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Hi, I'm Rob West. Money touches nearly every part of our lives, but scripture tells us it also reveals something much deeper, what we treasure, whom we trust, and ultimately, whom we serve. Randy Alcorn joins us today to talk about why the Bible has so much to say about money and why that's a good thing. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000.
This is Faith and Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey. What a treat to have Randy Alcorn with us. He's a best-selling author, the founder and director of Eternal Perspective Ministries and a trusted voice on biblical stewardship, generosity, and living with eternity in view. Randy has written 69 books, including The Treasure Principle, Money, Possessions, and Eternity and Heaven. He's also the author of a soon-to-be-released 31-day devotional for FaithFi, which we're excited to share with you in the months ahead.
Randy, great to have you back, my friend. Great to be with you, Rob. Randy, you opened the devotional by noting how much the Bible says about money and possessions. Let's start there. Why do you think God addresses this area of our lives so often in his word?
Yeah, I remember early on reading books by Ron Blue and Howard Dayton. And Howard had, this was in the 80s when I was a young pastor. And it just struck me what Howard was saying about the 2,300, whatever the number of verses were, where the Bible talks about money. And it seemed disproportionate, you know, because you could look at it and you could say, well, there's a lot of other things besides money that are very, very important. And we would probably think it would be pretty fairly low on the list, but it's actually very high on the list and 10 percent to 15 percent of everything Jesus said related to money.
And I just think that money is just way more important to God than we think it is, but not for the reasons we value money.
Well, why do you think that is then? What is it about money that God was getting at? Because money is a reflection of who we are. It's always about more than money. Money is not just about money, which is funny to say.
But it's not because it's a reflection. What we do with our money is an indication of where our heart is. Jesus said, where your treasures are, there your heart will be also. And so we are every day making investments that pull our heart towards particular things. And if all of those things are fairly secular, belonging only to the realm of our personal lifestyle, and we separate that from our spiritual lives, that's where we get into real trouble.
Well, let's talk about that. Why is that distinction then of a separate spiritual life and financial life so dangerous? us?
Well, we tend to think of worship and prayer and theology, spiritual things, but budgets, careers, and purchases belong to kind of the real world. I mean, it's not real in quotes, but Scripture doesn't make that division. Our lives, we live one life before the Lord, and we're going to answer for it at the judgment seat of Christ. And that doesn't have to be a scary thing. He's going to reward us, but he's also going to hold us accountable.
And God cares not just about where our money goes, but where our hearts are going. And money has the power to open doors to very positive things, not just to negative things, not just to materialism and abuse of money, but to worship and generosity and compassion and faith. It can be a great tool. As you said, it can be a terrible master, but a wonderful servant. Yeah, that's exactly right.
And let's not forget that the author of money, the creator and owner of everything is also the author of delight and joy and wonder. And so it goes without saying, as long as money doesn't become an idol, it should be a good gift used for good and productive and life-giving purposes. The problem is we get that out of order. We take God off the throne of our lives. We put money there and it is a terrible master.
But when it's a tool to Randy Alcorn's point, a powerful force for good, we're going to talk about that when we come back. Randy Alcorn is here today. His 70th book will be a devotional for Faith 5. It'll be out later this year. We can't wait to put it in your hands.
More on this topic right around the corner. Stay with us. Managing money isn't just a financial decision. It's a discipleship journey. And the FaithFy app is the only app built to guide both your money and your heart.
With meaningful check-ins, automated budgeting, personalized insights, and biblical wisdom woven into every step, FaithFy helps you build habits that last Join more than 70 believers pursuing clarity and peace as faithful stewards Start your 30 free trial today at faithfi slash app Are you a financial professional looking to grow your practice while offering advice that aligns with your Christian values? By becoming a certified kingdom advisor, you'll gain the biblical wisdom and professional credibility to serve clients who are seeking faith-based financial guidance. Each year, more than 75,000 people search for a certified kingdom advisor. Join our community and share your expertise with clients looking for someone who shares their faith and values. Start your journey today by going to kingdomadvisors.com slash get certified.
