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Each one listened and shouted, From Walmart? Who knew? Shop kissed from top brands for everyone on your list in the Walmart app. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome into the Winklerverse.
I'm Bart Winkler. Making his second appearance. You were on before. For like I was on via like phone call. I don't think I was on actually in on on camera.
No, I idiot on camera. Oh, I don't remember that. You remember the code I did while I was doing my real job? I did a podcast during the commercial break. The show within the show.
And this guy's on the Bar Winkler show, Carlos Ortiz, ladies and gentlemen. Hold on, I'm waving into the ether because if you're looking at this, I mean, what are you doing? And if you're listening to this, I'm waving. You can't see me. Yeah, well, we probably should have done this with the real show a year and a half ago.
Weren't we gonna set up a video and then we just didn't?
Well, yeah, that was management and our parent company failing to have the resources in order to do that.
So What a quality operation that we work for. And that's why it never manifested. I tried, tried my darndest, but then I realized, you know what? Maybe just doing a job of two people is enough for me rather than three. I could have always set it up from my end to put me out there and then I could have figured it out.
Well, you know what? Maybe there's no better time than now. I mean, it's not like we're going anywhere. That's a fair. That's true.
Um it's dude. Prepping for a show takes up a lot of my day. I don't have time for other stuff. Yeah, I know. What do you people think that we do all day?
I have to find articles that I'm going to read as if it's my own thought. That's tough. I have to find people that actually want to spend 15 minutes for free. talking sports or other nonsense with you with you and You know, that's not as easy. I'm like, oh, yeah, can you send me 10 grand?
I'm like, can you send me 10 grand? I needed more than you. You know, when I was first breaking in this business I always thought like there was a time I was on NBC sports radio. But it was at like twelve twenty in the morning on a Saturday.
So I said, yeah, because I get to be on NBC Sports Radio as a guest. That's amazing. And then I'm waiting around for this hit and I'm like.
Well I could have one drink. I could have three drinks. By the time you get on, NBC is CNBC radio. I could have written letters. QNBC.
I could have seven drinks. You know, when I did the I did a hit with Amy Lawrence recently? Oh yeah, because she was just like, oh yeah, we needed Packer's guy. Let's get Bart. And this is like probably your second conversation ever.
I was um I had had a seltzer beforehand from my friends at Happy Place Hemp. Promo code BART. And I think it hit during the interview. I've never told anyone that.
Well, now that's out in the Winklerverse. Yeah. Carlos Ortiz is here. Not to share stories about the Bart Winkler show, which we can listen to. What's that?
Which we can on the Fifth Hour podcast. Yeah. You want more of this? chemistry, just check out the show tonight. Um But this is I think this is only my second ever true eye on the enemy.
I've talked to, you know how you brand the segment. I've talked to Toby Altizer about the Commanders. Oh, yeah, look at that. who is in Spain right now for their game. Toby got to go.
Oh, that is awesome, actually, man. I would have loved to go overseas when the Giants. I think they were in Germany for the Panthers last year. And then I realized, oh no, I work in radio.
So that was not going to be able to. Come on, dog. Really? Mm-hmm. Dog knocks over my microphone and he's still sniffing it.
But yeah, but then I realized I can't afford that.
So that was not going to happen. And this dog really is a broadcast professional. He wants to be involved in here. Yeah, that's cool, Toby. I wish you could play some like Dark Vader music in post.
You know, um, you know, the the Imperial enemies coming. Although We're just going to lay down like the Star Wars Federation, so it's totally fine. It's a Giants.
Now, this is kind of. A lame stat. Because they've only played twice since, but the Packers haven't beat the Giants since 2019. Yeah, it's not, and I went to one of those games, but it's not indicative of either of these teams right now.
So, you went to the DeVito game? I was there. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, that it was a Monday night.
It was cold, and I spent a lot of money. I don't remember any of it, but it was awesome. Although, that win single-handedly nuked another one of the Giants' draft positions.
So I'm like, this is not going to be good long term. But what a great feeling. What a great feeling. I even knew at the time when it was happening, I hated it because I wanted the number one pick, number two pick. And of course, DeVito decides to have a game of his life.
And then he promptly gets folded the next three games after that. Baltimore, Philadelphia, destroy him. It just happened to be against you guys where all the stars aligned. could not be any more poetic. All I remember about that game is DeVita like rolled to the right and hit some guy in the corner of the end zone and he looked like Patrick Mahomes.
I'm almost sure it was Darius Layton. Don't quote me on that, but um. Yeah, it was that was a wild game, and I I wish you guys would have stepped up and actually been a real team so we could have, you know, got a better pick. I hated that whole run. I was proud of myself because I then saw Shane Gillis kind of have the a say a similar A similar not I'm not saying that Shane Gillis.
Listen to me and stole my take. That's something Bill Simmons does. Bill Simmons does that. That's right. Yeah, but Shane Gillis said that he feels like Italians are like the last kind of people you can make fun of.
Oh, I disagree because the Irish are right there with them. Yeah, I guess maybe the Irish, but I feel like that's why everybody was in on the Tommy DeVito because everyone's like, hey, it's a piscetty man, which I can do because I'm somewhat Italian. I have Italian blood in me. Yeah, I can't, but I live in New York where there's a bunch of Italians.
So it's like almost everybody's Italian by association. You got to do the hand gesture and the Ragu. I mean, give DeVito credit. Yeah, I'm offended. I'm offended you're doing that because you're not 2% Italian like me.
No, no, I mean, I get it. I mean, I had pizza yesterday, so I hope that helps balance it out a little bit. But no credit to him being a marketing genius, completely leaning into it. With the chains and the living in the mom's basements and the chicken cutlets and all that crap. What a run that was.
