Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at KARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live. Francis taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everyone, welcome to the show.

It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick live. Hey, if you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. Well, all right.

We got nobody waiting right now, so why don't you give me a call? And, oh, that's right. I got to make an adjustment on the, okay, make an adjustment so people can hear me in the audio area. Actually, we have something we do on, let's see, on YouTube, I guess, you know, we also do it on Facebook, where you can watch the show.

Watch me sitting here with my headset on. Not that big a deal, but people do watch. But what's really good about it is there are people in the chat room, in the area there, and a lot of fellowship.

People have become friends from it. Oh, boy. Excuse me.

Got to yawn there. All right. So a lot of stuff going on. I released an article today called What is the Immaculate Heart of Mary?

And I'll probably end up talking about that. Wow. I am so convinced that the Roman Catholic Church is so apostate. It is such a false church.

It's idolatrous. Now, I'm going to probably read some stuff later. But some of the stuff that they come up with, it's just insane. But, you know, that's what happens.

We'll just see how that goes. But if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. There's Terry. Hey, Terry.

Terry Johnson. She's great. I'll be down there. You can be taken off. I'll be down here tomorrow.

Lord, well, I'm leaving. That reminds me, I won't be on the air Thursday and Friday, tomorrow and Friday, because I'm going to travel down to Salt Lake City. And Luke Wayne will be doing the show Thursday, Friday. Hopefully, if the tech problems are all solved.

And he does a great job. And he and I and others are going to be going to the Hindu festival where a lot of Mormons go and do some witnessing and stuff like that. And then I'll come back probably Monday. That's the plan.

And we'll just see how it goes. All right. So, oh, and I want to have dinner someplace Friday.

I don't know if, I asked someone to kind of check it out. Laura, if there's a place you could find that has like a private room or something like that without a lot of noise. And we could meet someplace and just, I'll announce it or have Luke announce it. It's not a big deal to say, you know, meet Matt Slick, have dinner, something like that on Friday night. We'll see if we can arrange it. If not, no big deal.

So, that's a possibility. If you want to give me a call, four open lines, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Corey from Raleigh, North Carolina. Corey, welcome.

You are on the air. Hey, Matt. Hey. Hey, good to get to talk to you.

Good to talk to you. Yeah, man, I just never, never call. Hey, man, I, hey, I got, I got a situation. I wanted to get you a team on it. Um, I was at home landing in the bed Saturday night in my, in, in my bedroom, my, uh, camera church to let me know there was movement. Your what? What was that? What moved?

Wait, wait, say it again. What happened? I, I said Saturday night, about 1 30 in the morning, I was laying in bed, but I was still, I was still up and, um, my, I got motion cameras and you could see, they got night vision on them. One of my, my master bedroom is where I was laying at. It made the chirping noise. Like that was like, there was a movement and I'm laying in the bed. So I looked at the app on my phone and when I looked at the app on my phone, I saw a lot of orbs flying around in my room and there was no heat on or no air on or no fan going, so it couldn't have been dust in the way they were going. They were leaving like, they weren't leaving like, um, like paths and stuff.

So you can, so you can definitely fail. You can definitely tell that they were, they were, it was something, it was something supernatural because, uh, they were leaving like the trails, like the planes going across the sky and stuff when they leave the trails. And, um, so I, so I got up and went in my son's room and before I woke him up, um, I kept looking at the camera and then they were just flooding out of the ceiling. And so by the by the by long story short, um, when I left the house, I got up and packed up and left. Um, I watched the camera for the rest of the night off up to like seven o'clock in the morning and never saw not one. So I w I waited a week before I went back home. I went over there yesterday and sure enough, I turned on the lights off. That was, I thought maybe it was just something in the bedroom, but it was something, um, all over the house cause they were in my living room as well.

So they must be coming and going. Okay. You have a son, you said? How old is he? How old? 15. Okay. All right. Is anybody else living in the house with you?

You know, any unbelievers? No, my neighbors, no. And my neighbor used to own the house. She was an 89 year old lady dying from cancer. And she said, there's only, I bought the house.

She said, there's only young couples that live there. I've asked her twice. And so, um, but I get a lot of stuff from work, like the type of work I do. I don't know if I done brought something in the house. Like cause I'd be getting a lot of free stuff all the time. Like like decorative stuff.

