Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at CARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Francis taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick live.

Today's date, for me at least, is March 10th, 2025. A nice Monday here in the glorious state of Idaho. It's a really beautiful outside. What's really nice here is that the humidity is always so low that when it's 60 out there, it feels like 70.

And when it's 30, it feels like 40. It's really nice. It's really nice.

Nice that we have here in Idaho. Oops, there was my video. I don't know why that did that, but I'll just, yeah, there we go. Let's try that. All right, all right, all right. Now, if you want to participate in our chat room, and we have a chat that we do in rumble, you can join us.

Just go to rumble.com forward slash Matt Slick live, all one word. And you can join us there. It's a lot of fun. You know, I enjoy, I get a lot of laughs out of some of the things people say in there.

It's a good community of people, godly people, for the most part. Sometimes we get some obstreperous individuals who come in there, and they're just obstreperous. And you can call me up and say, what does that mean? I'll tell you. All right, so let's see.

What else is there? Oh, man. Oh, there we go. That's over there.

I don't think it's about it. Now, I had some interesting discussions this weekend online. As you know, I do a lot of online stuff. And it's interesting to see how people react and what they think, what they say, according to what they believe the Bible says. And I was listening to a video about something, and it gave me an idea about something else. And I may share that a little bit later today. I like it when one thing triggers another thing.

And I get these thoughts, get these ideas in my head. So anyway, if you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. Give me a call. You can also send me an email.

All you have to do is email me at info at karm.org, info at karmcarm.org. And give me a call. I mean, I got so many things going on. Sorry about that. Put in the subject line of the email, radio comment, radio question.

Yeah, I got a lot of stuff going on. All right, let's get to the first caller. Bob from Buffalo, New York. Bob, welcome. You're on the air.

Well, thank you there, Matt. I have a question. I've been doing a little research on the different denominations of the Christian church. I'm having a little bit of a difficulty with the Anglican church, and I'm looking for some information on that. What do you want to know? Is it a church that you would recommend? Does it have problems?

What the problems might be? I don't recommend it. I haven't done an in-depth, soteriological study. But let's see.

I'm going to do this and just do a little search. But the Anglican church has not come on my radar very often, because it's not that heretical. It's not like it's Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches, which are just flat out heretical, and they're false churches. The Anglican church does much better.

But I personally don't like it. This is subjective, because I don't like the churchianity, the high church-ishness in it. And with that often comes a form of legalism, and I'm not down for that. So they do affirm that salvation is by faith alone and not by works. And the Catholic church and the Eastern Orthodox church both teach salvation is by faith and works, a combination. But the Anglican, from what I understand, does not do that. And it does hold to sola scriptura as a final authority. So it's within the good Orthodox realm.

But I don't know, there's something in the back of my mind. It's a little too high church-ish for my tastes, and some smells and bells and things like that. And those things like that just always dissuade me from attending, because I can't help but wonder if people are more entranced in the ritualistic church-ish-ness than the Lord Jesus. And that's the thing that I have issues with. So you can tell it's a subjective kind of a thing, but not really based on anything doctrinally you have to really worry about. See what I'm saying?

Yeah, I was wondering about it, because from what little bit of research I've done, it seems that it was formed by King Henry VIII, so that he could divorce his wife and get away from the Roman Catholic Church. Yeah, well here's the thing. Let's say that's the case, and that it's got a bad origin. We have to be careful that we don't commit what's called the genetic fallacy. Henry VIII did this for the wrong reason, therefore the entire Anglican Church is false.

That would be a bad logic. The issue is, what has happened since then, are they within Orthodoxy? They certainly seem to be. They are from the Trinity, the deity of Christ, justification by faith alone, through Christ alone. They have the two sacraments of baptism and the communion supper. Now the questions I would have, the issue of the Eucharist. This is something that is a real concern, because the East Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Church both have false views of the Eucharist. They say it becomes the body and blood of Christ. The Anglican Church doesn't do that, but within Anglicanism there has been, in my past exposure to it, there has been a little bit of a leaning in some of the areas towards something like that. Now I'm very vague because I'm just doing it from memory. Like I said, the Anglican Church hasn't come up very often, so I haven't had to research it, but maybe I will now because you brought it up.

