Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by Truth Network. If you want to give me a look at your opinion on your And I got another email I just discovered from the guy who debated the Muslim guy. He won't let things go.

He's got to have the last word, he's got to have the upper hand. I scanned through this email, it's going to be a lot of stuff for me to kind of respond to him and turn him into articles. And he actually talked about, he actually said, you didn't expect to have someone like me that you would debate.

You weren't prepared. It's someone who is knowledgeable like me. Who? Whoa.

This guy. That's what Islam does. It does that to you.

It makes you prideful. So that's what I've seen with Muslims. But that's that, so I've got that to do. Also I'm editing a book and also, oh man, I'm working on a school of hermeneutics, how to interpret scripture. And I'm way behind on answering emails and voicemails.

I am buried. So it's just going to take a long time to get to stuff. Plus the holidays are here.

So that's what it is. Look, we've got nobody waiting right now. We've got nobody calling. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to check in the inbox. Nobody's emailing me. If you want to email me a question, you've got a question about anything, all you do is dial or just, excuse me, email info at karm.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. And I'm going to get some hate mail because we do hate mail on Fridays. For those of you who might be new, I'm a Christian apologist.

I defend the Christian faith, excuse me, the Christian faith and been doing it for almost 18 years now. On January 2nd, it'll be 18 years, I've been doing radio five days a week and two years before that, one day a week, so 20 years of radio. And I was in a chat room talking with someone in VR and you have avatars if you don't see what it really look like. And I was talking and someone said, you know, you have a radio voice.

And I said, that's what people tell me that I have a voice for radio, but they also save a face for radio. And they chuckled. I was really surprised. They thought that was funny.

So Randall Dobbins wants hate mail. Oh, man, look at this. We saw a tad of Clubhouse last night for the first time. It was a mess. Did you see me in there, Joanne?

Did you see when I was tackling the atheists and I was calling them on the carpet on their mistakes and everything and they had to have an excuse to get rid of me. So this one, I thought this one woman was named Godless Girl. I just thought it was her. She goes, don't insult me. It's nothing. Pay attention to my name. I said, well, whatever your name is, that's disrespectful. And I'm like, OK, what's your name? And I remember all her name until I'm walking back and forth in the office with my headset talking. And so I said, yeah, well, whatever your name is.

And she goes, that's it, you're gone. It was going to crack me up because I was answering them. I mean, I'm telling you, I was giving them logic, giving them answers. That's not our world view. You don't understand the position. You don't feel like this.

If you guys want, I'll teach it to you, but you don't understand what that is. And if I use logic into your position, here's the problem with what you're saying. And so I get this. One of the arguments was, how do you know, man, how do you know that you're not a good Christian or just brains in a vat? They were your brain in a vat someplace. So I said, OK.

I said, I wrote an article on that. And they were checking it out, mocking it. That's what they do. They don't tackle it, they just mock. It's so stupid.

Well, Shelby, weren't stupid. Well, they don't, but he's mock. And so I said, look, look, if it's the case, if it's the case that a Christian is simply a brain in a vat and you're talking to him, then doesn't that mean that you don't really exist? Isn't that what your position would be, atheists, that you really don't exist if the Christian's just a brain in a vat, that he's just imagining it? You don't exist. So can you show me why you exist? They did not like that. That's so stupid. I go, yeah, that position is stupid.

I just exposed it. So please convince me why, from your position, that argument, why you're real. Because if you argue that you are real, then are you against the position you raised?

And if you say you're not real, I would say it's pretty much true. You guys don't have a lot going on. You can't insult us like that. So but they, oh man, they can insult me. But if I say you guys don't have, you don't have it together, all your paws are not a litter box. Oh, all of a sudden I'm evil.

Oh man, the hypocrisy of these guys is incredible. But you know what? It takes someone who's got a few screws loose, screws loose like I do, okay? Because I obviously have something wrong with me, which is why I like doing what I'm doing.

I don't know what it is, but I do. Whew, okay. All right, let's get to Scott from Utah. Scott, welcome. You are on the air.

