Jay Delsing spent 25 years on the PGA Tour and is a lifetime member of the PGA Tour and PGA of America. Now he provides his unique perspective as a golfer and network broadcaster. It's time to go On The Range with Jay Delsing.
On The Range is brought to you by 20 Minutes to Fitness. Good morning St. Louis. This is golfer Jay Delsing. I'm your host Jay and welcome to the show. We formatted the show like a round of golf. This is the On The Range segment and man I'll tell you something extremely tragic happened in the world of sports this past week with the helicopter crash out in Calabasas Park, California and the death of Kobe Bryant, his daughter Gianna.
There are another the Alta Bellis died there with their with their daughter as well the husband and wife there were a mother daughter Sarah and Peyton Chester were also involved in this crash along with the Mamba Academy coach Christina Mauser and then again the pilot and you know. I think it's important we all love sports man. I just I've grown up with it my whole life and I I follow it every day and and I did not know Kobe Bryant personally at all. I certainly have a tremendous amount of respect for what he did on on the basketball court and the way that he played. Well, it was just it was just inspiring he he was one of the one of the people that you could look up to in the NBA that he brought it to both ends of the of the court every single night, but something is so much bigger here to me that I wanted to share with you guys. I'm the father of four daughters and when I think about the I almost can't think about the last 30 seconds of this this whole tragedy. Because five NBA championships scoring titles MVPs.
Third when he retired and then on the all-time scoring list for the NBA none of that matters. None of that matters at all. It's it's a the the human side of life. We look at some of these athletes and some of these politicians and business people whomever in our lives and we look at them as if they're almost, you know larger than life. They're not human.
They're not like us, but it's really not true. I just think of being in that situation having one of my daughters with me and knowing what's going to happen. And my my heart just breaks the for not only Kobe but for the Altavelli's and the Sarah Chester and any parent that's been in a situation like this. It's it's just amazing.
There's just nothing. Our humaneness is so important. I think to remember at times like this because none of the NBA championships and all of the accolades mattered. When that helicopter was going down and it was Kobe being a dad.
To Gianna and trying to comfort her and I'm sure trying to make her feel like she was going to be okay. Boy, it's it's just such an interesting story some of the background. I know that area really well and when I was at UCLA, we used to play out of Calabasas every Thursdays and it's a very hilly. I don't want to say mountainous area because it's not like a like a Vale Colorado, but it's just kind of it's very hilly and and I'm sure they were taking this helicopter over to the Mamba Sports Academy, which Kobe founded once he retired. Just because the traffic getting over to Thousand Oaks was going to be bad and I'm sure there was so much excitement for these young girls go over and and then play basketball and be with someone like Kobe and being a helicopter and have it so cool and and the the the remoteness of that area where this helicopter went down makes it. You know almost.
Kind of more intriguing because there's you're in a place like Southern California where there are people wall to wall people up and down every place you go and then you know you get over the side of this hill and it's just very wooded and very mountainous and. Of course, nobody survived this tragedy and it just I know this is not necessarily a golf topic that we're talking about, but I think it's important for all of us sportsmen for all of us people. To. To contemplate, you know, our families and our loved ones into, you know, remember what's really, really important. So sorry for that little sidebar, but that's I think it was really important.
It's really important to me. I hope it didn't irritate you too much. So what was going on at the same time in Southern California? Probably known to 300 miles down the road was the farmers insurance open down at Torrey Pines and Tiger who was a friend of Kobe's who looked up to him and admired him in many ways as Kobe did the tiger was out playing his round started the day. Five strokes off the lead really realistically. It would have had to been some sort of super special day for Tiger to have won the tournament because he just had too many players between he and John Rahm who had lead and I thought something interesting that we should talk about happened.
Joe LaCava who I'm trying to get on the show and hopefully will be on the show soon. Is caddied for Tiger and been on caddied on tour for Fred couples and had some great bags on the PGA Tour. He found out about what happened. To Kobe and his family sometime in the on the front nine and I was really interesting that Joe chose not to tell Tiger while he was playing and I obviously know why he's in this situation. There's not a whole hell of a lot he can do while he's out playing around the golf and he's You know.
Got an outside chance of winning his 83rd tournament setting the all-time record for a number of championships one on the PGA Tour. And so he decided not to tell him and it was interesting because they're walking off the 18th green or through kind of a various mazes underneath the the bleachers and hospitality that they have there and Joe says to Tiger you know tells Tiger about the strategy and Tiger kind of stops at his tracks and says Excuse me. And it was interesting when Tiger was interviewed by Amanda.
I'm not sure how to pronounce your last name Bolly honest. I think it is with CBS. He had only found out about the tragedy and some certain you know five minutes ahead of time and some things were starting to make sense to him now because he kept hearing shouts in the gallery. Do it for Mamba do it in Mamba style, you know, the folks that were out in droves out in San Diego where Tiger is one eight times by the way, we're really really pulling for Tiger to do something special while at the same time trying to encourage him.
