This episode is supported in part by the Christian Standard Bible, a translation designed to be faithful to the original text and clear for everyday readers. We're grateful for their partnership and helping bring gospel-centered content to families like yours. To learn more about the CSB, visit csbible.com. When I tried not to nag, because I was like, I'm not going to nag, then I became resentful.
So I swallow the grenades daily. And Samuel's like, so how many fights did we have today? And I said, about 10. He said, how many did I win? I said, none.
Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson. And I'm Dave Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is Family Life Today.
Welcome to Family Life Today. And you're in for a treat today because we are going to be playing a panel of women that we had on the cruise. And men. And men. Not just you women.
We're going to do the men first.
Okay. But I think this was one of my favorite times on the Love Like You Mean It Marriage Cruise, 2026. Yeah, Ann and I got to host. I hosted the men's panel and hosted the women's panel. And, you know, I had Chris Brooks, Montel Jordan, Samuel Rainey, and Ron Deal.
And I had Yodi Brooks, Kristen Jordan, Stephanie Rainey, and Julie Slattery. That is a powerhouse group of men and women.
Now, we got into some stuff. Real stuff. Let me just say, stuff that we all deal with.
So enjoy the men's panel as we jump into talking about passivity. And we're going to be back in a few minutes to tell you how you can sign up for the 2027 Love Like You Mean It Marriage Cruise. Yeah, it's interesting. We had Brant Hanson on Family Life today. Brant actually did the men's session a couple years ago on the cruise.
And one of the comments he made, and I want to hear your comments on this, is we don't have a toxic masculinity problem in our country, which we've heard a lot about. Right. And of course, there is some of that. He said, we have a toxic passivity problem in our country. And when I look at Act Like Men, you know, be strong, stand firm, there's a part of me that, you know, one of the pillars that Robert Lewis talked about way back, where he talks about even writes a passage in, what's his book?
Men's Fraternity. Yeah, Men's Fraternity and... Raising a Modern Day Knight. Raising a Modern Day Knight, that's it. Is, you know, a real man, it's the way I phrase it, rejects passivity.
I do a four pillar R-E-A-L, a real man rejects passivity. And I used to look at that passage, maybe you have as well, you know, where Adam and Eve are in the garden and Satan comes as a snake to tempt and Adam, you know, is right there. Like Eve's here, he's sitting there or standing on a stump or whatever, and he does nothing. And there's a part of me that has looked at Adam and go, dude, you know, step up. How could you not say what God told you to say?
And then I look in the mirror and I'm like, oh see see how many times have i done that so talk about passivity okay so i i don't know about you guys i'll talk about me um i can be very intentional and proactive as a dad as a husband i can be thoughtful i can be what do i need to do how do i get this da da da da it is when i face my insecurities that's when i become passive in other words when eve looked at adam and said hey honey, this is the thing. And he's like, oh, I guess I need to be what you want me to be in this moment. He goes passive. Like when my wife looks at me with criticism, I get all discombobulated. Like all of a sudden I think I'm not, I can't be sober minded.
I can't be in self-controlled anymore. I've got to react and tell her what for, because I don't want to embrace her criticism. Are you with me?
So it's sort of like when other people look at us and don't affirm and don't build up and don't tell us that we're okay, that's when we become the people. We don't act like men anymore. We act like boys. And so I think that's the trick is learning. What is it in me that is stuck?
Why do I have this insecurity? What's that about? And it's my job to put on self-control when those moments happen so that I don't just become reactive to somebody's criticism or somebody's dirty look or whatever it is. I still need to be who I'm called to be. Have any of you guys ever identified passivity in your marriage?
For you? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. What area? Your wife has probably told you what it is.
Mine has. Yeah. You know, so what has she said? Is there an area? Name it.
Spiritual leadership, financial leadership. You've done it. Yeah, I've done it. Absolutely. How do you step out?
40 years. I've done it all. I've been passive been all of it, you know? And what do you do when you realize I'm not leading? You go back into humility.
You go back on your knees and you say, Lord, I need you. I don't have it all. I need to grow. I need to learn. I need you to bring people into my life.
I need your word. I need to figure, you know, you go right back to the basics and you ask for help. Yeah. I think when it comes to passivity, I think a lot of times men, if they don't know how to deal with that, we become passive aggressive instead, which is where we allow our manhood and our malehood to give off the acting of strength as opposed to us actually, you know, leaning into the idea that, hey, maybe I don't know how to do this. And if the Bible is telling us that it's in my weakness, I'm made strong, then I think that becomes the place I can lean into.
