Golf With Jay Delsing - - Darren Pang

25 years on the PGA Tour and a lifetime member of the PGA Tour and PGA of America, Jay Delsing brings you his perspective on one of the world's greatest games as a professional golfer and network broadcaster.

It's the game that connects the pros and the average Joes brought to you by Whitmore Country Club. Golf with Jay Delsing is now on 101 ESPN. Jay Delsing with me is John Perlis. Perli, good morning. Good morning, Jay. Ready to go today.

Bunch of good stuff to talk to you about. Did you Zen out this morning? Every morning.

Every morning for 20 minutes, but then with a five-minute relaxation afterwards. No, there's no chanting. You can make all the fun of this. You know I do the same thing. I'm just giving you trouble. You can make all the fun you want of this. This is a good centering practice.

All righty then. I wish the heck I would have done this when I was playing. Let me put it that way. That's a whole show somewhere along the line.

There's opportunity right there for both of us. No, I did when I was playing. The show is formatted like a round of golf.

This first segment is called the On the Range segment. Social media stuff, Twitter, at Jay Delsing. Facebook is Golf with Jay Delsing and Jay Delsing Golf.

LinkedIn is Jay Delsing and Instagram is way out there. In any case, we have a great show today. Love the show. I had the opportunity of sitting down with Darren Pang, who is, man, he does the color in between.

They call it in between the glass. For hockey. For hockey for the St. Louis Blues, obviously.

For the St. Louis Blues. This is a guy that has done three Olympic games. He's done stuff for CBS, stuff for NBC, and a lover of the game of golf. Some great stories.

Yeah, just a really, really good guy. We've got a bunch of stuff to cover. We've got the Leading Edge segment again with Cindy Vickers.

She's going to help you figure out how to lower your physical handicap. And then we've got some really cool little stories to tell, some goings-on that probably got overlooked that you didn't hear about. We've got this great Brandon Matthews story of what he did down in Argentina. Chris Kirk is another great story coming back after a little laugh. Let's just get right into it.

Which one do you want to start with? Let's go with the feel good. Okay, so we've got a guy that no one's heard of. At least I'm going to... No, that's fair. That's fair to say relative to who we talk about. I'm sorry, I said Braden. It's Braden Matthews. You've never heard of him. Don't even know the guy's name for credit. I'm not calling him the right name either.

He's down playing in the Visa Argentina Open, and he's in a playoff. So you can relate to that. I can relate to that. Tensions high. You're playing real good. You're focused.

You're flowing. I'll tell you, I got a great story. So when I won the tournament in Arkansas at Fort Smith, we had to come back and play. We played one playoff hole after the round of golf on Sunday, and then it got too dark.

So we had to come back and play three the next morning. On the very first playoff hole, I smashed a drive out there. I just had a sense I was going to birdie, and I hit a great iron shot into about six, seven feet. And right when I got ready to hit my putt, somebody's cell phone went off.

Nice. Who was it? I don't know, but I did not make it. No, who was calling? Yeah, right.

Hello? Anyway, well, this is kind of what happened. So he's on the third playoff hole. I missed that putt, by the way.

He's on the third playoff hole. In the middle of his stroke, one of the fans yells and screams, and he misses the putt. He just missed the putt, and he kind of comes out of the putt, and he's like, come on, guys. You know, like, what the heck? So anyway, shakes hands.

Off they go. They get back to the clubhouse, and it's brought to his attention that the gentleman that created the outburst had Down syndrome. What does he do? Well, there's a lot of things he could have done, but that's why it's a feel-good story. He goes and does a good thing, the right thing. He goes, oh, man, I got to meet this guy.

My mom used to be a special needs caregiver throughout his house. I mean, this story, who does that except in the game of golf? Well, and if we back up a little bit on the story, too, so Brandon also has had, like, a terrible year. Right. He's finally right at his game. He's getting himself into a position that you want to be, right? You want to have that chance to win.

So after all those things, swing change, coaching change, family meetings to see how we're even going to kind of proceed here, make this happen, how do you prepare for that? Well, the other thing is, let's talk this, too, John. You know, when you're playing that well, you're going to play for a six-footer, you're holding all of them that week. Look, I'm not saying he's not nervous, and I'm not saying he can't miss it because he obviously did. But that is, he's excited to hit this point. Let me just tell you. Absolutely. Absolutely.

They're on a roll. The story about his competitor who just made a 30-footer on top of him, he had stuffed it in the hole before. It's just kind of these things that you dream about. It's kind of a movie thing.

This happens. This guy just kind of makes this outburst. Brandon goes out and does the right thing, and all kinds of great things start happening kind of in his world now after that as far as being recognized. He didn't think that much of it.

He's like, hey, you know, they're probably feeling bad that this happened. That's not how I want this thing to happen. This is a great experience for me.

I got myself to where I wanted to be. He absolutely went and did the right thing. And he's just been inundated with positive phone calls, texts, et cetera. Oh, I sent him one, and he's got a huge fan in me.

And if we could ever get him on the show, that would be great. Absolutely. Yeah, really, really cool. Also on the show, I want to talk about Chris Kirk. Yeah. All right, this is another cool story that— It's ending up to be a cool story.

I just—so here's my take on this. So Chris Kirk, tell—not everybody's going to know Chris Kirk. So Chris Kirk is—I think he's won three or four times on the PGA Tour. Great amateur career. I think he's went to the University of Georgia or—anyway, just had a really nice, really nice money-making career so far on the PGA Tour. And he came out at the end of last year sometime and said, I got a problem, and I'm drinking too much, and I'm a bad dad, and I've got to get my stuff together here because I don't want to lose my family.

I'm just headed down the wrong road. And to come out publicly and say that, Jon? Yeah, that was really something else. I was blindsided by it. I just happened to be watching Golf Channel or something, and they had a little exposé on him. And I got to know him a little tiny bit, Caddy, for you, and you played with him a couple times. He absolutely bombed it.

I remember it was down in Australia, one of the times I forgot your dang umbrella and we're in a windstorm. That's another whole story. But he bombed it, and he's had a very, very good career. So when he came out and he just kind of exposed everything like that—and I think it's a healing process for him, it's healing for his family, and a great example to show other people out there that are struggling with maybe alcohol or maybe something else, that you can right the ship, that you can kind of sit back and say, hey, is this the way that I want to proceed?