Hi, man, thanks for taking my call. I just wanted to ask you a question about Isaiah 53.1, and I believe that's talking about how someone described what Jesus looked like. I mean, not specifically, but in generality. And then you see all the pictures that are in, you know, Protestant and even Mormon and Catholic things of this long-haired Jesus that looks somewhat like a handsome fella. But that verse says he was, is that how you read that? Yeah, I call him, what you're talking about, I call him the blonde-haired, blue-eyed, Caucasian surfer Jesus. And that's the image that is presented, but that's not what he was, what he looked like.

We tend to make God after our own image, and the people reverse it. But he was stricken, he was smitten of God and afflicted, he was beaten. One of the theories, incidentally, is after the resurrection, we know that he retained his crucifixion wounds, because he said to Thomas in John 20, 25 through 28, he said, put your hand into my side and your finger into my wrist, or my hand.

And so, you know, his physical wounds were retained. Well, he was beaten about the face, too, before the crucifixion. So one of the theories I read that I really think was interesting is in Luke 24, after the resurrection, they didn't recognize him. The disciples did not recognize him. And it wasn't until after he broke bread and the pulling of bread apart, exposing the wrists, was where he was crucified.

Some people think that that's when their eyes were open. But at any rate, yeah, he was beaten, and it was pretty tough on him, but yeah, go ahead. Do you think that he didn't purposely have, like, movie star good looks, so he could blend into the crowd and not stand out? He wanted what he was doing in his message to stand out, more so than his looks, is how I've always thought of it. Yeah, I would agree.

I've thought about that, and I've kind of concluded that he probably was not purposely handsome, not that he was or wasn't, I don't know, but probably was not so that people would not be jealous of him, and that hopefully women would not be attracted to him in a way that would be inappropriate. So I've always wondered if that might be the case also. You know, just thinking out loud, you know, I don't know for sure. I appreciate it. Thank you, sir. Yeah. Okay.

Sure. No problem, man. God bless. Have a good day. All right.

You too. Hey, folks. Five open lines. If you want to give me a call, all you've got to do is dial 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call, and we can blab, or if you want, what you can do is email me at info at karm.org, and I can read your emails over the air if that sounds interesting at all. Let me go check the emails here and see if we've got any, because this is kind of how things go.

It gets a little slow towards the end of the year. Nothing's coming in. I'm going to go back to hate mail. Oh, nope. Someone came in. All right, Marsha.

Let's see. A few days ago, I had seen a guy saying on Instagram saying that in 1946, the word pedophile was changed to homosexual in the Bible, which makes no sense to me because I never knew either word was in the Bible. No, not pedophile, but homosexual was a word coined, I think it was in the 40s, 30s or 40s, and so the word was not in common use. The Greek word for homosexual is arsenicoidos, and it means man better, someone who goes both under man instead of a woman, and that's homosexuality. When the word became known, became used, they go, oh, there's the word for what we're going to translate it as, because that's what it means, and that's all that was going on. You can say, yeah, that's right.

No big deal. It's just as words develop and as vocabularies develop and new concepts are there, that it's there. I haven't researched that particular word to be able to tell you when it was developed in the English language, but it's not in the Bible, and I don't know of any instance of pedophilia described in the Bible either.

It was common in the culture of the Greeks and apparently with Arabs that Islam came out of, because Mohammed married a six-year-old and consummated their marriage at nine when she was nine. So there's talk about that and discussions about that kind of a thing. So anyway, there you go. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276, all right, we don't have anybody waiting, and that was that for that. So we're waiting. You can email me and I can get your question on the air, info at karm.org.

You can give me a call or you can email me. Hey, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Hey, I just want to remind you that we're doing an end-of-year matching fund drive, so if you want to support this ministry, all you got to do is dial...

I keep saying the same thing for so many years. All you got to do is go to karm.org forward slash donate, and all the information you need right there is at your fingertips. We ask $5 a month. It's not very much, and if we can get enough people doing that, then we can meet our bills.

