Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live! Francis taking her calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Welcome to the show! Hope you're going to have a good time listening, and if you're interested in talking to me and raising a question or a comment, the phone number is 877-207-2276. If you want to participate in the chat, it's easy.

Just go to rumble.com forward slash MattSlickLive, all one word, and you'll get right there and you can join in. Usually we have 60-70 people watching, 70-80 people join in. It's a nice little fellowship there. You can always check that out. If you are new to the show, this is just a Christian apologetics show, answering questions about Christianity, secularism, evolution, UFOs, Baha'i, Islam, Christian signs, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, just so much.

We get into so many topics and discuss various issues. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. If you want to email me, you can do that instead.

Just info at karme dot org, info at karme dot org. All right, I think that's it. Pretty easy. All right, let's just jump on the phone. Let's get to Ron from Wake Forest, North Carolina. Ron, welcome. You're on the air.

Yes, sir. I've got a question. I'm confused about the first part of the sixth chapter of Genesis when he talks about the sons of God. I've heard different things.

How do you respond to that one? Well, I believe the sons of God were the angels, the fallen angels. The term sons of God, let's see, sons of God.

In the Old Testament, we go there, it occurs in Genesis 6, 2, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men were beautiful. And then also, then the sons of God came into the daughters of men at Genesis 6, 4. And then it also occurs, in the book of Job, now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan came up with them. And then in Job 2, 1, the sons of God came to present themselves to the Lord. This is Job 38, 7, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted with joy.

And that can go on. And the sons of God is used in the New Testament in a different sense, though. And so in the Old Testament, it certainly seems to be the angelic realm. So when it talks about the sons of God coming down and having relations with women, that's what it looks like. Okay. I'm going to do quite a bit more.

That's probably what the Nephilim were, okay? Why? Yes, sir.

Okay. Like I said, I've heard different things about it. I wanted to make sure when I study it what it's talking about.

Well, how about this, if I explain a little bit of stuff, because we've got nobody waiting right now. So it says that the sons of God, right, came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. They were mighty men of old. And then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was greater than the earth. And the Lord was going to blot everybody out. And then it says in verse 9 of Genesis 6, it says, These are the records of the generations of Noah, Noah's righteous man, blameless in his... Now the NSB says time, but another rendition is generations, blameless or pure, undefiled in his generations, his ancestry. So one of the theories associated with this is that Noah was not part of the angelic plan to corrupt the messianic line. And so it looks like the demonic horde did what it did to destroy the messianic line. And so God got rid of them. And then one of the theories is that in the flood, those half-breeds are the ones that were released into the spiritual realm, whatever you want to call it, and then want to inhabit human bodies. And so are the demons different than the fallen angels?

This is just one of the theories that goes around. Now what's interesting is that it was the days of Noah. Social would be the days of the coming of the Son of Man. So there's a lot of things to connect with this. I don't want to get too deep, but what's interesting is I'll go to Daniel 2.43, and I'll read something.

And I'll go to Jude. Well, this is the prophecy through the vision of the statue of Nebuchadnezzar and his vision, gold, silver, bronze, and then iron mixed with clay at the feet. And these are times, periods of time. And so the clay and the iron mixed in the feet is supposed to be the end times. A lot of commentators, interpreters say that. Well, check this out in Daniel 2.43. And in that you saw the iron mixed with common clay. They will combine with one another in the seat of men.

But they will not adhere to one another even as iron does not combine with pottery. So there's some linguistic evidence here that what is going on is that the they that combines with the seat of men are not people. And it seems to be the case there linguistically. And then also when you go to Matthew 24, Luke 17, that's what's in the days of Noah, so shall it be the days of the coming of men, etc. And so two men in the field of one is taken, one is left. Well, most people think that two men taken, one is taken, one is left, but that's the rapture.

It is not. It has nothing to do with the rapture. It's taken of the wicked, if you read the context. And so some think that at the return of Christ, this kind of thing will continue. Now, when you go to Jude 6, the angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, he has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great God, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these, indulged in gross immorality when after strange flesh, are exhibited. And that means present tense, present participle in the Greek, as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. They are now undergoing this punishment.