Maybe I don't know, but I'm willing to figure it out. I'm a man enough to be able to say, I don't know how we're going to get through this. I don't know how we get through this financial challenge, But because I the leader you know and because God is looking to me to take the headship of this I willing to go and I willing to even fail and I willing to figure it out you know and so it doesn fall on the shoulders you know of our wives And there is a huge awesome paradox in what he just said And that is you know the world says manhood is you stand up you take charge you got all the answers You direct everybody because you're the one who knows everything. No, no, no, no, no. The weakness, the acknowledgement of my need for God, my humility is the standing up.
Right. And that's the thing.
Now I'm a teachable leader.
Now I'm joining you in let's figure this out. And I don't have to stand tall and act like I know everything. That's intimidating. Yeah. But I think we all know that none of us like doing things that we can't win at.
I don't like doing things that I can't have success at.
So the areas where I'm passive are going to be areas where I'm not seeing success, right? And so for years in our marriage, and this may be a surprise because I'm a pastor, it was spiritual leadership, right? And this is an area for most wives who are married to guys who are in ministry, they kind of expect, man, you're going to bring that home, but you're giving out, right, publicly, and so bringing it home. But I had this picture in my mind, man, I was such a great parent before I had kids.
so i had this picture in my mind of how family devotions were gonna go man i was gonna walk in my smoking jacket ask out on uh open up our family heritage bible there'd be a light shining on the perfect verse my and all your children be like well groomed they're well groomed they're on the couch. Father, teach us your wisdom. And man, reality was nothing like that. My kids are at each other and it's like pure chaos. And I'm like, this is not how a family devotion is supposed to go.
And it took me a while to realize sometimes the definition of success is just showing up. Other times it's just being faithful. It's just being faithful and letting God handle the rest.
So I just, I've had to learn to give myself grace. Like sometimes it's easier to give that grace out to others, but I've had to learn how to look in the mirror and give myself grace too. Yeah, one thing I wanna say about the first Corinthians passage is, it says, be watchful, act like men. And I think something that a lot of men sorely lack is somebody that they can watch and somebody that they can learn from to know what it means to be a man. Because you're watching television, you're watching social media, you're watching the media, you're watching all these public figures and you're absorbing all of the messages from them that are telling you this is what it means to be a man.
They're not telling you what it means to be a man. You need people in your life that you can go to and you can ask questions. You need people, you need men in your life you can go to and say, teach me what it means to respond better to my wife. Teach me what it means to respond better to my kids and so that I can learn how to be a man and that I'm not having to make it up on my own. Did you have somebody you could look for?
You know who his dad is, right?
Okay. I want to get your comment on. You've already said it, but I realized for me, I was leading strong at the job. For me, it was ministry. And somewhat you said, Chris, I was like, I think I know how to do this.
I don't know how to lead her. I don't think I'm really good at leading my boys. And they were young at that time. And so I felt like I can bring it here because I've got skills and people are saying you're good. I come home, I'm hearing you're not so good and you don't do a good job.
And she wanted what you wanted. She wanted the halo and the Bible and give the sermon tonight that you gave this morning. I'm like, that doesn't work.
So, but I realized I just needed to flip energy. I brought a lot of energy there. I wasn't bringing it here.
So talk about that.
Okay, I think there's something to what you're saying. And absolutely, there's a, do I need to flip my energy? How do I need to bring a better me? but I actually think the story is a really good example of the, okay, so when what's mirrored back to me is not telling me I'm good enough, I become a boy. Yeah.
See, he's counseling me right now. Here we go. Want me to lay down, Ron? Yeah. You can go at it.
No, so I want to shift the question from how do I show up in a way that proves to her that she's important. See, what I just did is I gave you the different question. The different question is, what is she really saying? What she's saying in that moment of criticism is not, I need you to show up and do more and be more. And what she's saying is, are we as important?
Because when you bring that much energy to the work world, I don't see that much energy to our world.
So are we important? It's a question of love and significance. That's the thing I need to tune into. That's the thing. And it's not about, I'm a failure as a husband and I got to prove myself that I'm successful better than she thinks.
No, that's not it. The issue is, huh, she needs to feel important. I got to tune into that and register that and wonder that, pray over that. How can I bring some energy to the equation and at the same time realize that I'm never going to get that insecurity out of her heart. That's something she's going to have to work on, but we're going to be a team and we're going to try to do this together.
shift the question away from what does this say about me to how can I attune to her or us? This is Family Life Today, and we are listening to a panel that we did on the Love Like You Mean at Cruise. That was the men's panel. Coming up is the women's panel, but let me tell you, you need to be on the cruise with us next year. Yes, for sure.