And so I thought it was just heart-wrenching and very cool. Well, look, you subject yourself to a hell of a lot of ridicule if this thing goes sideways. Even if it doesn't go sideways, you know how people are. You know, you play while you're in a bunch of spectators around, and it's... Oh, it'll be on.

People take pop shots. That's just the way it works. Some of the things that you would hear from the sidelines, and TV's pretty good at not sharing that. And then when I worked the Ryder Cup matches in particular, man, because the fans were from all over the world, they were just ruthless on Monte, Sergio, some of those different things through the years. They don't let the players forget their past missteps, and even things with Tiger.

And fortunately, TV makes most of it go away because it's garbage. And we don't need to hear from that one Yahoo that wants to dredge up something that happened five years ago. Right, right. And God knows with someone like Tiger, there could be a storyline that can dredge an awful lot. So the Chris Kirk thing is cool. He played in his first event down at the Myakoma Classic down in Cancun.

Finished, I think, like 30th or somewhere in the middle of the pack. That's a big deal. That's a big deal. You can't say it enough. Especially that golf course. No doubt. I hope people watch that golf course. Because what I caddied for you there, and one of the announcers was talking about it. It's kind of wide.

But it's not. Unless you hit one and you think, oh, that's not real good, but it's going to be okay. And then it runs two more yards, and then you're in that dang water mangrove nightmare. Not that I ever hit it over. No, no. I hit one in there, I remember, and I'm like, Pearl.

And he's like, nuh-uh. We would have to get past sharks and alligators to get that ball. Crocodile Dundee couldn't have found that ball in there.

That's not going to happen. So yeah, I think that's awesome that he could hang in there. You know, when I was watching that tournament, I didn't hear anything. But did Kuch have the same caddy that he won with?

Oh, no. Rob Oppenheimer had the caddy and he wound up just missing the cut. So why didn't Kuch have the same caddy? If you win one tournament with a caddy, you wouldn't have the caddy come back? No, that's because it wasn't his main caddy.

I think John Wood is his full-time caddy. And did Kuch even play? Oh yeah, Kuch played. Did he? How'd he do? He didn't do too bad. I just wanted to be on the same caddy.

Yeah, he does pretty well. He did not have the same caddy. I think John Wood made the trip down that year. I wonder how many cat calls there were.

Oh boy. Hispanic version cat calls down there. There had to be some police. That's for Kuch going down. I guess you have to go down when you're defending, but that had to be.

I thought I saw him playing with cotton in his ear. There had to be some helmets. Exactly.

There had to be some Spanglish spoken down there too, you know, with how that goes. Well, that's going to wrap up the On the Range segment. Come back to the front nine. Jay and John are here. This is Golf with Jay Delsing. Quick note. We just got a call from our friend Joe Scieser at USA Mortgage.

He said the rates are still below 4%. And if you mention Golf with Jay Delsing, he'll give you a discount on your closing costs. Please call him today at 314-628-2015. Do you folks know about a family owned and operated jewelry business that's been in the St. Louis area since 1946?

If you haven't heard the name Suttley before, well, you have now. They are the premier hearts on fire dealer in the metropolitan region and have been for more than 21 years. What's a hearts on fire diamond, you ask? It is the world's most perfectly cut diamond. The Suttleys are knowledgeable and passionate about your jewelry needs and are open six days a week.

They will treat you like family and want to understand your wishes and desires. Their business thrives on developing personal relationships with you. Suttleys also strive to stay on top of the latest trends in fashion with amazing selection of designer jewelry from famous designers like Lagos, Zangani, Simon G, just to name a few. It's all done at Suttley. Suttley's is on the cutting edge of the diamond business featuring the lab-grown diamonds that can cost 30-40% less than a mined diamond.

Whether it's a hearts on fire, designer or custom jewelry, or even the new and innovative lab-grown diamonds, let Suttley Jewelers take care of all your jewelry needs. I have known this family for 45 years. Go in and see Gary, ask for Gus, ask for Laura. It's a family business and they are terrific people. They're located in the Lamp and Lantern Village on Clayton Road, just west of Highway 141 in Town and Country. You can also visit them at S-A-E-T-T-E-L-E dot com. Doster, Olam and Boyle LLC are a proud sponsor of golf with Jay Delsing here on 101 ESPN. The firm was started in January 2015 by Mike Doster, Jess Olam and John Boyle, three veterans of the St. Louis real estate, banking, commercial and corporate legal landscape. The firm was founded on the shared view that success should be measured by client and community satisfaction, not profits for partner. The firm's focus is on business, real estate, corporate finance and restructuring and succession planning. Since its founding in 2015, Doster, Olam and Boyle have been involved in real estate, business and corporate transactions with a combined value in excess of over one billion dollars. For decades, Doster, Olam and Boyle lawyers have been recognized as leaders in their practice areas by their peers. Doster, Olam and Boyle LLC, extraordinary talent, ordinary people.

The choice of a lawyer is an important decision and should not be based solely upon advertisements. You're listening to golf with Jay Delsing on 101 ESPN. You can find Jay online at jaydelsinggolf.com.

Welcome back. This is Golf with Jay Delsing. Jay and John are here. We're going to the front nine. I got to thank Whitmore Country Club for supporting the show all year.

They've been fantastic. The golf course and their membership is fantastic. There's 90 holes of golf out of Whitmore.

They give you access to the Golf Club of Wentzville, Missouri Bluffs, the links to Dardene. There's no food and beverage minimums. There's no golf cart fees associated.

There's no assessments. There's got a large, super large pool complex. Our fitness center is open 24 hours a day.

There's some tennis courts. They've got great opportunities for things to do with your kids between junior golf, junior tennis, the swim teams available. There's a kids club that's out there. This just, it's really family friendly.

It's terrific. We're coming to the, they had great holiday parties and occasions out there. There's picnics and date nights and live music and Bummer and the staff in the Pro Shop Pearl.

They just kill it. You know, they run all sorts of golf leagues and skins games and fun little member tournaments all the time. We're talking about Whitmore Country Club.