So, I know I put this together quickly, but here's the thing. It seems to be the case that if this Nephilim theory is true, and it is going to occur again towards the return of Christ, and Sodom and Gomorrah are related to this issue in going after strange flesh, and within Sodom and Gomorrah was rampant homosexuality. Now, notice that in Sodom and Gomorrah, the homosexual community was persecuting severely the people of Lot, the godly people, even to the point of brick and enter doors, and demanding their way with people. And so, I can't help but wonder if these two aspects will be recurring towards the return of Christ, in the rise and the empowering of homosexuals to the point where they will become aggressive and even violent, to have their ways.

And along with that, perhaps the Nephilim will be not reconstituted, I believe they're still around, because they occurred after the flood as well, the Nephilim in those days. So, that's a short version of all of it, it's interesting. And there you go, all right? Yes sir, do you have an article on that anywhere on your website? Oh, I don't know.

I should take whatever I just said, transcribe it, and put it so if someone out there can transcribe what I said, then put it into an article, or send it to me, then I can polish it up as an article and go through it. It's one of the theories that's running around, and some relate the Nephilim to UFOs, because the UFOs, like the Nephilim, were interested in sexual reproduction. And I'm reading a book presently by a guy who's well known in that field, and he's very scientific, and he's talking about the various things that abductees suffer, and a lot of this stuff is sexual things, reproduction, and stuff like this. And also, they're taught theology. And this guy, this secularist, is bringing it up, and it's New Age philosophy.

And he's not a Christian, from what I can see, he's just a clinical psychologist doing the research. And so, that's what's happening. And there you go, there's a lot of stuff there, a lot of stuff I could bring up, but you never know. All right.

There's a lot. All right, well, thank you. Sure, no problem. You're welcome. Hope that was invigorating.

Yes, sir, it was. All right, well, God bless. All right, we'll see you. God bless you, too. You, too.

All right. Hey, folks, we have four open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-20-722-76, give me a call. And let's get to Ken from Virginia. Ken, welcome. You are on the air. Hey, good evening to you, sir. Wonderful show. And I heard you talking about when you had mentioned part of your explanation to the previous gentleman, a transcript.

That's what I do with a lot of the shows that I watch is I'll go back the next day and dig through some of the transcripts because it's such a lot of good information that is being put out when I listen to this radio station. And one of the things that I had asked somebody the other day, and, you know, they kind of, their brow kind of went down. And basically it's a thing that me and a friend of mine, we hit on it sometimes. He believes in predestination, and I'm not a disbeliever, but I'm not like all in on that. And then I read in, I think it's Romans 9, about when you get down to verse 14, it talks about, you know, if you're familiar with that, it's almost like, it's almost in line with the people that believe in predestination. But then again, I wanted to get your take on it. Yeah, predestination is biblical, flat out.

It is. And the reason that it is is because the Bible teaches predestination. And what I'll do is go through right now, I'll look up verses. And if we go to, for example, Matthew, and then I hit predest and look for it, what I'll find is several instances. So for example, in Acts 4 26 and 27, for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your purpose predestined to occur. I mean, so whatever predestination is, it's right there, so God predestines people and things to happen.

That's what that is talking about. And then it says in Romans 8 29, for those whom he foreknew, he also predestined to become conformed to the image of his son. Now some people make the mistake of thinking that those whom he foreknew, that foreknowledge means he looked into the future to see what people would choose, and then he predestined some of those out of that. That's unbiblical. Because it says here, for those whom he foreknew, he also predestined.

They're the same group. The foreknown ones are also the predestined ones. And the word foreknown has a different meaning than what most people think, and I can get into that at another time. And then another place, as I just read, for those whom he foreknew, he also predestined to become conformed to the image of his son, so that he should be the firstborn among many brethren. And these whom he predestined, he also called. Those whom he called, he justified and justified, he glorified.

So there's another instance of it. And then 1 Corinthians 2.7, but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages of glory. And then Ephesians 1.4 and 5, I'll read both those together. In fact, we'll get to that after the break, because I want to read one more set of two verses, Ephesians 1.4 and 5, and then we'll talk more about predestination and stuff like that, okay? So hold on, all right, buddy?

Okay, thank you. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages, please stay tuned. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on here with Ken from Virginia.

Okay, Ken, you still there? Yes. All right, so now what I wanted to do was just read a couple more verses to you, okay? So you can see what the Scriptures are teaching, because the issue is, is it in the Bible?

That's what the issue is. This is Ephesians 1, verses 4 and 5, and it says, Just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the kind intention of his will. Okay, now, it's biblical, isn't it? Wouldn't you agree?

