Yeah, Mike and Wasa, who won't wear a Bucks t-shirt, is going to get a Giannis Antedecunpo Rockets jersey.
Some kids might get one. No, I really, and I want to know if I'm right and why that is. I really don't think, like, we will still, oh, yeah, I like Giannis. I'm watching a game. Oh, Giannis, good for him.
Oh, he's in the NBA championship. Oh, yeah, I'll root for them. You know, we like Giannis. But maybe we won't. Maybe we only want him to be a one title with the Bucs kind of guy.
I think the Bucks, Bucs fans. It's it And I get this is a credit. Like being a Bucks fan, it's not for the faint of heart. Wisconsin sports fan in general, typically. But Bucks are more.
Yeah, well. I think brewers lead the state in what you're describing, but. Yeah, but brewers brewers. The Packers are a religion, obviously, and they've been good forever. The Brewers have a lot.
The Brewers have the most. Casual fans. The Brewers have the most casual fans of the three. Ooh, I don't agree. I don't know.
I think the Packers have the most percentage-wise of those who are like, I'm a Packers fan. And then because there's less games and Brewer, people will go to Packer games and people will watch these games. And then that will. You could tell the mood if you just drive around on a Tuesday randomly. You can tell if the Packers won or not based on how traffic is flowing.
Does having a game on and or being in traffic during said game change one from casual to informed. Let me let me Let me tell you about Well Green Bay Packers. Let's say you get offered a free ticket. To the Green Bay Packers. If you frame it this way, you're going to.
Who's turning that down? What month is it? How cold? Although Paul and I are both like, well. But if it's December, I'm turning that I mean, i i is it fifty yard line?
The brewers. My point is, I have parameters on accepting this.
Well, you do.
Okay, so The brewers, I do too. The Brewer, like I would never go to this Bears game this week, it's gonna be 10 to 3. He's not better than me, the Brewers. People go there. To hang out.
And there's buses from all over the city or the state. If you go to a Bucs game. Do you know how many people get tickets for a Bucks game and are like I gotta go downtown. Yes.
Okay. Does parking come with? Can someone walk me to my car if I park on Cherry Street? Oh, Jesus Christ. Here we go.
Bucks fans. You are like The Bucks, you have every reason to just bail on this team. They gave you a title. That still doesn't feel real. The Bucks fans.
As a whole, and I know, you know, and piece by piece. By Bucks fans. Your own state doesn't even like you.
Well, it's cheaper to keep 'em. It was cheaper to keep them. That was the sales pitch. It wasn't, hey, there's a fucking NBA team right down the road. Could you imagine the brewers leaving and being like it's cheaper to keep them?
We'd never get to that point because we'd be like The fucking brewers are leaving. To be clear, was that the official catchphrase? Yeah, it was, right? It's cheaper to keep them. Yes.
That was it. Cause the athlete's luxury tax is gonna fund a. To fucking highway expansion. To be fair. The Bucks were Not even in the ballpark.
It had been decades of shit basketball. With a year or here or there of, like, oh, they're pretty good. Or, like, hey, that Scott Skylest team really hustles. Like I get it. In retrospect, it sounds ridiculous.
At the time, it was like. Liking the Bucs was a niche hobby. I just think you're describing the difference between the three American sports. I don't think this is reflective of Wisconsin sports fans at all. I just think this is the difference in NFL, MLB, NBA.
You know what I mean?
Having you're saying like having one game a week for Yeah. Four months. Yeah.
People go to baseball games to hang out. That's true in every market where there's a baseball team. You know what I mean?
Now, you could, you could. Packers are the firstborn. Yeah.
The Brewers are the baby. The Bucks are the middle child. But wouldn't that be true in every market? Maybe not in LA and New York. Maybe Lakers, Knicks, be the top ticket.
I'm not even sure why. What was my original point to this? No idea. Anyway, do you think the Packers will beat the Broncos? Yeah.
I did see some Running run defense Broncos stats Versus Packers run offense between the tackle stats. The Broncos are like 26, then run defense on runs between the tackles. Defensively, so they're terrible at stopping it. And the Packers are fourth in the league offensively at successfully rushing between the tackles.
So. It was basically framed as like prepare for a 40 to 45 carry afternoon. By Packers running backs.
So it'll be a short game because the clock will be running. And it will be I don't know. I I still don't know how good Denver is. I don't know. I think they're like the Chiefs last year.
They just find bullshit ways to win. But without the pedigree and without the winning culture, they're a little bit better version of the Chicago Bears right now. But that's still pretty good. No, they just find a way to win. They got a lot of good players, though.
