China Ready to Mount “Full-Scale” Invasion of Taiwan

This is Jay Sekulow. Is China ready to mount a full-scale invasion of Taiwan? Keeping you informed and engaged, now more than ever, this is Sekulow. Taiwan's President is now vowing to defend its democracy against an aggressive China. We want to hear from you.

Share and post your comments or call 1-800-684-3110. The President's published an essay in Foreign Affairs magazine and in it she warns of catastrophic consequences if the island were to fall to China. She says this would mean authoritarians have the upper hand over democracy and she adds that while Taiwan doesn't seek confrontation it would do whatever it takes to defend itself. And now your host Jay Sekulow. So we'll go back to him in just a moment here. Welcome to Sekulow.

Phone lines are open at 1-800-684-3110, 1-800-684-3110. Again, we are talking about the topic today which is the ongoing situation in China as reports are coming in that China could be mounting a full-scale invasion of Taiwan in the coming years. And Wes, you just wrote a piece that's available on ACLJ.org. Right, right. It should go up very shortly. Yeah, yeah, there are several things happening. Of course, the Chinese media is promoting this idea based in some facts that the U.S. is in decline. They have warned our allies writ large that they cannot depend on us to protect them and they're using Afghanistan and Vietnam as examples of that.

So while they're increasing their rhetoric about Taiwan, President Xi has also said that the ultimate, not the ultimate goal, the ultimate result, he says, will be that Taiwan will be incorporated into China by force if necessary, he says. And while all this is going on, we have all of these flights of Chinese fighter aircraft and bombers into Taiwan's airspace. 145 flights in the last four days.

750 flights into the airspace this year. And so the sabers are being rattled. Taiwan is rightly concerned. And the United States, we support Taiwan.

We have ever since the revolution in China in the late 1940s, but we also have a very complicated and ambiguous relationship with them as well because we recognize the one China policy which says that the Chinese communists are one China. Right, so it's kind of a mess. We do have my dad who is joining us. I also want to let you know that if you're watching news, I'm sure you're seeing that there's currently a, when we're recording this, active shooter in Texas at a high school. I just wanted to know that our prayers are out for that. We're monitoring it. Not a whole lot we can do when it comes to coverage. We'll let you know that we're aware that we are live right now. I know some people will watch and hear that the topic is different than what the major news sources are covering and they're curious if we are live. We are live and we will be monitoring that as we do. We got two minutes left.

I think we got my dad back. Yeah, so I want to follow up on what Wes said because I think this is really where you kind of got to focus on this and that would be take a look over the last year during 2020. What type of actions were, as far as flights go, were the Chinese Communist Party taking over Taiwan? I mean, were they doing it then? And I think the answer is no. They weren't doing it then and I don't, we'll get the numbers. I'm sure they're available, but they are definitely saber-rattling, but the problem is the United States is not as leading from behind again. This is, and I won't even call that leading, this is exactly what President Obama wanted.

Those same people are now been promoted in the Biden administration, so what do you expect that you're gonna get? But we have to look at concrete ways in which the American people will respond. That includes Congress. I mean, nobody wants a war in Asia. I mean, obviously that would be a disaster and China is a huge trading partner of the United States, so I'm gonna get Professor Hutchinson's thoughts on that. So when we come back from the break, we're gonna get into all of this, but this affects everybody that's watching this broadcast right now. You are impacted by what happens with China.

That's right. A lot of what you buy is out of China. A lot of what you buy, a lot of media you consume, a lot of things happen in China. There's a lot of stuff happening. Obviously, we're going to keep you engaged in covering this topic, which I think is a very important one for the American people to not only hear, but to understand. We do have, obviously, lines open right now. 1-800-684-3110. 1-800-684-3110. We're gonna be discussing all of this situation in China, how it's gonna impact America, and also, again, we are covering the shooter situation happening at Texas High School. We'll keep you updated with anything that needs to be said on that, or you can find it under local coverage.

We'll be right back with more on Secula. Once again, 1-800-684-3110 to call. The challenges facing Americans are substantial. At a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack, it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights, in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena.

And we have an exceptional track record of success. But here's the bottom line, we could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms. That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side.

If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life changing work. Become a member today, ACLJ.org.

Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected, is there any hope for that culture to survive? And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, Planned Parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. Welcome back to Secula. We are joined by my dad from being remote. We also have Colonel Wes Smith and Harry Hutchinson in studio. In the next segment we'll have on Rick Grenellis. Other panelists will be joining us throughout the show, currently talking about the situation in China and what it means and what you need to know as the American citizens on its potential invasion of Taiwan. Again, I did want to also say that we are covering what's going on in Texas right now, which is an active shooter in a Texas high school. We will update you as necessary. I would encourage you that if you are in that area and you want the most up-to-date coverage of that, to probably find another source. And not that I want to tell people to turn off our show, but we don't have that information on hand. We'll just be reporting what we hear on the news.