It's whitmoregolf.com and you got to call them and check them out. I'm looking forward to the rematch too. I hope Whitmore and you and Bummer schedule something for spring. Maybe we have like a spring fall match plus something that gets you ready for the big senior tour event coming to town. Yeah, right on. Get out in front of some people with some pressure on you. That's what I'm looking for. Yeah, that sounds good.

There's always pressure on people. All right, so we got to go to the Darren Pang interview. This Panger is, does a color and in between the benches for the Blues. He's done three Olympic games, worked for CBS, NBC. NBC has a show called the NHL on NBC that he's a contributor to. Just a lover of the game too.

I think of two handicap. Really? Yeah, good player. You guys didn't talk that much about that in the interview, but I didn't know he was that, it sounded like all the sports he's played in his life.

That doesn't surprise me because he talked about that in the interview. Yeah, so let's listen to Darren Panger. Panger, thank you so much for being on the show. Jay, it's my pleasure. You know, I love talking about two things, maybe three things in life. Golf, hockey, and wine.

So this is perfect. We're going to cover the gamut, I'm sure, in this interview. Panger, this could be a 24-hour interview. I don't know, we both know a lot about those subjects. Oh, man. Well, you know what? I just...

I'm afraid it could be. I know, right? I wanted to talk just a little bit about your career. I know you're such a humble guy and you're easy to poke fun at yourself, but, man, you started off, you know, you got drafted by the Blackhawks and you played and grew up with some great young players.

Talk a little bit about that experience. And you were on the NHL All-Rookie team in 1988. You know, I was really lucky that year, Jay. I spent three years playing in the minors.

And my first year pro, I got sent down to Milwaukee, which was the Blackhawks' number one affiliate. And the number one goalie down there that was supposed to be next in line to be in the NHL was a guy named Jim Ralph. Jim currently does radio for TSN Radio in Toronto for the Maple Leafs, and he's a very funny guy. He's the number one guy on the circuit for roasts. In fact, he roasted me a couple of years ago here in St. Louis.

He's just a great guy. Unfortunately for him in that first year, we were playing in Toledo, Ohio, and I think it was like 25-cent beer night. Everybody's all ripped up in the stands, and it's the IHL, and my goalie partner, Jim Ralph, is not a very happy camper anyway, and he tears the MCL ligament of his knee.

So we're not even, I don't know, two and a half months into the season. So as it turns out, I got my first lucky break. He tears his MCL. I play almost 60 games my first year pro, and sure enough, the Blackhawks have an injury in February just after my 21st birthday, and I get recalled. And that should have been him, but I get recalled because he's not there because he's hurt, and I end up playing my first NHL game against the Minnesota North Stars and had a great experience of being up in the NHL for three weeks. And then when the playoffs came around, they needed a third goaltender, which of course again, so I was the next in line. So I ended up being the third goaltender, and I stayed with the team for, shoot, it had to be a month and a little bit. They went all the way to the conference finals against Edmonton. So I gained a great deal of experience that first year, got to know the players, and even though I was just the third goalie and never played. And then three years later, I ended up making the NHL, and I was never going to win the Calder Trophy as the Rookie of the Year. Joe Newendyke was playing for Calgary.

He scored 50 or 51 goals. He was on fire. But we had a promotion in Chicago, thanks to my producer, Lisa Seltzer, and she said, you know what? You've had a great year. Maybe we can push you for maybe a runner-up or a finalist in the Rookie of the Year, and maybe you can make the All-Rookie team.

So we had these t-shirts made saying, Pang is easier to spell than Newendyke. And we sold them for charity, and we sent them around Chicago. I did a couple of these little quick 20-second commercials that she sent around to other teams as a promo. And it ends up that I ended up beating out a couple of goal tenors that were up for that. And as it turns out, that was the most fun I ever had in the NHL, and my career ended up being shortened only a couple of years later.

Yeah, and we're sorry to hear about that knee injury. But you know what, Pang? What you said just reminded me of playing the PGA Tour back in the 80s. It was just a kinder, friendlier environment, wasn't it? You could have fun and do things like that, and it wasn't such a big deal. That's a good point, because now I think if I were to do that now, there'd be guys saying, Man, how cocky is this guy?

Self-promoting on whether it be Instagram or Twitter or Facebook or something, and maybe you'd get taken the wrong way. And I was a little concerned about that when I did it, except that I trusted this producer. And Lisa's still a dear friend of mine, and she's the reason why I got into broadcasting. And she just said, Listen, let's have some fun with this. And you never know how long your career is going to last, kind of thing.

And as it turns out, she was right. But I do agree with you. It was a kinder, gentler world, and it's because there was no social media. There was no interaction. I mean, if somebody had something to say to you, they had to say it to you or call you on a rotary phone.

I don't know if any of the players on the St. Louis Blues right now could use a rotary phone or a dial-up phone. So that even makes it even probably more comical, Jay, between you and I and our timeline. I know.

And I just love that. Well, Panger, you meant to broadcasting right away. And I mean, your broadcasting career has been fantastic. You've done three Olympic games. You were the first reporter to get this access, you know, in between the benches, which I think is a hockey fan like myself.

I love the perspective you provide from down there. Yeah, the between the benches, it's an interesting initiative. NBC, when they took over the rights from ESPN, which I was with, they and PSN in Canada started a one up, one down. But the executive producer of the world speed for the 1998 Olympics, I was working for CBS.

John Davidson was the main analyst upstairs. And when they created the spot in Nagano, they said, you're going to be right between the benches. And I said, through the Olympics? And and they said, yeah, we've got you like you're the only person that's able to go down there and go around the locker rooms because the past the passes and the credentials are way different in the Olympics than they are for just a regular All-Star game or a playoff game.

And I said, this is unbelievable. So I go down between the benches to get my spot. And there's no glass between either of the countries. Like the first time I was there, I had to move aside and Canada comes, you know, comes from the locker room to being on the ice. And, Jay, I look up and it was like the Beatles were getting on the ice. Wayne Gretzky wearing a Canadian sweater. I never thought in my lifetime I'd see NHL players representing their countries in the Olympics. And Wayne Gretzky, Ray Bork, Al McGinnis, Chris Pronger, Eisermann, Sakic, Patrick Waugh. I'm just going, whoa, it was it was just quite an incredible thing.

And and I was right there for it. And so that was a really unique beginning to that. And a lot of people don't remember it because, you know, the games have now changed and NBC is taking it over or maybe T.S.

