A previously recorded Matt Slick show. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live. Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey, welcome everyone. It's me, Matt Slick.
And you're listening to Matt Slick live. Well, why don't you give me a call? We have five open lines, 877-207-2276.
The last four digits spell C-A-R-M on your phone or wherever you dial from. And we've got nobody waiting right now. Let's see. So just a reminder on the Israel trip, if you want to check it out, just go to karmisrael.com, all one word, and there's some information there. We ask that you'd fill out the form. That just gives us an idea of how many people are going to go. And as far as the medical requirements, I'm not exactly sure what the requirement is for inoculations and things like that.
If I remember, you don't have to be inoculated. But I don't know. I don't know what the status will be in a year. I don't know what's going to be happening. So it might be an issue, might not be an issue. I don't know.
We'll just have to see. And if you want to give me a call about that, let me know. Or you can email Eric at info at karm.org. You can email us, and that'll help a great deal right there. If you have any questions, we can make sure they get answered.
All right, five open lines, 877-207-2276. So I want to let you know that we have schools. If you want to learn your theology, and I really recommend that you do, because a lot of times people think that theology, a lot of Christians don't think it's necessary to learn, like all I need to know is Jesus, and that's it. Well, let me tell you that the people I've taught over the years, I've taught Bible studies, and I teach theology when I do that.
Not this highfalutin, big stuff all the time, and here's a 15-page exam. No, it's just I weave theology into the lesson as a lesson, touch a particular topic. And over the months, over the years that I've been doing this, people I've taught have repeatedly said that they didn't know how interrelated this stuff was, and how important it was, and how it affects their understanding of Scripture, prayer even. And they've all said the same thing, in that they are glad that they've learned more, and it's always been a benefit. They said they've learned things that they didn't know that they would learn, and experienced things. And I've also stated that, unfortunately, one of the side effects is that when you listen to your pastor's sermons, you become a little bit more critical. It's not that I teach being critical, and I teach to the contrary, actually, but I warn people that when they start studying theology a little bit, nothing big, but just the basics, that they start understanding more of what this text is saying that a preacher will be preaching out of, and they start looking, hey, wait a minute, I want this and that. And they've told me repeatedly that it's had a pretty strong effect on how they hear sermons and read the word. And they say it's a good way.
It's a good thing. I say to people, don't be critical. God uses different people at different levels, and we need to be very gracious and pay attention to sermons and stuff like that. But learning your theology is very important, and I would recommend that you go to the website karm.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. There's a lot of information there.
I've been writing articles there for 25 years, and I've probably written, I don't even know how many, 5,500 articles maybe. We've got a lot there. And so we also have, or I also wrote some schools, a school of theology, a school of apologetics, and a school of critical thinking. And the school of apologetics and critical thinking are good, but the theology school is really where you need to be.
You need to study theology because only then can you understand the other issues. And so I've arranged some of the lessons and written a little bit of new material, and you can go check out the schools. They're for $33 each. You can go there and just go to karm.org forward slash schools, and you can check out all the stuff you want. And we always say this. I like to tell people that if you can't afford the schools but you want the schools, then all you've got to do is, oh, look at that. There we go. All you've got to do is just email us and say you want the schools but you can't afford them, and then we'll give them to you.
Okay, we'll give them to you for free. So that's what we do, and there you go. All right, so why don't we just jump on the phone. Let's get to Glen from Texas. Glen, welcome here on the air. Hey, brother.
How you doing? I was hoping it'd be you. I mean, I was thinking about you today.
What's that? Oh, were you? Gotcha.
That's all. I was thinking about you a lot too. Well, I hope it's in a good way. Yeah, yes, it is. Before you ask a question, let me just say, hey, folks, this guy here, I've known this guy for years and years and years, super smart guy, loves the Lord. He's got quite a history of stuff, and he has kept Karm running over the years so many different ways and times, and you can thank him for one of the reasons Karm is still around. So anyway, just giving you the thumbs up. Kudos, buddy.
Thank you, Matt. So my question is, and I've had some different thoughts about this, but I wanted to hear yours. The gift of tongues, specifically, can a person who speaks tongues in scripture, according to scripture, also translate them? And at the same time, let's say if they were doing the edification for the church, for example, if they were to do it, can the same person who's speaking it then also translate it to the church right after they say it?
