Matt Slick Live

A previously recorded Matt Slick show. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Francis taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everyone, how are you out there in radio land? I'm doing fine.

Sitting here. Thanks for asking. And if you want to give me a call, all you got to do as usual is dial 877-207-2276.

Love to hear from you. So please give me a call. And we have five open lines right now. It often happens at the beginning of the show that we have some open lines. I'm a little bit out of breath because at the last minute I remembered a couple of things.

I had to run and do this and do that. And so I'm sitting down. And if you want to watch the show, all you got to do is go to karm.org. And on the right hand side of any page, you'll find the link and the information there for just watching. It's not a big deal. I just sit here in the office and get the camera on.

And some people like it. And we have a chat room that people participate in. And sometimes we get to the issues of the chat on the radio. People aren't calling.

We have four open lines, 877-207-2276. I just want to remind you also, go to smile.amazon.com. And what you can do is you can set up a charity of some sort so that when you get something on Amazon, it'll go to your charity later on. So that's kind of nice.

And you can put KARM in there if you'd like. And it does help out. Every little bit helps. And also we have the three schools. So we have School of Theology and Apologetics and also of Critical Thinking. So if you are interested in learning at your own pace, going lesson by lesson, this is nothing like it's going to be 800 pages of material and you've got to understand all kinds of big words. It's not like that.

I introduce stuff and step by step and build on it, lesson after lesson. And the schools cost $33, but if you get all three of them, there's a discount. And if you can't afford them, well, what we do is we just give them to you for free.

All you've got to do is email them and just say that you can't afford them and you want them. And that's it. And we will get what you need. And that's what we do. So we're not here to make money. We are here to spread the gospel, but it does take money to keep the lights on and stuff like that.

All right. There's something else on my mind, but I did a Patreon video last night talking about the state of the Christian church. And that's been on my mind a lot lately, particularly with all of the things that are going on in the world and how the Christians are becoming more and more persecuted even here in America. The news media, of course, doesn't talk about that. If a homosexual is insulted, then it's front page news. But if a Christian church is burned, no mention. But this kind of stuff is happening. And we have to be careful. We have to be careful as Christians because when those kinds of biases are held by the media, truth is surrendered to their agenda. And we need to be informed.

And we really do about everything. So there are alternative news sources out there. I recommend you check them out. And on your phone, check out Conservative News Pro. I use it and I think it is really good.

Conservative News Pro. Please check it out. And I know that the Facebook thing just quit. I'll reconnect it here in a minute. While we get to the calls, let's do that first. Give me a call, folks.

877-207-2276. Let's get to Alan from Sacramento, California. Alan, welcome.

You're on the air. Alan Smith How's it going, Matt? Matt It's going, man. It's going. What's up?

Alan Smith All right. Well, I'm the guy who actually reached out to you on Facebook that's licensed with IPHC. I don't know everything about them. But I'm the same guy you were talking to this morning.

And I had a question unrelated to what we were talking about. I was wondering, what's your best assessment of what the first-century church looks like, like an individual congregation, as far as where they would meet, the roles of pastors and elders and things like that. What would that look like from your assessment of Scripture? Matt Well, just go to the book of Acts and the pastoral epistles. We see them being evangelistic. We see money being transferred between churches in order to help out one another. We see people giving for the Lord. We see those kinds of things. As far as the physical thing goes, they generally met in synagogues on Sundays. That's called the Lord's Day. And there was often a preaching of the sermon, as Paul is recorded as doing in 1 Corinthians 16, for example. And that kind of thing. Generally speaking, the women would sit in the back of the church, the synagogue building, or a building, whatever they would have, and the men sat up front.

And the way it was done back then is that the preacher, a teacher, would sit and everybody else would stand. Now it's reversed, which is no big deal, but that kind of stuff. Okay. David Yeah, it's been on my mind lately.

I'm wondering how close we are in modern times to what it was originally like. So I just kind of wanted your assessment. I've been using your website for years. I think evangelism always ends up in apologetics at some point in time, so you've been a huge help to me.

