Matt Slick Live (Guest Host Luke Wayne)

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. And welcome to Matt Slick Live! I am Luke Wayne. I will be your guest host for today.

Matt Slick is out for this week, and so I will be filling in for him. I'm a colleague of his at the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry. You can find us at CARM.org, that's C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. And if you're new to the show, this is a show about Christian apologetics, the area of Christian theology devoted to the defense of the Christian faith. And so we talk about complicated passages in the Bible, we talk about objections from other religions or from atheism, and we try to help Christians better understand their own faith while also speaking to outsiders to share the Gospel and remove stumbling blocks and answer those hard questions. And so, look forward to answering your calls today.

The phone lines are open, and you can call in at 877-207-2276. He allows certain things to happen for certain reasons, and as Christians we need to trust him, and as I have a saying, trust him beyond our ability to understand. And you know, that reminds me, there's a scripture that is probably worth focusing on right now a little bit, considering everything that's going on. It says this in Philippians 4, 6, 7, and 8.

These are great verses. Okay, apologize for a little technical difficulty there, cut out for a second, but as I was saying, this Thursday we have a special show coming up. I'm going to be interviewing a colleague and friend of mine. He was a leader in a ministry here in Utah where I serve as a missionary, and a ministry called Utah's Voice for the Voiceless. And his name is Chris Martinson, he and I go to church together, we are legitimate friends. A lot of times guys in ministry who are going to interview each other will just throw around, oh, he's a friend of mine, but Chris really is my friend. He and I have served together, I've known him since before he got his ministry started officially, when he was just a guy standing on the sidewalk outside of abortion facilities, sharing the Gospel with people, trying to change minds and save lives and provide legitimate help to people. He still does all that, but now he's part of a team that's doing so much more out here in Utah, and doing everything from investing in the lives of hurting people, showing them a better way, giving them a chance to choose life, and helping to get them out of the situations that have made them feel the need to run to somewhere like an abortion facility, and to call people to repentance, to share the Gospel, to keep Christ at the center of this ministry, and then also to advocate to legislators. Someone called yesterday asking, can Christians be involved in politics in a way that is Gospel-centered and a good stewardship of our time and our resources for our lives?

Chris is a guy who does that, meets with city council members and state legislators, and has these hard conversations to try to promote just laws on this subject, while also doing person-to-person practical ministry. So I'm going to be bringing him in, talking to him for a little bit about the ministry, and then opening up to your calls. I encourage you, Thursday, this Thursday, mark your calendars to be a part of that show.

So I really hope a lot of you guys will be able to join for that. And we do have a line open right now, so if you guys could, if you're interested in calling today to ask any of your Bible or apologetics or religious questions, you can call me at 877-207-2276. But before we go to the phones, I want to go ahead and take a couple online questions that were submitted.

You guys who ask us stuff online, sometimes it's hard to get to your questions, but we do try and see them, and I've grabbed a couple of those. And so first I want to answer a question by Eric on Facebook, who asked me if I could tell a little bit about myself, how I got into apologetics ministry. Yesterday on the show, I mentioned that I've been working for CARM, working with CARM for six years now, and during one of the calls also mentioned a little bit about my family situation. That my wife, three of my children, were born blind, and so we come from a very unique perspective that has opened up a lot of doors for us to speak into lives.

Ashley and I, my wife, we managed, she has a master's degree in social work, and we were involved in a Christian homeless ministry back in Kansas City for many years. But for my entire believing life, apologetics has been a part of what I've done even before I knew what the word apologetics was. As a brand new believer, when a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door for the first time, it sparked something in me. I realized the need out there for people trapped in false gospels to hear true biblical truth. And so I met with them as often as possible, and that branched out into me going and meeting with people from a wide variety of religions, talking with them, studying the Scriptures so I'd have something meaningful to say, and digging into those things.