Sanders sports set in Canada. But that was that was that first time that that happened, the 1998 Olympics in Nagano. And I I it's one of my most cherished memories was doing that Olympics and seeing NHL players get on the ice for the very first time. And Panger, that team in Nagano and that was with CBS, by the way, that team was an All-Star team. It was a Hall of Fame team.

Yes, it was. It was a Hall of Fame team. Every single player that they waltzed out on that ice was a Hall of Famer. And on the United States, I remember oh, my goodness. I remember just looking around and seeing Walt Kachuk, Big Keith and and Jeremy Roenick and Mike Madonna and Brett Hull, Chris Chelios.

Like the list of great players went on and on and on. And in fact, Canada didn't even they didn't lose a game until the I think it was the first elimination round. They'd gone undefeated and then they went into a shootout against the Czech Republic.

And who stands on his head? But Dominik Kachuk wouldn't give up a goal. So that knocked out Canada for the gold. And then they lost to the Finns for the bronze.

The USA didn't even make it that far. And it was too bad. But at the end, another Hall of Famer, Dominik Kachuk, put on such a show. It was just incredible. He reminded me of an octopus, the way that he played goal, I felt I felt like he had about five or six legs and everything was just sprawling. He had no style at all. And that was his style. I think he had no spine.

It was like it was incredible the the elasticity that he had. But you know, one thing I found out, though, Jay, I actually retired in training camp of 1990. I re injured my knee. I came to training camp and I clearly couldn't pass the physical and I was clearly going to retire.

But I waited for a little bit to think out what I was what I was going to do. And I'm watching the first day of training camp. And they said, we've got this goalie who's a old he was a seventh round pick in like in nineteen eighty three or eighty four and he stayed in the Czech Republic and didn't want to come to Canada. I said, what's his name? And I said, Dominic Hasek. And I said, well, he doesn't he looks like a like a midget or a Bantam goalie. And they're like, yeah, he's supposed to be pretty good.

So I'm watching him and he's got this birdcage mask of his and he's got this unorthodox style and he's always on his stomach. And I'm asking some of the players because now I'm observing I'm in the stands actually with Vladislav Trecak was just hired as the goalie coach. And so I sat up in the stands and I watched with him a lot and I said, can this guy really play? Like, he doesn't look like he has the ability to play a junior, let alone the NHL. And he said, I don't know how he does it, but he stops the puck.

And I said, huh? And the next goalie that we had was Eddie Belfort, which everybody knows Eddie with the big battles that he had in St. Louis, especially. But so Eddie was next in line and Dominic Hasek was coming up the pipe.

I said, I think retirement's a really good time for me. And so, so I got into broadcasting, but the more I watched Dominic Hasek, Jay, the more I, I couldn't believe how slow he saw the play develop. Like some goalies overreacted, some goalies were antsy, some goalies went down early, some goalies guessed, and then there was Dominic. And with all the goofiness and quirkiness about the way he played, he was like Wayne Gretzky in the net for me. And he, the puck would come up to his glove and he'd, he'd have his glove kind of out there. Like he was serving a slice of pizza to somebody, but the puck was in the glove and he would just kind of hand it to the referee.

And I'd be like, how did he catch that thing? And he just, he had something magical with those in the comments that he had. And I actually, I became such a great fan of Dominic's and, and I was, I was glad to get to know him early on because, cause he was great. And and I think if you pick that goalie, it'd be hard, you'd be hard pressed Jay, to pick one goalie for a seventh game, just one seventh game, everything on the line. And I, I go back and forth and Dominic keeps climbing on the top of my, the tip of my tongue.

Cause that's how, that's how great I think he was in a pressure situation. Yeah, that's really cool. Panger, let's switch gears and go to golf now. I know you love the game. I've had the real pleasure of playing with you.

I know you're a student of the game and talk a little bit about how much you love the game and how it's kind of blended in with your, your broadcasting and your hockey career. Well, I do love golf. I love it for a lot of reasons, Jay. I love the competitiveness of going out and playing with the boys and having a little bit of money on the line. I love, I love having honest to God, I love having an eight footer on the 18th hole.

That's either, you know, that's either going to win you money or lose your money, or it's going to, you know, it's, you're going to let down your, your partner in a two man match or, or you're going to maybe, maybe win it all. And then you're going to go have a nice cold one in the 19th hole with the boys. I I, I didn't play golf until a later age. My dad was always in the food and beverage industry in the Ottawa area. And he worked at some wonderful golf clubs, the Royal Ottawa, one of the oldest in North America an old Thomas Bendelow design.

I love golf course designers and I, and he worked for a couple of other clubs, but he, but I never played. I asked my dad that many times, Jay, and he said, well, you, you played travel lacrosse. I was, I was on a great lacrosse team in, in Nepean, just outside of Ottawa. We, we competed for so many national championships and it was my favorite sport. And then I started playing tennis and I started playing tournament tennis.

So I traveled. And so golf just, just, it just wasn't in the cards for me until I turned pro. And when I turned pro, I had a good buddy, Tom St. James in Saginaw that said, let's go play some golf. And he really taught me everything about playing golf and the rules of golf and the etiquette of golf and the patience of golf.

But one thing I had was a bad temper, Jay, and a bad temper and golf and a bad temper in goaltending was no good. And I embarrassed myself one time at a, at a nice private club in Ottawa. And I remember to this day, cause it makes me sick to my stomach that I would do that on the 18th hole, uh, rip the three wood through the, you know, through the tee box, trying to hit whatever I was trying to hit through the trees, uh, hit it into the woods, smash my three wood in half in front of two elderly gentlemen that were hosting me. I've never been so embarrassed in my life.

And I figured out right then that I better figure something out here. It was happening in hockey. I'd give up a bad goal. I'd break my stick.

I'd have a temper tantrum. And now it was happening in golf and it was hurting me. And so I, uh, I went and I saw a sports psychologist and a guy that, uh, that really helped me get my blood pressure down in a hurry.

