The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at KARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.
Francis taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the show.
It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick live. Today's date is December 6th, 2024. Nice Friday. And I think next week is Friday the 13th. And so we'll talk about that and what that might have originated of.
It's really interesting. So there's that. And let me just say that if you want to give me a call, it is easy. All you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. And if you want to email me, you can do that. Just as easy. Just direct your email to info at KARM.org, info at C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, KARM.org.
And put in a subject line radio comment, a radio question. All right, I'm going to go look at those right now, some of those, because Fridays are slow usually and December gets slow. So that's that's interesting. Looks like a black old male. Hmm. I don't know.
It might be interesting to read. Yeah. Oh, hey, wait a minute. We got a whole bunch of. Hey, I've been looking. I didn't even check this out.
I thought we had a whole bunch of whacko mail. Maybe. Let me check this out. I see. I am Zelda on to tell you the truth, but everything I revealed about my religion was fairly was mainly figurative, mainly figured out.
I did research over the Internet and Central Library and a place in Texas on the wage movement. Yeah, it's a long thing. And that reminds me.
This is for real. I remember that. I remember that, you know, back in high school, I had algebra and trigonometry and I loved I love math. I enjoyed math classes. And so I would always help people, too. And I use math and I use trig and algebra a lot.
And one of the jobs I had as a designer and I even taught a guy how to do trigonometry in 20 minutes. He was shocked. I said, no, that's how you do it here, Michelle.
It's simple. And he was doing it anyway. So in my high school class, there was this professor.
He's really good professor. He knew how to just really kind of make it easy and explain complicated things. And it made it enjoyable. So I enjoyed it.
In fact, I used to write trig equations out, just make them up to see if I could solve them, because sometimes you can't always solve the things you get to. And it was a lot of fun. So years later, I'd graduated from seminary and I'd already gone to college, like 10, 12 years later after high school. And I'm walking by our church in a strip mall at a facility there. And I see my professor from college.
I mean, excuse me, from from high school. I look up, I go, hey, how are you doing? You know, this is me, Matt Slick. He goes, oh, yeah, I remember you. And we got talking and I said, what have you been up to?
How come you're down here? This is, you know, this was like 100 miles away from, you know, from what high school was. He said he moved down to San Diego where I was. Well, we got talking and I was shocked by what he said. He said, I couldn't believe it.
And he was serious. He was taking a shower one day and he got a revelation in a shower about who was who God was and everything about him. And that he needed to tell everybody who this who God really was. And I'm staring at him, not able to fully comprehend the the the inane comments that he was making about God that were inconsistent. And he didn't know what I did for, you know, that I was an apologist at the time and and knew how to answer this stuff. And I just sat there in shock and I tried a few questions to try to dig into some stuff that I had to go.
He had to go and didn't really get very far, but it was nice to meet him. But it was pretty obvious to me that he didn't know what he was doing and didn't know how to think of these things through critically. This just goes to show you that intelligence does not mean you end up with truth.
You can believe all kinds of wacko things and be very intelligent. It's a spiritual issue. And sometimes people get the wrong idea about things. And then what they do is they run with it and they turn into people who.
People who couldn't find a way out of a wet paper bag if it was on a centrifuge, they were in a centrifuge, a NASA centrifuge, and it was pointing outward while it was on because they couldn't get out. So, you know, it does happen like that. Well, nevertheless, if you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. And I want to hear from you. Give me a call.
And why don't we let's see. Not sure what that means. Let's get to Richard from Winston-St. Louis, North Carolina. Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, there.
I'm the one that called to ask you about. It's. Yeah. Does everybody hear the trumpet?
Oh, does everyone hear the trumpet sound? Yeah. And I've got another question. OK, I've heard.
Thank you. So years ago that every time you deny the Holy Spirit of coming into your life, that God will harden your heart. And it's harder to accept Christ. What?
It doesn't make any sense. You mean, OK, well, you deny that he's come into your heart or you don't want him to come into your heart. You're not a Christian.