And I want to know my stuff better. So that's an issue. The other issue is a baptism necessary for salvation in the Anglican Church. Of what I understand it's not. So this is good.

It's good. And I knew a guy once who was going into the Anglican Church. And I tried to dissuade him a little. It wasn't really too hard of a try.

I was like, why are you doing that? Which is the reason he liked the high churchness and the authenticity and the smells and bells and stuff like that. OK. There you go. What kind of church are you looking for? All right. What are you looking for, though?

I'm looking for a good Bible-based solid church. OK. If Charlie would put in the link again in the private chat for, I should have it someplace, but I always mess up.

Maybe I do have it, I think. There's a, let's see, he'll put it in. I'll tell it what it is. There is something done by, yeah, there it is, by Master's Seminary. And you can go there.

I'll tell you what the URL is. And it's find a church. And they have good churches they recommend.

And you can do it for your area. And the URL is tms.edu. Themasterseminary.edu for education. So tms.edu forward slash find a church. But there's a hyphen between each one. Each word, find hyphen a hyphen church. So tms.edu find a church. If you go there, you can check out the churches.

Now let me give you a recommendation. Just a rule of thumb. You want to stay away from the Catholic Church, stay away from Eastern Orthodoxy, both teach a false gospel, false priesthood, and a false Mary.

All right. So you also want to stay away from churches and denominations that have the word united in it. Except for United Reformed. That's the one exception I'm aware of. For some strange reason, denominations that say united, whatever it is, are just across the board liberal and not to be followed. So it's a good rule of thumb. Stay away from the Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and any church with the word united in it, unless it's United Reform.

That's the only one. And so that's a good start. You also want to make sure the church does not have any women pastors or women elders.

And if they do, stay away. They're not believing the word of God in that area. And 80% of the churches and denominations that adopt women pastors and elders within two generations start adopting homosexuality as a viable lifestyle. That's my own research.

And so there you go. Between those, and if you go to my website, and just look up things to look for in a church, you can find another article that'll go in and discuss some other issues. Okay, and I'm not giving you a lot.

And if you are curious, if you find a church you're interested in, call me up and say, hey, here's the website. Can you check it out real fast? I've done it many times over the year. I'd be happy to. Okay. All right. Yeah, no problem at all.

Do you have time for one more? Sure, go ahead. Um, my second question is, how should Protestants celebrate Lent? I don't think they should. I don't see a reason to. I don't see anything in Bible for that. I see nothing in it.

It's a man-made tradition. Okay. Just, this is not there in the Bible. You there? All right.

Seriously. Sounds good. Good. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Thank you.

Where'd you go? Okay. God bless.

All right. Let's get next to, let's see. David from California. David, welcome. You are on the air.

Hey, Matt. So, I'm assuming you've heard of the new Amazon Prime series about King David. Uh, I haven't watched it though.

Okay. Apparently one of the things they ascribed to, or say in this series is that David was an illegitimate son. And I guess one of the backings is because of Psalm 51, where he talks about being born in sin. Yeah. Have you ever heard anybody try to say David was illegitimate and have any form of scriptural backing to that?

No, no, no. Is that something that can make me mean? Let's address that first. So that is a stupid use of that verse. And sin my mother conceived me. He's talking about his sinfulness and his fallen nature. That's what he's talking about. It's not adultery.

It's not something else that he did that's illegitimate. It's stupid. And I wish, it's one of the reasons I don't watch those things, because I start yelling at the TV. You idiot! And I don't want to break my TV. Okay.

So, yeah, because they don't, it's just so, it's just, oh, the liberals, duh. I wish, you know, I wish someone said, Matt, here's a million dollars. Do your own video on David.

Okay, great. We'll get some good research in there and have it done right. And then I could be the star, except we want good ratings.

So we have to get somebody good looking, because I look like a bag of logs, you know, that's sitting in the sun and got moldy. My second thought is the, if they do put something stupid like that, even if the rest of the show is good, should I avoid something like, avoid shows because of stuff like that or? When they stupidify something that's really important, then you have to go there with the Bible. Okay, now what else are they going to do? You know, it's like a church that ordains women.