I had these machines, uh, set up to my, the pulse of my, my heartbeat. And I had to really do something to change everything. And as it turns out, I believe that golf helped my goaltending in such a dramatic fashion. I was able to give up a bad goal and, and literally calm myself down and get ready for the next shot and make sure I never gave up another goal on the next shot. And obviously in golf, I often think of that, you know, obviously hitting a bad shot and then, and then compounding that with another poor decision and another bad shot, another bad shot. And so, and then I started this mentality while I was in net. And even while I was in the NHL, like don't make another bogey, don't make another boat.

You don't have to make a birdie, but don't make another bogey and try to get it back to level power. And so I think the two intertwined for me. And I, and I think it gave me a fighting chance to be a goalie in the NHL.

And I think if I didn't have that because of what I learned in golf, there was no way I was going to play in the national hockey league with that mental or that bad mental attitude that I had. That's going to wrap up the front nine segment. We are going to come right back though, on the back nine and, and, uh, we'll finish up that Darren Pang interview, uh, Jay and John are here.

It's golf with Jay Delsing. This is a segment that I call the leading edge and I have Cindy Vickers here with me this morning. Cindy, good morning. Good morning, Jay. Thanks for having me. Oh my gosh.

Thanks for being here. We got to give folks your credentials. First of all, your phone number. And we'll give this again at the end of this little segment, but 314-323-2004 call Cindy, get your butt off the couch and start working on your golf game even in December.

That's one of the keys to this whole segment. I know it's cold and it's crappy weather out, but we can work on our golf game. Well, you're not going to be out on the course, so you might as well do the things that will enable you to be a much better player. And I have to say, sometimes people think, well, if they're in your fifties or sixties or seventies, it's kind of too late.

Every study shows that strength increases are the same for people, whether they're in their sixties or whether they're in their twenties. I love it, Cindy, because we want to get rid of those excuses for people. Look, if you don't want to do it, just say, I'm lazy. I don't want to do it. But most guys want to, and gals want to improve their game and you're going to tell them how to do it. Yeah, you can be lazy. That's okay.

That's why you get somebody to help you. Right. So let's take a little, have a little brief, a brief recap about flexibility. We talked about that last show and then, you know, because everything is really tied together, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

Completely. I mean, people want to say, oh, I need more speed on it. You know, we, we've got to have balance. We've got to have strength. We've got to have posture. We've got to have flexibility. This is a, it's an, it's a complete body thing that we need here.

Yes. I mean, there's not like something that's important and then the other parts aren't important again. You talk about those details, like, you know, a half an inch and an inch in golf is such a big deal, but I think what we're talking about here is what is it that is specific to golf that you want to do to work out it? It's all good for your body and makes you look better anyway, but, but there are some things that we're really talking about.

This is just to make you have a better golf swing and, and as much as people want to talk about power and distance, it all affects power and distance. So you mean you would, you really ideally first really work on strength and then you add speed and sometimes that is simultaneous, but you can't, you can't really skip parts and you can't have one without the other. And, and again, I, this is a no way to diminish how important it is to work on upper body strength and flexibility and speed, rotational exercises, but you, if you don't have that core strength and by core I mean abs and glutes, you're missing the, I mean, that's really where it all starts.

It's maybe the most important, not even maybe, it is the most important part, especially to start with. Well, that's what, that's why you're here. I mean, I want to give folks your, your credentials, registered yoga teacher, corrective exercise specialist and the TPI, which is Titleist Performance Institute instructor is just fantastic. You've, these, these folks have to call you. We've got to have three more of these segments, but, but you, they have to call you to understand what a complete body thing this is. I don't know how else to say it. Honestly, it's not really particularly intimidating. It's just the conversation about it, the science about it sometimes feels a little intimidating, but when you come to the gym and just sort of wherever you are, we just start there, you know, see what we got and then also what do you want to do? You don't necessarily, you know, your goals might not be that lofty or that high, but I don't think most people who are playing golf wouldn't like to get better. And so, you know, you're talking about a minimum of eight weeks to make an improvement.

So if you've got several months to work on it, I mean, this is, what's a better time than now? Her number is 314-323-2004. That's Cindy Vickers.

Call her today. I want to thank Whitmore Country Club for sponsoring my show Golf with Jay Delsing. There's 90 holes of golf at Whitmore. If you join out at Whitmore, you get privileges at the Missouri Bluffs, the Links of Dardene, Golf Club of Wentzville, and all the cart fees are included in that membership.

There's no food and beverage minimums and no assessments ever. They've got a great 24-hour fitness center, a large pool complex, three tennis courts, a year-round social calendar that is rocking out at Whitmore. There's kids clubs, junior golf, junior tennis, swim team available for your children. This is a family-friendly atmosphere, a wonderful staff, and you've got to go to the golf shop and visit my friend Bummer.

He is an absolute treat. Don't forget about the golf leagues, their skin games, members tournaments. Bummer and the staff out of Whitmore are continually running cool and fun golf events for you and your family. Visit their website at whitmoregolf.com. Urban Chestnut Brewing Company is proud to be an official sponsor of 101 ESPN's newest show.

Golf with our friend Jay Delsing. Just like Jay, Urban Chestnut is born right here in St. Louis. With three local brewing and restaurant locations, you won't travel far to sample straight from the source. If you're heading out to the Links this weekend or if you're just in the mood for a classic German-style beer, grab a four-pack of our fresh, refreshing Zwickle Bavarian Lager wherever craft beers are sold. Urban Chestnut Brewing Company, St. Louis, Missouri, Prost. St. Louis has so much going for it right now.

A new soccer team on the way? The Blues made a historic run to bring home the Stanley Cup and we have a growing startup community making St. Louis a household name for innovation nationally and internationally. Pride is not just who we were but who we are becoming is the new banner call for St. Louis and the forward momentum is exciting to see. But is your banking partner moving forward with you?

Are they a part of your community or sitting hundreds of miles away making decisions that affect the forward momentum of you and your business? Well, St. Louis Bank is a locally owned community bank for the St. Louis region and like what's happening in our area, St. Louis Bank is innovating community banking to help you move your business and our region forward. St. Louis Bank, let's move your business forward together.

Find us online at stlouisbank.com, connect with us on LinkedIn or call us at 314-851-6200. After 25 years on the PGA Tour, Jay Delsing takes you behind the scenes from the eyes of a pro. Now back to more golf with Jay Delsing on 101 ESPN.

Welcome back. This is Golf with Jay Delsing. Pearly is here with me and we are headed to the back nine, yeah, the rest of that Darren Pang interview.

