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Dr. Shah’s Book Club: High Road Leadership

Clearview Today / Abidan Shah
The Truth Network Radio
June 20, 2024 6:00 am

Dr. Shah’s Book Club: High Road Leadership

Clearview Today / Abidan Shah

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June 20, 2024 6:00 am

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In this episode of Clearview Today, Dr. Shah talks about new book that has impacted him and the team at Clearview!

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Where's my Mountain Dew? You're listening to Clear View Today with Dr. Abaddon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. You can find us online at Or if you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028, or you can email us at contact at

That's right. We want you guys to help us keep the conversation moving forward. You can do that by supporting the show. You can share it online with your friends and family. Leave us a good five-star review on iTunes or Spotify, anywhere you get your podcasting content from.

We're going to leave a couple of links right there in the description, so you can do just that. The verse of the day today comes to you from Romans chapter 6, verse 13. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. When you get saved, there is a transformation that takes place within you.

I think we've talked about this before. It's not just that you're different. It's that you're brand new. You are a new creation. And so, a new creation, you are born again for a new purpose.

The old man is dead. And again, what does it say? You're born as instruments of righteousness. Think about that. You are instruments by which God brings about His righteousness unto the world. And a lot of times, we take our Christian lives as being this passive thing that I just get to enjoy.

Let me just lay low and enjoy the blessings of new life. No, now you're an instrument of God's righteousness. That is a huge responsibility and a huge privilege.

Yeah. God could accomplish infinitely more than we ever could hope to and infinitely better than we could ever dream of. However, He chooses to work through His people, and that is a beautiful and humbling reality that God chooses to use us, imperfect that we might be, chooses to use us as part of His plan, just like the verse says, as instruments of righteousness. So think about the things that you're doing, the choices that you're making.

Are you allowing your body to be an instrument of unrighteousness to sin or an instrument of righteousness to God? Because yesterday was Wednesday, we didn't get a chance to do our, did I do that? So, did I do that? I hate doing that alone. I feel like everybody's just kind of watching me do it. And it really, that kind of stinks for me. You always launch into it when I'm not ready. I don't, I don't, I can't, I'm trying to read when you're going into it.

Three, two, one. There we go. This is, I try to jump on board, but maybe we should just change the name. Urkel Mode.

Hashtag Urkel Mode. Okay, so this is the segment of our show where we talk about something embarrassing or cringe-worthy that has happened to us that we want to share with you. And this one didn't happen to me. It didn't happen to Ryan.

It didn't happen to Dr. Shaw. This one happened to our friend David, and I watched it happen. And I thought this was something that maybe you could kind of, kind of gab about. Because I'm not sure how you feel about it.

I think ultimately you feel good, but it was kind of messed up. Yeah. Well, I went to Wyoming. With us. Of course.

All together. I took myself a certain amount of spending money. Sure, sure. You know, trying to have a budget. That's great.

And that's on financial responsibility. Yeah, you got rent. I can get some, you know, get some cool things. And then also bring back something for my mom, my dad, and stuff like that.

Be a nice son, grandson. Things of that nature. Yeah. Well, on Monday we got there. Or we got there on Sunday night, but Monday was the full day in Wyoming.

Sure, yeah. By the end of Monday, I had no spending money. Your joke. Okay, I didn't know that. What are you talking about?

By the end of Monday? I had no budgeted spending money. I did not realize that.

I had extra, like, spending money in the bank, but I had not budgeted it. Right. So, basically, once we got into Cody, which is like the city we were staying at, we found all these stores and all these, like, really cool souvenir places. And as I'm shopping, I'm like, this is a cool place. It's like a little Western place.

Yeah. They have hats and boots and shirts, cowboy stuff. And I look up and I'm like, oh, I really like that hat up there. So, I'm going to ask him, I'm going to see how much it is. Well, I ask him, and I'm like, hey, sir, how much is that hat? And he has to go through all the trouble of putting up a ladder and doing all this stuff to get the actual hat.

Sure. Brings it down. He's like, here, let me go and price it. So, I keep looking around, and I'm thinking, okay, if it's between $70 and like $100, maybe $130, I'll buy it. He comes back and he's like, hey, the hat, it's a great hat, made in Texas, American made.

