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April 22, 2022 6:00 am
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I am Jim Daly and I wanted to remind you about a very important Supreme Court case that's being argued this coming Monday. You may remember the case of high school football coach Joe Kennedy where he was fired in 2015 for simply going to the 50 yard line after each game and praying silently. He never forced anybody to join him. He just knelt and prayed and for that he was terminated, will coach Kennedy is finally going to get his day in court.
It's Monday at the spring court and we would encourage you to pray for Coach Kennedy's legal team and the justices were going to hear the case.
To help with that effort. We've launched a social media campaign along with our good friends, and family policy alliance skull, pray 50 and course every day is a good day to pray, but we want you to especially pray for this Monday and if you go out on Sunday with friends, family members and those you know church find a football field and go to the 50 yard line. If you can and pray for Coach Kennedy to help you in that regard.
We've created a website you can go to and will have more information therefore units called pray 50.com that's pray 50.com. Thanks for praying and mining Christians.
We want to breathe.
Now you want to has been lovely sloughing one help with the kids right we want to be good wives that encourage him fruit really is what is God doing in my height and I really trust that God is going that's Dr. Julie Slattery, offering encouragement to any wife who is faced disappointment in marriage and she is with us again today on Focus on the Family your hostess focus president and author Jim Daly and on John Fuller John last time we started a insightful conversation and primarily were addressing wives and their relationship with husband.
Husband. But we did get the last two needs of wives and at the bottom of the program. So if you missed it. Go back and get a download get the download on your smart phone and give the focus act that way or contact us and will figure out a way that you can get it.
That's the point. It was really good and I'm looking forward to the discussion. Today, men that are listening.
Stick with us.
Although were addressing a lot of this content toward wives and how they treat their husbands. There is a lot in hereto for a man and how to treat your wife so this is for everybody equal opportunity instruction and I'm looking forward to that. I learned some things yesterday that I need to do differently to help my relationship with Jean and edited 35 years is a good there's always room for a refresher course and I really wish it would. Julie and I had to share and I think a lot of help your for both wives and husbands. Definitely you and Dr. Julie Slattery is a clinical psychologist. She is president and cofounder of authentic intimacy which is a ministry to teach God's design for sexuality and is part of that ministry. She was a podcast called Java with Julian Jim she you mentioned this last time Dr. Slattery was actually in the studio here with us for years with Elmhurst so it's always great to have her back and that wouldn't be talking more about the content in a book that she's recently revised. It's called finding the hero in your husband revisited embracing your power in marriage and you can learn more about that book.
We've got all the details in the episode notes and let me also mention that word and have content today that isn't going to be appropriate for younger listeners so please appearances, be aware that Julie welcome back. Thanks for having me. It's so good you are hitting at least from my perspective you're hitting so many great points for marriage to be so much better if you're a seven the signature to 10 if your three. This will get you two and eight I think at least and I love that II love when you use those examples of your audience, primarily women and the effect that you see so doing things differently and turning toward God's word to look for those answers really is the right way to go. So I'm looking forward to working to talk about today and welcome back. Thank you. Let's get right into it submission.
There's a wet end of the so when it comes to submission. I can't think of a word that stirs up more energy and more negativity than that one. But the Bible does use that word. What is it me.
Well I think first of all, we have to address Wyatt staring at so much negativity and dad in there a lot of women that as soon as they hear that where there like they want further's my phone across the room.
I turn off the radio. I think it conjures up weakness and from that women wait a minute on the weak woman but you know what is it hey what nerve is it hitting countries that like he said the idea that maybe God wants us to be weak. Our last stand, but I think in today's day and age we hear so many stories and women that are in abusive marriages and have stayed in that situation because of a wrong understanding of submission right I am in the middle of the meeting in the church to move mangling then abuse this town. Yeah, there's a reason for women to be upset and abused in the churches entities in the Christian Harmon Silla. I think we're in an era today where it's become so painful for many women that I just want discount that altogether like let's just take a big red pennycress out in the Bible where describe why it doesn't apply to today's marriage but it is seeking a it's not primarily because Paul wrote this in a couple of his letters is because marriage is a revelation.
It was created to be a human relationship that reveals the nature of how God loves his people and so when Paul does teach on this in the Scripture.
He saying in marriage you're creating something in your relationship that points to Christ's relationship with the church and said the way a man loves his wife, and raise his life down for her the way of one-man response, or has been, it's not just about your marriage, you're painting a picture of what how Christ loves his people and so we can't so easily just dismiss it.