Let me just tell you that... I might not say too much, but the economy's really hit us, and one of our guys is having to look, let's just say, and the finances are an issue, so we are hoping that we can raise what we need and do what we need in order to further the kingdom and hopefully also stay on the air, because that's just what it is. We're just trusting God through all of it. So if you want to support us, remember karm.org forward slash donate, and anything that you donate this month will be matched with a matching fund drive going on. So there you go. Hope that is helpful, and may the Lord bless you, and let's get to the callers.

Let's see. Let's get to Doug from Raleigh, North Carolina. Doug, welcome.

You're on the air. Yeah. Matt, I had a quick question.

My kids are just getting deeper and deeper into scripture, and I need some hermeneutics, and I need some really good resources for the exegetical part, mostly cultural, surrounding the biblical times. Okay. In that case, let me get...

I've got some... There's some culture books. Let's see. Christianity, if I've sorted these through these yet, let me see. Customs is one of the things. So the manners and customs of the Bible by Freeman is good, by Freeman, okay? So that's good. I would check that out.

And let's see, let's see, let's see. Handbook of Bible Manners and Customs, oh, that's pretty much the older one I have. And then another one is Manners and Customs of Bible Lands by Fred White, W-I-G-H-T, W-I-G-H-T, Manners and Customs. These things are worth going through.

You pick one of them and just go through, and you can even read it with your kids or study with them and stuff. Because the culture's really important. For example, when Jesus gets us the blind man, he starts to see, and he says, I see dead men, I see men walking as trees.

What does that mean? Well, in the culture at the time, the people would, certain workers, would walk up into the hills, and then they would take twigs off of branches of trees, and they would bundle them together with a cordage, and then they would crawl underneath them and then lift them up and carry them on their back, and they'd be like 10 feet in diameter. These things were huge. They could balance them.

And they would just walk down the hill, men walking like trees. So he would see this kind of stuff, and those kind of things are in there. Very, very useful. Very, very helpful. Okay? Thank you very much. All right. There you go. God bless. All right.

Okay. Let's get on the air with Bobby from Kansas. Bobby.

Welcome. You are on the air. Bobby. Hey.

Hello, man. Oh, it's Robbie or Bobby. Robbie. Okay. Now I see it. Sorry about that. Okay. All right. What do you got, man? Hey.

I just wanted to give you a call, and I appreciate your program. I've been trying to listen whenever I get a chance, and I just had a question. I know you're probably familiar with the group called The Way. I saw a lot of them back in the 80s. They used to have those green bumper stickers with the Bible on them, The Way International, I think they called themselves. And I haven't seen anything or heard anything about them for quite a while now. I was just wondering if you knew, did they gravitate maybe to another type of a group, or did they fall off the radar, or what's going on with them? It was founded by Victor Paul Weirwell, and he died.

And so it just gradually kind of fell out. So there are still members of them, actually, I've encountered them, but not for over 20 years. So like you, they seem to be far less prevalent. And they look like they're going by the way side, no pun intended, so that's good. Okay, well I guess that is good, because I know that they did not believe that Jesus is God.

Right. That's right, it's a non-Christian kind. You probably have a lot of information on your CARM site about their doctrine. Actually not a whole bunch. They are just, think of Jehovah's Witnesses. They deny the Trinity, they deny the deed of Christ, deny the Holy Spirit's deity, salvation by works along with faith, things like that. The same old thing.

And they have different kinds of arguments. Now they're still around, but I've not encountered them hardly at all. So I don't know. Yeah. Let's see. Okay, what about Harold Camping, a few years ago he had a big date set for the return of Jesus Christ, and that pretty much fell off.

They had all kinds of trucks and billboards, they must have spent a lot of money advertising this certain date, and then that date came and went, and he basically fell off the radar too. Yeah. That's why you should not set dates. As a matter of fact, the one that I ran into, there was a lady sitting in a truck of one of those advertisement trucks, and I pulled up next to her and I started talking to her, and I said, I'll tell you what, why don't you give me your phone number, so I'm going to call you the day after that date and see how you're doing, and she wouldn't give me that phone number. Yeah, of course not.