And that brought me to using CARM. I discovered CARM.org, the website of this ministry that I'm now, decades later, blessed to be a part of. But back then I was a CARM user, studying everything that Matt Flick and others had written to help me be prepared to share the gospel with everyone I could meet from any background. And so over the years I attended seminary, been involved in church planting, I moved out to Utah as a missionary out here, and finally met Matt, and by God's grace I've now come to be a part of CARM, been a writer and researcher for CARM for the last six years. And so that's my road to being a part of this ministry in a nutshell. And so, Eric, I hope that answers your question. If you have any further questions, feel free to call in or write to us. Well, that said, with no further delay, let's get to the phones. Alberto from Georgia. Alberto, you are on the air.

Well, good evening, sir. Yeah, I got a question. You know, the gospel is talking about what I think what Jesus told us, what he saw him, I think it was on a fig tree or a tree, and why he should be amazed about it, you know, since Jesus Christ, he can see all things at all times. But I can do the same thing too, like, for example, if I saw you under an oak tree and you didn't know I saw you, and then later on I'd say, I saw you, you know, so-and-so under an oak tree, what would make that so special from Jesus telling him that he'd be amazed of that?

If I could do the same thing too, I could see you somewhere sitting somewhere, you didn't see me, I saw you, but I can still say I saw you in so-and-so place, so what's the big deal about that, what Jesus told him, why he was so amazed that you saw him there? Okay, yeah, that is from, in John chapter 1, I believe, the story of Nathanael, when Philip brings Nathanael to Jesus, and Nathanael first has this attitude of, can anything good come from Nazareth? How can this Jesus from Nazareth be the Messiah?

How can he be the Promised One? And so Philip says, come and see. And the first thing that Jesus says, because he addresses Philip as, behold, an Israelite indeed in whom there is no deceit.

And Nathanael's like, wait, do you know me? He's never met this Jesus before, and Jesus is already speaking to his character and saying something about him, and so Nathanael is confused immediately, and Jesus says, before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you. Now, we don't know everything about what that might mean to Philip. But clearly, Jesus saw Philip at a time when no one could have seen him. Jesus knew where Philip was, whether that's where Nathaniel was standing when Philip first came up to him, or this was some past experience Nathaniel had under the tree that nobody could have known about. In some way, Jesus knowing exactly where Nathaniel had been at that point meant something to Nathaniel. Even if it was as simple as that's where he was standing when Philip walked up, Philip knew Jesus wasn't there. Jesus couldn't have known that. It's similar later in John to when the Samaritan woman comes up to Jesus, and he knows nothing about her past with her husband and the man she's with, and she realizes, you must be a prophet. No one else could know that.

I've never met you before, and you know that. So while this seems like a small thing to us, clearly Nathaniel realized that Jesus saw and knew Nathaniel at a moment when Jesus was not there and could not have known, and then he realized, okay, you really are. You are who Philip said you are, and then Jesus says you'll see even greater things than these.

You'll see the heavens open and angels ascending and descending on the Son of Man. So the situation that's going on is Jesus having supernatural knowledge that no man could have of this moment where Nathaniel was under the fig tree, where Jesus couldn't have known that. And again, we see that theme multiple times in John's Gospel, where Jesus has that kind of supernatural knowledge, and through that people realize, oh, this isn't just a man. There's something more going on here.

Does that make sense? Well, everything you're saying, but what about that Jesus was, you know, knowing that there were these long garments and they covered their head up with stuff, you know what I mean? There's no garment over their head. So since Nathaniel never knew who was the Messiah in the first place, he could have been standing next to Jesus a whole hard time in the past and not know that was Jesus, and Jesus would have spotted him still then in this sort of place, or, you know what I mean? Like, he could have been dressed, if he never knew, if Philip wasn't around at all, just Jesus standing around the area with a garment over his head, you know, and he doesn't know who Jesus was anyway in the first place, how it looked like, he could be standing right next to Nathaniel and still not knowing that that was Jesus. With all due respect, Alberto, what you're doing right now, you're adding details to the account in Scripture that aren't there. Now you're saying Nathaniel was wearing something that was blocking his view, and Jesus could have been sneaking up the text, doesn't say that?

That's not what's described there. And so, Jesus knowing about the moment when Nathaniel was under the fig tree is something that the Nathaniel obviously knew no man could have known about. And so, that's how, that's why Nathaniel would have heard Jesus say that and realized, okay, this is supernatural knowledge here.

