Does Living Together Help or Hurt?

I was tired and I was ready to walk away from our marriage. Abby's husband serves in the military, which means a lot of family moves and a huge strain on their relationship. But through our podcast, Abby found hope for her marriage.

I don't believe that we would be where we are today without focus. I'm Jim Daly. Working together, we can bring real hope to more marriages like Abby's.

Give today at FocusOnTheFamily.com slash real families. And then I said, you know, so tell me a little bit about, um, your practices right now. Are you living together? And they said, yes. And I said, uh, how does your current situation, and I'm just thinking of the woman at this point, fit your spiritual beliefs with regard to living together before marriage. Is this congruent with your spiritual beliefs?

And she started crying. Well, Pastor Dave Gudgel is our guest today on Focus on the Family, helping you and your family navigate the topic of cohabitation. And your host is Focus President and author Jim Daly.

And I'm John Fuller. John, I don't think I'll surprise anyone with this stat, but it's more common today for a young adult, say 20 something, 30 something, to be living with a boyfriend or girlfriend rather than being married. I mean, if you think of that, that's a stunning statement. And I know because we hear from you here at Focus on the Family, many of you are dealing with that issue with your young adult children, or maybe you're that person. And we definitely want to talk to you today about what God's expectations are, what the healthiest thing for you is. And so often, John, here's the thing, God's boundaries, I don't even want to call them rules, but his boundaries for us are meant for our good. And somehow we've got to do obviously a better job communicating that to our own children so that they can embrace those boundaries, knowing that this is the best way to go. Yeah, he designed marriage for a very specific reason.

And when we short circuit that path, there can be problems. Well, we have Dr. Dave Gudgel with us. As I said, he's got over three decades of pastoral counseling experience and has talked to a lot of young couples over the course of his time in the pulpit. He's a husband and dad of three children. He's got 11 grandchildren and is lead pastor at Bridges Community Church in the Bay Area of California. His book is called Before You Live Together. And we do have copies of that here at Focus on the Family.

Look for the link in the episode notes. Dave, welcome to Focus on the Family. Thank you.

It's a privilege to be here. One of the main reasons couples live together before getting married is because they're not sure this is right. And so we just want, and this is kind of the excuse that they'll give, is we want to make sure that we're in love and that we can play house together and those kinds of things.

And this is Christian young people too. The statistics aren't that different. You came from that place of uncertainty when you were courting your wife.

That's kind of common, right? Uncertainty is part of the blessing of marriage. You're not going to be absolutely sure that this is perfect.

Yeah, not sure at all. I mean, for me, I thought that Bernice was the one that I ultimately wanted to marry, but I needed some help. And I went to a friend, a mentor, and he gave me some good information. Essentially it was, you need to marry her. So he talked you into it. That's a good friend. It was nice.

He cut to the point, you know. But it's really, it is a key question because I think that's oftentimes the response that a parent is going to hear from their 20-something child that, you know, mom, dad, I just don't know. And I thought, you know, Bob and me doing this would be really a smart way to go so we know that we're made for each other. Why are couples today so afraid of making a mistake rather than doing it God's way? And, you know, just trusting that the Lord, if He's given you the green light, if you had a good mentor say, hey, she's the one, and you're praying about it and you're listening to the Lord, jump in.

Yeah. You know, what you just said, Jim, is so true. I mean, a lot of it is connected to what they're thinking, compatibility. And we need to figure out if we're compatible or not. You don't buy a car without checking it out, right?

So we need to take this thing for a drive. And they begin the relationship oftentimes that way in terms of living together. Speak to the fear issue, though, I mentioned. It seems like we inject a lot of fear into our Christian children about do's and don'ts.

And if you do that, you know, you're going to get this. And I mean, I think generally they can be a very fearful group of people rather than a positive group of people that are fearless. Yeah. And I think part of the fear is what they see in our world and what they see in other relationships, kids that they are friends with, other students, whoever, and their parents got divorced or they've been around the home and seen them yelling at each other or whatever in the home was just a terrible place to be. And they don't want to go down that road. So, you know, one of the things they think they can do then is to prevent that from happening is by living together and checking each other out.

