Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Hey everybody, welcome back. I hope you had a good yesterday and a good today. And if you're interested in giving me a call, all you're going to do is dial 877-207-2276. And I want to hear from you. Give me a call. You can also, if you are so inclined, you can email me.

Just go to your email and send it to info at karm dot org. And boy, we've got a light flickering behind me all of a sudden. Oh man. So now we got to fix that.

So there's a light for those of you who are, let me get over here. Hold on a second. Oh wow.

That is really something. Hold on one second. Okay. Well I had to fix that. Wow.

That was something that was out of reach too. I had to go out there and fix it. Okay. That's a new bulb.

Just put a bulb in there and it's sort of flickering. All right. So if you want to email me, you can do that info at karm dot org. And that is for, you know, if you have a question or a comment you want me to get to on the radio, but you don't want to call or you don't have time to call or it's not convenient to do that, you can email me and, uh, I'll often read the questions on the air and then, um, and, uh, and answer them. So we have several open lines. If you want to give me a call eight seven seven two zero two zero. Sorry. Just read people's comments with the flickering lights spooky.

Um, it's, uh, let's try to get eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. And, uh, I want to just plug the movie Nefarious again, uh, recommend people go see it, uh, read a review on it. I wrote a review on Karm. Uh, it's a Christian movie written by Christian and, uh, it's, it's very interesting.

It's in the style, exaggerated style, so to speak of CS Lewis work and screw tape letters. I do recommend it. I've already seen it three times.

Of course, it's got some theology that I really enjoy. So there you go. It's rated R as a Christian movie because of the, I assume the last, one of the last scenes and, uh, it's, uh, uh, yeah, I don't want to give too much away anyway, but it's not, well, anyway, so, uh, there you go. And what else? There was something else.

There was something else. I can't think of what it is, so that's okay. What I'm gonna do is get to the callers. Let's get to Travis from North Carolina.

Travis, welcome. You're on the air. Hey man, I figured I'd better catch up and get on a plane and come out here and get ahold of myself.

That's right, man. How are you doing, man? We got some feedback. Let's try it again. I had a problem with, uh, my other phone.

The screen is kind of whacked out on me, so it took me a minute to get ahold of another one. So any of that, man, just what I'm trying to stay busy, staying in church and do this thing. Um, I got kicked off of a Catholic Facebook page, man. You got kicked off a Catholic Facebook page? Okay. Yeah. I kind of kind of tried to trap it out and I was like, hey, I'm kind of new to this faith.

I'm wondering if somebody could explain to me Ephesians two, eight, nine Romans, three, uh, Romans three, three, four, Romans four, three, Romans four, five. Okay. And, uh, they just, they just get me off from what let me back on. Nobody ever answered me. Hey, that's okay.

That's okay. Uh, just welcome to the club. I've been kicked off lots of sites. I've been threatened. Um, I've been swatted. I've been a friend of the lawsuits.

I've been, uh, pursued, uh, you know, all kinds of stuff. Uh, and Facebook is nothing, you know, just go to another Catholic page and, uh, just continue to, uh, to, to post. I have a, uh, Facebook page called is Roman Catholicism true? And that's something you can go to and you can check it out. Um, we don't want anybody to be offensive. Not saying you're going to be that, but, uh, we always want people to be polite and have a good conversations.

And what I did incidentally on that Facebook page yesterday, I put up a graphic and that's a computer generated graphic right there on is Roman Catholicism true? So, uh, I'm learning about AI in different areas and capabilities and that's what I'm doing there. So I'm using two forms of AI now in order to further the ministry.

And after I get two down, I'll do a third and then keep going. Uh, so at any rate, so you could go on there and you can post there. And we also have forums on the, uh, we have forums dot or it's, yeah, it's forums.com.org forums. Let's see forums.com.org. You could go there and we have the whole section on Catholicism and you can go there and you could ask questions. Not a problem.

Yeah. I like, I mean, I like talking to anybody out of Canada, different religions, but you know, Islam, Jehovah's winds, all that stuff. But Catholics are just, that's my people, people in my heart.

I try my best. Well, you know, they're, they're lost. And, uh, if they believe official Roman Catholic theology, it's a sad, most of them don't and that's, they just go to the church and they don't actually know what they're being. It's like that with a lot of Christians too.