But we do also have to wrestle with how it's been misused and harmed when you had a really funny and lighthearted story about you and Mike taken a trip in Colorado that alludes to this thing of submission. What happened yeah so we are driving out to the mountains and you guys know this dry well kiss 11 Colorado Lake. I usually drive when we drive in the mountains because I get carsick if I don't drive so there's this long stretch of highway and its two mains and there's nobody usually on it. Highway 24 so you make those same ways. My hands and knees like this is time where you can go a little faster and make up some last time and set up so I was already going a little over the speed limit. He's like angels you can do more and faster sales so start going faster and when she know it we pass a police officer and we see the lights and I'm like I was so mad at him like this is your fault like you tell me to go faster. He's like I know I know I'll take care of it.
You just be quiet you know I like you, I will take responsibility. This is my fault.
I'll just tell you nice pretty upset so that civic police officer comes to the window says you now faster going in my has been immediately says I just want you know it's my fault.
I was telling her to go fast and officer says show.
Should I write you the ticket and Mike was like yeah if you need to take it. So the police officer goes back to his cruiser and were waiting in attention. I'm looking at my head and I sorry you right and so about five minutes later the officer comes back and he says to me ma'am, I'm not can write you ticket phenomena give you piece of advice. Next time don't listen to your husband best lesson. There is a fine story but I do think it shows that there are times where women should not listen to their husbands. There are times where husbands are taking relationship with the family or just making decisions that are ungodly or unwise and if a woman thinks submission means always is going along with things. She's not understanding what God is actually calling her to do.
I wonder in that healthy biblical context. Give us examples were that works where there's tension and or there's a need for resolution. What is a healthy expression rather than us just talking about the negative side that what does a healthy challenge look like yeah really good question Jim. I think we have to understand it.
Submission is an attitude of the heart. I when we look at Peter's letter and to the church he talks to wives about having a quiet and submissive spirit, and then he uses the example of Dean of the biblical and he's example of in that passage doesn't come to reread how great it Sarah, okay, he says be like Sarah and don't give into fear. Now if we look at the story of Sarah and Abraham was Sarah quiet woman doesn't seem so now she she has lots of opinions very saying she had a quiet and submissive spirit. And so submission is about your spirit is not about whether your mouth is moving its the attitude of I'm gonna take you down with my words and ability up with them even if they're constructive words of criticism and the other thing Peter says don't give way to fear out when women don't have the right spirit in marriage there giving way to fear in one way or the other. Either they're afraid to use their voice and become weak or they give way to fear by being manipulative and controlling dominant and so submission is really how do I use my power in a way that's not reacting with fear and there's all sorts of applications to this event.
For example, let's say a woman needs to confront her husband's pornography use one way of being fearful is unlocking to confront accident get mad another way. Being fearful is yelling being demanding I you get this taken care of right now that's not inviting intimacy so she would approach this where first of all, bathed in prayer, but honey or something very important that I need to talk to you about. I'm aware of your pornography use and it offends me. I believe it leave it offends God because it's not his design and this is true in all my situations. I know that this is something that started when you were a teenager or younger, and I know it's a battle and I'll be with you in that battle, but I'm not okay with this going unaddressed.
While that is powerful because I my guess would be that of man's greatest fears that if this is exposed by loser may explain fighting through right and we talked about. We've had some broadcasts of the progress that's where your definitely go to folks on the film's website or contact us to help find a way to work through the get to a better place. Julie let's turn toward the physical intimacy and asked some questions in this area. A lot of people get uncomfortable at this, I get it.
If you're thinking Jim why you cover the subject. It's because we need to me we have left this to the world to define and to give proportionality to, but this is a biblical principle. The idea that God gave us the gift of sexual intimacy in marriage as his gift to us and we need to reclaim that and teach our children about it so that context you describe how you grapple with this intimacy issue early in your marriage how to deal with what were the frustrations you were feeling I'd probably didn't deal with it very well.
Early in my marriage. I the frustrations I had a partially ways I and all candidness. It was enjoyable for me and a lot of women experience that in marriage were like well I guess this is a gift for the husband but not for me, and I think the traditional way of approaching that situation is sort of the way that I approached. It was, I guess it's my duty as a wife to meet my husband's needs and that wasn't necessarily a bad attitude to have wanted to have a servant attitude about sexuality, but I will say that it keeps a couple and he kept us from the fullness of what God designed sex to be in marriage.
Can I ask you in that regard.
What do you think with the women that you counsel. How many women have the perspective is not enjoyable for me. I do it out of obligation, I think, pretty hot. I think it's probably around 60% or more and that that makes it something important to talk about what did you learn over the years with Mike and how did you know your psychologists call I always say, I get in any way too long to learn and that's what you know for the younger wife whose right where you were one of the 123 things you would say think of it differently or how do you get out of that obligation feeling wealth.