The Bible doesn't say. It says someone has a gift of tongues, let another interpret. That seems to be what's going on, but there's nothing in the Bible that I'm aware of that says the same person who does it can't also interpret it. So this is what it does say.
Actually, I just looked. One who prophesies greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in a tongue unless he interprets. So it looks like that's the verse right there, 1 Corinthians 14.5, it says that the one who speaks in tongues can interpret. How about that?
So I just learned something every day. So the church may receive edifying. Yeah, that's how I read it as well. But as you know, I moved to Texas and funding a church down here that's even open has been difficult. So I've been attending a assembly of God, and you know how some of our brothers are. They say, I can't believe you're going to a heresy. And then from there, and I was like, well, I can't believe your church isn't even open. Don't you believe in the sovereignty of God?
Just choking back with them, right? But yeah, so anyway, but I was challenged with that. And the way that I read it was exactly that, that somebody can translate at the same time, but it was just one of those.
So I think it might as well hit a Trump's brother and ask what your opinion is. Yeah, it's what it says. Yeah, so actually, yeah, that's what it says, 1 Corinthians 14.5. He speaks in tongues unless he interprets. So it looks like he interprets a tongue. The thing I want to know is, is it an angelic language? Is it a tongue that's a normal human language that this person doesn't know? Or is it a language he does know, and then he interprets it? So I don't know. Yeah, I mean, my experience, at least from what I'm seeing is, it's not a known tongue that I know of.
Let me say it that way. So to many, they may believe it will be gibberish, or who knows what. But yeah, so it's, you know, just welcome to the, how old halls we walk where some people think they, you know, they were trying to admonish me for going there. Of course, since they also believe you can lose your salvation and I don't, it's an interesting, you know, it definitely is an interesting place for me to land. But I think you're in the same boat, aren't you, where you go to church? Yeah, let's just say I'm looking and my wife and I are looking because we want to find a church I can get used at. And unfortunately, the Reformed churches are a little bit, let's just say, traditional, which drives me crazy. And then the non-traditional churches aren't Reformed, so I'm stuck in the middle. And then I just can't get used because they don't want me to teach predestination because that, well, we can't do that.
Well, that's what the Bible teaches, but you know, you know how churches are. Oh yeah, I get it. You know, I'm there with you, but I also know that since my family's in Ohio, we're still trying to find a place to buy down here. It looks like we're going to end up building a home. But, you know, with all that, I need to be accountable.
I didn't have a church, you know, for me, I can't be out doing street preaching and of course not having a head over me. So, I have to be accountable for somebody. Well, since we've known each other so long, you can be accountable to me, just pay me, you know, weekly. And that'll work because, you know, no problem.
And they don't, hey, I'm just looking out for you. There's got to be a slick-ism for that. You know, you know I'm right. Yeah, there's got to be added to my slick-tionary. Yeah. Oh, that's what it was. I was looking for that the other day too.
But I couldn't find it on the new site. So, it's the slick-tionary. It's the slick-tionary, right?
Slick dictionary, slick-tionary on Karm and a bunch of stupid words that I've made up and use. Oh, yeah. All right. Well, thanks a lot for your time, brother. I'll let you get one. All right, man.
We've got to catch up. All right, buddy. Yep, for sure. Take care. God bless. Okay. Glenn, no lie, folks. That guy's IQ is 189. Seriously.
It's like, what? Yeah, he's a great guy. All right. We're going to give him a call. We have one open line.
877-207-2276. Jonathan from California. Jonathan, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, thank you for having me. Sure.
Appreciate you having me. Over the years, I've used Karm probably for, gosh, half my life. I'm 34 now. When I was an early Christian, I used Karm when Mormon's Jehovah Witnesses would come to my door, and I would print off pages from your website. I've got a giant red binder that I went through and highlighted everything. I still have it today.
It's one of my favorite possessions. Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, I love it.
Thank you so much for the work you do. Yeah. Praise God. Praise God. I just love doing it. That's what it's for.