By making the analogy of Kobe and I thought it was really really interesting. Another interesting thing kind of happened on this on the stretch in the back nine Jon Rahm got off to a horrific start. I think in his own words said he probably couldn't have played the first six or eight holes in the front nine worse. And I think he was four over par and made a really classic comeback and 13 and made birdies an eagle at 13 a birdie at 14. He did bogey 15 and then birdied 16 birdied 17 at birdied 18. And when he got the tapped in I had about a 50 foot putt one very similar to the putt that he hold in 2017 first first feet PGA Tour victory. It was about a 50 or 60 footer from the back left edge of the 18th green down to that front left hole location and you know very miraculously hold that putt in 2017 in a very nice putt.
This this past weekend it didn't go in it went down to I don't know 10 12 inches or so. So he had a routine tap in for birdie when he tapped the ball and he looked at his caddy and said well you know at least we're going to have a playoff and I think it kind of went more like this. He handed his putter to his caddy and his caddy said nice try and John said well at least we got a playoff and he said no we don't have a playoff because Mark Leishman won the championship birdied 18 so John needed to make eagle on 18 to tie and get into that playoff. And when questioned about it afterwards Rahm said you know it wouldn't have changed anything I was trying to do the best I could it's a 60 foot putt it's a very very treacherous putt down a hill towards water and he said I you know I I did it the best I could and it wouldn't have changed anything. But it's interesting your your level of awareness when you're out there playing John Rahm said he birdied 17 he made a nice beautiful shot in there to about oh four or five feet and made a downhill four or five footer which on those seaside point agrees are not easy because they are bumpy and he said he didn't look at the leaderboard. And so many people wonder did that cost him would he have played the 18th hole any differently and I'm going to say no he wouldn't have at all.
It was the odds of him making an eagle there are slim anyway he had a very good second shot right over the flagstick but still wound up with a oh some somewhere around a 60 foot putt. So those are some of the things that are happening in the I just I just kind of wanted to you know recap things very often on my show here but I wanted to go over that and and give you my thoughts on that. I also want to tell you about the St. Louis Golf Expo that's coming next weekend February 7th 8th and 9th at the St. Charles Convention Center. Come out and say hello I'll be on the stage at 1 30 on Saturday February 8th come on out and say hello let's talk about golf I'm going to be doing a little exhibition on the short game but come on out say hello and let's talk about golf. That's going to wrap up the on the range segment come back I got a great interview with Bob Rotella we're going to do a leading edge segment on Kobe and a lot more.
Quick note we just got a call from our friend Joe Schiezer at USA Mortgage he said the rates are still below 4% and if you mention golf with Jay Delsing he'll give you a discount on your closing costs please call him today at 314-628-2015. I want to tell you about a strength training fitness program that helped me and that can help you it's called 20 minutes to fitness they have two locations one in Clayton and one in Chesterfield. Every time you go to the gym with 20 minutes to fitness you work with a professional trainer they take you through specific machines and with specific exercises that are designed to help your golf game. We're talking about strength flexibility and those two components are huge to help you improve your game.
Visit 20minutestofitness.com your first session is absolutely free get off the couch and get in shape. This is Dan McLaughlin TV voice of the Cardinals St. Louis is one of the best sports cities in the country we also have a tremendous history of supporting professional golf. We're excited to bring professional golf back to St. Louis with the inaugural Ascension Charity Classic September 28 through October 4 at beautiful Norwood Hills Country Club. Legends like Ernie Els, Fred Couples, Jim Furyk, Steve Stricker and many more will be in St. Louis.
For tickets and sponsorship information head to ascensioncharityclassic.com that's ascensioncharityclassic.com. I have the pleasure of sitting down with the executive director of the Metropolitan Amateur Golf Association Kurt Rowie. Kurt good morning. Good morning Jay and welcome to the Metropolitan Minute. We're excited to bring you this segment on golf with Jay Delsing each week to provide you an update of what's going on in the world of the Metropolitan Golf Association and amateur golf in the St. Louis region. We will give you updates on local events, USGA qualifying rounds, the world handicap system and all the services that we provide to clubs and golfers in the region.
Please check us out on our website at www.metga.org or you can also be reached at our phone number 314-567-6242 which is 314-567-M-A-G-A. Kurt, welcome to the show. We're glad to have you and I know our listeners are going to love hearing about what's new around town and the amateur golf scene.
Thanks Jay. We're excited about this partnership over the next few weeks and to hopefully educate and get more golfers interested in what we're doing and what the amateur golf scene is here in St. Louis. I'd like to thank Whitmore Country Club for sponsoring my show Golf with Jay Delsing on 101 ESPN.
Whitmore has been a great partner as I enter my second year. If you are considering a great place for your family to hang out, you've got to go over to Whitmore Country Club. Go in the golf shop, see my friend Bummer. He'll tell you all you need to know about the kids club, the golf, the tennis.