I would talk to the husband to because I think that the teaching has been misguided to the husband. That's good. I when we talk about sex and sexual restraint for singles. We have no problem saying God wants you to use self-control. He wants you to value him more than you value getting your own needs met and for some reason we feel like once we get married we should ever have to use self-denial or self-control is related to our sexuality and I think the teaching traditionally has been to a man once you get married you should get all of your needs met sexually in marriage, and now your wife is obligated to do that and that has hurt so many marriages hurt so many women because women have felt like even if for 30 years I never get any pleasure out of this God wants me to keep giving my body over and over again and for women that have had sexual trauma they can feel we traumatized, they can feel like they're just objects to their husband. They're not being loved and nurtured and so I think that this sort of simplistic approach to sex and marriage is something we need to take another look at and promote the husband and wife and to really look like at at a passage in first 20 and seven, which is often used.
To get that kind of teaching and say actually what Paul is saying is that the sexual relationship is a call for both the husband-and-wife to minister to one another. That's good and may need to be encouraged. If your wife has pain during sex. If she has trauma in her past. If she's not enjoying it. The burden in some ways is also I need you to say how do I minister to my wife emotionally and physically. How do we understand the complexity of how she's created sexually. I like on the healing journey with her and not just say no I get my needs met. Regardless, it's I really think that there needs to be a paradigm shift where a couple says God created us for healthy sexuality and we are going to pursue intimacy, not just check the box of activity and I think that was something that really helped to me as a wife, and helped us in marriage and make something that's been a challenge for a lot of couple Julie is so important to provide some practical handles for people.
I'm sure there's a lot of women and some men that are going while okay we have not related to each other in a biblical healthy way.
So let's encourage couples to go on offense and do this better. What are those practical ideas of people can apply what's the playbook. Yeah.
So first of all it's really asking the question how my using my power in marriage. If your wife how my using my power to help my husband feel respected how amazing my power in terms of what I have to offer that ask you this. In that regard is so important.
Getting to what's real and sometimes we can obscure that even when were asking ourselves the question we don't see it because were blinded by it. So how does a person really objectively see how am I manipulating the marriage and really be able to see the answer, well, you could ask your spouse is yeah and I've asked my husband this when I wrote the first version of this book 20 years ago I went through my three areas of power and I asked him how he's doing and he can give me as good of a report card. As I hoped he would unite he help me understand and see is hard to hear but how I could be manipulative and he started to even call them my Jedi mind tricks like one time he actually said to me, I was talking about something he does.
Wait a minute, just the second any he raised his hands up like an automatic window going up. He is okay. Manipulator shields are activated like a fine way of reminding me and showing me that hate be careful I got. That's good.
I'm feeling manipulated and both husband and wife need to have a teachable heart and I think we can get so defensive and feeling like I have to be the best way for the best husband that we can't hear where were missing the mark, but really just having that sensitive spirit towards the Lord and towards one another of do better. I know I haven't done this.
Well, maybe even growing up I didn't see the best examples, but help me do this better because I want to be the best husband and wife I can be for you. Will you use playing offense are used within the question.
But you say playing offense is really important as a couple. Describe what that looks like that idea of the you know we have, especially with physical intimacy. What is playing offense. Yes it playing offense is even I use that in reference to physical intimacy because I think a lot of times all we do in marriage is think about the defense like how you ask how to make sure nobody's using porn.
How do we affair proof our marriage and there certainly is a time and a place where we need to have conversation about keeping on defense and having our guard up. But if all you ever plays defense, you never win. You never think about what you know and you know we have a God who place offense all the time like that takes ground back to playing offenses, asking questions like how can intimacy in our marriage be greater a year from now than it is today. How can we share more of ourselves.
How can we learn to look forward to being together physically. What would be fine, and even how do we get set free from some the things that are keeping us from enjoying this one of those difficulties that I've learned is you know, especially for the woman who grew up in the church. It was no no no no no no no no no no no I especially for the woman that abided okay no almost to brutality her and then she gets married and then she say how do I flip the switch. Yeah, it's hard for a lot of women. I think some the mess settle messaging in the church has been more that women are supposed to be the sexual gatekeepers like it was assumed that men would have sexual desire and that that was going to be a difficult thing for them to steward but women were almost told not to be sexual right and so they don't know how to awaken those desires. They don't know how to receive those desires is something that is God-given and good and for a lot of women named Nietzsche actually go back to the Scripture and look at the song of Solomon and retrain their understanding of biblical sexuality so that not only they can say yes to the husband that they can first even just say yes to the desire God is put within him. That is really good that's a great observation 15 years in your marriage. You and Mike.