If you've never been on the Love Like You Mean at Marriage Cruise, I'm telling you there's nothing quite like it in the country because you're seven days on a cruise, you're having fun, you're eating well, you're going off on ports, but you're also getting this biblical marriage tools and training and just time to talk about it and process it together. Yeah, we didn't even say anything about the pool and the sun and the water slides. The saunas. I went down every water slide You did And the music and the comedians I mean it just it a marriage conference on a boat for a week and it refreshing and it awesome And it February 13th through 20th 2027 And you can save big now through March 31st. All you have to do is click the banner at familylifetoday.com to learn more about the cruise.
And you have to book before March 31st to get this sale deal. And it sells out quickly. All right, let's get back to the panel. Oh, to the women's panel.
Okay. What do you wish you would have done or known, or maybe something, is there something you wish you wouldn't have done walking into marriage? I think for me, I was the quintessential businesswoman, right?
So I was very about, take authority, I got this. Very counterculture to marriage and very counterculture to the way that it should be done in a good way. Like, so for me, I didn't learn how to submit. I was one of those that took the hard route. God says, humble yourself or be humbled.
How many of you have taken the hard route? Oh, dear God. Always pick A. In case you're new at this, always pick A. Humble yourself.
So I had the awesome privilege of learning the hard way and God would redeem the time, if you would, and allow me to cook breakfast, lunch, and dinner and speak blessings over my husband every day, which seems crazy. But the truth is, is that I didn't learn how to humble myself. And so God was teaching me how to speak life over him, how to speak blessings over him, whether he was acting like that or not. That's what our breakout's on, actually. Acting like that.
I get that. How do we know, so we're going to get into that conflict of when to bring something up or when to just let it go?
So I have the auspice and the thought process, and I had to learn this, be clear, I did not arrive here. This is, I'm a work in progress. Because I used to be very... Confrontational? Yeah.
Yeah. But that would only cause arguments, right?
So what I... I only know because that's what I do. Man, we learned the hard way. But what I learned is that 95% of the things that I need to talk to him about, I need to pray about first.
So I pray first. And I only say if the Holy Spirit tells me to say.
So that's really the key because the truth is, is that when we say, if we haven't prayed first, then that's you and you're bringing your own stuff. Whereas if Holy Spirit covers what you're about to say, it's going to come off way better. The eloquence will come over me when I don't really have the eloquence, especially if it's something that's a nagging issue or a reoccurring issue or something that's a hot topic. And so a hundred percent pray about it before you say it. Yeah.
Now I forgot the question.
Okay. How do you know when to bring it up?
Okay. So this is something that's kind of cute.
So when we go to wedding showers, a lot of times people go, don't sweat the small stuff. Don't say the little things. Just don't worry about the toothpaste. And they get to Samuel and I, we both kind of grin and we're like, sweat the small stuff. And let me elaborate on that.
What we mean by when we say sweat the small stuff is the small stuff become bigger stuff if resentment is wrapped in it. Oh, preach. Does that make sense?
So if the small stuff matters, so like going back to his clothes being the blessing on the floor and he doesn't get it, he doesn't see it. I don't know how, but he doesn't. When I say, Samuel, I feel so unloved when you don't pick those clothes up off the floor. There's six of us here. Could you help me out by picking those clothes up?
It just makes me feel loved. He's like, oh yeah, sweetie, thank you for telling me that. I set him up to win and I win too because my love language is acts of service.
So one of the resentment things that I always carried was he didn't, the bed wasn't made and I had all these things. What can I do to help you in the morning? I said, honey, if you could just make the bed in the morning, that would be great.
So when I walk into our room, so when I get dressed, there's this love letter. And so the other day... That's such a good way to say it. Yeah, I mean, you're saying that it's because what we want to do when we're speaking to our husbands, we want desperately to be heard. And when we're in this fight or flight and we're yelling at them, they shut us down.
But if we speak in a way that they can hear us, which we all want, they become the men we want them to be instead of the boys that we think they are. And if you want your man to be a man, you got to treat him like a man. Amen. And so I think that's the biggest thing is like, if this, like Yadi was saying, this is my one man for the rest of my life. I want him to be the best version of him.
And so I want to set him up to win. And so when I do that, I don't resent, oh, he didn't make the bed today. He probably was in a hurry because I put those grace glasses on. Y'all, this is not for me. This is literally the Holy Spirit keeping my mouth shut and teaching me these things because my flesh wants to fight, wants to, but when I pray and say, okay, how can I set him up to win?
And when I text him, which is his love language, which is words, thank you for my love letter. He's like, oh, he gets it in a way. And so y'all, my bed's made 90% of the time. Yay for me. That is genius.
Isn't it? Did you hear the wording of that? Like, this is where we need to go as women. And even to pray, like what you're saying, James says, if any of you lacks wisdom, what should they do? Ask.
Ask. And then pray because God answers.
So you're praying, honey, when you make the bed, it's like a love letter to me. Wow. Instead of why can't you make the bed in the morning? Yes. I do everything around here.
