Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at CARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live. Francis taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. So, hey, look, I was out last week. I know that people want to know what happened, what was up. We had a family emergency. I won't give too many details, but it was definitely an emergency. And I had to fly out of state and take care of family.

And let's just say out of a hospital emergency situation. And I'm not going to give any details, but I kept for this. I bought a ticket like at two o'clock and was on a plane by four o'clock and was there and had to go to an emergency and meet family members and stuff like that. Oh, and everything worked out. OK, everybody's OK. Everybody worked, it all worked out. Everything's OK, just letting you know. But I had to be there for a few days.

So anyway, here's the praise report. I get on the plane and this is, I mean, I had to rush in. And I had to pack really fast, get the ticket, get in there, you know.

I had a friend drop me off at the airport. And I get in on the plane, I'm sitting toward the back of the plane there and this guy, but right this seat behind me, he's waving at me. And I said, I don't know, you know, I couldn't see it behind his mask.

He pulled his mask down. I recognized him. Oh, we used to work together at a certain place. And I said, oh, OK, cool, really cool. And I said, well, what are you doing on the plane here?

He says he's going to see his sick mom. I said, oh, I'm sorry. And I said, well, you know, we're going to the same city, you know. And I said, well, you know, where's she at?

Low and behold, she was at the very same hospital that I had to go to in all of L.A., the very same hospital. And I said, you have got to be kidding. I said, maybe we can share an Uber or something together. And he said, well, now I got my sister's picking me up.

I said, oh, OK, no problem. And a couple of minutes later, he calls me. He goes, hey, by the way, he's going to talk to my sister. She'll take us both to the hospital.

So how about that? You know, on this plane, I see a guy I haven't seen for a couple of years. And he's going to the same hospital that I have to go to.

And his sister's picking us up. And she did. And she was really neat and sweet. And I had a good time and got to the hospital very quickly.

How about that? See how the Lord provides? So praise God. And I just thank the Lord for all of that and everything worked out. And I do want to thank every one of you who was praying because some people knew basically what was going on. And I just wanted to say thanks for your prayers. I really appreciate it.

The body of Christ came through. All right. Hey, we have some open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. I'm not sure, but I think we have some new stations online now in Ohio.

So we'll see if we get some calls from them. And just in case that is the case right now, if you're curious to know what this show is about, Matt Slick is my real name. It's called Matt Slick. And it's on my driver's license, birth certificate and all that, Matt Slick. And I am a Christian apologist. I defend the Christian faith.

And my website, CARM.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, has had over 146 million visitors, written thousands of articles, several books, and I've been doing radio for 16 years, five days a week. So there you go. If you have questions on theology, the Bible, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, script and science, unity by Islam, Seventh-day Adventism, UFOs, the occult, you know, philosophy, various things like that, you can give me a call and we can blab. Sometimes I have answers, and sometimes I don't.

And we'll just see. All right. Open lines, give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Randy from Kentucky. Randy, welcome.

You are on the air. Yes, sir. Thank you for all you do.

I really appreciate it. Oh, praise God. But my question, if we're all understand, where does that leave, like, aborted babies and, you know, miscarried babies, thing of that nature, and people that are born with mental conditions that, you know, like sometimes they can't even choose to go to the bathroom.

Right. Like, where does that, like... Well, we are all by nature children of wrath, Ephesians 2-3 says, but the Bible also does not tell us what happens to the mentally deficient or those who are lost in miscarriages or abortion. So we don't know, and so I don't make any comments about it other than to say I hope that all of them go to heaven, and that's my position. I've lost a son right after birth. He had a birth defect, and he perished literally in our arms, and I expect to see him again on that day of judgment and, you know, in the afterlife. Yes, sir.

The Bible just does not tell us, but we know that God always does what is right, and whatever happens is right, but he just doesn't tell us, so... Okay. Okay. But... So it's like on occasions where you go with what it says and don't add to it. Exactly right.