They've got swim teams and leagues. There's anything you and your family can want at Whitmore Country Club. Visit them at whitmoregolf.com. Grab your clubs. We're headed to the front line on golf with Jay Delsing. The Front 9 is brought to you by the Ascension Charity Golf Classic.
Welcome back. This is golf with Jay Delsing and we are headed to the Front 9. I have an interview with the most prominent sports psychologist in the world of golf, Bob Rotelli. He happens to be a friend of mine. I have a chapter in one of his books and just a great guy. Hope you enjoy this interview. We met each other back in the middle 80s. When I first started playing the tour, I didn't even know guys on tour had sports psychologists at the time. Man, we've had a lot of fun together. That's for sure. I think I remember you trying to skateboard or roller blade with my daughter?
Yeah, both and I wasn't very good at either one of them. I must say you were very impressive. I don't think I ever heard Casey laugh harder when I tried to get on that skateboard. I was like, Casey, how do you hold on to this thing?
And she's like, what? Yeah, that little girl now has eight children. Oh my gosh, doc, congratulations.
You have eight grandkids. Wow. That's amazing. I remember that. The other thing I remember is the day you and your dad and myself went into a batting cage. How much fun was that?
I think he was 70 something and he put on a hitting exhibition in the batting cage that was amazing. I know, doc. That's what we did. We were down in San Antonio and I had my dad with me and we were sitting around and I'm like, yeah, let's go hit some baseballs. He's like, what? And you were like, yeah, Jim, this is going to be fun. And my dad just tore it up. Yeah, we thought the machine was pretty fast and your dad thought it was pretty slow. All I know is I told him, you've still got it, Jim.
Oh my gosh, that was so much fun. So, doc, let's just talk a little bit about, you're from Rutland, Vermont, and you were always into athletics and always an athlete, weren't you? I was. Still am. And you still are. And one of the things I want the folks to know is that you went to the University of Connecticut, you got a doctorate at the University of Connecticut, but you founded the sports psych department at UVA in 1976, I think.
I did. I went to Virginia originally to teach a course in sports psychology and coach lacrosse at the university, which was a powerhouse program, still is. They won the national championship this last year. And after about three years, I was a defensive coordinator and they asked me if I would start a master's and doctoral program.
And instead of coaching, what I worked with all the athletic teams on mental training, and they gave me a tenure track position and I left coaching and went into doing what I've spent my life doing. Well, and you guys won a national championship in basketball, among other things. I know that I can remember some of those stories.
Those are great stories. Well, and this year was so special because here is a team, you know, that the previous year we became the first team in history to lose as the number one seed in the first round to UMBC. And the team was just devastated.
And we had a lot of meetings dealing with that. And Tony Bennett is just one of the most amazing coaches. And, you know, I would say he really put, you know, what you could call a team together.
A bunch of players that probably most of the world didn't think, you know, had that kind of talent, but he got them to believe in what he was doing and it's incredible. His defense was all based on his dad, Dick Bennett, who coached for years and took Wisconsin to the Final Four. And I was amazed to hear recently that Texas Tech, who Virginia beat in the championship game, uses the same defense that Tony uses. So both teams in the championship game were using a defense, you know, that Dick Bennett, Tony's dad, put together. And then last week, I'm watching Louisville play, who is number one in the country now, and they're using the pipeline defense. So it's pretty amazing the influence that Dick and Tony Bennett have had on the game of basketball. And it's so amazing how when, you know, sometimes you feel as an athlete, Doc, that, you know, not a lot of people are paying attention and you're, you know, when something sticks, man, it gets spread all over the place, doesn't it?
Yeah, it does. And, you know, it's funny, like defense and rebounding and free throw shooting. And if you remember, Virginia made three in a row, Kyle Guy made three in a row with four tenths of a second left on the clock and down by two.
And I don't think I've ever seen anybody make three in a row with no time left on the clock in a big game. But anyways, I mean, the point to bring this back to golf is that rebounding and defense and free throw shooting is basically short game and wedge play and putting in the mind in golf. And, you know, I first heard it from red hour back when I was a young kid and the whole point is if you want to win in the night when you shoot 30% from the floor, you have to play defense and rebound and make free throws. And in golf, it's basically having a great mind and having a great short game. And I keep telling people, it's really hard to have a great mind if you don't have a great short game. And it's hard to have a great short game if you don't have a great mind because all anyone ever talks about is how far you hit it. And really, all the long hitters have great short games. It's amazing how much of what this game is about. It really is, Doc. The sexy part, you know, of the game is its massive drives.
But I can remember just talking to you about the short game and how important it was. Yeah. When you say sexy, are you talking about yourself? Well, naturally. Yeah, I thought so. I think that's how most of the world sees you.
They sure do. Doc, so when I think about one of the most impressive things that I took away from you is to be nice to yourself, to simplify things. And to really have fun, especially my personality. If I'm not having fun, I don't have, I'm not going to be my best.