I tried that for 10 years. For 10 years I did that. It didn't work. And so I was like, okay, fine. I'll pray.
Oh, here's some words. That wasn for me That was from the Lord And it was like oh thank you Y it the little things They do matter They do matter Thank you for that Because you just giving language because a lot of us have this thing in our mind that we don't want to be the nagging wife. Yes. Correct. And it's kind of like the opposite of like the Proverbs 31 wife.
Like we feel like she's awesome and amazing, but we could never be her, right? Like, please don't expect me to be that. But we also don't want to be the nagging wife either. and a lot of times we don't know how do I do that? How do I handle that?
How do I take what I'm thinking in my head and take it through a filtering process that helps me to bless my husband in a moment where I could be like, you know, throwing daggers? Because when I tried not to nag, because I was like, I'm not going to nag, then I became resentful.
So I swallowed the grenades daily. And Samuel's like, so how many fights do we have today? And I said, about 10. He said, how many did I win? I said, none.
and that's what happened inside me. I needed Jesus so bad. I'm so glad.
So do I. It's desperation. Desperately. It doesn't come natural. This kindness isn't a natural thing.
Yeah, I noticed some of the, like you guys are saying, you're the fighters and there are women in here who are fighters. For me, I by nature am more the peacemaker, which has a strength and a weakness because early in my marriage, I wouldn't bring things up that I needed to. And so there are women in here who feel that way. Like you don't know how to fight. You're not that strong sense.
Sometimes you feel maybe your husband is stronger than you. And you need to hear that there are times that you have to bring things up and it takes courage to do that. Has that happened for you, Julie, that you've had to really work through, like, I'm gonna bring this up? Yes, yeah. And so for me, a lot of it's prayer, but when I see patterns.
So when I notice patterns of not just the little things, but what do those little things represent? And if I ever feel afraid or I feel unheard or unloved, and it's a pattern, for me, I have to really pray for the courage and the wisdom to know how to bring it up because it's going to cause a conflict, and I don't want the conflict.
So I know there's probably women sitting here that it's not natural for you to step into conflict, but we need to. We need to. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's interesting that you said that.
And as I hear you saying that, one of the things I want to them to hear you say is no matter if you're a strong personality or a non-strong personality, in a non-hot time, bring that up. Yes. Like I think one of the problems that we have as wives sometimes is that when we're in the midst of the situation, we want to bring up and you did this and you did this and you did this in a non-hot time. Yes. Let me preface.
This is how this made me feel. It's not about you did this, you did this, you did this. When this happened, this is how this made me feel. And if you take it down a notch in a non-hot time, what you're saying will be received with kindness, with love and actually curiosity. And when he's doing something that's a pattern that he's done over and over again, lean into it with curiosity.
why do you do that why is that important for this to happen this way and when we lean in with curiosity it makes him have to stop instead of fight and now he's got to think and so that takes him and disarms that fight pattern and I think too that's so practical and good I think too as a couple don't forget we're a team and so you're going to focus on I just did this last week where I had a beach ball on my lap and I wrote the word problem. He is not the problem. You have to figure out what is the problem. Is it the clothes on the floor? Is it, is it, what is the problem?
Because the enemy is constantly telling us he's the problem. You could be happy if he would just get his problem under control. And the truth is we all have problems that we carry.
So focus in on one problem at a time when the problem's not escalating in the moment. Yeah. Non-hot time. Yeah. Non-hot time.
I like that. You're listening to Family Life today and man, I don't know what you thought, but I love those men and women's panels just because the honesty, the realness, but also the practicality of how we can live these biblical truths out. Yeah. Well, what's interesting is your women's panel was right after my men's panel on the boat.
So I went up to the room and watched it. You watched the women's Yeah, it's sort of like I felt like I was sneaking around like, hey, I'm watching the women's panel. We're not in there, but we can watch it on our TV in the room. And I tell you what, it was phenomenal. I remember talking to another husband who said he cried at the end watching.
Of the women's panel? Yeah, he said, you know, just watching you women talk and how you challenged the women and really spoken to them at the end. And it was powerful. And I'm telling you what, that was just a snippet of what happens on that Love Like You Mean a cruise.
Well, and let me add, I've heard so many things, even still, from men that were on that cruise panel and who were in the room listening. Like, man, I just needed to be reminded that God is with me of the power we have as men and how we influence our families and our kids.
So well done, Davey. The whole cruise was worth just those two men and women's panels. Honestly. And just let us say again, you can join us next year, February 13th to 20th, 2027. We'll be out in the water again on the boat.
You'll hear more talks just like that. And there's a sale going on right now until March 31st.
So just click on the banner at familylifetoday.com and learn more. And I hope you sign up and join us next year. family life today is a donor supportive ministry of family life a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most
