Matt Slick Live

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Not a big deal. I'm going, Lord willing, and it's going to be a lot of fun. So there you go. All right, 4-Open Lines, 877-207-2276.

Let's get to Alberto from Georgia. Amen. Welcome. You're on the air. Yes, yes, sir.

It's clearly Matt Slick. Yeah, my question is why today churches teach that unbelievers or Christians have a free will when the scripture teaches that our will's enslaved because we have a preference or a free position of preference. In other words, we first come to thought, then our heart, and our will follows. In other words, it doesn't proceed. It follows.

What do you think about that? Well, let's define our terms a little bit more. Free will is the ability to make choices that are not forced, that you just want to make a choice and they're not forced upon you.

You can just freely do it. That's free will. Unbelievers have it. Believers have it. God has that. And we need to adapt that definition a little bit because a lot of people, unfortunately, think that free will means the ability to do anything you can think of and that's not true. And also, we have to make sure that people understand that God is a standard of what free will is and God can only do that which is consistent with his nature. He cannot lie. He cannot not be God. He can't misrepresent us or anything. So, we have to modify the definition of free will to say free will is the ability to do anything you want to do that's consistent with your nature as long as it's not forced on you.

And that's it. So, everybody has free will in that sense, believers and unbelievers. So, when we talk about the free will of unbelievers, what we're saying is that the unbelievers, as the Bible says, are a slave to sin, Romans 6, 14 through 20, can do no good, Romans 3, 10, 11, and 12, can't receive spiritual things, 1 Corinthians 2, 14, etc.

Well, because of this, this means that they are free. They're just free to act in a manner consistent with their fallenness. So, therefore, they will always freely choose to do that which is contrary to God and they will always freely choose to do that which is simple. So, we don't deny. I don't deny free will. Reform theologians don't deny free will. Armenians don't deny it. We have free will. Atheists, some atheists who are consistent materialists, will deny free will, but that's another topic. So, okay, go ahead.

So, for example, I heard this guy was talking in the videos on YouTube, right? He said, for example, if a person has to decide to go to the beach or go to work, now he has a choice to make, but his predisposition is go to work to be a responsible employer because he had to pay bills and he needs to keep his job. So, his predisposition, well, he'll go to work instead of go to the beach. So, he has to make a pre-preference, that's a preference to choose which way to go. So, he'll have to go to work. He has to make a choice. But the point is his predisposition or preference is more major towards going to work than going to the beach. Well, yeah, people will act according to their desires. They will act in a manner where they weigh options. And so, unbelievers and believers alike can make a choice to go to the beach or go to work any particular day.

And they can do that. Unbelievers unfortunately are not able to freely choose Christ of their own sinfully enslaved free will. And the Bible says so. And this is one of the mistakes that a lot of people are teaching in churches today that they can. That it's just up to the unbelievers' free will in their sinful enslaved state. And so, that's a false doctrine. But a lot of churches teach it because they're not studying biblical theology very much.

They just go with feelings and sensibilities. And so, God has to open their heart as he does to Lydia in Acts 16, 14. He opens the mind of the disciples to understand the word of God, Luke 24, 45. He grants that we believe, Philippians 1, 29, et cetera. And we cannot come to Christ unless it's been granted to us by the Father. And that's John 6, 65. So, these are the things that the Bible says. And most people don't like them because they have humanistic philosophy woven into their Christian theology.

Humanism is man-centeredness where man is the standard of what is right, what is wrong, what is true, what is false, et cetera. And so, what we do is we look at our own experience and we say, well, I am the one in my wisdom who chose God. Therefore, that's how it works. That's a humanistic philosophical position to determining truth. It's not submitting that will to God, but to their own sensibilities, which is what Eve did in the garden in Genesis 3 and led to the fall.

So, this is the stuff. I do discuss this quite a bit in other areas in far more depth, libertarianism, compatibilism, determinism, and the aseity of God. In fact, one of the things I'll do, I like to do this for fun, because when we attribute to a creature or a thing that attribute which belongs to God alone, then that's idolatry. What some people do is they don't realize that the quality of God's non-enslavement to sin is attributed to the unbeliever. And so, what they're doing is actually committing a heresy by attributing equality to God to the unbeliever. And that's called Pelagianism. Semipelagianism is the view that the human being is touched by sin, but he's still able to make a free choice.

