Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. If you're going to give me a call, now's the time.

877-207-2276, just give me a call, no problem. And we can talk. If you're new to the show and you're not sure what's going on, it is the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry. And uh... Man, I've got an echo in here. Sometimes it's really distracting me. It's weird.

Anyway, sounds like everything looks okay, though. So uh... we do questions here and answers and discussions on Christian theology. We do all kinds of stuff and uh... theology, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Unity, Baha'i, Islam.

We do UFOs, the occult, we've been doing COVID research now, governmental systems, and things like that. A lot of stuff going on. Anyway, if you want to give me a call, I want to hear from you. 877-207-2276. I hope you all had a great weekend. I did. Had a barbecue with some friends over and a good time and stuff like that.

And uh... you know, I just thank the uh... the Lord for uh... our country and uh... the ability to celebrate and uh... just just uh... just grateful, grateful to the Lord. Alright, so uh... we have three open lines. Give me a call.

877-207-2276. And why don't we just jump on the phones. We'll get to... let's see... Faa, I guess your name is, from Winston-Salem. Well, you're on the air.

F-A. Alright. That sounds good.

That works. So what's up, man? Well, I have a question for you. Can you speak up?

I can barely hear you. Okay. Is that any better? A little better. So, go ahead. I think that's the best I can do. Alright. Okay, so I uh... I really lean toward a millennial view of the church and the rapture.

And I'd like to know... I'm not quite there yet. I'm still a little bit on the church, not what I believe. But I'd like to know how it is you arrive at your position.

On which position? Rapture, or millennium, or what? You're a millennial, right? Yeah. Okay. So I'm trying to come to grip with that. Okay, sure.

How that works. Why do people believe that? Well, I... Okay, I'll tell you why I believe it. So, for example, if you go to Revelation 20, when it talks about the thousand years, a lot of people just assume that the thousand there is automatically a literal period of time. But not necessarily. Because it says that an angel came down from heaven, I think that's literal, holding a key of the abyss. I think that's figurative. There's no literal key.

And a great chain. That's figurative also. Leave hold of the dragon. That's figurative. The serpent of old. That's literal.

Who is a devil and Satan and bound him for a thousand years? Is it literal or figurative? Well, people just automatically assume the thousand there is literal.

Well, I just ask them, well, why? And they say, well, because it says thousand. So when it says that God owns the cattle on a thousand hills, does it mean he does not own it on a thousand and one?

And, you know, I just ask the questions. And so when I look at stuff like this, I'm not convinced that the one thousand is a literal reign. It might be, but, you know, out of that verse I'm not there. Now here's another thing I think is very powerful.

I'll read this to you and ask you a question and then I'll read something else. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Now that's the rapture, right?

Are you there? It would appear to describe the rapture from what I understand. Yeah, I agree with you, it's the rapture.

And Paul goes on, he says, therefore comfort one another with these words. Now as to the times and the epochs brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you, for yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. So that's the rapture, the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

Okay, no problem. And then what you do is you go to 2 Peter 3.10, but the day of the Lord will come like a thief in which the heavens will pass away, with the roaring in elements and will be destroyed with intense heat. Well that's the problem is because the day of the Lord will come like a thief, there's only one day of the Lord.

There's just one, the day of the Lord. So Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 4 that that's the rapture, or the rapture occurs on that, and Peter says that's when the new heavens and new earth are made. So where's the one thousand year reign in between those events?

It doesn't fit. Because in premillennialism, the rapture occurs a thousand years before the new heavens and new earth are made. But what I see in scripture, it occurs in the same day. Furthermore, Satan is supposed to be bound during the millennium. And so when you go to Matthew 12 22-32, Jesus is casting out demons.

And the Jews are saying, hey you're doing it by the power of the devil. And Jesus says in verse 25, if the kingdom divided against itself will fall, if Satan casts out Satan, how can his kingdom stand? If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do you do it? If I cast out demons, blah blah blah. And it says, verse 29, how can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property? That's casting out demons, that's what he's talking about. He says, unless he first binds the strong man, then he'll plunder his house. Well he's talking about Satan, that's what he's saying, Satan is bound. And I'm like, wow, you know.