It is $216. Golly. So, why didn't you, and I know you bought the hat, but why didn't you just tell him, hey, go on and put it back?

Yeah, no thank you. I, at that point, got nervous. David. To ask him to put it back, because I was like, he did all this work, and he's a really nice guy. Yeah.

He was a very nice guy. This is not where it ends, though. So, I'm like, all right, just keep it, I might get it. Just keep it down, I might get it. Oh, goodness. So, I'm walking through the store, thinking to myself, am I going to get this hat?

What am I going to do? And as I'm thinking, I'm looking at other stuff just to make it look like I'm still perusing. Trying to fool him.

Yeah. So, like, I pick up a shirt and I'm like, oh, I really like this shirt. And I even go and I try it on. Well, I put it back, I go back to the counter, and I'm like, all right, man, I think I'm going to get the hat. He's like, what about that shirt? He's like, what about that shirt you were looking at? I was like, oh, no, man, if I'm getting the hat, I can't get the shirt, because of the price of the hat. He was like, oh, man, well, look, I'll give you 30% off. I was like, no, man, I can't get the shirt. He was like, well, how much do you want to pay?

I was like, I just want to pay for the hat. He was like, listen, man, if you get the shirt, I'll give you 35% off. This guy was a pro. He knew what he was doing.

He was good at his job. I was like, man, that's a good deal. But I don't know. He was like, well, look, do you know how much you want? Then what you got to do is you got to haggle with me.

Jeez. You got to come, we got to do a back and forth thing. He was really nice about it. You said this guy was a nice guy? It sounds like he's taking you for a ride.

No, he wasn't being rude. He was being like, hey, if you want a price, you got to haggle with me. You got to go back and forth. And I was like, ah, man, just do the 35%.

I'll get the hat and the shirt. And then I walked out about 200. How'd you feel in your gut? I felt like $230 were going. That's crazy. That's crazy. That is really crazy. That guy knew what he was doing, man.

He was good at his job. He got your money. Yeah, it was something. I'm kind of with you though. Like I hate haggling.

I absolutely cannot stand it. I'm like, just tell me the price. I won't initiate the haggling, but I don't mind doing it.

If you guys have ever been caught in that haggling game and you bought something out of gilt, write it down and let us know. It's 252-25258-25028. Or you can visit us online at Stay tuned.

We'll be back after this. Elizabeth, my darling bride, what would you say is the most beneficial thing you could do for yourself in the morning? Probably drink an entire pot of coffee when sitting.

I'd say that's a close second. No, the best thing you can do for yourself is to start every morning with a daily devotional. Only be one to talk about.

Well, as it turns out, we have two. Right now, you can unlock the power of daily inspiration, wisdom, and spiritual growth in our devotional series, 30 Days Through a Crisis and 30 Days to a New Beginning. Written by our pastor, Dr. Abaddon Shah, and his wife, Nicole, the 30 Days devotional series is designed to reveal new biblical truths every single day.

That's right. And every day is a new revelation to guide you on your Christian journey toward a more meaningful and purposeful life. You can pick up your copy today from our website. That's, where you can grab both books on Amazon, Apple Books, and Audible.

That's 30 Days Through a Crisis and 30 Days to a New Beginning by Abaddon and Nicole Shah. And don't forget, these are only the first two in an expanding devotional series, so keep your eyes peeled for future installments. Thanks for listening.

Now let's get back to the show. Welcome back to Clearview Today with Dr. Abaddon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at If you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028. That's right.

And we are here once again in the Clearview Today studio with Dr. Abaddon Shah, who is a Ph.D. in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah, have you ever been too nervous to return clothes once you get up to the counter, or return anything? Like you get up to the counter, you try to, you look at the price, you don't like it, and then you're like, ah, I'm too nervous to go take it back, so I'm just going to pay for it. Or do you just go and take it back?

Usually, I'm very particular about checking the price. So you don't even get up there. No, I don't even get up there without knowing for sure. You're surprised at the register. Yeah. What would your, if by some quirk of fate that happened, what would your anxiety level be like?