And we had so much fun together and consequently, I would have never had the successes I had without that. Well, you know, as you know, so much of what I talk about begins with the idea that you just play the game a lot better when you're having fun. And every day you have a choice between having fun, getting the ball in the hole or turning yourself into a serious uptight nerd. And it's really hard to play sports when you're feeling like a serious uptight nerd. And you only do that if you're making the game really complicated. And there's a lot of nerds who are trying to make the game really complicated. And when they do it, they don't tell you that they hate playing golf anymore and they don't like the game anymore and they really don't even play it anymore.
But they pretend that what they're telling you is the answer and really it's what drives a lot of people out of the game. I mean, having fun and playing the game. And the other thing I'd say is when you're having fun, it's a lot easier to see shots and see targets and hit shots and let your body respond. And, you know, it's so hard for people to understand that, you know, really a swing is something that happens in response to what you're picturing in your brain. And, you know, a lot of people are trying to make it work the other way where you've got to make a swing to cause the ball to go a certain place.
And they don't do that in any other sport they play. So ultimately when you get on the golf course, I mean, it's about hitting golf shots and playing shots and seeing targets and seeing ball flights or seeing trajectories and letting a swing happen that produces that. Just as if you were, you know, we're talking about your dad hitting a baseball. I mean, it's a lot like seeing the ball and hitting the ball or throwing a football. I always use the example, I was a high school quarterback and I said, you know, I never once asked anybody how did I know how far to lead four different receivers who ran at different speeds. And yet you instinctively knew how to do it. And you threw it from all different kinds of arm positions. You know, you're in a great baseball town. Just say if you watch a shortstop, I mean, you'll see they intuitively know how hard the ball was hit, how fast the guy is running the first base, how deep in the hole he catches the ball, how hard the ball was hit and how hard to throw it and when to throw it to get it to the first baseman's glove a half a set before the guy hits the bag.
And they've never thought about it. And so a lot of it is playing the game is letting go of all the other junk, you know, and just letting go of conscious control is really what letting go means. Well, and do you remember when we did something together for the PGA of Arizona and you asked, we had about 50 pros in the room and you and I were talking and it was really a blast. And you said everybody in the room here that could when they were, you know, 16 years old and could shoot right around par raise their hand and every every hand went up. And then you said and then everybody that that knows more about the golf swing now and more about the mechanics of the swing now than they did when they were 16 raise their hand and everybody's hand went up and you said everybody raise your hand now that can still shoot around par.
And there are no hands raised. And my next question was, why do you believe so much in all the information you get if it's made you play worse and I think at some point I asked us so are you charging people for this information. And we had, you know, we had a good talk about it, but I mean, I wasn't trying to attack anyone I just saying, you know, God the idea is to help people play golf if we want the game to grow. And if we really like playing golf and I think that's a big big issue for people is, you know, is the game growing. And how's it going to grow if people aren't having fun playing it. And, I mean, that's a lot of what it's all about is, is being able to go out there with your friends and enjoy playing and yeah I mean you want to be able to play in competition and enjoy it.
But it's just, it's just the way it works. And I'm just trying to explain to people that, you know, this is how you play a game and a lot of people tell me. I hear this a lot. They tell me you know Doc, if you're listening for a while you know like I love golf. I love talking about golf I love reading about golf I love watching golf.
I love practicing golf I love taking lessons in golf you know the only time I don't love golf is when I'm actually playing it. And you go, oh, that's not a good thing. There's to be like if my wife only loves me when I'm not near her, you know. Right, right. And we know that's not the case. Darlene's one of the luckiest women in the world. You keep telling her that right?
Yeah, I keep telling her she's not buying it. So Doc you've had the ability, you've also crossed over in the other sports. I remember when you worked with a lot of MLB pitchers and there's challenges in every sport like this. Well I still do work with a lot of other sports and you know I would say I actually crossed over into golf. I didn't cross over from golf into the other sports. I was a team sport athlete and I would never have guessed I was going to be working in golf a long time ago but I'm thrilled that I got to because I've had a ball but I mean it's really it's about playing a game and to play a game you have to be intuitively and instinctively reacting to something and a lot of people are so into how to do it that they don't even know where the target is.