Exactly what it's for. So good for you, man. Praise God. Well, apologetics was a major contributing factor for me, but that is not my question today. I'm part of a mentoring and discipling group with other pastors as well. I'm a youth pastor in Sacramento, California. I've been involved in ministry for eight years, and getting my doctorate, just started my doctorate through Talbot and Spiritual Formation.
And I've been reading a lot of books on Andrew Murray, Brother Lawrence, Frank LeBlanc, guys who are kind of qualified as Christian mystics. And I know that word is kind of a taboo word, but guys that are really interested in the idea of the abiding presence of Christ, specifically more from, like, John 15. And I guess my question is, as I've been thinking about it, one of the topics that I'm thinking about writing a dissertation on, and it's just my first two weeks going to Talbot, is it possible to have a fullness of abiding presence of Christ? Or is that something we have to wait for in the next life? We have to define our terms first. Yeah. So what does it mean to have an abiding presence of Christ?
Because He's always in us, never will leave us. So in that sense, we already have it. So what do they mean? Do you mean that extra oomph?
Sure. Yeah, I would, you know, in John 15, the abiding in the vine, that we become one, I guess. It's the, what is the abiding presence?
I guess I would just qualify that with John, John 15, the love of, the love of Christ and the manifestation, I guess, the manifestation of Jesus, come to the fullness in an individual's life. They recognize that. Well, I tell you what, we've got a break coming up.
You remind me of some anecdotes I've read about from some of the Presbyterian divines that might clarify or exemplify what that is. So hold on after the break. We'll talk a little bit. Okay. All right. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages.
We have one open line, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back to the show everyone. Jonathan, are you still there? I am.
Okay. So there's this book called Scott's Worthies and it's written, the original one, written in the early 1800s, or was it early, late 1800s, in a reprint. And then they had another version of it. And let's just say that some of the things were kind of removed a little bit. That's what I understand.
So I have a copy of the original and a reprint of it. And it's about the Presbyterian divines. You know how Presbyterians are. They walk around really stiff and they point fingers and look down their long noses at you, you know, basic Presbyterian stuff. That's the image anyway.
Well, apparently some of these, I have them documented on another website, which is now down, but I got to get it back up and running. If you want to talk about abiding in Christ, some of these guys, apparently the stories go that, like one of them said that he was going to go down into the garden and spend time with the Lord. And witnesses said that when he was in the garden, there was a second figure there with him.
And this happened regularly. There were stories of a priest who ended up staying at a man's house, one of these Presbyterian divines' house. And he got up in the middle of the night and left. And someone stopped us behind the road and said, why did you leave? I said, the priest said, I was at so-and-so's house.
I had to leave. He's talking to demons because he heard voices coming out of the man's room and another voice. He could hear both, the man and something else and someone else. And the guy said, no, no, no. He's not talking to demons. He's talking to the Lord.
Go back and listen. And he did. And the priest got converted. So there are stories like this. One man said he made an arrangement with his wife to pray for Scotland. And he prayed eight hours a day for two years.
He had to arrange with his wife to do this because he wouldn't be available during the day. And at the end of two years, there was a revival in Scotland. There's all kinds of stuff like this. There's anecdotes. So John Knox, George Wisher, John Fleming, some of these guys, some of them say they audibly heard voice, the voice of God, like in a church, predicting the future and things like this. And it came to pass. These are from the Calvinists, Presbyterian divines.
Look, Scott's worthies. And that's the only thing you can think of that means that in what you're talking about, that level of intimacy. Is it true?
I don't know, but this is what was recorded. Yeah. Do you think it's possible for the common Christian to have such an intimacy with Christ that the two become one in a sense? Well, I don't know what that means, the two become one. Hold on. Yeah.
I don't mean in a sense that we become Christ, but in a sense that the union between the two as creator and creation is, yeah, what does that mean? Abide. I was waiting for you to mess up. I didn't want you to mess up, but the creator creature distinction must always be maintained. Always.
Absolutely. And so there's a sense in which God can give us more than what we normally abide in. I had that extreme privilege of that occurrence of my conversion where there was an incredible presence. And I don't mean, ooh, I felt something and made me cry a little. No, no, no.
On the ground sobbing in the presence of a permeating holiness washing into my very being and reducing me to just nothing. And I remember it. Okay. So God did that. Can God do that with people? Yes. Can he reveal himself to various people? I don't see why not. I don't see things scripture that negates it.
