Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at KARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Francis taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick live.

Today's date is August 12th, 2024, for the podcasters and the newbies out there and all that kind of stuff. I was off all last week. And I'll give you a brief rundown on what happened.

Not a big deal. It was fun. And I took a week off from radio and did some stuff. But if you want, you can give me a call.

All you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. And I want to hear from you. So everything should be working.

Don't know why everything should be working anyway. So I was out last week and did a little kind of a tour. Do you guys remember who Luke is? And he's doing the ministry work in the Grand Canyon area. So the board of directors and we all met down there. And we went on a tour, did a couple of things, went to the crater. The crater that is, you know, the Meteor Crater.

And hold on one sec. We did the Meteor Crater. It was great.

I think it's big. And had a good time there. We saw the Grand Canyon. We did a lot of stuff there. And then we saw some Indian ruins, like 800 years old, out in the desert. Really interesting.

And so then, get this, get this. We went and saw Laura. She worked with us. We saw her in Utah. And then we went to Bill McKeever's place for the Mormonism Research Ministry. The Mormonism Research Center of Utah or something like that.

Utah Christian Research Center. And Sandra Tanner was there. And so I got to say hi to Sandra.

I haven't seen her for a while. So it was great. And then, then we are moving back. We're coming back on the freeway. We're driving on the freeway.

We stopped, grabbed a little something to eat and gas. And we're coming back over the, this is for real, coming back over the ramp. And Dave, who's driving, says, roll over. There's a car accident. And so we got onto the on-ramp and this car, smoke, not smoke but dust and all this stuff. This thing was mangled.

We don't know how many times it rolled, like three times or something like that. And so we got out of the car. I was the first one on scene.

Got there. Another guy showed up. We started yanking on the doors and getting people out of the, but we didn't get them out.

We just were able to make sure that the car wasn't going to burst into flames and all that kind of stuff. And got the names of the people. And then the police came. The highway patrol came.

And then the paramedics came. And then we said, okay, see ya. And that was it.

They took a report from one of them, one of us. And that was it. So that was pretty exciting. Pretty exciting time that we did.

And it was good. A lot of fun. So, you know, the funny thing is, a lot of times when people are in situations like that, they don't do anything. They don't run.

They don't run to the problem. I do that. I run right to a problem. If there's an accident, I am there so fast. I believe in just getting as fast as you can.

What gets me is how many times people just stand there and look. What do we do? You run towards it.

You run towards the problem. And so we got there and we got that going. So anyway, oh, I know what I've got to fix. I've got to fix this right here. Hold on one sec. I've got so many things going on.

So there you go. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call. You can also email me at info at karm.org. Info at karm.org.

Real easy to do. Just put in the subject line, radio comment, radio question, and we can get to you. All right. Let's get on the air with Janet from Raleigh, North Carolina. Janet, welcome. You're on the air.

Thank you very much. I just have a quick question. I want to know, is a pastor also supposed to be the husband of one wife? Well, yes, normatively speaking. But that means in the context, it's not polygamy. But what if you have a pastor who's married and she passes away? Well, he's not married anymore, so he's not an elder man of one wife.

That's not what's going on there. So it means that no polygamy. And so, yeah, he's supposed to have one wife unless she passes away or he never gets married. The follow-up would be, what if a pastor gets a divorce?

Depends on the grounds. So some people would automatically say any pastor who's divorced is automatically disqualified, and I disagree. God himself divorced Israel, issued a writ of divorce out of Hosea, I believe it was.

And so it's not automatically a syndicate of divorce. So let's say that a husband-wife team, he's pastoring, she's just helping. And let's just say she commits adultery and won't repent. Let's just say he finds out later that she abandoned the faith.

Things happen, OK? And that she will not repent, and she divorces him. And he's willing to work on it. He's trying to do everything right.

He's being patient, kind, forgiving. And she just refuses. And then she leaves him, then he's not under obligation, as the scripture says.

He's free. And personally, I would have no problem with a man who's divorced in such a situation to be a pastor again, because he did nothing wrong. And he was wronged. And she is the one who did everything wrong, et cetera, in those kind of circumstances.