And then, you know Matthew 24, when it says two men in the field, one is left, one is taken. Are you with me about that? You know about those, right? That's the rapture, right?

No. No, it's not good. It's not, it's about the wicked who are taken.

So that's good, I'm glad you said that. So, here's what's really interesting. We know, when you go back to 13, and we have the parable of the wheat and the tares, and they said, hey, should we tear up the tares? Because no, allow both to go together till the harvest, in the time of the harvest, I'll say to the reapers, first gather up the tares, and bind them in bundles. So at the time of the harvest, the first ones gathered are the wicked. That's Matthew 13, 30. And when they go on to, he explains the parable. And he says, well, verse 38 of Matthew 13, the field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom, the tares are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. And the harvest is at the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age, the son of man will send forth his angels, and they'll gather out of his kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness. So when Jesus comes back, the first ones taken are the wicked, not the good.

So if the rapture occurs, pre-millennial, well then the wicked have to be taken first, and they're judged. Yeah, I would say that. I guess the difficulty I'm having right now with our... I enjoy this program personally, thank you for that. But do you have any of this information about specifically what it is that you believe, why, on your website? Yeah, you know, and people who don't agree with me on that, I go, I don't care, that's fine. I know, but look at it. But I do, you can go look up, in fact, I'll offer you a polite challenge.

Polite, you know. There's an article I've written called, The Two Ages. Two Ages in Support of Amil. If you look it up, print it up and just work through it, go into the scriptures, I don't know if you can see what you have to say, because every single time I've ever done this in Bible studies, without exception, every time, over the years, pre-millennialists have not been able to answer the scriptures. And the pre-rapture people can't. That's not my part of the challenge. Yeah, it is.

Yeah, that's what I'm looking for. Right now, my understanding really has to be and that's fine. I'd like to be able to really dive into your argument for myself. It makes a comparison, you know, with the scriptures that I understood. I compare this to what it is that you said tonight.

You said a mile from. Yes, I did. That's the default. Yeah, that's great. Thank you for that, Matt, and I look forward to talking to you again in the future. Yeah, check out that article and map it out and go through and see.

There's a lot of information there. And every time someone has brought up a pre-tribulation rapture verse, I just look at the context and it doesn't support pre-trib rapture. So, that's my opinion. I hope I'm wrong, though.

Well, I hope you are, too. But, you know, we all want the truth, don't we? That's right. So, and just because I lead pre-millennial very strongly on my head, that does not mean at all that I would not, you know, let's face it, I want to be, I want to be, you know, difficult to sound when I believe, when I talk about it. Yeah. But, anyway. Well, thank you very much. Sure, man. Check it out. I'm interested to see what you just had to say, you know, if you check out that information I have. I will do that.

It's going to take me a couple of weeks. That's okay. That's all right, man. Sounds good, buddy. All right. F.A., consider yourselves good, buddy. God bless. You, too, man. God bless.

All right. We have a couple of open lines. 8772072276. Let's get to Janet from Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Janet. Welcome. You are on the air.

Thanks, Matt. I just have a question. I'm trying to do my own research on COVID-19. And I need some really good sources for information. And I just want to know if you could provide some.

Wow. Well, I have a list of at least 21 links I've gone to. And books. I can tell you about the books. I've gone to Bitchute. I've gone to, let's see, LozierInstitute.org, The High Wire, FDA.gov, a podcast from Apple, Google, of course, The American View, NaturalNews.com. I mean, I can go on. You know, The Who, I mean, not The Who, Who.com or dot gov, whatever it is, XYZnet, Australia, Newsmax, Stat News. Oh, gee. Oh, yeah, I've just gone. I just go all over the place and I just started releasing articles. Do you find that you use one more than other or some more than others?