That's the thing.
So they're a better version. Yeah, but like a much better version. You think Denver, like top-to-bottom roster, is a better roster than the Bears by a lot? Yes.
Yes.
Maybe not by. A chasm, but do you want to do like a should we do a position-by-position comparison at some point? I don't know. Like, just about every single battle. And I think the Bears are good.
But yeah, yes, they are. The Broncos roster, very good. Hold on, let's just start. I got to do one question on this. The Packers have to trade Jordan Love today for Caleb Rabonex.
Who are you trading him for? Caleb. Yeah, probably.
Okay. The Packers have to trade. Josh Jacobs today. For either Swift and Manungai or Harvey, and who's the other Flip a coin, I don't give a shit. Oh, wrong answer.
They're tight ends. Oh, the Bears are better. You're right. The Bears are better. They have better receivers.
They have better tight ends. Oh, you're right. Running backs and tight ends. Yeah, those are the most important positions on. And receiver and quarterback.
Chicago Mike Dicko is a tight end. Linebacker, edge rusher. Cornerback safety. We can go through the whole thing if you want. Who does?
The Broncos. They would be like wide receiver 3-4, maybe. Yeah, DJ Moore was great on Sunday. Wow, what a player he's been. First off, Caleb, while being good, he can't go two more years of being a 52% completion percentage, even if he's going to be elusive and do all the things that he's good at.
Especially with those weapons and that coach. Can I bring up one more thing football-wise? Would love to. We can stop debating Bears versus Broncos. But there you go.
Phillip Rivers. Is going to make the Hall of Fame because of this now. What would you have said his chances were prior? Let me read a post from Jeff Bell, if I may. Conspiracy theory.
Philip Rivers knew he was in a tough spot in the Hall of Fame. Breeze, Eli Rivers, semi-finalist. Breeze is a lock. Eli will get in.
Next year, Big Ben is eligible. Puke. Then Tom Brady and Matt Ryan. Then it's a cliff. Rogers and Stafford are coming up.
otherwise likely nothing until the Mahomes Allen generation. Rivers is 648 yards behind Big Ben. He can get one more shot at postseason success. Pass Big Ben in the process as a crazy final chapter to his story while resetting the clock. He could risk sitting on the ballot multiple years by then, people are already asking if he should be in.
He was fifth all time in passing yards when he retired. He's now seventh. Stafford's 300 yards away. Rivers 640 behind Big Ben. There is like a middle group.
There's this group, the upcoming group. Rivers is going to get talked about now, where we're not comparing him to his contemporaries. As much as we're comparing him to like Jacoby Brissette. A couple of things. First off, though, he just to be clear, he has to actually play a snap to restart his Hall of Fame.
I think so. I'm pretty sure that's correct. He has to actually even being on the active roster is not enough? He has to.
Well, he's not on the active roster yet.
So even that is still.
Well, it sounds like he's going to start. We'll see. I mean, Riley. You don't bring the circus to town and then say it's close. Yeah.
So, just so you know, I'm pretty sure, Bart, you have alluded that you do similar things at. You'll quick ask AI about a topic you don't know about. I'm done with AI. They can fucking. Torch.
Listen, AI told you you weren't having a heart attack. You better be indebted for longer than AI told me I didn't need to go get stitches for this thing, and I did. But you didn't end up getting stitches. You just got a bandage. Oof, don't, I told you not to show me.
Previously, it's healing.
So, what do you think AI says Philip Rivers' chances to eventually be in the Hall of Fame is? Great question. Thanks for asking. Let's delve into this together. What do you think?
I'm serious. Did you ask? I did. I had the answer. AI's chances of rivers making the Hall of Fame?
Yeah, it gave me a whole bunch of analysis of like the pro football, there's a monitor. 87%. There's a pro football reference Hall of Fame monitor score, apparently. 87.
So I'm sorry, what was your answer? My answer was six, seven. Is it an actual percentage you want? That's what I was asked for and that's what I was given. It should be like 25, but it'll probably be good.
75. Puke. AI is also really bad at sports. It is. We've talked about this, right?
About. Ask them who the Packers play this week, and they'll say the Dayton Triangles. Mm. Uh I'm out on Big Ben and Breeze and Russell Wilson and Philip Rurbs making the Hall of Fame. They're all going to make it.
Which is disgusting to me. Using the whole era. That's just every quarterback that was somewhat good in an entire era gets to be in the Hall of Fame. I do wish it was more exclusive. Of course.
