Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. Listen to Matt Slick Live. Today's date is December 9th.

And if you want to give me a call, as usual, it's easy. All I have to do is dial 877-2072276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call. You can also, if you want, email me a question at info at carm.org.

Info at C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. Put in the subject line, radio comment. or radio question and we can get to those. As many of you know, I was off for a couple of weeks, and my wife passed away. And now I'm back on for a couple of weeks.

And then at the end of the year, Oh. We're going to be off for the holidays. I'll be back on January 2nd. I think it's January 2nd. I'm coming back on.

And that is hopefully come back on. That is the uh twenty-one year anniversary of uh Of um I think it's the twenty first, like that. Anyway. And we'll figure it out there.

So, hey, like I said, if you want to give me a call, it's easy 877-2077. Two two seven six. I'm looking for something gonna put in my ear. Oh, man, I forgot to do something. Here we go.

There we go. I got so many things I'm doing. And uh There we go.

Now everybody should be able to hear me properly. Man. You know, you know your cords get mixed up in on the chair wheels? There. I got that taken care of.

Technical issue here.

Okay, it's done. Let's just jump on and get with John from Colorado. John, welcome. You are on the air. Hi, Matt.

Mm-hmm. Um did they put in the notes there or do I gotta explain it? Uh it just says uh Revelation twenty-one eight.

So Right.

So Uh it names Cowardly. I'm sorry, what? It says the cowardly They get cast into the lake of fire.

Okay.

So what does that mean? The cowardly, I guess it would mean in the context of those who are. Fearful. Who aren't trusting in the Lord, who bend to fear, not trusting in Him. Because it it labels them with the unbelieving and the abominable.

So uh it's uh those who are living fearfully. and who are also unbelievers, murderers, immoral people. Yeah, that's what it is.

Okay.

So, um When the mark comes, I got a choice. I take the mark. or I run for my life. With no resources, I can't buy or sell anything anymore. I gotta go hide some place or something.

Right. Or I have to Take the mark. Yeah, that's what it comes down to, yes. Mm-hmm. Well, I was just thinking about it.

It's he's important to understand, so I called you. I tried to reach my attachment, but he's he's really busy.

Sorry. I apologize, I I missed my uh cough button. Can you repeat that last bit?

Well, I tried to reach my pastor about this subject, but he was pretty busy.

So I called you instead. Yeah, so in the issue of the bark of the beast, yeah, we are supposed to not take it, even if it costs us our life. And that's just how it is. A lot of people say, well, pre-tribulation rapture goes. Yeah.

And then starving to death. What kind of choice is that? It's a bad one. just like the people who uh For example, when the Romans were persecuting the Christians, they would strip them naked and say, Walk out on that frozen lake. And then they said, if you deny Christ, you come back in and we'll keep you warm and you can.

You can be clothed, or you can freeze to death out there. What a choice. Or the people who were put in pens with lions. and eaten in destroyed. or the people who were burned at the stake.

These are all kinds of choices that people have had to face throughout the centuries and didn't deny their faith.

So, you've read over Fox's Book of Martyrs? Yeah, I read it. It's a very important book. People should read it. Yeah.

And well, that's one of the reasons why I talked to you.

Okay.

Um well, it just seemed important that at the time Right now. Yeah. I mean, I let courage. Those who are not strong in the faith, those who bend to the issue of fear. and don't trust in Christ.

were afraid more of of being persecuted than they are um of serving him. Yeah, it's cowardly.

Okay.

Well Yeah. I thought it was one thing dollars saved. Isn't that what they say? Yeah, but the manifestation of of what you are will be there. he may have fested.

That's all.

So, what are you going to do? What are you going to do when it's time to trust in Christ? If someone holds a weapon to your head and does deny Christ or pull the trigger, what are you going to do? You know, these are serious questions that people need to face and need to answer now. And not look.

To the idea of pre-tribulation rapture getting you out of here. That's going to be a dangerous thought. It's a dangerous doctrine in that respect.

Okay.

But we all hope that would happen. We'll hope what? We hope that we would escape the time where we were tempted in that way. I certainly hope it. I don't want to be tempted.