No. Well, I try and lean towards CDC more and Who.com, you know, World Health Organization. And also, it's just some of them. There's WebMD I've gone to and HopkinsMedicine.org. Let's see, you know, I just go all over the place. And so I'm just looking at everything.

Gem.network, which is official medical review, NCBI.NLM.IH.gov, all kinds of stuff. And wherever my research takes me. Yeah. So you want to hold up to the break here or there's more? Yeah, I want to hold up for just a second. OK. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. You want to give me a call?

Please do. 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back. All right, let's get back with Janet from Raleigh. Are you still there? Yeah, I'm still on the line.

I stand on the line because I want to ask you specifically about something that you talk about quite often. And it's the cloth mask versus the N95 mask. And I was just wondering, do you know where you got that information from? Yeah, I have it.

In fact, let's see if I've released it yet. Cloth masks. Here's how it works. N99 removes the virus particles, which are something like 0.03 microns or something like that. N95 masks or excuse me, N99 masks remove 99 percent of the material that goes that could be breathed in and breathed out. And 95 removes 95 percent. Surgical masks, what I've seen, roughly do about 50 percent.

And cloth masks are 3 percent effective. And I've got the documentation that I just, as a matter of fact, today was looking at that. And we're having trouble.

I'm going to tell you this. We're having trouble with the Web site and our Web guy is on vacation. And under the CARM site on the left hand side is navigation. We have a secular issues. And I put a COVID category in there and it disappeared today.

And I don't know why. So I have the articles there. But if you go to the home page, you can see see what the articles are in the home page. And I've released dictionary terms and how effective are masks against COVID. And so if you click on that, you'll see where I've got the documentation and cloth masks.

Here it is. Laboratory tests show the penetration of particles through the cloth masks to be very high. 97 percent compared with medical masks, 44 percent and used in trial and in 3M, 930, 0, 995, you know, and stuff. And it's from NCBI dot NLM dot NIH dot gov. The documentation is there. And so what I've done is just done quotes. I don't want to do any conclusions.

I just do quotes as much as possible. And that's what I'm finding out. OK, so you said if I go to the website, I can get that information about the man. Yes.

If you go on the website and just look at the home page and you'll see how effective are masks against COVID. OK, in there, you'll have I'm sorry. Go ahead. Oh, you have the the source that you got it from, right?

Absolutely. OK. And that's what I'm interested in, understanding that I tell people those things. But then if I don't have a source, they're kind of like, oh, that's right.

And what I'm going to be doing is continue to release articles. In my opinion, a few things have changed just from the research. And so it has I don't trust the government. I'm kind of a conspirator. You know, I don't believe in all this stuff. But I'm like, hey, you know, the MRNA does not do what I thought it did. So that's good.

It just is. But so there are there are problems associated with masks. I have them listed along with the site, skin problems, sinusitis, headaches, fatigue, negative impact on immune resiliency, behavioral problems, weakened immune system, anxiety, depression. And there's a bit even been an increase among certain groups of people of suicide, thoughts and depression because of masks.

Well, there's just information. You know, does it mean all masks are bad? No. Do masks reduce the spread of COVID?

Absolutely. They do. N95 masks are very effective. But the problem is you can only use them basically only use them once or you have to wash them thoroughly.

And I haven't researched how to do that. But the surgical mask, most everyone wears, they basically don't do much. I mean, they do remove large droplets, but they don't remove enough of what you need in order for it to be effective. And the cloth masks are just ridiculous. And face shields are even just basically useless to wear.

Face shields are? Yes, because it's wide open. Because the sides are out? No, it's wide open. They're wide open. All you do is blocking the view like large coughing droplets. That's that's it.

And so you're breathing up and in and people are talking, it goes up all over, you know. And so basically the face shields are basically useless. And I have a table I've done where cloth masks, low effectiveness does not meet the N95 qualifications. Not much protection, should be cleaned daily, 3% efficiency and then face shield to just have low on the same level of cloth mask, but it's actually worse. There is so much information on where you can get the K95 masks. I mean, can you get those in stores?