Yes, I would. Okay, so what else would you like to know? And believe it or not, tomorrow, tomorrow I will definitely get the transcript of this show. Because when I hear shows that there's stuff that somebody has put a really solid meaning to something, you better believe that I go looking for the transcript. Okay, and I'm glad you do that, because that's a good thing to do. And also, you mentioned Romans 9, okay? So when we go to Romans 9, I want to show you something in Romans 9, starting in verse 9. A lot of people don't like what it says, and I did not either when I first read it. But what it says is what it says, and we need to stick to what it says.

Now, it talks about Jacob, I love thee, not Esau, I hate it. And if you read the context, it's not because of works, it's not because of anything that they would do. Well, and that's what it says in verse 14, well, there's no injustice with God, is there? So the reason Paul is raising that objection is because of what he just taught. So the point here is that if you don't raise the same objection, then you don't understand what Paul's saying. It should cause you to go, well, wait a minute.

And if it does cause you to go, well, wait a minute, is that fair, is that right? Then that means you're understanding the text. Now, some people will say that what is going on here, Jacob is just a nation group, and Esau is a nation group, that he can love one nation of people and hate another nation group of people, and that within those nation groups, all individuals just make their free will choices. And so this is a common interpretation of this section of Scripture that's held by, let's just say, a certain theological persuasion within the Protestantism, and it's very weak.

I'll just say that it is weak. It's not nations that he's talking about, but about individuals. And we know that because of what he says later on does not depend upon the man who wills or the man who runs. But upon God who has mercy, then he talks about Pharaoh, and he has hardens whom he wants, he has mercy on whom he wants, and he makes some for good use and some for bad use. Now, this is what's going on in the book of Romans. The thing is that it deals with God's election and predestination. An election is God's right to choose who he wants for salvation. 2 Thessalonians 2.13 says we've been chosen from the beginning for salvation. That's 2 Thessalonians 2.13. Acts 13.48 says for as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. It does not say they believed, and that's why they were appointed to eternal life, because that would be God's reaction to foreseen good qualities and actions in individuals. But that shows bias and prejudice and partiality in the place of God.

There's all kinds of problems with the other position. And I'm giving you a short but sweet version, but this is what the Scriptures teach. And I'll just say to anybody...

Yes, and that's... Go ahead. Yeah, I was going to say, it's short, it was sweet, but it's to the point. I'm not a person that demands a diatribe from someone to get the point. Some people, you can watch and be talked to, and it's almost like the person that's trying to explain it to them is just... I hate to say it, but it's almost like they're talking to a wall.

You know, they just... You know, I need more, I need more, I need more, I need... At some point it's like, well, I've given you all I can give you. Yeah. Well, it's something I experience all the time. Yeah, and I watched a guy on a YouTube video. He's a street preacher, very polite guy, very polite. This guy that he was talking to, I think he was just, he was thinking himself into a hole was the way I look at it. He was just thinking himself into a hole because it was one objection after another, and the guy says, you know, be open-minded about this.

At least, you know, ask questions on both sides. But I appreciate your time because you've given me a whole lot, and it amazes me how you guys... It's a gift. I know it's a gift from the good Lord, how, you know, I could tell you, you know exactly where to go. I mean, you knew where to go, and I wish I knew my Bible that well, but, you know, I appreciate the ones that have studied the Bible for years and years and years because you help the ones of us that, you know, has questions, and sometimes not everyone knows the answers.

Yeah, that's right. And I had the privilege of being able to do this full time, and I have been for probably 18 years now. And before that, you know, I would do it all the time anyway, and so I just, you know, love doing it. And I'm privileged to be able to serve God this way.

Keep doing it because there's people out there that need it. I'm one of them. Well, praise God. And don't forget to go to the website. Yes.

Go to the website, too. Okay. Yes, I will. And thank you so much, and have a great day. You're welcome. Okay. God bless. Bye-bye. All right. Well, that was a good call.

I enjoyed that. Now, in the text, we've got somebody who's so hungry, he says, don't talk about food. Everybody's mentioning good things like tacos and steak, you know, just basic stuff.

Hamburgers. He asked for it. So there you go. All right. Hey, let's get on the air here with Brian from Winston-Salem. Brian, welcome.

You're on the air. Hey, Matt. How are you doing? I'm doing all right. How are you doing?

Doing okay. I wanted to follow up a question from a previous caller on Genesis chapter 6. How could the angels who are spirits have relations with the daughters of man physically? In other words, how could they provide the necessary genetic material to procreate?