But I couldn't wait for that to be over. But could you imagine another, like. And I don't even want to say anything. But if somebody was of a different background and they're like, Oh yeah, I'm I don't even want to say anything. I'm like, yeah, I don't know.
If it was instead of Tommy DeVito, it was Tommy Diego, the Puerto Rican prince, and he's like, Throw he's like he's throwing back show back show back foot throws and then sandals. Uh and he's not throwing a football, he's throwing uh you know uh coconuts. And salsa data. I was about to text you stuff to say, by the way, I was about to just text you stuff. That I don't think I can say.
Uh as a white And I was going to check you to say it. I'm going to pivot now to why I had you on. And I will tell you. that there is genuine fear. of the Packers playing the Giants this week.
There is genuine fear. Because the Packers are bad. Playing bad. I don't want to say they're bad. They are playing bad.
Playing bad, sure. The news that Jameis Winston is starting. That should scare you. It is scaring us. Yeah.
It is it is scaring us. We don't like it? Um, should we be worried? Do you guys think you're gonna win? Do you want to win?
Well, I mean, there's a couple things going for the Giants. You lose to Mike Kafka and Jameis Winston. Matt LaFleur's getting fired.
So this became a big game that I'm suddenly not going to. Why? I don't know.
So it's actually a big game for both of our teams. And it actually might be the first game where both of us who are a fan of our respective teams. What That team to lose. Like, you're rooting for Matt LaFleur to get fired. I am rooting for the Packers to win.
I'm not.
So I'm full-blown. I want a Packers win as well. I don't want a Giants win because the season's over. Once again, I'm thinking of draft picks before Thanksgiving.
So, to me, it's all about setting up long-term success for the franchise. Beating the Packers does nothing, but pretty much assures the Giants won't be in the top three. Because the Saints are still bad, the Jets are still bad, and the Titans are probably not winning another game for the rest of the season with their schedule. Beating the Packers would be a tremendous blow to getting a top three pick, which is what I really want. Even if I don't make the pick, I'll be able to trade down and get assets.
That's something Joe Shane likes to do. You won't be in a position to do that if you start winning games. Um I think there are a good number of Giants fans. that think we can knock off the Packers. But I think the overwhelming majority realizes the Packers have been playing bad and they have been playing down to their competition.
The Philly game, I almost want to toss that out because Philly is not like they were marching up and down the field. Packers' defense still showed up. Yeah, I don't want to toss out all of it. The defense was great, the defense was great. It's that Panthers game.
It took you completely out of what you wanted to do. Game script completely favored the Panthers and it led into what they want to do. And you said it a couple of weeks ago: the Panthers beat the Packers. the way that Matt LaFleur wants to beat teams. And that's possessions, running the ball, seven, eight-minute drives that culminate into Josh Jacobs punching into the end zone instead of Rico Dado.
So, like, you, I think you can do that against the Giants.
So, the only thing that's going against the Giants is that the Packers are playing so bad. But it's the Giants at the end of the day with the worst run defense in the NFL. And with a good defense coming into MetLife and a pretty good running game. This is really poignant to me that I think the Packers, I don't know what the line is. But I would take the Packers in the points, and I think you cover comfortably.
I think the Giants will show up a little bit just because, all right, it's not Russell Wilson. But I don't think there's enough. offensive firepower to To keep the defense on its heels. I mean, Micah Parsons knows how to play the Giants. I don't think you guys should be too nervous.
I'm gonna look at the line right now. My guess. Is the Packers I would put it at five and a half? Five and a half, exactly. Yeah, that's the number I would have thought.
Exactly what I was going to say. And I and I'll hammer it. As a Giants fan, I would hammer Packers five and a half. And seven and a half. Seven and a half is a well no I I No, the line is seven and a half.
Let me not be a puss. I'll take the Packers seven and a half. And which one of us is gonna race in our sixth pack of picks? Because our numbers are so good to take the Packers seven and a half. Unless you want to take the Giants and be a, you know.
a complete emotional hedger. I I think you guys win this one by ten.
Well, I'm going to say what I said leading into the Super Bowl. Like, there's only two outcomes here: either the Eagles were going to blow out the Chiefs, or the Chiefs were going to win. By three points or less. Sure.
So in this game, I think the same way. Either the Packers figure it out and get right. Although with Jameis Winson, they will score, but they'll also like Jameis Winston. Two interceptions, two touchdowns. That's what he's doing.
Yeah, 1,000. His final line, we could take a look at it right now. His final line will be 253 yards. Two scores, two turnovers. What might do the Giants in is someone's going to fumble.
somebody somebody outside of winston is going to fumble and that'll be the difference in the game Jordan Lovell have three touchdowns, but throw for like a buck seventy eight. Yeah, just little, a little fade route to Romeo Dobbs, or Christian Watson just gets lost in the secondary and completely scorches Deontay Banks, or Javon Holland misses an assignment. Again, I think. I understand the trepidation as a Packers fan going into this game, especially since you're on the road. But MetLife, there is no home field advantage.
I've gone to a Packers Giants game at MetLife where there's a lot of Packers fans in the parking lot, a lot of Packers fans in stands, and MetLife has no soul. It's the Giants and Jets playing in a neutral gray cinder block.
So I If this was a Sunday night game. I'd be a little concerned for you. Because you guys don't do well against the Giants on Sunday night games. But the fact that this is like one of the afternoons kind of buried under the slate, this is going to be an easy Packers win. Again, Packers by 10, that would be my prediction.
We don't do well against the Giants on Sunday night games. Oh, no, no, you don't. The last Before the DeVito game, I went to Packers, Giants. I can't remember what year, but Rodgers was still here. I want to say, was it 2015, 2016?