That is great wisdom. Don't add to what it says, because then that's usually when heresy abounds. But the closest we can say is that... Let's see, here we go, there we go. The closest we can say is that we have David who said, you know, when he lost his son, shortly after birth, he said, I know I will see my son in the resurrection. And so there's an implication there that the children go be with him. Now, he was a covenant situation, and that adds another nuance to the whole thing, but we don't know how much it applies just to the people of Israel because all people are under covenant obligation with God in Adam. Romans 5.18, Romans 5.19 talks about that. So it's more complicated theologically. And, you know, except for not the children that come to me.

The children are blessed. So a lot of people think that basically they all go to heaven. And I like that position, hope that's what it is, and we'll find out when we get to heaven. Okay. Well, thank you very much, sir. Well, you're welcome very much. All right. I appreciate you. All right, ma'am. Well, God bless. All right. Bye-bye.

Okay. That was Randy from Kentucky. So now we have open lines again.

More open lines, three open lines. You want to give me a call? 877-207-2276. Let's get to, let's see, that'll be Rick from California. Rick, welcome. You're on the air. Hello. Hello. How are you doing? I'm doing all right.

So what's up? Good. Yeah, my question. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Yeah. Oh, okay. My question to you is what will God say to us when we die? What is the thing he's going to really say to us? Well, there's nothing in the Bible that says he's going to say anything to us that I'm aware of. So I don't know. You know, I just not have seen that, that when we die, we face him, God's going to ask, you know, what were you doing and things like that.

Except there are, Jesus talks about various places in the Gospels about the requirements, in the parables, the requirements. What have you done with what I've given you? To the people who had certain abilities and things like that. So, you know, that's the strongest we get to as a hint that maybe he might ask us something. But the thing is that those who've trusted in Christ, who believe that he's God in flesh and that he rose from the dead three days later and he's the atoning sacrifice for our sin and those who have trusted in Christ alone by faith alone, not by sincerity, not by works, not by baptism, not by anything, but by faith in Christ alone for his atoning sacrifice, then we have passed out of condemnation, passed out of judgment. And so we will be with him forever. And there will be a reckoning based upon our works, what we have done with what he gave us, with an increase in reward or a loss in reward. And that will happen on the day of judgment. But how great is your reward in heaven versus how you may have lost a little reward in heaven but you're still in heaven, that kind of a thing. You don't think he's going to ask us what we did with our lives or anything like that?

There's going to be an accounting. And here's the thing about what's happening in the Christian church today. Therapeutic Christianity, the best life now mentality, worship songs that are about God bless me. Instead of outwardness, there's inwardness. There's self-centered narcissistic theological stuff and preachers and teachers and things like that, which is why the church is so ineffective because it's atrophied, because it does not need to be stretched.

It's too comfortable and apathetic. And so a lot of people who are Christians are going to be surprised at the loss of reward that they have because every Christian is to pick up his cross or fall for Christ daily and carry out the great commission. However, that manifests. That's between God and that individual. But we are to use what God has given us for his glory and for the expansion of the kingdom. And so people, Christians who just think we're saved and that's fine by faith, justified by faith, that's good. But they don't realize that God requires of them to do.

He didn't save us to make his trophies on a shelf. He saved us to send us and for his glory, of course, Isaiah 43.7. But this is what we're to do as Christians. We're not to be narcissistic.

I just got one other thing. It says in the Bible that there will be Christians that said, Lord, Lord, that they're saved to help save people and God's going to say, Depart from me because I never knew you. Oh, that's Matthew 7, 22 and 23, but they're not Christians.

Oh, they're not Christians. No, because it says many will say to me that day that they're appealing to salvation based on their faith and their works. And so what he says is many will say to me on that day, that's the day of judgment, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not cast out demons in your name? Did we not perform any miracles in your name? And Jesus says, and I'll say to them, I never knew you.

Depart from me, you workers of evil. Now, even though they were healing and doing things in his name, he called them workers of evil because it's not done for the glory of God, not done as a Christian, but for different reasons. So that's just a demonstration on the day of judgment. There will be people who are appealing to salvation based upon their faith and their works. Look what we did, because I'll tell you, when I'm facing Christ, and it's not going to happen like this, but if God said, watch, I'll let you into heaven, I'm just saying because of Jesus, that's it. He atoned, he died, he rose, and I was granted even the faith to believe in him.

Philippians 1.29. That's it. I got nothing else. It's all of Christ.