Yeah, honestly, I agree with what the Bible says, I know that, but what about if Jesus was covered up, you know, man, I said Nathaniel was covered up, Jesus was being covered up and standing in a certain place, and Nathaniel didn't know that was Jesus in the past, and then Jesus saw him in the past, in that spot, and then later on, Jesus then appeared to Nathaniel in the future, because Philip presented him to him, and he just said, hey, I saw you in a so-and-so place, because Nathaniel didn't know Jesus was over in that area too before, or he didn't know Jesus was over in that area. We're coming up to a break, Alberto, so just hold on for a minute, we'll get back to that after this break. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to Matt Slick Live. Again, for those just joining us, I am not Matt Slick, I am filling in for Matt this week, he will be back on starting next Monday. I work with Matt here at KARM, but I am here to answer your questions in the meantime while Matt is out, and I'm excited to be here doing so. So I was talking with Alberto before the break, Alberto from Georgia, about the account in John chapter 1 of Nathaniel being brought to Jesus at first skeptical, not believing that Jesus could be the Messiah because he's from Nazareth, but because Jesus knew about something in the past where Nathaniel had been under a fig tree.

That was enough to convince Nathaniel that Jesus had supernatural knowledge and therefore must be who he claimed to be. And so Alberto was pushing back on that, so let's get back to Alberto. Alberto, are you still with us?

Yes sir, I'm still here. For an example, one time I drove to a friend of mine's house, a lady's friend, she didn't know I was in her car, she didn't know, and I saw her smoking and she wore short pants. They let her in, I called her, she answered the phone, and she said, hey how you doing, oh yeah, and I said, hey, you dropped that cigarette, drop your hand, and she said, what, what, what, what, where you at, where you at, how do you know where I was smoking? She didn't know that I passed by in front of her in my car, and then I told her about the subscriber, what she was wearing, and she probably thought I had some kind of supernatural ability to know what she was wearing, what she was smoking and the cigarette in her hand, she didn't know that I was by in front of her.

So I could say, you know, she thought I had some kind of supernatural power that I could see her without even being there. Get my point? I see what you're saying, but again, you're assuming that whatever happened under the fig tree was something where someone else could have been around to see, and that maybe it could have been Jesus without him recognizing or something like that, but what if this is something where Nathaniel was utterly alone, out in a wide open space where no one else could have been there, no one for miles around, out in a deserted open place. You can't drag assumptions into the text to undermine it when that's simply not in the account. Something about this experience under the fig tree clearly was convincing to Philip, and the Gospel of John doesn't say that we should be convinced simply because of what Jesus said about Nathaniel and the fig tree, and it doesn't tell us that whole backstory with that. It leaves that alone. But it does tell us that that was what convinced Nathaniel, that Jesus knew that. Just like later, what Jesus knew, again, as I mentioned before, about the Samaritan woman and her previous marriages and the man she was with, that was enough. She recognized, okay, this Jewish man who has not been around Samaria doesn't talk to us.

All of a sudden, he knows all this stuff about me. That was enough to convince her. Now, the Gospel of John gives us plenty of far more compelling reasons that should convince us, and so does the rest of the New Testament. But those are what convinced those people that in their lives, they knew that this Jesus couldn't have known those things, and that that was a display of supernatural knowledge. And that is what convinced them, and the Bible accurately reports that that's what convinced those individuals that Jesus was who he said he was. And so, we can try to imagine scenarios where Jesus could have known those things other ways, but in doing so, we're creating something that isn't part of what actually historically happened.

We're creating our own imaginary scenarios to try to discredit the text, instead of just taking what it reports and realizing that I can't travel back in time and put myself in that position, nor do I have to. But I can recognize that is why Nathaniel believed. That is why the woman at the well believed, and that Jesus had a pattern, if it was a one-time thing, that's one thing, but Jesus had a pattern throughout his whole life and ministry of knowing things, exposing the hearts of people, knowing about their past, knowing what people's thoughts and motivations were, combined with all of the other evidences in his life, in the fulfillment of prophecy, the miracles he performed, his resurrection, that all come together and confirm powerfully who he is. And this is one piece of that, that we see these people throughout his life that recognized he knew things about them, that no man could know. And so this text is just one part of that pattern throughout Jesus' life where we see that. Does that help answer your question? Yeah, yes.