What is which is it? Now that you deny it. I mean, when people when preachers ask him if they want to receive Christ and they they don't receive them, that God will harden your heart maybe for the next time it's going to be harder to accept Christ. Well, that may be the case, but I couldn't say that it is or is not because no scripture that I'm aware of says that. Plus, we don't know what goes on in everybody's hearts. So it's hard to say what goes on in their hearts. And so unless they can show me scripture that says what that theory is, then I can't affirm it.
That's what you should do is say, show me that in the Bible, show it to me in scripture. Right. Well, like I said, I heard heard it years ago, but I didn't know if it was true or not.
I would not put too much credence on it. OK. OK, thank you. You're welcome. All right.
God bless you. Bye bye. Bye. Let's get to Mark from L.A. Mark, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Mark.
Hey, this is Mark. How are you doing that? I'm doing OK, man. Hanging in there, hanging in there.
What do you got, buddy? Great. I was going to see if you can help me fully understand what's going on at the end of John 10, when Jesus quotes Psalms 82. I'm just trying to understand what he's saying there. When they pick up stones to kill him for basically claiming deity, right? Yes.
Yeah. The pericope you're talking about starts in John 10 30. And it says many says, I'm the father of one that picked up stones again to throw at him. May good works of the father.
I've shown you for which of these are you stoning me? But for good work, we don't stone you. But you being a man make us out to be God. And Jesus says, is it not written in your law? I said you are gods. If you call them gods to whom the word of God came and the scripture cannot be broken. Do you say of him whom the father sanctified and said into the world, you're blasphemy? Because I said, I'm the son of God.
Jesus is playing with them. Now, what he did was he said something very significant. He says it's not written in your law. Now, the law is for everybody. It's and he says your law.
He's calling them to task on this issue. And when he goes to Psalm 82 six, he says, I you know, I said, you are gods. Psalm 82 is what's called an imprecatory song. Imprecatory song is a song where there's judgment and the wishing of harm upon people.
Believe it or not, they're called imprecatory songs and there's more than one. So what it says, it's all me to verse one, God takes his stand in his own congregation. He judges in the midst of the rulers. Now, notice the Jews are going to know about this song. So when he's applying it to them, this is what he's saying.
He's using it to sum up the song. Verse two. How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Vindicate the weak and fatherless. Do justice to the afflicted and destitute. Rescue the weak and needy. Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked. Vindicate the weak and fatherless. They do not know, nor do they understand. They walk about in darkness. What's he saying to them?
You don't understand. You walk around in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are shaking. I said, you are gods and all of you are sons of the most high. Nevertheless, you will die like men and fall like any one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth, for it is you who possesses all the nations. So it's a judgment song upon the people at that time that wicked judges who are not carrying out their proper duty to take care of the people.
That's a loose way of saying it. And Jesus is applying that to the Pharisees at the same time. Okay.
So in the same way God is chastising the rulers in the Old Testament, he's chastising the Pharisees there in the New Testament, John 10. Okay. That makes more sense to me now. Okay. There you go. All right. Appreciate it. Sure, man.
No problem. You got anything else? I think I've got lots of questions, but I think that's good. Well, if you have more, call back, get in line and we can talk. Well, if you don't mind, if I don't want to hold up the line, but I have another cool question. Sure.
Go ahead. Well, so I'm a Reformed background, but the one question that I just, one thing I just can't wrap my head around is this understanding that certainly if, you know, God has exhaustive knowledge of everything means that God has to decree everything, right? So he predestines everything. I certainly believe this, but how can we understand this fully if man is still responsible for his actions? All right, so I'm going to give you two quick concepts.
We may have a break here before I get to them, but I'll try and have it make sense. So Adam was in the garden and he chose to rebel and eat the fruit. He did not. I mean, he did it of his own free will.
No one forced him. So he's the one responsible because he decided to do something. This he's called the efficient cause, the efficient cause of his own action.
That's what it is called. Now, the proximate cause is the garden with the trees, with the fruit, with the command, don't eat it. And God letting Satan come in the garden. So God's the proximate cause of Adam's sin. But it doesn't mean he's the efficient cause. Efficient causation means that you're responsible because you're the one doing the action on your own. No one's forcing you.
But the proximate cause is the condition in which you freely act. OK, you got that? All right. Yeah.
With me so far. OK, I'm going to use a paper. OK, imagine a piece of paper.