Is it normative? I wouldn't say so, but I think it can happen if we are to seek him. Yeah.
Let me get, I guess here's an example. One of my mentors, pastor, 25 years, or 35 years in youth ministry, it's not the actions that he takes here, but this guy wakes up at like three in the morning every day to go into his den to light the candle and as a representation of the Holy Spirit. And he spends, you know, the Lord wakes him up, thank you, Lord, first thought in the morning, goes to his den, he reads the word, he plays some worship music on the guitar. And all throughout the day, he's trying to have more conscious awareness of the presence of Christ.
And, you know, every time, Lord, great goodness, would you make known to me and take from me every kind and form a degree of pride. I mean, this guy's relationship with Jesus is off the charts. He's the guy that I see, you know, having a wonderful relationship with Christ. And when I look around, I look at the average Christian in my church and my youth group or whatever, and I go, man, nobody seems to get that. So I guess my question is, like, is it possible for somebody to have that kind of union with Christ where there is a, I don't know, perfection is the wrong word, but a unity with Christ that is darn near perfect on this life.
I wouldn't say perfect because all these terms need defining, but I'd say far, far more close in that heat because God desires that fellowship with us. I think it's possible. I think some people are gifted like your youth pastor friend. I'm not. I can't do that because my mind, I'm out surfing within three minutes of praying, you know, like, oh, get back on track. And because my mind is so, that's just the way it is.
I'm autistic. So some people can do that. Some people can't. But man, man, that would be awesome. I heard a preacher once say that he wants to be so close to Jesus that when he dies, that he doesn't notice much of a difference. Wow.
Yeah. And that'd be nice. Now there's this book, um, letters of a modern mystic of a guy named, his name was Frank LeBocque and he was the missionary in the Philippines. And he said, Lord, I don't care. I'm going to think about you every minute of every day.
And I don't care how long it's going to take. I'm just going to, if I die, I'm going to die in the process. It's a wonderful book or brother Lawrence wrote a book called practicing the presence of God. And this guy would like peeled potatoes and he hated potatoes, but he turned it into this spiritual discipline where he grew in his love for Jesus.
Peeling potatoes in the monastery. I want that, but I don't have that yet, but I want that. Then you pray to God and ask him to give it to you because anything that's good, it comes from God and our flesh.
Uh, we don't need any help with our flesh cause it's pretty bad, but any good thing that comes from him, uh, you know, is a gift from him. So I would just pray and ask for that. That's what I would do. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate that.
That's helpful. All right, ma'am. Well, God bless.
God bless you. Thanks. All right. Talk to you later. Bye. Okay.
All right. Let's get on the phone with Seth from California. Seth, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt.
Thanks for taking my call. So interesting question for you. Uh, reading the scriptures recently, I was going through Exodus and I was going through the portion where Moses was interfacing with Pharaoh and, um, he had raised up the plague of, or he had Aramis at the plague of the frogs. And then, uh, it said that the Pharaoh had had his magicians, uh, pretty much replicate that, I guess that sign. Um, it got to me thinking like, okay, well, I do remember in Samuel, there was discussions of Saul sending out mediums and necromancers and essentially in the Old Testament, right? These leaders would have these, uh, people in these positions that were essentially perhaps using evil, demonic interfacing, these kinds of things, right? So my question for you, do you think this, you know, with nothing new being out of the sun, do you think this kind of thing still happens today with today's world leaders?
And like, do they, do they, uh, use these type of people in these positions and, you know, give an opinion on that? Sure. Okay. We'll do that. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages, please. Welcome back to the show. Seth, are you still there? Yes, I am.
All right. Now, I don't have any, uh, personal knowledge or documentation, uh, as to whether or not leaders, particularly here in America, uh, are in contact with occult, uh, forces or are purposely seeking them for manipulation, um, and power. However, uh, there seems to be some anecdotal evidence out there of such things in some areas. One of the things is the Bohemian Grove.