Planning, planning, planning. Yeah, I'm not done with the Scripture, but don't believe in God. I'm not done with the Scripture, I believe in the Scripture totally.

I believe Jesus is God, he is fully God, eternal God, you know, he's omniscient, omnipresent, and all that, I believe in all that. But sometimes, you know, sometimes I just... I'm not even going to say I'm putting on a scenario that's not... I don't understand it, not in the Scripture, but you know, sometimes people might say, well, you know, how do we know if we believe he was, you know, in the scenario, there's no way of knowing that we were in there that time. I understand. Yeah. All right, thank you.

All right, but what we can know is that it was enough to convince Nathaniel on that moment, and that's one piece of all that we can see that shows us who Jesus is. All right, thank you, thank you, Alberto, for your call, and look forward to talking to you again in the future. Okay, thank you. All right. Okay, next up is Ryan from Utah. Ryan, you are on the air.

Hey, Luke, how you doing? First of all, just wanted to say thank you for the good work you guys all do in spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ. I was listening, I had never even thought about trying to talk to people outside of an abortion clinic. That's an amazing no-brainer, but people definitely need help in those situations.

But just generally, thank you. So my comment today was, I'd listened to Matt quite a number of times, kind of talking debate about baptism not being a requirement, and of course, I personally feel completely opposite. I think that it's an absolute requirement, and also that baptism by immersion is important and a requirement as well. But I wanted to make the comment that I think that maybe some people are thinking about this in the wrong way, but baptism isn't what does the saving, however it's a requirement. And what I mean by that is, baptism is just the gate to the path to walk in Jesus' footsteps if you can, and to try to follow his footsteps.

Similarly, so there's a... So where does Scripture say that? Oh, just when Jesus is talking to Nicodemus, when he says, "...except a man is born of the water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven." And then I take... And so you assume that even though neither Nicodemus nor Jesus said anything about baptism, that born of water in that context means baptism. But the text itself never says that. In fact—sorry, go ahead. Oh, no, no, I was just going to say, and I guess I never thought about that specifically, because it personally just seems so obvious to me, and that's part of why I love the show, is that you guys forced me to take deeper about things. We're coming up on another break, so Ryan, if you'll hold for me, I'd love to come back on and continue this talk with you.

Absolutely. All right, guys, we'll be back in just a few minutes to talk more about baptism and why it's physically not a requirement for salvation. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back. Again, I am Luke Wayne, filling in for Matt Slick this week, who's taking some well-deserved, well-earned time off, and will be back with us again on Monday. And so I was just talking with Ryan from Utah about baptism and whether or not it is necessary for salvation.

And specifically, we were looking at John chapter 3, where Ryan raised the issue of Jesus' statement, unless one is born of water and of spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. So let's bring Ryan back on, and let's continue this conversation. Yeah, hey. Hey, how's it going? Ryan, you still here? Okay.

Still here. So let's take a look at John chapter 3, because I think this is important, very important to this conversation. And so, John chapter 3, Nicodemus comes to Jesus by night, and Jesus says to him, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus says to him, how can a man be born when he is old, and he enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born? Jesus corrects his over-literal, over-physical interpretation of his own words, which happens a lot in the Gospel of John, and says, no, unless one is born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of flesh is flesh. That which is born of spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, you must be born again.

The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the spirit. So all of this is talking about a spiritual birth versus a physical birth. And Nicodemus says back to him, so let's continue, let's let Jesus' own words and Nicodemus' questions drive how we understand this passage instead of bringing our own traditions into it. So Nicodemus says to him, how can these things be? And Jesus answered and said to him, are you a teacher of Israel and do not know these things? So Jesus' question implies a teacher of Israel should already know what Jesus is talking about here. Should already know about this requirement of this spiritual birth to enter the kingdom of God. Whatever this born of water and born of spirit is, it's something that Nicodemus, as a teacher of Israel, should have already known. Now baptism is a New Testament ritual, which is not something that a teacher of Israel would have already known. But if we look at the Old Testament, we do see language.