So enjoy the interview. You know, Panger, when what most folks don't understand, I don't know if you'll recall a few years back when Tiger was trying to make a comeback at Augusta and he was a shot off the lead and this was at the time where if Tiger ever got in the lead, he never relinquished it. It was, you know, game set and match and he hits the flagstick on number 15. He had a poor drive, so he was laying up, hits the flagstick on 15, the ball goes in the water. One of the worst breaks that can happen to you. One of the things that happens in golf and the same in every sport where you have your mind suddenly racing to try and deal with something completely unexpected, unfair, whatever it is that just happened to you and you don't have the luxury of sitting around for 30 minutes to regather yourself.

You have to make a decision, you know, so Tiger basically broke several rules, should have been DQ'd, but because it was Augusta, you know, they looked the other way. But some of those things people don't realize are so difficult in playing sports and how important your mind is to be able to remember the good and forget the bad. That's exactly right. I call that in hockey, Jay, it's a control alt delete button and, you know, you have to find a way quickly to get rid of the bad. You just have to because, you know, that next thing you know, you're thinking of how bad that shot is and you're going to hit another bad shot and if I'm not mistaken on that rule, he had to drop the ball next to the divot, is that correct?

Correct. And he went back as far as he wanted to go back. What he did is that he was about three yards off of a perfect number for that 60 degree wedge of his. So when he said it in his interview at the Butler cabin, he said, yeah, so I dropped it, you know, I was a little too close, I dropped it three yards back, and that's the violation of the rule right there.

Yeah, that's, that's right. That was, I don't, I don't have much spin on my ball. So I don't usually even come close to the flagstick where it would be coming off the flagstick and then still have enough spin Jay to go back that part of the water. Oh my gosh, I'm a little, I'm a little guy with good hands, but I've got no spin on the ball.

I know the way it works with me. Yeah. You know, Panger, these players on tour have so much speed now that if they don't have their equipment so finely tuned, the ball will just spin out of control. It's unbelievable. It is unbelievable. I'm watching goaltending now and the art of goaltending and the art of the equipment and the art of the, just the lightness and how, how quickly these goalies can jump into new equipment, it's, it's, it is all changing. It's it's, it's changing for the good, for the goaltender boy, it's changing for the tough for the shooters right now. But the amazing part is how these old golf courses, which I, you know, I, I love the old Charles Blair McDonald's and the, the, you know, any kind of sets rainers and these, these golf courses that you think are going to be obsolete and yet they can still handle, you know, the, the, the, the equipment and the progress of the equipment and the golf ball.

It's actually quite amazing that they can defend themselves. Well, you know, Panger, we've talked a lot about that through the years about what are we going to do with these gyms that we have across the country that are, that are iconic where we're, cause because where we're going is we've got guys that are routinely driving the ball, you know, three, 350 yards now, and there's no end in sight because the players are getting bigger and stronger. Like you can adjust the golf courses. That's the beauty of the game. You can narrow the fairways. I mean, look at how poorly the U S side adjusted. Um, two years ago at the Ryder cup in France, you know, they couldn't, they couldn't adjust. They wouldn't, they wouldn't back off off the tee cause we're all a bunch of bombers and they don't hit it straight, but they're so powerful that typically they, the rough doesn't bother them, but they knew what they were doing, the way they designed the course over there and made the rough so penal that, you know, if you miss the fairway, you were dead and we got what we deserved. And sure enough, sure enough.

You got to Freddie funk it, Jay, you got to Freddie funk it and you got to hit the middle of the fairway. Well, it's interesting. You got a guy like Kevin Kisner who doesn't get picked on the team. He doesn't get picked on the president's cup team either. And the guy is 14 and one in his last 15 match play, um, matches, you know, in the, a center match play down in, um, uh, Austin, Texas, it's, it's just an odd thing. Um, some of the choices when it comes to match play in these, uh, these great fun president's cup and writer cup matches.

Yeah. You, you know, what's interesting when I was watching that, that when you were talking about the, uh, the writer cup and how many times, so now I watch and Jay, you do a great job, uh, for Fox, the analysts, um, that are on the major networks, that a player, like let's say tiger, it's a, it's a narrow hole and yet he's going to take driver and he's going to miss it. Um, and, and they never talk about course management with all the top players. And so I look from the TV side and I'm like, well, why wouldn't you just hit a stinger down the middle of the fairway with a little draw and be in play. And I found that was a very frustrating, that was the rider cup, right? I found that was very frustrating when that, when that happened to the course management from these great players that are so they're so good and they think the game so well, and yet sometimes they make mistakes and you go, well, why would you hit driver right there on a dogleg left that, you know, you, you know, there's a narrow margin for error right there. And the stinger, that's one of the things that they, that the, this modern game is all about power and Johnny Miller used to refer to it as bomb and gouge, but you know, they don't care about hitting the fairway that the, the tour on a PGA tour event is all about birdies and all about making birdies. And so there's not a lot of high rough and, and so that's really left up to the majors to kind of differentiate themselves that way. But you know, the URLs wanted to win the writer cup and they didn't care how they did it. And so Thomas Bjorn specifically had the golf course set up and specifically chose his team so that it benefited them the most.

And why wouldn't you, yeah, why wouldn't you exactly right. Think the game a little bit more clearly. I'm sitting in my office right here in a, in new city and I'm looking at something Jane, I'm wondering what is your favorite golf book or do you have a like a golf, like a book that you've gone back to from the teaching aspect of it? Oh man, I love Hogan's Five Fundamentals, Panger. I love Hogan's Five Fundamentals. So simple. I've got the paperback version.

I'm looking, I'm sitting in my office, I'm looking at it right now because I'm, I'm looking at all my golf books and, and I've, I've, I've got that right in front of me and I've got, and it's, and I've got another one right in front of me as well. The Natural Golf Swing by George Knutson. Yeah. Oh, George was a Canadian obviously and was, man, could he swing the club beautifully?

Could he? Yeah. He did have just a wonderful swing and I, I sent this off to a member at Meadowbrook, a fellow named Charles Highland and I said, you should read this book. Your swing is nice and tight and there's a couple of things in here and so he has read The Natural Golf Swing and I don't think a lot of people know how good George Knutson was, but that, that would be my kind of my, my go-to Bible whenever I'm struggling a little bit and I want to go back to something.

