I really think that's a very good idea. That women were created in such a soft and tender way. But notice I said soft, not weak. I have this gift that women, we can impact any room we're in and it doesn't mean we have to be the loudest, hold the highest title. It's just through how God made us that we use those gifts.
It's our influence. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson. And I'm Ann Wilson. And you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.
This is Family Life Today. All right, we are in. Dallas, your hometown. We got the Parrs, Jennifer and Alan Parr. our set.
This set looks different because we're at NRB, which is National Religious Broadcasters. And so this is a makeshift set. And we knew you guys were here. We're like, we want to interview Jennifer and Alan again. When you were in the studio the last time, Jennifer, you were sharing some dreams that you had.
Yes, I was in a pivotal season where I came home about two years prior to seeing you all last year. And I was just in the season where I was asking God, like, I'm no longer working in corporate America. You've called me home just to be more present, a present wife, a present mom, just a better human in general. Give me a little bit more capacity. But in the midst of that season, it was like, God, how will I be able to use these gifts that you've given me to continue to thrive, even in my home?
And I mentioned to you that I've had to unlearn so many things as a woman and what success looks like. From success that I had in my corporate job to now what success looks like at home.
So out of that, through these learnings, there's like just a desire that's been birthed about redefining success for women and what that looks like.
So I put my heart into it and I've got a podcast called Winning Women Podcast. That's the new change. That's exciting. Alan, what did you think about all that?
Well, I always tell people, if they're considering this, that it really, it needs to be something that both the husband and the wife consider together. But it also can't be, in my opinion, something that the woman feels forced to do or feels obligated. What was beautiful about our situation is that Jennifer felt this strong need and calling. To come home, which is very interesting. And she can share more about that because she loved her job.
She absolutely loved her job. It's one thing to come home whenever you don't like your job and you're just like, I just want to get out of here. But she really loved her job and was really thriving in it as well. But trying to be a great corporate person, trying to be a great wife to me as our ministry was growing and she was wanting to support me. Our kids at the time were three and four.
It was a lot. And the Lord really put it on your heart to say, hey, I need to be present. Yeah. I mean, for you, Jennifer, was it easier or harder? Absolutely not.
As Alan said, I loved my job. And I think it's hard for us, just in general, not even just as women, but in general, to surrender something that we've worked so hard to do. Yes. And we get a lot of our identity from that. Yes, I did, which was what made that season so hard.
I think when you've worked so hard for something, whether that is to reach a certain status level, to reach a class level, a financial level. And for me, I went to school for communications and I finally landed a job that it just was my dream job. That your dream company, too. My dream company. It was everything.
It was everything. And so when you feel that tug from God and you feel that something stirring up, it's hard to be like, but. You gave me this, and now you don't want me to thrive in this area. And so I wrestled with that thought for about a year. And that's why I say it's not easy.
I will never sit here and say, Oh, yeah, I just heard from God. And next thing it was, like, I'm coming home. Even the financial sacrifice. Yeah, that was something that we had to consider. And, but it's been.
Life changing for our family because she has completely and thoroughly thrived in this role of motherhood and supporting me and. And you're not as stressed anymore. You're sleeping now. It's a different kind of stress. Yeah, but you're actually going to say.
Before you were not sleeping with insomnia big time. Oh, yeah. Because you're thinking about the job. Yeah, she couldn't turn her brain off. Yes, yes.
And it's actually been a sweet invitation into a softer life, which I really think. That women were created in such a soft and tender way when we're given the opportunity to operate from that space. It just lines up with creation and how God created women. And some, but just hearing that word, some women are instantly like, I'm strong. What are you talking about?
Soft. Don't flip it. Yeah, that's what I think is really important because women can bristle. But notice I said soft, not weak. That's it.
That's what I mean. There's a difference. Me too. That's the difference. And that's where.
It's not like if you're soft, you're not weak. And it's not even that if you're softer, you're not strong. And it doesn't mean you don't have a voice. Exactly. It's just using it in a way that can be heard instead of so powerful that you're dominating everything.
And I've even seen how leaning into that softness, I think the softness of a woman really. Balances the toughness of a man. And Alan, he has always been a leader, always been a provider, always just been so strong in my eyes. Yeah. I noticed that the more I lean into letting him thrive in that, it allows me to thrive just the way God created me.
