DANGER: China and Iran unite in $400 Billion Dollar Deal

Today on Sekulow, a dangerous four hundred billion dollar deal between China and the Islamic Republic of Iran. We'll talk about that and more today on Sekulow. And now your host, Jordan Sekulow. Welcome to Sekulow. We are taking your phone calls 1-800-684-3110.

That's 1-800-684-3110. So over the weekend it was announced by China and Iran, their two foreign ministers were together in Tehran, a four hundred billion dollar deal. That's over twenty-five years aimed at Iran's infrastructure, but I think the bigger point to make here is that China is unilaterally making this deal. They were part of the initial countries, the P5 plus one that put together that nuclear deal with Iran. They're agreeing with Iran that there should be no negotiations with the United States or the Biden administration until all sanctions on Iran are lifted. It's also a play by China to see if secondary sanctions, so to say that they're going to be doing this oil business with Iran, which would kick in sanctions against you, will those even be enforced against China? And how would they be enforced unilaterally by the United States or even globally by the United Nations?

Is there the stomach to do that? So this is another major move by China to establish itself on the world stage, even going so far as to say that they would host negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians. Look, this is the Chinese government, again the Chinese Communist Party to be clear, making a play for dominance now in the Middle East. Now $400 billion is a lot of money, but it's not enough, and we're going to talk about the economics of this to undo the disaster economy that Iran is, but they also agreed to buy their oil.

That changes the equation significantly. So we're going to get into this in great length because this shows you another play by China. It's an undercutting of U.S. interests, trying to put the United States on the sideline, and then the question is the Biden administration's reaction to this. I mean, why in the world would the Chinese go back into, Wes, let me ask you this, Wes Smith's here, why would the Chinese go back into the joint, the JCPOA? Yeah, exactly.

They're the great disruptor, you know, and their intentions, you know, are always doubted as well. What this does, Jay, is it provides funds to Iran so they can keep exporting terrorism and supporting their proxies. Now these funds are supposed to be going towards technology, infrastructure, and what have you, but we all know that Iran has a bad past record of how they use funds that were designated for something else.

And, of course, funds are fungible. They can use them whatever they want to, but here's the two main things that concern me about it, Jay, and that is it undercuts the U.S.'s attempts to keep Iran isolated in order to get them to negotiate and to keep them from acquiring a nuclear weapon. It's an anti-U.S. policy. We'll get into the details of this coming up in the broadcast. I just want to give everybody a sense. Now, also, the George Floyd trial is proceeding right now. Now, the only thing that's gone on so far has been, they're in a break right now, Andy, is the opening statement. Andy's a former prosecutor and defense lawyer.

I prosecuted and defended as well. The opening statements are being kind of set the stage here. That's really what's happening there.

That's right. The purpose of our opening arguments is so the prosecution and the defense can say what they expect the evidence to show. It is not evidence in the case. It is simply their attempt to inform the jury and the court as to what they expect the evidence and testimony both from the stand from live witnesses and from documentary evidence is going to show. Sometimes it does show what the opening statements intend and sometimes it does not. It's not evidence.

The evidence comes when the witnesses are put, but we'll get into all that and the documents, obviously. Yeah, exactly. So, again, if you want to talk to us on 800-684-3110, that's 800-684-3110. Rick Rinnell will be joining us in the next segment to talk about this deal between Iran and China, what it means for the U.S., what it means for the Biden administration, and, of course, the Middle East. A new play by China to assert its power on the global stage.

Again, to me, it backs up what we heard from President Biden in his first press conference was that China expressed to him very clearly that they were making a play to become the world's superpower. So we'll talk about all of that. 1-800-684-3110, our matching challenge coming to an end at the end of the month of March. We still have time to donate online and double your impact, your donation at ACLJ.org. That's ACLJ.org.

We'll be right back. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. Whether it's defending religious freedom, protecting those who are persecuted for their faith, uncovering corruption in the Washington bureaucracy, and fighting to protect life in the courts and in Congress, the ACLJ would not be able to do any of this without your support.

For that, we are grateful. Now there's an opportunity for you to help in a unique way. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's Matching Challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20.

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Take part in our Matching Challenge today. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family. Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

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We are taking your phone calls 1-800-684-3110. This developed over the weekend, so after we were on the air Friday. This is a new announcement by China and Iran, a deal that China has brokered unilaterally with Iran. It's $400 billion over 25 years aimed at infrastructure, but it's also a deal to buy Iranian oil. Rick Rinnells joining us now, our Senior Advisor for Foreign Policy and National Security.

Hey Rick, just right off the bat, it's another move. It's one after another after another. We also saw a lot of military aircraft this weekend heading towards Taiwan by China.