They don't know what the Bible actually teaches in a lot of areas. But, uh, that's what it is. And, um, my document on Roman Catholicism is over 160, I think it's 168 or 169 pages now. And I just did an analysis on, uh, acts 15, the, uh, Jerusalem council, uh, related to Catholicism. I just checked out your, uh, transcendental argument for the existence of God. Really impressive. Well, you know, it's there and, uh, on CARM and you can also look up the cosmological argument and, yeah, I've read that one. The, uh, yeah, all of that.

Check them out and learn them. What's your, uh, what's your call, uh, your call line looking like? My call, we have three open lines.

You have a person waiting. That what you mean? I, I, yeah, I just had two, two really quick, just, you know, seemingly yes or no, I don't probably look more about getting my question, but I didn't want to hold you up. It's okay.

What's your question? I've got a, uh, I've got a Facebook page myself that I've got going, just a little apologetic. It's just now getting going. So there's not too much on there. I've got a couple of articles. I've done, um, I, I'm not trying to get free advertisement. Um, is there any way that I could send you a, uh, uh, link to that maybe and see what you think about it and see if that's something that you could, uh, it's a Facebook page. You said it's a Facebook page. You said is that a car? Is that a Facebook page? You said I missed one word earlier. Yeah.

It's Facebook page. Okay. Just something what it is. Just go ahead. Simple apologetics stuff. Okay.

What's it called? It's time. T I M E the number for the defense.

Time for the defense. Okay. We'll have people will check it out. All right. They'll check it out.

You'll get people to sign it up and, and, uh, and stuff. All right, brother. Sounds good. And the other one was, I just, it's been a couple of weeks and I've still been looking for an email on how you're muffled. It's hard to understand you. Okay. I'm sorry. Um, it's, it's been a couple of weeks and I was, I've still been looking for an email on how to get started with logging into these schools and, uh, got anything on it.

Well, we had an emergency last week and, uh, so I was out of the office all week. Uh, so I remember and I forwarded it to my wife who takes care of it and, um, I'll have to remind her. So if you want, just do it one more time. Email me at info at calm and I'll forward it to her. Make sure she gets that so that you can do that. All right. And sorry about the delay.

Oh, no, no, no. I understand. I'll just put my name in a subject line.

You know, put, uh, you know, uh, Matt, you just put free online schools, put a little note in there, et cetera, the radio, et cetera, and then put in what your first and last name is and then put what your username you want and what password you want. Okay. Okay.

Let me set it up for you. All right. So my question is, uh, Luke 24, um, Mark, I think 16 or something like that. I know the last several verses, a marker kind of questionable. Um, uh, Jesus appearing in a different form. When the disciples couldn't recognize him, they were, their eyes were kept from recognizing him or something like that. And I understand like whenever he fed them and they could have seen the nail scars and realizes or something else. Yes.

I know you need to appear in a different form. So yeah. In Luke 24 is what you're talking about. And also the ending of Mark, but in Luke 24, it says, her eyes were beheld from seeing and recognizing him. So that's the reason for that for the exact verse, but it's in Luke 24 and uh, let's see, let me see.

And, uh, but their eyes were prevented from recognizing him. Luke 24, 16. Now when you go to Mark, uh, 16, um, in my opinion, I see I'll never preach out of that section of scripture. And the reason is, is, uh, the ending of Mark, Mark 16, nine through 20. And, uh, I don't want anybody to think that I don't trust the word of God.

I do, but I just know some stuff about this ending of Mark. And you cited one of the problems that he appeared in a different form. That's verse 12. He did not appear in a different form.

He appeared in the same body he died in. That's a, this is a problem. There's that there's the, uh, semi implication of the necessity of baptism. But, uh, in Luke 16, in Luke 16, assuming Mark 16, 16, but it's not there.

It doesn't necessitate it, but a lot of people like to use it. So those are the two issues there, but also there's a very important third issue. And that is that in these 11 verses, there are suddenly 17 words that appear there that don't appear in the entire gospel of Mark. So you have the entire gospel of Mark. Let's just say that it's a 3000 words. Exactly.

Let's just say that. And then the last 100 words, 17 new words suddenly appear. And I remember reading about this and the experts, uh, said when I said it, the non-Markan words used in a non-Markan sense. So what it seems to be to me is that the ending of Mark is, um, a, not an addition, but a recapitulation, probably from memory of a scribe who, uh, added that or wrote it in probably because one of the pages of the codex of Mark was lost.