You know, as ministers. Okay, they got that wrong. What else are they going to get wrong? You're not sticking with the word of God. You're sticking with something else.

So maybe I'll have to watch the David series now in order to, uh, to, you know, to, to see what else they do. It's just, oh, it's too stupidify, you know, to horrific. Make something horrific. It's just dumb.

Why do they do that? Yeah, we've got enough controversy. You don't need that. Oh, they need a, they need a holy slap. Hey, hold on.

We got a, they got a break coming up. Okay. All right. We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right. I want to welcome back to the show. Hey, I just want to say thanks, Charlie, uh, because Charlie's a good friend of mine and he brought up something. I didn't know that the Anglican church ordains women. So there, uh, therefore don't go to the Anglican church if they ordain women.

And, uh, so I'm gonna have to write an article on the Anglicanism, uh, for that reason. So thanks again, Charlie. Charlie's awesome. Let's get back on with Dave. All right. Hey, still here. All right, good.

So now we're talking about a little, I don't remember for now. We're ranting about Psalm 51. Yeah, it's a good Psalm. And, uh, the stupidifiers, you know, just, you can tell it, how much patience with people who don't believe God's word.

And then they change it with some stupid idea. And then he said, see, he says in sin, I was created. Oh, that means you're not created in sin.

If your mom and dad are legitimately married and have relations. No, we have a sinful nature. Romans 5 19, uh, because of the, the, uh, through the transgression of the one, the many were made sinners.

Uh, we were made sinners and he understands that. First Corinthians 15 22, in Adam all die. Romans 3, uh, Ephesians 2 3.

We are by nature children of wrath. Now these are New Testament verses, but the Old Testament understood the depravity and sinfulness of man, which is why they needed sin offerings all the time. And I don't know the exact verses, but there's lots of verses in the Bible to talk about the, the, uh, depravity of men. Jeremiah 17 1, uh, 17 9, for example, the heart is desperately wicked, deceitful. No, they can trust it. And there's verses in Proverbs that talk about, uh, the problems of our sin, enslavement of sin and in Psalms.

So this is so cool for them to say that that's what that implies out of Psalm 51. It just needs to, you know, need a tag team. Okay. To go up to those writers and say, okay, come here for a second. And one guy gets on his knee, hands and knees behind somebody.

And then the other guy pushes him over, stop it, stop it, stop it. Okay. And, uh, yeah, it's just, yeah, it's like, you know, curious if you think I should have, if we should avoid series like this when we find they do something asinine like that. Well, you know, that's up to you. Um, I watch those kinds of things on purpose sometimes because one, if I'm tired and I'm sleepy, I watch them. I'm wide awake because I'm yelling at the TV or, uh, I do it because people might ask me on TV, what is this? It's good, not stupidification, you know, whatever it is.

I have to know answers and things like that. So, but it's up to you if you want to, you know, go through it. It's like the chosen. I've been watching the chosen. I'm way behind some of the, on the stuff in the fourth season, but, you know, it's like I'm squinting my eyes every now and then, particularly because that as I'm watching the one about Peter and Peter, and they always happen with his, his arms, you know, muscle arms showing all the other disciples don't have, you know, muscular arms. They've got to show Peter, you know, there's muscle arms.

I'm like, gosh, sheesh. That's what you want to talk about and have for the disciples. And, um, then, you know, talk, the implication is him being a foundation and they misunderstood what the text was about and then they're promoting that. And then the guy who's playing Jesus is a Roman Catholic and it's, it's helping Catholicism out.

So it's stuff like that. I heard, I heard the developers behind the chosen were Mormon. Some of them are Mormon. They're using connections with Mormons down in Utah. Um, they have a, the Mormons have an area of, from what I understand, uh, about, um, that, that the set they're using.

That's what I understand. And it looks just like Utah. You know, I've been under many times in Utah.

