Matt Slick Live

A previously recorded Matt Slick show. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Hey folks, if you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276, same as always, and just letting you know we do stay on the air by your support if you are so inclined and you would, you know, if you like, like the show and you want to, you want to hear it continue, all you got to do, go to karm.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, the right hand side of any page, you will see a little donate thing. We just ask for five, maybe $10 a month if that's okay with you. We don't need a whole bunch. And we're just letting you know that we have lost some funding because of COVID and that just a lot of ministries have. So, if you'd be so kind as to consider prayerfully supporting us, that would be great.

It helps us keep the show on the air as well. So anyway, if you want to give me a call, four open lines, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Derek from Los Angeles. Derek, welcome. You are on the air. Hey Mr. Slick, how are you doing? I'm doing very well by God's grace.

What do you got, man? Awesome, awesome. Quick question. I came across a couple of quote unquote apologists who claim that a man and a woman are considered married the moment that they have relations with one another. That there was no biblical precedent for having to go through some sort of a ceremony or even make a covenant before God that, you know, like an exchanging of the vows that you would be true to one another for your whole life or anything like that. I just would like to get your opinion on that idea that man and woman are considered marrying at the moment of, you know, relation. Yeah, I would say that those people who say that could not exegete their way out of a wet paper bag if they had a compass and a rope and people saying come this way.

That's what I would say. I hope that they somehow hear this and would call me up and challenge me because I would like to biblically, lovingly put them in their place and tell them to repent from such idiocy. Now, if it's the case that a person and a man and woman are married as soon as they have relations, then there could be no fornication.

Right? There could be no fornication because as soon as you do that, you're married and you're no longer fornicating, are you? So that wouldn't make any sense. No, a covenant, marriage is a covenant and it's a three-way covenant. A lot of people don't know that but it's a vertical covenant between the couple and God. It's a horizontal covenant between the couple and people and it's a mutual covenant between the man and the woman. So, for example, when I do weddings, I tell the couple that they are making a commitment to each other. We go through wedding vows and in the wedding vows are the covenantal boundaries and requirements. So, do you promise to be faithful to keep yourself to that person only, to have relations only with that person, to protect and to guide, etc., etc.? Yes. To the exclusion of others.

Yes. And the wedding ring is the symbol of that covenant. And so, my wife and I made a covenant about 34 years ago when we got married and we did it in front of people so that the covenant is now to the people because it excludes them. We are participants in the sense that they know that we are binding ourselves to one another, to the exclusion of others. And then we, of course, are doing it before God. So, a true marriage is a Trinitarian covenantal thing, Trinitarian loose sense in that it's vertical, horizontal and mutual. And between one man and one woman, that's how it's supposed to be.

So, those morons who probably got that out of the book of second colonoscopy don't know what they are doing. They were Hebrew Israelites. Yeah, that makes sense. Hebrew Israelites, if you said the word exegete, they'd say, don't call me that.

No, it'd be like that. So, I just want to tell them, if they want to learn how to exegete the scriptures properly, then I could help them out to learn about this four-letter word called context. That's a bad word for a lot of people. Oh, it's a horrible word. They hear that word, they go, context? Are you cussing me? You know what you're doing?

They're exegetical wackos in the book of colonoscopy. Thank you for your time. I'm just telling you how it is, man.

They don't know what to do. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I learned a lot from you, man.

Thank you so much. Well, praise God, man, because it's a miracle if anybody learns anything from me. It is. It is.

I mean, think about it. I have autism. My last name is Slick. I'm obstreperous, recalcitrant, a little bit obtuse sometimes. And the fact that anybody would learn from me could only be by the grace of God. That's all it could be, because if you knew me personally, trust me, you would not be impressed. None of my friends are. Well, all praises to the Most High.

Thank you so much for your time. Now that's the right response. Praise God, buddy. Now, I got that colonoscopy thing from last night.