N95, you can just go online. You know, N95 masks, they work and that's what you need. And right. But here's now there's another problem. There's what's called immunity debt. Let's go through the article today and I'm working on an analogy.

Let's see how it works. Let's just say hypothetically, this is stuff I got from reading articles. I didn't know about this. And these are journals that are talking about this.

I'm like, oh, my goodness, I didn't know about this. And this is what they're saying is that you have a deficiency that accumulates when you are not exposed to germs. So I traveled to listen to an analogy. If you have 100 germ units that you're going to encounter a year and you need those, not need them, but at 100 units a year, you have a certain level of reaction that your body goes through in order to become resistant to various things. So if you're social distancing, which isn't that effective and wearing cloth mask, which is basically not effective, but if you're really doing this stuff right, say N95s, then what happens is instead of being exposed in a year to 100 units, you're basically only exposed to, let's just say, 80 units.

Well, okay. And so that means you have not been exposed to several germs that have come around and your body's not reacted to them and built up immunity to them. And let's say this goes on for two or three, four years where you're wearing masks and doing this kind of thing. Well, then the accumulated immunity debt increases. And then if a new virus comes through because people's systems have been weakened or not strengthened, I should say not weakened, but not strengthened due to the exposure of other stuff, then they're more susceptible to being hit with something more severe. And it can cause another pandemic. And with that, the government will then come in because, you know, I have a shirt that said make 1984 fiction again, George Orwell. The government's oppression because it's there. And so then the government can come in and shut this down, shut more of that down, and require more compliance.

So this is... Well, we've been rockin' hard, Blake. Yes. So there has to be what's called herd immunity, but how do you do that safely? Well, you have to be exposed to stuff, but you want to be exposed to bad stuff, and so protect yourself. Yeah, you've got to do that.

So now there's a balance that you have to maintain in a culture, a society. I don't know how to, you know, I don't know what to say about that, but these are just the stuff I'm reading about. And there's so much more.

I've been doing this for hours, for days, for weeks now. Wow. I haven't even gotten into what the virus and the vaccines actually do, which I'll be doing pretty soon.

But I have discovered that they're using aborted fetal cells in a lot of their testing to develop them. So, you know, there's a lot of problems there. Wow. All right. Yeah, well, I appreciate the information.

I'm going to check out the CARM website and find out if I can get more information. Okay, Janet. God bless. Thanks, man.

Okay. All right, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back, everyone. Let's get on the phone with Jose from Texas. Hey, Jose.

Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matthew. How's it going, Matt? It's going, man.

It's going. What do you got, buddy? Yeah, hey, I have a question. It's concerning remarriage. So, can a Christian person remarry again after divorcing their spouse or no longer their spouse?

Yes. Some people allege that Romans 7-3 and 1 Corinthians, I believe, verse 7 and verse 39, if I'm not mistaken, where it says that a woman cannot remarry unless the husband dies or vice versa. So, can you clarify, is that legitimate or you guys misinterpretation? Well, there are two categories of divorce, of sin, excuse me, that permits divorce. One is adultery, the other is abandonment.

And Jesus said in Matthew 19, 9, I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, porneia, it's sexual immorality, and marries another woman, commits adultery. So there's that, and then there's 1 Corinthians 7-15, where Paul says, if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave. The brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace.

So this is in the persecution time, that's what the context was. An unbelieving spouse leaves, they abandon you, let them go. They're not under bondage at that point, they've abandoned you, they've broken the covenant boundaries. Now, when you apply this, there are problems, because the Bible doesn't say too much about this in the particulars of the areas that we want to address. So what if you have two unbelievers? Let's say they're atheists, and they get divorced because they didn't get along. When they get divorced, then one of them becomes a Christian later. Can that person remarry? Because it's not a biblical divorce. Well, I would say, yes, they can remarry, because everything is under the blood of Christ, and they didn't know what they were doing, and they get divorced.