Well, let me ask you this. How obligated is the pastor in those situations to disclosing information to the congregation about that divorce, or not? Absolutely, he should. Absolutely. Absolutely, he should.

Yes. Because it just depends a lot of stuff, too. Let's just say, for example, he married someone when he was 21, and they got a divorce when he was 22. They were both atheists.

And now he becomes a pastor at 50, he's been a Christian for 20 years. Is it necessary? Well, in the interview, let the elders know, this is what happened when I was back then, and they go, OK. And you could let the congregation know, or you don't have to. But I think it's generally a better idea to do that. Just let the congregation know what your situation was, what your history was, and that's a good idea. OK, yeah, I was just wondering, I was just like, OK, I wonder if there was a red flag or not, but OK, well, that makes sense. Let's say the pastor and they got a divorce, because they just didn't get along anymore. That's not grounds.

Then he's disqualified. That's what I'm thinking, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, OK, let me see. I could see my wife getting rid of me, because of the ugly I'm getting in my old age, and that plus, apparently, she says a little more irritating.

And I've noticed she's rubbing her forehead a lot more frequently around me. So I can see, there might be an exception in there in the Greek. I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the final thing is, I want to recap. So you do say that the pastor should disclose to the congregation the reason why he got that divorce? If he is divorced, it becomes knowledge, absolutely, he should.

I think he should anyway. When a person is interviewed for pastorate, he should disclose every single thing to the elders, everything, everything that is related to anything, within reason. So he married a girl to keep her in the United States when he was younger. He was bankrupt, whatever it is. He had a child out of wedlock when he was 20, whatever it might be. And he's repented, all that's before the cross.

He's been a Christian man walking with the Lord for many years. And all that would have to be disclosed, all of it should be. So there's no surprises. OK, OK. Well, great. Thank you so much, man. I appreciate it. OK, you're welcome. Have a good rest of your day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, good evening. OK, you too. Thanks. All right, bye. All right. All right, for those of you who want to give me a call, we have wide open lines, 8772072276. I'm back in the studio.

Took a week off. And today's date is August 12, 2024 for the people who might be listening. So let's see, there's so many things to talk about. Some stuff going on with the CARM website. We're working on things.

The board of directors and I, we just had a staff meeting, board of directors meeting yesterday. And we are going to be doing some changes on some things. I know that there's some issues.

If you're having something, well, this is what I'm going to ask. If you're having any issues with the site in any context, email us at info.com.org. What we're going to be doing here pretty soon is we're going to be having a list of things we're just going to jump on. And we need to have as much information problems, like the forums aren't working right, the schools are having a problem logging in, or whatever it might be. Or the site was down once, or whatever.

This doesn't fit nicely on a phone, on this article isn't good. This is the kind of stuff that we need. So if you are on whatever it is on CARM, the website, and something isn't right that you don't think is right, just email it to us.

And you have to be more specific, too. Sometimes people say, the link wasn't working. We've got 50,000 links.

Well, OK, thank you. We just delete that one. But if they say something like, on the article, what is the Trinity, there's a link to an article, and that article is a broken link. Then what we do is we go to that article, and we go to that URL, we go look, we click, oh, there, that thing is broken.

Maybe the link to another article changed and got broken, and that's the kind of stuff we do. Or someone might say, on the phone, this one article doesn't render properly. That's exactly the kind of stuff we need.

Or you had trouble with this, you had trouble with that. We need to know. So if you are so inclined to do something like that, we definitely want to know, and all you've got to do is send any kind of information to info at karm.org. And, since we have nobody waiting on the calls right now, just let you guys know that we keep on the air. We're able to stay on the air by your support. So if you like what you hear, you enjoy the answers, you maybe don't, but you are intrigued, then maybe you might want to consider supporting us. That's how we stay on the air. And I want to thank so many people out there in the Carolinas who are supporting us. I just want to say thank you.

We really appreciate it. My wife is one who keeps a record. She doesn't tell me, because I ask her not to. I don't want to know who donates how much what.