So if you are looking for something more specific on that, I encourage you to find another source. We are talking today though about China and there is a new piece about to go up on ACLJ.org. Dad from Colonel Wes Smith is sitting right here because I think people hear China, you know, it's one of those threats that you kind of hear in the political season. Maybe we don't think about it as much because, like you said, you get a lot of things from China. There's a lot of deals with China. China is always happening. The movies that you see, how a lot of movie studios are coming out with movies straight from China.

It's just part of our culture at some point. Yeah, I'll tell you where I'm gonna, and I want to talk to Professor Hutchinson on this. If there's an attack on Taiwan, which would be, and we have agreements with them, but they're not full defense agreements.

First of all, let me ask Colonel Smith that first. So we have agreements with Taiwan, but does it include us sending military troops if they were invaded by China? Because you're talking about a global conflict at that point. Right, yeah, there is no agreement like that.

We have not really said one way or the other whether or not we would support them with military forces on the ground there. The relationship is one that is referred to as strategic ambiguity. Following President Nixon reaching out to China in the early 1970s, we adopted this one China policy per their request that there is one China, and that's the communist Chinese. But at the same time, in 1979, Congress passed the Taiwan Relations Act, which says that we will, we're obligated by law to arm Taiwan, to support them with military equipment and weapons.

And so this is the background. It's a very complicated ambiguous relationship. China, meanwhile, is saying, more so in the last year, that they will reunite Taiwan with their country, not that it's ever been a part of China, by force if necessary. Here's my question, though. Okay, so let's play this sound from the President's asked a question.

Let's go ahead and play that, Will. What's China's publication over Taiwan? Well, China has, I've spoken with Xi about Taiwan. We agree, we will abide by the Taiwan agreement, that's what we are, and we made it clear that I don't think he should be doing anything other than abiding by the agreement.

So Wes, again, back to you here. So when the President talks about abiding by the Taiwan agreement, what is China's obligation under that? They have none. That was a very curious statement. Yeah, that was not reassuring at all. Basically, what he just said was, you know, we are urging China not to attack, but we will abide by our agreement to give weapons to the Taiwanese.

Taiwan has 24 million people. They are, they are armed heavily because of us, but at the same time, there's no way they could succeed in a war with China, short of someone else helping them. But I want to be clear on what the President said. I'm reading from what he just said. He said he spoke to President Xi, and he said, and we made it clear that I don't think he should do anything other than abiding by the agreement. But he is not part of that agreement. The Chinese Communist Party did not sign on to that agreement, so there's nothing for him to abide by, which then raises the economic question.

And Professor Hutchinson, you've done law and economics, let's face it, we got to be real here. China and the United States trading is, it's probably still one of our biggest trading partners, if not the biggest. I think you're right, and so geopolitical events, they bleed into economics and to every arena in American life. So we should keep in mind that China is the leading supplier of medicine, drugs, to the American people.

I'm talking about legal drugs here. They're also a leading supplier of illegal drugs. In addition, we depend on China for cell phone technology and production. They purchase copious amounts of our debt.

We are right now witnessing a battle in Congress over whether or not to raise the debt ceiling. And I think at any moment in time, to the extent that it provides a strategic advantage to China, they could decide to pull the plug on our economy. And so one of the things that our listeners should keep in mind is that China and many of our opponents in the world, they are playing a very long strategic game.

And they are not prepared to accept no for an answer. And I think listening to President Biden speak, I believe it was yesterday, there's no reason why China should be deterred from taking action that they see in their own interest. After all, China has witnessed the American surrender in Afghanistan. After all, China has witnessed the fact that we have given up protecting the sovereignty of this nation with respect to our southern border. And after all, we are playing a game with terrorist regimes in the Middle East and we're prepared, apparently, to cave to Iran. So if you look at all of this from a Chinese government perspective, this is increasingly a ripe time to test the will of the Biden administration and to test the will of the American people.

And Taiwan, I think, could be a part of a perfect storm. Logan, I don't know if we have any updates on that. I just got a note from Will. I don't know if there's an update on the situation in Texas. Like I said, we can't cover it in detail because obviously we're not, we don't have resources down there.

Will just sent me a note. Did something develop? I don't think there's been much other than they've confirmed that multiple people have been shot. There's obviously medical teams and they have put out a statement saying they're setting up an area to reunite with your children if you are there locally. And yeah, there's a lot of that happening. We're following it again, as I've said, and not to encourage people to not listen to our show. Obviously you should.