There are a few people who disagree with me on that, but that's just my position. And what do you do if it's a Christian couple who got a divorce because they didn't like each other? Well, then, neither one is free to remarry. What if there was adultery involved, where, say, one spouse commits adultery, and both Christians are supposed to be Christians, one commits adultery. Well, the other one has the right of divorce, but not the obligation of divorce. And so if that person wants to reconcile the marriage, that's up to that person and that couple.

And if, say, the offending person continues in adultery, then the other one is free to, so decides to divorce, and then is free to remarry later on. So there's variables. Okay.

Stuff like that. Okay. The reason why I'm asking is that one of my aunts, she's asking that question, it's pretty hard to answer the question, because in her case, she was an unbeliever. When her husband, my uncle, he left her for another woman, in other words, he left her and committed adultery.

Yeah, he left. So in this case, she stayed single for almost, I want to say, five years, and now she's finding the right man, a Christian man, and kind of going in the right direction. But she's not worried that, you know, can I remarry, because now she knows more about the Bible, and she's more into, you know, Christianity. But her worry is about her salvation, if she were to get married, remarried, with, you know, again, if that's considered as an adultery.

No. So if I were her pastor, and she came to me, and she said, years ago, her husband committed adultery and left the marriage, and got a divorce. And I, you know, we talked, and that's what it was, and she wasn't messing around, she wasn't doing anything wrong, and she's willing to work on it, and he refused, and he left.

She's free! And if there was a guy that she wanted to marry, and he was a Christian, and I counseled them both, and I go, yeah, okay, I'd perform the ceremony. Okay? Okay. Okay.

All right? All right. Well, thank you, man. Thank you. Thank you, Casey. Sure.

No problem, buddy. All right. And God bless.

Pretty big. Okay. God bless. All right. Goodbye.

All right. Let's get up to Nathan from South Dakota. Hey, Nathan.

Welcome. You are on the air. Hey, Matt. Hey. Hey, Matt. How's it going? It's going, buddy.

So what do you got, man? So, I received, so, for the backstory here, one of my friends and I have a lot of contact with her, right, and I shoot her a text message to see, you know, how she's doing, right, just weirdly silent, and turns out she's joined the Mormon Church. How old is she?

She is 23, and this is someone who professed to be a Christian since I've known her. Okay. For like four years, three or four years. All right.

This is back in Idaho, by the way. Oh, okay. Cool. How long ago did she join the Mormon Church? It sounds like within the last month or so.

Has she been baptized yet? Yes. Okay. All right. Okay. So, go ahead.

Apparently, they kind of love bombed her into this whole thing, and this is someone who, she's my friend, I'm saying this with respect here, she is very gullible. Okay. So, you want to know what to do, right? Yeah. All right.

What you do is you try and maintain that friendship, and don't push too much, because she's young, she's probably emotionally vulnerable. You said she's gullible. Oh, yeah. And they've love bombed her then, but she's emotionally committed, not intellectually committed. So, you need to keep that door open, and prepare some information.

Just keep the door open. Don't jump on her with 8,000 anti-Mormon facts, okay? Because she'll probably just close off and emotionally be resistant to anything else. This is, unfortunately, what happens in cults. People follow emotions rather than the truth in their mind, they have testimonies, they have feelings. That's what Mormonism is, it's a religion based on feeling, not on fact and truth. That sounds like exactly what she said to me.

Yeah, that's what it is. So, what can also probably happen is that as she matures, she might start recognizing some of the problems in Mormonism, and she starts hearing things, like God came from another planet, and a goddess mother, and they have relations in heaven to make spirit babies, and Satan, and Jesus, or spirit brothers, and secret handshakes to become gods. I've talked to Mormons, I remember a couple, and I gave a ride to that flat tire, and I was talking to them, and they had been Mormons for two years, they came out of the Baptist church, and I told them, I said, well, are you aware of what Mormonism teaches about God?