Matt Well, yeah. You know, you're talking about something that's kind of close to my heart. I know that a lot of people aren't like maybe you or me and like to go door to door or have done that. That's pretty intimidating for a lot of people. But I do believe that the more people know about the Lord and the truth of God's word, then I believe that the more apt they will be during witnessing and more likely to witness. I think the pastor needs to exemplify that and the elders need to do that, too. I think what happens in churches, though, which was clearly in the New Testament church, a lot of evangelism going on, a lot, but we don't see much of that today. And I think the reason is because the church is too comfortable. We get up in our air-conditioned homes and go to our microwaves and nuke some coffee and, you know, instant coffee or whatever it is, and we get in our GPS guided cars with our air conditioner heaters and go to a nice church and everything's comfortable. And we're just so comforted that the idea of risking and sharing the gospel is just not something that we'll do because it's uncomfortable.

And we have to be comfortable. And also, I believe that a lot of pastors, not all, but a lot of pastors preach in order to comfort people, and their messages are milquetoast. And so the people that assemble in church are conditioned to being weak. And when a persecution comes, they panic. They don't do, instead of being united. That's not everybody, but this is what I've seen in a lot of places, and it's unfortunate.

Yeah, so like most of the people I've talked to that don't go out and share their faith. They give one of two reasons. They don't feel like they're equipped. And honestly, the only way I think you can really get equipped is kind of on the street.

I know that's your background, but that's kind of my background too. And then they don't feel like they're called, which is just a matter of not understanding the Great Commission, I think. Right, well, there's a factor. You know, if I was teaching, if I was a pastor of a church again, and I was teaching on this topic, I'd make sure that people understood that different people have different giftings.

I can go into any crowd and do open air and field questions and be comfortable with it. But the lady who's just, you know, raising kids at home, that's a full-time job. I wouldn't expect her to do something like that. She's going to be expanding the kingdom in a different way, raising children for the glory of God. And so that's perfectly acceptable. But the body of Christ as a whole is called to evangelize and to witness. And so there needs to be a program in the church where that's encouraged and where it's exemplified. And those who want to can go out and participate in that. I used to do that a lot in Southern California, go to the beach. I'd dress up like a punker and went down to the beach, pierce my ear and everything. And would witness, go to the piers. I went door to door, did swap meet ministry, put ads in papers, call these numbers.

I did all kinds of stuff to reach out. That's just me. That's not everybody. I don't judge anybody for not doing that kind of stuff. I'm going to do it the way the Lord calls you. I think if more believers try to, I think they'd enjoy it.

I think they'd find that God always comes through in some amazing way. And every single day that you go out for that, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Some way, you know, like I've got a t-shirt on right now that says truth.

It's got a cross at the bottom. And we were talking yesterday after the show about getting some Karm t-shirts, you know, like, and have a sayings on there, you know, like, uh, I'm sorry, what? I said, yeah, you had a list, right?

Yes. And, uh, you know, so what, you know, it weren't more t-shirts. I used to have a t-shirt. I outgrew it, or I hope to say that it, it shrank, but it used to say, uh, I'm a five point on millennial, Peter Baptist, non-susational covenantal Calvinist.

What are you? That was on my shirt and wear that. And, uh, usually people just got in my way when they, when they would read it. But the idea was to try something to, uh, to generate a conversation. And, uh, you know, I'm always looking for opportunities when I go places. Uh, I, I, my ears are trained to hear words like Jesus, Lord, God, Bible church.

And I just, I hear them and I just focus on them. And so, uh, I've started many conversations with people. I've gone to bookstores. I remember I'll go to bookstores.

This is something I recommend people do very easily. Just go to Barnes and Noble and go hang out in the religious section and, uh, see when people see when they go to the new age section. And I've done this before and, and, uh, kind of look at some new age books while someone's next to me and say, Hey, how's it going? And start a conversation. One time, for example, a mom and her son, he was starting a night job where he needs some reading material.

And so, uh, this is 10, 12 years ago and, uh, they were picking up occult books, new age books. And so we had a conversation and by the time they left, they had Frank Peretti's books, which is a good Christian author. So, you know, it's just, you know, I'm not bragging.