You can go just do research on it. Well, in the Bible, we do know that there were leaders who were involved with the occult and generally leaders want power in the occult is one of the ways people get deceived into thinking they can get power, have power. Get deceived into thinking they can get power, have power. And so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the leaders, uh, are, are involved in something I'll call it. I wouldn't be surprised. You know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't doubt that some of them try seances and, um, you know, Ouija boards or whatever it might be in their private areas. Um, and there might be even, I don't know if there is, there might be an organization, uh, where they are very covert and do secretive things. I do know that there are organizations like that and in their higher levels they get more, usually get more and more occultic as in, um, uh, you know, the masons and things like that.
And whether you pledge allegiance to the God of masonry and stuff. So, you know, yeah, yeah, for sure. Thanks for that. It's interesting. I know you had a history with, I guess, working in, was it it or computers, something like that. Right.
Right. So my second question for you, maybe is, is one of those anecdotal, um, things you're discussing. I've always heard this. I don't know if it's true or not, but I've always heard that like the people that created the internet, evidently, I've heard that maybe they had done some type of drugs and interfacing with, you know, demonic entities. Is that maybe you've heard of that before or not? No, never have, never have.
Who knows? I mean, things go around, but, uh, I was wondering if that might've been one of those anecdotal things you were, you had in mind. Well, I think, uh, but I've, I've read some books that, that, uh, have documentation within them on things, whether or not documentation's accurate to another issue, you know, there's so much disinformation out there. It's hard to know what the truth is.
So you have to read a lot and see what kind of bubbles to the surface. And that's about all you can do, you know? Sure. Sure. Well, thank you so much. Sure. No problem, ma'am. Okay. God bless. All right.
Let's get over to, uh, John from North Carolina. And, um, huh. Okay.
I'm sorry about that. Are you there? Yeah. Okay. All right.
So what do you got? I appreciate you taking my call, but, uh, I got a question about what is the meaning of asleep in Jesus? What does that exactly mean? It means that we've died and that we're with the Lord. And it's just a phrase. That's all those who fall asleep because death looks like sleep in Christ is a term of federal headship falling asleep in Christ.
It means that the believers who have died are with the Lord and it's called being asleep in Christ, but they're really awakened conscious per, uh, St. Corinthians five eight, uh, Romans, excuse me, St. Corinthians 12, two and things like that. Okay. Yeah.
Well, I want to get some clarification about it because I heard a pastor talking about asleep in Jesus was that when you die, you're just unconscious until the rapture. He's wrong. Okay. He's wrong.
That's why, I mean, I thought it was wrong too, but I mean, I wanted to get more understanding about it, but he is right. His way about it was once you die, then you're unconscious in the grave and then you'll be risen up when the rapture takes place. Yeah. And that's what sleep in Jesus means. Yeah. It's called soul sleep. And, uh, he's, he's wrong.
Uh, it's slow. Sole sleep is part, uh, part of the, the, uh, kind of a doctrine kind of concomitant with the issue of annihilationism. And I've written 180, one eight zero, 180 articles on annihilationism, and it's on the CARM website. And if you go to the CARM page, I could go to CARM.org forward slash annihilationism. Then you can do a search on that page, hit control F on your computer.
And it'll bring up a little search thing. And you just type in soul sleep or like the word sleep, and it'll find the various articles that deal with that. And you can read up on it. So one of the things I ask about people or ask from people about soul sleep, I did this about a week and a half ago.
I asked somebody who taught it, I said, uh, on online. I said, well, what is soul sleep? Well, it's when you're unconscious.
And I asked difficult questions. I say, well, that means a soul has no activity. Or does it have activity? If it's an, and the person said, well, there's no activity. Well, then that there's no life. If there's no activity.
Well, so what does it mean? There's no activity. Is there any activity?
Well, yeah, there has to be activity. Well, what kind of activity, if there's unconscious, since unconsciousness is with a physical body, but the soul is not physical. So how's the soul unconscious and interactivity with the soul? And I couldn't answer these.
He couldn't, he stumbled. He didn't want to do with these questions because they don't think through these things. They don't think through them. Plus if the human soul ceases to have consciousness, then there's a serious problem. If the human spirit, human soul ceases to have consciousness upon death, then there's no activity and no awareness. There's no, uh, commitment. Excuse me.
How do I say this? There is no awareness, no speech, no thought, no anything according to what they say. Now let's relate that to Jesus. He has two natures, divine and human. So when his human nature died, did his soul go to sleep?