And they go, of course we are. And I said, well, you know, that God came from another planet, and they looked at me, and they said, no he didn't, they don't teach that, and I said, yeah they do, and they were adamant that, no, we did our research, and they don't teach that, and I said, no, they do, there's a goddess wife, and they looked at me like I was an idiot. And I said, you need to go check, and I said, here are the questions to go specifically ask that bishop.

And, you know, I don't ever know what happened, but a lot of times people can join without knowing what they really teach, because Mormonism, what it does, is it uses Christian words, but doesn't use Christian definitions. It will say, we believe in the Trinity, we only believe in one God, but the Trinity is three separate gods, and one God means of all the ones that exist, only serve one of them. So when you say, how many gods are there, they'll go, there's only one, of this world, of this range, of this area. That's what they mean. So when you say, how many gods are there, you're thinking, any place, anywhere. That's why you've got to speak in terms of definitions. And if there's an opportunity for you to be able to have a conversation, you pray about this, and you see, and then you have documentation, like off of my website, you go to the cut and paste section on CARM.

Is CARM not a word for it? I've used your website a lot since I became a Christian, it's been like a fundamental thing for me. Good. Yeah.

Good, glad. And, you know, there's the information there. You can show her from their own writings, yeah, God came from another planet, and God is wife, and, you know, you don't want to talk about the temple ceremony right away, but when they find out what happened to the temple ceremony, a lot of Mormons are just aghast at what happens in there. Yeah, they're written about that too much, because I've got so many projects I want, but in there, they're given fig leaf aprons, and they're green fig leaf aprons, and there's a point when they're in the Mormon temple ceremony where there's a film going on, and Satan has a very dark fig leaf apron, and he's asked, well, what is that? Is it similar to my power in priesthood? And then the Mormons are told to put on their fig leaf aprons at that point. Wow, that is extremely creepy and satanic.

Yeah, particularly since the fig leaf, the fig leafs are what Adam and Eve covered themselves with, and God rejected them. Oh, there's all kinds of stuff. But there you go, buddy, okay? We've got a break, so we'll move it along, all right, man? Let me know what happens, okay, buddy? Thank you so much.

All right, Nathan, God bless. I will do so. Thank you.

Okay. If you'd like to check back after these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back, everyone. Okay, he's gone.

That's a long time to wait, too. Sorry about that. And if you want to give me a call, two open lines, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Anonymous.

That's an interesting name from New York. Welcome here on the air. Yes, hello, brother. How are you? Doing all right, man.

What do you got? Good. I've got a quick question for you.

So recently I was thinking about a brother who had left a reformed faith for Roman Catholicism, and one of the verses that he said he could not, I guess, understand, he probably said with Catholicism was 1 Peter 3.21. Yeah, that's easy to deal with. Yeah. Yeah. I don't really know how to combat it, you know, or kind of like show him. It's easy.

Yeah, it's easy. Well, just look at the context, and corresponding to that, baptism now saves you. The Greek word is antitoupon. It's an antitype, a representation of something. Corresponding to that.

So corresponding to what? What's the antecedent? A previous verse. Who once were disobedient when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah during the construction of the ark, in which a few that is eight persons were brought safely through the water. So eight people were brought safely through the water, right, to enter the ark. So corresponding to that, baptism now saves you. So you just ask them, so what does baptism correspond to in the previous verse? So it's a typical, and then Christ, I guess, is the atypical through the Holy Spirit.

Is that what you mean? Okay, it says, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is eight persons, were brought safely through the water. So what is baptism referring to? Christ? It's the ark.

And I guess, like, being in him? The ark. Yeah, that ultimately is what it is, but it's the ark. They were in the ark, and Christ says all who are in him. And it was eight persons, number about eight, we'll get into that now, and God shut the door and God opened the door of the ark. It was the ark that saved them. The water was the means of destruction of the ungodly people.

And so there needed to be something to save them. And corresponding to that, baptism saves you. That's why he says, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

And when I talk to people who use this verse, they'll say, well, corresponding to what? And they say, well, it's the water. But the water is a means of destruction. And they'll say, yeah, destruction of your sin. They'll say, you mean water washes away your sin? And I said, no, the blood of Christ does that.