I live in Idaho and so has the terrain that's there. And a good friend of mine, uh, Bill McKeever and a good friend, uh, Eric Johnson. Um, these are experts on Mormonism. I just talked to Bill a couple of days ago and, you know, we've talked about the show and the connection with the Mormons and Bill is willing to talk to, to, uh, Jenkins and others need to offer to talk to him about Mormons are not Christians. That doesn't mean you can't use your facility. Well, that's a different issue, but he needs to know that they're not Christians.

And if he does know that and he's trying to use their facility for greater good, I can get it. I can see that. So it just depends. Okay. Okay.

Well, it was more or less what I was curious about. I was having a, my wife and I were running through commentaries and different things, trying to sort out how in the world do you even twist that idea out of Psalm 51? Because anybody who knows any theology or basic theology would not draw that conclusion to my knowledge. No, it's easy to do.

All you need is a degree in theological doofism. And then you can do that. Okay.

Well, that was my question. Yeah. If you're theological doofus, you can do it. It just makes me, you know, I get irked, you know, I should have a shirt. I get irked occasionally, you know, occasionally I get irked by heresy. All right. I got to go. Well, all right, Dave. All right, man. God bless. All right. See, I get irked.

Hey, if you want to give me a call, the number's 877-207-2276. I've only said that a thousand times and sometimes I forget. You know, you just start saying it. Your brain's not even aware of it. It's just saying it.

You don't know what you're saying sometimes. All right. Let's get to Jermaine. Hey, Jermaine.

Welcome. You're on the air. Hello, man. How's it going today? What's going, man?

It's a lot better since you're on. Well, yeah. Well, I had a question about a, I guess, racism. A lot of, I know it's a hot topic with a lot of folks, but do our Christians ever justified in being racist, not talking about just like a preference, but racism. And what inspires this question is I was actually at a family function. And one of, uh, I guess my, my in-law hasn't, she, she, uh, she actually, I thought should have been applauded because she was struggling with homosexuality and we've been praying for her and she's left that lifestyle and she's found a young man she likes. But the problem was some of her family, he's, he's from Africa.

And he's darker than like your typical African-American would be. And I mean, most of us believers had no issue with that, but there were some people making comments and pre-judging this man based on purely how he looked like, you know, a couple of people. And the only reason I mentioned that is I expect that ignorance from people who are not followers of Christ, but these were, some of these were confessing Christians and I was really disappointed when I found this out and thank you for that.

And thankfully my wife wisely told me afterward cause I would have had to confront some people, but you know, this, uh, I spoke with a young man, he's, he hasn't hurt anybody. He's, he's college educated and like a lot of Africans, you know, speaks another language and he just didn't, I didn't think that was fair, especially from believers. So you're right. I'm looking for a good, a good way to gently rebuke some people who claim to be believers. Well, it's easy. Just say a white guy on the radio named slick says, stop it. Okay.

That'll help a lot. Um, look, racism is okay when you believe there's only one race. I believe that's how you, that's what it is. There's only one race. I don't believe in this idiocy of black, brown, white, green, whatever you want to call it.

I don't believe in that. It's just one race. We're all people.

We're all derived out of Adam and Eve. We're one race. We have different colors. We have different sizes, different shapes. That's it.

That's how it is. And, um, in fact, we have a friend he's, uh, eight, he's Asian. He's Korean. He was adopted, raised by just Caucasian people. And he's, uh, I think he's engaged to an African woman from Uganda and we're like, yeah, praise God. I would do the wedding in a heartbeat.

You know, no problem. We don't care. And I wouldn't care if my daughters married, uh, anybody who wasn't white skinned. That's not the issue. And that your friends should have the same issue. Would Jesus separate between them?

Would Jesus say, I'm sorry, you can't marry each other because your skin color is different. It's stupidity. Hold on. We've got to break and we'll get back for some more stupidity.

Not with Jermaine, but you know how it is. Welcome back to the show. Thanks for listening.

Bottom of the hour. Want to let you know that we stay on the air by your support, your donations. That's just how it works. I don't mention it very often. Uh, I like to trust my Lord. I just let people know what's going on. We pray about our support and if you like the show and if you would like to see it continue, please consider supporting us. It's easy to do. Just go to karm.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, forward slash donate.