It's blank. And in the middle is a dot. And that dot is God. And you draw squiggly lines from that dot out to the edge of the paper. Twenty, thirty lines doesn't matter. Each one of those represents a potential existence timeline of all things.
Whichever one God actualizes, all those events in it are going to occur, including the efficient cause choices of freewill people within the proximate conditions that God has brought about. I wish they could make them. Hold on. We got to break right back after these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Robert, welcome back to the show. Oh, no, he's still there. Let's get on back on with Mark. Whoops. There we go, Mark. You're on the air again.
You still there? All right. Yes. All right, man.
So I had to kind of wrap it up quickly for the break, but did that make sense? Yeah, I lost you when you were talking about dot, middle paper, all the different lines. God chooses the world, right, to actualize.
OK, so let me go back over slowly here. So on the piece of paper is nothing except a dot and the nothing out there just represents nothing. And you draw squiggly lines from the dot out to the paper, but just squiggly lines. Each one of those lines represents a timeline that God is aware that he could create because he knows all things infinitely. He knows what he can bring into existence. And those just represent different thoughts of timelines that are, you know, throughout all of history because God knows everything. Right. First John three twenty.
So out of let's just say there's a million of those, a kabillion, it doesn't matter. What he does is what we could do put this way. We could take that line, a particular line, and we could microscope scope down into it and look and look and look. We see, you know, you or me walking and taking a turn in a store left or right. We freely choose to do it, but we couldn't do it if he did not bring the universe into existence. The galaxy, the solar system, the planet, the continent, the city down to where we are, the store, et cetera, all through working through the ultimate causation of God for us to be able to make our free will choices.
As we're able to choose, but God knows exactly what will happen because out of all possibilities that could exist, he brought into existence one particular timeline in which we have freedom, which we are able to make choices consistent with our nature. And they're going to occur because it gets more complicated than that. But at that level, just leave it there. Okay? Okay.
Okay. That makes a little more sense. And I guess the difference between that and like Molinism, for example, is God sees the possible world that man makes and he chooses. And obviously that's a big no-no. That's correct. It's a big no-no because it means God's choices depend on man's choices and it denies.
Contingent on man's. Okay. Yes.
And there's some violations of some certain doctors. We get into that white, white's bad, but you're on the right track. What are you getting at? Great. All right. Appreciate it. All right, man.
God bless. All right. Okay.
I'll talk to you later. Thank you. All right.
All right. Now let's get to Jay from Ohio. Jay, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. How you doing, man? Oh, hanging in here.
I got a bit of a cough, but other than that, I'm okay. Hanging in there. Yeah.
Cough's really hanging on, huh? It's been a while. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's what it is.
You know, just what it is. All right, man. What do you got? Yeah. So yesterday you were reading about baptism and the Didache and I just wanted to follow up on that a little bit. Sure.
What do you got? Yeah. So I'm I'm a reform Baptist. And ironically, this this may be a shock, but two Christians disagree on the same passage of a text.
So when I wait, you're just to clarify, your position basically is like. You they would be baptizing in water, but the method that they're doing is just pouring it on their head while standing in water, basically. That's one way.
Yes. The reason I said that is because when I look at the patterns baptized with water, anointed with oil, anointed with blood, sprinkled with blood, the with something always is applied to the object. That's just a pattern of scripture. And so when I see that and plus the mathematics, don't know if you heard the mathematics analysis of if this is it possible to baptize that people in one night, you know, it just caused people to think that that's what I'm trying to get to do. Sure. Yeah, that's I've read your article about that as well.
That's pretty interesting stuff. I never considered a lot of the specifically I was referring to Chapter seven in the dedicate, which you read from yesterday. I think what they are saying is the typical mode is submersion baptism. And if that's not possible, then to go to a pouring or a sprinkling baptism and where I'm getting that. Baptized into the name of the father and of the son of the Holy Spirit in living water. If you have not living water baptized into other water and if if you cannot in cold and warm, but if you have not either pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of the father and of the son of the Holy Spirit. So what how I'm reading that basically is like the normal traditional mode would be to baptize into water. And if that's not possible, as in submersed in water, and if that is not possible, if there's no like body of water around you, then a pouring baptism would be appropriate, basically. What do you think about that? I think it's logically possible that those within within a norm of being able to say this possible.