And I don't know if I done brought some home that they got fears attached to it or maybe it's somebody that brought it in the house. Oh, well, um, are you going to church? I do go to church. I go to church.

I was better than night. Okay. Um, okay. So, uh, hopefully, hopefully the church, I'm sorry.

What? I talked to a shaman. I talked to a shaman and he said, he, I don't, I don't know too much about it, but I talked to this diamond, a priest, whatever. And, uh, he said that, uh, he talked to spirit and they said that it was a guardian, my guardian.

That wasn't family members, but it was my guardian. Okay. Let me ask you, okay, let me ask you, um, uh, what church, well, I'm not sure where to start, but, uh, shamans are, are sinful. You should stay away from them. You don't consult people who are essentially on the side of witchcraft and, and the occult.

That's what a shaman is. Okay. No, no, stop, stop.

Corey, Corey, Corey, Corey. It's bad. Shamans are bad. There's no good shamans. It's like saying there's a good witch. Okay. Doesn't exist.

All right. You're going to understand that. So you're checking out shamans, which can open doors of the occult. Even you say it's a good shaman. There's no such thing spiritually.

There is no such thing. So you could be getting involved. It could be opening doors because you're involved with the cult.

You're not doing what you're supposed to be doing. Now you've got to go to the church that you go to. Now let me ask you, does the church you go to have women pastor, women elders? Well, uh, no. Okay.

Does have women elders. Okay. You got to answer. Okay. Does the church you attend have women pastors or women elders? Okay. So it does have women elders, right?

Yeah. Okay. So you're going to a false church. Also women elders are not biblical.

Okay. Women are not supposed to be pastors and elders. So you're, you're, uh, you're in a bad shape here, man. You go to a church that's not biblical. And you consulted a shaman, which is occultic and bad.

So what you need to do is find a good church and go to my website, karm.org and you look up the article, what to look for in a church, what to look for in a church, getting the phone and you start calling us from churches and you start interviewing. What do you do? What do you say?

This? You have these questions, you know, women, pastors, and elders that they say, yes, sorry, bye. Don't go there. All right. And, uh, then you need to have the elders involved with your, with your situation.

Because if, you know, it could be a technical problem with the, uh, with the equipment, that's always a possibility. It could also be a possibility that, uh, you know, you've opened up doors because, well, seeing a shaman is really bad spiritually. It's very, very sinful, very, very bad. So you need to find a good church, but when you're going to isn't a good church because it's got women, pastors, women, elders. So you got to just forget that church.

So you're kind of stuck. You got to get it taken care of. Hey, I was going to invite him out this Sunday coming up. He said he was going to do a cleansing on the house. Wait, wait, you say you're going to hold on, hold on. You're going to have a shaman come out to your house.

Okay. So let me ask you, so, so what, what you were thinking of doing was having someone who's involved in, in the occult in spiritism, come out and help you instead of the Lord Jesus Christ. So apparently you're not being taught at the church that you're going to and you're getting really confused. So you need to find a good church. Look for something like a Calvary Chapel or a good Baptist church or evangelical free. There are a lot of good independent churches around, but you have to know what to look for.

Go to my website karm.org and look up for the article, what to look for in a church. Okay. Cause he said that he told me that there are protective spirits following around, following everybody around all the time. But I know I don't see him on the camera when I leave the house at all.

But when I come back, I look at my phone and I look there, there. You don't know that's what it is. Okay.

It's a, it's a, it's a medium. Uh, he just, it's just like spiritism, contacting the dead, contacting a spiritual forces using divination, varying things like that. It is very bad, occultic and quite sinful. You need to stay away from it.

It's bad. So what about, so what about my house back stack? Go to the house to you? I mean what?

You can go to the house, but you need to be working. Let me ask you something. Let me ask you something either. Um, you know, let's just, when you die and you go to heaven and God's talking to you and he says, why should I let you into heaven? What would you tell him? Well, what's the reason you should go to heaven?

What is it? I would say, uh, no, I ain't been perfect. No, I mean, uh, I believe in you all the time. Okay.

So you're not, you're hard to understand for one thing, but, um, I said, I said, I thought I know it wasn't perfect, but, um, I believe in you all the time and I, um, and I want to be with you. Okay. Do you know that Jesus Christ is God in flesh? Yes. Okay.

Do you know he died in the cross? Good. Good. Right. Yes sir.