Doc is there anything any such thing as muscle memory from what you've learned? No, no and that's why even the best golfers in the world miss all kinds of shots and here's the problem is a TV camera only can film the golf swing or the putting stroke or the pitching motion. They can't videotape what's going on inside a person's head so they basically pretend that what's going on in your mind doesn't exist and every time a guy misses they show a replay of the swing but they don't show you why the swing change. I mean the thing about how many balls you guys hit a day you know if the mind didn't matter you know people would hit a lot of great shots I mean but it does and you know like I said you know people are going to invent machines eventually that'll be like riding a bike you just stand in this machine and hit pure shot after pure shot. But once you get on the golf course if your head isn't in the right place and the problem is it's just a little bit of doubt you know some people hear my stuff and they went I mean these guys are scared. No they just have a little bit of doubt a little bit indecision changes your golf swing so dramatically or your putting stroke and it's just a little bit doesn't take much. Well I think a little second guess just a little doubt yeah no doc I think one of the things the coolest thing you taught me was that you're either a hundred percent committed or you're not. And even if it's that little bit it's it's a mental error it's not a physical error we don't work on our golf swing when that happens we work on the mental side. Yeah and you know if someone says to me well I kind of trusted it I said well then you didn't there's no kind of trust in it or almost the rest of it.
And you know it's like I tell people don't even think about evaluating your golf swing or your putting stroke until you have your head in the right place. Well that's going to wrap up the first part of the Bob Rotella interview but come back for the rest of it on the back nine this is Golf with Jay Delsing on 101 ESPN. Urban Chestnut Brewing Company is proud to be an official sponsor of 101 ESPN's newest show Golf with our friend Jay Delsing. Just like Jay Urban Chestnut is born right here in St. Louis with three local brewing and restaurant locations you won't travel far to sample straight from the source.
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That's up to 50% off the sales price of a purchase of $200 or more. Everyone is looking for the extra edge and Jay Delsing is digging deep to find it. It's the leading edge on golf with Jay Delsing. I think it's really appropriate for my leading edge segment this week to be about Kobe Blackmon but Bryant.
Unfortunately died much too early in the tragic helicopter crash in Calabasas, California. But one of the things that Kobe did was he created this alter ego for himself called the Black Mamba. He wanted to have an entirely different almost assassin like persona when he got on the basketball court and he did. What amazed me about Kobe and what is so perfect for the leading edge segment is his mind and his desire to win. To take the last shots are something that we just don't see that often in sports. What Kobe did he was never afraid to fail.
He would tell you all the time. I want the ball in my hands. I want to be the guy taking that last shot.
I want to do it because I'm going to succeed. I'm going to pull my teammates with me and we are going to pull this thing out and man he got great at it. What's neat about having Bob Rotello on the show this week and having Kobe as the leading edge segment. It was so much about the processes that Kobe went through mentally to get himself to that point. And you know what's neat about Kobe? Folks don't forget youngest guy in the NBA is 17 years old. We not only got to watch him grow up as a teenager but we watched him grow up as a man and then a father and the whole thing come full circle. 20 years in the NBA.
Kobe Bryant is perfect for the leading edge segment. The 100,000 watt blowtorch for St. Louis sports driven by Auto Center's Nissan. Home of the 30 day return.
WXOS and WXOS HD1. East St. Louis 101 ESPN. The Metropolitan Amateur Golf Association is a proud sponsor of golf with Jay Delsing. The MAGA has been the USGA Allied Golf Association in the St. Louis Central and Southern Illinois region since 1992. The MAGA provides over 30 days of competition opportunities and conducts qualifying for nine USGA Championships. While supporting more than 140 member clubs with amateur golf services.
Find all of their information at METGA.org or call 314-567-MAGA. We're halfway there. It's time for the Back Nine on Golf with Jay Delsing. The Back Nine is brought to you by St. Louis Bank.
Welcome back. This is Golf with Jay Delsing and we are entering the Back Nine. Before we do, I want to tell you a little bit about Whitmore Country Club. They're our title sponsor here this year for Golf with Jay Delsing. There's 90 holes of golf over at Whitmore. If you join Whitmore, you get access to the links of Dardeen, the Missouri Bluffs and the Golf Club of Wentzville. All of the cart feeds are included in that membership.
There are no assessments at any time at Whitmore. You've got to come over and see my friend Bummer. He's in the golf shop. He's the assistant pro. He is a terrific guy who can answer all of your golf related questions. Bill and Sales will help show you around the facility and you'll see a 24 hour fitness club. A huge pool complex. The golf shop runs skins games, members tournaments, wives tournaments. There's junior golf, junior tennis, junior swim for your kids. And there is a kids club in the main clubhouse where you can drop your children off. You can go have a cocktail. You can go have dinner. You can go play golf. The kids are well taken care of playing golf with other kids.
Video games. Whatever you need, whatever your family needs, you'll find it at Whitmore Country Club. Visit them at whitmoregolf.com. Okay, now let's go back and hear the remainder of the Bob Rotella interview. Doc, I feel like there are so many teachers that are trying to get their pupils to make this perfect swing. And not telling them, this game is hard. You're going to hit some foul balls.
Go find a foul ball and shoot a number. Well, you know what's so amazing about that is that if you watch the two best players for the last 20 years. Let's just say it was Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson. They're probably the two crookedest drivers of the golf ball. Now Tiger addresses it by, they keep writing articles about his golf swing. And most of the time he doesn't use his swing on a tee box. He hits a knockdown stinger, gets the ball in play and then goes and kicks your butt. Phil on the other hand just hits driver everywhere. And once he hits it in the woods, his whole attitude is all the birdies are in the trees.