It was in Apologetics Live, and Andrew Rappaport, a friend of mine, he does ministry work, too, apologetics stuff. He said that, and I just started cracking up. So I said, I'm stealing it. I'm going to use it.

So for the book of second colonoscopy, I added a second in there. I think it's pretty funny. So people in the chat room are commenting. Sorry, folks. Oh, man. If you want to participate in the idiocy that goes on in the chat rooms, all you got to do is just go to karm.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. On the right-hand side, you'll see the links for the Facebook and for YouTube.

In fact, all you got to do is go to Facebook and just type in karm.org. You can see the show. It's pretty exciting.

I'm sitting here with a headset on in my chair with a plant on one side behind me. Oh, it's pretty good, pretty good. So what you could do, let's just say you're having trouble going to sleep tonight.

What you could do is record the show and stare at it, and you'll be out because it's really not that exciting. Okay, having said all of that and then perseflage, if you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. Since we've got nobody waiting, let me jump on a couple of things and change the mood a little bit. As I like to say, or I should say, as I need to say periodically, you know, the Christian church is moving towards apostasy, and it is. It's unfortunate. We have it with the feel-good-ism worship from Hillsong and the vacuous, empty theological perspectives that they put forward along with the new apostolic affirmation stuff. And we have a lot of pastors and elders in the church who couldn't exegete the scripture properly and teach moralistic sermoning instead of Christ-centered, cross-centered, historical redemptive theological perspectives. I'm going to read a quote to you, and this is from a well-known individual, and we'll talk about this a little bit.

This is what it says. Prayer is talking to God. For Christians, this is a privilege given to us through our relationship with the Father through his son Jesus.

People of other faiths pray in different ways, and God loves to hear our prayers. Now, that may sound pretty good, but let me go over it a little bit here really quickly. This is what it says. I'll tell you who it is in a little bit so that you're not prejudiced about who said it or whatever. Prayer is talking to God.

No problem. That's not all it is, but it's good enough. For Christians, this is a privilege given to us through our relationship with the Father through his son Jesus Christ.

Actually, it's not exactly theologically accurate, but it's pretty good. Here's where the problem comes in. People of other faiths pray in different ways, and God loves to hear our prayers. So the implication here is that people of other faiths, God loves to hear their prayers. Wrong. There are no prayers that God loves to hear from other faiths.

Let me explain something. We are by nature sinners. We are by nature children of wrath, Ephesians 2-3. There's nothing good that comes out of our hearts, Romans 3, 10, 11, and 12. Our hearts are desperately wicked, deceitful. No man can trust it, Jeremiah 17, 9.

We are, at our very essence and our nature, fallen and worthy of eternal damnation. The good news is that Jesus Christ, God in flesh, shed his blood on the cross to redeem us so that we will not face the consequences of our sinfulness against the holy and infinite God. So the only way, dear Christian, that your prayers are heard by God, and when I say hear, I don't mean God knows all things, he hears it because he knows everything.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about hears them and takes them seriously. The only way this can be done is through the blood of Jesus Christ, shed on the cross, that cleanses us of our sin. That's only through the mediatorial work of Christ, the high priest. Only through him that our prayers ascend to the throne of God in heaven and have any merit, have any power, have any influence with the infinitely holy, majestic God.

They must be purified by the mediator, Jesus Christ, our high priest. So does God hear the prayers of other people? Of course he hears them. But does he love to hear the prayers of unbelievers?

No. The unbelievers like Islam, Muslims who pray to their false god, or the Mormons who pray to their false god, or the Catholics who pray to their idolatrous Mary. This is not something that God loves to hear. These are sinful things. They need to be prayers that go through Christ, Jesus, God in flesh, died on the cross, rose from the dead.

That's how it's supposed to be. So that quote is an ignorant, unfortunate, theological quote that's a little bit too feel-goodism. Who said it? Greg Laurie of Calvary Chapel out there in California. Now, nobody's immune to speaking some heresy, but some are worse than others. I wish that evangelists would stick to evangelism and let the theology be for the theologians.