He just needs the prevenient grace of God. Prevenient grace is the grace that comes before that enables someone to believe, and that is ridiculous. I call it kindergarten theology. It's amateur theology.

And I know there's some competent theologians who believe in it, and it's just ludicrous. Because if God is going to will that you come to salvation, he gives you a certain amount of grace. Doesn't he know how much grace to give you to get you to get saved in this scenario?

Of course he does. If he wants you to get saved, all he's going to do is throw his glory into your presence, and you're going to break. You're going to confess Christ. So, I get tired of the amateur theologians out there who want to make pronouncements on how God's supposed to be and how man is supposed to be when they don't understand what they're talking about. And that's the truth. It's one of the reasons the Christian church is not doing as well as it can be. And that's just one of the reasons there are others as well.

But at any rate, I'm now rambling a little bit more. Yeah, that's what the Methodists teach. Yeah, the prevenient grace, the Methodist church.

Yeah, it's ridiculous. They teach the prevenient grace. Yeah, yeah. Also, I was talking about it earlier, but the pretty real thing in Genesis 6, they said that man was continually doing evil. You know, continually. So, he can't help it.

So, basically, right? Well, that's the nature of the unbelievers is to sin. It is how much do they sin. So, an atheist, for example, will choose to do what we, on a human level, would say is good and bad.

He might give a wallet back to someone who just dropped it. Well, on a human level, we say that's good. On a divine level, it's not because he's not doing it for the glory of God, nor is that effort cleansed through the blood of Christ. So, unbelievers can only do that which is sinful, and they have degrees of sin that they will commit. The believers can still sin, but we are sanctified and justified through Christ, and our works are filtered through his blood. And so, therefore, we can, through Christ, do that which is good, because if we're going to return a person's wallet, at least the reason I would do it is because it would honor God. He would honor my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. And so, that's why I would do it.

And so, that would be then a good work, because the motive is good and the standard is good. The motive is to glorify God. The standard is his righteousness. And it's loving my neighbor according to what God has revealed and not a humanistic philosophy, which is becoming, unfortunately, more prevalent in Christian churches today. And the reason I'm saying this again is the apostasy is coming, and the Roman Catholic Church is already apostate. The Eastern Orthodox Church is apostate. And Protestantism is going apostate. Little by little, it's moving into apostasy. Not everybody, not all pastors, not all teachers, of course, there's a lot of good ones. I know several that are really good. And I know there's hundreds and hundreds and thousands of really good pastors and teachers out there.

But the overall way things are going is towards apostasy, which is what the Bible predicts in 2 Thessalonians 2. Okay? Okay, thank you, sir. God bless you. Keep up the great work, sir. Hey, you too, man.

God bless Alberto. I taught you later. Okay.

All right. All right, let's get to Martin from Virginia. Hey, oh, by the way, four open lines, 877-207-2276.

Give your call. Okay, Martin, you're on the air. Hey, Matt. Hey, Matt, thanks for taking my call.

Sure. So have you done any, I know you've done a lot of articles and stuff, Matt. I've just signed up to get on CARM, but I have not done any research on what you've written about angels. Oh, yeah. Have you studied angels much, or what are your thoughts on angels?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I've got a whole section on CARM, questions about angels. You can go check it out. So what do you want to know?

What's the idea? So from what I've gathered, there's strata, there's different types of angels, is that correct? Yes. Cherubim, seraphim, principalities, powers, yep.

Perfect. And I think the one that I think we're most commonly familiar with are like the guardian angel, obviously, the helpers of the Lord, of God, right? Well, I don't know of any guardian angels in the Bible. Well, guardian, well, how would you classify, like, Michael?

Your goaller? Archangel, sorry. Sorry. Michael? Archangel.

Paul, apologize. Well, there are archangels, and there are fewer archangels in cherubim than there are regular angels. That's the general consensus.

People talk about guardian angels that are assigned to us individually through their whole lives, but I don't see that in scripture. It may be the case. No, no, exactly. I don't know.

Yeah, I mean, it's hard to say, but you're right, it's not scripture. Yeah. How would you classify the fallen angel?

