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Matt Slick Live

Matt Slick Live! / Matt Slick
The Truth Network Radio
July 6, 2023 8:36 pm

Matt Slick Live

Matt Slick Live! / Matt Slick

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July 6, 2023 8:36 pm

The Matt Slick Live daily radio show broadcast is a production of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry -CARM-. During the show, Matt answers questions on the air, and offers insight on topics like The Bible, Apologetics, Theology, World Religions, Atheism, and other issues-- The show airs live on the Truth Network, Monday through Friday, 6-7 PM, EST -3-4 PM, PST--You can also email questions to Matt using-, Please put -Radio Show Question- in the Subject line--You can also watch a live stream during the live show on RUMBLE---MSL- July, 5 2023--Topics include---05- Hate mail-07- Refuting Atheist attacks on the Bible.-10- Evidence that God is real- 1 Sam 28-3-25- Colossians 2-12.-27- The Book of Life.-29- Jude 1-6, 2 Peter 2-4, Are all the fallen angels bound, who are the demons---38- Would an atheist persuading a JW to leave the cult be doing them a favor--


The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network.

Today is July 5th, 2023. I hope that you all had a good Thanksgiving. I went over to some friends' house, my wife and I did, and watched fireworks for like an hour's worth of fireworks. It was a lot of fun.

We do it on an annual basis. And hey, look, if you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 8772072276. You can give me a call and we can talk. We've got nobody waiting right now, and I'm just looking around. Okay, that looks good.

Everything looks good. So what I can do, what I like to do sometimes is get to the emails that come in. People have emails and questions, and so we'll get to those too. And if you want to, you don't want to call, you want to call, give me an email.

Send an email to info at, info at C-A-R-M, info at And just say radio question or radio comment, and we can check it out. And let's see if we got any right now in there that come in.

I've got a bunch in the reserve. Let's see. Ooh, look at that.

Oh, that's right. Next week I'm going to be having a slash discussion, debate slash kind of a thing on, oh, hey, look at this. This is good stuff. About limit atonement, so I'll be discussing that. And here we go. Let me see.

I'm just going to jump into some stuff because I just saw this one part of an email, and I'm going to check it out. Let's see. Let's see.

Where'd it go? Come on. I just had it. Oh, man. You know? Wait a minute. It's right there, I think.

Radio questions. Okay, happy. Okay, let's see.

Came in. I've watched a few of Matt's slick debates. It frustrates me to watch him repeat the words, no, you're the one who has faith. Then when someone shows the evidence, he just laughs at it.

That's not what happens. To say that people have faith is not bad. People have faith in everything, or all kinds of people have faith in all kinds of things. And when people show me evidence, I don't just laugh at it. It's just, it's funny.

People misrepresent me so much. Anyway, it says there's a way I can have a discussion with this man. I have a political podcast, but if I could talk for 15 minutes without recording it, it'd be fine. I says, yeah, I wrote him back. I go, yeah, let's talk. Then he says, happy belated independence day.

When are you in the chat room next? I'd like to join to ask Matt's like about his intellectual dishonesty. Oh man, I get a kick out of that.

I've just heard new debate between him and rational response. Quite his issue with that one was protecting his insecurities before they could ask him deep questions. Oh man, I just started laughing out loud. I hope you can put myself on mute. Oh man, I love talking to atheists and stuff. I love this. His issue with that one was protecting his insecurities before they could ask any deep questions.

That's right. It's just about my insecurities. Don't ask any deep questions. That's what it's all about, folks. Oh man.

Yeah, this guy, we need to talk. Oh man, it's the atheists who can't deal with the deep questions and their insecurities. It's amazing to me how convoluted people's ideas can be and their perceptions of things can be. I love evidence. Give me evidence. We just got to look at evidence in a broader worldviews context.

That's all. Evidences, potentialities, and actualities exist within a certain worldview framework. What's the conditions of your worldview? What assumptions do you make and how are they consistent with your worldview? What justifies those assumptions as being true?

Those are deep questions and I love to talk to atheists about that. Don't just cover my insecurities. That's all it is. Oh man, I love that kind of stuff. I do.

I get a kick out of it. All right. Well, now that I've had a little bit of fun, let's see if we can get to the caller.

Let's see. Elijah from Pennsylvania. Elijah, welcome. You're on the air.

Hey, Matt. I have two questions for you today. Okay.

Okay. First question is how would you respond to an atheist? They said this to you because I heard R. and Rod say this.