And all the information you need is right there. We ask $5, $10 a month. Not very much, but if enough people do that, we can always pay our bills and keep the missionaries. We have two in Africa and two in South America who run various ministries and things down there related to Karm.

And, um, just get the gospel out there. So your donations, they don't just, you know, like here's some groups, 80% goes to staff. That's not how it works here. Donations, they go as much as we can get.

They go to this paying the staff's salaries down there and over in Africa. And so that we can get as much done as we can. All right, let's get back on with Jermaine.

Hey buddy, you're on again. All right. Um, well, you know, I, I appreciate your comments and for me, uh, I really have an issue when any, I don't care what they look like, but something I always wonder to follow up question when people make those kinds of judgments, are they kind of judging God's creation? Cause the way I see it, I don't really care about skin color.

I just, I care about believers, you know, believers in the Lord and my brothers and sisters and people have taken care of me who can barely speak English sometimes. So I just wonder if that's kind of a, uh, you know, if they're in dangerous territory where they're criticizing God's creation. Yeah.

And you're right. Um, uh, you know, it's, it's sad to see that we are so adept at just judging people by how they look instead of what's in their hearts. And we need to understand that people are souls and they're going to be in heaven and hell and in heaven. Do you think skin color is going to make any difference? Do you think it's going to be segregated in heaven? It's to say such a thing would be just foolishness. Uh, it's going to be redemption and all the prejudices and stupidity of our hearts and our minds will be gone.

And that'll be one of the things that'll be great too, to see just be gone. And by the way, uh, Moses married a Cushite woman that we assume Moses was, uh, cause I assume out of the, uh, the history of the Jews, what we see as Jews, Caucasian, but Cushite is Ethiopia area. And so he married essentially a black woman and no problem.

God wasn't upset with that, had nothing to do with skin color. So, as I said before, there's only one race, the human race, and that's how, uh, the it's how it is. We're just different shapes, colors.

And, uh, me, I'm of the, um, broken vessel clan with a side, uh, side serving of, uh, looks like a bag of logs. So, uh, there you go. Okay. And, uh, others have different subcategories that they fit into, but we're all by God's grace who are saved, saved by his grace, justified by his grace.

And, uh, we didn't need to, uh, just look at other people through the eyes of Christ, not through our own eyes. Okay. All right. Well, thank you very much, Matt. Appreciate you.

Hey man, keep calling back buddy. Anytime. All right.

So that is Jermaine. He's always got good questions. Good stuff.

I always liked what he calls. All right. Let's get to Nate from California. Nate, welcome. You're on the air. Oh, how are you, Matt? You hearing me?

Yes, I can. I hear you fine, man. Okay. For some reason, I fixed the phone better this time. Good.

You don't understand me. Yeah, no problem. Oh, God bless.

God bless. Um, my question is this, um, since the Jews don't believe in eternal hell, um, what is doing I, why do Isaiah 66 24 and Daniel 12 to talk about hell? Because hell is true.

It's a real thing. But that's in the old person and they don't believe in eternal suffering. Well, oh, you mean the Jews, a lot of Jews don't.

That's true. Um, but, uh, you know, it doesn't mean what they believe is right or wrong just because they're Jews. Just to remember a lot of the Jews rejected the Messiah. So with those who are left are those who have not heard or listened to the voice of God.

So they will not, they will be able to hear the word of God in some areas and understand, but there's certain spiritual aspects of things that they don't. So Isaiah 66 24, it's so, uh, then they'll go back and forth. Look for the corpses of the men who have transgressed against me for the worm will not die. Their fire will not be quenched and there'll be an abhorrence to all mankind. So this is a, uh, an illustration of eternal judgment upon them.

So of course it's there. Now, sometimes they'll say the worm doesn't die. Oh, but worms do die and the fire's not quenched. Of course fires are quenched. And they, what they do is they take literalness and then they apply it to the illustration and then they reinterpret the illustration to say it's not literal. Well, there's fire.