I don't want to be put in that position. I don't want to. And many I don't know of any Christian who wanted to be put in a situation like that. you know, when uh the Catholic Church was coming through and tying up, I can't even repeat what they were doing to people. Over the air, but they were going to the people who left the Catholic Church and who were Protestants and then tying them up and doing.

uh really bad things to families. I can't even repeat it. And what did they do? They did not deny their Lord.

Now, here's one story I can tell you, though. I remember it was a really interesting story. I forgot the name of the man. He was a Catholic who became a Christian. Receive the true Christ and the true gospel, not the false gospel of Catholicism.

And the Catholics at the end, this is back in the Inquisition time, they persecuted him. He renounced his conversion to Protestantism and then rejoined the Catholic Church. and the conviction upon his heart was so bad, that he renounced the Catholic Church and went back to being Protestant. And so they arrested him and uh We're gonna they tried him, we're gonna take him to the to the uh the fire. Burn him at the stake.

And as he walked he asked them for one thing. and that was to set his right hand free, because he wanted to put it into the fire. Because that was the hand that signed the document recanting. and joining the Catholic Church. and he s and he burned his hand off.

in front of everybody, and said, May it be done to the hand that betrayed my Lord And then they put him in the fire and he was burned to death.

Okay.

Buriant of death, it seems like the the worst possible death. There are worse deaths than that. Crucifixion is worse. But um Well what about the rack? The rack sounds pretty terrible.

they are all pretty bad. They're bad. The crucifixion is supposed to be one of the worst. It's people don't realize what happens to the body. I did a study on it a while back.

when the uh nails go through the wrists, not through the palms, through the wrists, they it severs a certain nerve which causes the the ha the hands to feel like they're on fire. And um then they're the the uh and and when they put the bo the the crossbeam up there, the uh weight of the body uh rips the uh sockets of the elbows um and shoulders out. Because of the, it's called a vector force. I get into that, but I won't explain it now. And it rips them and tears them.

And then in order to breathe uh he has to press up on the nails in his feet. for every breath. And this goes on as slow suffocation occurs.

So uh that's just part of what happens crucifixion, you know.

So what do I do now? It's the time this happens to be here now. What do I do? You pray that God would strengthen you, and that's why I tell people they need to prep now. Because uh Britain is basically lost to the dystopian leftist uh commie agenda with the Muslims coming in and and um and overbreeding and taking over the the the place and and Christians being jailed for saying things that are biblical.

Uh And then now they're promoting the idea. Talking about the mark, Mark. Yes, I guess. And they're talking now. They're talking about getting a digital ID that you can't work, buy, or sell in Britain without this.

And this is just a precursor to the Mark. Yeah. He probably is. And that's why I would say you need to prep wherever you are. And stuff like that.

People say, no, we'll get pre-triple. Yeah. What if I found out a way Scientifically speaking. To leave Earth. and enter heaven some other way.

Okay.

than dying. Um that doesn't sound right, does it? That's an intriguing question. uh which I would say is not possible. But um I I think that you totally let's just say it's hypothetical situations.

scientific um what do you call it, science fiction.

Okay? Let's just say scientif science fiction And somehow in the swipe, I could go up there some other way and escape this place. Mm-hmm. No. No.

doesn't work like that okay so you need to be concerned It says that someone Let me just get a word in edgewise. You're wrong. It doesn't work like that. You need to focus on your relationship with Christ now. Yeah, that's what you gotta do.

All right.

Okay.

So now let's get to Eric from Virginia. Eric, welcome. You are on the air. Awesome. Hey, Matt.

Hope all is well. Condolences for your wife very much. I know that that's tough. But God bless you. And I just had a question for you.

I just wanted to kind of get your take on what's going on in Israel in regards to Gaza and the West Bank and kind of what your take is. in regards from the Christian perspective, in regards to I guess spreading the gospel.

Well, the Christian perspective for spreading the gospel is we're supposed to.

So that's that we do it wherever we can. That's the goal. And But if you're talking about uh Palestine and Israel, that's what you wanna get in on? Yeah, yes.

Well, Palestine is a very good idea. both sides as far as we need to support Israel or they're against Israel, but I never hear Well, this we want the gospel for both Jews and Muslims.