It's just, Hey, you know, there's opportunities and, and sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. And so like my last name, Slick. Well, you know, I introduced myself someplace or I'll say, what's your last name?

You know, reservation or whatever it might be. I'll say Slick. And, you know, sometimes people stare at me and I go, and I'm a reverend too. And I'll say, but it just never sounds right. Reverend Slick. And they kind of chuckle. And I say that because I'm hoping to start a conversation and be able to witness.

So I use everything I can within a reason. So as far as the early century, the early church model, what, what were the roles, as you see it, of elders and deacons and those sorts of things? What did they, what actually need did they fill? The role of the elder is to teach sound doctrine, refute error. And the pastor is one of the elders. And so the elders would rule, and this is what it's supposed to be. A lot of people mistakenly think that the church is supposed to be run by popular vote.

That is wrong. It is run in the Presbyterian context. And that is elder rule. That's what it says. And for example, if I go to 1 Timothy 5 17, the elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching.

And we go to 1 Timothy 3, it says the overseer, and that's interchangeable with elder, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach. And things like that that are great coming up. So that's what has to happen. In fact, we get back, let's talk about a little bit more. I hope the elders are listening. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

776. Alan, are you still there? Are you still there, Alan? Oh, yes, I am. All right. Yeah, we were talking about elders and I wanted to comment a little bit more about them.

What I'm going to do is urge, if there's elders listening, pastors listening, to consider reading Titus chapter one, verses five through nine. For this reason, I left you in, you're making some noise there. I'm going to put you on hold or you can do some stuff there. Okay.

Cause I got the noise. Okay. Uh, for this reason, I left you in Crete that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you. Namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe not accused of dissipation or rebellion. For the overseer, it must be above reproach. Now folks, the word for elder here in the Greek is presbuteros. The word for overseer is episkopos, which they get Bishop. Um, but there notice how they're interchangeable here that the elders, et cetera, et cetera, for the overseer, because an elder is an overseer. Verse seven for the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not self-willed, not quick tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain, but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled, holding fast the faithful word, which is in accordance with this teaching so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict. So this is one of the requirements of an elder among many is to be able to exhort in sound doctrine and refute those who contradict.

Well, what does that mean? It means an elder should be able to explain and defend monotheism, the doctrine of the Trinity, the hypostatic union. That's the two natures of Christ, the person and work of Christ on the cross and what he did on the cross. And he should have the ability to explain the gospel and defend it from scripture. He should know what justification is and be able to differentiate that from sanctification. He should have wisdom in the area of marriage because it is biblically taught. He should know about the coming judgment and the eternal judgment of God. And he should be able to have some areas of knowledge and counseling because the Bible teaches about counseling issues. So these are some of the things that the elders should know about. And if you're an elder listening to this, the question is, do you know these things?

Are you able to explain them and defend them? And can you refute somebody who would say that there's more than one God? Where would you go in scripture for that? What about someone who says that God takes different modes? Where would you go in the Word of God to refute that?

Where would you go if someone said Jesus is not in a physical body right now? What would you do about that? What would you do if someone said you have to do good works in order to remain a Christian and keep yourself saved?

What would you do? Where would you go in scripture for that? If you're an elder and I'm asking these questions and you don't know the answers, you're basically disqualified as an elder.

You're supposed to already know these things. And if that makes you unhappy, well, it's not my problem. The Bible says that you're supposed to be able to exhort in sound doctrine and refute those that contradict. All I'm doing is citing those things that are of sound doctrine and asking questions about it. So if you fail in these areas, you either need to step down as an elder or you need to study these things and have them memorized so that you can do what the Bible says an elder is supposed to do. Yeah, the Word of God is tough.

And this is what it says. And we need to toughen ourselves up a little bit for the coming problems of life. Let's get back to Alan. Okay, Alan, did you hear all that? Yeah. I heard you though. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I know that a lot of people don't like what I say when I talk like this.

They think I'm an arrogant jerk, which is true. But the question is, is what I'm saying true? That's the issue. So, all right, buddy. Okay. All right. Well, hey, thank you very much for your time. All right, man. God bless. All right.

