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Not only are you saving money, but you're supporting our show as well. So thank you. Today's secret word is voracious. And today's secret word contestant is Ryan Hill. You're listening to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. You can find us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com. If you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-58-25028 or you can email us at contact at ClearViewTodayShow.com.
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Leave us a good five star review on iTunes or Spotify. Anywhere you get your Christian podcasting content from, we're going to leave a link in the description so you can do just that. You know, I say Christian content podcasting because there's a community that I'm a part of on Facebook. That is really, really, really helpful. And I've been posting our episodes there. Really? Nice. Yeah. We've been getting a lot of comments.
A lot of people are really loving the show, Dr. Shah. Love it. Yeah. Yes. Oh, by the way, I should say welcome to the show, Dr. Abbadon Shah.
Welcome. Who is a piece? I thought you forgot me.
I would never. Who is a piece? He's a PhD in New Testament, textual criticism professor at Carolina University, author, full time pastor and the host of today's show. Hold on a second. Did he just walk through the shot right in the middle of the shot through the shot? Yes. Yes.
Why would you do that way? Well, I thought Nicholas was on these guys. I was trying to help Dr. Shah with the camera. Yeah.
You just walked on camera. Yeah. He doesn't want to stroll in.
Sometimes Godzilla just rips the roof off the church. You never know. It is what it is.
You never know. He's fired. But anyway.
That's the word you never want to hear. We'll talk later. Anyway, here's God's word. The verse of the day today is coming to us from Mark chapter 12, verse 17. And Jesus answered and said to them, render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's. And they marveled at him. So like you would say like render to David what is David's.
The unemployment papers or maybe the termination notice. You would render that unto David. Did you overhear them talking? What is the deal with these two today? There's a lot going on in the studio. We're going to have an episode on professionalism. Dot's going to knock on the door in a minute. Do y'all need anything? Get out of here, Katie.
Crazy sister Dot. I think that is a good thing that Jesus said, because it does imply that there are things in the secular world that it's not necessarily that they're of value, but at the same time, it's like you live in a real world. You know what I mean? And I think with us here at Clearview, our cultural mandate that we have also kind of exemplifies that. We're acknowledging that we're not living in a bubble. We're living in a lost and fallen world.
Absolutely. And we have to be active in both the worlds. Of course, we live among believers and we encourage one another. We know that we are part of a heavenly family. But at the same time, we're living in a community.
We're living in the world around us and we are to be the salt in the light. As you guys know, I'm very involved in our community. Some days I'm going from one meeting to another one board meeting after another. So I'm at the Y board meeting with YMCA.
Or then I am at the Crime Stoppers board meeting. And then after that, there will be the Chamber board meeting and then something else, Axe board meeting, which is our community, our area Christians Together in Service. But all of this is done not just to be popular or to be well known. It is done so that we can be active for God in the world.
Very true. Abraham Kuyper, who was a famous theologian, one of my favorites. I don't agree with him on everything with regards to Dutch Reformed theology, but there are some things that he believed about impacting the culture that have really affected my understanding of ministry. And he would often say it. He would say it this way, and I'm paraphrasing. He said there's not an inch of ground on the earth where Jesus does not say it's mine.
Of course, he says it a little bit classier than I said. But what he's saying is there's not any place which Jesus doesn't own. And so render to Caesar what is Caesar.
I take it a little bit differently there. What I'm saying is that we are to be, you know, in the Christian realm and the secular realm, we are to let God shine. Right. And yeah, we have to work.
We have to live in this world where we don't forget God is ultimately our Caesar. That's right. That's a great point.
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That's right. We appreciate every single one of you. Now let's get back to the show. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at clearviewtodayshow.com or if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028.
Dr. Shah, I really wanted to play the Mail Time song on this one, but this is not this is not something that someone wrote into the show. So I mentioned up at the top of the top of the show, I'm part of a Christian podcast community on Facebook. That's a lot. It's got like it's got like three or four thousand members. And of course, everyone's posting their own podcast.
But a lot of them will also put like I'm in search of this episode. I'm in search of someone talking about this. And so this woman, Kara S. from Maryland. What do you think the S stands for, by the way? I mean, spaghetti. It's right there.