I'm not interested in that. I just want to treat everybody the same. And I just talk to people, and she says, call these people, say thanks, and I'll do that, and just say thanks, and things like this. And so I just want to say thank you for all those of you who are supporting this ministry. We do stay on the air by your support. And once again, I just want to say that if you have any issues with the site in any way, if you're inclined, just email us, info at karm.org, and stay where the problem is. And be specific, because it does help.

A lot of times people think they just assume, we understand in every detail what they're saying, but we have thousands and thousands of articles and situations. We've got to check them out. Let's get to Jermaine from California. Welcome. You're on the air. Oh, hi, man. Hey, how you doing? Doing pretty well.

Welcome back. So I just had a question about how is it possible God, I guess, gives different answers for the same situations. I didn't phrase my question properly, but what I really wanted to get at is, I guess, how do two believers see things so differently on the same issue, and for me and some family and friends, back during the COVID times, we had debates over who should do well with their bodies. And we all prayed, and even my wife and I, but just peacefully, but we all came to different conclusions. And what kind of triggered this was I saw Dr. Fauci had something where he came down positive with COVID again, and he said he had six vaccinations. And it triggered another conversation.

So I was just wondering, is there anything in scripture that kind of points to that? Because we're all concerned. We've got a break coming up. Let's get back to the break. We'll talk about this, and then see if you can formulate your question a little bit differently. And then we'll talk.

It'll be interesting. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. All right, and welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, we have two open lines.

877-207-2276. Let's get back on with Jermaine. All right, Jermaine, we're back on the air. OK. Yeah, I think I got it composed now. So I guess, is there any scriptural backing for God giving distinguishing answers in prayer on the same subject? And I already laid out what myself, my family, my friends, we all prayed, all came up with different conclusions. And so far, it worked for everyone. Everyone who decided to make a medical decision, they were OK with it. Some of them, and the ones who decided not to, they were OK. But we all came to the same conclusions that our prayers were answered, and we're all fine with it. So I just wanted to hear your take on that. Yes, God can give different answers on the same topic to different people for different reasons. You could have someone who's older, someone who's younger, someone who's less capable, more capable, someone who is mentally challenged, not mentally challenged.

And so there are all kinds of variables that come into play. So if we're talking about the COVID shot, my wife and I refuse to get it. We would not do it. And to this day, we've not had it.

But I know people who've had it. OK, that's their business. And so if all of us are praying, what should we do? God often does not give us a direct answer. He wants us to use wisdom. And then we live with our decisions because we're made in the image of God. We represent him, so to speak, in our life. We have freedom, responsibility, and we're to act accordingly. So this is the kind of thing that's going on. And like I said, we had friends who took the shot, the jab, and others who did not. OK, and that's just their choice. Make sense? That's perfect sense. My wife and I prayed also.

That's my number one concern. And she came to the same conclusion where she decided to a couple years ago. She didn't give me boosters, thankfully. But she did tell you, but she said something tells her that I shouldn't do it. And I said, hey, that's the same feeling I had. So I'm not doing it.

And we're more than happy with that. So maybe the spirit was saying, you shouldn't take it because your particular body might react negatively, blah, blah, blah. And hers wouldn't. Who knows? We just don't know. Yeah, I guess you're right.

Who knows? And I had already had it originally, anyway. So I wasn't really concerned. But yeah, thank you, Mary. I appreciate that. OK.

Sounds good, buddy. Well, God bless. All right, God bless. Bye-bye. All right. OK, bye.

All right. Hey, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to George from North Carolina.

George, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. How are you doing? Doing all right. Hanging in there, man.

What do you got, buddy? OK, so as far as I can read in my Bible, it makes no provisions for abortion. And from what I can read, that God considers you a person from the moment of conception. I had a pastor, or have a pastor, that is saying, well, what about if your daughter got raped by someone and got pregnant?

You don't feel like there could be a need for an abortion. A pastor said this? The pastor said that? Yeah, he said, you don't think.

Hold on, hold on, hold on. He said, you don't think. A pastor said that he was inclined it was justified under that condition?