And it's really it's unhealthy. And we'll get to all that data soon. But that is one of five reasons that in your book, before you live together, you talk about what are the other four reasons that people will give as to why we need to test drive? Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think of compatibility as one.

I think of them actually as C's. OK, so you got compatibility and you got the cash, you know, finances. It's just a lot cheaper for us to live together instead of like roommates. Yeah. Instead of living in two different homes, we'd much rather live with each other.

Are you kidding? And then there's the companionship factor. You know, God made us to share a relationship.

It's two are better than one. And you can justify anything and put yourself into a living together relationship just out of loneliness. And of course, culture today says it's OK. You know, that's normative. Now used to be wrong to live together. Now you're like wrong if you don't live together.

And so culture's gone that way. And then also, I think of love. Well, we're in love. So why not? Right. Well, and in fact, one of the common things will be what does a piece of paper do to make our love for each other any different?

Speak to that. I mean, there is the government recognition of a union between a man and a woman, but there's much more to it spiritually. And that's what we as Christians need to zero in on.

Yeah. And I think there are a couple of ways we can look at that. But one is just from the biblical perspective, when was a person married? And I always go back to John chapter four, where Jesus met the woman at the well, you remember, and they had that amazing conversation about water and how he could give her something that she didn't have, and she needed it. And he really surfaced that need when he said, You've had five husbands, but the one you're with now is not your husband. So she evidently was in some kind of a living together arrangement with another man, a sixth man in this case, and he didn't recognize it as marriage. So even right there, you've got what you're just talking about is that there's something more than just living together that constitutes marriage. Of course, in that world, there was the commitment, there was the pledge, you know, the signing of the contract, so to speak, the unconditional covenant. It seems to me that God's heart is about covenant marriage. You know, we don't talk a lot about that in the Christian community, but it's not a contract.

No, I mean, this, that's what the state gives you is a contract. But what God's talking about is a commitment, a covenant marriage for life until death do us part. That's what the Lord's heart is for us, correct?

Absolutely. And I heard that when we went through our premarital counseling, it was as clear as it possibly could be when the pastor that was counseling stuck his finger into the air and he said, No, Dave, you've got to understand this commitment, this covenant commitment that you're making to each other. You're getting married on January 10th, 1976.

So everybody's doing the math on that now. And so that's the day where you're making this covenant commitment before others and before God. And you're going to have in the course of your marriage, you're going to have this line of commitment that you're making to each other. And they're going to be times where you're going to be really excited about your relationship and things are going to be so easy. And other times you're below the line and you're thinking this is crazy, but you got to come back to the commitment. And that's what keeps you in the game. Contracts don't keep you in the game because you can break a contract if you can find a way, a loophole. But in this commitment, you don't want that loophole. You got to fight through it so you can have the marriage that God wants you to have on the other end.

Dave, let me take a minute here. I want to talk directly to parents who have children living with a boyfriend or a girlfriend. One mom wrote to us here at Focus and asked one of the most common questions for parents in this situation.

And I want to read this comment from her. She said, we received a call from my son last week and he was informing us that he and his girlfriend have decided to move in together. Now again, this is a focus on the family constituent, a listener, Christian home, I'm assuming.

And this is pretty common. Yes. She went on to say he is very open to hearing our heart on issues. We told our son that we don't agree with him living together and that we feel it's against what God wants for them.

He said he understood, but that it wasn't going to change their minds. And then the question, how can we still love them and support them and have a relationship with them without condoning them living together? So everybody's leaning in now that is in this situation. Yeah.

How do you answer that? Well, first I would want to say, please, no, you're not alone in this. This has become commonplace in the church. It's become commonplace in practicing born again Christians.

So you're right there. In fact, the church that I'm at now, when I started there 10 years ago, the first five premarital counseling that I did were with couples that four of them were already living together. Four out of the five.

Four out of five. In the church. But I mean, in terms of your part in helping them, to me, the main thing is, is that you want to continue the relationship. Do not sever the relationship.

Whatever you do, if you sever the relationship, you don't have a chance to continue to influence. But that really does beg the question, how do you do that? How do you engage your adult child to say, boy, this is really not what I expected. It's I know, displeasing to God's heart, but I love you.