Is that right? They're fallen. Well, would you classify that as a Michael? Satan probably is an archangel, and some say, that's what I've heard.

I mean, I wouldn't know for sure. Now, there are three angels that are named, and that's Michael, Gabriel, and Lucifer. And Lucifer fell, and a third of the angels fell with him, except for the elect angels.

Believe it or not, there were elect angels that were chosen not to fall. Let's talk about that a little bit after the break, okay? Because we've got a message coming up. All right. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages.

Please stay tuned. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with, I guess, did we lose them?

I guess we did. Well, that's okay. No big deal. Okay, okay.

Next longest waiting person is Kim from Rural Hall, North Carolina. Kim, welcome. You're on the air. Thank you, Matt. My question is coming from Matthew 7. From what?

21 and 22. Matthew what? And there's another verse where Jesus... I'm sorry.

I couldn't hear the first word. Matthew what? And there's another verse...

Wait, I don't know what you're talking about. Matthew what? Matthew 7, verse 21 and 22.

Okay. Yeah. And then there's a verse somewhere where Jesus gave the disciples the power to catch that devil. So my question is, is it possible to be filled with the Spirit and still go to hell? Filled with the Spirit?

No. Being filled with the Spirit of God means that the Spirit is indwelling you. That's what we understand it to mean. And so, you know, that means you're saved. Okay. Okay.

So if that's the case, then when Judas was filled with the Spirit to catch that devil Well, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait, wait, wait. Hold on.

No, hold on, hold on, hold on. You've got to be careful. You can't just assume certain things. Where does it say that Judas was filled with the Spirit?

Okay. It says in Scripture that to cast out devils you have to be filled with the Spirit. Where does it say that?

Is that not true? No, no, no. Jesus did it. Jesus said the way he cast out devils is by the Spirit of God. The way he did it by the Holy Spirit, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

But you've got to be very, very careful what you do. You can't just say, well, he did it by the power of the Holy Spirit, therefore the disciples do it the exact same way. It might be the case. It might not be. We can't assume.

Okay. We know that the power of Jesus' name is such that the sons of Sceva, I think it was in Acts 8 or 8, I believe it was, I can't remember for sure, where they were casting out demons and demons jumped on them because they were using Jesus' name. There's power in the name of Christ. But in Matthew 10 it says Jesus summoned his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits to cast them out. So he just gave them the authority to do it. And I would assume that that was Judas in there as well who had that authority, but it doesn't mean he was saved.

Okay? So these people in Matthew 7 that said they were casting out demons were not filled with the Holy Spirit. Well, I wouldn't say so. They were doing it by his name. Well, notice what it says. Many will say to me on that day, do we not prophesy in her name, in her name, cast out demons in her name before many miracles? It doesn't say they were casting them out.

It says they were going to claim this. So we do know that demons are very deceptive and we could have Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, you could have Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, you could have all kinds of people who were in false religious groups and they could say in the name of Jesus cast out. And a demon could just lay low and pretend to have been cast out in order to get people to be deceived to believe a lie. That's certainly possible.

You see? So they said they did. But in that case, that's an assumption that could happen, but not necessarily that is going to happen. Not necessarily.

That's just the logical issue. Now, when we look at it, when we cast out demons in her name before many miracles, the implication is, well, yeah, they did that because they said we perform miracles. Well, okay, that they can perform miracles, but the unbelievers can perform miracles as well. The sorcerers of Pharaoh's time were able to mimic a lot of what Aaron could do. And I wrote an article on this a few weeks ago, how to identify false miracle workers.

So it's possible to do this. We've got to be very careful what we say. So it comes down to this, that the name of Jesus Christ is very powerful and even unbelievers can use it. And just because you cast out demons, et cetera, it doesn't mean you're a Christian. And then there's the issue of demons can appear to be cast out and not really be cast out.

And then there's the issue, well, they really can be cast out. So it's very difficult to discern between all of the variations, which one is the right one at any particular time. You have to ask more questions. You have to say, okay, well, what is this?

What is that? Ask questions and stuff. So that's what I'm doing, is laying the foundation, the logical options out of scripture, and then saying, now we would have to look at particular instances to see if they're true or not, or of God or not.

Okay. So in essence, when he said, I didn't know you, it's a possibility that they were doing it, but not in the spirit. Well, it says, I never knew you means they were never saved.