Yeah. God slapped him upside the head. Yeah, and I really have a bad problem with that, because in my reading in the Bible, I mean, he makes it like you had on your collar before. He makes a provision for divorce. And I feel like if there was a provision for an abortion, that he would have mentioned it. I mean, he knew it was going to be an issue.

I mean, I don't feel like he would have left it up for. Yeah, let's talk about this, the pastor saying, it's OK under that condition. So in other words, something bad happened to the woman, so let's kill the baby now. That justifies killing it. It's a human life. And so we don't have that right to take that life of the child. Well, my argument was to him, if you had a man that was a burn victim, and he was burnt completely from one end to the other, you know he's going to die.

Are you able to put him out of his misery? And the answer is obviously no. Yeah, but let's talk about the stick. I get you what you're saying, but the issue here is a woman who's pregnant, because there's so many fallacious and foul arguments that are being given. Now, this one about, I don't like to use the word, because the R word, because there might be children listening.

I don't want, you know. So in that situation, my wife and I discussed this, as a matter of fact. And if that had happened to her, and she became pregnant, that child belongs to us from then on. We would raise that child as our own, without any difference. It wouldn't make a difference, because it's not the fault of the child. And the perpetrator needs to be punished, as it was in the Bible, he be punished severely. So the only condition that seems to be potentially justifiable for an abortion is if it's a fact, and say two or three doctors all agree, that the pregnancy will kill both the child and the mother.

This is the area where we can discuss protection, because if you lose both or lose one, and you can have more children later on, this is one of the areas of discussion. But no, we are not to kill the life of the unborn for our convenience sake. Because evil happens in the world, but doesn't mean it's OK when something bad happens to us, we can kill somebody else, because it would happen to us. That's not justifiable, OK? Well, I mean, that's a terrible situation for it to come about in that way. But I mean, you can't trust the Lord that he's, I mean, you could be killing one of the biggest prophets that would ever hit the face of the Earth, even in that situation. Yeah.

Yes, and we need to be careful, we need to be faced with it. Some people will say, well, what about if you know that the baby is going to die, it's deformed, then it wouldn't have been aborted. And my wife and I faced this very issue. And we had a son, holoprosencephaly is what he had, and they said he's going to die when he's born. And he did, in our arms. And they offered that abortion. My wife just said immediately, don't bring it up again, we're not doing that. My wife's a good woman, except for her taste in men, she's a good woman.

And I was so proud of her, man. And so people need, we understand, we have to defend the helpless, not kill them for our convenience. This is the difference between those who, the womb scrapers, the ones who want to kill the babies in the womb, the abortionists, the pro-choicers, and all this kind of stuff. They want to kill the life of the baby in the womb for their own convenience, or because it's inconvenient, whatever reason it is. Now, I got to say something here, but this is important. I know a lot of people have had abortions who are listening to this show. I want you to understand something.

Go read my article on my experience with that on Carm. Okay, before Christian. Now look, I'm gonna tell you something. You could be forgiven in Jesus Christ. All of our sins are forgiven in Jesus Christ. You put your trust in him, he will wipe it away.

It will be gone. Amen. Trust in Jesus, no matter what your past is. I know a lot of people who've had that kind of past.

They're believers, I don't judge them, I don't say anything, that's how it is. We move on. The Lord Jesus Christ, his blood is so powerful, it will cleanse us. Put your hope in him. Put your hope in him. All right, brother, there's the music. Thank you, sir. All right, man, God bless, George.

Good call. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. We have three open lines. 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. Let's get to Reggie from South Carolina. Welcome, you're on the air. Reggie, are you there?

Reggie. I'm waiting. Can you hear me? Now we hear you, now we hear you. Okay, what do you got, buddy?

Okay, I'm sorry. My question is a very loaded question, so I appreciate your patience and understanding. So as a fellow believer, I believe in the same Jesus that a lot of conservative Christians say they believe in, but I have a very hard time understanding some of the language that's used when they say, like, our America and our rights and our heritage. And the reason why I have problems and trouble understanding the same language is because I'm African American.