Yeah, Chuck Smith actually gave an opinion about when it would occur as well, and I tell people no, if you're pre-Trib rapture, then you can set dates, if you're post-Trib rapture, you're far less likely to do that, I'm post-Trib, and there's certain things that have to happen beforehand, and so I don't believe the rapture is... You're post-Trib rapture? Yes. Uh-huh. Okay, okay.

Well, okay, I just wanted to give you a call. We were sitting here just kind of killing some time, I thought, I'm going to give Matt a call and ask him about that, so anyhow, I appreciate your program and you have a Merry Christmas, okay? You too, Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, amen. Good for you. Thank you. All right, Robbie, God bless. All right. God bless you. To Jamie from Utah, Jamie, welcome, you are on air.

Thank you, Matt. Yeah, I have a question, and it's just a mini question, or simple question, I guess. Elijah, in the Old Testament, the prophet, it says Elijah's a Tishbite, now was he not an Israelite, or what is a Tishbite, I guess is my question. Ah, a Tishbite, I'm going to read this, native of Elijah the prophet, native city of Elijah the prophet and his inhabitants, it's just a location, so the Hebrew form of Tishbi in 1 Kings 17, 1 prompted the King James to translate it as the inhabitants of Gilead, so it's just a city that he was involved in, just like Nazareth, Jesus from Nazareth, you know, and so Elijah was from Tishbe, so he was a Tishbite.

Oh, I got it, okay, then it's not his, it's not his, so he was an Israelite then? Oh yeah, yep, Tishbe. Okay, that's my question, thank you. Alright, well God bless, okay, there we go, we have four open lines, 8772072276, you can also email me at info at karme.org, we had a couple of questions that came in there, so we'll get to them after the break, we'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 8772072276, here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome back to the show, hey, just want to remind you, we're keeping ourselves on the air and the lights on with your support, all you've got to do is go to karme.org forward slash donate, we're doing an end of year matching funds drive, so whatever you support us with will be automatically doubled, it's easy to do, karme.org forward slash donate, let's get to Danny from Charlotte, North Carolina, Danny welcome, you're on the air. Hey, how are you sir?

Doing alright, hanging in there man, what do you got buddy? I've been reading a lot on Mormon doctrine and theology, just trying to understand how to engage them better, can you help me understand about pre-mortality, how they say that we were spirit beings before we came here to earth? They say that, so in Mormonism there's what's called intelligences, the intelligences are basically eternal, I've heard different things from Mormons but basically they're eternal, and somehow, somewhere God, a first God or whatever, even the Mormons don't know, became God and then this process of intelligences is moved into the work of physical relations that God and his goddess wife, who have bodies of flesh and bones and were people on another planet that came to this world in the heavens above earth, around earth, whatever, but he lives there in a circle called Kolob, and anyway, so the pre-existing spirits are the offspring between God and his goddess wife who have relations in heaven and make spirit babies, and so in the pre-mortal existence of Mormonism there was a disagreement, let's just say, among the spirits, the pre-born spirits though, Jesus was first born and we were all born brothers and sisters in the pre-existence to Jesus and Lucifer, and so nevertheless, there needed to be a plan of salvation, Jesus offered a plan, Lucifer offered a plan, and God the Father went with Jesus' plan, and so a third of the spirits sided with the devil's plan in rebellion and so they can never be born in human bodies, therefore they cannot continue in the process of exaltation to become gods of your own planets, and a third that decided to go with Jesus' plan, the glory of the Father, then they are born in white-skinned bodies, that's what Mormonism taught, it's not official anymore, but it's what the prophets taught, and the third of spirits that were remaining, according to the prophets in the 1800s, who did not go with either Jesus' plan or the Father's plan, they were cursed to be born in human bodies that are black-skinned, the negroes, that they are the ones who were less valiant in the pre-existence, and so they have a nice little saying, you know, the fultrum is that little dent underneath the nose and above the front top lip, that little dent that goes down, that's called a fultrum, F-U-L-T-R-U-M, and so they have a nice little saying, the children, that when you became, when you moved from the spirit realm into the physical body, God put his finger over your mouth and forget what was the pre-existence, and that's where the fultrum comes from, and it's just a nice thing to say, it's just for the children, it's a, you know, like Santa Claus kind of thing, so that's what they, it is part of their culture that they teach that, of course it's unbiblical, and Mormonism is not Christian at all, and the wildest stretch of the imagination is not Christian, so I don't know if that helps. Yeah I was just reading, and of course I believe the Bible, and it just sounded, I mean, literally like out of this world, like just weird, you know, made up fantasy.