And uh, do you know that he died on the cross and rose from the dead three days later? Yes. Okay.

Have you ever trusted in Christ looked to Jesus alone for the forgiveness of your sins, trusted in what he's done, received what he has done. Have you ever done that? Yes. Okay.

Yes, I have. Well, um, if, uh, see, I want to know, make sure you're saved. I can't judge that over the radio. I don't know. In person, you know, I can ask you a lot more questions, but the fact that you don't know, I'm sorry. Okay. Well, you consider yourself saved that you go to a false church and you're going to check, check out a shaman who is, is, is evil. Right, right, right. So apparently there's a church on the road. Yeah.

Don't get enabled. Yeah. Find a good church. Get it. Get involved in a good church.

Get grounded. You shouldn't be just listening to some guy named slick on the radio. You got to get involved with a good local church, a good bunch of people. So on my website, Karm, there's an article, what to look for in a church. You check that out. Okay. Give me a call back next week. All right, Corey. Okay. Talk to you later. Pray for Corey books. He really needs it.

There's a lot more to talk about, but foundations first, two open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276 right back. It's Matt slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276 is Matt slick back everybody. It's uh, let's see about 20 after the hour. We have 10, 12 minutes left in this segment.

If you want to give me a call, all you gotta do is dial 877-207-2276. Let's get to Kurt from North Carolina. Kurt, welcome.

You're on the air. Hey Matt. Um, I had a quick question. Um, it's not really like to discuss, um, or debating like flat earth or anything. I just wanted to get your thought on this on, uh, Joe, what was it?

Um, Joe 38, 14, where it says that the air fake shape, like play under a steel, it's speeches stand out like those of a garment. Uh, what do you, what does that mean? Good question. I don't know. Uh, the context, have you ever in your life commanded the morning and caused a dawn to know its place that it might take hold of the ends of the earth and the wicked be shaken out of it.

It is changed like clay under the seal. Um, and they stand forth like the garment. It's from the wicked.

Their light is withheld. I don't know. To be honest, I don't know. Uh, it's interesting.

I could do some research on it and see, but, uh, it's poetry. So I'm not sure what he's doing. And I haven't, I haven't, uh, I don't know. Good question. Okay. If someone tries to, it's kind of slide to the Hebrew, they say that steel is, I don't know, I don't know what you told him and that would, I guess, taking the fashion type of wing and filling would be like, you know, the filling clay of an envelope. They're trying to stay like the, they're trying to say the earth will be flat with the steel or, and I'm just like reading that. I'm just like, um, I don't know.

I just, you know, it was just a good, I don't know. I think about it. You don't believe the earth is flat. Do you? No, I mean, I, I just stand by whatever, whatever the Bible would say.

So yeah, the Bible does not say the Bible does not say they're flat. Okay. It does not. It does.

It's just ridiculous that people do that. So it's changed like clay under the seal. It doesn't say it is a seal, but how the earth is impressed and changed and moved the way a seal imprints upon something else. That's what's going on there. Uh, from the wicked, their light is withheld and stuff.

Um, um, I was looking at it, uh, yeah. And the wicked be shaken out of it. So, uh, that's verse 13. So are the wicked, if they're going to take it literally, the name means, it means then that the earth is flat, which is just dumb. But, uh, are the wicked then shaken out of the earth too? It means, you know, that the whole earth is going to shake and they're going to fall out of it.

Um, I don't know. I mean, if it was taken literally, I guess it was, they're trying to say, you know, um, that it might be taken by the edges and taken out the way. So that's, that's what it is. Yeah. So the problem is then they're saying that the earth can be shaken and the wicked are going to fall out of it.

That means there's gravity that's working underneath the earth, which to them would be flat and that the wicked are going to fall off the edge of the earth. I guess flatter stuff is just so dumb. Sorry, but it is.

It's just dumb, you know? Okay. Let's waste your time with it. All right. Okay. All right. Okay. God bless.

All right. Let's get to Mark from Florida. Mark, welcome. You're on the air.

Hi Matt. Um, I have a question. Um, and this comes up very often actually, uh, or especially where I live here in South Florida. Um, situations I've run into before where you have two couples and as far as I know, they're believing Christians and um, one of them wants to get divorced and the other one doesn't. And um, I've actually had them ask me, you know, what do I do in that situation? And I don't really have an answer for that.