So I mean very different ways of dealing with it. But everyone else is trying to drive it straight as if those two guys are driving it straight. I'm like, why don't you just watch what the best players are doing? It's interesting isn't it, Doug? When Tiger had some of his low points, it looked like he was taking away his artistry and trying to be a mechanic to me. And that is just wrong.
No question. Yeah, and I think the media helped him by just continually saying, well, he's injured, he's hurt, he's tired. And it's like he just, he got lost in it. I remember walking the practice round at Ball Hall of PGA when he came back. I mean it was just unbelievable where he was hitting, I mean he couldn't hit a wedge within 50 yards of the green.
So I mean even the best can get lost trying to get better because I'm sure he was trying to get better. You know, there's a point where I'm Tiger Woods, how can nobody teach me how to drive the golf ball? And the point is, on the driving range, he's pretty darn good. He looks beautiful on the range, but he's got some doubts in his head on the tee box with a driver. But like you said, when he played his best golf, he became an artist and said, I just want to go get the ball in the hole and I'm going to go kick your butt. You know, and he's pretty amazing, the career he's had. But I mean the problem is, every magazine and TV show, they keep showing videos of his driver swing as if that's why he's a great player. I mean how good's Mickelson's attitude? Last year he did a cover story on Golf Digest and the cover read, why I'm driving it so great this year.
I think he was like 170 something when he was driving. But it's beautiful that that's how he feels about himself. I'm not knocking on it and saying that's how good his mind is. I mean, how many people driving it that crooked would go do an article about why I'm driving it so great?
And now you've got all these people trying to hit it swing faster like him. And I said, well, he's getting more crooked. Well, you're sure that's what you want, but it's a beautiful world.
It really is. Doc, I remember that quote from William James that you told me and share that with us. And I think that is so valid and all walks of life.
What was it, Jay? You said something to the effect that we get what we spend the most of our time thinking about in our lives. Yeah, we are what we think about ourselves and we become what we think about ourselves. Yeah. And now you reminded me of doing an opening presentation when your sister opened up CK1. Yep. Yep.
And you dropped an Eleanor Roosevelt quote on that day. Yeah. Oh, you had me falling out of my chair.
No one can make me feel inferior but me. Yep. Oh, man. Yeah. That was fantastic. Doc, what a cool crossover now because I'm looking at some of your clients.
Merrill Lynch has been a longtime client, Pepsi-Cola, Coca-Cola, Time Life, Ford, GE. Tell the listeners that you're telling them the same sort of thing about their attitudes and their minds. Yeah. I mean, a lot of it is getting people to understand the idea that good is the enemy of great. And if you want to really be great at something, man, you've got to have a special attitude and, you know, other people aren't going to understand you or appreciate you. If you want to be like everybody else and have everyone understand you and appreciate you, that's fine, but you're going to end up being like everybody else. And for most of the people I've worked with, at least with their career part of their life, you know, they're trying to separate themselves from the rest of the world.
And, you know, so you've got to do the things that other people could do but choose not to do. Hmm. That is fantastic. I can remember doing, do you remember doing that talk where you asked me to come with you down in Scottsdale to the Merrill Lynch folks? Yeah. And I'm like, okay, sure, what are we doing? You go, oh, we're just going to talk to a few people. Well, I was up on the stage with what, 400 people or something with you and I looked at you, I'm like, well, let's just talk about what I know because I don't have anything else prepared.
Yeah. And they loved it because you talked about your mindset, you talked about your attitude, you talked about, hey, this is hard to do. It's hard to get in a great state of mind every day. It's hard to get in a great mood every day. It's a challenge for most people to believe in themselves.
You know, I mean, it's easy once you get to the top and everyone's telling you how wonderful you are, but the challenge is, can you believe in yourself before anybody else believes in you? And that's, you know, that's a lot of what we talked about, but I mean, it's, I mean, and everyone can identify with it because, hey, this is what everyone's going through. Yeah. And we have this tendency, Doc, as humans just to complicate stuff, don't we?
Yeah, we sure do. You know, I always use the example, Harvey Pennock, who developed so many great players, wrote the best selling sports book in history, the Little Red Book. Sold even a lot more than my golf is not a game of perfect.
That's impossible. It was just a wonderful book. I mean, but, but think about it, the best selling sports book in history, everyone bought it and told a friend to read it. And after they read it, they said, you know, it's a great book, but he didn't know anything about the golf swing because all he did was use analogies from other activities and they missed the whole point. Harvey was brilliant because he kept it really simple and tried not to get very mechanical with people, but got them to hit the ball and got them to go get the ball in the hole. And that was a lot of the brilliance of Harvey, but most people know it was a good read, but you know, he didn't know anything about the golf swing. No, he knew everything about it, but he wasn't about to go make people worse.