He said since the Bible has been constantly edited over the centuries over and over again, he said that means that the Bible is man's word and not God's word. How would you respond to a person that said that to you? I'd say politely. They've said it to me many times. I said politely. You just don't understand the issues and the historicity of the documents and how it works.

You just don't know because if you did, you wouldn't say that. It's just so far off the mark, it's obvious to me. You haven't studied this for more than five seconds, maybe four, possibly just three because that's how bad it is, seriously, been edited.

Give me a break. See, this is how it works. Biblical documents like the Gospel of John are written. The original is called an autograph. Well, the letters and numbers are also the same characters. When you write a series of letters, you're also writing a series of numbers. The reason that's important is because the Jews who considered this to be an incredibly important word from God would copy these documents one letter at a time or one number at a time. When they were done, they would add up the numbers of the original to the copy and they would check them. If there was a discrepancy, they went and found out where the discrepancy was. They would either correct it. Maybe they missed a word like the word the, which is a single letter O, the end of a line and they forgot it, whatever.

Just little things. They would go back and they would make sure it was correct. This is the process, among other things, it's the process that the New Testament documents were written and copied.

I've read statistics, something like 99.85% textual identical copies from all over the Mediterranean, all over the area. To say that it's been edited, it's just like, come on. If I was debating him in public and he said it, I'd be like, aye, aye, aye. I'd say, dude, you need to study this stuff before you open your mouth because you're making yourself look bad. Wow, it's just horrible.

Yeah, it's bad stuff. I mean, he doesn't know what he's talking about. He does not know what he's talking about.

He's ignorant. Okay. All right. My second question is also a quote from R.N.

Law, but this one is like a paragraph long. If you want to type it down and read it to yourself before you respond, you can do that? Go ahead and just kind of go for it and I'll just write some notes out of it and we'll see what he says and then I'll respond to it. Okay. He said, if God were real, then there wouldn't be any apologists because we wouldn't need them because there would be evidence for God.

And if there was evidence for God, then we wouldn't need faith because we would already have demonstrable evidence of his existence. Wow. Seriously, Aaron Raw, you should send me that paragraph.

You should send me that because I could write an article response and just rip it apart like a monkey in a cupcake. Okay. I mean, just shred it. Okay. Seriously.

It's pretty bad. Okay. If God were real, then there wouldn't be any apologists because we wouldn't need them. Really? Oh, okay. This is that simple. So, where did he get that out of the book of second hesitations?

This is ridiculous. We'd have evidence for God. And who says we don't have evidence for God? Because the Bible tells us the evidence is there and of course there's evidence. There's transcendental evidence. There's logic evidence. There's the issue of beauty. There's the issue of the resurrection of Christ. There's the issue of one in many. There's the issue of an infinite regression of uncaused causes can't be possible, particularly when you look at it and the issue of all contextual facts have an ultimate origin.

We could get into all kinds of stuff. And so he makes the mistake of thinking that evidence is so objective that anybody with a rational mind will simply believe it. And so what he's further doing is failing to understand the deceptiveness of sin, which the Bible talks about. Which, if sin were a lake, Aaron Ra would be not only swimming in it, he'd be scuba diving in it, okay. He'd be entrenched in it.

He'd be just going out there, he'd be doing back strokes if that were the case. And so he doesn't understand the position he criticizes. He doesn't understand the theological perspective he's trying to work against. And then there's the issue of how many evidences. How many evidences would be sufficient?

What kind of evidence are there? Because the evidence necessary to prove that there's a loaf of bread in my pantry is different than the evidence I would use to demonstrate God exists. So there's just different kinds of evidences and he doesn't deal with that kind of a thing. And so he wouldn't need faith.

Well, not necessarily because everybody has a measure of faith, which is what Aaron Ra does not like at all. Oh, man, he does not like the idea of having faith. When I talked to him last, I said, yeah, you've got faith. No, I do not. Oh, yes, you do have faith.

Oh, I don't. Yeah, you have faith that the person driving a car opposite direction of you won't cross that yellow line and crash head on into you. Yeah, faith is going to happen. No, I don't have faith. It's just the logic of it happening so many times. They can deduce.

They go, yeah, you can't prove it, so you have faith that it's going to work. He goes, no, I don't. I mean, he's like that, all right, and he just doesn't know how to do very well thinking-wise. I suspect that my quips here, my little comments about him, I'm going to get back to him, and he's not ever going to debate me. I would love to debate this guy on these kind of topics. He cannot.