Yeah. You know, pouring water is accepted as baptism. And what I find is it says baptize you having recital the precepts baptizing the father, son of the Holy Spirit in running water. And I don't know what that means in running water.
Does it mean you're standing in running water or does it mean you have to be submerged in running water? Because it just doesn't tell us. So, you know, I just can't make a strong case either way. And yeah, I think I get that. It's a good it's a good point. I think, though, I think we can get there just because the third option is saying, if these things aren't possible, then pour out water thrice upon the head.
So I from that I and I get what you mean. It's a good point. It's a good point.
But from that, I would say I would say that if that's not possible, if there is no body of water, there's no river around you, then pouring out thrice on the head would be, you know, that would be like the alternative option from the normal from the normal method. Basically would be my understanding. I think that's a good point. I think it's good logic because the implication is there's an immersion.
And if that can't happen, then poor. So. Right. Yeah, I think that's I think it's a good point. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. And I've looked into it a little bit in the past.
Like I said, I'm a reformed Baptist. And basically what I understand from the research that I've done into into like this chapter of the dedicate and the dedicate itself is like, obviously we're talking about Middle Eastern nations and stuff like that prominently in the first century. A lot of them don't have access to water, to ponds or to rivers or anything like that being in the desert and stuff. So this was like the alternative option. If that were the case, basically, if you weren't around anything or you were under persecution or something like that, you couldn't travel to water. That would be the method that they would allow for. Basically, that would be like the exception to the to the normal cause. Yeah, I would agree. You know, I've been to Israel a couple of times and we've driven around and there are just some areas where you just don't find water.
I'm sorry. Right. And large areas, large swaths, you know, you have to carry water with you. So we could theoretically say theoretically that wouldn't die on this hill at all, that there were more baptisms by pouring or than there were by immersion. Theoretical is the case if that geographical area is taken into.
But then if there was in a big city near the river, then maybe it would work the other way. But good points. All right. Yeah. All right, man. God bless. All right. Well, thank you.
Yep. God bless you. All right.
God bless. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. Also, it looks like our room on Clubhouse crashed or something nefarious.
I don't know. Anyway, also just want to remind you that this month is the matching funds drive. And so, month of December.
If you want to support us and you like what you hear and you want us to keep ourselves on the air, you can support us. And to do that, you just go to CARM.org forward slash donate, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G forward slash donate. All the information you need is right there. And so if you donate $20, it becomes 40. Another 20 gets matched to it. Just let you know.
And again, it's CARM.org forward slash donate. Let's get to Scott from Utah. Scott, welcome. You're on the air.
Scott, are you there? Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Yes, I can.
I can hear you. Uh-huh. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, I just had a question. I was wondering if you ever thought about or pondered one of many instances, but when Satan was tempting Jesus when he was fasting for 40 days and 40 nights.
Yes. How did he not know who Jesus was? Who says he didn't know? Because doesn't he go back and forth to heaven to ask God permission for things?
And isn't Jesus there being God? Well, yeah, Satan would have known that. I would certainly assume that's the case. I don't know of anything in the scripture that says that Satan didn't know who he was.
Maybe there's all the more reason why he wanted to tempt him. Right. Yeah, I would just listen to a YouTube thing that Jordan Peterson was doing about the Bible and stuff, and he brought up something about that.
And I was just wondering, you know. Yeah, Jordan Peterson's really good with stuff, but he needs to be careful about theology. I'd love to be able to tutor him on certain areas of theology, just get him a little bit more polished, because he's a good representative of good thinking. But he needs to have better information.
But nothing in this scripture that I'm aware of says that Satan didn't know who he was. Right. I just wondered, because if he knows that he was Almighty God, you're tempting him with everything that he already has created and owns.
Yeah. And a lot of people make a mistake of thinking, well, that's just not a smart thing to do. Of course he wouldn't do that, because he knows that he's Jesus. But they forget about the insanity of evil and the fallenness of the evil one. He's not rational, I mean, he is to a point, but he's insanely evil rational. And he will work, even if it's against what obviously seems to be the victory in the place of God. God's going to work, but he's still going to work against him. It's just how evil he is. So, yeah.