Oh, how did I not figure this out? Depends on how friendly I am now with that clerk, or with the salesperson, because that makes it awkward. It's like, oh. Then I try to make a hasty exit. Like, oh, wait, I got a phone call. Hang on one second, you leave the stuff on the counter.

It's like, let's go. You were with, correct me if I'm wrong, David, but you were with David when he, when we were in Wyoming. Yes. We went to the Western store? We went to the Western store.

And the shirt, well, I'm not even going to talk about the shirt, but it was the hat that surprised you, right? Or was that a different store? No, no, that was the store. Same store.

Yeah. I went in and I was looking for a hat because I wanted a hat. Because at every trip I've gotten some sort of hat or some sort of like cowboy clothing, because we're in the West. So I got up to the counter and I was like, hey, I want to know how much that hat is. And I pointed to one that was like up on the wall that he had to like reach and get like a ladder and stuff. He was like going through all the trouble and stuff.

Yeah, he was going through all the trouble to do it. And it's a straw hat. So I'm like, no, straw hat can't be more than maybe $70, $100.

Sure. That's still a lot for a straw hat, though, isn't it? Well, depending on where you get it from. That's a pretty good quality hat, though. So he brings it to the register and he's like, okay, yeah, this is a good one.

This is an American hat company. He's like, made in Texas. He was like, yeah. He's like, all right, boss, the price on this one's going to be 216 bucks. Right there, I would have been like, go on and put it back. Go on and put it back. I was like, well, let me think about it. And I walked around the store and I like mulled over and I looked, I looked at my bank account and I was like, I could probably do this.

I don't have to eat tonight. And then I think the funniest part of it is he looked at me and he was like, I was like, I just don't know if I can, if I can do all that. He was like, well, here's the thing.

Here's the thing about it. You want a certain price? You've got to haggle with me. He was like, haggle with me.

Tell me, tell me what you want. And I was like, Well, also our team was shopping in the store and he and I had a conversation. This man and I had a conversation about America, where we are today.

And I'm hoping, you know, that God's will will be done and we'll have a good, good turn for this coming election and everything will work out great. And so we were just kind of talking about values and things like that. So already it was a good connection. And then when he found out that we were a church staff when they retreat. So, I mean, he was already looking at us very favorably and then our people were buying things, several of our people bought things there, right? Your family did buy some small things.

And then of course, David. So by the time I got up there, I saw a couple of cowboy ties. Yeah. The ties.

Yeah. So I picked out like four of them and I brought them back to you guys and I said, which one looks best? Which one would be the more versatile that I can, you know, have it in my wardrobe? And that is my one cowboy tie.

And so y'all helped me. Which one did you end up getting by the way? Was it the red or the green one? It was the green. It was the green.

You got the green one? Yeah. I couldn't remember. I remember that one. Yeah. Yeah.

Cream with like light green kind of. That was the one we were back and forth on a lot. I remember. And I took it up to the front desk and the guy was like, okay, all right. And then he went and did something. He said, here's my gift to you. I was like, oh, you're giving me. He gave you the tie for nothing? Yeah.

It was $51. Wow. He's like my gift to you, man.

I'm so glad you came by the store and thank you for what you stand for. Wow. I didn't know that. So yeah, I mentioned, I was like, I got this free. I told you all that.

Wow. And I got this free. And so I was like, thank you so much. He said, no, you guys came in the store and, and, and spend money.

And then also for what you stand for, thank you. I said, okay. Yeah. Thank you.

He offered us a discount on what we bought too. Yeah. You know, we were talking to this guy and we were from different parts of the country from opposite, almost opposite ends of the country. But being able to build bridges like this, being able to build roads like this is what brings people together.

That's right. Different walks of life. And that's, that's really the mark of leadership. That's something that's lacking in our country. And I think that that takes us into what we're talking about today, which is Dr. Shah's book club. You guys have been asking for it. Here we go. There you go right there.

You guys have been asking. I don't know how to make sound effects for book, maybe like a little page. I wish we could get smells through the podcast. Like, you know, when you get like a new book smell. The first thing, so we're talking about this, but we got these books. The first thing what I did was I opened the book up and I smelled it.