Discord is unmuted. And so he couldn't fight his way to a wet paper bag if it was 45-degree angle down, greased, and there was neon lights pointing the way. He still couldn't get out, okay? He can't argue, all right? Yeah. Yeah, I think if you start, like, responding to him through your YouTube response videos, he might notice it, and then might encourage him to debate you because Kelly Powers wanted to debate Sam Shamone and William Albrecht for the longest, but it wasn't until he started making response videos to them that Sam Shamone finally debated him about a few weeks ago, and now William Albrecht is going to be debating him, I think, about a month on the topic of mariology.

Ooh, mariology. Yeah, one of the things I do want to start doing is response videos, and I'm very slow about getting into things because I'm cautious, and the reason I'm cautious is because I've been threatened with lawsuits. We've had bumps in the night on the outside. I've been swatted. Satanists have said they're going to kill me, you know, things like this, and so I just move slowly and make sure everything's legal, and then I'll just go in at full bore. So I'll be doing a lot of response videos and some analysis videos and stuff like that. So send me, if you can't send me, hit that link.

I mean, just send it to info at, you know, Aaron Ross' comments video, and I'll just forget a method for doing response videos, somehow play it and figure it out, and then the more I do, the better it will get. So there's that, but no, he couldn't argue his weight of a wet paper bag. A wet paper bag, wet, and I mean saturated wet. So if you went like this on it, it would fall apart, okay?

He still couldn't get out of it. All right? All right.

All right, man, you e-mail me that stuff, okay, buddy? All right, Elijah. All right.

Okay. Hey, I hope you are enjoying yourself. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276.

Be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276.

Mr. Kit for your $7 rant in Rumble. And by the way, folks, what we're doing is we're broadcasting to, I believe, now we're doing full-time the whole show on YouTube and also on Rumble. And I've been releasing over the past few days some videos, one-minute videos. And we'll be doing a lot more in different topics. It's a slow process, but we finally got to the point where we can do stuff.

I've got to teach myself so many tech options and things like that. There's that. If you want to participate with us in the Rumble chat system, just go to forward slash mattslicklive, and you can find today's show. Click on it, and you can see the people in there. We've got 68 who are watching right now. I don't know how many people are in the chat area. Matt, are you doing Clubhouse tonight? Yes, I am.

I plan on doing Clubhouse tonight. That is true. I'm just reading some of the text and stuff people are saying. Okay, yes, we are back on to doing the whole show on YouTube, and we have a lot of stuff going on. Anyway, there's a lot of stuff going on. Okay, let's see. Let's get to Luke again from Washington, D.C.

Welcome. You're on the air. Hi, Matt. How are you? I'm tired. I've got a yawn going on. Whoa, sorry about that.

That's how I am. So what have you got, man? Can you hear me?

Yes, I can hear you. Okay. So what have you got? I've got Samuel 28 verse seven to 20. First Samuel 28, yeah. Okay.

Seven to 20. Did the witch of Endor really summon Samuel from the dead? There's debate on it between the different commentaries I've read over the years, so I'll just give you my opinion. My opinion is, yes, she really did. It's not that she had the power to summon, but that it was allowed to occur that Samuel just appeared and then rebuked Saul.

That's what I believe. Okay. I cannot hear.

Well, I said, and I'll say it one more time, that, yeah, I do believe it really was Samuel who was showing himself there. Okay? All right? I didn't hear.

I cannot hear what you said. Okay. Well, in that case, call back, all right? We'll just call back because I'm given the answers.

We've got a bad connection. Okay, good. Now, hey, I've got a question for you. For those of you who have been watching the one-minute videos I've been producing, we've got a lot more to do.

I've got probably another hundred to do just in Christianity alone, and it'll take me a couple, three, four months, who knows how many, how long. But I'd like to get your feedback. Just tell me what you think.

You can call in and say, hey, they're really good, or what a joke. Whatever you want. You can let me know, all right? Taking a lot of work to get them done too, but we're finally starting the, they're working.

They're moving. All right. All right, so we don't have anybody waiting online.

But if you want to call me, it's 8772072276. I want to hear you call up and tell me what you think about the one-minute videos because that'd be interesting. Okay, now let's see. I'm going to get back into the questions, radio questions, if you want. You can email me radio questions or comments at info at

Just type in the word radio comment or radio question in there for the subject. All right, let's see. Colossians 2.12, buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith of the working of God who raised him from the dead. Some anti-Calvinists are suggesting that this verse says faith comes before regeneration.