And we had our way with the Packers. We destroyed Rodgers. That game was a lot of fun. There was a game in 2013. Maybe, okay, so then it's either even older than that.
So I, and I got pictures to prove it. But yeah, I got a friend that was drunk and hurled a chair at a group of Packers fans because he's like, you guys suck.
So we had to run over with a couple of Coronas and be like, oh, my bad, my bad. He's drunk. He's drunk. Uh which was crazy 'cause he wasn't that drunk. Um but that was a good time and you guys got clobbered on that 2013 game.
I know we don't do well against uh well, they did beat him once. But Eli Manning beat the Packers twice. Yeah, Eli Manning just uh He was never a great statistical quarterback, but if you had the game on the line with two minutes left and he had the ball, you were going to win. Eli Manning was one of the most clutch players in the NFL. And we don't have that.
We have.
Well, now we got Jackson Dart.
So, God willing, there's some clutch there. What do you show me against the Denver game? You know, when he needed that go-ahead score, that showed me that he was the franchise guy. And I have a lot of faith in Dart now going forward that I never had in like Daniel Jones or Eli in the end of his career. Um, but you're you're not going to be facing Dart.
If you if you were facing Jackson Dart. I do believe the Giants win by three points. But with Jameis Winston, they're going to score some points. But like you said, the turnovers were almost. put it in and in chisel, stone and chisel.
Two pit two turnovers by Winston, and it'll be some like errant throw where he'll take a shot into double coverage. Um, and then you guys will get all pumped up and then promptly score because we can't stop anybody against the run.
So, Josh Jacobs. Might go for 200 yards from scrimmage. Not sure if you have the experience to start your dream job? Good news. These days, it's the skills that count.
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So We like to do this. We like to talk to somebody with an outsider's perspective on our teams because we can get a little into it.
So you have somebody, Carlos, who you just went through the process of wondering if your coach was going to get fired, and then he did. Do you see similar signs with the Packers right now in their coach? Could you see the Packers coming into the Metal's? or whatever you call it. And uh And and and Matt LaFour getting fired after this game.
Uh this is gonna be the worst answer that you can possibly hear if you're a Packers fan that is Bart. uh and wants Matlaflor gone. Uh for all of you who are Matlaflor Truthers. Take this and celebrate. We could live in a world where the Packers will lose the game.
and Matt LaFleur will still be the coach. I firmly believe it because the Packers right now, that tie is hanging on to your season for dear life. If you lose this game, you're still in the playoff hunt. The only way that matters. It's getting late early.
It's getting late early, but the NFC is like they're just in the NFL in total. There's just so many teams that are kind of stuck in the middle. Like, nobody's really separated themselves. I don't think there's a great team quite yet. The Chiefs are going to be able to get the money.
But everybody around the Packers is going to make a run. The Niners are going to make a run. The Bears have a chance to make a run. I'm going to say that, but they still got to play the Seahawks. And the Seahawks are legit, too.
So maybe Seattle makes the run and not the 49ers.
So you would have 40. I told you the Niners schedule last night. It's like Cardinals, Titans. Panthers, it's really bad. Yeah, yeah, browns maybe not browns maybe That is a cupcake schedule.
But yeah, I think you guys could firmly lose this game, and Matt LaFleur would still be the coach. The only way he's going to get fired is if the Packers miss the playoffs. They're not going to make any in-season coaching changes because what's the alternative? You promote one of the offensive guys, Adam Stenovich. You give Halfley the reins, the D coordinator.
Like, yeah, the the I mean, it's the same with the Giants. What's the alternative? You just. Give Mike Kafka a job he doesn't deserve for eight weeks. Yeah, well, the thing with Mike Kafka is at least he's gotten head coaching looks.
You know, the Saints interviewed him for the job. Kafka was the coach of BC, my brother. Before Christ.
So Gafka had some interest in teams upper head coaching. Does anybody talk into the Packers OC? I mean, I think your DC will get a look in the offseason. But Yeah, I think you just ride it out with LaFleur as much as you I know you're gonna hate it. I also don't see the Packers much like the Steelers.
It's a franchise that's rooted in tradition. Very rarely do the Packers and Steelers or somebody these traditional franchises make changes in season. I can't imagine. I don't think you can. I don't think that's a way to manage your team, though.
You don't know, I don't think so either. But it's again, I. You know, I would just be completely shocked if the Packers decided after 11 weeks that they've seen enough of LaFlore with as many wins as he's brought in a regular season. And I say regular season because we know what the postseason troubles are. I just can't imagine they're just going to rip the Bandaid off with five, six games left to go when they're still in the mix of things.
Whether you feel like they can make a deep run in the postseason or even get in, that's one thing. But while you guys are still in the mix, they're just going to keep everything status quo. If at the end of the season, the Plackers miss the game, miss the playoffs by one game, or they get eliminated in a wild card run. Then I can see Matt LaFlore being done. Because I do believe.
A lot more fans than you give credit for are over it. It's just you guys are too polite overall. I need you guys to stand up. Start cheering. Start like yelling things.
Stop sitting on your hands. You're not watching the masters. Start cheering and jeering like actual football fans. Come to the 2025 NFL where everybody's animated and excited for four quarters. Nope, the moment the Packer fans sit down in those bleachers, they're thinking What's the best time I can leave to beat traffic?
And the answer is always between the third and fourth quarter.
Now, I'm going to play a game with you. It's called Is Jordan Love Good?
So here's the scenario for you. Carlos. Uh Jackson Dart. And it's got another concussion. And he um talks it over with his family and he says I'm just, I can't do this.
I am retiring.