It is out of this world, it's a spirit world, well Mormonism was started by Joseph Smith, yeah, Joseph Smith started Mormonism, and there's an absolute way to prove that he lied about it all. Now when I say this, it's not me just being mean, there is an actual way, there's two ways to prove he lied, two ways, one in the Bible and one through their own writings, and in the Bible it says that, speaking of the Father, he dwells in unapproachable light who no man has seen or can see, 1 Timothy 6.16. That's what the original says, that's what the Greek manuscripts all say, it's the same thing, there's no variances, there's no corruption, that's what it says. Joseph Smith said he saw God the Father, well, he contradicted the Bible. Well what their solution is in Article 8 is say the Bible is correct insofar as it's correctly translated.

Translation means from one language written language to another written language, well it's translated correctly, so what they do is they cast doubt on God's word to believe that Joseph Smith somehow had a vision and what they do is they pray about the Book of Mormon which is idolatry. You don't pray about something to see if it's true because they're praying against what God says to do. He says check the word, doesn't say pray about truth, but they'll say no, James 1.5, if any of you lack wisdom let him ask of God.

He's already talking to believers, he's not talking to people about a book. So that's one way to prove that Joseph Smith lied and he did. He said he saw God the Father and Jesus says no man has seen the Father except the Son or the one who's from God, he has seen the Father, talking about himself.

And as I said in 1 Timothy 6, 16, speaking of the Father dwells in unapproachable light who no man has seen nor can see. That's proof, biblically, that he was a false prophet, he lied. Flat out proof all of Mormonism is false because it's based on the first vision of him seeing the Father. That proves Mormonism is false, period. Mormonism reject that proof because they go with their feelings, not God's word and that's why they're so greatly deceived because the demonic forces around them are allowed by God to work upon them through their church, through their people to deceive them even further because they do not respect God's word, they do not hold his word and his truth where it needs to be.

So that's demonically inspired, their stuff is. Now there's another way to prove that Joseph Smith flat out lied. He said that he translated the Book of Mormon by the power of the priesthood and he had a stone from the German thummim and that the stone he would put in a hat and then he supposedly had these plates, these golden plates, that's a whole other problem, but anyway, he had this stone and he would look at the stone, put the stone in the hat, put the hat around his face, it was a curtain between him and Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith would then say one letter at a time of the translation of the Book of Mormon, which is what they get in English, the Book of Mormon, which incidentally is the same manuscript that Solomon Spalding had because the witnesses who knew Solomon Spalding, a Presbyterian minister in the 1820s and 30s, they said, hey, what Joseph Smith's book is, is the same thing that he wrote and Solomon Spalding's manuscript was in a printing press geographically very close to where Joseph Smith was.

There's all kinds of stuff in history that Mormons ignore, but nevertheless. So he said he translated the Book of Mormon with the power of God through the seer stone where he put the stone in the hat, his face over the stone, I mean over the hat, blocking out the light and then God would illumine one letter at a time and then he would repeat it and Oliver Cowdery would write it down and that's how the Book of Mormon was given. So in the 1830s there was a traveling museum going from Egypt stuff and this guy was showing mummies and Egyptian papyri, they were real Egyptian papyri. Joseph Smith said the Egyptian papyri were the Book of Abraham and so he bought it for like $3,000 or $2,000 or $3,000, I forgot which, and said this is the Book of Abraham. This is from ancient Egypt but it's about Abraham and stuff like that and it's Reformed hieroglyphics which there is no such thing as Reformed hieroglyphics which Mormons have now said. But at any rate, he said he translated the Book of Abraham with the same authority and the same power he did the Book of Mormon.