If it's the worm will not die. It's the illustration of the burning fire outside of, uh, Jerusalem and Gehenna, the valley that it was just constant fire and worms and, and, and refuse down there. And it was an illustration of where they would be sent. Okay, go ahead. Um, Daniel 12, two.

Daniel 12, two. Um, many of those, uh, who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake those everlasting life, but the others, a disgrace or everlasting contempt. Uh, so the way that they can interpret this with soul sleepers will interpret this, uh, and some annihilation as well, their sleep or unconscious soul sleep, which just doesn't necessitate that they will awake.

It sounds like a J W. Yeah. Yeah. And, and there's some serious problems with the soul sleep view, uh, especially among Christians, some really serious problems.

And I mean, major serious problems. I could show it to people, but he says, uh, in, in Daniel 12, two, these two everlasting life, but the others to disgrace, everlasting contempt. Well, we could use that as a judgment as eternal judgment upon the, the wicked, but they might say, well, the everlasting contempt and disgrace is our attitude towards them and they're annihilated or they go back to soullessly for a while.

Then they're annihilated or whatever. And so that's why we have contempt for them as well. That's the judgment, but it's not, it wouldn't make any sense. Their judgment is our disdain for them.

Of course not. So there are people who, um, try very frequently to twist the word of God into, uh, their particular theological perspective. And that's one of them.

Okay. It confuses me with them, have it, have it written in the Old Testament, of course. And then if you go to the New Testament, um, there's, um, three hells or eternal cause how this appears, but eternal suffering, um, there's three of those and three of them internal cause three and three heavens, if I'm correct. Well, there's three heavens that are mentioned, uh, the heaven, uh, the golden place of God, the, the, uh, stars and the sun, and then the, uh, clouds and the trees. These are the ranges that are spoken about.

Uh, I'm not familiar. There are, there are different words used to describe different aspects of what we call hell and, uh, in the Old Testament. So there's, there's, uh, Gehenna, Sheol, um, I'm trying to remember the other ones. I think those are the two major ones in the New Testament. There's Tartarus, um, and I think there's other places in the Old Testament just talks about just fiery judgment.

So, yeah, cause, uh, I think it's the last verse of, uh, of Revelation where it's, uh, I forgot what it was told something that he says that it's eternal suffering, but it also mentioned that John saw three, um, the most, the highest one where, um, God, um, is, um, with, uh, angels, all of them have wings in their head, in their back. That's illustration. Yeah.

That's illustration. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. But the book of Revelation does talk about, uh, torment day and night forever and ever. For example, Revelation 20, 10, the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are also, they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. So that's Revelation 20, 10. I think it's also 14, 11, um, the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever.

They have no rest day and night. Those who worship the beast and his image, whoever receives the mark of his name. There's lots of New Testament verses as well.

And, uh, 29, for example, whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but he's guilty of an eternal sin. So, yeah. Okay. There's the music. You want to hold on?

It just makes me wonder why the Jews don't. Hold on buddy, you've got to break. Okay. So hold on for the break. Okay. Okay.

Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Oh, I dropped him accidentally instead of hitting hold. My bad.

My apologies. If you want to call the number is 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey buddy, welcome back to the show. The last segment of the hour. Let's get back on with Nate. Sorry about that, buddy. Accidentally hit the wrong button. Glad you, glad you called.

Nah, no problem. Um, I just want to know, because every Jew that I speak with, um, who's a friend of mine, they do not believe. And, uh, I always ask them why, you know, you got the earth is for you guys is suffering. And they just say that, you know, it's just a regular, not ours, but so they're still waiting for the Messiah, supposedly. Yeah. And, um, it's, I find it strange, you know? Yeah. Um, but, uh, they've been taught what they've been taught over the years and they deny who Christ is. And so they don't have, uh, truth yet. Okay.

All right. This is what it is. But if they haven't been taught that, then it's like, they haven't read that part of their deal.

I'm not there because it's ours. Also the old twist and what it says there. Yeah, I know. But this, you know, if you ask why you have to ask different Jews, why they affirm or don't affirm. So that's it. There's just different ones, but generically speaking, they don't have the spirit of God. And they have had to deny a lot of the old Testament in order to continue to deny who Christ is. So they're not really committed to the depth of scripture.