So that's kind of like the perspective I'm coming with. I just never hear that. when I when many Christians will debate and argue about Israel and the Palestinians. Then you'll have to ask them why they're not saying that. Yeah.

But uh the issue of the Palestine-Israel thing is such a hot topic. A lot of people are misinformed about it. And what Christianship do you mean? But as far as evangelism goes, yeah, the Muslims need the gospel. I tell the gospel to the Muslims regularly.

And in fact, in my opening statement, I'll be to debate in Dallas. In February against the Muslim, and in my opening statement, the last paragraph contains the gospel.

So they need to hear that gospel, of course, and the Jews do too. Yeah. Okay.

Okay.

All right, awesome. Cool.

Well, thank you, sir. Really enjoy all the work that you do. Thank you so much. Thank you very much, or God bless. Yep.

All right, folks. Hey, we have nobody waiting. If you want to give me a call, it is easy. 877-20-72276. Be right back after.

These messages please stay tuned. Uh It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Alright everybody, welcome back to the show. I think I'm gonna do something here.

I'm gonna step on some toes on purpose. And the goal is to shake you up and get you to... To examine the Word of God. The pre-tribulation rapture view, which is within orthodoxy, I think is potentially very dangerous in that too many Christians, in my opinion, are putting their hopes in it. and not worrying about the things they need to be prepping for now.

And I'm not saying all the people are doing that, and I'm not saying anybody who believes in it is wrong. or uh you know just be that that demanding about it. But But don't put your hope in it. Do not put your hope in it. Put your hope in the Lord Jesus Christ, not escaping.

Put your hope in the Lord Jesus Christ, that though you may go through trials and tribulations, that your eyes are on Him through it. And the trials and tribulations you're going through now are going to prep you for the ones later on. And you have to understand something. God has let thousands upon thousands and thousands of Christians experience great persecution. Great difficulty.

being crucified, being burned alive, starved to death. being chained to decaying bodies. until both are uh just a a mass of of death. Uh Z I can't even tell you some of the things I know about that have been done to Christians. But uh the evil that is there.

is uh is alive and well on the earth. And even though I know post-millennialists think things are getting better, I don't believe so. I believe that when God said to Adam, In Genesis 2:17, the day you eat of the fruit, you're going to die. I believe that. That he was speaking not only to Adam, but to all mankind, that the wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23, and that we are going to bring ourselves to death.

That's why Jesus says in Matthew 24, I think it's verse 22, if those days be or 14, if those days be not cut short, no flesh would be left. And this is what he says before the return of Christ. And so that's depressing. And a view of eschatology, which I now call depreschatology.

Somebody coined that term, I adopted it, love that term. And I pray that the preaching relational rapture is true. I hope I'm wrong, but don't put your hope in it. And get out there. Prep.

Be ready. Be ready in your faith, be ready with food and water. Just be prep. It's biblical to do that. Don't go crazy.

Just be ready. Have three or six months of supplies. That's just a good thing to do for your family. You already should be doing that. And just be ready spiritually to stand strong for the Lord Jesus Christ and pray that should a persecution come, that you would stand strong because of His grace.

not because of your strength, but because of his in you. And this is what I urge people to do. Hopefully, if it ever occurs to me, I'll do the same thing. I'll do what's right. And that's one thing I I I I I learned from a professor in school.

When someone asked him on that day if you were being tortured to death or whatever, and you know put a gun to your head. And deny the faith, what would you say? And he said, Well, if I deny Christ, it's because of my sin, and if I don't deny him, it's because of his grace. And I thought that was a great answer. And so just pray that God's grace and empowering would be with you during all these times and difficulties.

All right, let's get to Alberto. From Georgia. Alberto, welcome. You're on the air. Good evening, Master League.

I got several questions. You think that AI can bend a a a gadget you that you can wear?

So we go on debates. You send the signal to opposite. person to cut off their vocal sounds.

So now when they try to interrupt you, nothing comes out out of their mouth.

Well, that would be a good idea.

Now Okay.

Okay.

So much. I know you believe in post trip? how do you balance these two verses? The Bible says that the the church is dressed with white linen. You know, the white men churches.