What's your take? How would you interpret this verse? Colossians 12, buried with him in baptism. All right, let's go look at the context. All right, Colossians 2.

Let's see. I started verse 10. In him you've been made complete, and he is the head over all rule and authority, and in him you are also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with him through faith in the working of God who raised him from the dead. Nothing in there talks about what's called the ordo salutis, and the order of faithful regeneration here isn't talked about. It just says you're circumcised with this circumcision made without hands. It's talking about the issue of how baptism relates to the covenant and of circumcision. So that's all that's going on. You're buried with him in baptism, in which you're also raised with him through faith, so that baptism is for someone who's already a believer.

So unless that person wants to assert that the idea of baptism is necessary for salvation, then they just don't understand what the text is saying. All right, let's try this one. Let's try this one.

Let's see, what's this one? I don't believe that. You're salvation. So Revelation 3.5, in light of being able to lose your salvation or not, let's take a look at this.

All right, here we go. He whoever comes will thus be clothed in white garments, and I will not erase his name from the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and his angels. All right, so this is the message of the Church of Sardis, which I have been to, at least geographically I've been there. So what's going on, the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. Oh, my goodness, sorry about that, folks.

He yawns today. He says, I know your deeds, what you've done, and that you are alive, but that you have a name. I know your deeds, that you have a name, that you are alive, but you are dead. Wake up, strengthen the things that remain which were about to die, for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of my God. So remember what you have received and heard and kept and repent. Therefore, if you do not wake up, I'll come like a thief. All right, but you have a few people in Sardis who have not sold their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. You overcomes and be clothed in white garments.

Yeah, I don't know what the exact issue is going on in Sardis. I don't think anybody does, and so one of the questions about this, you know, not blot his name out. Some people say, well, that means it can be blotted out. Well, not necessarily, because it might just say, and I'll not blot you out, in that you're so secure, you'll not be blotted out in the name of life, because of the culture, from what I understand, that cities or towns had books where they had the listing of the people who lived there, and when they would die, they'd cross their name out, and that's all.

And so it's just a reference, an allusion to that kind of a thing. It doesn't necessitate logically that you can lose your salvation. It just means that it will not be blotted out. Now, the corollary would be, well, if you don't keep all this stuff, then you will be blotted out. Okay, let's just say that that is the case. Does it mean that you were saved and then you weren't saved? Because that wouldn't make any sense, because then salvation is by your word, what you do.

And so there's problems with people who interpret things like that, and they don't really look at a broader scope of information and ideas and scriptures related to a particular thing. All right, let's see, question for now. Oh, Ernie's going to call in here. Let's get Ernie on the show.

He helps us out with CARM, does a good job too. Ernie, you're on the air. Hey, brother. Hey, brother. Can you hear me okay? Oh, man, I do. How you doing, buddy? Good, good.

Doing well. I've been listening to, and I know I talked to you about it the other day, some Chuck Missler sermons. First, I'd like to know what you think of him before I go into my question. Oh, yeah, I used to go to Chuck Missler's Bible study at Big Calvary in Santa Ana.

It's out of California. I went there lots of times. And I've heard hundreds and hundreds of hours of his teaching.

I think he's really good. And we've got a break, because he's got to hold on. Okay. Hey, folks, be right back after these messages if you want to give me a call.

All you've got to do is dial 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. My voice is deepening a little bit, because I'm developing a chest cold, and that's what happens, so my voice gets even deeper. My wife likes it when that happens.

So, anyway, hopefully it won't be that bad. And let's get back on the air with Ernie. So, Ernie, welcome.

You're back on, buddy. Kind of like the Christian version of Barry White. Yeah, my wife, she likes it sometimes when I get a chest cold. My voice will really deepen a lot further than even what it is right now.

And I'll talk to her, and she just goes, oh, I like that. So, okay. My. Yeah.

All right. So, I'm doing a tour through the Chuck Missler series on Jude, and it's really interesting. He's in Jude 6, and he was talking about, well, actually, Jude 1-6. He mentioned the exact scripture. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. So, Jude 1-6. Actually, just so you know, it's just Jude 6.