That's him. Okay? One other thing, if you don't mind. And also, the greatest commandment of all these things is to love one another?

Nope. Is that also one of those things? No, the greatest commandment is to love God. Okay, that's the greatest commandment. That's out of Deuteronomy 6.5, which Jesus quoted in Matthew 22.37. That's the greatest commandment. The second one is from Leviticus 19.18, love your neighbor as yourself, which Jesus then quotes in Matthew 22.39. And he says, and those two commandments are the summation of the law.

Okay? The greatest commandment is to love God. The second is to love your neighbor. And you'll notice, here's something about love. A lot of people think that love, it means make me comfortable.

Nope. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. Jesus says a greater love has no man than this, but he lays his life down for his friend.

That's John 15.13. And so the nature of love is other-centered. And so to love God is to focus on him because he's the greatest that there is. And there's nothing beyond him, nothing greater than him. He's the ultimate standard of truth and moral perfection.

And then because of that, we are to love others as well. Other-centeredness, not self-centeredness. Okay? All right, buddy? All right. All right, man. Okay. All right. Hey, folks.

Three Open Lines. You want to give me a call? 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right. Welcome back to the show, everyone. We have two Open Lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Matt from Iowa. Matt, welcome. You're on the air. Thank you for having me. I haven't listened to you in a long time.

I don't have a station that gets you anymore, so I just found your podcast on here. I searched for you because my brother is the Seventh-day Adventist. And he's really been telling me some stuff.

He's kind of going through things, and he's had me watch some stuff, and I pointed out some errors I kind of found that in their thinking. And one of them was in Jude 6 and 7, where they really use 7 a lot to say that we're going to all be destroyed. There's no hell because it's like Sodom and Gomorrah. Right. But if you read 6 and you include 6 into it, it talks about the angels who didn't keep their domain. They're going to have everlasting chains and darkness and judgment, you know, whatever, and it just goes on forever. But they kind of reword that kind of stuff.

And also in Revelation 14 and 11... Hold on, hold on. Let's tackle that. Let's tackle that first.

All right. Okay, now Jude 7 is very interesting. But I'll read 6 and 7 and show you why what he's saying is incorrect. Because the SDA group, which I would never recommend anybody to go to, I'd be glad to debate with your brother. I'm trying to get a hold of it.

Yeah, I'd be glad to discuss it or debate with him about various things. This is what it says in Jude 6 and 7. And the angels who did not keep their own domain but abandoned their proper abode, he kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day.

Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh. That's people. They are exhibited. Now this is important because exhibited in the Greek here is in the present tense. It just means present tense. This is important.

I'll tell you why. They are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. The word undergoing in Greek is what's called a present participle. A participle is eating, walking, seeing. It's an ing word. And they have in Greek present participles, different participles. The present participle takes its time, location in time, past, present, future, from the preceding verb which happens to be in present tense. So are exhibited is now as an example in undergoing. It's like saying in the Greek, are presently exhibited as presently undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

It's happening now. That's what it's talking about. So he completely fails to understand what that verse is teaching. All right? Right. He referenced the man.

I can't believe I can't. He does the amazing fax thing or whatever. Yeah, I challenged the guy to a debate. I met him in person at NRB in Tennessee last year and I said, you know, I'd love to build a debate view on these issues. And I said, I'm a Christian apologist.

I'd love to have a discussion with you on my show or we can arrange it. And he said, no, not interested. And I said, doesn't the Bible tell you to give an answer to everyone who would ask you?

I said, I'm asking. And he wasn't interested in having a debate. Right.

So why is it? I watched the sermon that he had and he leaves stuff out. Oh, he does. Yeah. He was doing a sermon the other day when he was talking about revelation about dying and he refills, he talks about revelation 14, uh, nine and 10, and then he skipped 11. And, um, in revelation 14, 11, it, um, it talks about, uh, right. Hold on. Let me put it here. You know, and they're smoking with them forever and ever. And they have no rest there. And I, who was the beast in this image. And he skipped that because it kind of goes against what they believe.

Exactly. And I was trying to explain to my brother that the Jehovah Witnesses do the same thing because I've, I've actually used your site a lot to talk to some Jehovah Witness friends of mine because it's really helpful. I told my brother to go to your site.