I don't know. We do know that angels can appear as men, and you can't even tell they're not human. That's one of the things that scriptures teach. So they're incredibly capable. This means they can sweat. This means individual hairs on their bodies, irises that dilate, because people notice these things. We're used to seeing people all the time. So there's an incredible ability of angels to manifest down to very strong details. So we don't know how any genetic activation of material would occur, but it just seems to be the case, and we don't know how, but that just seems to be it. I don't think I've heard that one.

The interpretation that I've heard that sounded reasonable was that the sons of God, in this case, were the godly line of the sons of death. No, that's not going to work. It doesn't work. Hold on. We'll get a break. We'll talk about that. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages.

Please stay tuned. All right, everyone. Welcome back to the bottom of the hour. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get back on here with Brian. Are you still there? Yes, still here.

Okay. So the sons of the line of Seth was a theory that was developed. I found out a bit of my information. I found out that it was started about 500 years after Christ because people started ridiculing it, and the theory was developed by others. So the sons of Seth were mighty men, but that's not how the term sons of God is used. It's in reference to people. In the Old Testament, it's in reference to angelic beings.

That's just how it's used. When you go to Jude 6 and 7, it talks about angels who left their first abode and went after strange flesh. Now, the Jews taught that the Nephilim were the offspring of fallen angels and people and women. That's what they just taught completely through the Old Testament time and into the past, the arrival of Christ, and the early church taught that as well until it became attacked in the Seth line works. In my opinion, the Sethite theory is pretty weak, pretty weak. But it's taught in a lot of schools and seminaries now.

Okay, great. So sons of God in the Old Testament always means angels. New Testament as well?

No. Sons of God in the Old Testament is different. Sons of God and the Beatitudes. You are the sons of God if you do this and that.

You love God or something or whatever. Let's get in here. I'm going to do a search for the phrase sons of God.

How come it's not coming up? Let's go back to Genesis. Let's see. There we go. Sons of God.

Hey, you're supposed to do it that way. There we go. So it occurs, the phrase occurs five times. And that's in the Old Testament. So in Genesis 6 it occurs twice. And then in Job 1, 6, now there's a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan was with them. And then Job 2, 1, the same thing is said.

Just slightly different wording. And Job 38, 7 talks about the sons of God shouting for joy. The morning started saying together and all the sons of God shouted for joy.

And the morning starts is another reference to angels. So that seems to be what's going on. Okay. Okay, great. Thanks, Matt. I appreciate it.

You're welcome, man. God bless. God bless. Okay, God bless. All right.

Well, let's see. Now we have four open lines if you want to give me a call. 877-207-2276. Let's get on the air with John from North Carolina. Hey, John.

Welcome. You're on the air. Hello, Matt. Hello. One minute. One minute, John. Hey, I texted you back.

I was doing a lot of traveling. Yeah. I texted you back today about something, you know. Yeah.

But you didn't include the email I need to send you the software to. And if it goes to about 5.50, I sent you the time dilation article. Oh, interesting. Okay, sounds good. Yeah.

Yeah, there's a lot to study. That's for sure. Yeah.

Okay. So it seems like it's Bethlehem Day. I guess it's about 35 years ago was into the UFOs and finding out about that. Jerry and Billy Meyer was a farmer in Switzerland. And I think we talked about this a couple years ago. His predictions that he got from them that have come true, which is what demons can do.

Right. So I wonder if you could do a search on the Old Testament for some similar to some Yahtzee. When I was doing discipleship, working through the Old Testament, I don't know where it was, but I came across just an off spelling to what she is according to Billy Meyer. And it's a pretty bad demon. And she's the one that does all the translations with him. Yah, P-T-A-H, happens to be a primary god in Egyptian lore, so there's a connection between a modern encounter and referencing back to the Old Testament. Yeah, they're called experiencers.

It's a modern term for them. But yeah, send information. And by the way, I want to talk to you about a small idea.

Just a small idea with the first thing we talked about with the AI video production with voice and stuff. Yep. But I got your phone number. Maybe I'll call you in an hour or so.

I don't know if you're free. All right. Okay. But sounds good.

It should be filmed about that time. All right. Or you call me if you want. All right. I know some stuff anyway. But I got an idea. In fact, I emailed you.

I returned an email to you today. Yeah, I saw that. What? Yeah, that's the idea. That's what I'm talking about. Maybe we could work something out here and figure it out.

