The Good Investor with Robin John

This faith and finance podcast is underwritten in part by Eventide Investments. They believe that investing is more than just returns. It's an opportunity to partner with companies that align with your values and are making a positive difference in the world. Learn more at eventideinvestments.com. The truth of investments is achieve a high return. You're missing an important piece of the puzzle, the great power our money has for good.

I am Rob West. As investors, we're entrusted with resources to allocate and steward according to God's will and principles. It's easy to have a narrow and earthly view of investing, yet God calls us toward a much bigger plan. Join us today to talk about that plan and then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. This is faith and finance biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well, our guest Robin John is co-founder and CEO of Eventide Asset Management, a Boston-based investment advisor practicing investing that makes the world rejoice.

Eventide is an underwriter of this program as well. Robin is a good friend and it is a delight, Robin, to have you on the program today. Thank you, Rob.

It's great to be here. Robin, you founded Eventide back in 2008 in the midst of the housing crash and the bear market that ensued. And I know you did it with a vision along with a few others of creating an investment firm that would honor God and invest in companies that create value for the world. I love Eventide's tagline, investing that makes the world rejoice.

So let's start there, Robin. How can our investments bring rejoicing to the world? Yes, our tagline, investing that makes the world rejoice, is inspired by two verses in Proverbs. The first says that when the righteous prosper, the city rejoices and when the wicked prosper, the people groan. The second Proverb says when the righteous prosper, the city rejoices and when the wicked are defeated, there are shouts of joy. The righteous are people that prosper by looking out for the people in the city. The wicked often prosper through exploitation, especially exploiting the poor and the poor groan under that oppression. So our work, our businesses, our investments can bring about rejoicing in the world when we are serving the real needs of the world. So business could either serve the needs of the world through their products and their practices, or businesses could seek to exploit others through their products and practices. We seek to invest in companies with good products and good practices. Yeah, well, and I love the idea that the whole foundation to investing is really supplying capital to business that should be creating goods and services that are a blessing to their neighbors and stakeholders.

And I love that that's the type of company that you seek out. But Robin, what would you say to investors who are worried or concerned that they can't do both do good and invest with excellence? Yeah, I would tell them, first of all, not to worry. A lot of people do have the worry that pursuing integrity comes with the cost. But before I address that worry, let me make clear that I do believe that we should be willing to make sacrifices for the sake of honoring God and loving our neighbor. In Romans chapter 12, we see the Bible telling us not to conform to the patterns of the world, but to be transformed by the renewing of our minds so that we may test and approve the good, pleasing and perfect will of God.

It later says in the same chapter to hate what is evil and cling to what is good. Over short periods of time, I do believe that there will be periods of both underperformance and outperformance. However, there is a group called the Biblically Responsible Investing Institute, and they've assessed performance and the impact of screening. And so they created a benchmark against the S&P 500. And this benchmark that they created screened out things like abortion, pornography, tobacco and other problem areas.

And what they found is that over long periods of time, over that 19 year period, that the performance result was exactly the same. So we don't necessarily have to give up good performance to invest in line with our values. And at Eventide, we don't just avoid ill-gotten gain. We seek to embrace the companies whose products and practices are good for the world. There's a great book called The Ultimate Question that was written by a Bain consultant, Fred Reichheld, and he found that the most powerful indicator of a company's future success is the degree to which the company is serving its customers. The book explores similar research that shows that companies that create compelling value for employees can also outperform their peers over the long term. That's incredible. You would hope that would be the case.

And the research says it absolutely was. More with Rob and John on faith-based investing right around the corner. Stay with us. As a faithful listener of the faith and finance program, you know that there is life changing financial wisdom in God's word to meet all your needs. More than anything, Faithful is here to help you and millions of others see God as your ultimate treasure. There are partners that help expand our outreach every month with their generosity. Has God provided financial answers for you through this ministry?

Please consider becoming a monthly partner by visiting faithfind.com and clicking Give. We're grateful for support from Eventide Investments on the faith and finance program. Eventide's approach to values-based investing is grounded in the belief that humankind was created in the image of God with intrinsic dignity, value, and worth. Eventide calls this investing that makes the world rejoice. More information is available at eventideinvestments.com.