All right. That was Alan from Sacramento, California. We have three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Scott from Winston-Salem, North Carolina. Scott, you're on the air. Yeah, how you doing, Matt? Doing all right, buddy. I got a verse, and I'm not trying to be quarrelsome, but I want to see if it fits.

I read this on your show one day. It said, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. My question is, in the New Testament, what are the commandments? Well, love God, love your neighbor. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal?

No, the commandments are love God, love your neighbor, to pray, seek the Lord, love one another, be forgiving, things like that. That's what God's will is for us. Okay. Okay, I've got one more quick question. Romans 3. Okay. Yeah.

Have you got it? I'm looking at Romans 3, yeah. Mm-hmm. It deserves a verse. Verse 31, I hope you contacted us.

Do we then notify? We may void the law through faith. God forbid, yea, we establish the law.

Well, a certain season is not important, but at least not to Gentiles. Well, what's your question about that verse? What would you say about that, folks? Well, the law of God teaches justification. We must establish the law. The law of God teaches justification by faith.

Sir. And so you're not nullifying the requirements of the law. The law has three main categories. The moral law, the judicial law, and the priestly.

The priestly is fulfilled in Christ. The judicial is no longer in effect because it's not a theonomic system, and so the moral law is still there. So when they generally talk about the law, it's talking about all three aspects of the totality of the law. The law is not done away with, made of no effect. The law is established through faith.

It's verified. So faith is the necessary outworking. We know this because, for example, Abraham was justified by faith.

That's what the Bible says, that he was justified by faith apart from the works of the law. And we see this when it says Abraham believes God and was credited to him as righteousness. That's Romans 4-3, which is a quote from Genesis 15-6. And so the law is also called the first five books of Moses, and in them the totality of what is said to be there. Also in Habakkuk 2.4, the righteous will live by faith.

And that's what the Bible says. So it's still there. Hey, we got a break. Hold on, okay? Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages, and we'll be back with Scott.

We have one open line, 877-207-2276. Be right back. Matt Slick. Welcome back everybody. Let's get back to Scott. Scott, are you still there? Yes, I am.

All right, now where were we, if I answered your question or not? I'm talking about the law and how it's not made void through faith. Right. I know it does say there's no contradiction between, I guess in Galatians, which is there's no contradiction between law and, what was I going to say, following the Spirit.

And so I don't know. I guess I don't want to end up being sorry, but the main thing I want to ask and point out is that we've got to stay away from the sin, right? Wouldn't you say that's the number one thing, stay away from sin?

No. I would say the number one thing is to glorify God, to consider Him, to seek fellowship with Him in the true and living God, number one. Seek Him. We're called into fellowship with the Father through the Son, Jesus Christ. And actually it says in 1 Corinthians 1, 9, God is faithful through whom we're called into fellowship with His Son.

Seek Jesus. We are to repent of our sins, and it should be way up there in the priority list. But number one should be the person and work of Christ, the person of Christ Himself.

That should be the number one priority. Why does Paul talk about race? He calls the Christian life a race? Because he's using the analogy of competition, and that's familiar to people, that you have to be busy and finish that race well.

And he's talking generically to a lot of people. In other words, be busy with the things of the Lord, not lazy. Okay? Okay. Well, I appreciate your time. All right, well God bless.

God keep calling, okay? All right. Okay. Okay. Good. All right, let's get to Tyler from Long Island, New York.

Tyler, welcome. You're on the air. Good evening, brother. How are you? I'm doing fine by God's grace. What do you got, man? Good. I just have a quick question.

I had called many months ago about spiritual gifts and the Reformed faith, and you were very helpful in pointing me out to a book called Scott's Worthy. Yes. And I started reading through it a little bit and was completely amazed at just the accounts that I was reading of these men in Scotland going against Queen Mary, and she's known as obviously as Bloody Mary. Just how some of the things that were going on in some of the eyewitnesses, like some of this stuff really doesn't line up with cessationism. Of course not. Yeah.