Sure, go ahead. So I still believe, I believe that it was so obvious that baptism should be a requirement that he, yes, should have known that. But he should have known when Nicodemus said, should a man be, go back to his mother's room?

He was totally missing the point. And I think it's maybe not in this exact scripture is it clarified that he's speaking about baptism to those who may not understand that. I guess maybe just further what I'm trying to put forth here is, what then is the purpose of baptism? Like I was thinking about Acts chapter 2, when they're... That's a great question, and Acts chapter 2 is also very important, but hold on, hold on.

Ryan, Ryan, Ryan, we need to take our time with this and not run around to a bunch of different questions and topics. Let's finish up with John 3. I promise you, this is super important, and then Acts 2 is a great next place to go. But I want to show you, because to you, because you have been taught a cultural lens through which you view this passage, to you, oh, it's just obvious he has to be talking about baptism. To a first century Jew, to whom baptism may or may not have even been introduced or heard of yet, but who certainly would not have been thinking in every reference to water is a reference to baptism.

That isn't what would have jumped to mind. But what should have jumped to mind when you're talking about being born of the Spirit to enter the kingdom of God would have been the words of the prophets in the Old Testament, which a teacher of Israel should have known. And if we look in places like Ezekiel 36, beginning at verse 24, talking about the new covenant, talking about this promised time, Ezekiel, who prophesized the raising of the dry bones, the time of the future resurrection of God's people, the new and better covenant that's going to be given, in that very context, this kingdom of God language, he says, For I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the lands, and I will bring you in. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you of your filthiness and from your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you. I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

I will put my spirit within you. There is born of spirit, born of water, but the water here is figurative water. It's something God does to us. It's something that God does to us, cleansing us. It is not literal water.

It is figurative water, a language that is meant to... Not yet. I need you to be patient with me, brother. I need you to let us see this through.

I have one more point I need to make. So if we look at what a teacher of Israel should have expected to know, we see instead of a brand new New Testament ritual, we see deep, rich, prophetic language about the requirement and the promise that to those entering the kingdom, God would give them a new heart and would cleanse them of their sin. That cleansing is not a literal ritual washing. That cleansing is figurative language here. Now, what does Jesus go on to say in the rest of this chapter about what is required?

This is where the rubber really meets the road. If we just let, in this very same passage, if Jesus answers the question, what is required for us to have this eternal life and enter into the kingdom, beginning back in John 3, same conversation with Nicodemus. Jesus continues and says, verse 14, "...as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes will in him have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life. God did not send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through him. He who believes in him is not judged. He who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." What does Jesus say is THE requirement? Not a Bible, not baptism.

What is THE requirement? The answer is, all who believe will have not just salvation, eternal life. And this is the context of entering into THE kingdom.

The kingdom Jesus will later describe as coming to the Father through him. This is the Gospel that Jesus preaches here and throughout John. And so Jesus is not saying in John chapter 3 that baptism is necessary. Indeed, he's saying that baptism is not necessary for salvation. That doesn't mean it's not important, it doesn't mean there's not a reason for it, but it is not a step that a ritual one has to fulfill in addition to faith to enter into the kingdom of God and have eternal life with our Heavenly Father forever.

Okay, so I actually do agree, in most of what you're saying. I think what's really happening is that the old way, the old law was rituals, and you do these rituals, and the law is going to help. I mean, obviously we know the law could never save them, that's why they need the Savior, but you have the old way of thinking, and then you have the Savior coming who wants to write that law on their hearts. And initially what I was saying was that, yes, it isn't the act of the baptism that does the saving by any means, because it is the person's spirit, the changed heart, that actually will lead them to everlasting life. But back to my main point, baptism is the gate, and if you don't open that gate, you can't step on the path. So similarly with works, works versus grace, obviously nothing that I can do, my works don't save me, it's the grace of Jesus Christ only that comes. But my works don't save me, my baptism doesn't save me, it's just the evidence and that gate, that stepping onto the pathway.