God's wisdom about money is ultimately an invitation to freedom, to enjoy His provision, hold it with open hands, and find our greatest treasure in Him. We're talking about why God has so much to say about money. Our guest today is my friend Randy Alcorn. He is the founder and director of Eternal Perspective Ministries. He's a best-selling author, and his 70th book will actually be a devotional that we're going to produce later this year.
It's a devotional that I can't wait to get in your hands as you go on a journey to explore the freedom and joy that God intends for you to have with his good gift of money.
Now, Randy, we talked about how so much of Scripture deals with this topic, and we believe the reason is, in part, because it has so much to do with our hearts.
Now, Scripture's words about money in particular, and certainly other topics as well, can be challenging. But you point out that the goal isn't guilt. It's freedom from the promises money can never keep. How can that discomfort actually be a gift from God?
Well, it really is a gift. And if you ever had a friend confront you about something, maybe husband, wife, whoever it is, and you know that they love you, you know, faithful are the wounds of a friend, the proverb says. You know that correction is something that you need. It's not comfortable when it happens, but it makes us better people and it makes us happier people ultimately.
So sometimes we tend to want to soften scriptures, plain meaning.
Sometimes pastors will do this in a message where, well, you know, it really says, you know, take up your cross and follow Jesus. We don't want to make that sound like that's too big of a deal. It's a huge deal. And so let's not soften its plain meaning just because we want to avoid feeling guilty. But conviction itself, we should see as one of God's great mercies to us.
The Holy Spirit loves to expose our idols, and it's not to humiliate us. It's to liberate us from those idols. God's teaching on money is not ever meant to rob us of happiness, but to free us from the false promises of money, which becomes this false God.
So this is really, the message is really about freedom, not guilt. Wow, that's well said. Randy, you say that one of the great illusions of our age is that having more will bring us greater peace. Ron Blue talks about the paradox of prosperity. Why is that promise so persuasive?
And why does it ultimately leave us disappointed in the end? Yeah, I think we all, the longer we live, the wiser we should become. It's not always true. But the reason is because we've seen enough of life that we then realize how it works. And so some of our high expectations of how wonderful we're going to feel when we get that new car, that new house, when we get that salary increase, when we go on that wonderful luxury vacation or whatever it might be.
And then so often there is disappointment. And the disappointment is just a reflection. It doesn't mean that those things were bad. It just means that they were never meant to satisfy our hearts, our longings. That's where giving is so wonderful, because Jesus said it's more happy-making to give than to receive in Acts 20, 35.
And we end up with these temporary things. Yes, they can be enjoyed as gifts from God, but they just can't provide ultimate meaning or fulfillment to our lives.
So what's happening is we're trusting in the wrong things. We should be trusting in God and his promises. And that requires living by faith, not by sight. But our tendency is to live by sight. Just realizing God made us for something far greater than living from purchase to purchase.
It's really a lot more than that. Yeah, I think that's right.
So then, if possessions can never truly satisfy us, and as we get older, we become more and more acquainted with that understanding, how then, Randy, do we keep from them taking too central a place in our lives?
Well, we have to make sure our lives are anchored in the character of God. And I know as a young Christian, I read A.W. Tozer's The Knowledge of the Holy. J.I. Packer came out at that time when I was a young believer with his book, Knowing God.
And then my wife, Nancy, in her final days as she was dying before the Lord took her home, she reread those books and Desiring God by John Piper and Trusting God by Jerry Bridges. We just have to anchor ourselves in who God is. Scripture itself, of course, is what those books are about and brings to the fore.
So when we focus on God's goodness and generosity, our grip on temporary things just loosens. We become more open-hearted and therefore more open-handed. We're made for an eternal kingdom, an eternal king, eternal joy. And the greatest treasure isn what God gives us but God himself The God is the gospel He gives himself to us and that the center of everything Wow We know of course there a connection between our hearts and money Jesus said where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. You point out that our hearts tend to follow where we place our treasure.
Talk about the importance of that understanding. Yeah, sometimes we think in terms of our treasure following where our heart is, because, well, if we really have a heart for something, then probably we will give to that thing.