And those who go to a great tribulation are just a white rose. What's the difference between that verse and the churches versus white men? It means that they are sanctified in Christ and justified in Christ. That's what that means. It doesn't mean you're not persecution.

Yeah. So that means the pre-trib is true, and I know you read on post-trip, but if you read on verses, that means the church. Those in a white robe are not going to a retro religion. No, no, a white robe. No, no, hold on, hold on.

A white robe doesn't mean you're not going to persecution. It means that you've been covered by the blood of Christ. A white robe was a symbol of purity. And so we are pure in Christ because of His righteousness. That's all that means.

Okay? So doesn't mean that those who are going through a great tribulation period are the ones who get some right role. And the church is just where white linen is for the preacher. It doesn't mean that at all. A robe would be made of linen.

It's just different words, okay, using the basic of the same phenomena. That's all.

Okay, got another quick question. Sure. How do you think about the the Muslims are using the opposite party?

So in other words, the the enemy is my enemy is my friend.

So you but the capacity go here. The Muslims vote for the for the left. They vote for Democrats. I know that. You know why?

Because they vote they want Democrats in power because the Democrats are the ones who are going to destroy this country and help them bring it to its knees. That's why they vote with it for the Dem uh Democratic Yeah, it's all it's known. them uh Muslims do that.

Okay.

Muslims.

Okay, I know last time we discussed about the Muslim Mary Muslim. Are you correct? I thought I think about it. Marrying a Muslim is different from marrying an Ara Arab.

So are you correct on that? Not Arabs are Muslims. Yeah, not all Arabs are Muslims.

Some Arabs are Christians. Uh-huh.

Okay.

Okay, I agree. I agree with you, Sam.

So I'm thinking about it while back.

Okay.

Thank you. I love that. All right, God bless. Bye-bye. All right.

Well, hey, let's get to Linda from North Carolina. Linda, welcome. You're on the air. Thank you, Matt. I'm a long time listener.

Um I'll be very brief. I was listening to the gentleman who called concerning Christians being on earth. when the rapture occurs. And I know what, you know, the gospel is, and as you said, There are things that are nonnegotiable And that if you're a Christian, there's Basic tenets. And I'm aware of what's open.

Then it's R. And my question is For the devout Christians Cool. Do not believe that they will be here. that they do believe they will be raptured up. I understand your concerns about them having that belief, but will their belief in that based on what they seem to find in scripture, Will that keep them out of heaven because they believe No, not at all.

Not at all. Yeah. Uh just checking Um And the gentleman that called um Pardon me. The gentleman that called, I Just felt Um just through the airwaves almost. That Even though he's a Christian, He was Tortured in his mind, and I think he continues.

To be fearful, and I'm sure he'll do what you ask, which is. to trust in the Lord. But I could tell that he was um Just taken over. With Extreme fear. uh at the prospects And he was visualizing all of the things that would happened to him.

That's right. We gotta break. Can you hold on? We gotta break, okay?

Sorry. Interrupt you. Sure, I'll hold. Yes, sir. All right, so hey ladies and gentlemen, if you want to give me a call, the number is 877.

207-2276. We have three open lines. Give me a call. I'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it is easy. Just L 877-2072276. Let's get back on with Linda.

Linda, you still there? Yes, sir. So continuing on with the gentleman, and I'm sure many people too, who concentrate or who start dwelling on the torches, whereas they should be pre prepared in prayer to have strength. I just um Caution these people who are Uh getting so fearful that they're thinking of scientific ways there must be a way to actually Escape when maybe there will not be. But then my final question, and I don't find anything in Scripture.

that answers this for me. Or is When the time comes, I feel That Christ. will give the Christian the power and the strength. They talk of the peace of Jesus.

Well, I feel there's also the power of Jesus.

So those people remaining to endure Whatever is here. for us to endure I feel that at that at those final moments or I'm asking you Is it possible that in those final uh horrible moments that people do find The strength of the state. the unbelievable stretch to make the right choice. Yes, when you say possible, then the answer has to be yes, it's possible, because God in His graciousness can do that. and we would only hope that that is the case.