And uh, I recently run into, I recently run into, I'm confused. You say there's a Christian couple. One wants a divorce. The other one does not. Okay. Correct. And then they asked you, is that what they did?

Yeah, I've run into that before. Um, this one particular situation recently is with my barber. He actually, um, his wife served him and he actually goes to a reform back. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. His wife serves him, served him a divorce papers. Oh, oh served in divorce papers. Okay. Okay. Served him. What does he serve him? Okay. Served him divorce papers. All right.

He goes to a reform church. Okay. Okay, go ahead.

And um, you know, I, I asked him, well, why would she do this? And he said, well, I, you know, I had a mishap with pornography and I said, well, I can repent. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm having trouble.

Hold on, hold on. I'm having a lot of trouble following what you're saying. Um, so you're saying he had, or she had a problem.

He had, he, he had a problem. He did. Okay. All right. He did. And since then, um, repent, you know, and I asked him, I said, did you, since then repent of it and stop?

And he not only repented, but he actually, he hates it for what it is. And I said, well, that's, that's good. You know, um, why, which, you know, that's, I said, I don't believe that's divorce worthy, but I want to get your confirmation on that or some insight on, on that situation.

All right. So, uh, the other questions that go along with this are if she claims to be a Christian, then the elders of the church that they go to together need to be involved. I don't believe she has the right to divorce him though. Some would say technically, uh, that's a form of adultery and then therefore she can get rid of them. Uh, that's something that the elders would need to, to talk about because usually that situation isn't by itself.

It has variations and those need to be talked about. But if it's just this one thing and he has repented of it, uh, the elderly to talk to her about this as well as him to see if true reconciliation is possible. Uh, I don't believe that that is a, um, a divorceable, uh, issue.

But you see, it's not as simple as that though, because let's just say there's, uh, either one because now, now more nowadays, more and more women are being addicted to this. Let's just say though, that this man is going on for 12 years and he's just, he's constantly doing this. Could a woman divorce him? I think there's a grounds for that at that point. Uh, I'm missing 10 years, but you know, an unrepentant kind of a thing where it's obviously an abandonment of the covenant vows, uh, deliberate and unrepentant. I think that could be justified as a type of abandonment and adultery.

Uh, but if it, depending on how long it was, how long ago it was, uh, the variables, what her status of mind is, all of it needs to be determined. And it's just not an easy one. It's just not an easy one. I'm sorry, but it's not. So I can't tell you because, well, the variations, the variation I asked about that, and I don't know exactly what you mean by variation, but, uh, it was straight cause I asked him that question, you know, are you having homosexual feelings? Are you having, you know, is it, or is it just regular heterosexual?

And he said, no, it's normal heterosexual. And I said, okay, so I don't know if that's what, no, there's things that we could talk about, but not over the radio. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. There are things often attached. Uh, and so, uh, that's why the elders need to be involved.

And, um, they just need to be involved. And it's a tough one, you know, it's, it's a real tough one without knowing a bunch of more details. I really couldn't tell you, but I get it. I get the issue.

I don't think so far what you said is really grounds yet, but it was going to be involved. Okay, buddy. All right now. Thank you. All right. God bless.

All right. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Three open lines, eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six.

Be right back. It's Matt Slick live. Taking your calls at eight seven seven two zero seven two, two seven six. Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show. Let's get to Travis from North Carolina.

He wanted to talk about the Maclet heart thing because man, is it bad, but, uh, he's gone. Hey, let's get to, let's see, John from North Carolina. John, welcome. You're on the air. Yes.

Hello. Uh, I was, uh, calling in response to, uh, I guess it was a couple of callers back and he was asking about an obscure, uh, verse in, in, uh, Joe. And while I don't have an answer to that, uh, uh, what came to my mind immediately was how in Joe, they 27, uh, uh, he talks about, uh, when he prepared the heavens, I was there when he drew a circle on the face of the deep. And to me that is like, uh, extremely early, uh, description of the fact that yes, the earth is round. And, uh, before, before we ever had anybody in space, before we ever had any satellites, uh, in Joe that talks about the circle that was drawn, uh, in the deep. Are you affirming the earth is flat? No, just the opposite.

No, no, no. I'm saying because a circle is flat. A circle is flat. A circle is, is, is flat, but it says on the face of the, of the deep.