Kara Spaghetti from Maryland wanted to know. She said, this is Carolyn from Maryland, I should say, looking for episodes about navigating seasons where God calls you to close or shut down a business or ministry and how to navigate that. And so she kind of posted if anyone has any. Nobody responded to her for like seven hours. Well, so I I messaged her on Facebook. I said, hey, look, you know, we have a daily show over here at the Cleveland Today show. That's a topic we haven't actually ever covered on the show. How would you feel about us answering your questions? She said, yep, that's great.
So Carolyn from Maryland. This one's this one's for you, Dr. Shy. How do you go about those times where you is as our friend Chris Martin would say, you try your best, but you don't succeed when you get what you want.
But not what you need when you feel so tired that you can't sleep. Stuck in who? Reverse. Just worry about the first two lines of that, though. How would you have to?
What is this? It's cold. Oh, OK. OK. Anyway, anyway, that was just being silly when to I guess maybe just the first part of that. Does God is God the one that calls you to shut down ministries?
You know what I mean? Yeah. There are times that God will shut a door.
OK. Yeah. You find that in the book of Acts when and again, I don't know if this person is in a Christian part broadcasting circles or not. So but I'm going to approach from that angle, but hopefully also address people who may not have the same faith values that we do.
But let's let's address it from a Christian angle, biblical angle first. Paul, as he is making his, I believe, the second missionary journey. And he is going through Turkey or Asia Minor Turkey modern day. And he is going, you know, he's to the north is the region of Galatia. OK. To the south, there is the southern part of Asia Minor. And then west way out there is Greece. East, of course, is Syria. To the south is Israel.
And he's sort of confused at this point, which way does God want me to go? And it says in the scriptures, in the book of Acts, that God, in a sense, closed the doors to Asia. I mean, to the north. OK. And so doors were being closed on him so that he would press towards the west. And he has this vision.
Once he comes to Troas, he has the vision. We call that the Macedonian call. And he sees a person dressed in a Macedonian attire calling him to come over here and help us. So God closing the door to the north of Turkey. God closing the door, in a sense, in a sense, closing the door to the south. East has already been saturated with the gospel. Right.
West is the way to go. So in that sense, I would say, yes, there are times God will close, but it's so something bigger and better will follow. Good point.
Good point. I think a lot of times we and maybe Kara S. and other Christians who start these projects, whether they're creative projects or businesses or maybe even ministries in the church, you feel like that we hang all our hopes on this idea, because if I had the idea and I'm a Christian, then God must have given it to me because it's a good idea. And so if God gave it to me and it doesn't pan out, either I misread this or God called it to be closed down, but I can't think of why. Yeah, I think there's a difference in I started this ministry maybe impulsively or on my own desires. And I interpreted them as God calling me to start this. And then through time, God is actually shutting that door versus God called me to do this and it's difficult.
So I'm I'm thinking that because it's difficult, God is desiring a lot of nuances in this question. Right. And this is and there's not a lot of detail or information that, you know, that we have other than the fact that you're navigating a series a series of events that led up to a ministry or business closing down. Right.
I guess my and this this I want to preface it right now is going to sound just based on I don't mean to interrupt you, but just based on your brief interaction with this person. Yeah. Are they coming from a Christian angle or are they coming from a secular angle? Well, so they're talking about a ministry and they posted in the Christian podcasting group. So it is a Christian.
I would assume Christian angle. Yes. And this is a question that I wanted to ask you, because I think it is relevant, although it can be misinterpreted as boasting or bragging or rubbing in your face. So I don't mean it that way.
But I've been here about, geez, 12, 13 years now. And I haven't seen very many ministries or projects that we've started come to a halt. Right. I can't think of many because we build ministries and projects on our core values. We don't just build them on.
That will be a really cool thing to do. A lot of times projects are initiated because it seems like, oh, get rich quick. Oh, quick success.
Oh, here's a shortcut that's going to take us from here to big, big, big time. And so a lot of times those things are done in the moment you feel right, in the moment you feel like, man, yes, this is what I've been waiting for. But zero consideration is being given to what are the core values that God has shown you to be the guiding rail of your life. Think about your life as a train. What are those core values that you're moving along?