That's eventideinvestments.com. Great to have you with us today on faith and finance. We're talking about good investing, not just investing to achieve a high return, although there's nothing wrong with that, but also including the power of our investments to do good. I'm joined today by my friend Robin John.

He's co-founder and CEO of Eventide Asset Management and underwriter of this program. Before the break, Robin, I know you were talking about how we don't necessarily have to sacrifice return when we're investing in a way that aligns with our values. Being a good company is not necessarily a stumbling block to good performance, but it actually, based on the research, should be advantageous to us over time, which is just incredible. But what do you say to those who might say, well, Robin, it's better to invest, quote, like the world, so we have more money to give away to ministry?

What would you say to that? Yeah, the first thing I would say to that is that when we think about generosity, it should not just be about how much money we give away. A person who chooses to become a teacher, for example, instead of becoming an investment banker, in order to love the children in their community, is already making a generous decision even before giving away any money.

We have to live generously, holistically. It matters how we make our money, and that's why the old English preacher, Pastor John Wesley said, make all you can to give all you can, but make all you can without hurting yourself or your neighbor in body or in soul. Proverbs 1 talks about ill-gotten gain and how we are not to share a purse with people that pursue plunder.

So we have to think about both how we make our money and what we do when we make the money. So giving money away that was not earned in a way that was honoring to God is ultimately not what the Bible desires. If anybody wants to see more scripture regarding what the Bible says about ill-gotten gain, please feel free to reach out to me. The question asked also assumes that pursuing integrity and the love of neighbor should lead to a lower return. While this could be true at times, I think it's inaccurate to make this blanket statement, and I mentioned this earlier about the Biblically Responsible Investing Institute's research. Yes, you sure did, and you make a great point on that. Robin, I know your heart is that everyone would have access to this type of investing in a way that honors God and makes the world rejoice, and I'm so excited about your new book that's coming out in July.

I had a chance to preview it. It's called The Good Investor, and I'd love for you to draw from that for a moment and talk about how even beginning investors, really anyone who's in our listening audience today, can invest in a way that aligns with God's design. Yeah, my advice would be to connect with a financial advisor that could really help you. There's an entire industry of faith-based financial advisors, Kingdom Advisors, and you could find them by going to the Kingdom Advisors website. These advisors are well-equipped to apply biblical principles to the way that they invest and build their clients' portfolios. My book, The Good Investor, is available for pre-order online at most bookstores, and I believe that it's going to be a great tool for helping investors not just think about their investing, but also about their calling, their purpose, and their work. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

Let me just pile onto that. Folks, this is a must-read if you want to think about how your faith intersects with your investing as you hear Robin's story, but also his vision for this type of investing, and you can get it wherever you buy books or at least pre-order it. Robin, you'll also be encouraged to know that we at faithfi.com, folks can connect with a certified Kingdom Advisor, and they can indicate that they only want a CKA or a listing of CKAs that offer faith-based investing, and in just the six months that that's been available, now 40% of people that are searching are saying, show me only the list of CKAs that do faith-based investing. So clearly there is a lot of demand for this topic, but Robin, let's talk about The Good Investor for a moment. It'll be a great read for so many Christians.

Tell us why you wrote it. Yeah, I'm really excited about this book because I want to encourage every Christian to consider their calling. I was praying about my calling back in 2007 and 2008 before founding, co-founding Eventide. All of us have a great opportunity to work in alignment with God's heart in our everyday work. This is also true about how and where we invest our money. A lot of the faith and work books provide a rich theology, but I believe that this book does that, but it's also from the perspective of a practitioner who took that theology and put it into everyday practice. Yeah, no doubt about it. Talking about calling, Robin, you address what's called the sacred-secular disconnect in the church, that most Christians are longing for a calling without realizing that they're already pursuing their calling.