The greatest display yet of their air power there. So all around the world making these deals right in the face of the United States. Look, it's so outrageous because we've got the entire Democratic Party screaming about Russia. And make no mistake, Russia is a problem, but China is a crisis.

It's a growing crisis. And so while all of these politicians in DC keep saying, look over there, look at Russia, look at that. China loves it. And that's the Beijing line is to say, look at Russia. We have to be very clear about what this deal between China and Iran means. It means that China is going to be funding terrorism. This regime in Iran is a regime that has been caught funding terrorism even after they signed the JCPOA.

We caught them in Europe. The Europeans need to understand that this is a regime that has been funding terrorism on their soil. So let's be very clear about this engagement idea is what China wants because they just want to sell products.

They don't care if they're selling to terrorists. It also seems to me, Rick, I see the foreign minister of China in these interviews, a lot more slick foreign policy-wise, a lot more confident foreign policy-wise. I mean the statements they're making in agreement with Iran like the U.S. needs to give up all of its sanctions unilaterally. And so now Iran has a partner in this move to say, yeah, the U.S., if you're going to even sit down at the table with them, they've got to give up all their sanctions. And in part two of this, it seems like China is supplanting Russia in the Middle East. This is a much bigger superpower with a lot more money to throw around. And he's not just going to Iran, but he's going to go through the Gulf states as well.

I'm sure to try and undermine what was done in the Abraham Accords. Yeah, it's clear that China is becoming more brazen. It's almost like they think that the United States is weakened right now and that they can stand up and say really outrageous statements, cut outrageous deals and get away with it.

And I think the reality is, is that they can. We have a team that wants to engage with China and we have to be clear about this. Engagement is a good thing. And sometimes engagement works, but engagement is a tactic.

It's not the goal. And I'm concerned that for Joe Biden, engagement is the goal. Having a meeting is the goal. They keep celebrating the idea that we're going to sit down and talk.

That doesn't produce anything. That's a tactic to get us somewhere. But the big meat of the discussion is what are you going to do when you sit at the table and how are you going to get the Chinese to back down and not be funding terrorism with this Iranian regime?

Which is really, Rick, of course, what they're doing. It's $400 million, so they're going to fund that to China. The money, as we said, is fungible so they can then move it to other sources. I cannot believe that the Chinese government would have done this if you and the previous administration were still in power because the risk factor with the U.S. would be so great. But here, like you said, the desire to engage is so paramount to the Biden administration that I'm sure the Chinese made the calculus and said they're not going to do anything.

They're not going to say, hey, gee, you're giving them $400 billion. That might impact the sanctions we've had on them. Well, I can tell you what the Chinese do is they go to the Europeans and they say, hey, let's just talk.

We should all sit down and talk and let's have consensus. And the Europeans love that. By the way, Germany, the largest economy in all of Europe, is desperate to start trading with Iran. So you've got a sympathetic ear in Chancellor Merkel to engage and start selling products to Iran. But let's be clear. Let's play the European game.

Let's play the Western alliance game. This Iranian regime pushes gay people off buildings. They systematically are human rights abusers. They deny their own people to be on social media talking freely and criticizing their government. But they're on Twitter, they're on Instagram, they're on social media as VIP leaders, as the elites. But they deny their people basic human rights on a daily basis.

Yeah, and I'll add to that list, and you know this because you helped us work on the resolution in this. They have jailed American or dual citizens, Iranian-American citizens, or American citizens that have an Iranian origin that were in Iran starting churches and put them in jail with impunity. And to get them out under your administration was a lot easier than, let me just say, the predecessor to your administration, which was near and pay. We did get them out, but it took four years.

But you're right, systematic human rights abuser, but yet it fascinates me. I'm going to ask Wes Smith this from a military standpoint. The military alliance here also makes me a bit nervous.

I want Rick's comment on that too. Because where we've been in other parts of the world, especially in Africa, Chinese influence is huge. It is huge. And out of this 18-page draft of this agreement that was released to the media, or leaked to the media, some of the most disconcerting things about it from a military standpoint is that a part of this agreement with Iran and China states that starting now they will begin military cooperation with each other.

That includes, Jay, joint training, research, weapons development, and also intelligence sharing. It could not be. Anything good coming out of that?

I mean, I can't imagine. And it's also, Rick, there's a secondary part of this, which is secondary sanctions. Also, Rick, is the idea that you're not supposed to be able to purchase this Iranian oil or train the Iranian oil, but is anyone going to step up and enforce those sanctions on China? Good point.