I think so. Because that would be a great way to make things much more easy. Or I should say much more easier. I think it's much more easy. And then check out that software.

It's really inexpensive that will allow you to do the translation from text to the speech that you were looking for. Good. I need that too.

And that's the one that I was asking you to send me the email back that when I do the purchase, I'm just going to have them send the email for the download right directly to you. Well, I tell you what. Call me when you're free tonight. I've got to be online doing something on Wednesday night at 9 p.m. Eastern. But call me. We'll just talk when you're free.

Then we'll get together and catch up on it. Paul, the 800 number and then... Nah. Oh, I gave you my cell, didn't I? Not yet. No. Okay.

I'll find it. I'll give you my cell. Okay. All right, big man. Okay. Talk to you later.

Right over. Okay. Bye. All right. We'll see you. Bye.

All right. That was John. I like John. He thinks like me. Brilliant, humble, good looking, you know, basics.

That's always good stuff. All right. Let's get on the air with Clarice from Winston-Salem. Clarice, welcome.

You're on the air. Hi, Matt. Hi. And no, I'm not from Winston-Salem. I'm close. Why not?

From a little town called Ashbro, which is near Winston-Salem. Okay. All right. But that's okay. I'm not offended by that. Okay.

Okay. So I've heard you, one of your shows, and I'm not a long time listener, I just recently discovered you a few months ago, but I understood you to say that you do not believe that the Bible teaches that there will be a thousand year reign, a literal thousand year reign of Christ on earth. Is that true or not true? That you- That's correct. That's what I hold to. I went and before I ask you to explain that, I just want to give you my point of reference other than hearing pastors say that that will be literally a thousand years. So I am taking the scripture from 2 Peter and then Revelation 20. And so I got my, I use a strong concordance and looked up the Greek in that, the word thousand, and it says thousand. And so I really would love to hear why you believe the Bible teaches that that is not a thousand years literally.

Because of context and some other things. And just so you know, I'll introduce the topic here. I hope I'm wrong.

I don't die in this hill. This is just where I'm at. And if you disagree, that's like, okay, that's fine.

You know, it's not a big deal. You notice what it says here in Revelation 20. Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding a key of the abyss. Now the angel, I would say is literal, a literal angel.

Holding a key. Okay. I'm sorry. What verse are you at?

Oh, Revelation 20 verse one. Okay. Okay. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Okay. So I saw an angel come down from heaven. I would say angel and heaven are both literal. Holding the key of the abyss. I would say the key there is a figurative key, not a literal key, you know, like a key chain and a great chain in his hand. Well, it's not a literal chain. You don't bind the devil. You don't bind the devil with a physical chain.

Okay. There's something else going on there. So those are figurative uses. Laid hold of the dragon. Now that's figurative. The serpent of old. I would say that's literal.

Who's a devil and Satan had bound him for a thousand years. So the question is, how do we know that the term thousand years is literal or figurative? That's the question. Well, how do you know it's not? Well, I'm not saying it is or isn't. See, what people will do is they'll say, well, it just means it's literal. And I'll show you something why it can't be. I'll just show you in a little bit.

Okay. I've got a break coming up here in a little bit, but I'll show you some verses and it's just really going to be a problem and I'll introduce a new concept to you too. But the thing is, the Bible says a day is but a thousand years. A thousand years is but a day to God. And it also says that God owns a cattle on a thousand Hills. Well, the word thousand here each time is figurative each time.

Why is it literal there? It may be. I'm just saying we shouldn't assume it is. We need to establish that it is.

That's the point I'm trying to make. Hey, can you hold on, Clarice? We've got a break. Okay. Yes, sir. I can. Thank you. All right. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right. I've been welcomed back to the last segment of the hour.

Just want to let you know. Hey, a couple of things I just remembered. I forgot about this, but we have openings on our Turkey, Greece, Italy trip for the Bible lands and stuff like that, Bible, the journeys, footsteps of Paul, we have openings for that. If you're curious about it, you want to email me info at karm.org. We had a couple of people drop out, and so we've got some room. If you want to go on that trip, you can check it out.

I'll send you the information, but you can also go to Karm and just type in the search engine footsteps of Paul, and it should bring you up to the link on that. There you go. All right. Let's get back on the air. Here we go.

With Clarice, are you still there? Yes, sir. Thank you. Okay.