Cessationism, in my opinion, it just doesn't hold any water biblically. And as you've read through that book, they were moving in the charismatic gifts of the Presbyterian, we call them the Presbyterian Divines. Absolutely. Yeah. Yep.

Are you there? Yep. Mm-hmm.

Okay. So I have another website. I've got several websites. And one of them, I actually go through there. And if you have more, let me know. But I go through there and list out, I think it's George Wisher, John Fleming, John Wisher, George Fleming, and John Knox. And if you have some others where other people in there do certain things, if you send me a sentence, you email it to me, I have the book on Kindle.

And I can quote those and put even more out. But the Presbyterian Church, which I was a member of, the PCA, didn't know what to do with that book. It really messed them up.

It did. And I got stories about that. So, yep. Are you there? Yeah. Oh yeah.

There's a lot of interesting stuff going on. The charismatic gifts are still around. You know, Jesus said, or Paul said in 1 Corinthians 1, 7, speaking to all men everywhere who call upon the name of the Lord. That's what it says in 1 Corinthians 1, 2. And it goes on in verse 7, that you not lack any charisma while you're waiting for the return of Christ.

Okay. So we're not lacking any charismatic gift, are we? So that means that the Christian church has these. And that's it. So I'd like to see someone refute that. But it's just what it says. And I believe what it says.

And when we do missionary work, the Lord often moves in such miraculous ways. That's not to say that some one individual has the gift of prophecy. A lot of cessationists say that that's what charismatic stuff means. That's not what it can mean now. But not necessarily.

There are different degrees of cessationism as well as continuationism. My position is that the gifts that were held by the apostles were different than those generic ones given to the church as a whole. And the church as a whole can move where God can give visions and dreams, words of knowledge, words of wisdom, and even prophecies.

It can still happen today. And it does not violate the word of God. Nor does it threaten the canon. That is my position. And I'd be glad to defend it. I don't care who against it.

Not like a mean thing. That's my position. And they argue, okay, let's just go look at the scriptures. And I asked them, show me from the scriptures where the charismatic gifts have ceased. And I don't see it in scripture anywhere.

So that's my position anyway. I guess the Spirit is stable. You realize that the Holy Spirit is the sovereign, third person of the Trinity. And as long as it's being done by the sovereignty of God, and like you're saying, I think it says in 1 Corinthians, he does it according to his willing and his giving self. And once you believe that man is not controlling it, then it still goes on.

That's right. I've had an instance where I prophesied once. I've had an instance where I knew about a person. Knew.

And I remember it very clearly. I guess we call it a word of knowledge. I've talked to others who've had things happen, but generally they're in, they occur during evangelistic contexts where the gospel is going to go forth. And unfortunately, I think there's a, I'm going to be very careful how I say this, a potential weakness within Reformed theology. We, I'm Reformed. We have so many of our I's dotted and T's crossed theologically that we don't need to go out and experience anymore.

And, uh, I'm not saying charismatic. I mean that a lot of Reformed don't want to do that, but you could, if you understand what I'm saying, you can see how that could lend itself to that. And I had to battle this during seminary and I went to a Reformed seminary and just a little bit here and there. But, um, I believe in the current continuation of the gifts. I don't see any reason biblically that they have ceased. And it's cost me a great deal to hold that position too.

A great deal, which I'm still suffering from. That's another story. All right. All you can do is pray. Like if you don't just pray for the humility of, um, people who hold the other position, like whatever it is, you know, like if you're a cessationist or not, a cessationist or not, just you disagree with someone, you can do it respectfully and out of humility. That's what Christ wants you to do.

That's right. Like Justin Peters, if you guys know who he is, he's a friend of mine and he holds to cessationism very strongly. And I hold to continuationism very strongly. We get along fine.

We don't, you know, we don't ruin our friendship over it. He's a great guy. So, you know, there you go. Okay. All right. Thank you very much, brother. Thanks a lot. God bless. All right. The next, the next longest waiting is cruno from Florida. Hey, cruno.

Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. I spoke to you yesterday and after I hung up, um, you were talking to, I think it was a Hebrew Israelite.

Do you remember that yesterday? Oh yeah. And you were talking about the name, uh, Jesus. You don't like calling Jesus and why do we call him Jesus? He's supposed to be Yeshua, right?