I really think you should, you should listen to this guy because you know, um, I think yeah, he's pretty wise when it comes to stuff. So, you know, on CARM, there's a whole section on annihilationism. I've written 182 articles dealing with it.

182. And a lot of them are word studies and things like that. But I do a lot of articles on this, uh, this error of soul sleep and the issue of eternal punishment. So the annihilationists are flat out wrong. The Jehovah's Witnesses cult is wrong and the SDA movement is also wrong. And that's not even the worst thing that the SDA teaches. The worst thing it teaches is that our sins we put on Satan at the end, which is heresy. Jesus. Really? I did not, I did not know that.

I did not know that. My brother's kind of new to the religion and they kind of puffed him up and he actually has given him some sermons because he's really been diving into this Walter Bates guy or something. And he talks about a lot of stuff.

Have him call the radio show or have him email this. So if you want to have a discussion over the phone, I'd be glad to talk to him and show him things. But it's a lot of people consider the SDA to be a cult. Uh, it just depends on which, which portion of SDA you're talking about.

But it's definitely has some cultic things and some false teachings. Okay. All right, buddy. I appreciate it. Thank you very much, man. All right, man. God bless.

All right. Let's get to, let's see. That would be Rick from High Point, North Carolina. Rick, welcome. You're on the air.

Are you there? Rick? Hello? I can't hear you, Rick. How are you doing, Rick?

How are you doing, Matt? Okay. Doing all right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay. Doing all right.

What do you got, buddy? All right. I hadn't heard from you in a while and that's fine. Okay. Uh, first off, man, you have a love-hate relationship.

That's cool. Now, I need you to just let me rant and then I just want your opinion on everything. No, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. Here we go.

I just want you to rant about. So, I just needed, okay. Do you have a question? No, it's about Christianity. Okay.

Yes. All right. First off, uh, it really bothers me to listen to these so-called, uh, students who call and I'm not judging anybody all about, you know, uh, I, I'm, I'm, I didn't just, I just call it as I said, this literally live with limp-wristed society of Christians who, especially in the modern day church, have to be politically correct. And people like you just said, they want to just feel good.

Hell is going to be for a whole lot of good people that know nothing about please let this people know Christianity is not that complicated. Okay. It's just frustrating. You have a question, but Rick, would you have a question though? Yes, sir. Here's, here's my, here's my question. My question is what do you think about modern day Christianity in the church when preachers refuse, no, not preachers, pastors refuse to address this major sin, homosexuality, uh, there's not, I don't call it abortion, but you need to ask me a question because each time you get on, you want to, you want to really take off and just start talking. But this is a call in talk show and question answers.

So do you do? Okay, go ahead. Okay. What's your question?

All right. My question is what, what, what did you think will revolutionize the modern day church the way it should be in your opinion? Oh, it's, it's biblical persecution. The persecution of the Christian church is coming.

It's most definitely absolutely coming. The Christian church is going to be purified because the Christian church has been lazy. The Christian church has failed to be other centered. It's been self centered. We have heretical teachers like Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer. We have, uh, Joel Osteen out there teaching false things. People have bought into the comfort me hammock theology and have gotten lazy, lazy, apathetic, and the persecution is coming.

The church will be strengthened through it. Hold on. I got a break.

Okay, buddy. Hey folks, one open line. Give me a call. 877-2-0-7-2-2-7-6 be right back.

It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-2-0-7-2-2-7-6 here's Matt Slick. Okay. Welcome back everybody. It's the bottom of the hour and if you want to give me a call 877-2-0-7-2-2-7-6 let's get back to Rick.

Hey Rick, are you there? Yes, sir. All right. I'm here. Yes, sir.

I'm here. Okay. Yeah. I'm going to interrupt you here. I'm going to say something. You actually remind me. Yes, sir. Of me. And, uh, and that could be good.

It could be. Okay. I'm sorry.

Because you see things and you're concerned about them and that means you have a good dedication to the Lord. And I appreciate that. Now I got to tell you though, the reason I'm hesitant so much, let people rant is because I don't know what they're going to say, but doing radio a long time, so I was going to be careful. I understand. I understand.