Whew. Okay. Boy. All right. So you're ready? I'll show you something. Okay.

Well, I have my boots on, so go ahead. Okay. Well, that's good. Good for you. Good for you.

All right. So in the standard view, let's see, the standard view, it says, that's literal thousand years. I'm going to show you something that's going to be a problem for it.

It's a big problem, and it really is. You've probably never heard this before, and it's simple. And I'll show you something else that'll add even more to that. So from the premillennial view, this is what got me, this is what converted me from premill to amil, is what I'm going to show you. And so in the premillennial view, there's the seven-year tribulation, the rapture happens either before or after that kind of thing.

It doesn't really matter in this context. And then after that, after the rapture, there's a thousand years, and then the new heavens and new earth are made after the thousand years. Right? Right. Right.

Okay. What I'm going to do is read to you 1 Thessalonians 4, starting at verse 16 through chapter 5, verse 2. The cheddar break is not in the Greek.

So cheddar break is kind of an unfortunate place, but nevertheless, you'll get it. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. That's Jesus coming back, rapture, right? And we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall always be with the Lord, bless the rapture.

And Paul goes on, he says, Therefore comfort one another with these words. Now, as to the times and the epics, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. So that's what the Bible is saying there, right? A day of the Lord come like a thief in the night. Yes.

All right. Now, check this out, 2 Peter 3.10, with the day of the Lord will come like a thief. Now, let's talk about the same day, because there's no other phraseology that's used this like this. The day of the Lord come like a thief in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat and the earth and its works will be burned up. So where's the thousand years in between those events?

If there's the same day, the rapture occurs at the same day that the new heavens and new words are made. That's what converted me on the spot. Someone showed me those verses and didn't even say what they were about.

But did you, sorry, it's really hard not to interrupt talking because of the radio, sorry. But I mean, you just didn't like just be reading it. And you saw it. I mean, well, I mean, that's how the Holy Spirit works. But I mean, were you studying out a particular thing or did something like that doesn't make sense? I mean, what brought you into that?

A friend of mine at his apartment in El Cajon, California, about 35 years ago, I guess it was, I was over at his house, he's a Christian and his apartment and he said, hey, I've got to show you these verses. And I said, well, what's it about? He goes, I'm not telling you.

I said, well, why not? He goes, just read them. And so I read them. He didn't say anything. And I read, this is what I read to you. And I looked at him and I said, there's no millennium.

That's what I said. As he could, he goes, I know someone had shown him and then he showed me and he didn't say what it was about. And so I never forgot it because it converted me on the spot because the day of the Lord to come like a thief is the same day. That's when the rapture occurs. And that's when the new heavens and new earth are made. And there's not two days of the Lord to come like a thief.

It's not like that. Well, I believe that, okay. And I have said this to you one other time in a conversation about another subject. That most of the pastors that I know, and I've known quite a few in my life and I've been, my husband and I are in a good Bible-believing church, but most of the pastors that I have known in my lifetime believe in the pre-treat of rapture of the church.

Yes, unfortunately. And even John MacArthur, who I have a lot of respect for and believe he's biblical sound and a great theologian, he even believes that, you know, the pre-treat of rapture of the church. I would debate him in a loving way. I would debate John MacArthur on it, yeah, I would.

Well you go ahead. I'm not debating John MacArthur, but anyway, my point is that for those of us normal lay people in churches, I mean, personally I've been a student of the Word of God for 42 years since I've been saved. Not that I read Greek and Hebrew and all, I just believe in line upon line, precept upon precept. And you know, I just read the Bible and I try to, we've always been under men of God that preach the Word and not heresy.

And I've always asked the Lord for this, because that's to me the greatest gift for me. And so when I first discovered you, I have never really, just because a man in the pulpit says that we're going to be raptured out and we're going to be out of here and we don't have to worry about that, well I don't believe that because the church was birthed in tribulation. You know, so I believe we're going out in tribulation.

Good for you. That's what I believe. Well tell you what, let me run something else by you, okay?

You've heard this phrase, two men in the field, one is taken, one is left, right? That's the rapture, right? Yes.

Yes. It has nothing to do with the rapture, nothing. And a hundred percent of the time over the years that I've shown people the context of each one of them, of that they've been converted, they go, that's not the rapture. The rapture occurs, but those are not about the rapture.

What do you believe those are about? In Matthew 24, Luke 17, it says, two men are in the field, one is taken, one is left. The context is the wicked are the ones who were taken.