Never is it water that washes. It's always the blood of Christ. You have your eyes off of Christ. Now you're putting it on baptism. This is why Peter says not the removal of dirt from the flesh. It's not the issue of the water on the body.

It's not that. It's an appeal. So he's relating baptism to an act of faith. Now they might come back and say, well, that's exactly what it is you're justified when you have faith.

I mean, when you get baptized, when your salvation is. And then I say, well, we go to Romans 5, 1, it says, having therefore been justified by faith. And I ask them, does the scripture teach that we're justified by faith? Because that's what Romans 5, 1 says, having therefore been justified by faith. So are we justified by faith? And they had to say yes. Then I go to Philippians 1, 29, where God grants that we have faith.

Well, that's what it says. He grants that we believe. So then I ask them, so God grants that we believe and we're justified by faith. So here's my question, are we justified by faith when we have faith? If they say yes, baptism is not necessary for salvation.

If they say no, they deny the scriptures. Wow. That makes a lot of sense. Wow.

All right. That's a fascinating thing. And also like with the number eight, does that have any significance also?

Yes. Every Greek letter is also a number. So we have A, B, C, 1, 2, 3. And the Greek word, so when you write a word like ikthous, which is fish, all the letters, they're also numbers, they add up. And that's 1,224. And Iesous, which is Jesus in Greek, is 888. And babies were circumcised on the eighth day, eight people in Noah's Ark. Jesus was raised on the first day of the week, which is seven plus one, which is eight.

Wow. So eight is considered the number of new beginning when you start seeing a pattern where eight appears. Then it's a hint of something new coming in scripture. Have any suggestions where I could read, I'm sorry to interrupt you, I just want to ask if you had any basic introductory Greek courses, but I was wondering if there's any reading I could do to further kind of like investigate this kind of stuff, because this is really just like open up like a new discovery, like what the fuck? Yeah, there's a lot of books that talk about this.

You can just look up biblical numerics, you can look at Pannin, I think his name is Pannin, and he does a great deal of work in this area, or he did, he's passed away. He's a brilliant mathematician, he found all kinds of patterns. I use them sometimes when I'm doing apologetics with atheists, I say, hey, let me share my screen, I'm in a chat room, and I'll show them. I say, look at this, how does this happen by chance? And I show them patterns, and they don't have any answers, because the complexity of the numbers are just immense in certain arrangements of things.

Now people think this is all too mystical, but I've been studying this stuff for years, and it's there, it's just there. It's like, for example, in John 21, well, they caught 153 fish. Well notice this, after the resurrection of Christ, they didn't know he'd resurrected, they went back to fishing, they couldn't catch anything. You go to John 21, and he says, cast your net on the right side.

Well, on the day of judgment, those on the right side of Christ are saved, those on the left are damned. And so he says, cast your net on the right side, and so they did, they caught 153 fish. Why 153?

Well, 153 times 8 is the value, mathematical value for the word fish, 1224, okay, it could be coincidental, not a big deal. But aside from the 4,000 and the 5,000 in the gospels, guess how many individuals received a blessing from Jesus? In the 4 separate gospels totaled up, 153, and in the Old Testament, when they were going through the, when they built a tabernacle and moved into the desert, there were 12 tribes of Israel, and they camped around the tabernacle in 4 groups of 3, and when you take the number of men in those 4 groups, and you put them out, straight out, you get across, literally, you get across, you look it up like thousands of feet in the air, you look down, you'll see the encampment, you'll see if they are at the tabernacles in the center, you take the men and you just make them on the graph paper, an inch wide, and you proportionally move it out from each direction, northeast, west, and south, you get across. So the banner for the 4 tribes, the 4 groups, there's 12 tribes, 3, 3, 3, and 3, well there's 4 groups and 4 flags, or 4 banners, lion, ox, eagle, and a man, and Ezekiel is a 4-faced creature, lion, ox, eagle, and a man. In Revelation, there's a 4-faced creature, lion, ox, eagle, and a man, and guess what the 4 gospels were known as, in code, lion, ox, eagle, and a man, 153 fish, 153 individuals in the 4 gospels, you know, when I teach this stuff, people are blown away, they have never heard this kind of stuff, in fact when I teach theology, most Christians have never heard the theology either, I don't know how much information to give to people because it overwhelms them, and after decades in churches, they still don't know anything, because I don't think the pastor is teaching very deeply. Go ahead. Well definitely take a look at this, because I think it's a state to say that there's a difference between biblical numerics and then you have the numerology, which is weird stuff.