This is a very important topic, but if you are local and you need immediate answers, find it on your local products. We don't have, like you said, the people on the ground. We're not a news show in that sense, but they're currently setting up a reunification point at the Mansfield Center for the Performing Arts, so we'll cover that as needed.

But again, that's if you don't know what's happening, there is a looks like a school shooting that's happening currently in Texas or has just happened in a high school. So obviously our prayers and we'll keep our updates coming for that. But we did want to keep on this topic. We do have a call and I think we should go ahead and take it. Let's go to Barry who's calling in Virginia online too. Barry's got an interesting question for us. Hey, Barry. Yes, hello.

Yes, you're on the air. Okay, just wondering if the Chinese come in and invade and go into Taiwan, what's gonna be the repercussions for the United States with the Biden administration? What do you think is gonna happen there? I'm a former SEAL tutor, Vietnam, yet, and I'm just wondering what's gonna happen there.

We really appreciate your service. Look, it's hard to know exactly what they would do. I mean what they've said, and I think this, you know, is he wants to abide by the Taiwan agreement, but he wants the Chinese to abide by the Taiwan agreement, which they're not part of.

Let me go to Than Bennett up in Capitol Hill. So, Than, obviously, the whole topic of China is a lot of, there's a lot of discussion there. What is the sense on Capitol Hill right now on that? Well, people certainly agree with the assertion you made a few minutes ago that Chinese is important economically, Jay, but I think one of the areas where maybe this administration needs to be more honest with itself on its relations with China is the fact that they're also an adversary. I mean, look, there's no hiding the fact that China wants to be the world's next superpower, and you see them taking actions in multiple different ways to do that.

Certainly, economically, Professor Hutcheson touched on those. They're certainly guilty of all sorts of IP theft. Now you see the military maneuvers that they're taking, the threatening maneuvers towards Taiwan, and then certainly the response to COVID-19, Jay, I think could have been rooted in the idea that if they could get an advantage around the world, they would want to take that, and so I think you have to approach any issue with China, not just from the standpoint that they're economically important, but also that they can be an adversary, and I think when it comes to the to the Biden administration, the caller's question certainly is a good one.

What would we do if we got there? But I think the more important question for this moment, Jay, is how do you prevent it to getting there, and you know continuing to arm Taiwan according to the agreement is certainly a part of it, but you've also got to be tough economically. You've got to be willing to level the sanctions when they do engage in IP theft. You've got to hold them accountable for what happened after COVID-19.

This administration has not been willing to do that, and in this moment, Jay, I think it's actually those other efforts that hopefully would prevent a military conflict, because that's that's a place that where the rest of the world certainly doesn't want to be. No, I think, Dan, I think you're absolutely right, but I this guy does show, Logan, I'm going to pitch it back to you here to go to the break, but the ACLJ, because of your support of the ACLJ, we're involved in all these issues. We're not only putting up, you know, papers and giving real thought to this from experts on our own team, but we're dealing with it on Capitol Hill as well, and I want to encourage people then to support the work of the ACLJ. That's how we do all of this, and Logan, you could talk about that for a moment, but that is a part of how we do all of this.

Yeah, absolutely. Support the work of the ACLJ, and check out all the latest news, blogs, events we have going on at ACLJ.org. You can also find us on all social media platforms, either search for Jay Sekula or ACLJ. We are there on Facebook, on YouTube, on Instagram. If you find it, we're there talking about the important issues and keeping you informed and engaged. You can support the work of the ACLJ financially by going to ACLJ.org. Rick Grenell joins us in the next segment.

Be right back. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive, and that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support, and the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, playing Parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. The challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack. It's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena, and we have an exceptional track record of success. But here's the bottom line, we could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.

That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you, and if you're not, well this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today, ACLJ.org.

Welcome back to Secular. We're going to be joined shortly by Rick Grenell, one of our advisors, and I think we're having some connection difficulties. Let us know when he is up. But we are continuing the conversation on China, and phone lines are open at 1-800-684-3110. Currently, I did want to address, as I have at the top and the bottom of each of these segments, is if you are looking for information on the Texas high school shooting, I know there's a statement being made right now, we'll try to get information of what's going on, but we are currently not covering that as our full show, just because if you need that, you can find it on other sources that could provide better, more up-to-date coverage of that.

So if you're locally, or if you have questions about that, you find that probably on other outlets. But we are available right now to take your phone calls about the situation in China, because, I'll talk to Wes here. Wes, I think we think of China, for a lot of the normal Americans, you know, kind of, it exists, it's in the ether, we know that a lot of our electronics and a lot of everything is made in China, but we're not really considering the threats that potentially that could come from it in a global scale.