That's one theory. The other one is that, that it seems to be a rather abrupt ending. Um, and, uh, verse eight, uh, they went out and fled from the tomb for trembling and astonishment had gripped them.

And they said nothing to anyone for they were afraid. And that's the ending of Mark. So, uh, it looks like no, someone added that stuff in. And so, anyway, I won't preach out of it because I doubt it's authenticity. Okay. So that's the argument I've heard from some people about, you know, why that, why those last 11 verses are, are accurate because it's not rational to, to think that they could have just ended with him being trembling and running away.

Yeah. But also there's two other endings of Mark that are out there that are not that are there. So here's the thing is that it has that doctrinal problem in, in verse 12.

It just does. He just appeared different form. He did not appear in a different form. He appeared in the same body. He died in John 2 19 through 21, first Corinthians 15, 35 through 45.

And you can go to John, uh, 20, 25, 28, 25 through 28, John 20, 25 through 28. And his appearance at the resurrection, he still retained the wound. So he rose in the same body. He died in to say it was a different form is problematic.

Plus those 17 non-Markan words that appear there suddenly in non-Markan sense. So I won't preach out of the text. Okay. All right. Um, I appreciate it, man. I'm just don't get to thinking I'm falling back, man. I'm just working my butt off. You keep it up, man.

Keep doing it. All right, buddy. Here's the break. All right. God bless.

Well, that was Travis. We have four open lines, eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. We'll be right back.

Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all I got to do is dial eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. All right. Hmm.

Interesting. All right. We're going to give him a call. That's what we want to do. And you can also email me at info at karm.org and, uh, if you've got a question or comment, email me and get up to it on the air. Let's get to Jim from North Carolina. Jim, welcome. You're on the air.

Thank you very kindly, Matt. You are very, very, very near the end of your show on yesterday, there was someone who asked a question relating to perhaps some other religious belief, or perhaps he was even an agnostic or an atheist. Nevertheless, you answered him and disarmed him very, very skillfully. Actually, I missed much of the dialogue of the question and answers between the two of you.

And I'm wondering what precipitated all that question. Will you be kind enough to maybe summarize it or tell me what the guy was asking? I don't remember the call. What was the, maybe just remember, remind me, what was, what was I saying? That's the problem. I don't recall. I guess it's a problem.

You would disarm him and try to get to respond and he wouldn't respond. And at the end of the show, uh, you were waiting for him to say something and all of a sudden the line went blank, you know, you don't remember that? No, I, you know, when I do and I'm done for this show, I immediately switch off, go do something else. I've been doing radio for 18 years. So to me it's like, okay, put the shirt on, go grab a cup of coffee, you know, mow the lawn, do the radio, you know, move that over there. This is stuff I do. So I don't recall.

Maybe someone who listened could remind me in the text of one of the rooms there. We can, I can, uh, you know, you can remind me, maybe they'll tell me. Okay. Well, do me a favor, do me a favor, Matt. Will you talk very briefly on agnosticism and atheism?

You're breaking up a little bit. Comment on what and what? Agnosticism and atheism. Agnosticism and atheism.

Okay. Agnosticism is a subdivision of atheism and a lot of times agnostics will say that it's not, but it is. And the reason that it is, is because neither includes God as part of the explanatory, um, options for phenomena, truth, ethics, whatever it is. And so agnosticism says there is, they don't know if God exists or not.

Atheism is more of a positive affirmation that God does not exist, or they'll sometimes say a lack of belief, but that's ridiculous and I can get into why. So what I do when I talk to, uh, to them, atheists and agnostics is I start asking them questions, just the same basic questions. I'll ask them, uh, what their moral basis is or what their basis for truth is or whatever it is might be. Uh, I ask them how we got here.

Uh, do they believe that facts are independent of circumstances? Because these are questions that I would ask to get into conversations. And so I like to witness, uh, to them and with, or about them, uh, and stuff like that. So, you know, it's for me, it's, it's good. Yeah. I enjoy talking to them.

I don't know that helps. I'm sorry. I enjoy listening. You do good.

I'm glad you do. And you know, I've done a lot of debates with atheists, a lot of impromptu discussions with them. Um, in fact I had, uh, I was on line for about three hours last night and I was, uh, discussing stuff with atheists. Um, we had some, let's just say some interesting, interesting convos conversations about what, uh, what's going on and they weren't able to really do very well.