It's a phrase. If God knows you, you're saved. If he does not know you, you're not saved.

He says, I never knew you. Then those people who were prophesying, casting out demons and performing miracles were never saved. They were never saved. Don't get hooked on this idea that they have to be indwelt by the spirit of God in order to perform a miracle. Don't get on, don't do that.

Okay. Because if they're performing miracles... Okay, not so much a miracle, but just to raise someone or raise one from the dead. You have to be filled with the spirit. No, no, you don't.

No, you don't. Because there are accounts of false religious systems and people who have, so to speak, raised the dead. And if it has occurred even once, which I doubt, but if it's even occurred once, then that's proof that's not the case. But there have been demonic manifestations of healings.

It's out there. But in the case of Judas, he got his power through Jesus, right? Jesus gave him the authority.

Just gave him the authority. Okay. And it says in John 6 63 that people who were betraying him, and it says that Jesus is the spirit who gives life the words... Oh, 64, excuse me.

For there are some here who did not believe, for Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe and who it was who would betray him. Okay, John 6 64. All right? Okay? Okay. Well, thank you, now. All right, hope that helps. Okay, buddy, God bless. God bless. All right. Okay, let's just jump on the line. The next longest waiting person is Jamie from Seattle, Washington. Jamie, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt.

How's it going? I was calling, I was going to say, what do you make of Ezekiel 28 19? As far, I think it seems to indicate a conditional immortality. I'd like to see your interpretation. Ezekiel 28, oh, you hold to the idea of annihilation? Yeah, you know, this old sweet guy, that's me.

Okay. 28 19, all who know you among the people are appalled at you. You have become terrified. You will cease to be forever. Yeah, never shall thou be any more forever. It's the New King James Version, anyway.

It's got the word for forever, though. Okay, and so if that's all the verse you had, you can make a case for it. Yeah, well, what are the verses that would you say? Are you saying that that one has to be interpreted some other way? Or how would you like exegete that passage, I guess? Well, I would say, I would say that if that's the only verse you had, you could make a case for it. That's what I said. Oh, okay.

If it's the only verse you have, but it's not. Hold on, I got a break. Okay, hold on, buddy. Hey, folks, we have two open lines, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back.

877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. All right, Jamie, are you still there?

I'm still here. All right, so I've got a question for you about that verse. Have you read the context? Yeah, it seems to be the power behind the Prince of Tyre or something.

The power behind. It's generally understood to be the devil, because it says you were the appointed cherub in verse 14. You were blameless in your ways, verse 15, and the abundance of your trade, and by the multitude of you, your iniquities all annoy you. So if it's dealing with Satan, let me ask you, do you believe Satan's going to be annihilated? Yeah, I think all the lost are annihilated. That is, I don't really like that language because it can give the wrong perception.

I do prefer conditional mortality because I think that's what's taught in the Bible, that life is granted by God, and those who don't receive it lose it, and that would mean, and then there you go with the soul sleep thing. You're deceived by that, by the false teachings of the annihilationist group. Okay. Okay. You are.

I get that a lot, yeah. Yeah, and you should. I've written 182 articles on this. 182 on just annihilationism.

I'm still reviewing them. Okay, and I've done all kinds of studies and all kinds of stuff in all kinds of ways. Now, if you're going to say that we stop existing, or the bad stop existing, their non-existence is the punishment. Is that correct?

I would say, yes, I guess. I would say the punishment is death, you know, with the definition I hold of it. What do you mean? What death? You're talking about annihilationism? The station of life, I guess. Okay, so non-existence.

Well, I would say Jesus died in place of us, so penal substitution would be he died instead of us. Hold on. So you're just saying then that a person is annihilated. That's their punishment, right? Yeah. Okay. How is non-existence a punishment?

It's just nothing. I guess I would say the losing life, the God of the living. So do you experience the losing of life?

I don't think the Bible is clear if you mean in terms of the fate of being thrown into hell. Do you experience losing life? Yes. How do you experience losing life? Because it's just a station, it's nothing. How do you experience nothing?

Sorry, go ahead. How do you experience nothing? Well, it's kind of like the man on the bridge. Like, where's the man on the bridge when he jumps? You know, it's like, you know, in the air? No, it's after he jumps.