And where do you go from there? Well, and I think that's what you've got to say. I think you've got to be honest. You have to be clear. You have to speak the truth in love. And so all of that, the child needs to hear where you are, where your convictions are, where you believe the Lord wants them to be. So don't hold back on that. But then at the same time, I don't think you want to foster their living together.

So don't start, you know, enabling that in any way. Dave, we've got some friends who are in this situation and they've just taken it upon themselves to not only love their child, but also to love the boyfriend and to say there's a ministry opportunity because he doesn't know Jesus. And how is he going to know Jesus if we don't show him love? In other words, if we just show a condemnation because, you know, scripture says this is wrong, then how is he ever going to understand the grace and love of Jesus?

I totally agree with that. And I've seen parents impact their children because they worked through it. They continue to pray with them over it. They didn't compromise their beliefs and what they did in terms of how they helped or didn't help their kids as they were getting ready for marriage.

But they stuck through it with them. It's a real opportunity for grace and ministry. So Dave Gudgel is our guest today on Focus on the Family and we have his book Before You Live Together.

Call us for a copy or check the episode notes for a link. Dave, there was a couple that came to you for premarital counseling and they were planning on living together, but you were able to talk them out of it. Again, parents are saying, what did you say, Dave? How did it work? And it's going to be different. But for this couple, you were able to convince them not to.

What happened? Yeah, it just depends upon what happens in the sessions. But of course, I'm always looking for opportunities to speak truth into the situation. And I often begin with a couple that I don't know. And in some ways, you could even relate this to parents with their children.

I know they obviously know them. But I began with, tell me a little bit about your spiritual beliefs. I've got to get a sense of where they are spiritually.

And that's always fascinating. This particular couple, the woman said, man, I love God and he's been very much a part of my upbringing, my family. And so he's very important to me. And then the guy said, well, I don't really have any relationship with God.

And so I'm not really there. And I said, well, what place, this is the second question, would you like God to have in your relationship? If he's going to have any place in your marriage, what would it be? And she said, yeah, I'm just really up on that. And he said, well, I'm open to it, you know, that sort of thing. And then I said, you know, so tell me a little bit about your practices right now. Are you living together? And they said, yes. And well, I said, how does your current situation, and I'm just thinking of the woman at this point, fit your spiritual beliefs with regard to living together before marriage?

Is this congruent with your spiritual beliefs? And she started crying. I mean, you know, she was really, really crying. In fact, I had to get up, walk over, get the Kleenex box and bring it over.

So she was convicted. Yes. And I think that's why these questions are so important or questions like that, because sometimes, you know, nobody's asked them the questions.

And that was the beginning of a breakthrough. David, it's hard. I can see that conversation happening successfully with a pastor who they're coming to you for input. They're looking for wisdom. They're probably anticipating you're going to go their direction, but a parent may not be able to have that conversation, or it's going to be awkward, or it's not going to be received the way it will be by, you know, a stranger, if I could say it that way. So how does a parent go about challenging their daughter in this case and asking those same questions?

Would you encourage a parent to kind of stick with that same outline? Yeah, to some degree, we're seeing the value of questions over telling, right? Let's ask some questions over telling.

Yeah, and this is not the time to lecture. But I think that you can say, honey, you've walked with the Lord all these years. What place do you want him to have in your marriage?

And hopefully that will come. Would you like to get married? That's really like the woman at the well that you referenced earlier. It's very much what Jesus was saying.

Yes, it is. And we know that 95 percent of young adults want to get married. So we already anticipate that she's going to say or he's going to say, yeah, I want to get married. What place do you want God to have in your relationship?

Well, honey, how's that going to work out? You know, the Bible says in Hosea 10.12, and I'm not saying you've got to use this verse, sow righteousness and you will reap the fruit of unfailing love. Now, that's a huge statement there because couples, one of their fears is that the love won't work out, the relationship won't work, and they'll end up getting a divorce like everybody else that they see. So I always look at that and I think to myself, okay, we want to help them reach unfailing love in their marriage and their commitment and that sort of thing. And Hosea 10.12 says that's the result of sowing righteousness.

So, honey, if you compromise your faith right now, that's a setup toward ultimately losing love. Dave, I think this is a good place to ask about some of the data. I referenced that a moment ago, but what happens generally now there's always outliers. We get that. But in the data, when you look at couples that live together and not married, what is the typical future?