And the answer is no. No one's going to step up because they're trying to get us to even drop the original sanctions. There's a piece of good news here, though, I want to highlight, in that now that China has come out completely in line with the Iranian regime, there are a whole bunch of Arab allies of the United States who see this as a terrible thing. And I think it's going to cause Arab allies to question whether or not they should be doing any business with China.

China has come out swinging now for Iran, and that's going to mean a whole bunch of Sunnis who are not happy. Right. You know, it's interesting. We got an interesting call on that very point. Yeah, Paul calling from Missouri, line one. Hey, Paul.

Hello, guys. I was just curious, with all the genocide taking place in China against Muslims, how does Iran justify even working with China? I don't get it. They're playing chess.

I mean, they're looking, Rick, a lot of moves down the board here. Let's be very clear. The Iranian people, we have to make clear, are amazing people. They have a culture that's highly educated. They have a welcoming culture, and this Iranian regime has ruined that reputation for, I think, a very long time.

And the Iranian people want to get rid of this Iranian regime because they want to get their reputation back. You know, we only have – well, go ahead, Jordan. Do you have a follow-up?

Go ahead. One last question on this because I think it's important. You know, we've talked about the influence of China here domestically, Rick. And these Confucius centers that are now becoming – Tennessee, by the way, they've cut the funding. They're now allowing funding to the state universities.

The governor here in Tennessee took some action. But, you know, we've got a federal lawsuit that you're aware of that we filed against your old agency, the United States Office of the Director of National Intelligence, U.S. Department of State, and the National Security Agency. We're adding the FBI to this.

It goes back to the Eric Swalwell matter. But people need to understand that they have – the Chinese government, through their – basically their espionage, has reached into the highest level of government, including putting people in congressional offices when that person is on the Intelligence Committee and still is. Look, I hope people understand that they need to support ACLJ and these lawsuits because this is how we're going to bring about truth and we're going to push back. But it's very clear that over the last couple of years, China has decided that spying and getting access to our local, state, federal politicians is their strategy. They have been successful at it. They have infiltrated our educational system and our political system. We've had to hold defensive briefings with members of Congress, governors, and other elected officials to tell them what they're trapped in many times.

Sometimes they have no idea what was going on and other times they try to justify their behavior. So it's a scandal, it's a crisis, and we certainly need to call it out and be transparent about the money in our schools coming straight from China. We're going to be getting into that in great length. We're going to continue to do that.

In fact, I'm thinking about issuing state FOIAs from various universities and find out what kind of funds are being utilized. There's ways to do that. And people are not – this is one of the issues going on, is that that was being done by the Trump administration.

Now it's not. It was all a policy. That's why Tennessee's governor had to take action. We're going to help that. Rick, we appreciate it as always. And let me encourage everyone to do what Rick just said, and that is support the work of the ACLJ. We are amending our lawsuit – we're going to talk about that in the next segment of the broadcast. We're amending our lawsuit probably tomorrow or Wednesday – not probably, will be amended this week – to add the FBI, because they're not complying either. That's the only way you get the truth. Support the work of the ACLJ and our matching challenge campaign.

Last three days for the month of March. ACLJ.org. That's ACLJ.org. Any amount you donate, of course, is tax-deductible, but it also is matched. ACLJ.org.

Back with more in a moment. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, playing parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life. Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. Whether it's defending religious freedom, protecting those who are persecuted for their faith, uncovering corruption in the Washington bureaucracy, and fighting to protect life in the courts and in Congress, the ACLJ would not be able to do any of this without your support.

For that, we are grateful. Now there's an opportunity for you to help in a unique way. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's Matching Challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20.

A $50 gift becomes $100. This is a critical time for the ACLJ. The work we do simply would not occur without your generous support. Take part in our Matching Challenge today. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family. Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. Welcome back to Sekulow.

We are taking your phone calls at 1-800-684-3110. That's 1-800-684-3110, updating you on this new deal between Iran and China. It's a long-term deal, so forward thinking 25 years. And I think what you are starting to see on the world stage is the sophistication of the Chinese foreign policy effort, what they're putting in place to become as their goal. The world leader, kind of the new superpower to supplant the United States, which also encourages a form of government which is, again, antithetical to everything we believe in in the United States of America. The idea of representative democracy or freedom of speech, the ability to make decisions for yourself, it is a totally different world view.

It is a world view that puts the country before individual liberties and individual freedoms, and in China's case it's a political party, in Iran's case it's an ayatollah. But you see how these bad actors will easily work together with each other and put all the things that you would think would make them different or supplant, and I think it also just shows the weakness of Russia. Russia is trying to put on these displays in the Arctic, they've got their submarines, but at the end of the day they're being supplanted in the Middle East because they don't have the cash.