There is no one or two. It's just one chapter, so they just say Jude 6. You know, that's a good point. That's all it is. Yeah. It's like Philemon. Same thing with Philemon. When he looked at 2 Peter 2-4, and when using those two scriptures, he's implying that he believes that the angels that were, you know, kicked out of heaven with Satan are now bound because of the way those two scriptures.

And he used another one that I can't recall right off the top of my head. But that they're bound. And he says he's going to go into his next sermon, and he's going to talk about, you know, who does that leave us? Who are the demons that we deal with on earth? Mm-hmm. And I was just curious to get your thoughts on that, because in my mind, and I think me and you have had discussions, and I've heard you talk about the possibility of the Nephilim, the flood, them being removed from their bodies through death, different theories like that.

Right, yeah. Do you think that the angels that fell with Satan are bound? What do you think the demons are?

I think some of them are bound. And the other place he's probably talking about is 1 Peter 3, I think, let's see, verse 18 and 19, 19, in which he went and made proclamation of the spirits now in prison who were disobedient when the patience of God kept waiting the days of Noah. So, some think that those spirits are the Nephilim, the half-breeds, between the fallen women, I mean, before the fallen angels and women, and they produced offspring. And the flood came and destroyed them, and that they were the released spirits, and so they're called demons. That's one of the theories.

I think there's some, there sounds some merit to it, too. I can't prove it's true, but it just, it does kind of fit. And so, then, when you go over to 2 Peter 2, 4, that God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell. So if they're in hell already, it says there's a judgment already going. Well, then how can the demons or those fallen angels be in hell but also be on the earth? So there seems to be a group of them that are in hell and a group that are allowed to work on earth. And the demonic forces also are allowed to work. Then when you go to Jude chapter 6, and angels who did not keep their own domain but abandoned their proper abode, he is kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day.

So that looks like they are either going to be released and have a run at being bad, or they're under bonds and then will be judged on that great day and cast into hell. So there's variations in here, and I don't know how to make them all, I mean, I know I can make them fit, but I can't prove that any particular theory is the right one. Okay? Okay. Okay.

I appreciate it. I just wanted to hear your thoughts on it as I'm diving deeper into it. I find it very intriguing. And the book of Jude is really deep. Oh, it is very deep.

It is very deep. In fact, I've listened to hundreds of hours, like I said, of Chuck Missler, and I've learned a great deal from him. And so I've learned a lot from him, commentaries over the years. There was a time when all I would do was study, and I'd just listen to his tapes, other tapes, read commentaries.

I mean, I would be at work, and I'd be working as a mechanical draftsman, and I'd have my Bible commentary open on a desk down a foot lower than my table, and I could look over, read a couple sentences, think about it while I was drafting. I mean, I was always studying, always learning, and he was one of the guys that I would learn from. So him and Walter— Well, right now, that's kind of the spot that I'm in with me having some stuff going on and not being able to spend as much time on the computer. I'm putting even more effort into listening to stuff. And when I found him on YouTube, I was like, wow, I did not even know somebody had uploaded that stuff. So anyway— You can go to— All right, well, I hope you don't get sick, brother.

Oh, yeah, I probably will, but, you know, it's no big deal. Go to, the letter K, then That's his ministry.

And it's up in northern Idaho now and stuff, but he's passed away, and his stuff was incredible. Okay? Good stuff.

That's a good link. Thanks. All right, man. God bless, buddy. All right. All right. God bless. All right.

877-207-2276. Let's get on with Giggler. Hey, Giggler, how you doing, man? Hey, Matt. Oh, boy.

You already got a yard. Sorry. I'm fighting something. So what do you got, man? What's up? Okay, man, I bore a lot of people.

I don't bore a lot of people. People don't know that you and I have talked about, what, 50 times in different contexts, but over the internet. We've spoken before. Oh, yeah. I was in my kitchen on Sunday while my wife and kids were at church, and I saw a couple of women walking up my driveway, and it hit me immediately. These are Jehovah's Witnesses, right? Yeah. So I raced right outside to meet with them, and they were older than me, so probably mid to late 50s.

I think one was probably mid-50s, one might have been early 50s. Very nice women, Liz and Lydia. And I'm thinking about doing my normal thing I do with Christians, although you probably don't think 12th-Witnesses are Christians. That's a different conversation. But I'm thinking about, hey, let's really challenge these people on their beliefs. And then as enlisting was on talk, it becomes immediately apparent that these women have found something in being Witnesses that they need.