I look at that, that, that, this book right here. Panger, let me tell you something interesting that when, when Ben Hogan, Mr. Hogan used to, he was, he was a very private guy and he used to play and practice and like crazy and love to practice and love to hit balls. I can remember Hogan and Snead didn't like them, each other very, very much. And I think it was in the finals when the US Open, I think was match play and, and Hogan beat Snead and they went into the, into the press room and, and, and Ben went up, was up first and he said, yeah, I hit it so well that I played out of my divots from the morning round, you know, right down the middle of fairway and Snead who was, was really, really sharp said, well, if you were so good, why wouldn't you miss your divots then? But Panger, Ben Hogan video came out and Ben Hogan, they, they, people rushed to him and said, Mr. Hogan, this is so cool. We can now video your swing.

We can show you, you know, and, and are you interested in seeing this? He goes, not at all. And he said, they said, oh my gosh, why not? That doesn't, that doesn't make any sense. And he said, because I don't want to see that I'm not doing what I feel like I'm doing. I feel like I'm doing, it's working.

I don't want to know that that's wrong. And Panger, there's a saying on tour that your feel ain't real. And it's so true.

And I didn't know if there's anything like that similar to the game of hockey, but I thought you'd appreciate that in the game of golf anyway. Wow. Your feel ain't real. Because as players, you get this general sense that the club is passing or doing something a certain way and it's effective. And so you want to keep repeating that, right? Well, then I've, I've done this so many times, Panger, and I'm like, gosh, I must be not doing, or I must have overdone this. And I go right to video and I look, I'm like, I'm doing the same damn thing I've done my whole career. It's the same problem.

It's the same flaw. It's just, it comes back time and time again. Well, I would say from a goaltender's perspective that when, when you're, when you're on a role, I always found that it was, it was only a couple of things. It was your, your vision, the, the ability to see a puck come off a stick slower than normal is when you're at your, probably your calmest and most confident.

And, and then I think from that point on, so that comes with confidence. And I think the other thing is just a free flowing ability to not think, these players now can go. I was watching Pat Maroon return to enterprise center and of course he plays for Tampa Bay, as you know, Jay, and, and we, we showed him quite a bit, um, on our broadcast on Fox Sports and Western every, after every shift, he goes to the bench and he gets the iPad.

Now there's an iPad, there's four of them on the bench. They're instantaneous. You can go back to your shift. You can watch a sequence in front of the net, just like that. And I remember thinking as I'm watching on going, there's a certain calmness that it takes to go back to the bench.

Your heart is racing. You just finished the ship and now you want to instantaneously put information right back in play again. And goalies will come to the bench and they can look at, at, at an iPad.

And I think that's just kind of the change in the way it is right now, the information gathering process that we clearly didn't have when we were playing. Um, and I, I don't know, I don't know if I wanted to see myself all the time. Um, you know, if a goalie coach, when I was playing, the only video I had was an old VHS tape and you had to rewind it and it was the size of your laptop. My goalie coach would say something like, uh, well, do you, do you want to show the goals that you gave up? And I'd say, God, no, I don't want to see any goals. I gave up. That's a bad thing. That's right. That's like a negative.

I just want to see the saves that I made. And now, now these guys, they can see anything bad. They want to see everything right away and it doesn't seem to affect them. And uh, I'm, I'm, I'm quite impressed with their, their ability to do that, but I could see why, uh, like, you know, whether it be a tennis player or, or a pro golfer, not wanting to maybe overindulge in those days, because you get too critical. If I saw that my glove hand might be a little bit too low, my stick was a little bit too far out. Then I'd go into the net and I'd start thinking about, okay, where's my right hand.

Where's my gloves. And I, and I don't know about you, Jay, but the more I thought the worse I got, my dad told me, but that was my best theory. When I first got on tour, my dad told me, son, don't think you're hurt the ball club. And he, I knew exactly, I knew exactly what he meant.

Pinger. Let me, I so appreciate this time and I know we're running long, but let me ask you this. You got to tell me about the nine of hearts.

Where in the hell did that come from? Uh, your, your, your little isms and, and little fun quirks and things that you use on the air are, are so unique. Tell, tell us a little bit about that.

Well, I know as, as I've, as I've gone further in broadcasting, you know, there's been several things that I, I've, I've, I've leaned on, so I'll start with the nine of hearts. When you're growing up in different parts of the world and especially Canada, a card game that was very popular is Euchre. And I'm not sure if you've ever played Euchre, it's a two man game. So there's four people, two men, the lowest card is a nine. The highest cards, the most valuable cards are the jacks, the Bowers. So if it's trumpets hearts or spades, let's say for example, then the jack of spades is the highest.

The jack of clubs is the next highest and then the ace of spades is next after that. And so the old saying that we had was, I got stuck with the nine of hearts. I got, you know, my partner's called clubs and I got the nine of hearts and then when you were growing up, I had a couple of buddies of mine and uh, you know, you'd go out and you'd be, you'd be at some party or something and next day somebody say, Hey, did you know, I saw you were, I saw you were with that girl or something like that.

And you have that going, you go, I got the nine of hearts and it just became a scene. And the first time I was, I was working nationally on ESPN, I was hired about three years after I retired from, from the NHL. And I was lucky enough to get on board when ESPN two and ESPN were really starting up their, uh, their, uh, their ownership of the NHL. And it was a great deal. So I got to be really creative. And, uh, so the nine of hearts came into play, Oh, he just gave him the nine of hearts and people would always ask, what is the nine of hearts?

And I would never tell anybody what it was. And then the other thing was, I know the holy jumping was just an act of excitement for me. And it probably could have been another word other than jumping. I was that excited about a kid and Steve Sullivan that made this move that knocked me off my, you know, honestly, it, it, it put me on off my feet and onto my feet.

And Steve Levy was my play by play partner. And when this kid scored this goal, he must've danced three guys. And I just said, holy jumping, what a goal that was. And I was so excited because I, I was cheering for this little guy that had great hands. And uh, and so Steve Levy, after the game said to me, he goes, I don't know where that came from, but I saved that for special moments because that was something else.