And, you know, I've been to the Austin country club many times while he was alive with Tom Kite and it's amazing how many scratch players they were at that club and they all adored the man, you know, but that's not seem to be what's going on today. They're trying to make it complicated. Yeah. Sometimes doc, I feel like when I watch on the golf channel, when I read in the magazines, it's not helping anybody.
Well, you know, you're probably right. I don't know if it's, it's probably helping somebody, but it's probably somebody who's already pretty darn talented. If you look at most of the great swing stories in the last 40 years of golf, you know, they're all people who were already junior phenoms. They already could score. Um, they had already won the U S amateur. They had already won the European champion. I mean, they're already great players. And now people like their golf swing, but they can always play golf.
Yeah, it's, it's really true, which we gotta be able to do doc. What would you speaking of that last year I played in the tournament with Bob Tosky, the great teacher who I'd say was the king of simple and he's 92 years old. And we played a really hard Ben Crenshaw course up in Cape Cod, Cape Cod called old sandwich, which is beautiful. And I mean, he played, he played so good at 92, we driving the ball, 230 yards weighs 115 pounds. And I mean, he got it in the hole and he hadn't played a tournament in like 15 years. And it was just amazing how good he was.
And then at night at the dinner, he would get up and sing Sinatra songs for the crowd. Um, but I mean, but I mean, it was pretty amazing watching a guy at 92 play golf the way he was playing and just have an absolute blast doing it. He's got one of the all time great attitudes, don't he doc? Uh, I don't think you could be more in love with yourself when you're on stage and Bob just, I mean, he just loves playing golf. He loves singing. I mean, he loves dance and he just loves people and he believes in people. And you know, I think that's what's made him so great. I mean, he believed in himself as a player and was player of the year and leading money winner and then became a teacher. And, you know, I think had this unbelievable ability to believe in other people and see talent in them and bring it out of it. And that's really what it's all about. I mean, it's like the first time I laid eyes on you, all I saw with talent, man, this is going to be fun working with a big stud like this.
Oh my gosh. That was so much. Doc, what would you say with all of the different sports, all of the different successes that you've had? All of the different sports, all of the different successes. Is there one thing, the biggest, the coolest sports moment you have?
Because I want to get, I want to ask you a question about golf moments after that, but I know you've seen a lot of great performances and been a part of that. Oh, you know, every time someone I'm working with wins a tournament or a major or makes a big time breakthrough, you know, that's what I, that's what I have a ball doing because I know the joy it brings them and how hard it is to get there. Um, you know, in other sports, I suppose when Kentucky and Virginia won national championships and it got a ring, it was pretty cool. Uh, it was, uh, you know, but there's, you know, I remember working with George Mason and Jim Larranaga, uh, and they went to the final four and they became the first team in history to beat three number one seeds in succession. The only time it's ever been done in college basketball. Um, you know, that was pretty cool. They didn't have anybody probably in the top 120 ranks as players. And I think they beat Connecticut, Michigan state and, uh, North Carolina or somebody, you know, in succession.
It was pretty amazing. And so, I mean, you just have a lot of fun when people start believing in themselves and get out of their own way, so to speak. Right. And doc, so the listeners need to know you're a, you're a really, really good player. Are you still a two handicap doc?
Yeah. I mean, I've had a lot of fun. I, you know, I played a lot of golf in the last bunch of years and I've had my moments. I've won several city championships and club championships. I've won the Virginia state super senior with me and my partner, Paul Quigley.
We won the national senior senior last year, which was fun. I've had the course record at my home course of 62, which was 10 under, which was fun. But I mean, you know, when you hang around guys like you, you realize how good you are as a golfer. I mean, it puts everything in perspective. I mean, people don't have an idea really of just how good tour players are. I mean, when you guys are playing at your home course, it's just ridiculous how good you are and how easy to make it look.
It's just, it's a whole nother level. Let's go to wrap up the back nine, but we've got more of this Bob Rotella interview. Come back for the 19th hole. This is Golf with Jay Delsing. Doster Olam and Boyle LLC are a proud sponsor of Golf with Jay Delsing here on 101 ESPN. The firm was started in January 2015 by Mike Doster, Jess Olam and John Boyle, three veterans of the St. Louis real estate, banking, commercial and corporate legal landscape. The firm was founded on the shared view that success should be measured by client and community satisfaction, not profits for partner.
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I'm your host, Jay, and we are entering the 19th hole, and this is the Fine Drive with Jay segment brought to you by Dean Team Automotive. A couple weeks back, we had Sean Dean on the show on the Leading Edge segment, and we talked about the golf cart division that they have over on Manchester Road. And anyone that's interested in a customized golf cart has got to get over there and see these folks. They make and put this and customize your cart together right on the premises. And that goes a long way for knowing what you are getting and the value for what you're paying for those golf carts.