They don't have the cash, so the Russians don't have the financial resources to pull off what the Chinese do. Now, having said that, let me tell you a couple of things. We're going to get into exactly what's going on here, and also, as we've been reporting, there has been significant Chinese influence even in the United States, even in the United States government, with Congress.

And we've talked about that. Well, we've taken it a step further than talk and we filed a federal lawsuit. And that is because of the situation where an agent from the Chinese government, Chinese Communist Party, was very close to Eric Swalwell, Congressman, member of the Intelligence Committee. There were other representatives, I mean, other high-ranking members of the Senate had infiltration in their offices too. But we filed a lawsuit against three government agencies, and now we're about, and that includes the U.S. National Security Agency, ODNI, which is Rick Grinnell's old office, the Office of Director of National Intelligence, and the State Department. And Andy, we're about to add the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

That's right. We want to get to the bottom of what went on with this relationship between Fang Fang, who was a Communist Chinese operative, there's no doubt about that. And the lengthy relationship that she had with Congressman Swalwell and any records of communications with or files regarding the documents in the custody of the NSA, National Security Agency, with a very large array of people in the United States Army, the directors of intelligence, and other agencies of the United States, with respect to this Fang Fang and exactly what she knew and what she was doing with Swalwell.

She was raising money for him. She knew that we knew that he was placing students in his office as interns in the office, and we want to know about it, and we're not going to take no for an answer. No, we're not. And they have started with their usual answer, which our usual answer is no. And what do we do?

Our response to no is file a lawsuit. Now, Wes, Colonel Smith, you pointed out during the break there was an interesting little trip or meeting between leadership within China and Iran. Right. Yeah, one of the things that the Trump administration was successful in doing is helping the Gulf states and the Arab nations to understand that we are their ally and their protector, and have been for a couple of decades, and that their number one adversary is not Israel, but Iran. Now that this agreement between China and Iran is going on, the next schedule for the Chinese foreign minister this week for his trips is to go to the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, those countries, because they, I'm sure, are very, very unhappy with this agreement, because it is really truly, this word is overused, but it is an existential threat. China and Iran are now together against these nations.

The implications, the ramifications of this just can't be overstated. The thing I think about too, Jay, China is our number one national security threat, partly because of their military buildup, the theft of intellectual property, economics, what have you. But now, Iran was number two. Now, our number one threat, China and Iran, have joined together to take a stand not only against America, but against American influence throughout the Middle East.

It's very interesting you said that. Leanne on Facebook just said, feels like the global power structure is being reset, and Kelly on Facebook said, our government looks so weak on the world stage, and that is, you're both right. And it is a reset, and that reset is dangerous, but here's what we're going to have to do. This is where it's going to get complicated. Jordan, we got on top of these Confucius centers early, because Mike Pompeo, our Senior Counsel for Global Affairs, was on and was very familiar with what was going on here in various states. Now, governors are taking action. We need to find out what these states in our country and these universities and find out the tie-in between them and these Confucius centers or whatever they might be calling them, because they'll now call them something else.

That is going to be something worth finding out. Yeah, exactly, because I think what you're going to see is that the Trump administration was putting in place a plan that was going to make this have to be disclosed, and the Biden administration immediately reversed that policy of disclosure. So you're going to have states like Tennessee who can come in and say that their state universities can no longer accept this funding. And by the way, that won't include the private universities. They're taking the money too, but the states will do what they can to kick these off campus in some states, and that's happening in other states as well and moving forward with this move.

But what is going on? How many professors are being bought off by the Chinese government or having their research funded by the Chinese government so that in a sense they have an incentive not to speak out or speak up. And so this is again, Chinese putting in place very similar strategies to how the United States operated around the world during the Cold War. And putting in place again, it's kind of like the media side, the funding the university side, and why don't you see more professors, why don't you see more experts speaking out against the Chinese? Why does it take politicians?

And it's because of the money, the money going right into their pocket. So one of the things, Andy, we have to look at is, you could deal with it on a federal level through FOIA, then various states have open records acts and find out what communications are going on between state universities and these Confucius centers, Chinese, it probably won't be the government itself, it's probably these centers. We're going to take a look at it. Look, we've talked about this, this open records practice of ours is going to grow exponentially because unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you're looking at it, every day we're coming up with a new one that needs to be looked at.

And so we're going to get our teams moving on that because that's a big issue. But that's how you do this. You've got to follow the money.

That's right. And there is limitless, it seems, money, monetary resources among the Chinese to perpetrate the institution of what they hope to be a new international order, no longer led by the United States, which is generally guided, we have, by principles of democracy, respect for human rights and adherence to the rule of law. That's not the way the Chinese are looking at it. And there are states, as you mentioned, each state has an open records law similar to the federal Freedom of Information Act, which we can use to determine exactly what these so-called cultural centers are at state universities, how they're funded, who's teaching at them, what research is being done, what products are being generated so that we can know on a state-by-state level exactly what's happening.