They might pronounce it even different. Um, so, and you went to Matthew one 21, right. And then we have his name, right. And now personally, I don't, I don't mind calling him Jesus.

Yes, you are either way. Um, it just, you know, a different language, different way we pronounce it. You know, I'm, I'm from another country and I pronounce, you know, like, like we say, we say Jesus, you know, uh, in my country. What are you from?

I'm sorry. Where are you from? Oh, from Croatia, uh, Europe, you know, uh, okay. Yeah.

Uh, used to be part of Yugoslavia on the war. Oh, then you know who Nikola Tesla was. Oh yeah. Nikola Tesla. Yep.

The one that's why we got electric and that's why we got a cell phone and all that great hero from, from there to here. Anyway, go ahead. Yeah. But anyway, um, so I just thought like, um, you know, cause I, I try to talk to Hebrews, but I, I don't really get it. Uh, because, cause I'm white, I guess they don't want to talk to me, you know, they call me names and then it's just like, what tribe are you from?

And now if I don't answer them, they don't want to talk to me. Um, but, um, when he was asking that, I, I think he was, you know, right. You know, like his mom didn't call him. He, she didn't speak Greek.

That was a Greek translation, you know? Uh, I, I'm just wondering like, have you done any like real serious research because it's okay to call him Yeshua, you know? And, and, and I think Well, let me explain, we got a break. Let me explain why I did what I did yesterday after the break. Okay. All right.

All right. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show. Kruno, are you still there? Yeah, I'm here.

All right. The reason I, uh, focus on that issue that way with them is because it's out of the sacred name cult movement. And what they'll say is you have to have the right name and you got to say the right name in order to be saved. And so salvation is by pronouncement, by knowing a proper name, which only they really know. And then they'll tell you, it's kind of Gnostic. And so they will go to the Hebrew. They don't go to the Greek because they want it to be Yeshua Messiah.

And so they'll say that as one of the variations. And so what I'll do is go to Matthew 1 21, where it says in the Greek, you shall call his name Iesous, which we sing in English, Jesus. And so if they're going to, you know, this sacred name thing, I'm going to stop them right there. And this guy didn't know what to do with that.

He couldn't handle it. And since God in his sovereignty chose to have the New Testament written in Greek, that's what is said. And that's why I pointed it out. Okay. Yeah, but you could have, I mean, I would have came back to something else I would have said, because in Matthew 1, I see your point. I see your point, though. But, um, like I said, you know, he was in the way, right as far as the name. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You don't know that. Well, show me any, any Hebrew manuscript for the first century that says his name is this in Hebrew. You got it?

Any place? It's what? Say it again? You have to have evidence. You can't just say we conclude it's going to be this. It has to, you have to show it. Show me, show me manuscript evidence. Show me something in the Hebrew where they say that's what his name was. It doesn't exist. So here, let me ask you this.

Can I ask you this? Like, uh, Matthew, uh, was written, uh, to what audience would you say? To the Hebrews and then they'll say that was written in Hebrew. Great. So then what is the Hebrew name that was written in the Hebrew manuscript of Matthew that nobody has?

Okay, so I agree with you because that's what, you know, most scholars would say was the audience was the Hebrew because they would assume that Matthew didn't explain the theme. I understand. I understand. I understand. So we're going to change it. No, hold on. But there's no, no, no, no.

Listen, hold on. Do we have the original Hebrew manuscript? Do we have the original Greek manuscript?

Do we have the original Hebrew manuscript of Matthew if, if it was written in Hebrew originally? Do we have it? Uh, no. Okay. So we don't have it then.

How do you know what the Hebrew name of Jesus was? Okay. So, so we don't have either one, right? But we do have, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Matthew's Hebrew manuscript. Okay. Okay. No, I'm, I'm serious.

We do it. Have you ever heard of Shempo's Matthew? Okay. Um, it's older version.

It's older, but have you ever heard it? No. Yeah. Uh, is it, hold on a sec.

Is it from the first century? No. Okay. So notice how I asked you, wait a second. I asked you, is it from the first century?