So he gives us what we need when we need it. and Christians throughout the centuries have uh died horrible deaths. at the hands of evil people. and their entry into heaven is all the more glorious. and the reward before God Yeah.

And that's not why we want to do things just simply for reward, but these are some of the effects. Even though the evil seek to destroy the Christians, they don't realize they're. they are assisting and an eternal blessing for them.

So God uses even evil for the greater blessing of people. We have to go through some terrible stuff sometimes. and you know pain and suffering that we all go through. And that's just what it is. We have to endure it and we move forward.

Okay.

Thank you, Matt. No problem at all. Yeah. Good night. Thank you.

All right.

Okay, well Um two weeks ago my wife passed away. Today's my uh 69th birthday. One more year and I'm seventy. You know, going through tribulations and trials and various things that are difficult in our lives. A lot of people are experiencing these out there.

I know that a lot of you. Out there are Are really under a lot of duress, a lot of strain, and you see that there's no one there to help. I get it. I understand. I just want to lift up uh all your needs.

And just ask that what you would do. is lift them to God. Lift them to Him. Lift them to the Lord Jesus Christ. and ask him to deliver, ask him to work through these things.

and trust as much as you can. It doesn't mean that you're always going to be delivered.

Sometimes we have to go through some things that are so bad. It's just what it is sometimes. But we have to trust him. and live for him. It's not easy, but that's what we need to do.

Now um With the issue of the tribulation and rapture and stuff kind of came up here. What I want to do is just go through a little bit of Matthew 24, which I've done before. And I think that's a good idea. You know, I mean, I would say this, the older I get, The more Solid, I am, and the need to simply speak truth. As best I understand truth, I'm not saying I have all truth, I'm not saying that.

But uh The idea of speaking with the truth of God's word is without remorse. to be confident. And That's what I want to say: is you know, what I teach a lot of times. Is not popular. What's popular Are the churches where everything is comfortable, the music's wonderful?

And You get a good feel-good message. And then you go and get served at a restaurant on that Sunday. Uh what I teach is biblical theology.

So if it's really easier to to understand, so if it's more difficult.

Some of the things are easy to implement in our lives, and others are not. And this is just the nature of the Christian revelation that God has given us in the scriptures in the Old and New Testament. If you were to go through the Old Testament, you'd see that the believers in God suffered greatly. And that they were also blessed greatly. We have been blessed immensely in this country.

as Christians. We have freedom of religion, we have freedom of expression. even though the fringes of those freedoms are are framed because of the leftist agenda. the and which ultimately is demonic. Then we have to understand that the respite of history that we've had in this period of time is because of the grace of God and those who came before us generations earlier, who laid the foundation of this country on biblical principles, and they did.

And there's a whole other uh study on that as well. When the Presbyterians came over to this country and they asked the pastors to develop a governmental system based on scripture, a lot of it was developed very quickly and was integrated into the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence, and things like this.

So when you read through those things, if you know any biblical theology, you'll go, whoa, I see it, I see what they're saying here, and why. But I digress just a bit. What does the Bible say? What does Jesus say that's going to happen? Is it a pre-tribulation rapture?

Well, let me just kind of put that to rest. I want to say definitely not. And if you think I'm wrong, I hope I'm wrong. I really do. That's a sincere statement.

I don't want to go through it. I don't like pain, don't like suffering, don't like running, don't like any of that. I want to be comfortable and then get raptured at the last second. That's what I want. What does God want?

That's different. Different than what I want. He's never taken my suggestions.

So let me go through what Jesus says. He said, uh when he came out of the temple in Matthew twenty-four uh I'm gonna go through this quickly. He said the temple will be destroyed. And uh there's my brother Colin. And um So, uh And they asked him: when are these things going to happen?

The stones all being torn down, the temple being torn down, etc. And he asked in verse 3 of Matthew 24. When will these things happen? What will be the sign of your coming? It's one return of Christ, okay, and the end of the age.

Now, I'm not going to get into this too much. But I'm going to read you some stuff and I want you to focus on on what Jesus said. He says that there will be those who say that they are the Christ. There'll be wars and rumors of wars, there'll be famines and earthquakes. Many will fall away from the faith.