Once again, not weak, but it's like I have this gift that women, we can impact any room we're in. And it doesn't mean we have to be the loudest, hold the highest title. It's just through how God made us that we use those gifts. It's our influence. It's our influence.
The power of influence changes. Hey, Alan, you and I could probably leave. We're just going to have a conversation. Yeah. Hey, let's go get some barbecue, man.
I know a place. I got it. Dave, I mean, because, and we just mentioned, like, we have a book coming out. You've seen the same thing because There's a reason why we as women have to remain powerful or strong. And I think it's out of fear.
Talk about that. What do you mean? Do you think some of that comes out of fear? It's out of fear. It's also.
Out of control, we like control because we fear we don't trust. Yes. And then it roots even deeper into anxiousness. Yes. And because we're anxious about the outcome of something or what the potential outcome could be.
I mean, that's why I held on so long was because I was anxious about, well, how is our family going to do? I mean, what if something happens to Alan? And what if I just held on to all these fears and anxiousness? And that limited not only him thriving, but it limited me from just trusting God. God's like, I didn't give you all this for you to make this an idol.
I gave you all this to be successful. How I created you, but successful by trusting me. The success comes through me, not the job, not all the different things that we put our titles, our worth in. And I can understand too where some women are feeling that, the angst, because like I led a Detroit Lions wives Bible study for 35 years, and so often these women were incredible, gifted, but if they didn't, like I remember talking to one. Woman in our Bible study, and she said, I have got to get my law degree.
To get it, and I said, I feel like you're anxious about it, you're feeling that. She said, Yes, because as a woman, I know that my husband might leave. And so I have to be able to provide for my family financially. Have you seen that too? Of that, like, but.
What if I'm the one that becomes the provider? I need to stay in this position. And that's why, if you know, as I said, like, not weak. I think women, we can thrive. We have gifts, we have skills that we can use.
And if I ever were called to go back to work, it would just look different. I would have a more surrender-driven success. Oh, where I am surrendering. This opportunity. To work, maybe outside the home, but never, I just don't ever want to.
Changed my priorities again. See, when I was working, my job was my like priority, and that came before, if I'm being honest, spending time with God, spending time with my husband, spending time with my family, that was the priority. Taking care of even myself, yeah, you.
So, I do think that God does call us sometimes to use our gifts and work and provide, but. We just have to, the posture of our heart and how we do it has to be surrender-driven and not success-driven. Yes. And I want to add one thing too. I think every woman has a different capacity as well that we have to consider.
I mean, some women are able to do some things differently, you know. And I think every woman has to, every man too, for that matter, has to consider what is my capacity, right? If you have a certain capacity where you can handle lots of different things, then you might be able to do some other things, make some other decisions. But I just know that season. You were really drowning.
I mean, you weren't taking care of yourself mentally, physically, emotionally. And I mean, you will admit that, that you just, you know, but now that you're in this season, like you're able to go on walks in the morning, get your mind ready, you're ready to, you aggravate exercise, you're eating healthy, you're sleeping, you're getting eight hours of sleep. Yeah, I mean, you're taking care of yourself, which enables you to be your best self. To be able to take care of others. I mean, was some of that you were working before you had kids and then you had kids?
Yes, yes. I've always worked. I mean, I think when you're single, you know, you're using your strengths and your gifts and your education in ways that you want to thrive. It's just when you're called to give that up. Can you?
Yeah. That's, I think that's the hard thing. And that's why when I was, when I felt led to do that, a lot of the women in my family who are just strong women, they strongly encouraged me not to. They did? Yeah, because one, they, you know, they worked and they were all those, all those fears and anxieties, like, what if something happens to Alan or what if this or what if that?
They're the main providers. They're the main providers. Yes. But what I've seen success now just in how our kids are growing and how they have a present, not only do they have a present mom, they have a present father too. I mean, I'm able to support us and support our ministry in ways now where he can fully lock in and then he can step away and be a great father.
And so it's been just good for our family, but it was. Very isolating because a lot of the women that I know were like, why would you want to do that? As if, as if. Success cannot be found in just having, being present. Being present for your family.
Having your kids have a very present mom, you know, being available to pour into your husband. I mean, that's success. It's a different kind of success. It's that power we have as women. We create an atmosphere in our home.