Now let me go get my Clorox. And right now I'm retiring. Um And the NFL feels so bad. That they say Giants You get to take your pick of quarterback. We're going to draw two names out of a hat.
And you get the quarterback. No questions asked. All right. With everything that comes with it, you get the quarterback. They pull out Uh Jordan Love?
And Michael Pennix Jr., who are you selecting? Oh, that's tough. See, I thought you were going to make it a little more obvious before you started getting to the top one. I was. I thought I did.
I guess not. No, Michael Pennix, but that might be the barometer. But that tells you everything that you need to know, and hopefully, it gets the answer you're looking for. That the fact that we are strongly considering between Jordan Love, you are not me. Like if that is Is the line where you want Jordan Jordan Love Comps?
That's a bad look. Um I'll take Penix because he's left-handed. What? Over Jordan Love. I would take panics.
Jordan lover Bo Nix. Oh, Bonex, that one's easy. Jordan lover Bryce Young. Yeah. Give me Bryce Young of last season, yes.
Jesus Christ. I'll tell you everybody right now, if you haven't listened to the Bart Winkler show. I think Jordan Love is overrated. I think Jordan Love was anointed to beat the name. Jordan Love or Tua.
He's a lefty Jordan love. He's a lefty. It's who was one hit away from retirement himself.
Now, give me Jordan Love. Jordan lover Aaron Rodgers. No, you gotta take Jordan love. You have to. Aaron Rodgers is is forty going on eighty three.
Jordan lover Daniel Jones. Daniel Jones now, I would take Daniel Jones now. I would reunite with Daniel Jones over Jordan Love. Absolutely. Daniel Jones is top five in rushing touchdowns this season.
Jordan Lover, Mac Jones. Mac Jones of this season, I'll take Mac Jones. Are you kidding me? He might be better than Brock Purdy. Help!
Give me Brock Purdy over Jordan Love. Uh Uh Jordan love or Brandy love? Oh, it's Brandy Love, obviously. Anyway, and that's a rack that doesn't quit. Um.
Storage Wars reference. We waited three years to see Jordan Love sitting behind Aaron Rodgers and thought it was going to be the exact same thing. No, we didn't. No, well, I mean, nationally, I don't know about Packers fans, nationally, that was the narrative. That's a dumb narrative.
But that was the narrative. I don't agree with it, but Roger sat behind Favre.
So when Rogers came out and started shooting out of the gun, we're like, okay, wow, this guy is legit. Everyone thought that Jordan Love would be the same thing. Sitting behind Rogers for three years, and he would just come out and burst onto the scene. And Jordan Love did look good, albeit not as good as Rogers when he started. But Jordan Love looked really good.
Every season since he's been a starter, it looks like. There's not much progression. It's like one step forward, a one and a half back. And a lot of that is to do with the relationship that Jordan Love and Matt LaFleur have. LaFleur does not know how to call a game for Jordan Love, he doesn't know how to use him.
Like Shane Bowen doesn't know how to use the defensive stars on the Giants where he's dropping back, you know. Brian Burns, who is the NFL sack leader into coverage on a third and 20 playing pre-vent defense, only rushing three guys. Matt LaFleur is. Got Jordan Love, who's elusive, who's got a good arm. And he's just calling, you know.
Stupid little You know, West Coast plays, you know, throw it to a wide receiver in the flat. He doesn't know how to use Jordan Love. And there doesn't seem to be a good rapport between the two. Jordan Love also is not assertive. Like Rogers was.
Like, you know, Jordan Love, I can see him constantly look to the sideline, like, hey, what do you want me to do now? Or should we still stick with the Yeah, that needs to change. I don't know why that's happening. He's not taking command of the game, which is why I don't feel like he's progressed enough. Like, It's like he's plateaued, but he's still so young.
So I he's not 27. I mean Still, you know, that's still, you know, good seven, eight years that you can have if he's good. I don't know if Lura was so mad that he got railroaded all the time by Rogers that he's like, he's got Jordan Love and. He's got Jordan Jordan he's got Jordan in love with Stockholm syndrome or something. That's a great pool.
Because Jordan Love does look like he's under captive. Like, you know, how I say hashtag fade the K? You got to have hashtag free Jordan love. Let him do what he does. I still don't.
Know what Jordan Love's ceiling could be. Because I feel like the way that LaFleur calls the game is just purposely holding Jordan Love back. Like they're afraid to let him. rip it. And I think that's the first time.
I think the No No, no, I I think LaFleur thinks love sucks. I personally don't think Jordan Love is all that, but again, I think a lot of it has to do with the way LaFleur utilizes him. Maybe, you know, maybe I'm absolutely blind and Love has all the talent in the world. I just don't see it the way that LaFleur calls a game. All right, so I enjoyed our little Jordan Love game so much that I'm going to cut it.
and play it on our actual show. Yeah. Oh, anything to get to the commercial break. That's what we all learned yesterday. The job of a radio host is literally.
I mean, it's true. That's why it said it on the show. Just land the plane in the commercials.
So should I play it tonight? When you're there, like a little showception, or should I do it tomorrow? When I don't have you near me. No, I would play it today. The reason for that is maybe we can just kind of react on it and turn one segment into two segments.
Yeah, let's do it in a matter of like 12 hours. Let's do Jordan Love's segments and then I'll um Yeah. Yeah, let's do that. Yeah, I like this. I got to figure out, I'm going to go through the entire list of like 32-starty quarterbacks.
Maybe I'll even throw a couple of high-end backups and just finally see where I would have Jordan Love slotted. I think without even looking, like thinking about all the quarterbacks right now. I honestly think I might have Jordan Love in the 20s. I think there might be 20 NFL quarterbacks I would have, that I would prefer over Jordan Love right now. All right, well, we got a segment for tonight.