They'll hate one another. There'll be false prophets. They'll arise, mislead many. Uh lawlessness will increase, uh people's love will go cold. And uh The gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations.

and then the involved one. Therefore, when you see the abomination of desolation in verse 15, spoken of through Daniel, watch out for it. He says in verse 22, which I think is really critical, unless those days be cut short, No life. would be saved. no life.

And uh the word in Greek is sarx. And it means life. It's exactly what it means. Human life. Here's what we're talking about in the context.

No life would be saved if those days are not cut short. Why? Because it's gonna get bad. But for the sake of the elect, Those days will be cut short. For the elect, the ones chosen for salvation.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 says that. and uh also features one, four, and five. And he says, just as lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west.

So uh will come in the Son of Man be. He says false Christ will arise. They will show great signs and wonders. to mislead if possible. even the elect.

Those are gonna be great deception. This is why it's so necessary for you to study your doctrine. Doesn't mean you have to have a You know, a big notebook and thick glasses, and uh, you can uh, you know, memorize 8,000 verses. That's not what it means. But you know the basics and you know what to watch out for.

And that's what you need to know. You should know that, okay?

So that you aren't deceived by false prophets like Mormonism, Joseph Smith, or Charles Tays Russell, or. Muhammad, or the false gospels of Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, and things like that. Uh that uh because the Bible says Jesus says these things are coming. Anyway, he says as the lightning comes from the east and flashes of the west, so will come in the son of man be.

Now, he's talked about all these things. When you see these things, when you're there, the abomination of desolation.

Now, most people think that's the issue of the Antichrist and the rebuilt temple. When you see this, verse 29 says, but immediately after the tribulation of those days. The sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all of the tribes of the earth will mourn, and will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds With in the sky, with power and great glory, and he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet. This is the rapture.

And he'll gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of the sky to the other. When does it occur? after the tribulation of those days. That's what Jesus says. Matthew 24, 29-31.

That's what he says.

So That's what you need to believe. It's right there in, in this case, red and white. I'm Matthew 24. There you go. I hope that wasn't too difficult.

May the Lord bless you. Be right back after this message. Just want to give me a call. 877207220. 7-6 be right now.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show, the last segment of the hour on this nice December 9th. And if you want, give me a call, 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you.

Give me a call. And let's get to Carl from. North Carolina, Carl, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, ma'am.

Hey, my condolences go out to you to your loss of your wife. And I appreciate your ministry. Um I have a a question on um when you talk about the priesthood in um Machizelvik. in Genesis, and they bring it up again in Hebrews When they were talking about it in Genesis, is that a like a Christophany or What is that that priest that they're talking about? Um Some say it's a Christophany, but I don't believe it is.

That's just my opinion. I just don't think it is. Uh I think it's a real person, and he was so lofty in his work. and in his uh priesthood. That it was steadily without generation, without this, without that, it's like saying the majestic great one who can vanquish a thousand armies.

It's this kind of a statement. And that's what I believe it is.

Now, hope ma'am. I'm you know, I could be wrong. That's what I think. The typological representation is forwarded into Hebrews as the Jesus Christ, Hebrews 6:27:25, he's the high priest after the order of Melchizedek.

So that's what I think anyway, you know, okay.

So you think it was an actual person then in in what they're saying about in Genesis of that priesthood? Yep, that's my opinion. And again, I'm not saying I'm right, just my opinion. I think it's what it is.

Okay, great. All right, appreciate you. God bless.

Okay, thanks. Bye-bye. Why? Yeah, and I could be wrong uh on that, ladies and gentlemen. It's just just what I I hold to and uh Yeah.

We'll find out. Let's get to Cole from Georgia. Cole, welcome. You're on the air. Hello.

Hi.

So what do you got? Hello? Yeah. You have a question? Are you there?

Okay.

Let's try it again. Cole, are you there? Hey, Matt, how you doing? I'm hanging in there, brother, hanging in there.

So so what do you got? I got a question. When Jesus was baptized by John. You're familiar with that. Yes, quite familiar with it.