I'm sorry. That's all right. It's all right. That's all right. Okay. I got two quick questions and I'll take the answers off that.

First off, I would like for you to explain why are the major sins, out of all the sins that condemned people or Christians will say, why is homosexuality, adultery, and abortion, only the three people talk about. That's the first question and the second one is I want you to give your insight on today's modern day racism from a better biblical sense. And I thank you, Matt. I enjoy talking to you. Okay. Okay, man. God bless. All right. Enjoy your day. All right. Um, so, uh, where are these things, uh, talked about very much more?

I'm coincidentally coincidental. I'm actually working on something about all of this and, um, I haven't yet formulated how it's all going to be presented and stuff like that, but, uh, uh, one of the great tragedies in America has been the separation of church and state. Uh, nothing in scripture says church and state are separated, nothing, uh, okay. Others should be preaching politics from the pulpit because Christ is Lord over every area of existence, not just church stuff and the unbelievers can have the secular domain.

That's not how it works. Jesus is Lord now and if you're all millennial like me, then we are in his kingdom and the reason that the kingdom isn't doing as much as it needs to is because we're not believing what we can and need to move forward and change the world. But that's another topic. So I believe that a lot of pastors are afraid to speak because they're afraid of persecution. They're afraid it might offend the people in the congregation. If they're afraid of persecution and also afraid of, uh, people in the congregation might leave because if they preach something that that is true, then they should either repent on their knees right now or when they hear this and the other time the Lord speaks to them, they should repent and then start preaching to please God and not be men pleasers.

We need to be able to count the cost as Jesus required of us to pick up the cross daily and if we're not willing to do that, then we're not willing, then we're not qualified as ministers of the gospel to preach and teach and needs to be done. We need to speak of homosexuality and it's great sinfulness, it's abortion, it's great sinfulness. Um, socialism is not biblical folks. It is not biblical.

You call me up and I can tell you why we can do some more discussions on that. And racism of course is not biblical. In fact, the Bible doesn't ever address racism, uh, in the sense of color of skin because it doesn't care because we're all one race. We are all one race, a human race.

We have different, uh, different skin tones, heights, body shapes, and that's how it is. That's how I see people and the only thing I care about is, are you a Christian or not a Christian? That's the first thing I care about, I should say, and I want to see what kind of person you are. You're a good character. I don't care what color you are.

I don't care. And so, uh, this is the biblical position and what is happening is in order for the left to remake America and the movements that are alive and well in America, in the leftist news, the leftist media, the leftist, uh, big tech groups, uh, where conservatives are being penalized and being censored. What they want to do is control and get more power. And one of the ways they do this is to foment unrest and problems.

And the way to do that is go, I'm white, so I'm automatically guilty of white supremacy and all whites are racist, whether you want to admit it or not. And this causes resentment. It causes problems.

It causes factions. And then the minorities are taught that the whites are bad and evil and systemic racism and CRT, you know, Christian critical race theory, all this kind of stuff is used by the enemy. Romans, excuse me, Ephesians 6, 12 says we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities of darkness. This is a spiritual issue and we Christians need to put our eyes on the word of God. We need to start preaching and teaching and taking risks to please God.

And I'm going to tell you something Philippians 1 29 says has been granted to you to believe, but also to suffer that God appoints these things to us. The reason suffering is appointed by God to us is because we get so comfortable that we become apathetic and we don't do what's necessary. And if we become comfortable, we don't need to pray for God to deliver. We don't need to pray to God to help. And so our knees don't get bent that often in humble dependence upon God as we open our hearts and our minds to him. And because of that, the church has become lackadaisical and so we seek things like our best life now. Or Jesus died on the cross to sanctify your ego trip.

That was Robert Schuller and of course Joel Osteen says, your best life now, your best life now. What narcissistic kindergarten wimpy crud theology that is. The guy couldn't preach his way out of a wet paper bag, he's despicable preaching and teaching from him. And Joyce Meyer who teaches heresy about the atoning work and the significance of Christ and his death on the cross. There are so many heresies out there folks.

T.D. Jakes denies the trinity. There are so many teachers out there.