And some of the words that are used when they say our America and things like that, it doesn't always feel as inclusive to mean our America. Does that make sense? Nope. What's your question? You had a question. Yeah, the question I'm having is, how can I convey to my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ in Christ, how do I convey to them how I feel as an African American and trying to preserve the same Christian rights and beliefs together, instead of... You're talking about politics here? Oh, I get so hard at this. About who to vote for and stuff like that? Yeah, yeah.

It's because it doesn't... Everything is not so black and white. Yes, that's true. What I would do is go to the CARM website, my website, and look up the history of the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party is the party of pro-slavery, pro-Jim Crow laws, pro-homosexuality, pro-socialism. It is an ungodly, almost a terrorist kind of an organizational group.

It is coming into our country, well, it's been in for a long time, and it's just horrible. I don't understand how any true Christian who knows what Christianity teaches and knows what the Democratic Party is can therefore be a Democrat. I don't understand how that is possible. And Republicans aren't hardly any better. I actually agree with that. I actually agree with that. Like I said, the hard part to convey is the certain language that is used by Republicans saying, you know, our America. And maybe it's just my misunderstanding when they say our America, they're including me as well. It's just not, it doesn't feel inclusive. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think so. You know, I'm a white guy, so I don't really get aware of all the stuff that the minorities, so to speak, have to experience and they've told me.

But I've also seen video. That's the thing that I think that's what's dividing us so bad. No, no, no, no, no. What's dividing us is the Democrats, the leftist policies. This is a system that you divide the nation racially and or economically, and you cause them to have dissension and fighting among the ranks.

It's a communist method used to help gain control of a country. The Democratic Party is, in my opinion, the party that the Antichrist would belong to. He might even go Republican, but definitely he wants the stuff that the Democratic Party wants. Okay, so it's bad. And I'm not Republican either.

I don't believe in either one of those. So- Right, the Republican policies line up more with the scriptures than the Democrats do. Yeah, Republicans are closer to scripture. Right, right. But there's independent parties too, which are even closer still.

So I don't register as a Democrat or Republican. And I think Republicans are bad and Democrats are really bad. That's my opinion. Right.

Yeah, but- And I don't know what's gonna happen with Trump. Yeah, I understand and agree. Yeah.

No, no, I agree. It's just, I think the question, and it's so hard to ask the question, but it's how do we as believers come together to say, yes, I understand what you're saying as a, you know, Caucasian American, and then vice versa, I understand what you're saying as an African American, but how do we convey that to believers who have the same language? Does that make sense?

No, I don't do by have the same language. So you're talking about, I'm not sure what you're talking about, but the idea here is that I've seen videos of African Americans talking about racism, and so many of them say, I haven't experienced any of it. They go from here to there and they don't care.

And, but I know that does happen. Okay, there's racists everywhere. There's racists in blacks, whites, browns.

There's racism everywhere. But what we have to do as Christians is focus, we have to focus on Jesus Christ. See, Jesus is the one who redeems us.

Jesus is God in flesh. We aren't to look at color. We're to look, or size, or gender.

We're to look at souls who are either in Christ or outside of Christ. What the enemy wants to do is divide us over the issues that cause emotional upheaval. And when that happens, then irrationality follows. So if racism, for example, homosexuality, all this crud, abortion, all this stuff that's so emotionally laden, and the left gets the ability or has the ability to foment the flames of discord in our society, that's what the enemies of our country want. It's exactly what they want.

And they don't preach unity. Just as Candace Owens, who I think Candace Owens is great, and they'll ask her a question. And it's obviously the people asking questions are racist because she's black. So they ask a question about blackness. She goes, why are you asking me this?

Because I'm black? You know, and she's good. Oh man, she's good. Yes, sir, I appreciate your answer and your opinions. I really appreciate it, thank you. Well, good, man, all right. Well, God bless. All right. Yeah, God bless you too, thank you.

You too. You know, I know there's a lot of people who have a lot of strong opinions about politics. And I saw a meme on Facebook the other day where it said, a meme basically said, nobody who's preaching should be preaching about politics from the pulpit.

And I actually wrote, I strongly disagree with that. You cannot avoid politics. Jesus is Lord over every part of our lives. And even what we vote for, who we vote for, Jesus is Lord even in those things.