The same. Now the thing is that papyri was lost until roughly 1966, 1967. It was found in a library, in the basement of a library, and it has Joseph Smith's handwriting on the back. There's absolutely no doubt it is the same manuscript that Joseph Smith held in his hands and supposedly translated the Book of Abraham from. Even the Mormon church admitted that's it, it's the same one. The Egyptologists have then been able to translate that document of hieroglyphics, they know what language it is, it's Egyptian, they can translate it, they can do it. And it has absolutely nothing to do with what Joseph Smith said it was. Absolutely nothing.

He wasn't even close. And so now what the Mormons say is, well, it was just used as inspiration for the Book of Mormon. So what they do is ignore scripture, they ignore facts, and they believe in themselves, their own feelings. And so this is why Mormons are lost and deceived when they die, because they believe in a false God, and a false Christ, and a false gospel.

This is why they will be damned eternally if they don't repent and come to the truth of God. Okay? All right, there you go. All right, there you go.

All right, God bless. That was Danny from Charlotte. By the way, if you're Mormons out there and you want to know what Mormonism really teaches, let me tell you, in Salt Lake City, in that area, in Sandy, Utah, there's a good friend of mine, Bill McKeever. And he has a radio show, I think it's daily, 15 minutes in the morning. Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson, they both do this, they're friends of mine. These guys are fantastic.

They know this stuff very well. And it's mrm.org, Mormonism Research Ministry, mrm.org. He's right there in Sandy, and he knows this stuff.

You can go to my website, krm.org, forward slash Mormonism, and learn there, too. Hey, we'll be right back after these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

This is Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the last segment of the show on this really neat Friday, which is December 16, 2022. All right. Hey, just a reminder, you were doing a matching funds drive for the end of the year. Whatever you support us with and donate, anything new will be doubled automatically. I hope you donate a million dollars, and I'll tell my buddy who's doing the thing, hey, guess what? All you've got to do is go to karm.org forward slash donate, c-a-r-m dot o-r-g forward slash donate.

We ask $5 a month, that would be a big help. All right, let's get to Luke from Richmond, Virginia. Luke, welcome. You're on the air.

Hey, Matt. I enjoy your show. I've been listening over the years.

Good. Just a quick question about my pastor. I've been in this church for about nine years.

I love him. I love the church, but a troubling event has occurred, and within the last two years, he has appointed and anointed ladies, including his wife, as pastors. Now, I don't have a problem with ladies being ministering and ministering beside the pastor or other people in leadership in the church, but I've got a problem with a pastor, a female pastor. Obviously, you're familiar with 1 Timothy 2, 11-15, 1 Timothy 3, 1-12, Titus 1, 6-9.

You're familiar. My question is this. I think it's out of God's order to do this.

What do you think? I think that the pastor needs to step down because he's not a proper teacher of the Word of God by having women be pastors. He doesn't understand the Word of God, doesn't understand it, and he's disqualified because the Bible says the pastor is an elder, 1 Timothy 5-17, the elder is to teach proper doctrine.

He's not doing that. Paul the Apostle clearly said a woman is not to teach or exercise authority over a man but to remain silent, for Adam was first created, 1 Corinthians 12-13. The next chapter over in 1 Timothy 3-15, he says he's giving instruction on how people are to behave in the household of God.

That's what he says. He's giving instruction on what is to be done in the church. Now if you go to Titus chapter 1, it says, For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you. Elders is masculine form there. In Greek, you can have nouns that are masculine, feminine, and neuter. These are masculine form nouns.