Yeah. But yeah, and that this is just one of the arguments that the word sphere isn't used. If it was used there, uh, like a ball, then, uh, no problem. But the word circle, you know, they'll just say, Hey, it's flat. It's round. That's why they say the circle, the earth, the rap, the earth is a disc. That's what they'll say.

Well, you know, now that we actually have had people in space now that we've actually seen the earth from space. No, no, it's all a conspiracy. Oh, they say it's just a conspiracy. It never happened.

So, yeah. And so what they'll say is, is it's all a conspiracy and what was the reason? What was the reason for the conspiracy?

It was something that I forgot what the reason was. It was anyway, it's all fake. It's all CGI.

It's all, uh, there was never a moon landing and it's all fake period. And so thousands and thousands of people are in on it. It's just, yeah. So stupid. Yeah. Oh man. Yeah.

Yes. So, you know, they can, they can, they can say, yeah, it's a, it's a circle. That's, that's, that's fine. Uh, but if you, uh, draw a circle on, on, on the, on the deep, uh, the deepest is the ocean. And I, you know, I just, you know, yeah, I know.

I'm just telling you what they do. It will come up with the weirdest wildest, you know, you just think about this. Let's just say hypothetically that he had the number one flat earth there in the world, right?

And he is all the, he writes all these books and all these lectures, and all these conferences. And somebody sent him up in a, and there's a new balloon that's going to be going up in a year or two, where it's going to be $120,000, $150,000 for a seat. And it goes up to, you can see the curvature of the earth. It's just there.

It's like a six hour flight. Let's just say he goes up there and he sees the earth is not flat. It's round. He sees it rotating. He sees it moving. He sees it. He comes down. He goes, Hey, everybody, they're right. It's, it's a, it's a sphere. The flat earth earth would say, Oh, he's part of the conspiracy now.

That's what would happen. Well, um, as far, as far as the, uh, the, the moon landing, it is, uh, concerned, uh, it would have been a lot harder to, to come up with that. These days we do have the, uh, the, uh, camera effects and we do have the technology that we could make it make something like that look real. However, um, we haven't had this technology, uh, all that long, but we do have some amazing technology that could, as revelation talks about that could even fool, uh, some, some, uh, true believers in the end times. Uh, I've, I've, I've come across different things that make it look like we can actually project things into the sky.

Uh, that is images. And so I can see where there's, yeah, we can talk about all kinds of stuff, but the thing is the, the flat earthers, you know, it's like, uh, their brains are flat. They're not thinking through all this stuff and they don't care about facts. Right. It's all a conspiracy.

They interpret everything. Uh, it, it's ridiculous. It's just, it's a waste of time and they cause problems when they don't need to exist. So, okay. It's, it's wacked. Yeah. I have no, no respect for what we have to do. What we have to do is, uh, pray for them just like all the other, yeah.

Uh, sources of confusion that, uh, Satan, uh, uh, puts out there to try and cause confusion because we know that he is the author of confusion and he is the author of chaos. Yes, he is. That's right. Well, that's, that's all I wanted. That's all I wanted to communicate.

That's right. Yeah. Well, I appreciate it. I do.

I'm glad you're not a flat earth or so good stuff. All right. I definitely not. Good for you. All right. God bless.

All right. Let's get to, let's see. John from Utah. John, welcome. You're on the air. Hi man. Thanks for having me. Good. Hey, you're welcome. So what do you got?

All right. My question is, uh, what is the spirit of Elijah? Oh, the spirit of Elijah is the, the, uh, style motive and stuff that Elijah was and it was reflected in, um, uh, John the Baptist. Remember, uh, Elijah had a camel's hair mantle and so did, um, so did John the Baptist. He wears camel's hair. So since his dad was a priest, it's possible that, uh, or did that had access to the temple, worked in the temple.

It's possible that maybe Elijah's cloak of camel's hair was preserved in there and it was acquired by, by John the Baptist. Well that's nothing more than conjecture based on a couple of possibilities or some things that are true, but we don't know if it really happened. And that's what's going on. He was authoritative. He spoke, he had that, um, that mantle.

And so that's why it was prophesied. He'll come later and it's not reincarnation stuff, but that's what's going on. Spirit of Elijah. Okay. So it's not like an angel or a metaphor for the Holy Spirit or something. No, nope.