The pastor should, should occasionally when necessary, be discussing politics from the pulpit. I would have no problem saying for the pulpit in a sermon saying, you cannot vote for any candidate. You ought not vote for any candidate that is for killing the unborn, that is for homosexuality, LGBTQ movement. You can't vote for them because it's ungodly.

It's against the scriptures. And if you support them, then you're giving a thumbs up and approval to their actions or immoral actions. And when some people come back and say, well, what do you say if there's a little bit of this and a lot of that issue?

It gets difficult. But people should be knowing what the issues are. Christians should be voting as a block for the most godly candidate they can find.

That's what should be happening. But because Christians are so untrained, uneducated, ill-equipped, they don't know what's going on and their church is all over the place. They're just giving them babysit theology, hammock theology and coochie coochie coo and just pablum instead of meat that the Christian church is not growing and being the force for good and the light that is supposed to be in this country and in the rest of the world.

No, no, no, no. They're too busy about pre-tribulation rapture concerns and what their bank account's gonna be. And how's that gonna go on the day of judgment? Well, you see, Lord, I didn't wanna get down below $50,000 in my bank account. Yeah, I know the people, you know, they want me. But I just needed that money. I need to have my stocks. I need to have that nice car. I need to have this.

I need to have, I need, I, I, me, me, I, me. And how's that gonna go on the day of judgment? I'm not saying don't have nice things. I'm saying that's fine, you can have nice things. But you need to know that those nice things are in service of God ultimately. Now, if you need to have a nice, reliable car, get a nice, reliable car. But that's not the goal of your life.

The goal of your life should be the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ. And those other peripherals, those are things you can use for his glory. And sometimes he blesses us with a little bit of comfort, and that's okay too. I'm just saying. You know? All right, let's go to Jason from Utah.

I think we got a break coming up here in a second. But Jason, what do you got, buddy? Hey, Matt. I was just wondering if you could break down the seeming contradiction between John 6, 40-something-ish about anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.

And then in John 14, I might have these mixed up where it says that no one has seen the Father except the one who is from God. Right. I guess. Yeah, that's easy. A few chapters apart, yeah. Well, I got a break coming up here, so I can start.

But I'll probably have to redo it after the break. This is a particular topic I've studied for many years, and so I know it pretty well. There's a lot of verses in there where John 1, 18, for example, no one's seen God at any time. The only begotten God in the wisdom of the Father, he has explained him. John 6, 46, Jesus says, not that anyone has seen the Father except the one from God.

He has seen the Father. Now when we get back, I'll go over this again. I'll explain a bunch of stuff, okay?

We'll make it make sense, it's not hard at all. All right, hey folks, hold on. We'll be right back after these messages.

You can give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show.

Let's get back on the air with Jason from Utah. Are you there? You there, Jason?

All right. Yep. So you asked about John 14, 6, I'm the way, the truth, and the life. Oh, that's John 14, 6. Who has seen me? John has seen me has seen the Father, right?

Right? Yeah, I think it's John 14, 8, or 9, and then John 6, 40 something. They seem to say opposite things.

Well, yes and no. So when you go to, for example, in Hebrews 1, he, Jesus, is the radiance of his glory and the exact representation of his nature. And he upholds all things by the word of his power. So Jesus is the representation.

The Greek word is karekter. And it means an imprint, a reflection of, it's a physical kind of a thing usually, though. And so that's what he is in relation to the Father. Now, because Jesus is divine, the Father is divine, and the Father cannot be seen because he dwells in unapproachable light whom no man has seen or can see.

That's 1 Timothy 6, 16. So Jesus is representing the Father so specifically, so beautifully, that it could be said that to see him is to see the Father. So it's like a representation, a representative.

And so if Elon Musk, for example, gave all authority to someone to represent Elon at a certain business dealing, to see that person is essentially the same as seeing Elon. Even though they understand it's not the exact same person, but because the representation is so precise, the authority, et cetera, to say that, that's kind of an analogy. But Jesus is even more so because he shares in the divine essence, which the Father shares in and the Holy Spirit shares in. So there's that indwelling, but yet the distinction of the persons is there. And so Jesus is not the Father, and yet he represents the Father so perfectly, so beautifully, that he can say, if you see me, you've seen the Father.