Yeah. Nice. Look at all that production that I'm doing.
So we're teasing on the podcast for the show, and then the show is going to promote the podcast. That's right. It's all been doing this a long time ago. It's all a figure eight of self-promotion. Carlos Ortiz.
A pleasure to talk to you. Yeah, this was great. I feel like this is exactly what I do, except I don't get paid for it. And we're going to keep it that way. Yeah, this is literally the Bart Winkler Show podcast.
But not affiliated with Odyssey? Into the Winklerverse. I'm excited to be here. Again, Packers by 10. Um happy to come back if Will you ever want me to come back?
All right, I do. And now I'm going to Cut the video there. But This is on the audio. And I'm telling audio listeners that coming up on the show. will be somebody from What's now called the Wisconsin Sports Radio Network?
12:50 a.m. Mitch Thunder Nellis is going to join me. Who I actually just talked to earlier than you, but I'm putting you first and then Mitch on the podcast. Wow. Yeah.
Both videos separate. And also. I'm also reminding listeners of the pod, that you can score 25% off. Happy Place Hemp. With the gummies and the seltzers, just use the promo code BART.
Carlos? when you go to happyplacehem.com. and you can pick up they'll ship to you Usually free of charge. If you get like one pack of seltzers, there might be a little bit of a charge. But if you get a bunch, they wipe that away.
So, again, they'll ship it to you very, very quickly. Located in Muskego, you can check them out in person, ask them some questions, or funnel them through me. And I can be able to help you out again. I had one of their seltzers before I went for a walk around the neighborhood, talked to Amy Lawrence, and was high while being interviewed. Yeah.
At one point, I had to sit down on somebody's landscaping rocks to just like calm myself. Like, I might do a thing about the promo code before I got on. We would have had a more entertaining segment. Yeah. Promo code Bart, happyplaycent.com.
Um I will now take a insert commercial break here. And uh you will then hear thunder. And Carlos, it's always a pleasure. Thank you for your time. Oh, my pleasure.
See you in a couple of hours. Bye, buddy. And we welcome into the Winklerverse Mitch Thundernellis. For his Debut. Dude, I'm excited.
I watch your clips on TikTok all the time. Obviously, we've known each other for a while. I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to be in the Winkliverse.
Well, I I tweeted, uh, and that's very nice. I'll use that for a promo if if we did promos around here. Um, I did I tweeted, I I've I have a lot of burned bridges I'm trying to rebuild. Yeah. But you're not one, are you?
No, no, definitely not. Never, never. I'm a firm believer in like. All of us who love talking about sports for a living should literally just all get into a room once a month and just hang out because 98% of us like each other. And the other 2% like wouldn't show up anyway.
So, like, we should all be on the same team. Like, whoever you work for, or whatever, whatever your title company is, like, we should all be on the same team. Like, we should all be on each other's shows. We should all be collaborating, not compete, you know, let the salespeople compete or whatever they do. We should all just be collaborating and having a good time.
Somebody had asked me Why doesn't anyone? in like radio Get along from different stations. And I I was like, I don't know. She's just like. I don't know.
I don't know.
I didn't have a, I didn't have a good, like, I didn't have a good enough answer that I could explain it. I guess. No, there's no good reason for it. There isn't, and I think for the most part, people do. Like, I like you know, going to the Brewers playoff games, like I saw a bunch of guys from iHeart where I used to work, and I was like, you know, and again, like nine out of the ten of them, I get a big hug from, and the other one I never was friends with anyway.
Um, and then you know, I'm with Odyssey now, but like I was with Good Karma for 10 years, and when I see all those people, like it's all cordial and friendly. And you know, again, there might be one or two people that I didn't get along with, but I probably didn't really get along with them when I worked there anyway, and so I don't really want to get along with them. But for the most part, I think we get along, and it's like it's dumb that people have that perception or that the industry tries to pit us against each other. Like, I get that ratings matters and revenue matters and all that sort of stuff. But at the end of the day, we just love sports.
We're not in politics for a reason. If we wanted to go be Dan O'Donnell, we could go get rich and sell our souls. Right, but we don't want to do that. We want to actually talk about sports. And I love Dan.
Like, Dan's a friend of mine. I just saw Dan at a soccer game. Yeah. And Dan used to be a sports guy. Like, Dan, growing up on TMJ, was doing sports with Armin.
And like, he would fill in on the Mitch Nellis show when I first started there at iHeart. And now it's like, now he's big time. And like, that's good. Like, that's great. But, like, I don't want to talk about politics because I don't want half the people to hate me.
Not that I need to be loved, but I like being liked. I don't know if this is out of pocket or not, but when I talked to Dan at a game, And I think, I'm pretty sure we like hugged goodbye. I like that. That's what I should say. Was it like bro hug?
Was it handshake into the hug? Or was it full full? Front, it was more of a familiar, like a family, family type, like, yeah, there's a brother. I think I know, no, that's great. Just sort of happened.
Um, that's Mitchnellis, Thunder. Of course, he's on not just 12:50 a.m. The fan, 105.7 FM the fan, the Wisconsin Sports Radio Network. Yes, yep, Green Bay, Wausau, and Duluth, Superior now. Yeah, I'm big in Duluth.
They love me, man. Oh, yeah, yeah. I could tell just looking at you. Come on. You're doing the show with Tommy and Mason.
That seems to have been a good little. Good little trio for you boys. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. I mean, Tommy is, you know, our rising young talent. He's 25, about to be 26.
And he's just like, he's that guy who works 27 hours a day. Like, he'll say yes to everything. Probably we have to teach him to say no a little bit because we all get burned out at some point at that age. But he's he's just like crushing it, you know, true, cut ahead. And just like loves everything Wisconsin sports.