I would say that maybe God had temporarily blinded him to who Jesus was or something like that. But, yeah, I mean, the evil thing definitely makes sense. Yeah. But remember, always find it in scripture. It's easy to just say, well, we think this and that. Well, OK, but do you have any scriptural backup for that?
Now, if they say, you know, someone says something like, look, it's not in scripture. Here's my position. I'm not going to die in this hell. This is what I think and I have my reasons, but, you know, and they just give you that.
It's just nothing more than an opinion. That's fine. You're doing that.
But don't say things like, oh, this is the reason when the Bible doesn't say. OK, that's what you're right. Right.
Simple. All right. Gotcha. I thank you. I appreciate your time. Hey, no problem, man.
God bless. Have a good day. Bye bye.
All right. Now, let's get to Tom from Florida. Tom, welcome. You're on the air.
Hello, Matt. May I please have your perspective and opinion on two questions, both related to eschatology and times? Sure.
No problem. And if I may, the first one is the familiar passage when Jesus is speaking in Matthew 24, concerning one will be taken, one will be left. That's the wicked who were taken.
I'm sorry. The wicked are the ones taken, not the good. That was my question.
Your position is the wicked. Yeah. Could you give me just a little backing for that? Yeah, sure. Sure. No problem. So what I'm going to do. I've done this so many times, I can just basically quote it. So Matthew 24, Luke 17.
All right. Matthew 24, 37 and Luke 17, 26. And so it says, as it was in days of Noah, so shall it be the days of the coming of the Son of Man, for they were eating, they were drinking and they were giving in marriage until Noah entered the ark and the flood came in. Luke 17 says, destroyed them all. Matthew 24 says, took them all away. So the ones who were eating and drinking and giving in marriage, you're making a lot of noise in the background there, man.
It's coming through. So the ones who were eating and drinking, giving in marriage are the wicked people. That's who it's talking about. Until the flood came in, took them all away. Matthew 24, until the flood came in, destroyed them all in Luke 17. Then it says two men will be taken, one will be left. So the context of who's taken is the wicked. And then in Luke 17, they said, they asked in the last verse of Luke 17, where were they taken to? And he answers, where the body is, there also the vultures will gather. So Jesus tells them that's where they're taken to. It's not the rapture, because otherwise they wouldn't be, you know, taken to a place of death.
They'd be taken to heaven. Okay? Very good. Therefore, the ones left behind are indeed the righteous. Yes. Now, okay, yes. So let me sidestep over to Matthew 13, okay?
And I'm going to read a little bit here and show you something a little bit more interesting. Now, before I do that, there are two ages in the Bible, this age and the age to come. And this age, we have marriage, death, we have problems, temptations. And the age to come, no marriage.
We have everlasting life, the full revelation of it and everything. So there's two ages. Now, in the parable of the wheat and the tares, you know, do we tear up the tares? And it goes, no, lest you tear up the wheat also. Verse 30, allow both to go together until the harvest. And in the time of the harvest, I will say to the reapers, first gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up, but gather the wheat into my barn. So the harvest, at that time, the first ones gathered are the tares and those are the wicked. Now, when you go to Matthew, when Jesus interprets the parable, about 10 verses later, he says, the world is the, you know, is where the good seed and the bad seed are, and the good seed are the sons of the kingdom. The enemy who sowed the bad seeds, the tares, is the enemy. And the harvest is the end of the age.
That's 39. And the reapers are angels. So just as the tares are gathered and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age, the son of man will send forth his angels and gather out of his kingdom all stumbling blocks and those who commit lawlessness. Now, some interpret this to mean after the thousand year reign of Christ, that Jesus will take them away. And then the wicked, I mean, the good will be gathered.
But there's only one end of the age and one gathering of the people, one rapture, not two. So it's a problem for that position. And I'm just throwing that out there to make you think. Okay.
No, thank you. I actually embraced that position growing up in the PCA. And I just want to have this. So I think I should have told you that I wasn't here to argue it.
I wanted to hear a third party point of view. Well, wait a minute. You got me intrigued because I'm the only one I know who teaches that. And so you're in PCA church in America. I was a PCA pastor for a little while.
So I was an elder. And I just respect your teaching. And this is a topic I love to debate with people on a friendly terms.