That's as close as you're going to get. But when they see God in the Old Testament, I give you lots of references for that, they're never seeing God the Father. They're seeing the pre-incarnate Christ. Jesus says in John 6, 46, not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who's from God, he has seen the Father. So what Jesus is saying is that the Father has never been seen, nor can he be seen according to Paul in 1 Timothy 6, 16, which is why Mormonism is proven false by this. In Mormonism, Joseph Smith, the first vision, saw God the Father.

The Bible says he can't be seen. When they see God in the Old Testament, it's always the pre-incarnate Christ. And so that's what's going on overall. Does that help?

Yeah. And then I guess for John 6, 46, following where it says no one has seen the Father except for he who is from God or of God, or I don't remember the exact count for it, who would that be referring to? To himself. So it literally says except the one who is from God, the one being from God. So who is that who is from God? That's Jesus, obviously. He has seen the Father. That would be the pre-incarnate Christ because, and if we go to 1 Timothy 6, 16, if we read the context, verse 14, excuse me, that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which he will bring about at the proper time.

He who is the blessed and the only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, who no man has seen or can see. Well, they've seen Jesus. So it's not talking about Jesus. And the Holy Spirit always appears in wind or flame or something like that. So this is the Father that cannot be seen, period, cannot be. Jesus is the one who represents him so precisely, Hebrews 1-3, that to say, he could say, you see me? You've seen the Father. That's what it's like.

That's what's going on. He's not the Father because he prays to the Father and he speaks to the Father. There is no contradiction. It's just an understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity.

One God in three distinct, simultaneous, co-eternal persons. The Son represents the Godhead so precisely and specifically the Father so specifically and perfectly that he could say, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father. And it's a representation that he's talking about, out of Hebrews 1-3. But we see the distinction where Jesus prays to the Father, Luke 22-42. So he's not the Father. So we understand what's going on.

Okay. So God's seen in the Old Testament, never God the Father. Jesus says, you've seen me, you've seen the Father because he represents the Father so specifically.

No one can see him. And he says so in John 6-46. Then you go, oh, it all makes sense now. Okay. Gotcha. Thank you.

That helps. All right. You got any more questions?

Nothing, nothing right now, but thank you. All right. Are you a Mormon? No. No. Okay.

No, just reading my Bible and just being confused page after page, it seems like there's a lot of information to take in. Okay. I've got a comment on what you just said. You're getting confused a lot. That's very good.

It's very good because it means you're seeing and you're learning and you have more to learn. The Bible can be understood on a low level, medium and deep level. And I remember the same thing happened to me many, many years ago.

I'd read the Bible and go, man, this is confusing because I really started paying attention to details. And what you brought up is a good example. And then when I learned, oh, it's not confusing.

I just didn't understand. And it's a good thing. That means you will be learning and you'll be learning a lot more. Just keep studying. And when it opens up, oh, it's wonderful. Okay.

Yeah, it's definitely been lightning, but definitely got a long ways to go. I appreciate your help. Sure. No problem, man. Keep reading and keep calling up and asking questions. All right. We have a lot of information on the CARM website too.

So there's a lot of stuff on Bible difficulties and all kinds of stuff there. All right. I'll talk to you next time. All right, man. God bless. All right. Let's see. The next longest waiting person is Elijah from Pennsylvania.

Elijah. Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, man. How you doing? Doing all right. Hanging in there, man.

What do you got, buddy? My question is out of Isaiah 56, one through eight. I watched a debate, I think it was maybe a month ago, between Sean Griffin and somebody else about, I'll be under the law today. And he brought this up because he says that these verses are in an end time context when the Lord returns to the earth. And he says that this verse proves that the law of God has not been done away with, because if I remember correctly, because it's been so long since I've seen that debate, but I think his main argument was out of verse eight, verse seven, because it says, their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar, for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.