So that was my main point. I hate, I'm not trying to run here, but I'm actually out of time for my own self. I'll let you take it from here, and thank you so much once again, I love listening, you guys are awesome. All right, thank you Ryan, and I hope to talk to you again sometime. All right everybody, we'll be right back to move on to some more calls and to finish up this subject right after this break.

Welcome back to the show, I am Luke Wayne filling in for Matt Flick this week, and we were just on a call talking with Ryan from Utah. He had to go ahead and go before we left, but I want to finish up the topic we were talking about, because it's very important. We were talking about the subject of baptism and whether it's necessary for salvation.

And Ryan made an interesting statement before he got off the phone. He said that baptism is the gate through which we enter eternal life. Now that's interesting to me, because Jesus says that he is the gate. He says, I am the door, and the sheep enter through me. Elsewhere he says, I am the way, the truth and the life.

No one comes to the Father except through me. And so Ryan was placing an outward act or ritual or work in the place that Jesus himself puts on absolutely himself. He is the gate, he is the way, and we enter through Christ, not through a ritual. And we saw Jesus' words in John 3, where he emphasizes that we come by faith and faith alone. Elsewhere in John, John 5-24, Jesus says, Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life.

He does not come into judgment, but is passed from death to life. In John 6, 27-29, when people ask him, What must we do to work the works unto eternal life? And Jesus says, This is the work that you believe in him who sent me. Elsewhere in that same chapter, Jesus says, For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven and gives life to the world. They said, Lord, give us this bread always. He says, I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will not hunger.

He who believes in me will never thirst. The coming is believing, putting our faith in Christ. We could go on and on, the Gospel of John especially, but elsewhere in the Gospels as well, Jesus makes it abundantly clear. It is by faith in him and his finished work.

He hasn't done 99% of the works, and we have to do the 1% to finish it up. Jesus has done all, and we put our trust in him and him alone. Baptism is an outward expression of our repentance and our identification with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, that we are buried with him and raised in him, and we do that because Jesus told us to do it. Now people say, Oh, you admit Jesus told us to do it. That means it must be a requirement to salvation. Jesus told us any number of things we're supposed to do, not to give us a checklist for salvation.

We do these things not to save ourselves through the fulfillment of works and laws and rituals. We do them out of both love and gratitude, and because Jesus is Lord. He's Master. Even when my human boss at work tells me to do something, I do it, not so that I can suck up to him and get some special prize for it. I do it because he's the boss.

And so what he says, I do it. Jesus is Lord. He's Master. He's King. He's our God.

And what he says, we do, not so that we can get something from him, but because of who he is, and because of the love that he's bestowed on us and through his spirit, because he first loved us, the love we have for him. So, Ryan, I hope you get a chance to hear that, and I hope I get a chance to talk to you again sometime. All right, let's move on to our next caller.

Ron in Ohio. Thank you for your patience, Ron, and you are on the air. Hi, how you doing, Luke? I'm doing great. It's good to hear from you, Ron. What's your question?

Same here. Are you familiar with the two Gospels? The Gospel of the Kingdom, and then the Gospel of Jesus Christ, or Grace? I'm familiar with the terminology, Gospel of the Kingdom, but biblically, it's the Gospel of the Kingdom is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I'm not familiar with a hard distinction of those. Okay, my opinion or whatever, I've been trying to find the passages in the Bible, because that's the only way to go. The truth is the Word of God, and it's written down in the Bible, so I've been trying to find some things on it. So, the Gospel of the Kingdom is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. There's an angel that comes during the Tribulation and preaches the Gospel to all the nations, and it's the Gospel of the Kingdom. It's the earthly Gospel, it's not the heavenly one.

I don't know if you have any idea what I'm talking about. Well, the only places where the term Gospel of the Kingdom is used in Scripture are in the book of Matthew, when it talks about Jesus was preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom. And we know that the message that Jesus himself was preaching was calling people to believe in him as the Son of God, and that he was bringing the Kingdom of God, and that by his death and resurrection, the promises of God would be fulfilled, and that we are to put our trust in him completely, and that Gospel is the same Gospel the rest of the New Testament is preaching. And so the Gospel of the Kingdom is one of the terms, a term specifically that Matthew uses, in parallel passages in the other Gospels.