Yeah. I saw that it was really, it wasn't like a subtle thing. You were just like, that was a loud off putting sniff. Like on the plane. I was like, Ryan, stop.

There's children crying. I didn't care. Dr. Shah, you want to take us through our book for the month? Yes. So I'm an avid listener to the John Maxwell podcast and many of you as well. And I've been following John Maxwell's work for, I would say almost 25 years. Wow.

Yeah. This is back in the mid to late nineties, late nineties really. When I came across John Maxwell through Nicole's dad and I had listened to some of his cassette tapes on leadership. This is when he had just left Skyline Wesleyan in San Diego and had moved to Atlanta, I believe to start his enjoy ministry or his, his leadership ministry. And so I began to follow him. I listened to his cassette tapes and then I began to read some of his books and I was greatly impacted. Now I've, I've read some other leadership books who at times even better than what he wrote, but always came back to John Maxwell because I felt like he was always just so balanced in his approach.

And so for our staff, we read a leadership book, something to do with ministry, something to do with personal development, something to do with the climate in which we're living, how we can reach people, how we can help people, those kinds of things. And so in a recent podcast, when I say recent, I would say in the past month and a half, I heard about a new book that had just come out by John Maxwell called High Road Leadership, bringing people together in a world that divides. This is like this year, right?

This is like May of 2024. Oh, last month. Yes.

Yeah. I mean, I, we placed the order for this book for our whole staff and their spouses while the book was just maybe a week or two weeks old. That may have, that may be the quickest a book has ever gone from release to on Dr. Shaw's book club. Oh yeah.

Or any book club for that matter. It says here, I'm looking at the Amazon listing, it has May 7th as the day that it was released and we ordered them on the 14th. May 7th? May 7th.

Wow. Only a week after release. That's what it says on Amazon.

That might be. No, that's correct because John Maxwell discussed this book on May the 1st, May the 8th, May the, yeah, May the 1st and May the, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. He discussed the book starting on April the 17th. But he was kind of like setting people up to hear about this new book coming out. And then he discussed it again on April 24th and May the 1st and May the 8th and probably they recorded them at the same time.

Just released it a week later. And I felt like this is the book our team needs to read and not just our team, but also our significant others. So your wives also got a copy of this book. And the way we did it in our staff retreat is each person led the discussion on a chapter that was assigned to them. Altogether, this book has, let me get it right, 12 chapters. And so each one of us, somehow it worked out that they got one chapter each. I liked it because for one, we're about to embark on a new phase in our church's life.

We're going into our new sanctuary, hopefully in a couple of months. And it's a different mindset because we are bigger than we've ever been. And also the higher we climb in this area of influence, we need to change the way we think.

People don't really think that comes along with build. They think that you just build a building and then move everybody over there, but everything stays the same. But it doesn't. The things that need to stay the same, the word of God doesn't change. Convictions don't change. Your core values do not change.

But then there are things you do change. Our core values are we're a Bible believing church. We're a church that values our time of praise and worship. We are a loving church where everybody's welcome and feels welcome. And then we are an evangelistic church, which means we will use every available Christ honoring means to reach the lost here and throughout the world. So those are our core values and they do not change. But then there are things that do change.

The way we reach people, the way we make them feel welcome in our church, the way we do announcements, the way we communicate, all these things are, they need to be adapted to the new phase. That's right. And this book helps. Oh, absolutely.

Everything's going to look different. And so the way that we organize ourselves, organize our teams and organize our workflows, all of that stuff feeds into how we present the gospel to people. And I think one of the things that, well, I mean, I guess I don't want to jump the gun. Do you guys want to explain what high road leadership is?

Yeah, of course. What does that mean? Well, the impetus behind this book, John Maxwell explains in the podcast, and of course he also explains in the opening of this book, is that in the past four years, and of course I'm referring to the pandemic years, there has been a lack of leadership. People in positions of leadership, instead of stepping up and leading people, they retreated and they communicated fear, and they communicated hopelessness. And so there is a crisis in leadership, not just in America and the world, but also in the church.