And I think evangelists need to study under the theologians and understand what is and is not acceptable theological perspectives biblically. All right. Three open lines if you want to give me a call. 877-207-2276. Carolyn from Houston, Texas. Carolyn, welcome. You're on the air. Thank you. Thank you so much. God bless you.

God bless you. I have a question. Matt, I have a question.

I've been listening to several of your debates regarding baptism. Can you hold on? We've got a break. Sorry. I apologize.

Can you hold on, Carolyn? Okay. Okay. Please stay tuned.

All right. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Three open lines. 877-207-2276. Be right back. Welcome back, everybody.

We have three open lines. If you want to call, get in the line. The number 877-207-2276. Carolyn from Houston, welcome back. Thank you. Thank you.

My question was simple, but not so simple. I was raised and baptized as a Jehovah's Witness. I was baptized as a Jehovah's Witness at the age of 14. At the age of around 24, I gave my life to Christ, saved, and so grateful for that. But I've been listening to your debates with baptism and all of the whole bit, and I'm just impressed in my heart. Should I actually get baptized again?

I'm doing some research on it, but I wanted to get your take just in that specific scenario. The Jehovah's Witness baptism is not a true baptism. It does not count. It's a non-Christian cult. Right. So you need to get baptized.

It was so compelling. I go, I trust Matt. But I'm still going to continue the research so that I may witness to others who may be in the same situation, but the Holy Spirit was like, yeah, you need to get baptized in Christ. Now, here's the thing.

Thank you so much. Hold on one second. Because you said something I want to respond to. You said the Holy Spirit said. So what do you mean by that? Just curious.

Yeah, sure. Well, what I mean by that is I'm just having questions of compelling or just, I don't want to say a feeling, but a conviction that I need to be baptized, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I was not baptized like that. So it just kept coming up and kept coming up in my mind.

And then I felt like it was the Holy Spirit leading down that corridor. I'm not sure if I'm clear or if I'm saying it quickly, but yeah. Okay. Let me ask you, do you know that the Jehovah's Witness organization is a non-Christian cult? I know that now. Okay, so you do know.

I've known that now for maybe about two years. Okay, so you know that. So the thing is that their baptism has no validity whatsoever. Their theology is false and they are leading millions to eternal damnation. So that was not a true baptism in the wildest stretch of the imagination. So you need to get baptized quickly. Are you attending a church?

I am. Then go to the church. We're not meeting right now, but I'm sure I can call my pastor and arrange. Yes, call your pastor and arrange to get baptized quickly.

If he says, well, we'll put it off for a couple of months. No, but the Bible says that they got baptized immediately. I recognize now that I have not really truly been baptized. I need to get baptized.

How can we do this? Now, me, I believe in sprinkling, pouring, and immersion. That's just my opinion, and I believe I can make a good case for that in Scripture.

If you want to be just sure, get immersed and find someone who's got a pool or go to a local stream or river, whatever it is, and get it taken care of. Yes. Amen. That was my question and thank you so much. You're welcome so much. Well, God bless, all right? Thank you. Bye-bye. Okay, God bless. Bye. Hey, folks, we have four open lines wide open, and why don't you give me a call?

877-207-2276. Ernie from Gastonia, you're on the air. Yeah. Don't be scared.

It's just Ernie. What do you got, man? I got a quick question that's been riding my brain. We talk about cessation and continueness. Am I saying the second one wrong? Cessationism and continuationism. Okay.

If we're looking at those two things, we've had some awesome calls in the past, and you've gone into depth, but I always have the same question at the end. If it is true and we believe that it has not stopped, why are people not being raised from the dead? Who says people are not being raised from the dead?

Well, I mean, the last guy that told me that I thought might have needed to have a doctor visit. So I don't know anybody personally who's been raised from the dead. Okay, so there you go. So you have not seen it or experienced it. There are anecdotal accounts of third-world resurrections of people in various places.