Yes, he was fulfilling the Levitical priesthood requirements of entering into the priesthood after order of Melchizedek as prophesied in Leviticus 8, Numbers 4, and Exodus 29, which is why he was sprinkled. Yeah. Yeah, but Matt, you gotta take into consideration. What? He came, it says he came up out of the water.

So if he was being sprinkled, why was he down in the water?

Well, uh th you could be in the water up to your knees. And and you're said to be in the water. And also, if you go to Acts chapter 8, the last few verses of Acts chapter 8, the Ethiopian eunuch. uh and Philip. They both went into the water.

Verse 38. They both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized them. Were they both immersed? and says when they came up out of the water, does that mean that Philip was immersed with them? Of course not.

Okay.

Yeah, but it doesn't matter. Yes, it does. I mean, if you why would you go in the water to get splinkled? That doesn't make a lot of sense and you're a scholar. Yeah.

Well, it could be uh poor also. Uh mathematically, it doesn't make sense to uh think that you can take care of three thousand people in the upper room uh very easily and and hundreds and hundreds and thousands and thousands and thousands of houses. Many thousands of people that John the Baptist would have been baptizing. But Jesus says in Matthew 3:15, the reason he was getting baptized was to fulfill. righteousness.

That's Old Testament law. I did a very in-depth study. on this and I looked at the word water In every instance, I looked at every single one of them, dealing with the issue of the priesthood, the Old Testament cleansing rights of the priest, and the whole bit. Never. was it mentioning that they were immersed.

They were sprinkled. And that's what Jesus had to fulfill that law. And Numbers 8:7 talks about the priest having to have water applied to him. And that's another thing. A lot of people don't understand that.

That blood is applied to the doorposts, blood is applied to the person, oil is applied to the person. You're anointed with oil. You're sprinkled with water. And this is the idea of being baptized with water. I know that the popular view is that baptism means immersion, it does not.

It can, but I can show you many places in the Bible where it does not. But it absolutely cannot.

Okay, okay. I got one last thing on that. One last thing. If you can answer this, and then I'll leave you along with it. That's all right.

Okay.

In the instance that they were sprinkled in the Old Testament, Were they in water or land? We have to understand what the context was. I'd have to understand which verse you're talking about. Different things happen at different times.

Well, you no, you said that they were sprinkled in the Old Testament Leviticus Covenant.

Now, were they on land or were they in in the water? On land, I said that the priests, the Jesus and John. Hold on, hold on. The Bible says. He came to fulfill righteousness.

He to fulfil the law. That's what we had to do. Part of the law requirement for entering into the priesthood was to be sprinkled with water. Number chapter eight That's what it says. If Jesus came to fulfill the law in those three chapters, Matthew, in Luke, Iscami.

Um Leviticus 8. Numbers 4, Exodus 29, in those chapters, you'll see, in order to be a priest, you had to be 30 years of age. Jesus was 30. A verbal blessing given. I beloved a son whom I am well pleased.

Okay.

A nun with oil. Ask the Holy Spirit to sprinkled with water. This is the law. This is what the law says. You can say it makes sense or doesn't make sense, that that's what the Bible says.

So I I challenge anybody. Politely, maybe they see something I don't see, and that's fine. I'm open to being corrected. But I would just politely challenge someone to go to the Old Testament and see what Jesus was fulfilling. And in his baptism.

I mean, I understand what you're saying, but I believe Jesus came up out of the water when it said it literally meant it. I believe he was immersed when it because it says he came up out of the water, and then the voice from the father said, This is my son in whom I'm pleased.

Okay.

So but hold on, let me ask you, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, let me ask you. You say to come up out of the water means he had to be immersed. Then it means that Philip. in Acts chapter 8 38 through 40 Philip and the eunuch were were in the water. They both came up out of the water, so were they both immersed in water.

Well, he Philip had to dump him. Here's my question. Here's my question. Here's my question. Hey, hold on.

Cole. Hold on. Wa was Philip immersed? That's the question. That's the question.

No. Yes or no? Ethiopia was emerged.

Okay, hold on, hold on.

Okay, the answer is: hold on, stop, stop, stop, stop. The answer is: no, he wasn't.