It has to do with, uh, uh, John the Baptist being a type of Elijah. That's all. That's all it is. Awesome. Okay. Thanks so much. You're welcome.

God bless. Okay. Let's get to Mike from Utah. Hey Mike, welcome. You're on the air. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. So I just want to briefly have a quick phone to pick with you because, uh, about a year ago I kept hearing you say, you know, don't trust a guy named splits on the radio. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

And at the last year kind of going everywhere. It needs to be the scripture of my thing. You're, you're hard to understand. You are muffled. Okay.

I know I had my hearing is not as good as it needs to be. Cause I've got, I've got, but yeah, it is a little bit better. Go ahead. How's that better? Oh, much better. Now you're talking. All right. Okay.

I was saying, so about a year ago, you know, I took your word, don't trust a guy named, you know, slick on the radio. I started diving into the scripture of myself really deeply. Not really listening to many people as per se, took a lot of stuff.

And my frustration is, you know, I so wanted to be right. I still wanted to be more dispensationalist. I've now kind of converted over to covenantalists.

I still wanted pre pre, uh, pre-trib to be true and it's just, no, no. But the big one was the continuation of the charismatic gifts, which kind of leads into my question. So I used to kind of be on the side where it, nope, they had ceased, but I just couldn't get around a few things such as scripture that say the church won't be without it until the return of the perfect. Now this is where I've kind of bumped into heads with some people where the perfect, at least from what I can read is talking about the return of view. They're talking about it being the completion of the canon and there's, there's, in my mind, there's too many inconsistencies.

And could you help me with that? Because I mean, I've even had people tell me that I'm really almost not a true Christian if I believe in that. Well, um, they have no right to say that to you that you're not a true Christian if you believe in the continuation of the charismatic gifts. Now, just so you know, I believe in the continuation of every single charismatic gift I do and I base it on scripture and I'd like to have any of them to call me up and tell me I'm not a Christian because of it because I'll ask them to go to scripture and show me where scripture is that criteria, which you have elevated to an essential doctrine. Show me in scripture where it says that and what they'll generally want to do, I'll speak until the break.

I'll get after the break. I'll answer the question, but what they generally want to do is say, that means you believe in revelation continuing for today. That violates the sufficiency of the scriptures. So how could you believe?

And they don't even understand it. That's the big one right there. Yep. Yeah.

And I'll answer that when we get back to the break and put that to rest because it's just, okay. Thank you. Lame. Okay.

It's lame. I'm sorry. Let me just be right back. Folks after these messages, please stay tuned. Welcome back to the show. Let's get back to Mike from Utah. Are you there, Mike? Yes, I am.

All right. So one of the issues that they will say is that the continued revelation violates the closing of the Canon, right? Well, exactly. And they, they basically say, well, if somebody gets revelation, it should be part of scripture because, so, I mean, it's just, it's just frustrating because how much here's what you say was spoken to people that wasn't then spoken in the scripture. Here's what you say is, can you show me that in scripture? Can you show me in the Bible where it says, if anyone gets a revelation from God, that it must be in scripture, they must be in scripture. Can you show me that?

It's not there. So they're making it up. It's not in scripture because if they're not using the very scriptures that they want to uphold as the standard, then why are they uttering a standard that's not found in scripture? That's point one. Point two is you go to first Corinthians 14. And if each one has a tongue or interpretation of a tongue or prophecy, these are from the Lord, then let the church judge them, et cetera. These were happening in the church at that time. They were never meant to be in scripture rated. There's the proof from scripture, the proof from scripture, right there that there are 14, 14, 14.

Okay. They're speaking in tongues. You just read through it. You'll see they're doing this.

The church comes together. They do this, blah, blah, blah, blah. You just pick the verses.

You'll find there's lots of them there. And you say, if it's true that whatever comes from God in a tongue and a prophecy, things like that has to be in scripture, why didn't they do it there in first Corinthians 14? Because your position is wrong. Okay. That's another thing. Now, what you can also do is, and I'll get to that stuff in a minute, but what you can do is go to, I would recommend this, get your favorite Bible and get online and print up first Corinthians 12 and first Corinthians 13 and first Corinthians 14. So print up first Corinthians 12, 13, 14.