Are they verified? I don't know. Now, resurrection of the dead is not one of the charismatic gifts. It's not an issue of cessationism or continuationism because the issue of the charismatic gifts deals with things like tongues, word of knowledge, word of wisdom, prophecy, interpretation of tongues. So commanding the dead to rise is not one of them. But I do believe that God can certainly use a person to do that. Personally, I believe it happens in the world.

I can't verify it. But I know that the charismatic gifts and the miraculous occur, generally speaking, in the context of the furthering of the Gospel. I met a guy at a gym a year and a half or so ago. We were talking, and he certainly sounded like a good Christian man. I quizzed him, and he certainly seemed to be Christian. And he told me, now this is hearsay, but he told me he went to Africa with his church and did mission work and that a woman brought in the body of her son. He was still limp, wasn't no rigor mortis. And they prayed over this young boy, and he woke up and stood up.

And he said he saw this with his own eyes and that he was prepared to be dead for all intents and purposes. So I don't know. Does it happen?

I don't see why not. Is it normative? I wouldn't say that it is. Well, I mean, I hope you would know that I wouldn't doubt that God can do anything anywhere, anytime, anyhow. I do believe that. I just, like you said, never have I seen it verified, and it always just kind of pops into my head when that conversation's going on.

But you answered it well. Do you kind of lean towards that you would believe it more than you wouldn't? That it's possible that it has?

I believe it has happened, but I believe that God keeps the miraculous under wraps. It's not for show. Because even when Jesus did the miraculous, he said, go tell no one. You're right. I think even Paul had people leave the room too, didn't he, when he did the little girl. You're right.

Good enough, man. I think it has something to do with the idea of people putting their faith in the miraculous instead of God. And that's what I think. But I could see it happening. And if it happens in a village in Africa where missionaries are preaching and teaching, who's going to believe it? But then the people get converted left and right because of these things. And there are conversions to Christianity happening in third world countries all over the world.

They're happening a lot. There are more Christians alive. There's a lot more now. That's right. All right, buddy. Well, thank you. All right, man.

God bless. Talk to you later. Okay. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. We'll be right back. Welcome, everyone. We're back on the air here. Let's get to Donald from Raleigh, North Carolina.

Donald, you're on the air. Hello. I do have a question this time. What's the difference between the Roman Catholic Church and the Holy Catholic Church?

Is it the same thing? The Catholic Church as a whole has different rites in it. So there's, let's see, there are Baryonite, there are Chaldean, and the Roman Catholic is a Roman rite.

So the other ones are generally in the east, and the Roman one is generally in the west. Okay. So they're in different places, but do they believe basically the same thing? Yes. Basically, and there are differences.

I don't know what the minutiae are. Well, you don't have to go into every little detail and tittle, I'm trying to cut you off, but what I mean is, for example, like the apostle's creed, the Methodist, I was raised Methodist, I don't care whether it's Methodist, Baptist, whatever, you know, Jesus is the one that died for our sins, and he rose again, and if we believe in him, he would go through Jesus to get to God, and God, we can't, God's spirit draws us to him. Jesus said nobody can come to his father but by me. I understand all that. But what I'm saying, you take this little kid, this little five- or six-year-old young'un, and you're in church, you say, I believe the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, you don't even know what the Holy Catholic Church means. But you say it. Well, do you have more of a question on this?

No, I'm just thinking about it. You know, that's why I come and ask you what's the difference in the Holy Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Church. I agree with you.

Roman has to do with the Roman light. Some people are like in different places. And the Holy Catholic is. But the thing about it is, and what I've never understood since I started reading the Bible and stuff and getting into it, what I've never understood is Jesus is our way to God through Jesus.

I know what you're saying. They're praying through Mary. Do they not understand that Jesus is the way to God?

Does their Bible not say that? Well, let's just say that the history of the Roman Catholic Church is one of scriptural addition, tradition, man-made theology, apostasy, and the infiltration of demonic doctrines throughout the history of the Roman Catholic Church. It's not a true Christian Church.