It was only maybe five people in the world who in my life care to even talk about it, but it's kind of an interesting topic. And yeah, and it's not, as you well know, it's not the dispensational view, which is the most popular. Right.
It's the easy view. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, if I may tell you a quick story, I don't know if you have a lot of callers waiting, but when I was helping the youth program, I was on staff at a PCA church.
Okay. And I showed the movie Left Behind and being young in my faith, I was 19, actually, at the time. And one of the pastors came in and I said, what do you think of that movie? I showed it to the youth group. And he said, well, I don't think the elders would agree with the theology behind that movie. I thought that was just kind of funny. And that's when I thought, well, there's a different point of view.
And at that point I went on the search for what you just pretty much explained quite well. Could I ask another related question? Sure. Real fast, but just a little FYI trivia.
That was the movie that was shown at a church when I was 17 that caused me to want to know more about Jesus. And I walked up forward and I'm a Christian. Interesting. Okay. Which other question? That is interesting.
Yeah. Very quickly, now we're in Thessalonians and Paul is talking about how the dead in Christ will rise first. And then we who are left alive will meet the Lord in the air and be with Him forever. Stop.
Since the Bible now is silent in that passage. We got a break. So hold on and then we'll get back to it.
That's a good thing. I love that prick to be. Okay, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Then we'll get to Scott from Washington on Reformed Theology. We'll be right back. Please be tuned. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. All right, buddy. Welcome back to the show and the reactivate Tom.
I'll get back on with him. And just want to let you know that the month of December is matching funds month. So if you donate to us, whatever you donate will be doubled. Just giving you the heads up on it for the month of December. It really does help us out.
And if you're so inclined to do so, it's easy. Just go to karm.org forward slash donate. C-A-R-M dot O-R-G forward slash donate. Let's get back on the air with Tom. Tom, are you there?
I am Matt. Thanks for taking the second question. Quickly, in Thessalonians, Paul is talking about how the dead in Christ will rise first and then we who are alive in Christ will meet him in the air and be with him forever.
And then there's a full stop per se. And therefore the Bible or that passage is silent on where does everybody go? And the question is, does everybody go to heaven or does everybody come back to a new earth or the earth? May I have your opinion on that?
Sure. The chapter break I think is unfortunate because it relates it to the day of the Lord. And when you go to 2 Peter 3, 10, it says, the day of the Lord will come like a thief in which the new heavens and new earth are made.
The heavens are melted. So I see them as happening on the same day. So my view is this. This is my view. People disagree.
That's fine. That we're going to bring ourselves to self-destruction. Matthew 24, 24. If those days be not cut short, no flesh would be left. I believe that's a prophecy, a fulfillment, a counterfactual fulfillment actually of Genesis 2 17 where God says to Adam that you eat of the fruit, you're going to die. And all mankind is going to bring itself to death. And so I suspect at the end that what Jesus is going to do is come down. The kingdom of God is now a millennial and that he's going to take out of his kingdom the wicked and take them and destroy them. Now that might be in Armageddon because there's a verse in Revelation 16 that says three unclean spirits like frogs go out to gather them together for Armageddon.
So maybe that's what it is. I don't know. But we know from Luke 17 that the men taken are the people.
One in the field, one is taken, one's not. The ones who are taken are taken to a place of destruction and death. So it makes sense to connect them. That's that it's proof of anything if they go to Armageddon. And they're destroyed by the efforts that they were going to be using to try and war against the true people of God. And that during this time, maybe nukes, maybe plagues are going to come out and God's going to stop it because it's the last final ditch effort of the wicked and it'll lead to self-death, the destruction of mankind. And that God's going to stop it and say, see, I told you so.
A gigantic celestial told you so. So with that in mind, my view is that the rapture occurs, but the wicked are taken first to place a judgment. Then we are changed and we go to heaven with God, with Christ. The wicked are judged right there. New heavens and new earth are made.
And then things get really good after that. That's my short cue. Just real quick then, a meeting in the air that I think your view is then the believers with Jesus go back up, if you will, to heaven. Yep. That's where I hold. Uh-huh.
As opposed to, do you think it's cogent to think we sort of hover until the new earth is built and then go down back to the earth? I don't think so. I don't think so. No?