What are some of the greater pitfalls that they face, et cetera? Well, let me just make it as clear as I can first. Then we'll see if we get the muddy part of this coming. But of eight couples that live together before marriage, four of them are going to split up. They'll never marry. Four of them will marry. Of the four that marry, three will divorce and one will live on from there. So that's a 75% divorce rate.

Absolutely. In that group if you live together before marriage, that's frightening. It's frightening.

So those are eight couples that live together before marriage. It's not a good potential future. There's also other risks. I mean, it's a more dangerous environment typically for the woman, et cetera, correct? And especially if that woman is bringing children into the relationship.

Absolutely. The potential for conflict in the relationship. I mean, there could be aggression, abuse, all of that can be a part of it, abandonment. So yeah, adultery often comes because of how the arrangement got going and the sort of conditioned-based relationship that they have.

So if you perform long enough and well enough, then we'll get married or we'll stay married. So something has to change back to what we talked about at the beginning, some kind of covenant, unconditional commitment law. Right. It is different. That's the point. It is different when you are committed versus having an exit door.

It just makes your behavior different. And you see that in the data and the surveys. You refer to these as the three elements.

Statistics is the first. Soul wounds is the second. What are the soul wounds?

Yeah. So when you do go down the performance-based relationship road, that if only or if then, it can hurt you when it doesn't work. You know, I'm not loved because I don't perform well enough or whatever it is. You know, Proverbs 4 23 says, guard your heart because it's the wellspring of life. And one of the places that this really can hurt a person's heart is emotionally and the emotional connection. I did a two-hour call-in program out of this area where the third caller said, listen, let me tell you my story. We lived together for two years and then we got married. And then shortly after we got married, we found Christ as our personal savior. And she said, and now we're in intimacy therapy counseling.

I said, wow. She said, tell me a little bit more about that. And she said, we're in intimacy counseling because we don't have emotional intimacy in our relationship. And then this is one of the greatest challenges I think that potentially can happen is the couple has not built an emotional connection. It is absolutely crucial to happy relationship. Gallup did some studies some years ago and found that the number one factor of happiness in marriage is friendship. It's an emotional connection. It's that filial love. Yeah. And it's so critical and it's, you know, it doesn't shock me that data science is backing what the Bible's talking about.

You know, that we are built for commitment, relationship, et cetera. Dave, let's address the spiritual ramifications that last of the three. You met a woman named Nicole who lived with her husband before they got married. And you say her experience is pretty common among Christians who cohabitate. What took place there?

Yeah. So we did not have a long talk about this. I got to hear a little bit about the story and I think she shared the story with you all, but it has not turned out well. And I'm not surprised because like I said, when the relationship oftentimes is built on the physical, the emotional is stunted and the spiritual is almost like non-existent. And that's what took place in this relationship. And as you mentioned, Dave, Nicole did share her story with us and we have a clip of her describing her thought process before she started living together with the man who would eventually become her husband.

And when she and this man were dating, here's what Nicole said she was thinking about, about them living together. Our relationship at that point, both of us, with God was not firm enough to say, oh this is wrong, or I knew it was wrong and I felt deeply convicted, even tormented sometimes, about the decision I knew that I was making was wrong. My husband didn't have that same conviction. And so that should have been a red flag in the beginning, you know, that I felt really convicted and he didn't because obviously we're unglued yoked.

So for somebody who's thinking about moving in together, they should really think if they're feeling these things about not really being sure, but their other significant other isn't, then that should be a red flag for them. We just moved forward and I just shoved those feelings down and I did it because I really wanted it and unfortunately I completely did an about-face on God, you know. Dave, you hear that in her clip, even the unequally yoked, she says it in such a way of shame that she hadn't thought that through. Why do so many young Christians ignore that conviction of the Spirit? Yeah, I don't know what happens there other than I think Satan does a good work, you know, he's the liar and the deceiver and the destroyer, and he will cause people to think that they could be the exception to the rule. So you know, the Scripture says sow righteousness, sow it. That means it's something that you have to do repeatedly over and over and continue to make really good choices.