Right, yeah that's crud stuff. So if you go to, type in karm.org in the search engine, and then I think if you go to, let's see, Bible inspired, I'm trying to find it, I think I put this information up, I'm just telling you, I think I did, no that's 2008, so that's not it, but I'm trying to, I thought I did, I thought I got so much stuff on there, where I actually put some of the stuff I said up there, I think, I have to find it and add stuff, but at any rate, there you go, there's a lot, there's a lot in the Bible, it's an incredible book, it's incredible, it really is. I looked up, I'm definitely going to purchase a copy of Ivan Pynneen's Numeric Greek New Testament, I'm seeing him for like 20 bucks online, so I'm definitely going to grab a copy of that. It's worth it, it's worth it, and you're going to see some stuff in there, I think it goes too far in some areas, but sometimes it's like, oh my goodness, that is, how is that even possible, unless God's the one involved, there's a lot of stuff like that. Okay?

Alright, will do, thanks for your help, thank you very much. Alright man, God bless. Alright let's get to John from North Carolina, whom we lost, and now let's try Nelson from Bakersfield.

Hey Nelson, welcome, you're on the air. Hey man, I know we've got a few minutes, God bless, just wanted to run this by you real quick, because I was talking to a Jehovah's Witness a couple days ago, and he referenced that they are, which I know is a lie, they're considered the great crowd, and so just by looking over it, I think just by reading it myself, I was just like, wait a minute, this guy contradicts what they believe, because I think they believe, correct me if I'm wrong, they believe they won't see Jesus, right, in the Paradise Earth, they say. There's two main classes, the Heaven class, the Earthly class, the Heavenly class, 144,000, they're going to go to Heaven, they're going to see Jesus. Now I don't know what their exact view is if Jesus comes down to Paradise Earth, and they can see him, so that I don't have an answer to, but they have the two classes, the main classes, or the others, but yeah, okay?

Okay so how would you, just by these verses, from verse 9 through 12, what would you recommend for me to share with you? Well here's the thing, that section of scripture, if they want to claim it for themselves, or a great multitude, which no one can count, said okay, so you guys think it's you, why do you think it's you? And they're going to give you another reason, then you deal with that other reason, because how do you prove this is not them in this pericope?

Four creatures fell on their faces before the throne, etc. So how do you prove it? Well it's difficult, because it's not real clear what's really going on, so I don't have to sit on a text of scripture that's not very clear, and argue about what it might be. So I use it, and say okay, so you're the great crowd, right, yes, okay, why do you say you are?

Well we're the ones who teach blah blah blah, well what do you teach, blah blah blah, oh really, let's look at that in scripture, and then you got them. Okay. Okay.

Okay, sounds good. Well thank you very much, Matt. You're welcome. You're welcome very much.

All right. Hey folks, we're out of time, and if you have questions, you want to comment, call tomorrow, right, because tomorrow, at the same time, we start at 6 o'clock Eastern time, we go for an hour. So if you want to check out information on the website, CARM.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, there's all kinds of articles there, written thousands and thousands of articles. The website will be 26 years old at the end of next month, and just hope that you would go check things out, continue to listen, pray for this ministry, and may the Lord bless you, all right, and I hope you have a great evening. So just remember, CARM.org, check it out, go research, go take a look, all right everybody, God bless, there's the music out of time, and we'll talk to you later, see you, God bless.