Talk about that for a moment. Yeah, I think a lot of Christians feel like they are second-class citizens in God's economy because what we often hear is that the pastor or the missionary are called, and we are longing for a calling. So I think most Christians are like me, longing for a calling, and we want to know that our work matters to God. And so what this book does is really tries to address that, and we try to challenge what I consider to be more of an impoverished way to live our lives, believing that we are just second-class citizens in God's kingdom. I explain in the book that God cares deeply about our everyday work, that we should reflect the goodness of God in our work. If God does work that he calls good, and he creates us in his image in Genesis 1.26, then we should do work that God could call good.

That's so good. So what would you say then to listeners, Robin, who want to live out their calling but don't know where to start? What did that look like for you? Yeah, pray, cry out, and ask God for wisdom. And I explain in this book the process I went through. I used to spend late nights in my parents' basement by the washing machine and dryer and just pray and ask God to show me his calling for me.

And I ultimately ended up praying and fasting with Finney at his house, and Finney became the co-founder along with me of Eventide. And one of the early passages that we would pray through together was Psalm 1. And it says that, Blessed is a man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, or stands in the way of sinners, or sits in the seat of scoffers, but his delight is on the law of the Lord, and on his law he meditates day and night. That person will be like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields his fruit in season, whose leaves do not wither, whatever he does prospers. So that was our prayer, is that God just show us what you want us to do.

I don't care whether I'm successful by worldly standards. I want to be successful in the eyes of God. And so I trusted that God would direct me and sustain me, and that I simply wanted to delight in God and meditate on his word. I also do want to encourage listeners, because I don't want everybody to think that you have to go and do something like start a new company in order to have a calling. I think the reality is that many Christians listening to us today are exactly where God needs them to be. What I don't want you to think is that you have to go and start something new or leave your job. I think many of us just need to be encouraged to continue to do the good work that we're already doing. Boy, that is so well said, and I know that really underscores the big takeaway from your book. Folks, go out and pre-order The Good Investor.

It's available right now for pre-order, and it will be released on July 22nd. Again, it's called The Good Investor. Robin, I'm so thankful for your leadership in this space and your friendship. I'm grateful for your time today. Thank you so much, Rob.

It's always so good to be with you. That's Robin John, co-founder and CEO of Eventide Asset Management. Your calls are next, 800-525-7000.

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Choose your own provider and select the program that fits your needs and budget. CHM is the original faith-based way of taking care of your medical bill costs. Learn more at chministries.org slash faithfi. Hey, great to have you with us today on faith and finance. The calls are filling up, but we've got room for you at the moment. 800-525-7000 with your financial questions. Let's go to Palm Beach, Florida, WRMB.

Rosa, how can I help? Hi, I've had a 401k for years from the school district and all since like 20 years from 20 years, but I haven't been working for the school district for probably the last, I don't know, since COVID. I guess it's been five years, but so nothing is going into it because I haven't been there. But even so, there's been like only 8,000 in there in this 401k this whole time. So I'm trying to start another investment through my current position, my current company. And I've tried to roll over that, like it's not an 8,000, it's like 7,000 something. And I'm not sure I'm looking at my proposal. And first of all, is it wise to roll that over into my current company?

Because, and what should I do? Like, should it be IRA? Should it be, you know, because I'm 55, so I haven't been in 20 years, not even 20 years, 15 years before I came here.

Yeah, very good. And you know, a lot of people are in your same boat here, Rosa, where they've got a previous employer with a 401k sitting there with, you know, everything from several thousand to, you know, quite a bit of money. Do you have a 401k available at your new job? Well, I'm trying to, they call it something else. They call it 401, 403b.

Yeah, 403b. They should, yeah, it's basically the same thing. One's for a not for profit and one's for a for profit.

But they act exactly the same. I would like that idea, given that it's about 7,000. It keeps it very simple. And if you can have everything in one place, I think, you know, you would really like that. Because now you're getting one statement, you only have to pick the investments one time. So contact your HR department and see if they'll let you roll that old 401k in. If they will, that's the direction I would go. Arkansas is where we're going next.

Ty Eddy, go ahead. Hey, I've got my wife and I was married for 40 years. And I lost her about three years ago. And while within our marriage, he had two kids before we married that we had one together. And then we had to our house burnt. And then we had to buy another house and some land. Now, since he has passed away, I remarried a few months ago. And I was wondering if I pass away, will and then the house and land is still on the loan.