Yeah, there is a real threat here. The West, virtually all of the West, including the United States, is dependent on China for so much of what we use on a day-to-day basis, as well as our finances. And China, thus far, has not been made to pay a price for any of their misdeeds, whether it's human rights abuses, internet fraud, cyber attacks, theft of intellectual property, invading part of India, they have invaded about 27,000 square miles of India, the COVID lack of cooperation, the cover-ups, all of those things, they have been made to pay no real price.

Sanctions and warnings have little effect on China. Dad, I think we have now Rick joining us via phone, I think we had some issues with his video connection, but I'll let you take from here, Dad, where you want to lead this conversation. Yeah, so, well, of course, Rick was the, served as the Director of National Intelligence, and also an ambassador to Germany, and served at the UN for almost a decade. So, Rick, the situation with China, the rattling of sabers again, this time threatening Taiwan, we didn't hear, we didn't see a lot of saber-rattling during your administration with President Trump. What's your read on the situation, and also in that regard, the Chinese are really, you know, they're doing flyovers, and we, and we've talked about the economic trades and impact that we have with the Chinese, but how do you see that threat? I mean, we've talked about that before, but when you list world threats as the former Director of National Intelligence, where do you rank this?

Well, clearly, what I discovered is that there's a difference between a threat of military action and a credible threat of military action. When Donald Trump was President, he spoke to the Chinese pretty regularly, would confront them, whether it was about the Uyghurs or the currency manipulation. He was very clear with the Chinese that their behavior was the problem, and he dangled out with them a more close relationship if the behavior would change, and so they would have never done what they're doing now in Taiwan under a Trump administration.

Let's be very clear about that. This is a danger of having a President in Joe Biden who values consensus, who doesn't put America first, because the opposite of America first is consensus, and so what we're seeing now, whether it's the Russians, whether it's the Iranians, whether it's the North Koreans and now the Chinese, the Biden administration is being tested and their response so far has been very weak, which is only going to encourage more bad behavior from countries around the world. So Rick, when you look at a situation like this, and because we talked about the economic side of this, and let's be clear, most of the medicines we get come out of China.

So if the Chinese were to to invade Taiwan, which they're threatening to do, how does the U.S. react? Look, I think it's such a great point, Jay, because we have found ourselves in a situation where a lot of the supply chain ends up in China because it's cheap. Let's remember that, that many of the manufacturers have gone overseas. Our iPhones, for instance, are made and assembled in China, and so what we have to be able to do is recognize that this is a long-term fight. It's a strategic opponent that we have in China, and lately it feels like an enemy, and what we have to be able to do is recognize that bringing that supply chain home, we saw this in the post-COVID reaction where masks and gloves and other products were all made in China, and we were beholden to the Chinese to ramp up manufacturing.

We've got to bring that home. Not only should Congress start mandating that, but you know, I've been a big advocate for not allowing American companies to both have contracts in China and with our US intelligence services, because I think that's a slippery slope. We're going to need to be able to bring all of the supply chain home, begin to unwind ourselves from the cheap goods of China, and then we'll be able to, I think, have a stronger economic hand, and let's be honest, that's what the America needs to play. More so than our military might, our first step should always be using all of the tools of the economy and the power and the engine of the United States, and that's what Donald Trump did well. But here's an interesting thing.

So I played this earlier, Rick. So President Biden was asked by a reporter, any comments towards China's provocation over Taiwan? Here's his response. China has, I've spoken with Xi about China. We agreed we'll abide by the Taiwan agreement, that's where we are, and we made it clear, and I don't think he should be doing anything other than abiding by that agreement. The United States is a party to that agreement, the Chinese, Rick, are not. There's no agreement with China on Taiwan. Of course not, and let's remember that the Chinese have a very strong policy in their one China policy, which is very clear to the United States that they believe Taiwan, Hong Kong is theirs. It's a one China policy, and by the way, if any spokesperson for the United States government, any politician, anyone in the administration messes up and begins to call, let's say, Hong Kong or Taiwan a country or starts to treat them as a separate entity of China, there is an immediate strong reaction from China on US diplomats and others to say, no, we have a one China policy, and usually the Americans back down pretty quickly on that, and so this idea that somehow we have an agreement on Taiwan is baloney.

We don't. Yeah, I find all of that to be rather fascinating, and Rick, last question, we only got two minutes left. So far your mark, giving a grade to the foreign policy initiatives of the administration, the current administration, what's your sense? I can't even give them a grade because I think they're absent. You know, they keep saying that they, you know, diplomacy is back, for instance. Diplomacy is on its back, it's not back, and we see that across the board.