You know that you had this revelation of giving it over to God that you know some women ride our say I did that your seven other women are saying not to marry 30 years. I haven't done that yet describe that experience and how God gave you peace about giving up control and giving up manipulation to the best of your ability. I'm sure there still is a little bit of luck is real and yeah, it helps to write a book on it because you have accountability that it wasn't just giving up control of my marriage. I think it was like a shift in my whole relationship with God when they know how to work hard and they know how to work hard in marriage, like, what percentage of the marriage books you think are purchased by women that prayed you were always working on a marriage that we sometimes work the wrong way and that's the way I was working I read in devotional recently that talked about the difference between focusing on the fruit versus focusing on the route and how as modern Christians we want the fruit of a good marriage. You want to husband love us well. We wanted to help with the kids.
We want we want to be good wives that encourage him. That's fruit. The root is what is God doing in my heart, and do I really trust that God is good and I think I hit that wall probably about 15 years in my marriage where I realize that a lot of what I was doing was rooted in pride thinking I knew better than my husband was rooted in fear of what would happen if he made the wrong decision with this or that and really getting to the point where I was investing at the in the roots of what is that look like to just want to honor the Lord now want to fix my husband now to fix my marriage that's fruit but just want to be a woman who honors the Lord and what we see in Scripture is that when the REITs are healthy then the fruit starts to come out healthy and it's been a joy over the last say 10 years or so just to see the fruit that comes from someone says it is being rooted in the word of God being rooted in the spirit of God and just letting God take care of the fruit in his own timing. Julie, there are wives whistling right now who are doing all the right things.
The things you talked about the have given up that mega control.
The been praying for their husbands, encouraging the but they're still not seeing fruit that may have been months that might be years.
How would you encourage the woman that wife to keep going even when it's not happening. I would say first of all fruit isn't always just in your marriage that fruit is in that you can change your husband. The fruit may be very silent for a while people are watching you. Your children are watching you and people around you are watching the witness of the woman who is faithful through difficult circumstances, a woman who is seeking wisdom and seeking wise counsel when she doesn't know what to do and to don't underestimate the fruit ultimately God sees you and I'm not gonna stand before God with my husband. I'm in a stand before him alone and I'm in a give account for how he stewarded everything that he's blessed me with a many give account for how I stewarded my role as a wife and a mom and God sees the choices you're making to honor him and it also saved do still seek counsel like if your marriage isn't nurturing to you.
You need relationships that are nurturing you need friendships and you need wise counselors to let you know where you draw boundaries so that you not continually wounded in your marriage. So there is an element of making sure that you have people around you that are helping you navigate that difficult situation that's so good and Julie were out of time. Thank you so much for being here. Number one seeing you brings us great joy and just saying you know how the Lord is blessing your ministry to women and men. It's really good to see how God is using you.
Thank you for rewriting the book which really help many many people let me turn to our listeners know this resource is really important. It's an important book to go to have, to give to friends.
If you're in a good place. I would keep your eye open with those couples in the church that you know that you know the Lord's. Let me know they're hurting. This would be the kind of book that would make the difference in their marriage and if you can make a donation of focus for any amount will send it to you as our way of saying thank you and if you can do that on a monthly basis is the sustainer that helps us even more so consider those two ways one-time gift or monthly gift and will send the book to say thank you can afford it will get it.
Just give us a call. Don't be embarrassed and will trust others will cover the cost of the Julie mentioned this earlier, but focuses here. It is a heap of storehouse of resources to help you in your marriage. That's our goal. Plus we have counselors who can talk with you will probably have to call you back but you can call and asked to talk to a counselor and they can give you some perspective. The perspective that Julie is referring to its free were doing this to help you in the name of Christ on the supporters supply the ability for us to do that. I'm grateful to each and everyone. So get in touch with those we been doing this 44 years over 44 years. You're not going to shock us. You and you can call to schedule a free consultation with one of her counselors could also donate when you get in touch and then be sure to get a copy of Julie's book, finding the hero in your husband revisited embracing your power in marriage.
Our number is 800 the letter a in the word family 800-232-6459 or click the link in the show notes. Julie, thanks again for being with us always my pleasure, thanks for joining us these past couple days with Dr. Slattery and I hope you have a great weekend with your family and church family as well join us on Monday when pastor Mark Batterson describes why manhood rightly understood, is something to celebrate, and cultivate the tough guy is not someone that can plug your nose with black and and I someone who's willing to hang on the cross someone else. Sin on behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team.
Thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family I'm John Fuller inviting you back once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
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