We want it very, very early. Okay. So don't be going around with what we don't have and say, this is what his name is, but we don't know what, what it really was, but this is what it has to be.

It's just not a good thing to do. Okay. That's all. Okay. So let me, let me go back to the verse. No, no, we're going to, we're going to move on. We don't, no, no. We're going to move on because we have colors waiting. We're going to move on and, uh, we're just going to go on.

Folks. I don't want to get into this with someone like that because it's an argument of silence and are defending an argument of silence. That's not what we're supposed to be doing. We have the Greek.

That's what it says. We don't have any, uh, original basic manuscripts of Matthew that would have his name in it. We don't have that. So we can't argue from that. And to argue, to try and defend that is just doesn't work. We've already gone over it.

We're not going to continue to go over it again, especially when we have people waiting in line. Ron from Virginia beach. Welcome. You're on the air.

Hello, Matt. Thank you for taking my call. My call really appreciate it. Sure.

No problem. What do you got, man? Uh, my question is when you guys anywhere in the Bible says upon death, does it hurt when you, when the spirit leaves your body or does, is there a pain involved? Nothing. Nothing. Nothing in the Bible says that. Okay. Well, I just, I just wondered, I, I'm scared of me and I don't know what it bothers me.

Well, wait a minute. Um, no, uh, you know, I don't understand why it would bother you, uh, when our spirit goes to be with the Lord, this has happened, uh, it's not ever said to be painful. Why would it be painful? Pain is for the physical body. And when the physical body dies, then there's no more pain. Your spirit just goes to be with the Lord. Okay.

Well, there's no more pain, but where's your spirit? I mean, what do you, when you come out of your body, you know where you're at. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Uh, and second, second, which is 12, two and three, Paul knew he went to, I don't know if it's Paul, but, uh, went to the third heaven.

He knew where he was. Okay. All right.

So it's no problem. Say these guys, say these people that they had, they had jumped from a hundred and four. You're going, you're going 140 and you're going to hit the ground. Does father take you before you hit the ground or do we know that? I don't know. Uh, if he wants to, he can, if he doesn't, he doesn't. Does God let people get tortured and beheaded?

Yes, he does. It's happened in history. And then we enter into eternity. I was wondering somebody like, somebody like Hitler, cause he's, you know, when he died, did they, did something happen to him, but wouldn't happen to somebody or love father? We don't know that.

Do we? No, no. All right. Okay. Thank you, Matt. Appreciate it. Okay, man. God bless. All right. Let's get to Sean from New Jersey. Sean. Welcome. You're on the air.

Hey Matt, uh, I know the website is very informative. Thank you. I do have a question as it pertains that I know, uh, understand that you and I both know that, uh, whenever God was physically seen in the Old Testament, we understand that to be the pre incarnate Christ, it wasn't the father cause he, you know, of course does not approachable life. But my question does come up with Exodus 33 verse 20 when God's speaking to Moses says, you cannot see my face or no man can see me and live. Um, now we understand this to be a person to the speed where, you know, God shows his back to Moses. He doesn't necessarily show his face, but we know that this is the father, of course, cause the father doesn't like, but if this is the pre incarnate Christ, it's something I'm curious about because, you know, Christ, uh, you know, he was seen by, you know, Abraham and the prophets. And so, I mean, are we to understand this, that he had his face failed or I just wanted to know your opinion. Well, the question here is, uh, we know we had the Trinitarian, uh, theological perspective to consider because you cannot see my face for no man can see me and live that seems to be consistent with the idea of the father.

That's it. So I would say that's the father that was speaking. You cannot see my face for no man can see me and live. First Timothy 616 talks about that and first Timothy 1 17. And so, you know, it's consistent. And when, uh, and if you go to Exodus 33 11, Lord used to speak to Moses face to face, well face to face here is a personal encounter. So what we have in scripture, we have these statements that suggest plurality and we have statements that suggest a unity and we have to kind of understand the whole of the Bible in the Trinitarian context. We understand that God, the father can't be seen, but the pre-incarnate Christ is seen in the Old Testament. So whenever we'd say he was seen pre-incarnate Christ, but whenever we would say that he can't be seen or there's a problem, the implication is it's dealing with the father.