Look at France. I mean, now the French are upset because Biden didn't even know what was going on. We've got an absent foreign policy and an absent President. Rick, we appreciate your insight. As always, great to have you as part of our team here at the ACLJ, and again, you've served as director of national intelligence, served as an ambassador to Germany 10 years at the UN. We couldn't get more qualified people, and folks, and Rick would tell you this too, your support of the ACLJ makes all of this possible. You look at our foreign policy team, I'll say this Logan, it's one of the best in the world.

I mean, we have some of the best and brightest in the world as part of our team. Yes, absolutely, not just on foreign policy, but our entire team, our media team, everyone in digital media, that's why you see this show at each and every day on all your social media outlets on YouTube and on ACLJ.org, and we're gonna have another half hour coming up on Sekulow, and phone lines are open for your calls at 1-800-684-3110 as we keep the discussion going about all things that are happening in relation to the relationship with China, Taiwan, and with America. So again, 1-800-684-3110, support the work of the ACLJ at ACLJ.org. If you lose us on your local station, we're broadcasting live for another half hour on our Facebook page, on our YouTube channel, just search ACLJ or JSecula, you'll find us there.

We'll be right back with more on Secula. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights, in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you, and if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work.

Become a member today, ACLJ.org. Keeping you informed and engaged, now more than ever, this is Secula. And now, your host, Jay Secula. I understand, Logan, you've got an update on the situation in Texas, and let me just say our thoughts and prayers with our audience in Texas.

We have a big audience in the state of Texas. What's the latest, Logan? Yes, if you don't know, we're talking about there was a school shooting that happened this morning in Texas. The latest is, currently, four people were shot, but no deaths have been, no casualties have been confirmed, so that is a positive, at least, but as of right now, three people were taken to the hospital, one refused treatment, and the person of interest, however, did get away, and is in a silver 2018 Dodge Charger, and they're seeking him in Arlington's 18-year-old suspect. So, if you're in the Texas area, we'll make sure we got that information out to you specifically if you're in the Arlington area. So, that's the update.

The update is currently, like I said, four people shot, no deaths, which is great, but the person, the shooter, is currently still at large and has made his escape and is no longer on the property of the school, and again, is an 18-year-old in a 2018 silver Dodge Charger. So, I just want to make sure we spread that information as we have it. Well, all right, so we're gonna get back to another issue coming up, and I want to go to this in a moment. That's gonna be the International Criminal Court, where we're very active, but Harry, I want to go back for a moment, economic side, and that is with China, and then we'll move to the ICC in the next segment. A lot of our medications come out of China. I mean, we have to understand, if they invaded Taiwan, it's not that easy for the United States to just disengage. I think that is correct, and I think that is particularly correct, because the Biden administration is currently in office, and one of the things that I think everyone will agree on is it the Biden administration has difficulty seeing things clearly and basically making its decisions on the basis of principle. So, without principled leadership in the White House, then it will be very, very difficult to encourage the Chinese government to tamp down its aggression vis-a-vis Taiwan, and as I've said before, I think with this administration in place, this may indeed be the perfect time for the Chinese government to consider some fairly drastic measures with respect to Taiwan, because it's doubtful that this administration is capable of a sustained pushback, and this administration continues to send signals to the Chinese government that we are prepared to surrender, and we've done this in Afghanistan, 80 billion dollars worth of military assets, and so I think at the end of the day, many individuals in the Biden administration, they are prepared to look the other way. The other point that I would make is that many, if not most, of the officials in the Biden administration have already been co-opted by China before they join the Biden administration. They have received funding, they have received grants, some of the academics have taught at universities, and these universities are funded, or certain programs are funded, by the Chinese government. China has been working on its strategy for the last 20 or 30 years, and the United States has basically been asleep.

Well, I think Logan, it goes to show you that these issues are far more complicated than just, well, we'll take some military action and see what happens, but we're on top of it now, before it becomes a crisis for the country. So, I want people to understand that part of our engagement has to be in the policy arena, and that's another part of the ACLJ. You're doing a special, a tremendous special, I need to say this, on Afghanistan, that is in-depth on the pullout, on how we got in there, what it's meant.

You've interviewed some of the leading experts. It's a tremendous piece to be putting out in the marketplace that you put together. I know that's gonna be coming out in a lot of different formats, but that's all a very important part of the ACLJ.

That's right. That'll be a new series that'll be launching very soon. We'll tell you more information about that as we can. It'll also be probably cut into a documentary. You'll see those clips floating around with some of the top leaders, not just our ACLJ, amazing ACLJ voices, but from people from all over, from Attorney General John Ashcroft to Tulsi Gabbard, who we wrapped up with yesterday. So, a lot of perspective on the entire war on terror. That'll be coming soon from us at ACLJ and ACLJ Films.

I'll be right back. The challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack. It's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena. And we have an exceptional track record of success.

But here's the bottom line. We could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.