What's the point? Leroy Butler had to wait 30 years, and it's like, ah, Rochless Burger, he was a good old man. He won some games in the cold. Remember that? Fuck it.
Why not? Put him in. Like, gross. He had that tackle. Yeah.
Just to be clear. Yeah.
The Green Bay Packers do not play the Dayton Triangles this weekend. That team was an NFL charter member from 1920 to 29, long before the Packers' modern dynasty. Nice history, nod, though. This weekend, December 14th, the Packers hit the road to face the Denver Broncos at Empower Field at Mile High in a key AFC-NFC matchup. Kickoff is at 4:25 p.m.
Eastern, broadcast on CBS. I hate how it's trying to be funny now. Yeah.
I hate that it writes the like there's so many one thing I do now online is When people clearly write in chat GPT, I say. Nice fucking chat GPT. Yeah.
No one's ever responded yet.
Okay. We just need to behead some of these people who are coming up with this stuff. The the the time person of the year. Yeah, people of the yeah, sure, people of the people that made up It's got them all sitting on that, you know, that New York picture where they're all sitting on the beam. Lunch in the clouds, or whatever it's called.
Yeah.
Great picture. Fucked up that it was real.
Well, now we don't have to take pictures.
Now we don't have to take pictures. AI, Paul, what about Disney? Oh, I thought the Sora thing? Yeah, they're going to let you do your own Star Wars, and if it's good enough, they'll put it on fucking Disney Plus. Uh Those subscriber fees are going up too, I bet.
Yeah, it is. Disney Plus. What I am curious about, though, is like: do you, if they pick it up? Are you paid for that? Do you yeah.
No, I mean, really, like, I think your reaction is appropriate, Graham, but I am curious. What I'm curious about is. I was told at a young age. The Earth is not going to be around forever. And I thought, that's crazy.
What do you mean? And someone said, Well, the sun's going to expand and engulf us all. And I go, oh no, do I need to worry about that? And they're like, no, that won't happen for 9 billion years. And I go, thank God.
And as I get older, I see so many people like, hmm, the end of humanity? 9 billion years? That's not long enough. Let's try to do it in 9 years. That seems to be what is going on.
Oh, and speaking of the insidification of the world. FIFA is adding water breaks to every World Cup game this summer. AKA. Three-minute ad breaks in fucking soccer. The one like appeal of it was no commercials.
Now, basically, there's going to be quarters at the World Cup. If you can afford to get in. Are you going to have to give a couple years of social media history to get access to it? You know, you're going to, yes. Yeah.
Yeah.
Same, and they've already started the Broncos game this week, and I had to show them my old hotmail address: Bart the Captain 15. Mm-hmm. And I gave him my GeoCities where I had a little dancing cartman on it. Oh. Hey, did you uh I gotta conclude with this and then I gotta go.
Just to harken back to I gotta go. You gotta go. I'll just happen to also go. On the topic of just the horrendously stupid shit you have to read if you follow Box News. The Warriors are reportedly willing to include Draymond Green if they can get Giannis.
I'm like. You fucking people are going to Destroy me. Like Yeah, it's not that Paul doesn't like trade ideas. He just wants the salaries to all match and the years to make sense. You mean to like use Logic and reasoning.
And basic intuition about how this works. Yes, I do want that. I don't mind the trade machine stuff. I just prefer to wait to do that until the player actually requests a trade, you know. Which has a hap.
Then, question mark. We're close enough. I think people can rip it. But, like, three summers ago, people were doing Giannis trades. It's like, okay.
Did you see the Bill Simmons? No, I didn't know. Aren't you proving Bart's point? earlier that It has been willed into existence. By influence.
If this was the 80s, Giannis wouldn't even be thinking about leaving. Your Durant take is a good one, Bart. I agree.
You agree that your take is a good one. Yeah.
Alright, bye.
Well, this has concluded another episode of Into the Winklerverse.
Now that we're an hour in, anything you guys want to promote? Just kidding. I'm only here to promote my book. I love doing it. I love doing a 45-minute.
What do you want to promote? No one's still here. Did I just hear you say, was that. Did you have which baseball writer did you have on that like gave you was really pissed at you because you didn't promote their book?
Well, that was passing eight years ago.
Okay. Well, I knew it was. I booked him. I just emailed him and said, can you come on? And he's like, absolutely.
And then he thought it was promoting a book at the same time. I did not know. And then he got all mad at me, but he did an Elmo impression one time, so he's cool. There you go. That's all it takes.
Mm. This was fun. Nice to see you both. See you guys. Bye for now.
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