It teaches idolatry, rich righteousness, and the whole bit. Within the Holy generic, the Catholic Church as a whole, there are different divisions or rites. But they're all supposed to be subject to the Pope. Yeah, he's the big wheel.

He's the head of the thing. It's obvious like you have to go through the Pope to get to God. There are ruminations of that kind of a thing that you can't go to God without being under the Pope and things like that.

So the Roman Catholic Church is just in the service of the Antichrist. Okay, because it teaches a false gospel. I guess it's the way we're taught. Sometimes you can believe things that are not true because you were taught to believe it. I mean, you know what I mean.

It would be quiet because I could talk forever. That's why I point people to scripture. All right, Don? Sir? Appreciate it, man. I said appreciate it. It's okay.

We've got some calls going, so I'm going to keep going. Okay, buddy? Yeah, man. Thanks, bye. All right, man. Thanks a lot. All right, let's get to Ryan from Utah.

Ryan, you're on the air. Welcome. Oh, cool. Well, hello. How are you? I'm all right.

What have you got? Great. I have a few questions. My first one was just about Jesus. You're breaking up a little.

God created the firmness of Christ. Okay. Oh, sorry. Can you hear me now? Yes.

Okay. So I was just, you know, I had a few questions, and my first question is about Genesis 1.6. God created the firmament dividing the waters between the waters and the hills and stuff like that. I've just done a lot of research on the earth being flat. I know it sounds crazy and all, but I had a neighbor that said, hey, what shape do you think the earth is? I'm like, well, I mean, over a year or a year. What's that flicking sound?

Wait, wait, wait, wait, that real loud chirp. Do you know what that is? I don't. Okay. All right. Let's see if it happens again. Maybe there's someone listening to me. I don't know.

We'll find out. So what's your question then? About Genesis 1.6.

What about Genesis 1.6? Okay. Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters.

Let it separate the waters from the waters. Okay. Right.

Right. I had a neighbor that asked me a question, hey, what shape do you think the earth is? I said, well, it's round. I'm pretty sure we've got pictures of space. He's a flat earther. Right.

You're breaking up again. I don't know if you're walking or moving, but he's a flat earther and it's a bad position to hold. Incidentally, the earth is not a sphere. It's an oblate spheroid, which means it's slightly flattened at the poles. Just say, hey, it's an oblate spheroid and see what he does. I've written an article on flat earth.

It's on CARM. There are some very good arguments against flat earth. Generally speaking, those who hold to flat earth don't listen to the facts, don't listen to reasoning. I was talking to a flat earther just, I think, three days ago. I asked him a question.

I'll pose this question out there for those who might be leaning that way. People in the chat room heard the question and they thought it was a good question. They weren't sure how this guy was going to answer it.

He couldn't answer it. Here's the thing. Imagine the flat earth model of a table, three foot diameter rounded table. There's a dome, just a glass dome over it.

This is the model. Underneath the dome are two lights, the moon and the sun, which are the same size. This is the flat earth model and they rotate around each other near the top. The question is simple. During a day, we can see both the sun and the moon from anywhere. Why is it we can't see the sun and the moon again, so to speak, at night since they're both up there above and the line of sight is the same all over the earth?

Real simple. Well, that's perspective depending on where you're at because if you're in the normal way... No. If you have a dome on a flat table and you put a flat table, just a three foot diameter table, and let's just say you hang something above it from three feet above it. From every single spot on the table, you can have a direct line of sight to that object.

Period. So why is it that there's darkness at all? What happens is the sun is spotlight.

It only shines in one direction. The flat earthers basically don't know how to deal with the issues like this and other issues that are problematic. So ask them that question, okay?

You can go to the corner of the site and read on it. Well, I've read a whole year on it. I've done extensive research.

I know. I've got a question for you. Are you leaning towards flat earth?

Yeah. Well, I'm just trying to get people to start questioning. Are you leaning towards flat earth?

What do you mean by that? Are you leaning towards believing in flat earth? Well, to me, it's not even a belief anymore. Okay, let me ask you a question.