And one reason why these kind of projects fall apart or you feel like, man, I was so sure about this, but now I don't know, is because you didn't consider core values. You just thought in the moment, this will take me from here to the big time. So you're just riding on a train of like motivation and inspiration.
And when that wears out. Or some self gratification, some money in the pocket, something like that, that's giving you satisfaction or promising you a satisfaction. And then when the satisfaction doesn't come, then you go, maybe God is... We don't often say God is not into this, but we often say is maybe God is closing this now.
Right. What are some ways, I think practically in the moment, what are some ways that people can sort of gauge what is motivating me to start this ministry? Is this truly God leading me, the Holy Spirit of God leading me to start this, or am I trying to start this because of my own desires or my own wants? Yeah, like how do you know it's from God?
In the moment, how do we differentiate? Your whole life should be motivated by your core values. Core values are not something you invoke in the moment.
This is how you should be living, breathing, moving. One of my core values or the core values of my life, I would say, is to number one, glorify Jesus Christ. You say, why don't you say God? Well, Christ is God. He is God, the Son, the second person or the Godhead.
But that's what the Father wants me to do. So when I please the Son, when I glorify the Son, I am glorifying the Father. When I'm glorifying the Son, I am giving the Holy Spirit, God the Spirit, the opportunity to use me. So that's why I focus on the Son, because that's what I'm supposed to do. And all three persons of the Godhead are glorified. I just want to make that clear. So it's not like I'm in that core value when I say God the Son, that I have some hidden agenda.
No, it's just how we're supposed to be. That's right. So my core value, biggest one, is to glorify my Savior and King, Jesus.
How do I do that? I do that and I used to use the word capture the culture. And I don't like that term because capture almost seems evil.
It almost seems like conquest, conquest or violent or something like that. And that's not what I want to communicate. What I'm trying to say is I capture the culture in the sense of making a difference, impacting the culture for Jesus Christ. That's a very important core value for me. So every day I ask myself, how am I glorifying the Lord Jesus Christ and how am I impacting the culture, my community, my church family, my family for Him?
That's such a good metric. I mean, if you strike forward in that mindset, like I want to do this to glorify Jesus. I want to do this to bring glory to Him. I doubt you're going to land in the wrong place.
Right, right. And I think people don't really like when you want to start a ministry, I know I'm this way, I fall into this trap. I want to do something. You know, I mean, I want to make that impact. I want to jump to the impact without asking myself, why do I want to do it? What do I truly value? You know what I mean? Am I looking for something to do? Am I looking to gain something out of this or am I looking just to enjoy myself, have fun?
Hopefully people like it as well. And I think a lot of times, and maybe Dr. Shaw, you can kind of weigh in on that because I know people have brought ministries to you and you have to kind of weigh internally. Does this because now we're looking at the core value of the church, the four core values of our church.
You know, does this ministry fit into one or multiple of those core values? Or is it just something that's like, I just think this is a great idea for some reason? Maybe I saw it somewhere. Maybe it looks cool. I'll give you an example. Great point. People will come to me with a fundraiser idea. What if we build this and this and this or cook this and this and this and we can raise up this money and so we can help this and this and this?
Great idea. It even sounds very much like what that it will be that fourth core value of our church, which is we want to be an evangelistic church. We want to win people with the gospel. But then I have to go back and look at all the core values.
If I am going to go to my neighbors, to my friends, to people that I come in contact with and say, here's some tickets, can you buy these tickets so that we can have the money to go do this and this and this? I just feel like that those core values are colliding. Yeah, they're coming into conflict. They're coming.
So how does that how does that happen? Well, because I feel like I should love my community enough to give them things rather than take from them. Right.
I agree. Now, we will have events where we will charge admission and things like that, but we are providing a service to them, not just like you help me. Right. And I'm going to give you a little plate of spaghetti that hardly cost anything.
Yeah. But I'm going to charge you 15 bucks. Again, please don't misunderstand. If you're raising funds for your school, for your children, for for some project in the community, for each I'm not here to criticize you. All I'm saying is I find that antithetical to my core value of loving my community. Right. It does not it does not it's not that it's a moral evil. It doesn't fit with our core values for what we want to do.