And when we do like, and I think our kids and our husband can feel it when it feels healthy. Yes. Yes. So I wanted to get back to the softness of women. For you two guys, is that attractive?
Like what happens when Jennifer is strong. Have you guys ever gone through a phase in your marriage where, like, she is just super strong? Oh, yeah. He calls it spicy. Oh, yes, yes.
You're being spicy. Yes, absolutely.
So, yeah, we have what we call intense fellowships every so often. And I think that Which is common, it's normal, even when you're soft, you're still going to have those hard conversations. Yes, absolutely.
I think for me, and I would probably say for most men, I think. I don't ever mind whenever she wants to share her perspective on things. It's just about how she goes about doing that sometimes. And if it gets spicy and if it gets to be where it's escalated, tone starts getting higher. Because she'll tell you, I'm very much kind of even killed when it comes to communication.
Rarely do I yell. Rarely do I get random.
Sometimes I just need a good response. Yeah. Yeah. But I try to say very kind of, but. My wife here can sometimes get animated.
Passionate. Passionate. That's a good word. That's a good word. Passionate.
So, to answer your question, I personally appreciate. The softer approach because it de-escalates our intense fellowships. A gentle answer turns away ourselves. That's one of my favorite verses. Yes.
And it should be yours too.
Well, I mean, if we look at a few of our intense fellowships, and one thing that we always encourage, and we love how your ministry is just also for marriages, is that we have. A healthy relationship where we see a mayor's counselor just to help us navigate this. And in those Sessions, I realized: okay, is it about winning the argument or is it about? Making my, like, sharing my point, but I never want to like dishonor or disrespect my husband. And I learned that while sometimes we think it's important to get our point across, how we do that and the end result is not worth it.
If it leaves with your husband feeling disrespected, if it leaves with just, Unhealthy tension. And if I'm honest, when I get to those levels that he talks about, I don't feel good about myself afterwards. Right?
So it's like, Did I win the argument? But then now I feel like I don't feel good. And I just don't think that. That that's a healthy communication style, specifically. For women, I just think that we, our words are so powerful.
Our words can influence and impact the space, and how we use those words. Is valuable, which is true for men too. How we use our words, how we communicate, it makes a huge difference. It's good for our kids to see it done in a good way. I mean, how about the wife that's listening or watching?
and says, but I'm married to a pretty passive guy. He's not leading. He doesn't initiate spiritual things in our home. He's not bringing in enough money for me to stay at home. Yeah, I mean, again, that's, you know, the other side of this is the pushback to the woman's like.
Well, both you guys are married to. It looks like they're pretty strong men. They look pretty strong, and you're pretty satisfied with how they do that. My guy isn't that guy. And I've been on him to do that for years, and it's not working.
So somebody's got to do this.
So it's me. Yeah. What do you say to that woman that says, I don't want to be soft. I've tried soft. Nothing happens in our heart.
He never hears me if I'm soft. That's why I have to be loud. Oh, that's a hard one. That really is. And I have some friends that are in that situation.
And that's why I think when I talk about just softness and Alan spoke about just our capacity, I think as long as you all come to an agreement together, because sometimes Maybe there's a reason that he is that way. Maybe it wasn't modeled for him. He doesn't know what leadership looks like. And we as women may not be the right people to teach him that. You know, it may not be our job to be like, well, you can't do it.
All right, I'm going to show you how, what it means to lead a household. Our attitude is everything. And we so easily do it just like that. Like, yeah, oh, well, if you're not leading, I guess I'll have to do it. I can.
You're thinking like Jezebel. Can I be honest? I think it's a good thing. I mean, we think it, and I think it's natural for women to think that. I mean, there's times where we talk about this: the timing of when we bring things up.
I may see something and be like, Okay, he's not handling that well, but is that the time to tell him? Or is that the time for me to be like, let me show you how it's done? And I've done that before, and it's never ended well. Yeah. I don't know if we said this on FameWeb today, but we put it in our book that's coming out in May, because it's how to speak life without yelling.
We had this illustration where I had some friends coming in for Detroit Lions. We put this in the book. It's in the book. It's so embarrassing. I'm just sorry beforehand what you're saying.