Whatever it is they're doing, it's working for them. And who am I to take that away? Well, you're an atheist, so you have no reason. Good point.

Good point. If I were to convince them that what they currently believe is not true, let's say I go full bore and I get them convinced, let's just say, not even convinced, let's say I managed to stir up some doubts in them. Do you think I've helped them?

Well, that's a relative statement, helped, because it helped them to come out of a cult, yeah, mind control, false cult like the Jehovah's Witnesses, that's certainly possible. But they're just going to go to hell with you, you know, because they're... I knew you were going to say I was going to go to hell.

Of course, of course, you know that. We've talked about that, because you and them both don't have the Savior, the true God, and so the consequence is eternal damnation. Do you think God loves me, Matt? I don't know. Oh, I did not expect that answer.

Okay, explain. Well, because in Psalm 5-5, Psalm 11-5, he hates all who do iniquity, and you do iniquity, of course I do too. Oh, I do some iniquity, that's true. Uh-huh, yeah, and so there's a sense in which God can certainly hate you and have the judgment of him on you in the gravity of your mind, but then in a generic sense, yeah, he loves you. I hate you, that's one word. Yeah, it is, and that's the word that's used in scripture, hate.

It sounds like you just tried to have it both ways. No, I said in another sense, God loves everyone in Matthew 5-43-48, where he lets the rain and the sun fall upon both the good and the bad, and so there's that sense in which he loves, because he says, therefore, you know, you love one another, love, and things like that. So God loves everybody in one sense, but he has judgmental attitudes upon others in a different sense, okay? Would you agree that there are many people who would call themselves Christians, who would say that God loves all of us unconditionally? No, it's not true. Most Christians are nice to one another.

It doesn't matter if it's true or not. Would you agree that there are people who call themselves Christians, who believe that God loves us all unconditionally? Yeah, they're Christians, yeah. Yeah, sure they do.

I talk to them all the time. I think God just equally loves everybody, it's all up to you and your free will, and you're just biblically ignorant, but yeah. What do you think is required for one to not be biblically ignorant?

What's the minimum bar? It depends on the topic. Do you have to read it? Do you have to read the whole thing?

Well, there are so many topics and subtopics that ignorance of one might not be ignorant of another. We've got to break, so hold on, okay? Hey, folks, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276, we'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. All right, last segment of the hour, let's get on with the giggler. You still there? Yeah.

Okay. All right, so where were we? So I got distracted because you went to break, and I think it was the first commercial.

I forget which company was doing the commercial, but it was the gist of it was a parent listening to their child, practicing, was it the trombone over and over again? And I forget what specific question they asked, but I think the gist of it was, as a loving parent, how much patience do you have with your child? And I'd like to ask you that same question about the God that you claim to believe in. If he loves us, and he sees us fail, and he forgives us and gives us another chance, another chance, when does his patience run out, and why is his love less than my love for my child?

It's not less, it's far greater. But his righteousness is far greater. My patience is inexhaustible with my child, but he seems to be somebody who's going to run out of patience and punish me forever. Well, you can word it whatever way you want, but the fact is that you don't love like God does. He sacrificed himself and bore our sins. Furthermore, his justice is not divorced from his holiness and his love, and he will punish. And his patience with you, for example, is obvious. You and I have had so many conversations over the past few years here, and I've worked with you and answered questions.

We have a nice polite relationship, we don't hate each other, that kind of thing. And I've just told you many times, and you know I just tell you the truth, you need Christ, and that if you don't, you're going to go to hell. And so God has been exceedingly patient with you over and over and over and over, and for years to come probably, until you die. And his patience has run out with you.

So why would that be? What? Well, let me explain this to you. So you are a human being telling me there is a, let's do the air quotes, magic man in the sky. No, we don't say magic man.

And if I believe in... I reject magic man. When you say magic man in the sky, I'm not even going to let that go, because this is not how it works. He's not a magic man in the sky.

It's disrespectful, and it's misrepresentative. Okay. There is an all-powerful deity. The Christian God is the only one we're talking about here.

So go ahead. Right. Okay. There is a Christian God. I'm glad you believe that. Right.

Right. So you're a human telling me there exists this Christian God, and I'm saying, Matt, I'm not sure I believe it. You say, listen, Gigler, here's the thing. If you believe it too, before you die, you'll get this big reward and avoid a punishment.

But the cutoff will be the moment when you, if it's true, would have evidence. Why is the Christian religion designed like a scam? Designed like a scam. So wait a minute. See how you're wording things?