They generally don't. Okay. Okay. Let me ask you a question. Your broadcast is not a three hour broadcast?

No, no, no. I've done, uh, the show is one hour a day and it's from six to 7 PM Eastern time. And I also do impromptu discussions online using discord and also using something called, um, oh, oh my goodness. What did I call it? A club house, clubhouse on the phone.

And I just, it's, it's, um, desktop version is called club deck and I'll sit here at my desk and I have a wireless microphone and it lasts for hours and hours. And, uh, I have my computer in front of me, four large monitors and I have lots of resources and information. So what I'll do is depending on the topic, I will, um, you know, if it's atheism, uh, I open up my stuff on atheism.

If it's Catholicism, I'll open up my document on Catholicism. It's on science, open up my document on science. And what happens is if I don't know something, I'll go into that document, find the appropriate category and type something in, uh, research, blah, blah, blah.

You know, I needed to learn something. So I'm doing that with what's called endogenous retroviruses in the, in the human genome and how they are used by evolutionists to prove macro evolutionary theory. So I'm researching, you're reading some scientific articles and stuff like that. And it's because the atheists have prompted me to do that. So I do the homework.

They don't do their own homework, but nevertheless, so this is what I do. So it's, uh, tomorrow night, for example, I'll be online for two to three hours, uh, Lord willing, uh, tomorrow night on clubhouse. And it's, it's just a Wednesday night thing I do where it's match. Slick answers questions because my real name is Matt slick. It's not just a radio name, although it's a cool radio name match slick live.

So my real name is Matt slick. And so, uh, I use it and, um, and that's what I do answer questions and I teach bibles. Okay. I have a question. Um, clubhouse is a phone app and that's why I'm on there. Uh, a lot.

I actually, I use the desktop version called club deck, but, uh, yeah. Okay. All right. Keep doing well. God bless.

God bless. And have you been to the website, my website, calm.org? Have you been there yet?

No, I haven't. Well, c-a-r-m dot o-r-g karm.org. And, uh, let me just boast about it a little bit. It's 27 years old.

We've written thousands of articles and it's had over 155 million visitors. Okay. I can understand why. Yeah.

It's, uh, let's see. So I had 155 million, 914,045 visitors. How about that? I keep records.

I used to teach Excel, so I use Excel and I keep lots of records in Excel. So I know it well. All right. There you go. All right. Hope that helps.

A lot of info there. Thank you. God bless. God bless, man. God bless. All right.

Let's see. That was Jim. And I forgot what that call was about. I was hoping someone might, uh, remind me what it was. I want to know if it was normal to have a church service without preaching. Oh, that's what that was. And no, it's not normal to have a church service without preaching. You can happen occasionally, depending on circumstances, but no, it should be, uh, preaching.

I mean, it should be there. Ryan from Pennsylvania. Welcome. You're on the air. Uh, thank you.

And I appreciate you inviting me to call. Um, I have a question about, uh, first John two, two. Okay. Um, according to what it says, it says, my little children, these things are righted to you.

You may not send for, if any men send, we have an advocate with the father, Jesus Christ, the righteous, and he is perfect for appreciation for our sin, but not ours, uh, for ours only, but also for the whole world. Now, according to my research, Hey, we got a break. Hold on, hold on. We got a break.

Cause it's coming up for a heartbreak. So hold on and I'll put you on hold and we'll get right back after these messages. Folks, please stay tuned.

8 7 7 2 0 7 2 2 7 6. We'll be right back. It's Matt slick live taking your calls at 8 7 7 2 0 7 2 2 7 6.

Here's Matt slick. All right. And when welcome back to the show, if you want to give me a call, we have three open lines, 8 7 7 2 0 7 2 2 7 6. All right, let's get back to Orion. All right, Ryan. All right. Go ahead.

All right. I was asking about first John two, two, and it says, my little children, these things are righted to you that you may not send. And if any men send, we have an advocate with the father, Jesus Christ, the righteous, and he is the propitiation for our sin and not only ours, not for ours only, but also for the whole world, according to my studies, um, to propitiate means to set aside or to set apart God's wrath in this context, um, is propitiation only applied to the elect.

Yes. Uh, how do you get that from this verse? Because propitiation means a turning away of the wrath by the offering of a gift that's Baker encyclopedia of Bible and removal of wrath by the offering of a gift. Bromley, I said at an international standard Bible encyclopedia. So if something is propitiated, the wrath of God is removed.