Because I'm expecting you to give me more money for less of a valued item. Right. Yeah. Right.
Spaghetti would probably cost me two bucks, but I'm going to charge you 12. Right. And I'm going to take that eight or 10 bucks and use it for this and then, you know, use that money to build something. Right. Right. It's and you can you can always do those mental gymnastics where it's like, well, we're going to build something that will impact the community 20, 30, 40 years from now when I'm dead. But I think I think at the end of the day, you're right. We are at the place and God has blessed us to be at the place where we are. We are the providers of our community, you know, and I think that's a that's a good thing.
And I think that's one of the ways that I think that vision that you had of being that provider for the community influenced the writing of those core values. So now another person is wondering how I'm asking you a question. And the question is, when a ministry closes down, how do you know, you know, if God is right, how do you navigate that?
How do you navigate? I think I think what she's saying is I really didn't want this to close. I didn't want this to fail.
Right. It wasn't that it was like, OK, the time is over. I think from the context, this is this failed and I'm really upset about it.
How do I get some closure? Notes of like, I'm dealing with this, struggling with this emotionally. What I'm first and foremost trying to tell, not just this person, but all of us, including myself, is don't embark on on ministries or projects where your core values are not as clear or not clearly aligned. Right. Be careful about that, because I don't embark on projects anymore where my core values will collide. So guess what?
I cannot think of a single project that we have shut down because it's like, well, you know, we just we did our best, guys. It doesn't happen. Right. I'm not saying it cannot happen. I'm not saying there may not be a time where this may happen, where we will be like, yeah, I really thought about it. I'm not saying that. All I'm saying is so far, so far, I'm not superior to you. I'm not being proud and arrogant. All I'm saying is we have been so intentional about making sure that our core values, our primary determinant, determinant of our ministries, our projects, that we stick with them.
I don't know that there's going to be, for Kara S, I don't know that there's going to be any magic bullet to make you feel better about it. You may just kind of, you may just kind of, I don't want to grieve it for a while, but I think this isn't the last thing that God will ever have you do. Well, I want to address that if you have a few moments to do that. So, OK, so this is a great way to say, hey, don't embark on projects like this and really do some soul searching.
Are you really, really sure that these things are aligned with God's call through your core values in your life? And maybe that's what I'm saying at first. But let's say, OK, you agree with that, it's like, OK, my core values didn't line up.
I'm not sure. Maybe one day I'll sit down and do a thorough evaluation of what happened, what went wrong there. For now, what do I do? I would say for now, you know, turn to Romans 8, 28, for we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose. So now turn to God and say, God, I don't know where I went wrong because I really thought it was your will, but apparently it wasn't.
Apparently you wanted this just for this brief season. OK. Or apparently somebody stepped in and really messed this up. But now help me to allow you and help you to work all things together for good. Maybe this shutting down is going to be an opportunity to birth something new and better.
What is that something new and better? What work do you need to do in my life to train me to think that way? Right. What work do you need to do in my life to help me help others who are in similar situations? So I hope you realize I'm not here to say, you messed up, you know, and you should have had your core values straight.
You did not listen to God like yourself. OK, all that is true. And I address that first, but I also want to make sure you understand we're not heartless. We understand things happen. Absolutely.
But if you let God use them, he will work something good even through this. Yes, he will. He will.
He always does. One of the things that really helps me is that one because I don't really have like super, super crazy ideas. But every now and then an idea will hit me that I'm so sure is like, this is the next thing.
You know what I mean? Like, this is it. This is the answer that God has been holding back on. And the very first thing I do, number one, is I run it by my pastor.
I run it by Dr. Sean. I say, what do you think? Get that initial reaction. If there's not a lot of reaction, that's a sign that maybe this doesn't line up with the core values. Maybe, maybe it's maybe it could be, hey, I'm really busy.
I can't think about it right now. But it also could be a sign that this is a really cool idea that can be implemented elsewhere, but it doesn't align with us. Also, we talk about as a team, you know, we come together and we run ideas by each other and say, hey, here's what I'm thinking. What do you guys think?