Okay. And the reason I don't think so is because there's three heavens and, uh, the heaven, the first heaven is the air, the clouds, the second is the stars, the moon, and the third is the dwelling place of God. Well, we know that Adam's sin affected the physical created order. So that would be the first and second levels. And so we assume it would be the second level. We know for fact it's the first. So if, uh, if we're in the first level, uh, in the new heavens, the earth, that's really problematic.
I think we're going to be with God where he is and ever does it get vaporized, remade, cleaned up. Okay. Okay. Well, thanks again. I'll, I'll let the next caller go and, uh, appreciate all you're doing. Thank you for sticking with the, uh, the word. I try. I try my best. All right, God bless. All right. That was interesting. Uh, I know I have an odd view.
I know that a lot, but I have reasons for it, you know, and, and, uh, I'm open to being, you know, being convinced of something else if they got it again. All right, let's get to Scott from Washington. Scott, welcome. You're on the air.
Good afternoon, Matt. How are ya? Hangin' in there, butter. Hangin' in there.
What do you got, man? Yeah. So, um, I was just wondering, uh, and this is in the context of Reformed theology alone, not, not anything else, but could you tell me the literal, as well as the practical difference between, um, compatibilism versus, you know, not compatibilism when it comes to Calvinism? Right, libertarianism. Um, libertarian free will is the view that the unbeliever is capable of this, of himself to be able to choose God, that he is at liberty to be able to do that. Libertarianism, I sort of meant the other way. Well, more like hyper-Calvinism, maybe. Um, but that's, you know, different thing.
Hyper-Calvinism is different. That's, that's, that's, you know, the, the, they're compatibilists, but they're whacked because they deny other aspects. But if you want, I can, I, you know, continue with compatibilism and discuss it, but I don't know. What do you want?
What do you got? Well, the reason, maybe this will help. So, um, you know, I'm a compatibilist, uh, good when it comes to, you know, God regenerating me and all that. And so basically there's, uh huh.
That's what it is. Yeah. For those who don't know, let me explain it that God's predestination and decrees are compatible with our free will choices that they both are compatible. That's what compatibilism is.
Libertarianism is anti-compatibilism. Okay. So go ahead. Yeah. So, so exactly. And so, um, you know, I, I belong to a Reformed church and there, I know there's at least one or two people at my church who, who, I see, I don't know the best term to call it, but they're not compatibilists. They're basically, I don't know, I don't know the term, um, libertarians.
That's sort of what I was, you know, yeah. I mean, just ask them. Okay.
Just ask them what they, what their view is. They, a lot of people just assume that, that, uh, human free will is just, it's all you need. It's just capable of, of, um, believing anything. It's just up to you to decide because, you know, you have the wisdom or not the wisdom.
It's just up to you. And that that's as far as they go. And they haven't thought, thought that through and realize, and haven't realized that there's problems with that, serious problems. And that is not what the scriptures teach. So just ask them, you know, what do you think it means and stuff like that? Not a big deal.
Yeah. Well, what, what do you, what would you say to the person who says we, we don't have a free will whatsoever? Well, then how can we be responsible for any decisions in our sins? If we don't have any free will, then you're saying we don't have any free will doesn't make any sense because it means you don't have any free will to say you don't have any free will. So it's not your free will saying it. So why should we trust you? But you're saying you don't have any free will. It doesn't make any sense.
That's equivalent to equivalent to materialism and physicalism, which is not a Christian worldview. Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's what I say. So, uh, so yeah.
Okay. Well that's basically it. I just, half of my question was just kind of what it's about. The other half was, is there a term for that? But I guess, uh, some call it semi-Pelagianism. There's a reference of semi-Pelagianism in that full Pelagianism is that a human being is born with no fallen nature at all. And that he or she becomes fallen when he or she first sins. That's a complete heresy. Uh, semi-Pelagianism is the view that we're just mostly dead or not completely, just mostly dead.
Okay. Miracle Max talked about that. And so, uh, the semi-Pelagian view also kind of works with what's called prevenient grace. Uh, that prevenient grace is the grace that comes before a decision where God graces you with grace and it enables you to be able to get to that place of being able to make a decision. You're kind of in a neutral place kind of, and so that's called prevenient grace.