If you propitiated the sin of every individual on the earth and the wrath of God is removed from every individual on the earth. So it can't be. Okay. I'm sitting here looking at your principles as guidelines for examining a passage and you use none of those principles and interpreting this passage.

And so, um, hold on. So the word propitiation, that's what the word means. So if you're going to use a verse, do you think it's a good idea to understand what the words mean? Well, didn't I accurately say that it was putting aside or setting apart God's wrath? I didn't disagree with you. Did I? I didn't disagree.

Did I? So did he set aside the wrath for every individual who ever lived according to this verse? Yes. If you're going to execute it. So then does that mean that everybody goes to heaven?

No. Well, if you're going to say that from this verse alone, that he propitiated, remove the wrath of everybody, then how could anybody go to hell if they're all the wrath from them has been removed? Well, once again, you're drawing that conclusion without executing the passage. If you're going to execute the verse, it clearly refers to the whole world, every person in it. And so propitiation clearly means, I'm sorry. What makes you think the word world means every individual?

Where'd you get that? Because it says not only ours, which means believers, but also for the whole world. Wait, wait, wait.

How do you know that? You're just, you're assuming things. How do you know ours only means believers? Well, um, clearly. Okay. Then what, uh, who is referred to as ours?

I'm just asking you, you see, I know that what you're doing, you've, you've got three things here that are important. You've, uh, rightly got the word propitiation, but you've misapplied it. Then you say ours means the, the believers, but you can't prove that from the text there. And you say the whole world means every individual, but you can't prove that from the text either. You're just, you're assuming these things. No, you can't.

Yes I can. Because, uh, the writings of John, with the writings of John, um, clearly, you know, Christ created all things. And when he says he was the true light, the lightest is off, every man that enters into the world. And he said the world knew him not clearly it was all of creation. This is a consistent usage within almost every single usage of John that when he uses the word world, he's either referring to all of creation or all of mankind.

And, um, this is, uh, with one, one exception in John six, um, then, um, the, um, uh, this is a consistent usage of John throughout all of his writings. And if you, uh, execute the writings of John, this is what you have to come to. And so, uh, you're talking a lot. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Let that's not, this isn't a show for your dissertation.

I'm asking you questions about this and you're, what you're doing is you're going to other places. Now you said earlier, just this verse. So I was sticking with this verse. So now you're going outside the verse, which is fine, but you have to understand first things first to propitiate means to remove the wrath. Did he remove the wrath of everybody in the entire world? According to this verse?

Yes. Then how can people go to hell? Um, that's a good question, but if you're going to execute the passage, wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

If it's either the, I won't get into that. So if he propitiated a sin for every individual, that means then that the sin wrath, the wrath of God upon a person for his sin is now removed from every individual. On what basis then would God judge a person and send them to hell? Again, that is not answered in this verse, but we must begin with what the verse says. So then your interpretation of that fails to account for the other issues of scripture. We know that people go to hell. You said it was a good question and you can't answer the question from your perspective.

Now, that's the first problem that you have. Now, the second one is that since you already went to other scripture, you do know that Jesus was not sent to the whole world. Are you aware of that? Of course he was. Of course he was.

No, he wasn't. Can I prove it to you? Jesus says, can I prove it to you by reading what Jesus said? Well, you're not going to prove it from the writings of John. So in Matthew 15 24, Jesus said, I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. So was Jesus sent to the whole world if he was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel? Not according to Matthew, but according to John, he was. So then are you saying, are you saying, hold on, hold on, Ryan, Ryan, are you saying then that the scriptures contradict themselves? What I'm saying is, is that the context of Matthew is different than the context of John.

And then if you're going to take the context of Matthew and impose it upon John, you're doing, I see Jesus better than not. I didn't do that. I did not impose it. No, I did not. I'm asking questions. I asked you, who was he sent to?

That's what I asked. And you said he was sent to the whole world. I simply showed you from Christ's own words that he was not sent to the whole world. He was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Matthew 15 24. So what do you, how then do you, uh, you know, enlighten your interpretation of first John two, two based on what Jesus said? Can you include because, because we're told that he was the true light, the lightest, every man that comes into the world, we're told by John the Baptist, he was the lamb of God, which comes to take away the sin of the world.

We have dozens and dozens and dozens in places that showed that Christ died, not in front of mankind, but everything that fell without them. We have it from Romans five. We have it from, okay, hold on, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Look, I've heard all this stuff. Okay. You don't understand. I've debated this issue a thousand times for decades. All right.