And hearing that consensus of I don't really understand, I don't get it, it can be deflating, but it can also be very revealing of where your mind, where your mind is. Well, it's also biblical. Yes. Biblical because Proverbs tells us that in the multitude of counselors, there is safety.
That's right. So how does that line up with your core values? I have mentors in my life. I have people that I look up to. So if there is going to be a significant project, then I will run it by some people, appropriate people, means I'm not going to ask those I turn to for academic advice to help me with ministry advice. And those who are in ministry, I'm not going to ask them some big scholarly academic question or whether or not to publish that article.
So it depends on who I'm talking to. But God has placed people in my life who are really good at what they do in their spheres, in their fields. And so I will check with them and see, you know, what is it that I should work on?
Where should I go next? What should, you know, happen? And then I will step into that issue.
Great point. Yeah, it's so helpful. Just like you said, John, sitting down and running it first by Dr. Shaw and then by the team. I mean, that truly is where the magic happens is in collaboration.
That's right. We're very blessed to be able to do that, very fortunate. So if you're not already doing that, I mean, I would tell you, hey, go sit with your pastor and run that idea by him. Get that on the table and get his thoughts.
And then if that checks boxes, then bring it to your team. You know, maybe you sit down to lunch and have that conversation. Don't let yourself be run off by your voracious appetite. Just sit down and talk through those different things.
And there's wisdom in the multitude of counselors. And if you're if you're anything like me at all, like if you're like a creative, spontaneous ideas person, that's going to sound like the very last thing that you want to do. Introducing all this formality. It's going to sound like you're hitting the brakes.
Seriously, it'll sound like you're running it by committee and you're getting approval and you're getting green lights and you're talking about funding and then it's bringing the energy and the mood down. But that's the stuff that lasts. You know what I mean? All the things that we've done at Clearview that have truly lasted decades at this point have gone through that. And I know we kind of make a I'm not going to say intentionality, but you know what I mean? It has gone through that process.
There's a process to starting ministries because it works, because it works. Yeah, that's a great, great point. Yeah.
So so I want to encourage this person. Caroline, Caroline, Kara, Kara, Kara, Kara. Spaghetti, I think is her name.
Kara. I hope you will learn from this experience and also make less mistakes. You say, well, what if it wasn't a mistake? What if God, OK, then now let's pray if you don't if you truly believe in your core that this is not a mistake, it wasn't a mistake. You truly heard from God. Then now the next question should be, God, what are you trying to do? That's right. What are you trying to teach me? Where does this go next? In light of Romans 8 28. That's right.
What needs to happen? That's right. Now, that's why I like you. Well, I love how you opened up with Paul having those doors closed on him. It wasn't that he made a mistake or did something wrong, but God was directing him.
That's a great, great point. So good. I'm going to give myself one of these right here. I was waiting for you to do it. What was the word? Voracious. When did you say Voracious? I said it twice. You gave him Voracious? I say that word all the time.
Voracious. I saw that when it was like a sigh of relief. I was like, OK, I can do that one. All right. In the episode.
In the episode. I have a voracious appetite right now to throw you out. David. Make sure you guys join us tomorrow.
Get squished, David. Same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Voracious Clear View Today Show.
Thanks again to Mighty Musket. I'm for sponsoring today's episode. And don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes. If you want to re-listen or share it with your friends and family, you can always support us by support us financially at ClearViewTodayShow.com. John, what are we ending with today?
Well, today's episode is brought to you by the word Voracious. But also, I did want to let you know we are going live on January 3rd. We're going to live on YouTube.
Facebook will probably be going live on our website. We're going live everywhere. We've got our 24-hour prayer vigil. We'll be live on the air from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m. You can call in, 252-582-5028. We will pray with you live on the air. I can't stop saying that we'll be live. I love going live. It's one of the best. It's one of the coolest things that we do. Also, make sure you check out Dr. Sean Nicole's book, 30 Days of Praying for America, Daily Devotions to Heal Our Nation, as well as our debut album, Heaven Here and Now, available on Amazon and Spotify, anywhere music is sold.
That's right. Make sure you guys join the conversation tomorrow. Lots of great stuff coming your way. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Today.