And Mason's just like one of the good guys, like, just a nice guy. You know, five kids at home, you know, driving his kids around in their whatever cruiser vehicle they have, and misses being in Green Bay, misses his life there, but is ready for the next chapter. And this is part of it for now. I think we think that he should go work for the NCA at some point and clean it up. He's very into like the business of sports and the craziness of everything going on with the NCA.
And he's super smart, so he'd be really good at it. But for now, we'll take him on the radio because he's a lot of fun to work with. I think that would be for me, um Like, we're talking, and it's hitting the fan with the Packers right now. I know they're five, three, and one, but things are not. Pretty.
I would think You know, I've done shows with Leroy and Gary, and these are former Packers. Yep. But Mason still and even Kuhn who's at the station now. I feel uh and Kuhn does the broadcast for the games. They're still like relatively fresh and like in it.
You know, I would feel like. Because all I want to do is crap on the floor. I don't like this guy. Right. And I would, I don't know.
Is that like something you navigate or you just let it fly? You know, I think it was a lot harder for Mason last year. We started the show last October, so we've been on for about 13 months now. I think it was really tough for him the first couple months. Like he's it was still a we.
Um, it's not quite as much of a we, it's still a we, but definitely not as strong as it was. Like, he he'll start a show, like he started yesterday, and it was like you could tell he didn't want to take them to task. But by the second segment, man, he was crapping on everybody just like all of us were. Like he was in on it. Um, and he's he's just gonna be honest.
Like, he's just you don't hold back, you don't feel like you have to hold back or anything. Oh, I don't hold back at all. No, I, and I'll, and I'll, and listen, if I go too far and I go to a place he's not comfortable with, like. Like he'll tell me. Um, and he'll tell me on the air, and he'll be like, Mitch, you can say that, but I'm not going to say that.
And I'm like, that's fine. Like, I'm cool with that. Uh but I just like Listen, I'm gonna be me. And I don't know. I don't know if I agree with you about LaFleur.
Like, I don't know if I like like, I don't know if I like LaFleur or Love. Like I might not like either of them. Like I think they're both to blame. And I'm just like, man, I don't know who to crap on first. I feel like I know more about playing than coaching.
So like when I see love not hidden not. Throw to an open receiver. I know I can crap on him as opposed to, I don't know how to build a whole scheme of an offense. I've never called plays before. If it was baseball or basketball, I know those.
I don't know football at all.
So I just, I just yell at the air.
Well, let me talk about love first. Let's talk about love first.
Okay, okay. Because. I did not like the pick. at all when they made it.
Okay, okay. I understand, you know, why. Yeah. And I do think they moved on at the right time. I had gotten very fatigued.
With Rogers. Um you know, his last season and then whatever performance that was against the Lions when they had a playoff spot on the line at home. I thought it was just awful.
So I was ready to move on. I, of course, would have wanted a weapon or something to help try to win now. And what I had said was for this draft pick to work, The Packers need to win another Super Bowl with Rodgers to prove that they were right to move on or at least get his replacement. And then Love needs to win one.
So I've been hard on Love. And recently, like. I've seen enough games of his. Where they're he's good. I'm okay to say he's good.
Yes, I will agree with that. He is good. Yeah, but now where? In the rankings, is that and I think That matters for a lot of people. He is good, and I think there were some games.
Especially that eight-game stretch a couple of years ago. It was amazing. It was amazing. And so I feel like. Packer fans were Trepidacious about Love.
And then we saw some really good stuff. And then instead of being like, All right. We have another quarterback. It worked. Right.
We win, oh my god, could we possibly have three straight Hall of Famers.
So I do think there was a lot that like for Jordan Love to constantly be Yeah, he's constantly measured to Rogers. But then he's also constantly measured because of The contract that he has. Which It's like that's just what happens when you have a quarterback. That's what you pay them.
So I feel like Jordan love Gets inaccurately compared to things that like he's judged in ways he shouldn't be judged. But then again, the game he had on Monday. was very bad. Even though Jalen Hurts was only maybe one or two throws better, honestly, in that game. Right, right.
Love just like love. The deep throw to Watson, where he could have led him to the sideline. When somebody's calling a playout, I mean, that's that's awful. That's awful. He's got to call timeout.
And so I'll end on this where. I complained a lot that Rogers checked out of LaFleur's plays. Yeah. Maybe I shouldn't have. Maybe I would like Jordan Love to take some more autonomy.
But I don't feel like LaFleur Is letting him, but is he not letting him because LaFleur wants the control, or is Jordan Love just unable? To do that. And I don't know. where that lies with Jordan Love, and I think that is a legitimate complaint. And I don't know if any of us know.
I think that's absolutely the prescient question of the moment for the Green Bay Packers. One thing I want to go back on for you is: you know, Brett Favre comes to Green Bay. And Sterling Sharp is there. And I know they're not Hall of Famers, but Robert Brooks and Antonio Freeman are there. Then we go to Jordy Nelson and Greg Jennings and Javon Walker and and Devontae Adams, of course.
Whether it was Favre Rodgers, they were playing with Pro Bowl wide receivers. Did they make them all Pro Bowl wide receivers? Yeah, maybe they did. Maybe Robert Brooks wasn't quite Pro Bowl, but he became Pro Bowl because of Favour, or Rogers made some, you know, however, that ended up working. Right.
Jordan Love isn't working with any of those guys. No. And I think that's another thing that we need to remember is that as good as we think Dobbs or Reed or Wicks or One Day Golden might be, and as good as we really think Tucker Kraft will be, and it's and the injury obviously derailed a little bit of his coming out party this year. It's Jordan Love does not have the receiving core that either Favre or Rogers ever had. They always have better receivers.