I think it blends with the heart, the mouth speaks. You rebuke God. You rebuke the atonement. You insult it.

And you have the nerve to come on and talk about it as a scam. Don't you realize that you're just manifesting the judgment and the evil in your own heart? I'm not convinced there is a God, and I don't think the atonement happened. Where did everything come from? Look.

What? Everything that exists, actual potential, exists because of a causal chain, of events that preceded it. The causal chain can't go back infinitely. It's not logically possible.

There's an ultimate cause. How do you know? You're smart enough to already know this.

We've already discussed this. You can't have an infinite regression. I know how I know things.

I want to know how you think you know. You mean the issue, the logic of an infinite regression of causes? Why can't things go back forever? Because in an infinite amount of time... Let's say... You just asked. I'm trying to answer. You just asked. I'm trying to answer you. Let's say... Because if an infinite amount of... Go, go, go, Giggler, hold on. You asked me a question. I'm trying to answer you. Why can't it have an infinite regression of causes? Because to get to now, an infinite amount of time has to be crossed to get to now, but by definition, you can't cross an infinite amount of time.

Okay? Simple. Let's say that I am an all-powerful deity. Obviously, I'm not, but let's just say that I am an all-powerful deity, and I choose to make it so that there is this infinite backward regression. Do I not have the power to do that as an all-powerful being? God does not do that. Are you acknowledging God is weak? God does not do that, which is contrary to his nature. The laws of logic are emanations and reflections of his thinking and his mind. God can't make a round...

I think what you're... I'm trying to explain stuff to you, okay? He can't make a round square. I was going to paraphrase for you. What you're saying is God can't do things that you won't let him do.

That's not it. You're not listening. See, you don't listen.

I've talked to you so many times and told you these things. Look, God cannot make a round square. It's logically impossible. Why not? For him?

Yes. It's logically impossible for God to do it because it would violate his own nature. It's just not possible. It's also not possible for God to cease existing. It's also not possible for God to lie.

These are self-contradicting things. I've got a Christian friend, and whenever he talks to somebody from a different religion or different faith tradition, a different brand of Christianity, if you will, and they point out something that their God can't do, he's got this great reply. He says, well, you know, I guess my God is just bigger than yours. And maybe the thing is that my idea of what God could be, and I don't think there is one, if there was, he'd be bigger than yours, he'd be better than the ones you have. Bigger and ability are different categories, and the person who responds like that doesn't understand the logic of the categorical mistakes he's making here. So it's just not a good response. And then you should have picked up, Giggler, you're smarter than this, okay?

You should have picked up on the category error. The properties of big has to do with size, and ability has to do with that property that emanates out of the size and out of the context. It's just a misapplication.

So I'm just telling you, the Christian God does not refute himself. I think he's a little bit really big, Matt. That's what you said.

That's what he says. That's just gotten bigger. Metaphorically big. What does a metaphoric big mean? Well, for example, when I talk about a friend who does a lot of charity work and I say he's got a big heart, I'm not saying there's a large organ in his chest.

And I hope you realize that. Yeah, we know that's an idiomatic expression we're familiar with, but what do you mean when you're talking to God, okay, about God? Because if you're going to criticize a Christian God, you need to understand the Christian God.

And if so many times... I don't think there is a Christian God. It doesn't matter what you think. I have so many times I've offered to teach atheists what our position is, so at least you know what it is you're criticizing.

Because so many atheists just don't know. I think I know what I'm criticizing. No, you don't. You wouldn't say what you're saying. Let me say what Christianity is.

No, you would not. Let me say what Christianity is. Wait, wait. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

Hold on. If you understood what Christianity is, you would not have said this stuff about regression and he could make a round square. You would not have said that if you understood.

How do you know what I would do? Because the logic would make your statements impossible, because if you understood the Christian perspective that God cannot do the logically impossible, not because logic is over him, but because logic is an emanation out of his existence, his mind, and his heart, the reflection of his character. That's why we have the universal laws of logic and the universal transcendentals. Come on. You know this stuff.

I told you this. Matt, are you so eager to put limits on God? Why are you so eager, Matt, to put limits on God?