That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org where you can learn more about our life changing work.

Become a member today. ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, Planned Parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life. Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. Welcome back to Secula.

We are taking your phone calls at 1-800-684-3110 again 1-800-684-3110. Dad, we are joined by special guest Skip Ash, Senior Counsel here at the ACLJ. He has a new blog on ACLJ.org called Attempting to Bring the International Criminal Court into Compliance with International Law.

It's some of the incredible content that we post on our website continually. Yes, so I'm glad Skip's with us because this is something that is interesting. Skip's got this article up and I love when you read the title that we're attempting to bring the International Criminal Court into compliance with international law. Skip Ash is a Senior Counsel at the ACLJ in charge of international law.

And Skip, on that point, I think it's worth going right into it. We don't think they are in compliance with their own jurisdictions and mandates. No, they're not. The treaty that created the International Criminal Court is called the Rome Statute and the Rome Statute contains some provisions that clearly violate customary international law and every state is bound by customary international law. So what we're attempting to do is to go in to point that out to them one more time, but we've done this multiple times before, but to point out one more time with a an in-depth analysis of why it violates international law and then try to encourage them to bring to make those changes that are required to bring the treaty into compliance with international law which would free up all the criticism from third states, from non-party states to the treaty, that have objections to what the court is doing and is trying to do. So, Skip, we have been battling the ICC in various ways and have also participated with the ICC in other ways over decades now. You know, we've done it with Israel, we did it in U.S. interests and regarding Afghanistan. Now, fortunately there, even though we went to court and the court said, yes, that the prosecutor could have jurisdiction, she ultimately, the new prosecutor came in and said, we got other things we got to deal with in Afghanistan, not the United States. So, perseverance does work here.

Absolutely. The court came into operation in 2002, so we're coming up on the 20th anniversary of the court and you, as you said, we've been over there to meet prosecutors a couple of times, we have submitted documents and you have argued both at the appellate level and we have submitted documents at the pre-trial level. And so, we are actively pursuing cases in the International Criminal Court as an NGO, it's a non-governmental organization and because we are a non-governmental organization, the European Center for Law and Justice, we have the ability to do such things and they receive what we submit. Now, we're pushing in areas a lot of the countries aren't pushing, but we're trying to make this court, actually, a court that would be effective.

I mean, its goals are wonderful. A court that would be effective and a court that would operate within lawful jurisdictional limits, which it does not do now because of the very points we're making. This is exactly why the United States, Wes, is not a member of the International Criminal Court and I think as a former soldier, both UN skips serving the United States Army with distinction, the thought of being part of that court would be scary. Absolutely, and the battles that we are fighting to make the point that we are not subject to them because we're not part of that Rome Statute, it's very, very important and like so many bureaucracies that are a part of the larger United Nations, it tends to be biased. It's not always fair and objective, especially when it comes, for example, to Israel and Skip's article points out some great points of why we're not a part of this court and not part of the Rome Statute. One of the things I go back to, Skip, and that is this, when we did this when we were over there in December of 2019, when we actually appeared before the appellate chamber, you know, it's not our, it's not the system we're used to. Is that a fair way to put it? Yeah, it is.

It's a very different system. It is, they claim it's not politicized, but you can clearly tell it is. There were people there who were taking aim at the United States government, all sorts of things that were sort of ancillary to the issues being argued. You know, you were there, you were right on point, and yet many of the other attorneys that were presenting were talking about all sorts of things they would like to see. It should be this way, it should be that way, not what the law is, and courts normally, of course you should be, deciding and interpreting what the law says and not applying it, and what's happening here is that most of the people involved in the International Criminal Court want to stretch this law as far as possible to make it universally applicable, which it currently is not one-third of the nations of the world, representing two-thirds of the population of the world, are not members of the Rome Statute, and that includes three permanent members of the Security Council, so this court has a long way to go before it's considered legitimate by a good part of the world. So Harry, you've done international law, you studied international law, of course you worked on international law projects with us, your view of the court exceeding its jurisdiction and lack of, I would say, understanding priorities, although I think it's getting a little bit better.

Well, I think that is certainly a huge, huge problem. It is clear beyond question that the United States is a non-party state to this particular treaty, so if this were a law school exam and someone tried to suggest that the ICC has jurisdiction on the United States, that answer would deserve a failing grade, and yet the ICC itself continues to fail elementary logic and procedure, so they have no jurisdiction. They will not have any jurisdiction unless we join, but I think at the end of the day, this is another example of elites who believe that they know best. Many elites, for instance, they want to abolish something called borders, international law that protects sovereignty. They basically are pushing us further and further down a road toward a one-world government, and they are smart to start with so-called Western democracies because if they can gain control over Western democracies, either through the UN or the ICC, then the rest of the world will be compelled to follow.