Well, he's still on the bridge? No, that's before. Have you studied how God talks about punishment? I can tell you I have not. Yeah. No, you haven't. You say I have. No.

I mean, it depends on what you mean by study. I'm not a degree or anything in theology, but I've looked at the issue for a long time. So God... I mean...

Sorry, go ahead. When he punishes people, they experience the punishment. Genesis 4.13. Cain said to God, my punishment is too great to bear. Leviticus 19.20, there shall be punishment, they shall not, however, be put to death. Genesis, Chronicles 6.23 says, punishing the wicked by bringing his way on his own head. Punishment... That's just some of the verses. Yeah, that's an interesting point, because we were talking about this one in that group that we're hoping you'll come visit, but that punishment or judgment, is that talking about the... leading up to it, or is judgment always the punishment that comes from God's judgment? You can kind of use it both ways, I would say, you know what I mean?

You know, here's the thing. The punishment I've studied, all of the words in the Bible, Old and New Testament, okay, which is more than what I can say for your buddies, okay, duration and nature not specified, approximately 55 verses or 44%, says the duration and the nature is not specified of punishment. Another category, 30%, and I think all these percentage add over 100% because some of them could be interpreted in two different ways, okay? Sure, yeah, that's kind of what I'm getting at. So experienced for a long period of time, approximately 30% of the verses talked about punishment, talked about it being experienced over a long period of time. 21% talked about death or physical destruction.

And 5%, just a figurative usage. So which one is the right one? Which one's the right one now for punishment?

For punishment, I'm not sure. I guess I haven't studied that word, at least not recently. There's a website you can go to for that.

You can go to a website called CARM, look up annihilationism. Yeah, there you go. I'm still reviewing it. I have looked at some of your stuff there. I'm still looking at it.

What would be the most productive way to engage that? I mean, read in the articles. Just read it. Just read it. Go study, go check what I say, go check.

And if you disagree with something, let me know, and that's fine. I'm not saying I got everything right all the time everywhere, but I really do study. I mean, I spent months. I know, I've seen it. I saw the list. A lot of stuff.

It's pretty cool. So here's the thing. We know that God uses punishment in different ways. Why is it that you must assume, then, that punishment is non-existence of the wicked?

I guess for me, I think the picture that's described in Genesis, which is where I would feel is the best place to start, indicates, for one, because of the nature of man and the way he becomes the fish, and the animals are said in the same way. And then I would mainly also say, though, that when God says, you know, the lie in the garden was that you won't die, and then when I see God saying, now man has become like one of us, knowing good from evil, and he banishes him from the tree of life, lest he live forever, presumably in sin, right? He doesn't want him to live forever in sin. Right.

It just kind of makes sense to me that that's a cessation of life, because it's contrasted with, you know, lest he live forever sort of thing. Yeah, in the fallen state. I don't know.

I'm still looking at it. Yeah, in the fallen state. Yeah, yeah, right. Right. Now, you said the devil is annihilated. The devil who deceived him was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are also, and they'll be tormented day and night forever and ever.

How does that end? Well, you've got to look at that verse carefully, I think. Yeah. I have been studying that one, because that's the big one, right? That seems to say what you're saying.

Yeah. But the no-rest day, I guess the no-rest is like, I forget the tense of that word there, but I'm still looking at it too, but it seems to be indicating present continuum or whatever as far as the no-rest. So it seems to be contemporary leading up to the, I'm not good with the language here, it's just, it doesn't necessarily apply to the future, is what I recall from looking at this. Yeah, the word tormented there is the future passive. They will, it will be done to them.

They will be tormented, which means the torments occurring upon them, they're not doing it themselves, they're receiving this punishment. Okay? Well, I just thought of something else, though, too. Tell me what you think of this. Doesn't it say, though, also right around there about there's no more need for a sun because there's no more night?

So if it's ongoing, continual day and night, there is no day and night into the future because there is no more night. I guess you can't trust that. I mean, that's a dumb argument.

Yeah, it is a dumb argument. Yeah, sorry, I was going to use that first. Well, because it's symbolism, though. Okay, so I guess that the devil is thrown into the lake of fire, that's symbolism. And where the beast is, that's symbolism. The false prophet, that's symbolism. Tormented symbolism. The symbolism is the tormented day and night because that kind of language is used in the Old Testament with the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, or let's say... Just so you know. It also says the lake of fire is the second death.