Seriously. So I understand your arguments. I understand it. And I know how to ask the right questions and you're not able to answer the difficult questions. Okay. So if then answer this question. If you're not able to answer the difficult questions, then answer this question. If Christ is a propitiation for sin and propitiation means to remove the wrath.

If he removed the wrath of every individual who ever lived, then how can people go to hell? Can you answer that question? Okay.

So you, you said you could answer the question, but now you can't. All right. So that's one thing I'm going to share with you. Another thing I'm going to share with you is this. This is out of first Samuel three, 14.

I'm going to start in, uh, come on, here we go. I'm going to start in verse 13. This is God told talking. For I've told him that I'm about to judge his house forever for the iniquity, which he knew because his sons brought a curse on themselves and he did not rebuke them. Verse 14. Therefore, this is God shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever. So did Jesus sack her sacrifice?

Was it to recover them? When God said it wouldn't, um, well, first of all, you are using a context of Samuel, you know, which is drastically different from what we're doing in the new Testament. God said, God said, he said there'd be no atonement for his sins forever by sacrifice or offering forever.

Does sacrifice or offering forever include the sacrifice of Christ? Uh, that's a good question. I think it's an Old Testament thinking and I don't think it's appropriate to imply Old Testament taking upon. So that's, that's two questions you can't answer. Well, you cannot, you cannot execute this passage. Yes, I can. And, and, uh, no, you cannot execute. Yes, I can.

First John two, two, and shows that it is limited to the elect. You cannot do that. Ready? No, you cannot. Yes, I can. Okay.

I'm going to, if you'll, if you'll be quiet and let me do it, I can do it. Propitiation means a sacrifice that removes the wrath. Therefore, it's logically necessary that the propitiatory sacrifice does not include every individual because people go to hell.

You've already failed to be able to answer that difficult question. Therefore, it necessitates that the propitiatory sacrifice was for the elect. When he said not only for hours only, he's talking about the Jews because John was a Jew and understood that Jesus was only sent to the lost sheep with the house of Israel because it's a covenant that God made.

Hold on. God knew, or excuse me, John knew, cause he's Jewish. He knows what the covenant that God has with Israel. Jesus was sent covenantally only to Israel. Israel broke them.

Would you let me finish? And Israel broke the covenant. So we, the Gentiles are grafted in. This was a prophecy that was made in Genesis 12, 3, where God said in you, to Abraham, in you, all the nations shall be blessed. And Paul quotes that in Galatians 3, 8, and calls it the gospel. See, and it's a whole world.

It means all the nations, not just a Jewish nation. That's what's going on in Perchon 2, 2. My understanding makes sense. I'll give you one more chance after the break. We'll be right back after the break and let's see if he can dig himself out of this logical conundrum.

He's got himself in. We'll be right back folks. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Robert, welcome back to the show. Let's give another couple of minutes. We'll move on. Ryan, are you still there? Yes, I am.

Thank you very much for letting me hang on here. Um, you talked about the, um, the, that, uh, he was saying it's not just for the Jews only. Well, the covenant was never for just the Jews only because Ruth was a part of the covenant. The Ninevites of Jonah was part of the covenant and, uh, they were not Jews. So it was never strictly for the Jews. So to say that he's including other people other than Jews is an inaccurate statement because it was never just for Jews. There were even people that came out of Egypt with the children of Israel that were also part of the covenant. Uh, no, not true.

You just made assumptions about things. No, because the covenant requirement was circumcision and it was requirement to, to follow the mosaic laws and the things that are obligatory inside the mosaic covenant. And the others didn't do that, but they were utilized by God because God was promising to utilize the Jews and preach the gospel beforehand. Uh, so I think you need to study covenant a little bit more accurately, but you still haven't solved the problem. If it's a propitiation for every individual and propitiation is a wrath, the sacrifice that removes wrath, then, uh, he, then people can't, can't go to hell. It's a logical problem and it's a serious problem. And if you can't answer the question that it means your exegesis is, is faulty.

Just period. That's inaccurate because I can't exegete the passage. Like I say, for our sins, not only our sins, but for the sin of the whole world. Clearly he's cleaning at least all of mankind, if not everything that's all consistent with God. So then he removed the wrath of everybody ever lived, right? So everybody goes to heaven. No, not everybody goes to heaven, but the reason they go to hell. If he removed the wrath of everybody, why does anybody go to heaven? If all their wrath is removed?