There's no activity. How does that then affect the single person of Christ with two natures? Because the second, the human will is no longer active and no longer involved. So how is that not denying the true nature of the hypostatic union? Since it would only be the divine nature that was active in the interim before his resurrection. If that's the case, then how do we have the communicatio idiomatum, which is the communication of the properties, that the attributes of both natures are ascribed to the single person. And it wouldn't be necessarily true that the attributes of humanity is consciousness, aliveness, thinking, thought, awareness, fellowship, rationalization, all these things. And yet they would have to be denied in that view. So annihilationism, um, is bad.
It's weak. And I've, like I said, I've written a great deal on it and the annihilationists need to get off their high horse, take the idol and put it in the trash and believe the truth about God's word. Okay. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it. You're welcome. All right, man. God bless. All right, let's get to John from Raleigh, North Carolina.
We lost and we had three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Lowe from Virginia. Hello. Welcome. You're on the air. Yes. Hi. How are you doing? All right.
How are you? Yeah. All right.
I have two questions for you. And, um, one of them is, um, I took my son to visit my mom who fell asleep in death. And I normally just go there to put some flowers on the grave versus making them a plane. And I never took him before, but I took him and he's five and my two year old. And as we drive by while we're leaving, he was telling the two year old, do not be afraid. The zombies are good zombies. Is that some wicked things that I, or is that just his imagination? It's his imagination.
It's pretty awesome. But he's five, but he, it was scary because as we driving, he was saying, look at the zombie, cute zombie. Don't be afraid. And I'm like, should I be scared? No, you just laugh because he's heard a zombie someplace and just kind of chuckle with them and just, uh, you know, just say, no, there's no such thing as zombies. Cause I didn't take him back ever since then. I'm just getting myself in trouble.
I should say, unless you're a leftist wacko, socialist, leftist wacko, then you're a zombie because zombies, we know zombies don't have frontal lobe function. So we don't put that stuff into our, in our homes. So I'm just like, where did he hear it from? Cause we don't watch, you know, he's got kids, he's got friends. That's all, it's not a big deal. I mean, I think it's funny, you know, I'm laughing because, you know, I love kids.
The kids are awesome. And, uh, you know, if I haven't dragged along, in fact, cause you know, you have to drive really slow when you're going to a grave site, cause it's narrow. And to hear him saying that in the back, like looking from your left and your right, like what is he seeing?
And I'm thinking if you can't see things we don't see, yeah, that's right. I don't know. I'm sorry, but no, you're good. I will. I can laugh now cause I thought it was like, this is creepy.
He will never go again. Um, it's funny though. Yeah. What did, um, Jesus mean when he said, um, let the dead bury the dead and that's in Luke verse nine, 60 I think.
Yeah. It was about the guy who said, uh, you know, cause Jesus says, you need to leave everything and come follow me. And he says, well, I'll go bury my father. And he said, let the dead bury the dead. And, uh, when he says I need to go bury my father, it was, he was not saying that my father just died.
They got to go bury him. It was an expression at that time that I need to be with my family, take care of my family. And when my father has passed on, then I don't have any earthly obligations here.
I can follow you. And Jesus says, let the dead bury the dead. You worry, you follow me. They'll take care of themselves.
And that's what he was talking about. You want to hold because God's here. Okay. Okay. We right back after the break. Hey folks, we have three open lines.
8 7 7 2 0 7 2 2 7 6. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 8 7 7 2 0 7 2 2 7 6.
Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back, everybody. We have three open lines.
8 7 7 2 0 7 2 2 7 6. So, Lo, are you still there? Yes, I am. Okay. So, uh, I hope that answered the question sufficiently. Just, it was a phrase, just a phrase of the time. Oh, okay.
All right. And I heard you guys saying something about, I thought when you, when, when, when they talk about the dead knows nothing that they actually dead until the resurrection of Jesus. And you were saying something about sleep something. Yeah, soul sleep. It's a false teaching.
Soul sleep. Yeah, that's right. And the dead know nothing. What I understand that's from Ecclesiastes, I believe it is. And Ecclesiastes is a book written from the perspective of all things under the sun. You know, and you read the first few verses and it says, you know, from under the sun, from the human perspective, looking around, that's what you see, the dead know nothing. And, uh, that's it. But the new Testament, uh, clearly tells us that, uh, you know, in first Corinthians 12, two, let me show you, you know, just read it.