Sorry, go ahead. What is the second death? But the separation from God and eternal sense. See, the thing is, you've got to understand something. Your view is soul sleep, right? Right. Your view is soul sleep. I guess, yeah.

I could call it that, but yeah, I do. That when a person, a human being dies, just to review, does his soul cease to exist or does it continue to exist in unconsciousness? It doesn't. Well, I would say it doesn't exist because the spirit has departed from the body, and so that makes... Okay, then it doesn't exist. ...which is necessary for a soul. If it doesn't exist, then you are a flaming heretic, okay?

Let me explain how. Well, it depends on what you mean by exist. Is it in the mind of God?

I would say yes, because he resurrects us, right? So, I mean, it doesn't exist in the conscious form of daily living. It's not.

I don't know what it means to be alive without your nervous system. Hold on, hold on. Stop, stop, stop. Sorry, go ahead. You said doesn't exist. He has no existence. Okay?

That would mean... Okay, it exists. It exists. I would rather say exists, then.

I guess if you mean it in like a technical sense. I just don't think it's conscious. It's not alive. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Okay.

You can't jump off in different directions real fast, okay? So it's either the case that you believe the human soul continues to exist or not continue to exist. So which is it? I think it continues to exist. What?

I'm sorry, what? Continues. It does exist, yes, it exists. Okay, is it conscious or not conscious? Not conscious. Okay, so if it's not conscious, does it expend any energy?

No. Then if there's no energy expenditure, then it's not alive. That's non-existence. Right, it's dead. Yeah.

Yeah, right, right, right. So you've got to think. Think these things through and before we get to the break here, you need to think about something because what you're saying will deny the atonement.

Well, I don't want to do that. You're saying that Jesus' human nature, when he died, the physical nature ceased to be, ceased to have existence. That denies the incarnation. It denies the hypostatic union. It denies the resurrection. It's damnable heresy.

So you're not professing this, you just don't know that's what it leads to. So hold on, we've got a break and we'll talk about this after the break, okay? All right. Okay. Folks, we'll be right back after these messages.

Stay tuned, it'll get interesting. Welcome back to the show, okay, let's see what the last segment, let's finish up here with Jamie. Jamie, are you still there? Yes, sir. All right. Now, you need to listen to what I'm saying because this is very, very important because there are people, well-known individuals who are teaching that Jesus' soul ceased to exist.

Yeah. This is damnable. What it means is it's a doctrine that any decent church would kick you out of and say you're not part of the community of Christ if they were to teach it. It would be like saying Jesus is not God, you cannot call yourself a Christian, you must leave.

You stay here and learn, but you're outside the camp of Christ. Someone who would say the Trinity is not true, outside the camp of Christ. Well, we believe the Trinity is true, but I get what you're saying, I think.

Okay, come on. If Jesus- Then the implication is that it would be true. Jesus has two distinct natures, divine and human. This is called the hypostatic union. Hypostatic union. The attributes of both natures were ascribed to the single person.

That's called the communicatio idiomatum. Jesus, by definition, has two natures, and they are both real, and they're both actual, and they're both alive. For any- You're both fully him, right? No. I affirm that.

No. I affirm that he is 100% God and 100% man. Two natures, the hypostatic union.

Go to Carmen, look it up. If soul sleep is true, well, if soul sleep is true, then the human nature goes into non-functioning. No attribution, no consciousness, no doing anything. This would then invalidate the mediatorship of Christ, because you have to be a high priest. As a human being, you have to be a high priest, and that would be- So you're saying his human nature died, or his godly nature died, because God can't die, right? This came up last night with my good friend Smokey that called you a couple days ago, and he was saying I'm a heretic because I'm saying that his godly side died, or the divine side died. It sounds like you're saying the other side died.

Okay, okay. So I'm a little confused there. You are very confused.

Did I miss something? You are very confused. You are so messed up, okay?

You don't even know what's going on, apparently, okay? The divine nature cannot die. Only the human nature can die.