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So visit my friends at Dean Team Automotive, and they'll handle all of your car buying needs. All right, let's go to the conclusion of the Bob Rotella interview. Doc, did you have anyone or anything really surprise you, like anybody's performance or anybody's accomplishments?
Did any of that surprise you? Because I know that you are, like you said about Tosky, you're a huge believer in the folks that you work with. Well, I would say, yeah, that's probably the biggest thing is how many people that you look at, and all you see is talent, and boy, you see unlimited potential. And they don't see it in themselves. I mean, a lot of it is getting people to see in themselves what I see in them when I'm with them. And the problem is you go out in the big world out there, and there's a lot of false experts who want to tell you what you can't do or what's wrong with your game or whatever, and put doubt in your head. And I think most of the great ones have developed an unbelievable ability to absolutely resist socialization and not listen to people who don't totally believe in them.
And, you know, it's probably one of the biggest mistakes you see human beings make is believing in false experts who just want to tell them what's wrong and what they can't do. I mean, you work with basketball players, they're 6'11 and so good it's ridiculous, and sometimes they don't see what you're seeing, and you've got to be able to get them out of their own way and turn it loose. Like I've worked with Coach Calipari, the Kentucky coach, since he started at UMass. And you'd be amazed at people that you'd look at that are unbelievably gifted and talented and, I mean, certainly hard working, but on game night, you know, it's a struggle. And a lot of it's belief, like in basketball, you'll see guys, as long as they're playing with a B team against the A team, they're unstoppable. You move them up into the A team and they'll never take a shot because they don't think they deserve to shoot, you know.
It's, you know, you start seeing people's picture of themselves being exposed. It's interesting, Doc, remember when Shaquille O'Neal was having trouble at the free throw line and everybody was like telling them, bend your knees Shaq! And all this other crazy stuff and we were watching a game together and we're like, who is the guy that convinced Shaquille O'Neal he couldn't shoot a free throw?
I don't know. And it's interesting because in every other part of his life, he seems to have so much confidence and self-belief that's amazing. But, I mean, you know, I love Steph Curry and how he plays and how free he is, how much fun he has. And yet, if you read about him in high school, until his junior year in high school, the coach couldn't get him to shoot. Well, they worked on that. They've worked that out, haven't they?
Yeah. And you know, the high school coach said he finally got him to shoot by breaking it down and saying, okay, I want you to take four shots every quarter. If you'll take four shots per quarter, that'll be 16 a game. If you take 16 shots, as good as you are, we'll win most games.
And he said, Steph, that suddenly made sense, but he said, Steph was very worried about being labeled a gunner and having the other guys in the team not like him. And when you're a good guy, you have to be able to get past that and not see it as a ball hog or a gunner and see it as like, this is what I'm good at. I need to use what I'm good at if we're going to help this team be successful. And in teams, like you talk about in business, I mean, you don't want everybody to have the same skills.
You got to have a team, there's a bunch of guys that have different skills and utilize what they've got. Doc, you know what's interesting on the PGA Tour, the caddies have become a much bigger part of this thing. And so I know that the modern day players that you're working with, I'm sure you're talking a lot to the caddies as well.
Yeah, I'll tell you, here's an interesting thing that I keep bringing up. It's like, so like, teachers, sports psychologists, we cannot do any coaching once the round starts. And what's happened in golf today is the caddies go to most of the lessons, they sit in on our sessions, they read our books and they're out there coaching like crazy. I mean, there's some players out there who, God knows if they could play, if they didn't have the right caddy, tell them everything. And I go, why is it that you allow caddies to tell them this much information and not coaches?
I mean, it just doesn't make any sense. And as caddies have become more and more educated and they're making more and more money, yeah, they're playing a very big role in the game. And, you know, it's kind of like now they've added these green reading books. It's like, you know, it's almost like they want to take green reading out as a skill.
I don't know what the solution is, but I don't like what it's doing. Yeah, I mean, I can remember watching Jordan Spieth, even when he was really good, he and Michael Greller, I mean, Jordan's kind of jumpy by nature anyways. Man, Michael Greller had to go, you know, put himself in a dark room after some of those rounds, I'm sure.
Yeah, yeah. And what's really impressive is when caddies and players stay together for a long time. And, you know, some players are really great and treat their caddies like best friends and buddies and other guys that, you know, not that way. And they're hard on caddies. And it's very fascinating. But the bottom line is it's become a big part of the game of golf.
And they're making a lot of money doing it and having a lot of fun probably. That's another show in the books. Thanks so much for joining us here today. I hope you enjoyed the Bob Rotella interview and our little insights on Kobe. And we'll see you next week. Golf with Jay Delsing.
Hit him straight, St. Louis. That was golf with Jay Delsing brought to you by Whitmore Country Club. Tune in next Sunday for more from Jay John and the other pros and experts from the golf world. In the meantime, you can find all of Jay's shows at 101espn.com, as well as at jaydelsinggolf.com. .