Well, that's true to a certain extent, but it works the other way. And the actual words of Jesus should make that hit home with us. Where your treasure is there, your heart will be also.
So that means our hearts follow our treasure.
So if I want more of a heart for God's kingdom, I need to give more to God's kingdom. Put more of my treasure there. It's like if you invest in some company, Apple or IBM or whatever, that means you develop vested interest in it.
Now you're interested in reading an article on big changes at Apple or big changes at IBM or whatever it is you're investing in. And that's exactly what's true in the spiritual realm. The more you give to evangelism in different parts of the world, famine relief, to causes like getting clean water to villages to save the children from all these diseases. And when you do that, your heart follows where you put your treasure. And if you're investing in translating the scriptures in a language that has never had it before, and you take, whether it's a few hundred dollars, a few thousand dollars, or whether you sponsor an entire translation for a language group that might be a couple hundred thousand dollars, whatever it is, your heart is going to be with that.
And forever, I mean, in the world to come, we'll sit down at banquet tables and we'll have people sitting on the left and the right, and God will be in charge of the seating arrangements. And we'll be sitting next to people who will look at us and say, thank you. You gave so that we could have the scripture in our own heart language. And it made all the difference. Wow.
What a great place for us to finish today. This has been such an encouraging conversation and a great reminder, Randy, that our money is not just about money. It reveals what we treasure, whom we trust, and where our hearts are anchored.
So thankful for you, my friend. Yeah, it's great to be with you and great to be together in God's kingdom. It sure is. That's teacher and bestselling author Randy Alcorn. If you'd like to receive his new devotional from FaithFi, become a partner at faithfi.com slash give.
We'll be back with your questions after this break.
So call right now, 800-525-7000. Or if you'd prefer to email your questions, send it to us at askrob at faithfi.com. I was in ministry full time and I was always looking for a way to integrate my faith with this new industry around money and finances. This is Mark. He is a certified kingdom advisor.
As a CKA, one of the best things I offer my clients is trust in knowing that they're working with a professional that understands their values. And I think in all of the different challenges that clients go through, if we can go back to trusting in God, then he'll make the path straight. You can find an advisor like Mark at findacka.com. Faith in Finance is grateful for support from Eventide Investments, a faith-based asset manager pursuing investing that makes the world rejoice. Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance.
We've got a few lines open. You can call right now with your financial questions, 800-525-7000. Let's begin. We're going to start in Louisiana today. Kyle, go ahead.
I just wanted to ask a question. Me and my wife are in our mid-20s, and she just went out on maternity leave because we just had a baby. And so she's, right now we're just getting by with my income, and we're doing all right. But I just wanted to ask you how would be the best way to pay off the debt that we have with like, because that's our goal is to be within like 10 or 20 years, be completely debt free so that we can start to book others.
Well, I love that, Kyle, that you and your wife are thinking that way, both strengthening your financial foundation, but with a goal in mind, not just so you can have more lifestyle spending, but so that you can give. And that's amazing. I think that's really aligning your priorities with the heart of God that we certainly see in Scripture. I think this idea that you would aggressively pay down debt is great. I think first, though, if you haven't already, we really need to stabilize cash flow.
So my priority order, again, some of this may have already been addressed, but let's just talk through it. I would say, you know, let's really base spending on your income alone until she returns to work and then prioritize, of course, housing, utilities, groceries, transportation, insurance, child care, the essentials.
Now, you can ask the hospitals for itemized bills. You can ask them for interest-free payment plans. Medical bills can often be negotiated.
So I would say, you know, don't consider putting, and I'm not hearing this from you, but just want to make sure I say this, don't think about putting anything on a credit card. You're going to want to prioritize the high interest debt So we make minimum payments on all the debts but then directly apply any extra money toward that high interest or those high interest balances again especially credit cards and then prepare for child care costs. You know, before she returns to work, you're really going to need to think through how much additional income you'll actually bring home after child care and transportation and other work-related expenses. And then we also want to make sure that you've got a fully funded emergency fund. If not, let's work toward getting those three to six months of essential expenses in emergency savings and then review your insurance as well.