Here's the problem. When a couple's living together before marriage, oftentimes it's going pretty good. I mean, in the immediate, it's really looking really good. But you know, when we're talking about the law of the harvest, which is a law of sowing and reaping, you don't see the results of that for a while.

You're not going to see it in the same season. So often right now, everything will look good, and this is another way I try to help parents help their children. You know, honey, this isn't the law of Pinocchio. What's the law of Pinocchio?

Well, if you do something wrong, it'll show up on your face right now. Well, this is the law of the harvest, and that is the result of God's work in you. And what you want to do is you want to sow righteousness. What's righteousness? It's knowing what's right and doing what's right no matter what. And if you know what's right and you walk down that road, that's where you're going to see God's greatest work in you. And I think of, you know, often in a wedding I'll say, hey, listen, if you had these qualities in your marriage, would you be happy, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control?

And of course, they're like applauding. Yes, of course. That's the man I'm looking for. That is the man I'm looking for.

But that is the result of sowing righteousness, of walking in the Spirit. And that's what we want to help our kids do. That's what we want to help couples see. Dave, we're coming right in for the landing on this.

And I know people are saying, I wish you would ask this question. So I'm going to just take a stab at it. You know, one of the things that you mentioned was being kind of stuck. It sounded like even the data stuck in a bad marriage. And I made this mistake. I lived with them.

Maybe they're the three and four that are on the road to not making it. How do we as Christians together as a community improve that statistic? How do we try to save more than 25 percent of those marriages that started in a bad place? And have you had those couples come back to you for help to say, we're in trouble. I feel like I'm stuck because we were unequally yoked. We had lived together. We didn't set this up properly. But what do I do?

Do I divorce them now or do I stick with it? Yeah, I would encourage them to stick with it and continue to work on that relationship. But of course, work on your relationship with God and the relationship that you share with God as a couple. So I think about a triangle.

Just a simple triangle, three layers. The bottom, the foundational layer is spiritual, the middle is emotional, and the top is the physical. So oftentimes what happens is the spiritual and the emotional are neglected. You've got to work on the spiritual commitment that you share.

The love of sacrifice agapies right there. And then you've got to work on that emotional connection. The number one reason women in America get a divorce is a lack of emotional intimacy, a lack of an emotional connection. So work on your emotional connection.

And most men are going, say that again. What does that mean? But you've got to work on it. And we'll save that for another broadcast. Definitely. Dave, this is so good. Thank you for your willingness to dive into this tough topic.

We don't cover this very often. But we do hear from a lot of parents who are struggling with their young adult children who are living together. Let me turn to the listener. If you feel powerless in this area as a parent, and maybe you're even worried you're going to lose your relationship with your child over the issue of cohabiting. Get a copy of Dave's book before you live together. It's the biblical advice you need to tackle this in a loving and truthful way. If you can give a gift of any amount to focus, I'll send this to you as our way of saying thank you. Or if you can't afford it, call us anyway.

I trust others will cover that cost. And to those of you who are able to give to our ministry, I want to say thank you. You are the reason we're able to continue standing for biblical values in a society where truth is more and more unpopular. Your gift is bringing real hope to parents needing help, couples considering divorce, and families who are struggling. So thank you for being on the team and keeping our ministry going strong. Well, you can join the support team and get a copy of Dave's book when you call 800-AFAMILY or stop by the episode notes and the link will be right there for you. Dave, thank you again for being with us.

My privilege. Thank you. Well, be sure to have a great weekend with your family and your church family as well. And then join us on Monday as Dr. Gary Chapman and Arlene Pelicane will be sharing some inspiration for how you can stay off your phone and spend more time with your children.

We all have the same amount of time every day. It's just how are we going to invest it? And I like to say to parents, think in terms of what is the time that my kid is sitting on the screen? What is it teaching them? What do they come away with? And how is it impacting them?

Because it is impacting them. On behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ. You've read accounts in the Bible of how Christ impacted so many people, but we really know very little about the lives of those early followers of Jesus. The Chosen, I Have Called You By Name, imagines what life was like for those who followed Christ. Based on the widely acclaimed TV series, The Chosen, this Focus on the Family book by bestselling author Jerry Jenkins brings color and depth to the people surrounding Christ. You can find out more at focusonthefamily.com slash chosen.