So, when you say two years ago, we had that eight games, you know, eight, nine games, where Jordan Love was like the best quarterback on earth. It sure would have been nice if the Packers had gotten a number one instead of saying, oh, we got these three young guys and we think together they're really good.
Well, they're not that good, they're okay. Like, and and now, and now we have a defensive line that last year was really good, and this year decided to be horrible. The move of Elton Jenkins to center was a terrible decision. The Aaron Banks signing has been a huge failure to this point, and all those things let down a quarterback who is good but not great. If he had the same receiving core as Aaron Rodgers, if he had last year's offensive line, Jordan Love would be much better this year than he's been, and Matt LaFleur's play calling would probably be much better than it's been because the team would be better, maybe the offense.
including the coaching staff. just isn't that good. Maybe they're just good and that's all they are. The Lafleur aspect of it. I am less ambiguous.
Yeah, I know. I've seen your stuff. You are not on the LaFleur train. You are not a 37-year-old female who just forgives all his sins because he's hot. I I've said on the show, the national show, I think he would have been fired if he was ugly.
He might, you know, you come here, or if he dressed like a slob, or if he looked like this. You look like me. Yeah, I'm dude. I'm right there with you. I ain't losing to the Panthers at home and keeping my job.
No, but you're not losing to the Panthers at home. No, you're right. Because I played it. I'm giving you that credit part. You are not losing that game.
Um but I I feel like You know, with LeFleur, one thought that I've always had on him Is He needs to fail at something. before he knows how to succeed at it.
So there's there's always whenever he was in a new situation. Yeah, whenever he was in a new situation. And this goes back year one, year two, year three, year whatever. When he faced something for the first time, he didn't know what to do, and he usually did the wrong thing. And I've always also said, That if he could freeze time.
and go up to his office. Figure out what to do on this third down or this fourth down and come back down. Then I think he might Come up with the right play. I think he. I think he has I think he knows football.
I don't think he's an idiot. I think that, I think that he, I mean, he obviously got to this position. Um Based on something, but I don't. He knows ball to an extent. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But now that he is. Here with Jordan Love. And again, maybe the love aspect of it is bigger than I think. But when he's calling these Plays where it's run, run. Set up Jordan Lovin at third down.
I said the other day. Matt LaFleur Needs Jordan. He's setting himself up. Where Jordan Love needs to be good for Matt LaFleur's play calling to work, but Matt LaFleur's play calling doesn't work. And so, Jordan Love's not good.
Like, he's not setting Jordan Love up to succeed. And so, is that Jordan Love? Or is that LaFleur? But then it's just, it's every little other thing. You know what I and I hate to do this.
You know, I didn't have a beer with him this summer. I hate to do this. I don't like the demeanor. I don't like the emotion. I don't like the approach.
I don't like the lack of confidence. It's more than just the coaching. I mean, and maybe this is, you know, you can Mason Crosby me and say, you don't agree with it, but I don't think I like him as a person. Ooh, okay. Interesting.
I don't know, like. Having watched him, I don't know if this guy was my boss, I would leave my employment, right? Right. Um I think I think he's just confused. Like, I think he hears from too many sides.
I don't know if he's listening to Goody and to policy and to what Jordan Love wants, and echoes. I think there's still echoes of Aaron Rodgers in his head. And there might be some backwards, but there also might be, he might be thinking of. I could be a lame duck coach. Like, we're now just saying, oh, the hots, the seat is hot.
But he came into the season knowing he didn't get an extension. knowing there's pressure on him. And so, if he's looking that way and he's playing not to lose against Dallas, or if he's playing like, I don't want to make a big mistake, or I don't want to set Jordan Love up to make a big mistake, maybe he's. He's, you know, that that happens sometimes where He's not playing to win. He's playing not to lose.
And When that happens, you're going to lose more than you're going to win. Yeah. Oh, they're five three in one. I get it. Yes, but but it's not, it doesn't, it's not a 5-3 and 1 that feels good.
It's not a 5-3-1 that makes any logical sense based on giving up 13 points a game in their losses and scoring 20 and scoring 10 and scoring 28 points in their wins. I mean, the other thing I worry about with him is his first three years. He had a 795 winning percentage. He won 80% of his games with Aaron Rodgers. Then they go 8-9 and have that miserable season in 2022.
Since those first three seasons, he's 33, 26, and one, a 558 winning percentage, which is pretty pedestrian. Like, if you're supposed to be the Green Bay Packers and we're not, you know, we're not the. Um, what insert bad team or you know, obviously, the Browns, but we're not the Bears, we're not a bad team. You can't say the Browns anymore. I know, 558 doesn't get you into the playoffs.
So he's, and I know he's made the playoffs in those three years almost by default, or two of the three. And I'm just like. Like, I don't know. Again, I think he's a good coach. I don't think he's a bad coach.
I do have one theory to throw by you, though. Because I know a lot of people are ripping on him for like when he took the card and he went to the Gatorade rack and he's like going scratching off lottery tickets.
So, what I think he's doing is, I think he doesn't trust Jordan Love. And I think he was crossing off all the plays that he knew he couldn't call because he didn't trust Jordan Love to make the right decision on those plays.
So he was just going to call the plays that he trusted Jordan Love because he doesn't think Jordan Love is either smart or that Jordan Love can read the field. And I like and then I don't know if Jordan Love trusts Matt LaFleur to make the right play call. Like I think that we this might devolve. I don't think LaFleur is going to lose the locker room like people are talking about, but I think he and Love are in a really dangerous place right now. What if they lose to the Giants?