Let me ask you a question. Are you leaning towards believing in flat earth? The answer is yes or no. Well, not exactly because it's not a belief for me.

To me, it's I know. Okay, let me ask you another question. One more time, I'll ask the question. Are you leaning towards believing in a flat earth or not?

Well, it's not a belief to me. We're going to move along. Let's get to Randall from West Virginia. Randall, welcome. You are on the air. Hello, Matt. Hi. I'm a long-time listener of yours, and I hope you can hear me clearly.

I'm using my cell phone instead of my home phone. No problem. Now, before I ask the question, I will let you know that I was electrocuted many years ago, and I have to think about my words before I speak them. I think you and I talked before about this, but go ahead.

No problem. Yeah, I think we did. But my whole life, I have seen God working and miracles through my whole life, and it doesn't take much faith for me because I have seen too much on both sides. But many years ago, I had an experience where it was like I was praying, and I spoke in a different language. It was nothing like that I had ever seen on TV or anything. It was so real.

I come up from where I was at. I run to my mom and dad around the house, and I come in the door, and I was praising God. My sister was there, and my brother hit his knee, and it was such a miraculous thing. Now, my sister's seen this, is the point, but now she has converted to Islam. And when I bring this up to her, because she was there and she seen this, she says it wasn't tongues, or it wasn't something like that. I'm hesitant to call them tongues because it was an experience.

But she did not, she thinks that it was something special that Allah allowed to happen. Yeah, well, we could talk about Islam a little bit after the break, so we've got callers waiting. But let's hold on, and we'll get back, and you ask me the question, and we'll see if we can answer it, okay? So hold on, folks. We'll be right back after these messages.

Please stay tuned. Back to the show, everyone. Randall, are you still there?

Yeah, I'm here. Let me just cut it down short for you, because I don't want to talk a lot. People have told me if God would show me what he's shown to other people, I would serve him.

My sister is 1K. Does God waste his time? Well, I know his time is not wasted, but does God spend his time showing people miracles, and showing them things, if they are never going to come to him? Yes. There are accounts in the Bible where the miraculous occurred to the Egyptians, and to the Pharisees, and Sadducees, and people of Israel, and they rejected Christ.

They rejected the true living God, so yes, it does occur, okay? Yeah, it's just my sister. I'm just worried. She's such a sweet person. Well, why don't you have her call the radio show, and let's talk. Have her call the radio show.

Well, I don't think she would. Well, you can also go to the CARM website and read up on Islam. We'll go to the cut and paste section on CARM and read up on Islam, too.

There's a lot of stuff there that people don't know. Muhammad married a nine-year-old girl. He was a slave owner, and he owned a black slave, and he had people killed and tortured.

He was demonically oppressed, obviously, and he made things up, and he would get the spoils of war, and he became very, very rich and very powerful, and got lots of women. So there's a lot of stuff, and that's a smattering. Why do some people never see any miracles or anything? Because God doesn't show them miracles. God just doesn't show them, that's all. Ask God that one.

Miracles come from God, and he shows them to some and not others. Okay. All right, well, thank you, Matt. God bless, Randall.

Keep listening and keep calling. Okay, that was Randall from West Virginia. Let's get to Tammy from Utah. Tammy, welcome. You are on the air. Hi, Matt. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Yep.

What do you got? I'm having a hard time hearing you, I guess. I just have one question. Do you believe that baptism is essential for salvation? No. Absolutely.

Unequivocally, no. Okay, good. I was listening earlier. I'm out of Mormonism for about 30 years. Good. And I listen to your show so I can learn how to talk to my friends and family that are still in it.

Okay. And so, being... Are you in the... I just was godless for years and years, and got into the Bible again recently.

Well, a few years ago. And I was just wondering if I needed to be baptized again. Wait, wait, wait, wait. The Mormon baptism doesn't count. You need to get baptized. Are you going to a Christian church? I'm going to a First Baptist church.