There's a crisis. There's a lack of leadership. Also, there is a spirit of division. And I believe there are sinister forces behind this who are trying to do everything they can to divide. They're dividing us as a people in this nation. They're dividing us in our churches. So we are fighting with one another when we should be coming together and working towards a common goal.

And so this book, in a sense, addresses both those issues. On one hand, telling leaders you have been given an awesome task, step to the plate. And then it's also saying, we are divided more and more each day. Come together. True leaders are those who bring people together for a common goal, for a common task.

Right. You know, one of the things that I got from this book was, and I think Ryan, this was your chapter that you covered, how there's high road leadership. It's literally what it says, it's leadership that takes the high road. You know, it's not leadership that focuses on how I can grow my organization or how I can grow myself or benefit from this, but it's leadership that cares. And that's really the distinction. Yeah, there's three different differentiations of different leadership styles in the book.

And John Maxwell lays that out in the opening chapter. He talks about low road leadership, which is the leadership that is very self focused, the one that kind of uses and abuses other people, very manipulative, and people are just pawns to reach an end goal. I have seen that more and more, not just in the past four years, but it's been coming for a long time where people are in positions by virtue of their time in an organization or by virtue of experience or even nepotism. They're just not leaders.

And it's sad to watch that. And the past four years, it became very evident that there were a lot of people sitting in positions where they were not really leading. Another thing that's important in this book, again, this is quickly became part of my book club, I guess I can say, is that it's not just about be courageous, push through, drag people behind you. Now, this is about valuing people, valuing what people value, right? Because that's one of the chapters here, value all people, express your belief in them, equip them, challenge them. All these things are part of high road leadership, right?

When you value. Oh, God, it's not just using people for your benefit, right? Or just forging a way forward and dragging people kicking and screaming. No, we actually care about individuals. And that sometimes is hard as leaders, especially when you're trying to be fearless and courageous and forward moving to stop and care about people.

Who has time for that? This is also the book that talks about what we talked about a few weeks ago about the eagle and the hippopotamus. This is where the concept comes from. And of course, as you know, the eagle moments where you're soaring and the hippopotamus moment where you're simply rolling in the mud. Yeah.

You know, those moments do happen. We're all flawed human beings, as he says it in one place. He said, we're all flawed human beings.

We're all one step from stupid. If I acknowledge the hippo in me, then whenever I see someone else in the mud, I am liable to think I can relate because I've been there. True. Very true.

Yeah. So it's a good reminder for us that this is not when you are, when you recognize that in yourself, like you are not always a low road leader. You're not always a middle road leader. You're not always a high road leader. That's reflective of different decisions that you make. And it's characteristic of you at a moment in time.

Yeah. It's not a thing like I get now I've worked hard, I've done, I've checked it off. Now I'm a high road leader and I'll be this for the rest of my life. But it's, it's more like every single day you choose to take the high road. You choose to be that leader. And it's a moment by moment thing as you're making decisions and as you're making judgment calls and as you're leading your people, think about each decision that you're making. Is this a high road leadership decision? And if you recognize in retrospect, that was really a low road leadership decision, then resolve the next one's going to be better. What chapters, cause I can keep talking about the different chapter.

I mean, these are gold right here. Things like do the right things for the right reason or give more than you can take and develop emotional capacity. Place people above your own agenda. Embrace authenticity. I mean, there's a few more chapters there, but what chapters stood out to you guys? I think for me, it was, it was really two.

One we, I mean, you just named both of them. One was place people above your own agenda and then the other was embrace authenticity because there are so many times that you can put on a face. There are so many times you can sort of mold yourself into a role, like pretend to be the leader. But people are going to spot a fake really quickly.

They're going to spot an inauthentic person. May I see, may I see the, because I remember there was one that really stood out to me. It was very convicting.

Thank you sir. It was, I believe it was, I believe it was place people above your own agenda. Yeah, that was a good one. I think that was the one it was.

Chapter seven. I'm very goal oriented. Yeah. I, I, and I don't know if it's a weakness or strength, a mixture of both, but I know for a fact that I'm way more interested and motivated by things more than people. And it's not to say I dislike people or I don't care about people, but when I have a goal in mind, I want to write this book, I want to produce this album, I want to make, get this radio show off the ground.