Appoint elders, that's like saying actors, not actresses. We don't have that many gender specific words, but woman, man, female, male, we do have those kind of things of course. So elders is like saying men elders because it's in the Greek that way. It says if any man is above approach.

Now the word here in Greek is tis, tau et iota sigma, and it is in the masculine there again. If he's above approach, the husband of one wife, and the word husband there by necessity is male. So the elder is to be the husband of one wife, and what it literally says in the Greek is on ermias gunikas, a man of one woman, a husband of one wife.

How's a woman going to be that? That doesn't work. And we can go on and on, and we can go to also 1 Timothy chapter 3 and how it begins there. It says an overseer must be above approach, the husband of one wife. The overseer, that word in Greek is episkopos. The word for elder is presbuteros. So they're interchangeably used, the elder and the presbyter. So even the elder of the presbyter here is to be on ermias gunikas, a man of one woman. And deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double minded. And so the admonition of scripture is that the people who are to be in spiritual authority in the church, a pastor is by definition an elder who is in authority, is to be male not female. Therefore, the pastor is, in my opinion, disqualified because he can't even get that right. And it's clearly taught in scripture.

So what I would do is when he's outside, sneak up behind him, stay 50 feet away, see if he's licking his finger and putting it in the air and see which way the culture's wind is blowing, and see if he's following that direction. Yeah, so quick question, quick follow up. One of the things that I heard him say, and one time he actually preached this recently, is in Acts 16 verses 1 and 27 about Phoebe, saying that she was a deacon, a servant really as the real translation, but a deacon in some translations, you know, that she brought, which historically she brought the book of Romans to Rome from Jerusalem, if I understand that right. So they're saying, well there's a deaconess right there, you know. So then what he's doing, now think about this, if he understands, as 1 Timothy 3 says, that a deacon's to be a niramis konikos, a man of one woman, then what he does, now he's going to Romans 16, 1, I commend you to our sister Phoebe, et cetera, that she's a servant, a deacon. And so he says, see, that now we'll go with Romans 16, 1, we'll ignore 1 Timothy 3. So what he's doing is setting scripture against scripture.

This is a mistake, a huge mistake he's making. Therefore, the word servant is deaconess, and it's used in many different contexts and many different ways. So what I'm going to do right now, a deaconess is 1, 2, 4, 9, 1, 2, 4, 9, I'm doing a search by that number, so every place it occurs in the New Testament, 29 places. And it says, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, your deaconess. Okay, then the king said to his servants, bind him hand and foot, throw him in the utter darkness. Okay, is that a deacon of a church?

Obviously not. Let's go to Romans 13, 4, for as a minister of God to you. That's the government, is a deacon, a minister of God to you for good. So I can go on and on, but the point is that what he's failed to do is to properly understand what the meaning of the word is, and then he has set scripture against scripture, and he has elevated women to a position not to be in a church, he's disqualified, he needs a step down.

The elders should tell him, I'd give him one chance, I'd say, we're going to correct you on this, and if you don't recant, you're removed from your office. This is serious. Thank you. I appreciate this.

I've talked to several people, including Alex McFarland and some of the other guys, because it really hurts me because I love this guy. He's a wonderful preacher, wonderful family, wonderful wife, but I think they're in error. They are in error. I've written a great deal on this, and I've taught on this numerous times, and I've defended it all kinds of ways. And I'd be willing to do a phone conversation with anybody involved, if you want to go over the arguments, do you want to go over stuff, I've written a lot of stuff on this on the Karm website, and I've addressed the issue of Phoebe and Deborah in the Old Testament, the uses of words, the whole thing. So here's the thing, people don't understand this, the trinity is the foundation for all actuality and potentiality. God has made what exists, what exists is the spiritual realm, the physical realm, but also in our minds and in our hearts, the realm of morality, the realm of cognition and thought. All this is made possible by God and the trinity is a necessary precondition for all of it. And in Romans 1-20 it says the invisible attributes, the nature of God is made known in creation.