Well, once again, um, this is consistent throughout the writings of John and that is the way why, why, why would anybody go to hell if, if Jesus removed the wrath from them? I don't know. I, again, so there you go.

That's, that's a demonstration that your exegesis is faulty. I can answer the question and I've shown it, but you're not able to do some more research, right? We're going to move along. We've got callers. We've got issues, but, uh, you need to study more on this issue. Okay.

Seriously. Thanks a lot for calling. Let's get to Ron from North Carolina. Ron, welcome.

You're on the air. Yes, sir. I was wondering what is, I've been running through the Romans. I come to seventh chapter. Uh, what is Paul's exactly talking about in the seventh chapter? You know, I know he's talking about the law, but it's not the Old Testament law he's referring to.

Uh, yeah. Um, he, cause you'll, what he does there is he speaks on the issue of marriage and that the law has jurisdiction as long as a couple is there. And when one of them dies, then the other is freed from the obligation of that law requirement in the, in marriage. So my wife and I, for example, tell death do us part. And so we're obligated to stay married through thick and thin, et cetera. But when one of us dies, the other one is no longer under obligation to keep the covenant faithfulness to that person in a marriage sense. And then Paul is using the illustration there to demonstrate that when we died with Christ, Romans six, eight, we're crucified with Roman, uh, with Christ, Romans six, six. So if he died with him and also Colossians two 20, Colossians three, one through five talks about this. So if you've died with Christ, we've died. Therefore the law has no jurisdiction over us. And that's what it means. Okay.

Okay. And also involved in this is what a doctrine that not many people are familiar with called federal headship. Federal headship is the teaching that the male, not the female, but the male represents a descendants. This is exemplified in the garden of Adam and Eve. When Adam and Eve sinned, she sinned first, she gave the fruit to Adam and then he ate. But sin entered the world through Adam, not through Eve and not through both of them. Romans five 12 sin entered the world through one man. And furthermore, when they were hiding, the pre incarnate Christ came and said to the man, where are you?

And it goes to other areas. Talk about this and Romans five 18, Romans five 19, first Corinthians 15, 22 Hebrews seven, seven through 10 talks about this doctrine of federal headship of male representation. And that's just what's in the scriptures. So we were in Christ and the term in Christ is a term of federal headship, the term of federal headship of representation. So we were in Christ and therefore we were crucified with him. That's what Romans six eight says. Our old self was crucified with him and Romans six six as we died with him.

And so these are the verses that are, it's a Colossians two 20, I believe for if you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world and then go to Colossians three, for you have three, three for you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. So what, uh, the Paul is doing is referencing this idea of federal headship of representation. And when you go to Romans five 18, uh, just as through one transgression, that's Adam sin, the resulted condemnation to all men. So also through one act of righteousness, the result of justification of life to all men. It's a very sophisticated verse. I love to talk about that and teach that verse, but it's a, it's a verse that shows federal headship. So this is what's going on. So in light of all of that, when you go to call to a Roman seven, after having gone through Romans six and I'm teaching through Romans six right now on a Thursday night Bible study verse by verse.

So we're going through this. I'll be going through Romans six versus five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, probably maybe through 12. And I'll be discussing the issue of federal headship and which is a very important and repeated doctrine by Paul, the apostle in the book of Romans. So when he gets to, to Romans seven, he's talking about our freedom because we died to the law in Christ. And since he died and we were in him, we're freed from following the law as a means of salvation and pleasing God because Jesus pleased God through his keeping of the law.

First Peter two 22. And therefore, since we are in him and we have faith in him, we are seen to be in him. And the law doesn't have any power to destroy us anymore. And one last thing to talk about that in first Corinthians 15 56, the sting of death is sin. And the power of sin is the law.

So since the law has no jurisdiction over us, it doesn't have the power to kill us to damn us. Okay. Right. Yes, sir.

I hope that helps. Okay. Okay.

Yes, sir. All right. All right, brother. God bless. Okay.

God bless you too. All right. So we got an email and thanks for the, uh, the rant from cigar head in, uh, in rumble rumble. If you want to watch the show on rumble, you can do that. Go to rumble.com and forward slash car. It's users forward slash Karm org.