So I think this is a long-term goal, a long-term strategy by the ICC, but I also believe that we do not have an administration that is prepared to resist these trends strongly. Hey, Skip, one of the things, and I want to ensure I'm not doing this with overstatement, but I would say that as an organization we are one of the most active NGOs, non- governmental organizations, at the International Criminal Court. We're definitely one of the most active with respect to trying to ensure that the court stays within its lawful limits. There are a lot of them over there that are bringing up all sorts of issues. I mean, there are some, you know, especially some of these human rights organizations, that everything they say is a crime.

Every wrong is a crime. And so, but we are the ones there, and in fact we're one of the few that have pushed back. We were one of the first ones to submit an amicus brief to the court, and when we, in this last situation, when we're dealing with the whole situation, Palestine, whether Palestine was a state, when the Palestinians, after we'd submitted everything, came out with other statements that contradicted their previous statements, we submitted another amicus brief to point that out to the court. Now, the court shot us down.

They didn't want to hear it, and they wouldn't let it be entered, although it's still up on their website, by the way. I know that. I mean, we said that. I remember you and I talked about that when we filed it. We said, you know, they may not say dashing on it, but they're gonna read it. And you know that's exactly what happened, and they kept it up there. I thought that was really interesting.

Yeah, it really is. And what we're trying to do now is, you know, we've contacted now 19 foreign ministers of countries that are member states of the ICC, of the Rome Statute, and what we were asking, and the letter that's part of the blog, what we're asking is that they consider intervening to help us to get this Rome Statute back where it should be, so that it's lawful under international law. And there, we can't do it ourselves. Whereas a non-governmental organization, we can't make these suggestions directly, but we can encourage states to do so, and that's what we've done. We have identified people that we consider to be friendly foreign ministers, and we've asked them to make these arguments. Whether they do or not remains to be seen, because the meeting doesn't occur till December, but we're in there trying to encourage them and to answer any questions they may have. Yeah, and I appreciate, Skip, I appreciate the way you lead our team on all of that, because it's really important to what we do and who we are, and I need to also say a thank you to all the people that Skip works with. And by the way, as we get ready to go to a break, we're gonna take calls in the last segment, I want to say thank you to all of our members, because everything you see and don't see is because of you. Whether it's our production teams, our video teams, our people in social media, writers, lawyers, public affairs people, people like Van Bennett running our government affairs team up in Washington, our offices in Strasbourg, France, and around the world, because of your support of the ACLJ. And I just want to say thank you from all of us. We're not in a matching challenge month, I just want to say thank you.

We couldn't do it without you, so thank you. We have another segment coming up, and we're gonna take as many calls as we can. A few phone lines are open, just a couple. If you want to call in, this is the time to do it.

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Become a member today, ACLJ.org. Welcome back to Secula. We are gonna take some phone calls coming up again if you want to get on the air. Last call 1-800-684-3110. Let's go to Joyce who's calling, then Todd will get you after that.

Joyce, you're on the air. Hi, my question is, if China were to call for America to pay all the debt we owe them, what does that mean to us? Does that mean that we are in jeopardy of losing all of our property and becoming like subjects of theirs?

That's a great question, and the fact of the matter is, they could call the debt all day and all night, but Harry, the fact of the matter is, they have no real enforcement mechanism, let's be clear. We're a big training partner for them. Their economy is very dependent on the United States as well, so we've got leverage and we've got bargaining power. I think that is true, but I would not underestimate the Chinese government's commitment to its own hegemony and its own power.

So I think you are absolutely correct in the short run. China would pay a huge cost if indeed it called the United States on its debt, but I also think China is not above using the fact that it is a huge creditor to the United States as leverage, and so I think at the end of the day, it's very very possible that China will make us more and more dependent upon Chinese creditors, and they may insist that the debt be collateralized, by which I mean that there would be physical assets which would support additional purchases of US government bonds. So keep in mind it's... What if we said no though? What if we said we're not going to do that? We're not going to give you any, we're not going to collateralize our debt with US assets. We're just gonna, you're gonna have to live, you bought the debt, the debt of the term, you bought the debt on specific terms, that's what the deal is. Well I think we could certainly move down that road, that is clearly a possibility, but I also think that the Chinese government might cut off important supplies to the American people, life-saving drugs that are being manufactured for instance in China.

So I think yes we could try that, and I also think that if that strategy were to be played out, I would hope that we would have a President more like President Trump as opposed to President Biden, and I think that is probably our Achilles heel that we have a President who is increasingly known for one thing, his commitment to weakness in the face of consequences. So Than, we've got this whole debt ceiling discussion going on right now in Washington. We know the Chinese buy a lot of our debt, how do you see it?