He said that got me excited. And so, you know, the nine of hearts came up and, you know, uh, like you read about, uh, there's just a bunch of stuff that just comes free flowing out of my mouth, depending on the time of day and how exciting the moment is. Well, Panger, lastly, just talk a little bit about this great community that we live in. We are so fortunate to have some of the best broadcasters and all a sport and in the St. Louis, uh, tradition for broadcasters, you know, with Jack Buck, Harry Carey and Bob Costas and just the legends of, of broadcasting. And you know, now you're doing with the blues. I know you and Lynn love the town. You do some great charity work, uh, tell us just briefly about St. Louis.

You know what, Jay, this has been just such an honest to goodness. Um, I, I, I look back at the, at the decision and the invitation to come here. And I, I am so fortunate that I, that there was a leap of faith done on, on a number of different sides and first and foremost with John Davidson, he was the president here. We were broadcast partners and friends.

And I think he took a leap of faith to ask, uh, you know, a guy that never played for the St. Louis blues to, to come here to be the broadcaster. And so I've, I'm forever grateful to, uh, to JD and, uh, Doug Armstrong and the rest of the group that, uh, that said, come on board and be alumni here in St. Louis. I want to say that because it, it means a lot to me that the alumni here, guys like Kelly chase and Bernie for their code that had been here for so long, welcomed me in it.

If I played for the St. Louis blue. So that number one, that was, that was first and foremost, that, that welcoming part of it. Um, but I think number, you know, number two is the city. Like I always love coming here. I love playing in the city, but I love doing games. When I was at ESPN, um, I did a lot of games here in St. Louis and, and there was a couple of Thanksgivings that I was here for, let's say four or five days, two games. So I brought my linen and our two young kids at the time, and we would stay downtown and we'd take them to the museum here and, and go to the zoo and pick them to the arch. And, and so, as it turns out, we, we, we liked the city. And, uh, now that I've been here for almost 11 years, it's my 11th year now, um, I've been a member at metal brick country club.

I played all kinds of golf courses. Um, I, I love going to a game where the people care about the game, they care about what you say, they criticize what you say, they criticize, or they ask questions about why you're not tougher on this guy or why you're sugarcoating that and protecting that guy. There's just so many, there's so many good things about this city that I love. And, uh, the history of the broadcasters, Jay is certainly one, um, the ability to pick up a phone and, and, and call Joe Bock or call any, any one of the guys and do some stuff with Ricky Horton, uh, or obviously, you know, you know how tight I am with Bernie as you are.

Bernie Frederick was a hall of fame player, but he's a hall of fame person. And that's the way everybody is around here. They're just, they're phenomenal. And my own partner, John Kelly, I grew up just enjoying his father, Dan, and, uh, knowing that the Kelly group is, uh, they're great, great family.

They're great people. And, and I've just had the time of my life. So it's been, it's been an unbelievable ride and, and, and Jay outside of this, it's been a great chapter in my life and, uh, and winning the Stanley cup as a broadcaster, being part of it as a broadcaster, I never thought that I was going to enjoy it as much as I've enjoyed it.

I just, I didn't know what to think, you know, not being a player and being a broadcaster trying to separate the two, but man, when they want it and we were celebrated and I saw the look of birdie vertical space when he first saw the Stanley cup in that room, I was, it was just emotional, really, really emotional. Really great. Uh, Panger, thanks so much for the time, the stories, gosh, we could count.

Like I said, we could, we didn't even get to wine. That's that's what we know most, uh, uh, we'll have to do it again. Anytime for you, pal, we can have, we can have chapter two, three, four, and five anytime we want. Loved it. Really a cool guy. You know what, you know what is unmistakable about him, Pearl, he is so passionate about everything.

Yeah. I was gonna say about life. I just, I love hearing, just like we did with Jim Cavanaugh, I love hearing the, the, the, the journey, you know, and I, I love both of them finally looking back on the journey and even some of the harder times and, um, how much credit Darren wanted to give to other people, how lucky he kept saying had unfortunately, somebody else's misfortune about getting hurt and they couldn't, they couldn't play. But I think the journey, every time it just reminds me, that's, that's what it's about.

And it took a long time for these guys to get to where they got, and that's why they got such a great perspective now that they're here. And how many times do we hear the term overnight success and you, and you dig a little deeper and oftentimes, and you know how much I love music and you'll hear all these, this band is an overnight sensation and they're like, uh, we've been playing in bars and, and anybody that'll listen to us for 15 years. I had a couple of hot products a couple of times and doing trade shows and people would literally come up to you and say, oh, you're an instant millionaire.

And I would just say, I appreciate that you think we're doing well and we're doing pretty well, but I'm about 20 years past instant. And I'm an instant hundredaire. Were you a hundredaire? Maybe I'm a thousandaire today. The only time I was a million anything was Lilianaire, once upon a time I won some money in Italy.

I was a Lilianaire. Um, well, that's going to do it for another show and Pearly, thank you so much for joining us. I love being with you.

This is, this is so much fun. And Brad Barnes is running the board and timing us and telling us to shut up or keep going. He has not told us to keep talking. Have you noticed that?

Not yet. He usually says, will you stop it? Go home. Exactly. Anyways. Um, but thanks for listening. It's golf with Jay Delsing.

Hit him straight St. Louis. It was golf with Jay Delsing brought to you by Whitmore country club tune in next Sunday for more from Jay John and the other pros and experts from the golf world. In the meantime, you can find all of Jay's shows at one Oh one ESPN.com as well as at J Delsing golf.com. There are all different sizes of businesses, big business, small business, that awkward growing phase business, the running this thing from my garage business and the OMG, we can't hire fast enough business. Wherever you are in your business journey, HubSpot's powerful, but easy to use CRM platform grows with you. It lets all of your teams work together seamlessly, whether that's just you and your roommate or colleagues across multiple time zones.

Grow better with HubSpot by connecting your people, your customers and your business. Learn more at HubSpot.com Peloton. Let's go this holiday with the right music and the right motivation from world-class instructors. We're going to pick it up a notch.

It's the holiday season. You might just surprise yourself with what you're capable of. Work out to thousands of live and on-demand classes from running to cycling to yoga, try Peloton risk-free with a 30 day home trial. New members only not available in remote locations. See additional terms at one Peloton.com slash home dash trial Peloton motivation that moves you.