This is something that can supplement our federal FOIA practice. When we come back from the break, we're going to read you the headline from the New York Times. One of the headlines yesterday from the New York Times. They're picking up on this too. Even the mainstream media is picking up on this danger of autocracies aligning. And that's exactly what we're talking about.

So we've got a lot more to discuss. Share this with your friends. Jordan's going to let Niagara participate in our matching challenge.

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We'll be right back. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's matching challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20.

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I'm talking about freedom. We will fight for the right to live in freedom. Live from Washington, D.C., Jay Sekulow Live. And now, your host, Jordan Sekulow. Hi, welcome back to Sekulow. We are taking your phone calls to 1-800-684-3110.

That's 1-800-684-3110. It's interesting. Cordell on Facebook wrote the Obama and Biden administrations advanced terrorist funding by Iran and further attempted to isolate Israel when they bankrolled Iran with American cash. Now it seems China is picking up that mantle.

And you did. You had that gap of four years where Iran was cut off and heavily sanctioned by the United States to where it was basically very difficult for Iran to do any legitimate business on the world stage. And so economically they have been hurting. And when they are economically hurting, of course they don't have the money for their nuclear program, they don't have the money to fund their terrorism. They also don't have the – they were caught up in a civil war in Syria. They got heavily involved in that. Soleimani was taken out by the Trump administration, the head of the Revolutionary Guard Corps. So there were a lot of obstacles in Iran. They were continuing to be isolated on the world stage, to be looked at as a pariah by those in the region.

And no one was rushing to, again, reenter the deal. Now Iran has got this new partner with China, and China is looking to make it more difficult actually for the Biden administration to do what they would like to do, which is to get back with a deal with Iran. And how weak will the U.S. appear if it bows down to the Iranian and now Chinese demand that all sanctions must be lifted?

And that's part of what they have stated. China has actually gone shoulder to shoulder with Iran now, stated as a part of this announcement of the agreement that there should be no negotiations with the United States until all sanctions are totally lifted. You take this agreement and you combine it with President Biden's apparent weakening of Trump policies on the Middle East, it has large ramifications, combined with the fact that it is President Biden himself who has expressed this almost completely illogical desire to negotiate with Iran and reenter the Iran nuclear deal almost at any cost.

The ramifications are huge for this. This is one of the most troubling things that has come down the pike in the first 100 or so days of the Biden administration. And also on every news outlet in the country right now, a lot of them are covering the trial of George Floyd has gotten underway. Andy, opening statements are already complete.

We need to talk about to folks to understand you may have watched it. Opening statements are not evidence. The prosecution puts forward what they expect to prove. The defense puts forward what they expect to establish.

That's right. Opening statements apparently have concluded in the case. Witnesses called. And the first witness for the prosecution for the state has been called in the case, and that means that it's moving along fairly quickly. Usually these murder trials take some time, but these are moving fairly quickly, so the prosecution has got to put up its evidence at the conclusion of that. I'm sure the defense will make a motion to dismiss for failure to make a prima facie case out. The court will rule on that, and if it's denied, then the defense puts up its case, calling its witnesses. May call the defendant.

May not call, well, will not call the defendant in this case, but cannot call the defendant in this case. That's not permissible, but we'll call witnesses and we'll see what occurs. Yeah, obviously with George Floyd's death from this, the evidence will end up being what people saw. The defense will call experts to show what was going on. Look, these cases are not easy either way, and this one of course has got national attention, which it rightly deserves, and it's going to be big. We're going to get into that, at least to keep you posted on it. So Andy, because he is a former prosecutor and former defense attorney, and I prosecuted and defended cases as well, both sides, we'll be able to give you some analysis on that. We're not going to be covering it gavel to gavel.

That's not what we're doing on this broadcast, but we are going to keep you posted. Obviously, it's a major issue, but the opening statements are done, so it's interesting that it's gone that way. Back on the China-Iran issue, New York Times, an alliance of autocracies. China wants to lead a new world order subtitle. As President Biden predicts a struggle between democracies and their opponents, Beijing is eager to champion the other side. Yeah, I mean this is, again, the idea we talked about is governments that aren't really representative of their people, but are representative of an idea, of a party, and they put that before any kind of individual liberty.

It's the exact opposite of how we kind of think in the United States. We'll be right back. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. Whether it's defending religious freedom, protecting those who are persecuted for their faith, uncovering corruption in the Washington bureaucracy, and fighting to protect life in the courts and in Congress, the ACLJ would not be able to do any of this without your support.