Okay, so this proves then that the phrase, come up out of the water, does not understand. You can't answer that. You can't.

Okay, we're moving along. He's not going to listen. And uh Uh he's two uh folks look The Bible says, okay, that they both came up out of the water. Philip was not immersed, he was doing the baptizing.

So the phrase, come up out of the water, does not prove that it's immersion. That's all I'm saying. And so you can't make the case that they both were immersed, and you can't prove from Scripture that Jesus was immersed. I'm sorry, you can't. You can assume that baptism always means immersion.

It doesn't. I can show you many verses where it does not. And if he was to fulfill Levitical law in order to end that priesthood, which is Leviticus, was a type of Levitical law, it was a type of. with a little bit of preset, I should say, is a type of uh of true priesthood. Then I just say to people, go look in the Bible, go look for the word water and see how it's applied to the priest.

Did they were they immersed in the water? If they were, I'd say Jesus was immersed, no problem. But it says, nope, sprinkle him with water.

Okay, so Jesus was sprinkled according to the law, because he said he came to fulfill righteousness. That's all it is.

Okay.

All right, let's get to Michael from Arizona. Michael, welcome. You're on the air. Okay.

Hey, Matt. Okay.

Michael and Jan from Phoenix. Oh, hey, how are you guys doing? We're doing good. Yeah. Looks good.

We're gonna really miss those uh late night conversations with you and Anik. Yep. Um Yeah. Yeah, it happened suddenly. Uh within 24 hours.

She was uh On life support. Yeah. from walking to life support. And uh So, but um yeah, we we enjoyed the uh conversations uh you know that we had with you guys and this little Cobbles were great. Yeah.

Don't give us a call, okay?

Okay.

You need to text me all your information. I got a lot of contacts, a lot of stuff, and so many people have texted me that everything's pushed down and out. I have to make sure everything I have everybody's numbers and everything. Yeah, I've had basically hundreds of texts. in the past two weeks.

Okay.

Yeah, but Um Go ahead. Yes, I'm sixty-nine years old today. Yeah. I know, an ancient.

Well I'm almost as ancient as my friend Charlie Spine. Charlie knew not personally. In fact, Charlie looks like Noah a little bit. He does. Yes, he does.

That's right. Got gray hair. He's that nice. Yeah, he's a good guy. And he had to put up with me the first few days after my wife's passing.

I was not doing well. He's nodding his head, but he loves me anyway. It was really rough. Wow. And thanks to all those.

I appreciate that. In fact, I just want to say thank you for all who were supportive and praying all over the country, all over the world. Um I feel kind of guilty because I have the privilege of being able to say this over the radio. And so many people who've suffered silently have no outlet like this, and my heart breaks for them for that reason as well. But God knows, and God knows what suffering is.

And. And we just praise God that my wife's with him. and no longer in a great pain. Yeah. Yeah.

Dumps.

Well, God bless you. She was a good woman, except for her taste in men. She was awesome. That's right. Yeah, I've spilled that line from you a few times.

That's right. You guys are still welcome to come up and see me sometime too, all right? Oh wow. And Um You said you were talking about coming over here to Arizona. You still going to do that?

Or? I don't know. If someone invites me down to speak someplace, you know, I'll go down there. But. Things like that, but just you know, I'm sitting close to home for a while.

I get to go to a debate in February, Dallas. Uh and that's all prepped and um you know For months, so I'll be doing that, but you know, okay. It's all right and While you don't have our prayers, we're praying deeply for you. Thanks. I certainly need it.

I do appreciate that. Really tell. Right. You know, I know too that sometimes you It's really neat. Space.

Yeah. You know Jan and I have been through You know. losing our first born son, like you lost Jacob and Yep. and also our our daughter. You know, I'm sorry.

I gotta tell you, we we got ten seconds on the show.

Sorry, man.

Well, we'll talk to you soon. And happy birthday and blessing. Math.

Okay, and God bless you too. And God bless everybody who's been praying. All who are suffering for various things. silently. And the Lord bless you.

All right, hey folks, we're out of here. May the Lord bless you and maybe we'll get to see from Utah tomorrow. and call you back then. May the Lord bless you out of here. Have a great evening.

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