Just print them up then with a pen or pencil. Keep in mind the charismatic gifts are not for today. Keep that in mind and then cross out the scriptures, cross out those scriptures that would no longer be in effect if that were true. Okay. So in first Corinthians 12, 28 and in the church, God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, and then third teachers, then workers of miracles.

Well, that's not for today, is it? Also, those who have gifts of healings, cross that out. Those speaking in different kinds of tongues, get rid of that. Do I have gifts of healing? Do I speak in tongues? Do I interpret? Cross it out.

It doesn't apply today. If I speak in the tongues of men and angels in first Corinthians 13, one, cross that out. If I have the gifts of prophecy, cross that out.

And when you get to first Corinthians 14, oh boy. Okay. And eagerly desire spiritual gifts, cross it out. Cause it's not for today, especially the gift of prophecy.

Nope. That's not for today. And the gift of prophecy for me is, you know, it's also okay. If the perfect is the canon, we'll get to that of the returning of, okay.

We'll get to that. Okay. So first Corinthians 14, you go through and it'll say for anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men that it's not for today who speaks present tense, not for today. Cross it out. Everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. Nope, no prophesying. Get rid of it.

He speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he prophesies edifies the church. Cross it out. You do this. You'll find there's a lot more in first Corinthians 14, a lot more to cross out. Now you can ask them a question.

This is what I do with a cessationist. I say, do you know of any present day teaching that invalidates large sections of scripture? And they'll say, well, you know, Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses. No, no, no.

Within the Christian context, do you know of any teaching today that invalidates scripture and any parts of scripture? And they'll say, no, no. So I do cessationism. Oh, I like that. All right.

Now I'm going to show you something. When you go to, to, uh, uh, to first Corinthians 13, it says, love never fails, but it's our gifts of prophecy. They'll be done away. If your tongues will cease knowledge, they'll be done away for we know in part we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial be done away. So the topic here is when the perfect comes, the partial be done away. So when I was a child, I spoke as a child and thought as a child reasons as a child became a man.

I got away with, did away with childish things. Now verse 12, for now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now the then refers back to verse 10 when the perfect comes, when the perfect comes, then we'll see face to face. Now what does the term face to face mean? It means seeing somebody face to face. It's personal encounter.

Yup. And I have, you know, Genesis 32 20 I mean 30 that is, is because I saw God face to face. Exodus 33 11 Moses spoke to God face to face numbers 12 eight with him. I speak face to face, clearly not riddles through every five, four the Lord spoke to you face to face or the fire. It's not, it's not, you know, it's face to face. It's personal encounter. Okay. I'll just leave it there for now.

Uh, and they always come up and bring up the mirror being hold on, hold on, hold on. Okay. Okay. So you know, but see when this, you do, when we, when it comes, when the perfect is coming, that's when we see face to face and you ask him, if the Bible uses the term face to face to being personal encounter, let me ask you the question. When G, when, uh, the Bible's completed, is that when we see Jesus face to face? Oh, when he returned. It's not good.

Yeah. It's when he returns, it just doesn't work. Then when they go to mirror dimly, what does that mean? What we see in a mirror dimly.

See, and you know, it just doesn't work from their perspective for now. I now I know in part, but then I will know just as I have been fully known. That's a very interesting phrase. We don't know God or are known by God fully when the Bible's completed. We are known by God fully when Jesus returns because he only knows, those believers, John 10 and 27, my sheep, listen to my voice.

I know them and they follow me. And there's other verses like this. You know, Matthew 7 23, you know, you said to the judge, but I never knew you.

Get away from me, you workers of evil. So there's that. Now you've also got to go to first Corinthians one seven because first Corinthians one seven, this is what I'll do with the cessationists because what it actually says is that you, the church is not to lack any charisma, any gift, charisma charismatic while you're waiting for the return of Christ or for the apocalypsis. So I'll say what I'll do is I'll say, you know, I, my opinion, we're not to lack any of those charismatic gifts while we're waiting for Jesus to come back. I just quoted it, right?

Not exactly word for word, but that's, that's what it says. And they'll say, no, I disagree. They're sunk because you quoted the word of God and they disagree with what the word of God says. I just quoted you, you know, this, I just referenced first, good news one seven. Could you please explain what it means to not lack any charisma while we're waiting for the return of Jesus?