I don't know why you do that. Okay, you're not, giggler, you're not listening, okay? We're talking about the revelation of the scriptures where God is given out of the Christian worldview, which is out of the scriptures. Titus 1, 2, God cannot lie, okay? That's the Christian perspective. He cannot lie, and there are other things he cannot do. He from everlasting to everlasting, he is God, Psalm 90, verse 2. That means, then, he cannot not be God. This is just logical necessity, and what I often do with atheists is say, why don't you study what we actually teach so that you don't constantly do these straw man arguments?

Did God write the Bible on that? Aye, aye, aye. The giggler, you're not listening. You're not listening to what I just said. I make a statement, you ignore it, and you go into something else.

No, this is the same thing. I'm not moving on to anything. You brought up a Bible passage as evidence of something, and so I want to talk about the Bible and its origins.

Did God write the Bible? You need to address what I raised before you changed the topic. I am addressing what you raised.

I'm not changing the topic. I'm telling you what the Christian perspective is. You don't know too many Christians who know this theology as well as I do. I've only been studying it for over 40 years. I know what it is, and so I'm trying to tell you you're making a mistake when you talk with a Christian.

You sound like a very smart fellow. You have used the Bible passage as an argument. I want to go on from my argument back to you. It's the Christian perspective. We get it from the Bible.

I'm not saying you have to believe it, though you ought, but you have to understand we get it from the Scriptures as a revelation of God. That's our perspective, and if you don't argue from that perspective, you're not arguing the Christian perspective. You're arguing from something else. You see? Okay, that's a fair point.

Of course it is. We're trying to tell you this, so you have to understand what the Christian perspective is if you're going to argue it. God can't make round squares. It's not logically possible. He cannot stop being God.

He cannot lie. These are things that we know and have deduced out of Scripture. We know it because the Bible says so. That's right. The Bible is God's word.

That's right. We know that because the humans who wrote it told us that was the case. Don't forget the prophecies that are in the Old Testament that are fulfilled in the New, and don't forget about the patterns that are in Scripture that cannot be explained by just simple atheistic well-wishing. Come on, I've talked to you about stuff like this. I have. I suspect over the past two years we've had our many polite conversations that I've spoken to you about the universal probability bound and the problems of abiogenesis.

Talked to you about universals, and I've talked to you about the one and the many. I've given you all kinds of evidences. The Bible is reliably transmitted from then to now, and you have to be able to deal with the answers and the questions and the challenges to your position, and, Giggler, you simply just don't want to believe, and you look at whatever you can to continue to do. It's obvious you don't want to believe.

We were having such a pleasant conversation, and then suddenly you decided to tell me that you know what I want better than I do. You don't want to believe. Why, Matt?

Because it's obvious for what you're saying. You don't want to believe. You deny non-existence.

I'm going to tell you what. I'm going to give you some time to reflect on where this conversation went wrong, but I do want to end it here while it is still pleasant, because I do want to have a pleasant conversation with you, Matt. You believe in this thing.

I don't believe in the thing. We don't want to dislike each other. I don't want to dislike you. Maybe you want to dislike me. Well, I wouldn't. We're not going to dislike each other.

Don't worry about that. Come on, now. Cool. Cool, cool, cool.

Cool, cool, cool. I hope you enjoy these conversations as much as I do, because I really, really do, and what I really like is when we can have these conversations without anybody getting upset, angry, heated, whatever. I'm not angry. Are you upset? Every single time.

What I'm going to be if you're going to keep telling me that you know what I believe more than I do. Do you want to believe in God? No.

Do you? See? I just said you don't want to believe in God, and you said don't tell me, and then I ask you, and then you confirm exactly what I said. Oh, now who's upset? I'm laughing. I'm having fun. Look, I'm just telling you.

Maybe it's that thing that's coming on and sounded like you were getting upset. No, no, no. People behave based on what they believe. Not what they don't believe. You believe that there is no God. You are convinced. I've talked to you so many times. You're convinced there is no God, and the evidences, and the logic, and the rational stuff that I've given you, you've just dismissed outright.

You desire not to believe in him. I don't think that last part is there, or that part either. I think so. You've got a break coming up.

I appreciate that. No, we're done. We're done. Look, I'll be on tonight on Clubhouse in two hours. Okay, buddy? Come on. Good talking to you. All right, man. Good talking to you. All right. Okay, sorry about that, Renee and Jacob, but we've got to go. Hey, I've talked to him many times. We've had good conversations. Boy, he needs the Lord. God bless. We'll be right back with another program powered by the Truth Network.
Whisper: medium.en / 2023-07-06 14:45:36 / 2023-07-06 15:06:03 / 20

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