Okay. Uh, it says, I know a man in Christ 14 years ago, whether in the body, I do not know, or out of the body, I do not know. God knows such a man was caught up into the third heaven. And I know how such a man, whether in the body or apartment body, do not know God knows was caught up into paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak. So the idea of being outside of the body and being alive and conscious is right there.
But the soul sleep people say that when your soul separates from your body, you're unconscious, but that's contradicted by 12 through four. I mean, to me, this is like, duh, what are you going to do now? And then, you know, what they'll do is they'll say, well, that was an exception, you know, grow up, you know, it just gets me. So, you know, I think I'm going to have to do a video where I'm going to just say, watch this video and do an instructional video. No, no, no, it's something different.
An instructional video on how to slap yourself upside the head and say, here, you know, because, uh, you know, people, you know, I just want to say, you know, just slap yourself because it's dumb. It's just so much. And they work so hard. And the annihilationists work so hard to get that view going. It is the view you have to have.
What about Jesus and him crucified and get the gospel out there, put the energy into that, because what they're doing only causes division in the body of Christ. Yeah. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. You're welcome so much. All right. God bless. Bye.
All right. Four open lines, 877-207-2276. You can give me a call if you want, you know, I'm just sitting right here.
Andrea from Raleigh, North Carolina. Welcome. You're on the air. Hi. Hi.
Yes. Hi. Hi. I'm glad you took my call. I'm glad to be able to talk to you. I listen to you a lot. And, um, you're a smart woman. Quite entertaining.
Yeah. And this is like, you know, uh, I, I know, uh, that, you know, you are very similar to my husband, which you poor woman. He grabs, um, you know, that's very, that's a very, I'm not going to get into that. Well, that must mean he's annoying because my wife, she rubs her forehead around me all the time and has this kind of a dead look at me. I'll say something, you know, and I'll go, what? And she's just staring at me. Like she couldn't believe I just said something.
No, I get it all the time. My wife's not impressed. You know what? What? God said to you what?
With who you need. And then me and my husband got together and me basically, uh, but had like really bad. Did you call him a butt head or did you butt heads? Nothing. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. It was really horrible.
It really was. But that's like another story. But I know that God, uh, he deals with everybody differently in that aspect of what, in just in regards to what you said.
Uh, like, like if I find myself frustrated with like my husband, if he's doing something and he's totally out of line. And, um, I learned to just be like, you know what? That is yours.
It's child. That's, that's the right attitude. And then go make them a sandwich.
Yeah. I don't know if somebody needs to hear that, but like literally God, like when I let go and I, I tell boundaries of self respect and I'm like, you know what? No, you're not going to be like that. Um, you know, I need my space, you know, until you were acting correctly or when a break, then you can come and talk to me. But you know, right now, God, you know, like, I'll leave it like that.
But, um, I, I actually got in the car and I was bringing my son to, uh, his swim practice and this kind of lays around the same mind. So what I was talking about is that God deals with us every separately because he made us all different, right? He made us all uniquely.
So he's going to have to deal with us differently. And so what I heard him saying was, I wonder if it was possible to be so close to God, like just talking about certain people that were like really close to God and you know, and I, I wonder if the same thing, cause I read and all the people that were really close to God and I really desired that when I was younger and I was, I was messed up. I was really messed up and I did a lot of things, but I still believed in God and I was like, I was so ashamed that I kept falling and falling and falling. And I'm like, God, I wish this, I could stop this. And so like over the years, me being a different person, like, you know, I hear people, oh, they turn around, they, they immediately are like this one-eighth person, me, it took over years.
Like, uh, he helped me quit cigarettes. Um, you know, a lot of women want to, a lot of women want to fix their men. That's the wrong attitude.
They need to exemplify Christianity. Then the husbands don't have to fight their wives. And then what they do is they get, they get convicted and they start to change internally. That's what you want. But women often want to marry their husbands and fix them. Don't do that.
They're not children. Yeah. But did you have a question?