And yet the Christian church, Christian church doesn't have enough knowledge to be able to do what's necessary and say enough of this. Why? It's comfortable. If you sit in a chair all day, day after day after day and you get up, whoa, that didn't feel so good. We go into our comfortable churches day after day after day and all of a sudden it gets difficult out there. Well, that didn't feel good.

I need more comfort. So let me go sing some praise songs about how God's going to bless me. Let's turn on Kenneth Copeland to talk about how God wants us healthy and wealthy. Let's talk to the people.

Let's go seek them who tickle our ears. Well, God's had enough of it and he's going to purify the church. Folks, persecution's coming. I'll be talking more about it later.

I'm doing some videos. You'd be surprised at what's coming down the works on the basis of our government and how they define terrorists and Christians are right in line in that definition. It's coming folks. Just letting you know. Let's get to Chris from Boise, Idaho. Chris, what's up buddy?

Hey Matt. How are you doing? I'm doing all right. Just a little bit of a rant.

What's up? Oh, no worries. Um, yeah, so, okay. So I had a question, um, I, I call into the atheist experience because, uh, I'm, I'm always speaking out like that, uh, argument for the existence of God, okay. That are, that are effective and you know, because I thought that knows about these atheists is they kind of have a, there's like an arrogant, you know, like there's a condescending arrogance that they have and so my question to you is what do you think is the, well, I just wanted to kind of just briefly, uh, describe kind of what I was thinking with the distance of God is like that there's a foundational particles from the moment that the universe sprang into existence. Those particles have, uh, the atom has an energy has aligned itself with, uh, you know, with the laws of the universe, um, and then you're, you're, you're on shaky ground, you're on shaky ground. Oh, am I? Okay.

Why do you say that? They're a court of the laws, but they're kind of simultaneous, but yet you're separating them and that, uh, with the, the laws of physics and the relationship to matter and things like that. Uh, so the main areas of, of doctrine that deal with arguments that deal with the existence of God are moral, um, and, uh, the very, very fact of things existing and also rationality. Now rationality is with the tag argument. I'm known for that and the necessary preconditions for intelligibility, the universals that undergird the laws of logic, which I'm not getting into right now. There's also the issue of morals and universal moral principles and the valid validity of truth statements and the law of excluded middle. And you know, I could get into this.

I could do a seminar on this, but also, um, one of the things you can do is if you're talking to somebody, you know, say as you're talking to them on camera and they, they take a cup and they drink out of it or a glass, they go on. There's evidence for God right there, that glass you're holding. And uh, they'll say, how so? Well, because it exists and the very fact that it exists means that it has a cause and you have to get to the issue of the initial cause of the things that support his existence and that cause either personal or impersonal because all things then must point to God.

And if an atheist says, no, then he's saying that all evidence and all actuality does not point to God. What's his reason for that? You can go on the attack very easily. Hold on. We've got a break, be right back folks after these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show. Excuse me, Chris, are you still there?

Yes, I'm here. All right. Yes.

I could teach and maybe I'll have to do a seminar or something like that online and go through arguments and how to answer and things like that because it takes a little bit of digging so that you can plug holes and create them in the process. Okay. Okay. So, um, cause I mean I was watching, you know, I watched that debate with you and Matt Dillahunty and he was basically declaring a, I dismantled the TH, the tag, the tag argument, because I think you guys got stuck on a, like, is it conceptual or something that he was basically saying there's a fallacy there, right?

Yeah. I call it the Dillahunty Dodge where he said it's not physical, nor is it abstract. And I said, well then what is it? And he said, I don't have to know what it is in order to tell you that's not either one, but it doesn't make any sense because the evidence is that abstractions are of the mind because the laws of logic are not dependent upon the physical world because properties of the physical world are measurable, like, like a dark, uh, you know, a bowling ball has roundness, has mass, has volume, has, uh, reflectivity, has density, things like that. These are properties and they're all measurable, but the laws of logic are not, therefore they're not the properties of the physical universe.

If not the properties of the physical universe, but they occur in our mind, then tell, please tell me what are they? Is that certain, he says they're not abstractions. Well then what are they? He didn't have an answer.

And so the atheist like to say, well, you don't have to have a third option. We just know what it's not. What's saying it's not an abstraction doesn't mean it's not.