And then in one of the earlier verses, it talks about how God is going to come on his holy mountain. Yeah, I know who this guy is. And he couldn't argue his way out of a wet paper bag that had been riddled by a 50 caliber machine gun that was greased and had a chain pulling him out with a neon sign saying, go this way.

All right. So he's not a good arguer. He's not a good thinker. Now if I have had discussions with him before and it's like, are you serious? So what he's saying is that the Old Testament law is still applicable and that we are obligated to keep that law in order to be justified. There's lots of ways to tackle this. One is to say, well, are you doing it all?

And he says, he's trying, then you're not doing it. Because the standard out of Deuteronomy 27, 26 is perfection. That's quoted by Paul in Galatians 3, 10. And there's lots of ways.

I can go through all kinds of stuff. And so he's not doing the law and those who are under the law are under a curse. That's what it says. For as many who are under the law are under a curse, okay? You go to Galatians 5 talks about this. Galatians 3 talks about this.

That's one thing. If you want to say the Old Testament law is still necessary, well, does he go to the temple and offer sacrifices, blood sacrifices? If he says, no, you don't have to do that because Jesus is done, well, then you don't have to keep all the law, do you? Just the parts that you say we've got to keep, which ones we have to keep in order to be right with God.

And I've done this before with him. Give me a list of the things you've got to do to keep yourself right with the infinitely holy God. And I write them out, you know? You know, be honest, don't lie, whatever it might be. Don't commit adultery, keep praying, read your Bible, whatever it might be.

I go, well, how is it working out for you? You know? And they always, people like this always just inflate their own ability, well, you know, I'm able to keep most of these, my sincerity is good enough before God. God understands how I am because, you know, he wouldn't ask us to do something that we couldn't do now, would he? So therefore, whatever God says, I can do, I can keep all that stuff. And so therefore, yeah, I'm doing okay, but it's by his grace, by his grace, I'm doing this. It's okay. I'm just letting you know.

But because they actually think that they can please God by their efforts, what foolishness that through their own efforts, had their sins forgiven or contributed to his grace. Oh, just amazing to me anyway. Yep. And if you, and if you ask him, if you ask him that question you said earlier about, about does he do sacrifices now, he'll tell you that he doesn't have to, because he'll say that he believes that the book of Hebrews, I think is what chapter two teaches that Jesus is up in heaven doing sacrifices daily for us right now because his atonement on the cross wasn't good enough. So you could say John 1930, he said it was finished. Was it finished at the cross?

See what he says. You can also go to Colossians 2 14, which says our sin debt was canceled at the cross. It's not canceled when you believe, believe it or not. This throws a lot of Christians.

What? No, you're justified when you believe the sin that's canceled when Jesus was crucified. That's a very, very profound statement. And for amateur fake theologians like that guy, he doesn't know what to do with this kind of stuff. You can tell everyone have much respect for him because he's a false teacher. Okay.

And he goes around saying he knows what he, what he wants and he tries to get others to be under the law. So when people talk like that, I just ask them, what things have you got to do? What things have you got to do to, uh, to keep yourself right with the infinitely holy God? Are you being good enough? And if they say, well, I'm trying, I, are you being good enough? It's not, I didn't ask you for trying. Are you being good enough? Well, I'm trying. I didn't ask you for trying. Are you being good enough?

And sometimes they'll say, well, yes, then I'll say, so you, you're telling me then that you're keeping the law on the same level as Jesus. Cause he's the standard, not you. Are you doing it as well as he is? And they say, well, no, but I'm trying also. You're failing. Aren't you?

Cause God says, love the Lord. You've got with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. Are you doing that with all I bet you are? No, you're not. Oh, then you're condemned by your own law.

That's how you got to go with them. All right. I'll probably call you tomorrow about, about, Exodus 33 and the angel of the Lord. Oh, that's easy. Sure. Exodus 33, 11. Yeah.

You can talk about that and, uh, something new in Exodus 33, 20, Exodus 6, 2, and 3, Numbers 24, 9 through 8. All right, buddy. I got to go.

There's a break. All right. Okay. Have a good one. Okay. Hey folks, out of time. God bless you by his grace. Back on here tomorrow. Talk to you then. See you. Another program powered by the truth network.