It's the only thing that exists. And if people are along to help me do it, that's great. And I'm going to, and I don't think, and, and seeing that, that chapter helped me a lot because it's not a malicious thing. It's just, I want to do something good, but valuing people for who they are rather than how they can help me achieve this goal. Again, it's not that, it's not that you're an uncaring, you're a malicious person, but it's not high road leadership. Right.

And it doesn't get those people to a place where it elevates them. Right. That, that I think was the most impactful for me because it's convicting.

I had to look at myself. Yeah. It's the more difficult option because like you said, there are those projects, there are those deadlines that we're focused on, but you know, if we elevate people, if we pour into them and invest in them and value them, then we're still going to get to those products and those things. It may take us a little bit longer and it may be a more indirect approach, but we're going to be better off in the long run. And so are the people that we're leading. I think we were talking about that last night, Dr. Shaw, some of the things that you see people who are either younger than you or your age and they're writing books and they're producing things and you're like, why is that not happening for me at this point in my life?

And maturity is coming to that place where you're like, am I okay if it takes me a few years longer? Because it's going to last. Right. Right. Right. And learning to be patient, learning to wait on God's timing and letting God work on you and to make you into the person who will be the leader, the higher leader. You have to wait on that.

It's a work in progress. True. I also like the last two. Nicole covered one of them and I covered the other one.

The last one, the second last one was don't keep score. Yeah, true. Yeah.

That's a good one. I mean, in this chapter, this is chapter 11. He talks about why you should never keep score. You see that a lot in organizations where everybody's like, okay, I see you and I didn't get this done, but I also did this, this, this and this. It's really important to us that people understand all the things that we do and have to acknowledge the things that we do. You're doing things for people so that you can then one day cash in on the favors you've done. And that's not always good. So this is not keeping score in the sense of you did something wrong, one day I'm going to get you for that.

It's about as a leader doing things so you can then cash in your chips. Right. Yeah, true. Yeah. I loved in that chapter, I talked about the difference in keeping track and keeping score. Yeah. It's not different things.

Yeah. You're not, you're, you're fostering debt rather than fostering loyalty. You know, you think you're fostering loyalty.

I'm going to do something good for you. So you would be loyal to me. It's like, no, that's, that's not loyalty. That's indebtedness.

You're just creating debt that I have to pay. And the last one also was very important, which is desire the best for others. True. Yeah, desire the best for others. That's right. And yeah, as a leader, if you don't want the best for your team, even sometimes they may not want the best for themselves, but you are to lead in a way that you're trying to bring out the best in them.

And that's the burden, I guess, of leadership is that you, you have to want the best for them even when they are either too immature or too, I guess, not maybe not immature, but they, but they, like you said, they don't know what the best is. Short sighted. Yeah, sure. Yeah. That's actually the perfect word.

Yeah. Short sighted. They just can't see what you can as a leader.

And that's your job as the leader is to see further than your people can. Man, a great resource for us. Can't recommend it highly enough. High Road Leadership by John Maxwell.

Brand new. Go pick it up. It's helpful for individuals. It's helpful in a team or an organization setting and it'll help you become a better leader today. Today was helpful for you. Write in and let us know.

252-582-5028. Or you can visit us online at Don't forget, you can partner with us financially on that same website. Scroll to the bottom, click that donate button and let us know it's coming from our Clearview Today show family. John, any encouragement you'll leave with our listeners as we wrap up today? We are going to be talking about Father's Day tomorrow. We're celebrating Father's Day this weekend, so make sure you join us tomorrow. If you haven't got your dad something, what are you doing?

What are you doing? Order it now. If you have him as on prime, you might still be okay, but you're pushing it. Even if you get him like a screwdriver said, he'll be happy with it. Just go on the lows and go do it.

Yeah. No ties. Don't get him a tie. Don't get him a tie. Make sure you guys tune in tomorrow. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clear View Today.
Whisper: medium.en / 2024-06-20 09:19:39 / 2024-06-20 09:34:16 / 15

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