For that, we are grateful. Now there's an opportunity for you to help in a unique way. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's Matching Challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20.

A $50 gift becomes $100. This is a critical time for the ACLJ. The work we do simply would not occur without your generous support.

Take part in our Matching Challenge today. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family. Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

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1-800-684-3110. Your comments on Facebook and Periscope. The idea here again, and I think you go to the New York Times, and this is a different kind of way of viewing the world. So you're a professor of Chinese studies in Seoul. So China's actually trying to build an argument like we're the more responsible power, we're not the spoilers or an axe of evil. So we're more stable than the United States because in the United States you have election to election and policies will change, but not with us because we're going to be consistent. Because you can trust that we're not going to change our policies because we have a form of dictatorship.

Reliable partners, what they're trying to become. So China's agreed to invest $400 billion in Iran over the next 25 years in exchange for oil to fuel its economy, which by the way is still growing. The deal will deepen China's influence without question both in Iran, but of course also in the Middle East region generally. That's why the United States' policy was trying to isolate. They didn't do this under the previous administration, the Chinese government. They're brazen enough to do it now because there's no consequence. President Biden, as you recall, offered to resume negotiations.

Remember he wanted to get right into that. The Chinese have now said, no, no, no. The Chinese with the Iranians are saying this, get rid of the sanctions, then maybe we'll come to the table. But we know they've been violating this agreement while other parties have been part of it. And Harry Hutchison is our director of policy at the ACLJ.

He's also a professor of law and economics. And Professor Hutchison, I look at the $400 billion, which over 25 years is not that much money. It doesn't get them out of the economic problem, but it starts a process.

Absolutely. So in some sense, you can look at this particular deal as a catalyst for future development long run. But to be sure that China-Iran deal, which is worth $400 billion over 25 years, will deepen China's influence in the Middle East, but it's highly doubtful that this deal will significantly improve Iran's struggling economy. Remember, Iran is trying to recover from crippling sanctions as a result of the United States decision during the Trump administration to withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal.

So first, let me suggest that this deal likely signifies what has already been going on. In other words, China has already been trading with Iran, buying its oil either on the black market or through other avenues. Second, accepting the deal at its face value would mean an increase in per capita GDP of only about $150 per capita in Iran. Third, the Iranian economy in 2020 was estimated at around $610 billion in terms of GDP.

And since 2018, when the US left the Iran nuclear deal, the Iranian economy has been cratering at a rate of 5 to 20% a year with a rise in inflation, a rise in unemployment, and a rise in unrest, which threatens the hegemony of the Iranian leaders. But also, we should not feel good about the fact, well, it's only $400 billion because this is the Chinese Communist Party, Andy, and this is part of a long play here, and they know exactly what they're doing to buy their influence, and they're not going to give the Iranians a billion dollars up front. They're not going to do that. This is how they're going to do it. I'm not going to say here's $400 billion rather up front.

Here it is. No, they'll give you $20 billion over the course of time, and then another $20 billion, but they can supplement it very easily. Oh, they've got the cash and the ability to do it, Jay.

I mean, there's no doubt about that. They have the financial ability to make themselves felt throughout the world and to realign the autocracies, which is surprisingly what the New York Times has said. China wants to lead a new world order, and they're doing a very good job of putting that plan into operation. President Biden notwithstanding saying that that's not going to happen on his watch, that we're the most powerful country in the world, the U.S., we're the wealthiest, and we're going to continue to grow and expand, but look what the Chinese are doing with the Iranians. I mean, this is contrary to what the President in his isolation, it seems to me, mental isolation, is trying to signify it's not going to happen. The Chinese are moving and strengthening day by day. Will Haines, our producer, pointed out this.

It's not so much the money. It's the 25-year commitment, Jordan, that the Chinese are playing here. Now, we've been to Beijing. We know that regime a little bit, just from legal issues and UN work and over the years.

They play long ball here. They've got a plan. When we started doing work in Africa, you said the Chinese were building villages and towns in Africa. They'll do the same thing in the Middle East if they can.

Yeah, exactly. They take over, put in their own workers and employees, but I think that here is where you have to start looking at it. How is the United States to undermine the Chinese? So how do you make these countries realize that you can't make a 25-year deal with the Chinese Communist Party because at any moment they are not as stable as they may appear to be. At any moment they can have, again, popular uprisings, lose control domestically. But you have to speak up about Taiwan.