Okay, so you are saying the same thing. If anybody says a divine nature died, they are teaching false doctrine. If they teach that the human nature ceased to exist, they're also teaching false doctrine, because it would mean that the hypostatic union is no longer in effect. That means the person of Christ, Jesus, who by definition has two natures, no longer has two natures, therefore he's no longer Jesus. Right, it's in one man, right? One God-man.

Right, one person, one person, one person. Absolutely, I absolutely affirm that, of course, because I think I am monistic in the sense of the nature of persons. Okay, don't use monism in this context. Okay, so you've got to slow down, you've got to focus.

You need to go to karm, you need to read the section on karm on the hypostatic union, the communicato idiomatum, and you need to go to the annihilationism section and read up on soul sleep, and it's many problems. And, see, this is what I want to debate Chris Date on and Glenn Peebles. I'd be glad to debate them on this issue of the human nature of Christ dying and ceasing to exist, and I'll call them to their face and say, you're heretics. Because they are. Well, I think there needs to be more work on this, obviously. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Listen, it's not more work on it. They're heretics, and anybody who teaches that human nature ceased to exist is heretical and is destroying the hypostatic union and invalidating its own exact position. Well, no one thinks the divine nature doesn't exist.

I mean, we know that Christ is part of the family, right? Look, look, look, look, look, look, look. I'm just trying to clarify here. You're not listening. You're not. You're not. You're not. I say something, and you jump off in a different direction constantly.

You don't focus. Well, I'm not trying to. I'm just trying to clarify. I have thought about this. Some, you know. I mean, I'm concerned about it if I take to heart what people say. What I want you to do is go to Carmen.

I'm just trying to make sense of it. I want you to go to Carmen, read up on this, okay? Will do. I will.

See, I promise you that. I'll do that. All right. Go ahead.

Certainly give her a call back. All right. I'll talk to you later.

All right. Let's get back on the air with Mark from Florida. Mark, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt.

It's your neighbor from afar. How you doing? I'm doing okay. I'm the guy that. Yeah, I'm a gentleman.

I called you once before. I had some issues at my job where they were asking us to do surveys that were non-anonymous, asking us to go in and answer questions if we had COVID. But we take the vaccine, and I actually refuse to go ahead and answer those questions. Good for you. It's actually progressed since that time, and they've actually came out and said that in order for us to take off our masks, we have to get to a 65 percentage of the population of the workplace vaccine.

And immediately, it didn't make any sense to me, because now they're still requiring people that are vaccinated to wear their masks. It's stupid. And it's very.

Thank you. Yeah, it's just stupidity. And it is. It is.

It's illogical. And I decided to go ahead and do something. And I was kind of the ringleader on this, and a lot of people fall behind.

But I decided to take my mask off and refuse to wear it, and just quietly do my job. And I did that after they went ahead and started bribing people in a way. They sent out an email saying, well, we'll give you $100 if you are vaccinated.

You come and show us. Yeah, I'm serious. I've saved the emails.

Every single transmission on this, I've been saving and keeping record in case I need to do something. Yeah, $100, and then you bring in your little certificate from the CDC that says you've been vaccinated and given the vaccination. And that's when I said, enough is enough. I'm going to take my mask off now, preemptively, before they say something like, well, now that we've reached 65% vaccinated, the vaccinated people can take their masks off.

Everybody else can't until they're vaccinated. And I'm like, no, I'm going to do this now before something like that might happen. Don't know if it will, but I've been preemptive in that, and I kind of led the charge, and a lot of people have watched me do it, and they've followed suit. And my question, Matt, is, is this the Christian thing to do?

Because I know there's scripture on being subject to authority, and it isn't really my way to go and be very defiant at my workplace. It's really not me. I'm very cooperative, and I get along with people, and I work as hard as I can.

What's your take on what I did? This is a tough one. I know it's a difficult question, yeah. Because if you're going to be a doctor and a nurse, it's a good idea to wear a mask in an emergency room situation. So when I worked in an emergency room before, I didn't wear a mask, but if they wanted me to do that now, I go, yeah, I could see that. Okay.

I could see that. Right. But depending on your job, if it's just, you know, you're just pushing a pencil or whatever, go to wear a mask.

It depends on what's going on, because we are obligated... I'm not in the medical field. I know. But I'm saying...