Okay. Go to the elders. Tell them you need to get baptized. You're baptized as a Mormon. If they say no big deal, then run out of the church. Take the dust off of your feet as you're going because they wouldn't recognize truth if it bit them. They should just say, okay, let's get baptized.

Let's do it. Okay, so that should happen. Now, are you familiar with... Well, if it's not necessary for... It's not necessary for salvation. If it's not necessary for salvation, is it just because Jesus said to get baptized? Yes, he said to get baptized. Is that why you do it? It's also a public declaration of your faith and commitment to Christ.

It's also a covenant sign. So, get it done. Now, are you listening to me on the radio down there in Salt Lake City? Yeah.

Well, I'm in Nephi, but yeah, I listen to you and I don't get static. Okay. Well, I think we're in a station in Provo also, but are you familiar with Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson's ministry down there? Yes.

Okay, good. Well, their friends of mine are great and I would recommend, you know, if you have questions about stuff, not that I'm going to say don't call me, of course call me, but they're local and they're great. They just really know their stuff about Mormon. Yeah, I listen to them, I think, at 10 a.m. Yeah, yeah. Bill and Eric are awesome. I used to get their newsletter.

Yeah, well, call them up and say you want it. Okay. I still get it. Yeah, I've known them for decades.

They're good guys. Okay. All right.

Well, God bless. Okay. All right.

Thank you, Matt. Okay. All right. Bye.

All right. Let's get to Andrew from Ohio. Hey, Andrew. You're on the air.

Thanks, Matt. Yeah. On your opinion on Colossians Chapter 2 verses 13 through 14, can you go through that again and prove that why? I think you always use that to prove that Reformed theology is correct, if I'm right.

Yeah. In my opinion, one of the most important and powerful verses or such a scripture in the entire Bible for that. This is what it says in verse 13. I'll explain it.

I'll go quickly because we're getting towards the end of the show. It says, when you were dead in your transgressions, a transgression is breaking the law. You transgress the law, so it's a sin. When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions. Verse 14, having canceled out the certificate of debt, consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us.

He's taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. So the issue is the certificate of debt, and that's a single Greek word. And the Greek word is kerografon. It occurs only there in the entire Bible.

Kerografon. It means a handwritten IOU of legal indebtedness. And so, since it says in verse 13, having forgiven us all our transgressions, in verse 14, having canceled out the certificate of debt, the certificate of debt contextually certainly seems to be the sin debt.

When we sin, we break the law of God, 1 John 3.4. And Jesus on the cross said to telestai in Greek, in John 19.30, which is, it is finished. But the word to telestai has been found written in a different handwriting on ancient tax receipts, signifying a legal debt that's been paid in full. So a debt that's been canceled, a debt that's been fulfilled. And since Jesus equated sin with debt in our Father, heart, and heaven, hallowed be thy name, forgive us our debts in Matthew 6.12, forgive us our sins in Luke 11.4. So it looks like what's happening here in Colossians 2.14 is he canceled out the sin debt, the certificate of debt.

And it says, having nailed it to the cross. So the sin debt was canceled at the cross. It's not canceled when you believe. It's canceled at the cross, because that's what it says. The certificate of debt is canceled at the cross right there. Having canceled out the certificate of debt, consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us, he's taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

So when was it taken away? At the cross. This refutes baptismal regeneration. It refutes sacramentalism. It refutes all kinds of stuff.

It's clear. Now, the question is, can you be held responsible for a sin debt that's canceled? And the answer is no, it doesn't exist anymore.

If I were to pay a bill that you have, whether you like it or not, it's irrelevant if the debt's actually paid, the debt doesn't exist anymore. It's canceled. It's gone. No more. So if Jesus canceled the sin debt, who'd he cancel it for?

Everybody? If he canceled it for everybody, then everybody has to go to heaven, because there would be no sin debt, no sin to hold to their account. If there is no sin, they can't go to hell. People say, well, they've got to believe. Well, belief does not cancel the sin debt.