You have to speak up about Hong Kong. If you let those issues develop the way they have been developing, you let them steamroll their own people, commit genocide in part of their region, and you're not coming after them with international criminal court subpoenas and trying to arrest their officials as they travel around the world. You're not putting in place the sanctions that are available on their activities with Iran. I think the U.S. has to look at a very hard-line policy to make it clear to the world that you can't trust the Chinese with a 25-year deal or even a 5-year deal. But right now they do look stable.

They do look like you can. And they are looking more and more, I'd say, slick, if you want to use just a basic word. You can tell that they have a more developed foreign policy and a more educated team going around the world.

And they're handing out money as they go. You know, it's interesting because Zarif, which this is not any great shock, who's their foreign minister, was very close with John Kerry. I think Kerry still, you know, views him as an ally. I think he's just, you know, look, the Iranian people are great. The government is not.

Here's what Zarif said. China is a friend for hard times. The history of cooperation between two ancient cultures of Iran and China date back centuries. Signing the cooperation agreement will further strengthen the ties of these two nations. Those are the words of the foreign minister, Harry, of Iran.

Absolutely. And I think he is right, at least in one respect, that this is a long-term strategic deal. Meanwhile, in the United States, we are not taking at least sufficient action to counter the deal. And one of the ways of taking sufficient action to counter the deal is by reducing U.S. dependence economically on China, which then weakens the Chinese economy and helps put the United States first. But the Biden administration has reversed a lot of Trump's policies, and hence the United States is actually in a weaker negotiating position. I'm going to suggest this, that after the radio broadcast today, Jordan, that we get in touch with our office in Washington.

We've got some new people that have joined us up there. James Ruckus, who worked as a high-ranking official in the Commerce Department, and others, because commerce is what this is about for them. This is business.

And business means control and means governmental influence. That's what this is. And we need to have a unit within the ACLJ that's focusing on China in a very significant way. Because I think this is a serious, I mean, every day it's something new. Yeah, every day.

Every day. So they're launching domestically, and in their region they're displaying more and more military firepower and putting it on display for the world. And then also they're taking out a foreign policy. Where is our foreign policy? Where is our State Department?

Where is Blinken? Oh, they're being told off in Alaska at conference tables by lower-ranking officials than the foreign minister. That's who's coming to meet with the United States now. They're not sitting in the foreign minister, they're sitting in lower-ranking officials, and they're being told off on camera. This was not where China was 20 years ago, and it wasn't where any country was that was trying to do business with Iran so clearly. And they weren't treating us this way. They would have never pulled this deal with Iran under the previous administration. I just can't imagine. No way.

No way. Because the previous administration did not provide them with the stability they needed to make these kind of plans. They kept them on their toes constantly.

And I think that people, we, you know, people say, oh, the Trump administration, I was tiring to see kind of how everything was handled in the media. But think about what that did to the world. Those guys couldn't make decisions for 20 years.

They were trying to figure out 20 minutes. Because they saw what President Trump did with Turkey. They saw how he handled Erdogan and his team and threatened to cut them off completely. And that's a NATO ally.

So what would you do to an adversary? And what do you care about debt? Remember, we were having that conversation. Say, who cares if we have debt to China? We'll just never pay it. You think that was good for their economy? And we said we'll just forget that this debt even exists. That's the kind of thing we need to start looking at again.

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Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. I mean, as I said before the break, every day we're getting something new. I mean, there's, you know, this $400 billion here, $400 billion there. But Harry, it's important because you've taught this, law and economics, international law. This is not just, the money is just the front for what's really going on underneath. And I think that's what we need to explain to our audience. What are the Chinese government, not the people, the government of China, what are they up to?

They're purchasing influence in the Middle East, purchasing influence in Iran, and the Iranians are quite willing to be, if you will, subsidized, because this may at the margin help with respect to their own military and strategic ambitions. So I think it's very, very important not to separate economics from China's strategic and military interests. They are all interlinked, and I think it's impossible to separate all of that. We're going to increase our work in this area. Now, we've already talked about, hey, I need the fact that we've got an amendment to our complaint.

I'm holding the complaint in my hand right here. This is a complaint that the American Center for Law and Justice filed in federal court against the United States National Security Agency, the Office of Director of National Intelligence of Rick Sarnell's old office, and the U.S. Department of State, Mike Pompeo's old department, State Department. And we're going to add the FBI. The reason is we want to find out what the FBI knew about Swalwell's connections with Fang Fang, with the Chinese Communist Party, with interns in his office, with them getting money for him and putting people and placing people in positions of authority. And we're not going to take no for an answer to this by simply them coming back and saying we don't even have the documents. We're not going to give you the documents. The documents pose a reason for national security to be invoked or any other bogus reason that they may pose, Jay.