And it's in our name, mine and my late wife's name. Well, if I pass away, is there any way her two kids, her two previous kids or our kids together and boot my wife out now, in the house with me now married to now? Or is that what I need to do to get where they can't get her out?

Yeah. What would be your ultimate objective there? What is it that you and your your current wife want to have happen when you pass away if you were to pre-decease her? Well, it would go to her. It would just stay with her until something happens to her. You know, I don't want to kick her out. No, exactly right.

Yeah. So basically, I would check with an estate attorney. There's a couple of options here, where you could do what's called a life estate with remainder to children, or a traditional life estate deed. And that would give your wife a lifetime right to live in the property, and the heirs couldn't force a sale. And then when she passes, the heirs would then, you know, take full ownership and control of the property. You know, the other option is you could, you know, just go ahead and put her name on it. And, you know, you all could own it together, and then it would be left to your full estate and pass according to your and your wife's wishes at that point. But if you're wanting this particular asset, because of your prior marriage to go to your kids from your previous wife who passed, then that's where that life estate could be a great option to give your your current wife the ability to live in it for the remainder of her life, and then allow your heirs to take ownership and control the property at her passing. Okay, now she has three kids on a previous marriage also.

So let's just say if I pass, she passed, it would go to her kids and my one kid, her previous, my late wife's previous kids wouldn't have any grounds for it, would they? Well, it's totally up to what you all want. So I think that it needs to start with you all having a conversation.

And you know, there's a couple of approaches here. One approach is to say, listen, you know, to become one flesh in marriage. And so we're going to treat everything regardless of when we, you know, when the Lord gave it to us, we're going to treat everything as marital property. And so we're going to co-own everything. And that means you and or she will get to enjoy it during your lives, regardless of who the Lord takes home first. And then you decide as a couple, how you want that distributed once you both pass away, how much to heirs, and maybe it gets split evenly, maybe it doesn't, and how much to ministry.

I mean, those are really the two only two places you can go. Sometimes when it's a second marriage, you know, we will come into this conversation and say, hey, there are certain assets that were accumulated prior to the second marriage. And because we have kids from a previous marriage, we want to take some of those assets that were accumulated before the new marriage, and make sure they go directly to, you know, my kids or her kids. And that can be done as well. You all just need to talk through that with grace and trust and openness.

Decide what you want to do. And then in the state attorney can draft the documents to make any of that happen. You know, based on the conversation you have. Does that make sense? Yes.

Yeah, yeah, it does. It meant more planning than what it was before and everything. So, but me and her plan was to participate so we weren't worried about it. Okay, very good. Yeah, so I think the next step is to visit with a godly estate attorney, talk through your wishes, make sure you guys are clear and on the same page before you get there. But as long as you are, share your wishes.

And then that attorney can, you know, draft the legal documents to make all of that operational so that you've got all the plans in place and there's no more guessing involved. Hey, thanks for your call today, Eddie. Well, that's going to do it for us today. I'm so thankful for your calls. What a privilege it is that you invite us into your stories each day as we guide you back to God's Word and encourage you to apply the wisdom we find in Scripture to your financial decisions and choices. Hey, let me invite you to become a FaithFi partner.

These are men and women who help us reach more people with this life changing message of God's wisdom related to stewardship. FaithFi partners support us monthly at $35 a month or more or $400 a year. And we have the opportunity to make available some great FaithFi partner benefits, including exclusive quarterly ministry updates and early release copies of each of our FaithFi studies and devotionals mailed right to your door. If you'd like to become a FaithFi partner or give a gift of any amount, just head to our website faithfi.com and click Give. That's faithfi.com and click Give. Well, folks, we hope you come back and join us next time. On behalf of my entire team here at FaithFi, including today's broadcast team, Taylor Stanrich, Amy Rios and Chad Clark, I'm Rob West. Looking forward to having you back here next time as we apply God's wisdom to your financial decisions and choices here on Faith and Finance. Until then, may God bless you. Bye bye. Faith and Finance is provided by FaithFi and listeners like you.