Belief results in justification. Romans 5-1, Romans 3-28. So it cannot be that Jesus canceled the sin debt for everybody who ever lived. And we know that's the case, because in 1 Samuel 3-14, it says, where God says to the house of Eli, he promises, God says that the sins of Eli's house will not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.

Period. So the sins of Eli's house were not taken away. The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not paid for. People will say, well, unbelief is paid for. Well, unbelief is a command of God. I mean, unbelief. Belief is a command of God. You know, believe in the true, living God, Exodus 20. And Jesus says, believe in God, believe in God, believe also in me.

It's a command. So if we don't do that, it's a sin. Did Jesus pay for all of our sins or just most of them? If he paid for most of them, then we have no guarantee of salvation, and we have to do something to get ourselves saved, which is a heresy. He paid for all of them, and all of our sins were future to the cross. So this demonstrates the Reformed theological perspective of definite atonement, to get Christ for the sins of the elect. It also demonstrates eternal security, because if Christ is the one who paid the sin debt for the ones given to him, John 6, 37 through 40, they can't be lost, because all of their sin debt is canceled, not just most of it.

And if it's canceled, well, then we don't have to worry about anything, do we? We don't have to keep our salvation. We don't have to work to keep it. We don't have to be good to keep it, because Christ is the one who did it and took care of our sin debt at the cross. So we're secure in the work of Christ. We're also regenerate and don't want to sin. We struggle against our sin. That's part and parcel to the regenerative work of God.

And it supports the idea of God's election. God certainly chooses. Those will be his that he has given to Christ. We are chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1.4.

That's what it says. And we're given to Christ. Jesus says in John 6, 37, All that the Father gives me will come to me, and the ones who come to me I certainly will not cast out. This is the will of my Father, that all that come to me and have everlasting life, and I will raise him up on the last day. The will of the Father is that he lose none.

So this is part and parcel with that as well. It's a very, very powerful verse. It refutes all kinds of false doctrines, if people believe it. Believe the verse. So Jesus' imputed righteousness was for me and you and all the elect, I guess you could say. In God's omniscience, it was at the cross. God's propitiatory sacrifice was at the cross. Propitiation, it says in 1 John 2, 2, it's a propitiation not only for our sins but the sins of the whole world.

The word world there means all the nations, not just Israel. And propitiation means a sacrifice that removes the wrath. It actually accomplishes the removal of the wrath by the offering.

It doesn't make it possible depending on another condition like belief or jumping jacks or whatever. And so the propitiation actually removes the wrath. This is biblical theology. This is not what's taught in a lot of churches because they have the feel-goodism idea, the blonde-haired, blue-eyed Caucasian surfer Jesus standing at the door of your heart asking permission for you in the wisdom of your sinfulness to let him in.

And there's one heretical song that is a really pretty song. God, I give you permission. The heresy of such a teaching. I give you permission, God.

Give me a break. God grants that we believe, Philippians 1.29. He grants us repentance, 2 Timothy 2.25. We're born again not of our own will, John 1.13. He causes us to be born again, 1 Peter 1.3. As many as had been appointed to eternal life believed, Acts 13.48.

What I'm teaching is biblical theology. And when people adopt this theological perspective, they rest in Christ because they realize that God loved them from the foundation of the world and his thoughts and his love for them are infinite and that Christ came to redeem all who would believe and they cannot be lost because their salvation does not depend upon their goodness or their faithfulness or their wisdom or their ability. But in the infinitely valuable and powerful work of the blood of Christ shed on that cross. And Christ's work cannot be undone. So we're secure in him.

That's the power of that verse and others. Okay? We're out of time, buddy. God bless. Well, good to meet you.

Thank you very much. All right. Hey, Matt from Fort Worth.

Call on Monday. Let's talk about some of the favorite debates I've had. Hey. Hey. Everybody, have a great weekend. May the Lord bless you. And by his grace, we're back on the air on Monday. We'll talk to you then. See you. Bye.