Yeah Jay, I mean for now the Chinese still need the United States more than we need them, and the goal here is to keep it that way, and honestly I think a lot of that discussion goes back to what Rick was talking about earlier, that we need to adjust domestic policies so we can bring some of that supply chain home. Right now Jay, the United States Congress and the administration is doing the exact opposite, they want to spend another five trillion dollars which then directly impacts the amount that we're going to need to borrow, so that we're going to need to sell more debt to the Chinese. I think they currently hold about 1.2 trillion of our about 29 trillion dollars in debt, and that will need to happen by the middle of this month.

Jay, a lot of what's happening in Washington DC now, and this is not going to surprise you, a lot of this is drama. There is there's an ability for Democrats in the United States Senate to raise the debt ceiling on their own right now. It's the reconciliation process that they're trying to do use to pass the spending. They could use that to raise the debt ceiling. They don't want to do that for exactly the reason that Harry was suggesting. They would then own it politically, so they're trying to bring Republicans into the room for that half of the equation to try to get their votes to help them raise the debt ceiling. I mean, but Jay, think about this, if you're if you're a Republican senator and you've been pushed out of the room on this five trillion dollars in spending that you don't want to spend, are you then going to in turn provide your vote for raising the debt ceiling that that spending requires? They're not going to do that. The Democrats are going to have to find a way to do it. It's going to be interesting though, Jay, this afternoon we're going to get a peek into whether or not they'll use that reconciliation process available to them, or maybe will they start changing the filibuster rules of the United States Senate. The President, yeah, Joe Biden's any money. Let me play that right now, Fan, you're exactly right.

Let me play that right now for everybody. This is a reporter's question and the President's response about the debt ceiling in the filibuster. Here we go. Are Democrats considering using a nuclear option to raise the debt limit? Using a car bout with the filibuster to raise the debt limit?

Well, I think that's a real possibility. So Fan, if that happens, that they do wait the filibuster on this, what does that mean? Well, it depends if they get the vote of Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema. I mean, look, I personally, they don't want my political advice, Jay, but I think they would be making a big mistake here because what it would mean, this would happen later this afternoon, there is going to be a procedural vote to proceed to a raising to the debt ceiling. It's expected to fail and at that point they could use what they call in the Senate, Jay, the nuclear option. They could try to change not the rules of the Senate but the precedent of the Senate and say we're going to raise the debt ceiling with only 50 votes and the tie-breaking vote of Kamala Harris. It's supposed to take 60 votes, Jay, but what happens if they try to change the precedent of the United States Senate and Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema won't provide their votes? As of now, they say that they won't provide their votes. Jay, that would be yet another legislative defeat for President Biden and they'd be right back to square one. Square one is using the reconciliation process to raise the debt ceiling for the spending that they want to do.

Jay, if they were asking me for advice, I would tell them to just go ahead and pay the political penalty that your spending has already triggered, use the reconciliation process. We'll know about three o'clock today though, Jay, and you look, if you're Joe Manchin, I don't know how you vote for for changing the filibuster rules, which you oppose, and increasing the debt ceiling, which you say you oppose. You know, I was, yeah, go ahead. No, I was gonna say really a couple minutes. Let's quickly take a phone call. Let's go to Todd on line two. Todd's been holding for a long time, so I want to make sure he got to him about China. Todd, you're on the air quickly. Hey Todd.

Well, thank you. I was reading an article yesterday by a lieutenant colonel, I don't remember his name. Anyway, his premise was should China invade Taiwan, instead of getting into a conflict, we should leave the other nations in condemning them and then also leave the other nations in heavily sanctioning China's economy to the point of crippling them, and this could potentially set them back decades in becoming a superpower, which is their goal. I was wondering what your thoughts are on that course of action. Yeah, yeah, look, I think, Wes, they're a superpower already.

Who are we kidding, Mike? Yeah, exactly. Plus, you know, they have so much leverage financially on the rest of the world, I doubt that the world would gather around to do that. I will say this one thing as it relates to Taiwan, though. China's idea of defeating America does not involve fighting World War III. Rather, it is counting on the United States imploding on itself financially and politically so that in time, like the former Soviet Union, we will not have the will or the resources to be a superpower, and China is banking on that.

That's how they intend to replace us as the world's only remaining superpower. All right, we have just about one minute left. I want to say thank you to all of you who've watched and who have listened today. If you have a moment, make sure you support the work of the ACLJ at ACLJ.org. You can also check out the great content that we release each and every day there, not just this one-hour broadcast, but new blogs, new media. You can find it all there on all of our social media platforms. Make sure you're following everyone. Follow me at Logan Sekulow, at Jay Sekulow, ACLJ.

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