Let's go to rumble type in Karm org or Matt's like usual to find the show. Uh, so this issue of first John two, two and, uh, the previous caller. Now you may not agree with, uh, the doctrine I'm teaching, but if you are or not, that's okay. But there's an issue of logic that needs to be dealt with.

And I use this issue of logic with people all the time. And when we talk about what sin is, for example, sin is breaking the law of God. First John three, four. That's what it says. Sin is lawlessness.

All right. And, uh, we know that Jesus canceled the certificate of debt by naming it to the cross. That's Colossians two 14. Well, I asked people, I say, look, sin is a legal, uh, issue, right? Not just legal, but it's definitely legal. It's breaking the law of God. They say, yes, that's correct.

Okay. And Jesus said in the cross in John 1930, he said to Telestai, it is finished. That's a legal statement.

Actually, the word to Telestai has been found written in ancient documents, a tax receipt, signifying a debt that's legally paid and they'd write to Telestai. And so, okay, we get it. So Jesus bore our sin in his body and the cross first Peter two 24. That's what the Bible says.

All right. Now the wages of sin is death. Romans six 23 and people die. Now the ultimate death is damnation. The physical death is the manifestation and the effect of sin upon us. And it's the consequence of it. The effect, the sins been forgiven and yet we're going to physically die, but we won't eternally die.

We won't eternally be damned. Okay. Anyway, so here's the thing I ask people. I say, if a debt is paid, can you be held responsible for it?

And they'll say, well, no. Okay. So if he died for your sins, that's paying the sin debt, right? Yes. Well then did he pay the sin debt for everybody who ever lived? People say, well, yes.

Well then why do they go to hell? Well, he didn't accept it. And I say, you're not hearing me. If someone pays off my debt at a restaurant or at a car loan place or wherever it is, and if that's paid off and I don't know about it, the debt's still paid whether I'm aware of it or not.

And if I finally find out about it, I get angry. I don't accept that. Well, suddenly the debt doesn't become real again. Oh, I don't like it.

Oh no, now it's real. It doesn't work like that. The debt's gone. Whether you accept it or not or like it or not or receive it or not is irrelevant to the fact that the sin debt is removed.

The debt that is. We carry this into the issue of the legal debt that Christ paid. If he paid for every individual sin who ever lived, then the sin debt's gone. Then how can you be judged to damnation? And the common response is, well, you've got to believe. Well, belief is a command. And if you don't believe, it's a sin. Is that sin paid for?

And they'll often say, well, no, not that one. I'll say, show me where it's not paid for. Because if it's not paid for, then you still got a problem.

Because if someone was an atheist and became a Christian at 50, all those years of unbelief aren't paid for because it's disbelief, right? See, you can't have it both ways. And all I do is use simple logic with people. And it ties them in knots when we come into this issue. And the purpose isn't to embarrass them.

It's not their purpose. The purpose is to show them God knows what he's doing. He knows what he's doing. He doesn't make any mistakes. The blood of Christ is sufficient to save all people.

No problem with that. He's God in flesh. It has that power to cleanse everybody. But did he bear the sin legally of everybody?

That's the question. Now, in 1 Samuel 3.14, God says, he says, I've sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever. So God says the sacrifice will not work for him, any sacrifice, forever.

Well, okay. Then that means the sacrifice of Christ couldn't have cleansed him of his sin. At my conclusion, I don't think it's a stretch. And I ask people these questions and I'll say, well, how big do you think God is? Do you think he's going to waste his effort? Do you think that he's going to be begging people to come in, that he paid their sin debt, now it's up to them and their wisdom to come to him and then make it active? How arrogant to say that an unbeliever in his sinfully enslaved wisdom then activates the sacrifice of Christ and then makes it effective to him.

In other words, look what I do. I'm the one in my wisdom and I'm the one by faith activates the atonement of Christ and then it becomes effective on me. To me, that's just arrogance.

It is. And I believe it's a form of foolishness. And so we have to understand the propitiatory sacrifice of Christ is effective because of what Christ did, not because of what you did. And he bore the sins of his people.

He paid for them and all who trust in him had their sins paid for and was ordained from them forever ago. And we can get into that in another show. I hope you enjoyed that. I hope it wasn't too difficult and too challenging, but maybe it was challenging.

I hope that's not the case. May the Lord bless you and by his grace be back on there tomorrow. And we'll talk to you then. God bless. We'll see you. Bye. Another program powered by the Truth Network.