It's referenced under different terms, but it's different wording for the same thing. There is only one Gospel in Galatians against preaching another Gospel. There is but one Gospel, and that is the Gospel of the finished work of Jesus Christ, which is the good news that he has paid the price to save us from our sin.

Okay, it says, I don't know exactly where it's at, but it says, he's talking about the Gospel of the Kingdom has to be preached to all nations, then the end will come. That's right, and then how does Matthew's Gospel end? So Jesus has said, the Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached to all nations, and then Matthew 28, very end, we have, go therefore into all nations and preach the Gospel, and make disciples of Jesus, baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all I have commanded you, and lo, I am with you always to the very end of the age. So this proclamation of the Gospel is the same Gospel that the apostles went on to preach in the book of Acts, and it's the same Gospel that Christians believe today.

So that Gospel that must be preached throughout the world, that is the Gospel. And that's what the book of Matthew shows us. Okay, so before Jesus was crucified, isn't there, like, a Gospel that the Israelites or the Hebrews or whatever?

It's like a, it's more towards works than grace. It's like they were more into, like, doing works for their salvation than they were, you know, because Jesus hadn't come yet. So the grace hasn't appeared yet, because he hasn't been crucified yet. So before that, it was all about works for salvation, before Jesus came. Oh, no, no, we have the salvation. Eternal life has always been by the grace of God.

And those who were saved before Christ came and died, saved by looking forward in faith to what God was going to do, in the same way that we today look back in faith to what God did accomplish on the cross. But always, it has been by grace alone through faith alone. The law was never the means of salvation. One never attained eternal life through obedience to the law. Otherwise, there would have been no need for Christ to come if one could attain life through the law. Right, right, right.

That's very true. Okay. All right.

Sounds good. Thank you very much for your time. Okay, well, thank you for calling. Thank you so much for your patience. I know you were on hold there for a while, and I appreciate your patience. Thank you very much.

I listen anyway, so I was just listening while I was waiting. Well, praise God, thank you. You have a great evening. Praise God. Hey, you too. You too. God gets all the credit. It's not about me. It's all about God.

Have a good evening. Always to His glory. Amen, Ron. Amen. Always. Always to God's glory.

He's number one. And like Ryan was saying, we can't do anything here at all to gain salvation. It's all what Jesus did on the cross.

That's it. You can sit here and you can try and be the best person, thinking, you know, hey, I've been a good person, you know. I'm going to go to heaven. What people don't understand is that you have to go through Jesus to get to heaven.

You have to. Jesus has done all that is required. He lived the perfect life. He fulfilled all righteousness, and all we contribute to our salvation is the sin that made it necessary. We contribute nothing. Jesus has delivered us from that, if we put our trust fully in Him. Yes.

Yes, Ron, what's your question? Amen. Amen to that, brother.

Amen to that. Hey, what is an apologetic? Is that what a term that you use to describe your... What you're... Apologetics, it comes from the Greek word apologia, which means to give a defense, a reasoned response. It was often used as a courtroom defense, when something has been challenged or put on trial and you're offering a defense. And so apologetics is an area of Christian theology concerned with offering a defense of the Christian faith. And so as... Okay, so what you are is, you are a defender of the word of God.

I'd certainly endeavor to be. You defend the word of God. You are a defender of the word of God. That's what I get out of that.

Is that true? In a sense, the word of God itself is mighty and powerful and doesn't need a puny human like me to defend it. But what I defend is the faith, when people challenge or raise objections against the Christian faith, I, and others, attempt to offer a reasoned response, a defense like what 1 Peter 3.15 says, to thank Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.

And so that is the goal of Christian apologetics, is it first and foremost to sanctify Christ as Lord in our hearts, and then from that standpoint, to make a defense of the hope we have in the gospel, and to defend it from objections so that other people would hear and believe and put their trust in that too. Thank you so much for your call, Ron, and thank you all of you for listening. Look forward to talking with you again tomorrow. God bless you all. Have a great evening.