And so then therefore they're not going to believe in those things, generally speaking. Okay. Yeah. I just pray for them because I pray for everyone. Good. Everyone needs prayer.

That's what I thought you should do. Absolutely. God bless. And, um, as always, may the Lord bless you and the family and everyone. You too, man.

God bless them. Thanks. Appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah.

All right. Now let's get to Jeremy from Kentucky. Jeremy, welcome. You're on the air. Thank you for taking my call, brother.

Slick. Sure. So my question, I was listening to your show from Friday and you had a caller who was asking about the inheritance of the Holy land. And, uh, you said, you know, the promises to Abraham, um, they would inherit the land. Have you ever given thought that that would belong to the spiritual Israel, if you perceive them as being those in Christ and only the promises can be given to those in Christ, therefore being the indivisible church?

Well, then you'd have to spiritualize what it means for God covenantally to say to Abraham that he will give them the land of Canaan, which is a specific geographical area. And so that's what he has promised. Okay. All right.

Okay. Joshua said he had the land, um, so wouldn't we see the land fulfillment within Joshua's day? Cause Abraham didn't possess it. Jacob didn't possess it. But then we read in Joshua that that was their land.

He drove out the seven different, uh, countries. So if we see a land fulfillment within, uh, I just, um, I just given it thought that that would actually belong to the church, like we, that those in Christ should be the meek inheriting the earth. Like in all honesty, wouldn't the whole earth be inherited to us?

No, no, no, no, no, no. Israel's proper. God gave a physical location.

That's what he did to spiritualize it. Now say now Israel doesn't belong to them. Now the land belongs to the Christians.

It's that doesn't, it doesn't flow. And furthermore, in Romans 11 25, I do not want you brother to be uninformed to this mystery so that you'll not be wise in your own estimation. A partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. So all Israel will be saved, just as it's written that the liberal will come from Zion, et cetera. This is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.

When I take away their sins. So he's not done covenantally with Israel. And part of the Abrahamic covenant was to give the land to the Jews.

So they're in the land now. Okay. Yeah, we see, so we see Jews saved every single day, but they have no other entrance into the covenant other than being in Christ. So we would have to see a revival with the Jews, the new covenant.

Okay. The new covenant, the new covenant, right? Right. So yeah, they need the entrance in the new covenant, generically speaking through Christ. But there's some evidence found in Hebrews that suggests that people could be in the new covenant and not really be Christians.

I know that's a little controversial, but I don't want to suggest that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because of Hebrews 11, where was that? 20, I got to find it.

Can you pull that out? No, 10, Hebrews 10. And I have to go through this some more, but Hebrews 10, 20, 29, anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. So he's talking about Old Testament stuff.

How much severe punishment do you think he will deserve who has trembled underfoot the son of God? God, that's Jesus, and is regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant. That's the new covenant by which he was sanctified and set apart. Doesn't mean he's saved.

Sanctification doesn't necessitate that and is insulted the spirit of grace. These are new covenant terms. So because of that, I have to do more research, but it looks like people can be entered into the new covenant. And when Jeremiah 31 talks about the covenant, there's three aspects of the covenant of Jeremiah 31. A lot of times people only get one aspect of Jeremiah 31 31. But in Jeremiah 31, let's see. It's been a while since I've gone through this.

Started really fast. It says, starting verse 27, go ahead. If we just start at 9, he says he does away with the old covenant to bring in the new that we see the fulfillment with Christ with Abraham. The Abrahamic covenant with Christ. And it is an everlasting promise. So we'll experience the blessings of it, but I don't see how we can get because we have to, I mean, tens right after not, of course, tens right after not. Got to finish your sentences.

You don't see how we can get. And then you go into something else. So I don't see how we could get people into the new covenant without them being into Christ. Well, that's the question of this race in Hebrews 10 27 28. That's the question.

That's all I'm saying is it's a question because, you know, Hebrews 10, for example, Hebrews 10 26. This is stuff I'm going through trying to figure out. Haven't got all figured out yet. Okay.