And so he did not do well. Well, right. Cause he's saying that there may not be a label for it is what he's saying. Like it's not really our place to put a label on it.

Well, here's the problem with that. I mean, they're saying, they're saying, I know it's not an abstraction is what he's saying. He recognized that it's not a property of the physical realm. That means it's not dependent upon the physical realm, but yet it has existence.

If he was a little more sophisticated, he had gone into the idea of propositions that are truth bearing entities that don't have, as they would like to say, abstract qualities, but this is a more science fiction, anything else. So that, you know, I'm ready for them and, uh, we could have more discussions, but yeah. Yeah.

I'd like to hear you maybe. Yeah. Yeah. So I appreciate it. Um, but yeah, I'm going to look into your tag argument because I think you have, I mean, if anything, there's a good state to start from and, and you know what I'm saying?

Yep. And it's, I'll definitely, uh, look into it more and I'd like to hear you guys go at it again, you know, like, uh, our last debate we had, uh, about three or four years ago in Dallas. Uh, I don't think it went too well for him because he's a, uh, materialist and you can look up that and you can see what happened at the end of that debate.

He got upset afterwards when he did a video about it. All right. I'll take a listen though. I appreciate it. Yep. Thank you. Yes.

Ed, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, how you doing? Doing all right. Yeah.

What do you got? Hey, um, I heard you say a little while ago, uh, Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Copeland, Joel Alstein, uh, heresy, false teachings. I hear them all the time say that they're, Jesus is Lord, they're saved and they need people to Christ. Are you saying because of their false teachings that they're not saved or what is it exactly? I mean, how can you be saved and have false teachings? I'm just curious about that. Well, people can be saved and have false teaching.

There's different levels that people can have, but it depends on what, what it is. What would you say if I said to you that someone said, what do you think of this statement? He could have helped himself up until that point where he said, I commend my spirit to his hands. At that point he could, couldn't do nothing for himself anymore. He had become sin. He was no longer the son of God.

What do you, what do you think of that if someone said Jesus at the cross stopped being the son of God? Are you there? Yes, sir. That's Joyce Meyer. Okay.

Here's another one from Joyce Meyer. All right. Says that, um, uh, let's see, uh, the minute that blood sacrifice was accepted, Jesus was the first human being that was ever born again.

Okay. That's a, that's a damnable heresy. Jesus paid for our sins in hell. He became our sacrifice and died on the cross. He did not stay dead.

He was in the grave three days during that time. He entered hell where you and I deserve to go legally because of our sin. He paid the price there. That's the most important decision you'll ever make by Joyce Meyer.

Second printing, May, 1993 page 35. That is damnable heresy and what now there's heresy. You know, you believe that in a soul sleep or in annihilation is about a heresy.

It's not a, you know, you can still be saved. Damnable heresy is when you attack the personal work of Christ as an example or the true and living God. And to say that Jesus finished the atonement there, paid the price there in hell is damnable because it means that he did not finish it on the cross. When he said so in John, 1938 is finished. He bore our sin in his body in the cross.

First Peter 2 24. She is teaching damnable heresy. She's never repented of it.

Okay. You can't call her a Christian. And, you know, publicly, I'm telling you, you can't call her a Christian because if she's going to say that Jesus paid for our sins, he paid the price in hell where we're supposed to go, that's denying this blood sacrifice on the cross. And she said this, his spirit went to hell because that is where we deserve to go. There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth. So you can't go to heaven unless you believe that Jesus went to hell where we deserve to go.

And remember, that's where he paid the price. This is damnable heresy. I cannot call her a sister in Christ.

Okay. There's more. She says we're little gods, she says she's not a sinner, but the host of hell was literally on Jesus and they were laughing. She gets revelation knowledge.

I'm telling you, this is serious stuff. And publicly, I would love to have a discussion with her. We've tried to contact the ministry.

They won't have anything to do with us. And I'd call her on the carpet, and I have to do it publicly now because she's a false teacher. So if she were to say, look, all these things I taught, I repent of them.