I mean, listen, it became more realistic with Jameis Winston being announced the starter, right? Like, I'd take him over Russell Wilson any day. Uh, if they lose to the giants, it just gets louder. You gotta fire them, you gotta fire them. I think so, but we're in Wisconsin, we're in Midwest nice.
Like, they McCarthy's the only coach in the history of the franchise that's been fired mid-season, and I don't know that they're gonna look, I don't know that policy who I don't who I think instead of McCarthy, I think policy is more likely to make a change. I think he's still going to look at it like, you know what, we're not winning anything this year anyway. Why don't we just spend the rest of the season figuring this out? I'm going to figure it out. And then at the end of the year, I'm going to let LaFleur go anyway.
So why make a mess in the middle of the season? Because we're not winning anything this year anyway. We're a year away. Can I tell you something about Midwest Nice? You may.
I'm glad that we're nice. And I think I am a nice, I'm a kind-hearted person. I think so. I think we both lead with kindness, yes. Yeah.
Um, now, sure, as we talked earlier, there's the nonsense that happens, but I'm a kind-hearted person. Um I feel like The Midwest nice stuff. We need to dial it back a little. I don't like every time visiting fans come in here, they write like op-eds about how great of an expert. This isn't Disney World.
We're not trying to get a good review score. We're not trying to get you to come back. You could be nice. Be nice. Don't be a jerk.
I go to road games every year. I go to, I don't want to be like. Terrorized and bullied and yelled at and sworn at, but I also don't need to feel welcomed. Right. I'm coming in.
I'm invading your stadium. And I'm going to leave and write an op-ed about how great it was. Do a blog about how I'm going to write a. I mean, this is, and then, and then we see that, and we're like, Oh, that makes me feel the blessing of my heart. No, no, no.
Yeah. We're too nice. Stand up. Stand up if there's somebody behind you. They have to stand up then.
That's right. It's okay to stand up. We're like, we need to. I agree with that. Jeez, we just No, I agree with Burden, but not.
I say this all the time, Thunder. I say, we are some of the best fans in our house. We are some of the best fans on the radio, some of the best fans in the car, some of the best fans at the restaurant. You got us into a stadium, we're garbage.
Well, we're too because we're too nice. I agree with that. We were talking about that. I was talking about that with Trevor Thomas on Inside Wisconsin Sports about like they had, you know, a podcaster walking around Lambo and talking to Philly fans. Yeah.
And they're like, and they're like, oh, yeah, we never would have thought this. Like, blank the Packers, fly Eagles, or whatever. And it's like, and I said, I said it on the radio. I said, We we need to have a little bit of more of a prickiness. Like, we don't need, again, we don't need to be throwing batteries at Santa Claus.
Like, we don't have to be Philly. But we gotta have a little bit more of an edge. There needs to be a little bit, and it comes out when Chicago comes up. Right with Chicago, there's that rivalry.
So whether it's the Cubs or the Bears, especially. There is that with Chicago fans because like they touch that nerve. It's okay to have the edge when Philly comes to town or when Houston comes to town or when LA comes to town or whoever comes to town. It's okay to have an edge with them. We don't have to be best friends with them.
We can be best friends with them. Even within our own teams, Thunderman, it's always like. You rip on LaFleur, you rip on Jordan Love, you're even just trying to be constructive criticizing these people. And there's enough people that are turned off because you're saying something negative about their favorite team. They think you're not a fan.
Right. And it's actually the exact opposite, right? It means you are a fan. It means you care. It means you are a fanatic.
And it's okay to call it like you see it. And if I see, if I don't like something Jordan Love's doing, and you don't like something that Matt LaFleur is doing, we can argue about whether it's who's to blame or whatever. But we both know we want the Packers to win at the end of the day. Like, we're not arguing this because we want the Packers to lose. Even the Badgers right now, like, maybe there are people there who want fickle out and who want the Badgers to lose to get fickle out.
But at the end of the day, they'd rather the Badgers be successful. That's just the path they see to the Badgers being successful. And we're not there with the Packers yet. But, and I hope we don't get there. I hope we figure this out and it all gets settled.
But I'm there. Yeah, so you're there? And that's okay. That's it. Listen, if you're not.
Well, what if you wanted the floor fired? Who would you hire? Not my job. Not my job. I hate that.
Man, I said the other day that Bo Melton has a lot to answer for. Bull Melton dropped that fourth down pass, and then on special teams, he went into the end zone. And as a gunner, you know not to go into the end zone if you're trying to save that punt. And down it at the one or two yard line.
So I texted Sparky that, and Sparky, like, well, Sparky's like, well, who would you have replace him? I'm like, Sparky, that's not my job. I don't care. I don't give a crap. Like, that's why Goody gets paid six or seven figures, and I get paid 12 bucks.
Like, that's, cause that's not my job. I just know I don't like what I see. Yeah, the job of the fan, which is short for fanatic, people don't know. Uh is to Point out the problems. Yes.
So that the team can fix it. That's our job. We're not getting paid. No, we're paying you. But again, knowing at the end of the day, we want our team to win.
We're not pointing out things we don't like because we want them to lose or we're booing against them. If we boo the Packers, it's because we don't like the effort or the play call because we want them to win. We don't want them to lose. Mitch Thundernellis. Would you like to come back on sometime?
Oh my gosh, are you kidding me? Into the Winkliverse? I would be honored, I would be privileged, I would be, it would be all, it would, it would make, it would warm my soul. We'll come on and talk Bucks once we want Doc Rivers fired in a couple of months. I mean, I never wanted Doc Rivers here.
I know they're doing better this year, but and you know me, I'm like born and raised in Boston, so I love that Doc won a championship 17 years ago. Um, but Doc's not my guy. Mitch, appreciate your time. Thanks for stopping into. The Winkler Verse.
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