I'm not in the medical field at all. Okay. I'm saying that we are obligated to follow our employer's requirements until they violate scripture. Nothing in scripture says you can or can't wear a mask. What we're talking about here is control. And we have the right of freedom and freedom of control of our own bodies. Now, that's biblical, but what they're trying to do is control us. And I call them control markers. Cults have control markers. You can go to a Mormon... Let's go step in a Mormon church, for example, and you'll see the control markers walking around. You know, they had to have a certain kind of a look, a certain attitude, have a certain style, a certain way you can be and speak.

And a certain kind of dress. These are control markers. You know, the group is following what the control people want. This is what it is. The Corona cult? Is this the Corona cult? What it is... I'll tell you what I think it is. I think it's a Marxist socialist agenda put upon America in order to control people, to get them to submit and shut down the businesses so that we can be weakened and then use the woke culture, ideology, stupidity-ology, I call it, with the zombocrats who want to get control of this country and turn it into a socialist paradise, which is going to destroy this country. I agree with that, and that's kind of the reason why I'm kind of being defiant against it.

And it has nothing to do with the safety anymore because I've had it and I'm fine. And believe it or not, when we were following mandates, in a matter of three weeks, we had eight people get Corona while following the mask mandates and everything. And now the state of Florida, the governors lifted it and I'm just like, well, what's the difference then if we're so suspectible to getting it?

Well, here's the larger thing is, are we being controlled and manipulated? And then that this is the issue. And I think it's wise to wear masks in certain times and not at other times. So it's just, it's an issue. I think it should be everybody's freedom of choice. I mean, to a point, you know, they should leave it. Because what if, you know, if you want to wear it, fine.

No, no, no. Listen, what if you have a bad communicable disease? Would you wear a mask in your own house? If someone came over and you'd say, look, I'm going to wear this guy, I don't want you to get sick.

Yeah, that's fine. But it's your choice. See, what they're doing in work, at work, they're forcing, they want to force people.

And then they're trying to get this passport, a vaccination passport. It's control. It is control.

The reason I'm so sensitive to this is I've studied cults for so long. They are all, they have control. And the thing is, people don't know they're being controlled.

It happens all the time. You know, I call them control markers. And so they manifest in different ways. And you know, I can see it right away. Okay. Wearing a mask, you don't know what this pandemic is.

You don't know how bad it is. I can see that. But after a while, it's like, wait a minute, the evidence isn't supporting this anymore. Or you guys who lied about it are now being exposed that you lied about it, et cetera. And it did come from Wuhan. And there are some articles out there that says that China may have released it on purpose in order to help destroy other countries so they can get dominance.

I don't know if that's true or not, but I wouldn't be surprised. I don't trust the communists. The communists, I don't trust them. So I don't either. I don't trust them.

And I, go ahead. I I've, I've, yeah, just real quick, I've, uh, people have asked me at my work, I've said, I said, look, you know, I, I do this for the greater good of the God's church. Um, because ultimately that's, what's the being attacked here in the end. Am I wrong for saying that?

No, you're not. Cause you got to think in a spiritual term, if they can control you, if the government can control you and take away your guns and they can control you, then they will control what church you go to and what is said in church as if they allow them to exist. This is how governments that are oppressive work.

That's what happens in socialist countries and communist countries. We have church sanctioned, um, church, I mean, state, uh, sanctioned churches. Okay. I feel like I'm doing this to be a guardian for the gospel. That's, that's really what I'm getting at because like, you know, this is, this is way ahead on the battle, um, that I'm dealing with it.

It's tough too, because there's a lot of liberal wackos at my work that are really coming down hard on me, ratting me out, uh, their true colors are coming out. We just say, we got to go, we got to go here and say, do you believe in abortion? Yes. Why? Because it's a woman's right to choose what to do with her own body. Yes.

I choose what to do with my own body. Leave me alone. Same thing. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Let me know what happens. All right, buddy. I will. Okay. Okay.

Hey, uh, Herb from Raleigh. Call back tomorrow. Okay.

We'll talk about you on free 13 folks. There you go. That's right. Rebellion Saturday.

Yeah. Cause I believe God's word. Hey, I hope you have a great weekend, a great weekend, a great evening. We'll talk to you tomorrow by God's grace, see you. Bye-bye.