They were all false. I've come out of this and I've recognized its error. Then we can move forward. But if she will not do that, and I'm certainly not aware that she has, it's possible she has, but I haven't seen it. Okay. Is she still a teacher? Well, I have not seen her announce it. And what she's probably done is not teach it anymore, probably, because people will jump on her. And so it looks like what's happening, in my opinion, is that she's wary of saying stupid heresies anymore. Okay? All right?

That's just her. You know what Kenneth Copeland said? You know who he is, right? Oh, I've heard a lot from Kenneth Copeland. My early life of Christianity was listening to him. He's a flaming heretic. He says this, heaven has a north and a south and an east and a west.

Consequently, it must be a planet. Faith is a powerful... Have you ever heard that one? Oh, yeah.

So Spirit and Soul Body, Fort Worth, Texas, Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1985, audio tape number 010601, side one. Okay? How about this? You don't think Earth was the first... Do you? Huh? No.

It's a copy of the mother planet. That's what he said there. This is... We're talking heresies here.

All right? This is bad stuff. Now heresy, are you saying they're not satisfied by saying they're heretic? I'll be careful how I'm saying some things, but I'm going to just tell you this, that Kenneth Copeland is a sadly horrible teacher of theology. He says, I was shocked when I found out who the biggest failure in the Bible actually is.

The biggest one is God. He lost his top ranking, most anointed angel, first man ever created, first woman ever created, etc. Calls God a failure. Kenneth Copeland said, God spoke to Adam into existence in authority with words. These words struck Adam's body in the face.

His body and God were exactly the same size. Okay? I know. Wow.

Yeah. Oh, this is flaming heresy, all right? God has had no avenue of lasting faith or moving in the earth. He had to have covenant with somebody. He had to be invited in, in other words, or he couldn't come. God is on the outside looking in in order to have any say so in the earth. He's going to have to have an agreement with a man here. Poor God.

He can't do anything unless man's agreed to work with them. This is, this is stupidity. He doesn't even know how to teach basic theology. This is such blatant trash. It's trash. Okay?

I'm curious, I'm just wondering how they get their ministry still on the national level and blown up like it is. It's easy. Oh, I could do it if I wanted to. I could do the same thing.

I know how. All I got to do is tell people what they want to hear, tickle their ears and send out gimmick stuff to get money and speak in eloquent terms. You have to have a little bit of talent and how you present the words, brothers and sisters, you must believe in the word of God. You go on and you do it and you say it and you watch the congregation because you can, using your body language and using your tones and, and a cadence, you can influence how people receive things and you can get them to say, amen, amen, and amen.

You can do it as long as you're teaching them. And I remember the instant, the instant when I realized I had that ability and it was in Southern California on the Chapman traffic circle and it was a small church there, sunlight Christian center and I was teaching upstairs. And I realized that whatever I said next, I could sway one way or another. I could shape the words one way or another and get the people to believe a little something that way. I wanted to believe.

And I remember right there stopping right there. And I said, I prayed, I said, Lord, may I never use your truth to manipulate anybody. And I purposed to speak the word of God, no matter what it is, what the truth of God's word is. And people need to hear it. And that's why they need to hear Joyce Meyer and Kenneth Copeland are heretics.

They need to hear it. Benny Hinn is a heretic. How do you feel about, well, how do you feel about Matt, about people that, you know, that Kenneth Copeland, his biggest part of his ministry is you have what you say, because the world was created... It's sorcery. It's sorcery in New Age and Eastern mysticism.

You have what you say. This is exactly what the New Age teaches, that as you speak, you send out words into the universe and they come back to you because there's a divine essence out there. And if you confess things positively, then good stuff comes back to you.

Negatively bad stuff comes back to you. So you have to confess it because you're like a little God. Because you, in the Christian East, you have to be able to profess and claim the truth because God wants you healthy and wealthy.

And if you don't claim it, then you won't get it. It's manipulation. I could teach it.

I could teach it. I just believe. Well, I can't because I'm saved.

Holy Spirit's in me. I'm not going to lie. All right, buddy.

We're out of time. All right? Okay. Thanks, Matt. All right. Hey, sorry, Ryan from North Carolina and Micah from Colorado.

Give me a call tomorrow. Hey, guys. Heard about that. We're out of time. May the Lord bless you. Bye, His grace. Back on air tomorrow. Talk to you then. I am powered by the Truth Network.