Some friends are coming in for Detroit Lions game, and I booked them this hotel, and it's a Saturday, I think, they get to the hotel and they call me and they go, hey, there's no rooms. I'm like, what do you mean? They don't have rooms for us. There's like three or four rooms. I think you had even called beforehand to make sure.
So I call over to the hotel. Hey, just stay right here. I'll call them right now. We'll get this figured out. And I'm on the phone, and the girl's like, I'm sorry, sir.
We don't have any phone. She starts, this is pretty much the same thing. I would know I would be doing the same thing. Give me the phone. I can already see where this is going.
You would use that? Yes. Yes. You are. I finally get ready.
I am like, I'm whispering. Give me the phone. Yes, because now you're in execution mode. You're like, let me handle it. Because I'm thinking, get it done.
This is what I'm thinking. I will get this done. He is way too nice. I was being nice. He's way too nice, and I know how to.
I'll close the phone. I gave her the phone. I keep talking. Oh, so you gave her the phone. No, no, no, no.
He didn't give me. He threw it on the floor. Yeah, I think I threw it on the phone. It was, she was. He threw the floor.
He threw the phone on the floor. And then it sprung back to the wall because it had a cord. And then he walks out of the room and he said. Can I say this? No, she tries to get the room.
It gets on the road. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I have to say what you said when you left the room. No, this was after you didn't get it. No, you said it right when you walked out.
You said, he says, why don't you just cut it off, Ann? And he threw down the phone. Maybe this needs to be edited for me. But this is real. That's what it felt like.
It just started to be a little bit more difficult. I was feeling that guilt of like, but I thought, but don't worry, I'll get the room and that'll make up for it. She didn't get the room. I didn't get it. There was no convicted.
I mean, I just thought, was that worth it? But I love that you shared that because that's real. I think most women would think that, like, we don't even look at it as like we can get it done. It's just like, he may be struggling. How can we help?
But to me, what I've realized. And it comes up as takeover. Yeah, trust us. Yes. And what it is, we trust it to be done better.
It's pride. Absolute pride.
Okay. Out of here, let me get this part done. And I've seen, I think this is my year of God just revealing so much pride of thinking, I know I know how to do the relationship, I know what the kids need, I know and better community. I, I, who's that sound like the enemy? Me, yeah.
But is there, because we talked about this even on the flight coming down here, is there a Is there a thing like in the culture or even if you try to interpret Genesis in the garden. Is there a thing where men tend to be more passive? Women tend to be more prideful or controlling. I think it depends from relationship to relationship. Because I know some other men that are nothing but passive.
And I wouldn't consider myself in any way, shape, or form passive at all. Absolutely. I'm just, I'm more even in how I communicate. Yeah. But I'm nowhere, nothing.
I don't have a passive bone in my body at all. But I'm also not going to get on the phone with somebody and just like yell and scream and take over. Like, I'm going to get it done. Yeah. The way you're able to, the way he gets things done.
Yes. I'm just like. Did you say genius? Result-driven with like. 10,000 less words than I would have used.
The end result is still, he gets it done. And so, to that mom or that wife who wants to lean in, right? Wants to take over, husband is not providing, she just wants to take charge. Like what we said, I think that it is healthy to have a conversation. Why?
Because. One, just to approach our husbands and tell them, hey, I'm thinking about stepping up in this area. What are your thoughts about that? That takes a lot of humility instead of just doing it, right? That's one thing I've learned.
I would just do it because I thought it was going to be done better. But now I ask Alan, like, hey, what do you think about this? And then that gives him an opportunity to be like, well, now he has to kind of check his pride, you know, and be like, well, sh. I don't know. She's so soft.
That's the softness. It's beautiful, the way you see it. That's the softness. You know what, I think besides being soft, you want me to be soft. That's what you said.
I was going to say, that requires the power of the Holy Spirit and for us to sit with him and to be prayerful before we say it. It's just wise. Yeah, well, guess what? That was just day one with Alan and Jennifer Parr. We're going to sit down with them again tomorrow.
And talk some more about what soft would look like. Let me share this. If you like this podcast, you can share today's specific conversation from wherever you get your podcast. And while you're there, a simple way you can help more people discover God's plan for families is by leaving a rating. Do it.
A good rating. A good rating. And a review for Family Life Today.
So stay tuned. We'll be back tomorrow with Alan and Jennifer Harp. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry. helping you pursue the relationships that matter most. Yeah.