It's not the good. And we know because in Luke 17, it says, as it was the days of Noah, so shall it be the days of the coming of the Son of Man. They were eating, they were drinking, they were giving in marriage till the day that Noah entered the ark and the flood came and destroyed them all. And two men will be taken, two men on the field, one is taken, and they ask him, were they taken? And he answers, Jesus answers them, where the body is the vultures gather. That's where they're taken to.

The people who were destroyed are taken to a place of death. And you can look it up yourself, do the parallel of Matthew 24, Matthew 24, 36, I believe it is. And Luke 17, 37, anyway, Matthew 24, Luke 17, find them and you'll see the parallel. And I'm telling you, 100% of the time, people have just said, oh my goodness, you're right, that's what it says. Because it is what it says. This is a fight I will die for, I mean, not die for, but I mean, that's what it says, I'll fight that one.

Anybody who says no, go, yeah, it is, just read it. Now here's the question, why is it that pastors and preachers all over the United States are reading these sections of scripture and can't even get that right? Because it's, those verses are not about the rapture. They're not. Well, it's almost like it's been passed down, like they heard it from their pastor or the school, the theological school that they went to. And that's what they say. And so they don't really question, research it out because somebody else told them. And that's the easy way out. It's the lazy way. But yeah. That's the lazy way, they're not supposed to do that.

They're supposed to examine the scriptures daily, look at them, not just tote the denominational line. Furthermore, to make things even worse, to make things even worse, I'll show you something. Okay. Remember in Matthew 13, it talks about the parable of the wheat and the tares. The wheat are the Christians, the tares are the unbelievers. Yeah.

Yeah. And you know, should we tear them up? And Jesus says, no. This is Matthew 13, 30.

Now check this out. Who the first, who are the first ones taken? Allow both to grow together until the harvest, in the time of the harvest, I'll say to the reapers, first gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up. But gather the wheat into my barn. The first ones gathered at the harvest are the wicked. And when you go further down in there, Matthew 13, 30, Matthew 13, 40, okay.

So just that, you should read the whole thing of course. For just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. The sun, now check this out, the sun will send forth his angels and gather out of his kingdom all stumbling blocks and those who commit lawlessness and throw them into the furnace. So Jesus says the angels will take the wicked out of his kingdom. Now if it's a thousand year reign of Christ and that's his kingdom, then why does it say then that at the end of the age is when this happens and the end of the age is also when the rapture occurs because the wicked are the ones who are taken. At the end of the age, the judgment occurs and I can show this all to you, the electric cathode and Jesus returns, the rapture occurs. And so when you start seeing this stuff, it really messes with pre-millennial views, it really does.

It really does. Yes I know, I've had discussions with my former pastor and I respectfully disagreed with them and you know sometimes they look because I'm a woman in a condescending way but I don't care, I respect them as men of God so that doesn't bother me. They should not talk to you like that, they should not do that. They should not talk down to you because you're a woman, they should not do that, they should not be condescending. Well I think they talked down to me more because I disagreed with them. And they're not used, especially one particular pastor I had was not used to people disagreeing with him and you know it's okay, I don't need to get into that, it's okay. It doesn't bother me because it just doesn't.

But I have to tie this in, I have a question, I know it's close to the end of the program but I have another quick question to tie in with this. So if we believe that the church is going through the tribulation, so this is a problem that I'm having because I'm seeing scripture fulfilled before our faith and with the current administration and what they're doing with the homosexuals, the children, all of this, you know I know we're moving closer and closer to that time. And you know, I just believe in my spirit that something will happen even before next year that we probably won't even have the election. But this is just my two cents, that's all it's worth.

Well you're not the only one who said that. Because now, think about this, the new COVID, we gotta go here in a sec, in 10 seconds, the new COVID restrictions are supposed to be coming back and what if the government uses it as an excuse to suspend elections, I'm not saying it's gonna happen but I just don't trust our government. I can't even watch news anymore. I'm so enraged. Well we don't.

We don't. There's a break. Call back tomorrow. Can I hold on for a minute?

No, I don't know if you can. We'll talk after the show. Let's see. I'll give you a shot. Well hold on. I want to ask you another question. Well okay but we're at the end of the radio show so hold on. Hey folks, I want to see how that goes. May the Lord bless you, we'll be back on the air tomorrow, God bless everybody. Another program powered by the Truth Network.