There's another issue here, though. And so we're going to get the lawsuit. We're going to add the party to the lawsuit. We're looking at maybe doing this on a state basis as well. We'll talk to our team about that. We're going to find out about this economic influence to our office in Washington.

But Jordan, you said something earlier. We have an office in Moscow that's affiliated with us that's been fighting for religious freedom for three decades. But the Russians have really taken a second place here, and that's the economics of the reality. They don't have the money. They're not a major economic player compared to a China. I mean, they don't have the same kind of economic deals either. So you don't get a lot of made in Russia products at all.

And that's not something that is commonplace anywhere in the world. They're also using Chinese goods and goods from other countries and employees. What's the China-Russia relation? Better than the U.S. relation with anyone, but I think that this is because the Biden team thought they could come in and just change it with tone. And they don't even want to sit down at the table until we release all this. If they get that, that's much better than a few billion dollars like they got into the initial nuclear deal where they had all those inspectors all over the place even though they weren't really able to inspect anything. It was still annoying to the Iranians. They are now publicly flaunting that deal and selling off their oil to a country that you could be completely, totally sanctioned and economically cut off by doing business with Iran, especially when it comes to Iranian oil. And China's saying, no, no, publicly we're going to do this deal. They're not worried about the U.N.

They're not worried about any world agencies or the U.S. sanctions. I don't think they're worried about unilateral sanctions either because the U.S. can only go so far in cutting off China. Listen to this quote from Ali Shirati who is an economic analyst and was until recently a member of Iran's Chamber of Commerce. For too long in our strategic alliances, we have put all our eggs in the basket of the West and it did not yield results. Now if we ship policy and look at the East, it won't be so bad. That tells you, and it's acknowledged when you look at the history of this, that the Chinese tried to do this in 2016 but that's when the JCPOA was going on. Then they tried a little bit during the Trump administration but they realized, they really backed off them because the idea that the Chinese were going to start meddling with Iran with the United States policy wasn't going to happen. But as soon as they saw the opening with the election, as soon as they saw it, they're saying things like, now if we ship policy and look at the East, it won't be so bad. Yes, and I think that's a very, very perceptive comment, particularly in light of this fact. We should keep in mind that China is completely dependent on Mideast oil production. That's number one. Number two, we should keep in mind that the United States, under the Biden administration, is moving toward advancing what might be called a climate change agenda in which U.S. production of fossil fuels will decline.

Guess what? This advances China's interests and its ability to influence Iran because Iranian oil production becomes more and more important on the world stage. So all of these things kind of coalesce to advance Iran and China's hegemony and they are going to continue to cooperate. And these are ancient cultures. Ancient cultures.

There was, we did a big research project on this at our Oxford Center years ago, published a book about this. And if you look at Iran and you look at China, there was the famous Silk Road of Commerce. That Silk Road ran from China to Persia.

That's right. This is nothing new. These are not new allies.

These are not newly forged relationships. The Chinese and the Persians have had ancient ties. They're now just being re-engendered under the guise of Beijing's ambition to be a global leader of nations that opposes Washington and its allies. And what this shows with Iran, the deal, is increasing confidence and an unapologetic China.

In other words, one that refutes American criticism of its internal affairs and presents its own values as a model for others, Jay. They do that to try and make themselves look like the people that they are. These are basically street thugs who came to power. The Ayatollah is no one special.

His leaders are literally street thugs. Some of the more uneducated people in Iran who are leading Iran now, they go to their own schools. The Chinese, yes, some of them have been educated in the United States now, but notice they would tout that over being educated anywhere in China still to this day. Or tout being educated anywhere else around the world.

But they are street thugs. They want to talk about these ancient histories. But as Rick Rinnell said, the Persian idea of Persian idea has been trampled. No one thinks Iran now and thinks Persian history. They think religious fanatics, psychotic leadership, and a base of people which obviously some of them don't disagree with that psychotic leadership.

Now there's a big group that does, but they are not powerful enough to overthrow the government on their own. So they're not that big. And so for how long do we let these kind of people play this culture card that is bogus?

And that's a figure of the United States. Claudia asked this, and the answer to this is we'll see. Can we expect some sort of economic retaliation from other nations in the Middle East or will the Chinese buy them off as well? We're not going to say.

I think that Rick's right about that. Even the sanctions that should ultimately snap in automatically won't be applied the same way to China. Because of the United States leadership. Because of too much reliance on the trade.

Too much reliance on business. Alright folks, don't forget our matching challenge. That's how we go to court to get the answers to these questions. ACLJ.org, that's also how we bring this broadcast to you each and every day. ACLJ.org, your gift is doubled in our last three days of our matching challenge campaign. ACLJ.org.

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