We want to make sure the baby has health coverage and then think about now an affordable term life policy for both of you. in the event, you know, the Lord were to call one of you home, obviously there are expenses that would be borne as a result of that income going away. And that's where I think an affordable term life insurance policy to get you, you know, enough coverage, plenty of coverage to offset that income so it could be invested and generate the income that would be lost is obviously critical. But let me stop there and just get your thoughts on all that. Yeah, I was actually fortunate enough to marry a wife that actually made me better with money than worse with money and so i'm actually you know before that i was actually wasting a lot of money on uh just a lot of dumb stuff that single men do sometimes and sure but you know we're actually doing pretty good and she you know you know she knows more about her parents taught her more about money than i did and everything so i was blessed with that and um but we do have life insurance we have um health insurance for it's only me me and our son are on my uh health insurance for my job and then she is going she's going to go back to work um in the next couple months and so she'll just get health insurance on that from there and um but yeah i mean i think i just wanted to i guess to ask like what you know what we should focus on i know the quick easy answer is the highest interest uh focus on paying that all first but you know yeah totally anything i was missing no i think you're right on track there and I appreciate that extra context because you know you've got the life insurance and the health insurance covered uh what about emergency savings do you guys have a a nice cushion equal to as much as six months of expenses yeah we actually have um I think we have about 10,000 in savings right now and uh which which would cover I think our our house note for about for about, I think, four or five months.
Maybe even six, I think.
Something like that. Yeah, ideally what you would do is you, and I suspect you all have a budget, or at least you have one that perhaps works now. We need to think about what does that budget look like where she's gone back to work, which means income goes up, but also expenses go up too as you now have child care, unless there's a family member or friend that's stepping in there. But let's get that budget dialed in for what life is going to look like to the best of your knowledge once she goes back to work. And then whatever that monthly spending is, that times three to six is really the goal there for the emergency savings.
So that if something unexpected happened, there was a loss of income or a major unexpected expense, you all would have the ability to cover that. But apart from that, let's talk about the debt. What specifically do you have? How much and what type of debt? uh we owe on my truck we owe um because i have i have a truck and she has a car her car is paid off uh she she paid her car off before we got married but um i owe about or we we owe about 13 000 on my truck right now okay and then i think eight eight thousand is her student loans that we have left okay great and then do you have medical debt as well yeah our son was in the NICU for a few days after he was born, and I think that was about $80,000 after all that was finished.
Okay. In terms of the priority order, I think we need to wait for insurance to process those claims before really making any moves there or agreeing to any kind of payment plan, because we need to figure out ultimately what's your responsibility, if anything. I think in the meantime, let's, you know, focused on building that emergency savings to three to six months worth of total expenses. I would say the truck loan is probably the least of my concerns. It's a reasonable interest rate of 5.3.
The student loans, I know you didn't know the interest rate. They're probably around between 7% and 9%. That's probably your highest interest loan. I know it's only 8,000, so it'd be great to get that knocked out when you can.
So I think your priorities at this point are Let's wait for the medical bills to be processed. Let's build emergency savings. And if you're going to focus on anything, let's focus on knocking out the student loans. And then let's also make sure you're contributing to retirement accounts at least as much as what will give you any kind of match either you or she has available to you. But I would say overall, you're in really great shape, Kyle, and heading in the right direction.
well thank you I appreciate that and I'm sorry if I took up too much time no this was great this is what we do and it was a delight to talk to you today if I can help you at any point along the way don't hesitate to reach out hey stay on the line I'm going to send you a copy of Money and Marriage God's Way I think it will be a blessing just to build on what you guys have already done you've done a great job and I know you said her parents equipped her well to really handle money wisely, and that's been a great influence on you. But I think perhaps this could even take it to the next level, and I'd be happy to send it as our gift. Again, it's called Money and Marriage God's Way by Howard Dayton. We'll put it in the mail, and Kyle, call anytime. We're so thankful for our team here.
Devin, Sandy, and Jim couldn't do it without them. We'll see you tomorrow. Faith and Finance is provided by FaithFi and listeners like you. you