I'm working through it. Yes. It says, for if we go on sitting willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth are no longer made of sacrifice for sin.

Okay. So he's talking to the Hebrews, but a terrifying expectation of the fear of fire, you know, et cetera. Anyone who sets aside the law of Moses, he's talking to Hebrews.

How much severe punishment do you think he will deserve who's trampled underfoot the son of God and regardless unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified has been an assault of the spirit of grace. I'll get a sneeze. Hold on. Oh, sorry about that. Bless you brother. Bless you. And so when I read that, man, that's a toughie because you know, I've always thought that the new covenant was only for believers because God will write on the parts all this stuff.

However, however, not necessarily. So if you're to go to Jeremiah 31 additional homework assignment, it's kind of a fun one. In verse 27, it says, behold, days are coming, declares the Lord. In verse 31, behold, days are coming, declares the Lord.

In verse 38, behold, days are coming, declares the Lord. So there's three specific things. It looks like past, present, future kind of stuff that goes on there in that covenant.

So, and I'm looking at this and I haven't got it all figured out. The new covenant was, this is my notes, was prophesied in the Old Testament, fulfilled in the New Testament when Jesus instituted the supper. He was ratified with the death of Christ. The new covenant replaced the old covenant and included both Jews and Gentiles. Jesus said the blood of the new covenant is poured out for many.

Now that's interesting. He didn't say everyone, but many. And that's a significant word theologically. I never hear anybody talk about, but I know the term the many has a theological significance in the writings of Paul. But anyway, the new covenant sign is the cup of the Lord's supper, which represents the shedding of Christ's blood and on the cross. Now, Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant. Jesus is the priest of the new covenant, et cetera. Those in the new covenant will have God's law written on their hearts.

Their sins will be forgiven, et cetera. Okay, so that's what they say. And I go, that's what it says. That's exactly what it says.

However, when we go to, let me get back over there, I'm gonna move this window. It says in the chapter of Jeremiah, it says in verse 27, as I have watched over them to pluck them, to break them down, to overthrow them, to destroy them. This is past tense. He says, I will watch over them to build and plant. This is part of the covenant, the new covenant. He's talking about Israel. Then he says, behold, in verse 31, he says, when I make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Now, this is what confuses the bejeebers out of me.

I'm still there, still confused about this. The new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. The house of Israel is the biological line. That's the biological line.

That's what it always means. The house of Israel, the house of Judah. They were divided at that time, but they were descendants of Abraham. This is not like the covenant made before. I'll put my law within them, et cetera.

We know about that. And then in verse 38 declares the Lord, these are coming. When the city will be rebuilt for the Lord, for the tower of Hanel, it's a bunch of areas in Jerusalem area.

He says it will not be plucked up or overthrown anymore. This seems to be part of the new covenant, but that's not in place yet. So this is why I'm going, okay, the new covenant has aspects past, present, and future. And yet in Hebrews 10, 28, it looks like people can break the covenant inside of it, which is covenantal language. And Jeremiah 31, it's the covenant's future too. So it's like, oh, I got to figure it out.

I know that feeling. Absolutely. As a Presbyterian, I mean, you would claim Presbyterianism over any other thing, correct?

Yeah, I have. Presbyterian is just a shorthand view of saying what I believe. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I'm closer to that than I go to a Reformed Baptist church, but I'm probably closer to a Presbyterian belief in most practices. But Hebrews 10, 29 would support Presbyterianism.

It would. Right. That's what I was about to say, because we have covenant children that could walk away without ever being truly in and, I mean, treating your child as a covenant member and actually giving them the sign and all that, so that we have an answer for that.

Is there anything in the Old Testament? Hold on, buddy. We got a break. We're at the end of the show.

The music's going. We just can't go. Call back tomorrow. Let's talk about it, OK? All right, man?

Yeah, absolutely. All right, God bless. You have a blessed day, brother. You too. And Jim from North Carolina, where did sin originate? Oh, good question. Call back tomorrow. We'll talk. God bless everybody. Have a good evening.