Oh, so you would say that, okay, this is the father saying this to Moses and no man can see me and live, but when Moses saw the back of the Lord, that was the pre-incarnate Christ. Um, could be. I see like that. So, I mean, yeah, I mean, surely you see where I'm coming from with this a little bit.

Uh, yes. Um, and that has been on my mind. You know, I, I, I, I actually had a thought that maybe, um, you know, when, when I, when I thought this was the pre-incarnate Christ thing, it's the Moses that it was, it is because before his incarnation, he was solely God before becoming the God of man known as Jesus. Um, but I wondered if that had anything to do with it because we know John saw Christ glorified, but of course at that point in Revelation, he was the God man. Um, yeah, that's not a problem because they're seeing that this, the son, Jesus has not that any man has seen the father. That's John 6 46.

He says that. So this is this here in Acts 33 is included. No man has seen the father.

And it says you cannot see my face for no man can see me and live. It seems to be that the implication is it's the father that's a thing that is addressing there, but not necessarily because this is not that cut and dried. We could make the case that it was a father, but it might be that, uh, it was the Lord God himself period in the totality. And that's something worth exploring and discussing. We seem to see that the manifestation of God in human form is the pre-incarnate Christ and the Holy Spirit manifests in wind and flame and things like that. So we study those and say, now, how would this all fit? And then there's a little bit of discussion that we kind of go back and forth on some of these verses. It'll be tough sometimes.

Yeah, I have one more thing to add. Of course, I'm, you know, this just came to thought that, uh, we, as we know that Christ is the express, you know, image of the father, you know, of his person. And when Jesus says, when you have seen me, you have seen the father. So he acts as his representative and, you know, a proxy. So, um, perhaps when the father, if it is indeed the father's thing, they're saying that, you know, man can see me and live. And then we have Christ showing it back to Moses. In other ways, when, when the father addresses Christ as me, you know, it, it could sound confusing, but in other words, he could be saying that this is my son.

You know, he's my, if you've seen, if you want to see me, you've seen him in a way. Um, but yeah, that's actually, yeah. It came to mind. Yeah. There's a lot of discussion about this and, uh, we can have a generic idea of what the principles are and then apply them, but there's some verses where, Hmm, it seems to be a little bit confusing.

Nothing is contradictory, but exactly how is it working? And then there's variables, possibilities. And then we just kind of move on from there and that's it. Okay. Yeah.

Well, yep. Well, thank you, man, for taking my call. Sure, man. No problem, buddy. God bless. All right. God bless.

All right. Let's get to Julius from Birmingham, Arkansas. Hey, Julius.

Welcome. You're on the air. Yes, sir. How are you doing today?

By God's grace doing well, we got about a minute in the show, so you got to hustle up. Sorry about that. Go ahead. I just want to talk about you about the unpardonable sin.

What is your view on that? As far as trying to talk to someone, you know, when they get to it, it is found in Matthew 12 22 to 32. And it's saying that Jesus did his miracles by the power of the evil one.

It's right there. Jesus casting out miracles. He does it by the power of the spirit.

And they and they're accusing him of doing it by the power of the devil. And so he said, blasphemy gets the Holy Spirit not be forgiven in this age or the age to come. Now, if you call back tomorrow and ask it earlier in the show, I could go through some other doctrinal things related to it, like the baptism of Christ, which relates to this topic, believe it or not. But that's what generally what the unforgivable sin is.

Say that Jesus did his miracles by the power of the evil one instead of the Holy Spirit. Okay. Sounds good. Okay.

Yeah. Call back tomorrow and go through it a little bit more slowly. I just want to get to it because we're about out of time.

That's why I'm there. Thank you for your time. All right. There we go.

There's the music. Well, God bless, buddy. Talk to you later. All right.

Well, that worked out well. May the Lord bless you and folks, by his grace, be back on here tomorrow. And hopefully, we'll be able to talk to you then. God bless everybody. Have a great evening. We'll see you. Bye.