Any charisma. Okay. I've had, I've had the response to that. It's like, well, does that mean that we have to have every gift in our church? I'm like, no, that just means the church in general. It's not that's my response to them about that. That's correct. It's the church at large. It doesn't mean or ask them, does it mean then that every individual has every gift?

They'll say, well, no. Well then this dispersed among different individuals in different churches, right? Yes. There you go. Right.

Yep. Okay. So, and you know, and then me, not that I want it to focus on me, it's not about me, but I actually prophesied over a girl once in detail and it came to pass and I mean in detail and it did come to pass and she admitted it. And I'll ask people, I'll tell them what happened in the whole bit.

And I'll say, you're a cessationist. Did what happened to me happen or not? I've actually had people say, I don't care what you say, Matt. It never happened.

You never did it. Wow. Oh yeah. I've had it happen. Uh huh. Yeah.

Or they'll say, well, I can't, uh, I can't execute your experience. So let's go on to something else. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait.

No, no, no, no. I say, look, I'm honest. I'm a man of integrity.

I'm an ordained, uh, individual. You know, I've been doing this for a long time. I'm telling you this is the truth. This is what happened. I tell them the whole thing. I said, could you please explain that to me? It can't. This is not a hearsay story.

It's what happened. And I'll tell you, the cessationists, in my opinion was some of them are just too uppity about the position and don't think critically. That's not to say if you disagree with being critically is the part that, yeah.

Yeah. But there are some who do, do think very critically and I, and I'm not including them in that group. Okay. So I'm not saying if you don't believe like I do, you're not thinking critically.

I'm not saying that some do, but the kind we're talking about who just don't care. That's what I'm talking about. Okay. So when the, so when they bring up the, uh, you know, prophecy as you know, feast and you know, basically there is no such thing anymore.

Um, because of the canon has been closed. I bring up, you know, let me ask if this is a good way to look at this, but I bring up, prophecy will cease once Jesus returns because there will no longer be any more need for prophecy. Very good. That's right.

Is that a, is that a good, is that my thinking correctly down that line? Yeah. Because when Jesus returns and new heavens and new earth are made, everything happens. It's all done. Yeah. And there's no more reason for it.

So the things, the things they say will feast is because there is no longer any reason for them to continue at that point. That's right. Okay. There you go. All right, buddy. You got it.

I want to make sure I wasn't quite thinking crazy, so actually you're thinking very good. Yeah. Good stuff. Good stuff. Call me up if you need backup.

I need help. Okay. Excellent. Thank you. All right. Talk to you later. All right, let's get to, if you still there, Emery from Charlotte, North Carolina, Emery. Welcome.

You're on the air. Yup. Good. All right. I'm sorry.

What you're, you're very muffled, but I think you're asking would people like Joel Osteen go to heaven? Is that what you're asking? I can't, I can't understand you. It was my, I can't understand you. I'm sorry. It's, it's that bad.

Um, do you want to try it one more time? Are you, are you asking that people like Joel Osteen, are they going to heaven? Yeah. Okay. I don't know if he is or is not. I certainly won't assert that he is. I can't judge his salvation, but for what he's taught, I'm not sure. Is that I can't judge his salvation, but for what he's taught and some other stuff, I doubt, uh, you know, a lot of things about him, you know, but, uh, I don't know if he's going to heaven or not. Okay. I know he teaches a lot of false stuff. All right.

He does. All right. Okay, buddy. Well, God bless. Okay.

Um, well folks, you got less than a minute, so let me just have enough time to get under a call. I'm going to be out of the studio tomorrow and Friday, unless something changes in the next 24 hours. But I'm traveling down to, uh, I'll be driving down to, to, uh, Sandy, Utah. I'll be staying there and from there be going down, I think to, uh, American forks, Spanish forks, something on Saturday, Sunday to do some evangelism and work and stuff like that.

What the Hindu conference or the Hindu meeting, the Mormons are going to be there. Luke Wayne's going to be there. Luke Wayne will be on the show tomorrow and Friday.

Let's detect problem, but he'll be filling in for me and I'll be down there in Utah. So by God's grace, you know, everything will be fine and, uh, he'll be doing a great job. So if you have questions, save them for Luke. He knows his stuff. He knows a lot about the King James and things like that and other things. And, uh, I just hope that the Lord blesses you greatly and by his grace of back on the air, sometimes next week, we'll talk to you then. God bless everybody. Bye. The program powered by the truth network.