No, that's another. Um, well I wanted to, I think that, that gentleman, I kind of want to add it on to what he was saying, that it is very possible because I know I prayed that prayer. I was like, God, I really wanted to be close. I wanted to be that person that like I can talk and, and hear like that necessarily has to be audible.
That's cool. And I know that's happened before, but, and God has made that like it, I feel like incredibly close to him. And when he talked about people in the church, it kind of resonated with me where there's certain people that go to church and they pray. And I know Christians myself that are really good people and they really do believe in God and they pray, but I feel like there's not that closeness. There's not that intimacy because right.
I don't know if they're not there yet. Right. There's a verse, verse one nine, God wants us to be in fellowship with his son, Christ Jesus. Yeah.
It is possible. And I, and I just want whoever is him, if he's still listening or whoever's listening that path, seek God out, try not to listen too much to other sources. Just get in the Bible, ask for guidance and understanding and he will make it happen.
And it will be in his timing. And, um, but one thing that I do have a question if we have time, I was listening to something about, um, I forgot what it was being mentioned, but it made me think about, this is my, I wanted to know what your thoughts are is about, um, being like space and time and regards to heaven and like the spirit and God. I see God as, wait, let me ask you, what's your, what, what's your question though? Um, like, what do you consider like when somebody dies and like they're no longer in time, like God's out.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on. We don't know what that means to say God's outside of time. And, and, uh, we don't know what that is. I tell people not to say that because we don't know what that is. If we don't know what it is, we can't say that's what God is. And to say we're in or out of time when we die, we don't know about that either. So I just tell people, we just don't know about that.
It's just not good to make a statement and then build a case on a statement like that. Well, there's like in the, in Genesis, it talks about there, he created the sun and the moon and he created the morning and the night. Like he created this linear, like he created this way for us to keep track.
Yeah, I understand that. I mean, I'm just saying we don't know what it means when we say God's outside of time. We don't know what that is.
We don't even know if it's true. We just don't know. Yeah. So we shouldn't say that because it's undefinable. What does it mean to be outside of time?
Yeah. Nobody can define it. Nobody can tell us. So if we don't know, we shouldn't say it. That's all I'm saying.
It's just an issue of logic. Okay. So, um, but we've been at a caller, we had a caller waiting, so I'm going to kind of get going. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. All right.
So I hope you keep listening. Thank you so much. Okay.
I definitely, I want to email the question of what I want to, I want to find out your, if you want it. So, all right. Thank you so much. Call back tomorrow. Okay. Sounds good. All right. Okay. Okay. All right. Let's get to Marty from Virginia. Marty, welcome. You're the last caller. So what do you got buddy?
Hey man, how you doing? Listen, I have a question. Uh, are there any verses, uh, in the new Testament that are either, either for or against capital punishment? Uh, it looks like Romans 13 is for, uh, capital punishment and nothing in the Bible says, uh, that speaks against, against it. But it says that the state bears the sword and the sword was one of the means of execution.
So that's, that seems to be the case. Okay. So you can go to Romans 13 about that.
And I appreciate that quick answer. Do you have any thoughts or feelings? I know you go with the Bible, but any thoughts on it? Uh, my, if the Bible teaches it, then I agree.
That's it. It's, I have no problem with capital punishment under the right circumstances. If it's undoubted, it's undoubtedly the case that such a person has committed a crime worthy of that offense. I don't have any problem with it. And I do tend to agree.
I appreciate it, Matt. Oh, okay. That's it. I just, I just did, but I didn't know if there was something in the, the, uh, the new Testament that substantiated.
I didn't know that. Yeah, it's, uh, uh, go to Romans 13, for the government, the governing authorities is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid for it does not bear the sword for nothing. For it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
Now that isn't a severe punishment right there. And with the sword context, it, you know, it's judgment. It didn't say jail and chains. It said the sword.
And that was used in battle and it was an instrument of killing. So, you know, that's it. People may not like it, but that's what the Bible says right there.
Romans 13, four. All right. Well, thank you, sir. All right, man. Well, God bless. All right. Hey, perfect timing folks.
You know what? Tomorrow is Friday. If you want to give me a call, then you got to wait till then and the middle word bless you. Have a great evening. And I just, by God's grace, be back on there tomorrow. We'll talk to you then. Have a great one. God bless.
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