I call it kindergarten theology because it makes no sense to say that, but I know a lot of intelligent people believe it. I just say, nope, it doesn't work. I'll tell you why. And I expose why it doesn't work, but that's that view. So sometimes people have combinations of those views and you just kind of work through them and they haven't even thought them out. A lot of times don't see how they relate or don't relate. So I'm just going to work with them.
Ask them. Okay. Okay. Well, good.
Yeah. Um, that is, that's all I got for you. All right, man. God bless buddy. All right.
All right. So why would I say prevenient grace is kindergarten theology? Because we have, just imagine this from that perspective, I'll exaggerate it just slightly to make the point. You have the view of semi-pilatianism that a bunch of people are out there. They're fallen, but they still have the ability to make free will choices, but there's sins affecting them. And so they might need a little help. So what God does is he, he, uh, gives them a grace. He is gracious to them.
He does something to them inside and it kind of makes them neutral. So now they're able to just kind of be that free will place. They can go, Hey, I think I'll choose God. Or, Hey, I think I won't choose God.
And that kind of works. It's called prevenient grace. The grace that comes before that enables someone to be able to make a free will choice for or against God. Now there's a problem here because, uh, first of all, um, does God not know what to do to somebody in order to get them to believe?
Well, of course he does. You just show his glory and they'll repent. That's what that's natural in the presence of God.
People are undone. They recognize their own sin. It's a natural byproduct of being the presence of the, of, uh, the Holy one. He's awesome. He's great.
He's fantastic. And so if you're going to be, uh, you know, saying that, well, prevenient grace, God wants to enable somebody kind of work it so that they can then choose. Well, then that, that means that God wants neutrality in a person.
Is that it? And so he wants to get them to a neutral place. Well, it's just up to them. This is humanist philosophy. It's saying we have to be able to make our true choices according to our consciousness. And so therefore what God does is he enables us to be neutral so that we can make the decision. And why does Bob believe in Frank does not because Bob was wiser. And why did Bob's free will enable him to believe in Frank did not because that's his free will. Oh, wait a minute. Why does it work like that?
Well, that's the way it is. It doesn't make any sense. They don't have those kinds of answers, but we do in reform theology. Well, in biblical theology, God grants that they have faith.
Look into 129. Jesus says, you can't come to me unless it's granted to you from the father. John six 65, as has a lot of people don't like that though. A lot of people don't like it that God is the one who gives faith and grants it to whom he desires.
No, no, no. That can't be true because Jesus is a blonde hair, blue eye, Caucasian surfer, dude, dressed in a woman's nightgown, standing at the door of your heart and asking permission for you to let them in. Cause it's up to you. Humanist philosophy again, people naturally want to be in a place of God making their own choices for what is right and wrong.
And it's going to be me who decides. And how do I know that it has to be me who decides because I decided it has to be me who decides. They don't get that out of scripture. They don't get out of scripture. They get it out of themselves because the scripture doesn't say it's just up to you. It says it's up to God. You cannot come to me unless it's granted to you from the father. John 6 65, Jesus says, that's it. And there's so many verses like that, but I'm just saying that's it. And so, uh, I teach the theology that makes people upset, uh, because it's right out of scripture and a lot of people don't believe it. Oh, get you to think we're out of time and may the Lord bless you today is Friday.
So you can have a good weekend. I hope, and you go to church and tithe at the church and stuff like that. And just to remind you that, um, uh, this is matching funds drive here at the CARM intergalactic headquarters that if you want to support us, you can just go to carm.org, C a R M dot O R G forward slash, donate all the information you need right there. And, uh, wherever you donate will be doubled.
We have a matching funds drive. It'll just be doubled and thank you very much. May the Lord bless you. And by his grace, we're back on there on Monday. I hope you have a great evening. Oh, and by the way, one last thing, I'm going to be in a debate tonight in about an hour or so. And if you want to find out where that is, just go to carm.org forward slash debate, and it'll take you to the page and then you can see for tonight. God bless everybody. I'm out of here. Another program powered by the truth network.
Whisper: medium.en / 2024-12-08 12:25:40 / 2024-12-08 12:45:10 / 20