This is Romans 1-20, His divine nature has been clearly seen. This means in the created order, the Trinitarian nature is there. Now the reason I'm focusing on this a little bit is because we have to understand what the trinity is. And in the trinity there is fellowship, there is the communion of the Trinitarian communion. Now also there's a hierarchical structure, the Father sent the Son, the Son sent the Holy Spirit, it's called the economic trinity. So we know from the trinity that there's an order and Jesus says He came to do not His will but the will of the one who sent Him.

So this is what Jesus said in John 6 37-40. So when God created Adam and Eve, He created Adam and named Adam, your man, named him. Then He created Adam and Adam, then He created Eve, took him out of the sight of Adam and then Adam named Eve, signifying his authority as the one who's the first person, the first one in the world. There is in the Jewish culture something called primogeniture.

Primogeniture is that the first born male has rights in the family that the next male doesn't have because he's the first born. Jesus is the first born of creation, etc. But nevertheless, when Adam and Eve sinned, the devil came to her and then she fell and she gave the fruit to Adam. The Romans 5-12 says that sin entered the world through Adam, not her. In fact, when they hid themselves, the pre-incarnate Christ came to the man and said, where are you? He didn't say Adam and Eve, where are you? He didn't say, Eve, what have you done? He said to the man, where are you? So he went to the man who's responsible, the man, Adam, through whom sin entered the world. Now when we go to 1 Timothy 2-12, I'm going to read it to you. Paul says, I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man.

Now this is in the context of the church because we know this in the next chapter is what he's talking about. But to remain quiet. The word quiet there is hessokia. It means keep it down. It doesn't mean absolute silence like segao means. Segao means not even a word.

But hessokia means, hey, can you be a little bit more quiet, a little bit more hessokia? That's what that means. I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man but remain quiet, for it was Adam who was first created and then Eve. So God himself is tying this authority issue to Adam.

Right there. And then Adam, who's our federal head, in him all die, 1 Corinthians 15-22, through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, Romans 5-19 says through one transgression, through his sin, the many were made sinners. Adam is the federal head.

He's a representation. So it's the authority that was in Adam. And this is why Paul says, woman's not, that's not her place. It's not her place in that church to be in that authority place because Adam was first created. That's what he's saying.

It's not a cultural thing. It's a theological thing that Paul the apostle draws out of the very created order of God himself. This pastor needs to be corrected and if he doesn't receive the correction, the elders need to remove him from the pulpit. Thank you so much, Matt. Yeah, I'm in total agreement with that. I have looked at the scriptures that you've mentioned and I have mentioned them to him and one of the senior elders over there in the church and, yeah, if I'm praying about it, you know, it's difficult because I've been there for nine years, but the sudden change, you know, who knows what else that they may compromise on. Exactly.

Thank you so much for the explanation. Exactly. Now look, let me tell you before you go, if you email me and you say, hey, I'm the guy who talked about the women pastor stuff, I'd be willing to give you my cell number and you can call me at that. If you're with those people and they have a meeting, they want to talk, I'd be glad to talk to them about it in a lot more gentle form. I mean, I'm here on the radio. I've got to rush through it because we're almost out of time.

This is a very serious issue and 80% of the churches and groups and denominations that adopt women pastors and elders, 80% within two generations started approving of homosexuality. Right. Yeah. I'd write that. Yes.

That's not bad. Okay. Okay.

What's your, what's your email? Info at karm.org info at karm.org. Okay. All right.

Info at karm.org. Thank you so much. All right.

You're welcome so much. God bless. Hey folks, what I just said was true. What I just said is strong. What I just said is necessary.

And if you go to a church with a woman pastor elder, they need to be corrected. Look at the Karm website, decide what you need to do to study and get it set up right. And if you like what I'm saying, please consider supporting us. All you gotta do is go to karm.org forward slash donate matching funds drive. Whatever you donate will be matched for the end of this end of the year here this entire month of December. I hope you all have a great evening, a great Friday, and by God's grace, we're back on the air on Monday and we'll talk to you then. Have a great one everybody. God bless you. Another program powered by the truth network.