Do not cite the deep magic to me, witch! I was there when it was written. Just imagine that as Liam Neeson. There you go. Unpacking one of the greatest pieces of Christian literature ever written and how it's still impacting us today.
Coming up today on the TV today show. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm Liam Neeson.
It would be no, I'm John Galantis. But if I wasn't, if I didn't have such a bad sinus thing going on right now, I think I could do an accurate Liam Neeson. You could, you could pull off a Liam Neeson.
So, welcome to the Clearview Today Show. We are so glad that you're here, joining us for another week of great, great content. You know, we've had a lot of great discussions. We've been talking a lot about the book of Job. We've been having a ton of people write in and telling us how much it's been impacting them.
So, thank you for writing in. You can always contact us at that number: 252-582-5028. But today, we are talking about something really, really special because we just wrapped production week on our play, our winter play. Ryan, you want to tell them a little bit about it? Yes, absolutely.
Oh, wait a minute. What am I doing? Yeah, I don't know. I haven't even introduced the host of the show, Dr. Abadan Shah.
Dr. Abadan Shah, for those of you guys listening for the very first time, Dr. Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah, such a long week, and I forgot my own head.
I know it's been a busy week because we had three productions of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis, the first in the Chronicles of Narnia series. Yes. And this is a very special play. I would say.
It is probably C.S. Lewis's number one. Oh, yeah. I would say so. Other than mere Christianity, like fictional, definitely.
Yes. I would say this is the one that everybody knows. This is the one that everybody has heard of. Yeah, even if you haven't ever heard of C.S. Lewis, you know, likely, you know the story of the Lion, the Wits and the Wardrobe, or you've even heard the term Narnia.
Yeah, yeah, you've seen the movie. It's in the Zeitgeist, and it's incredibly. Significant because it's Christian media. You know what I'm saying? And so, for Christian media to have that level of impact, and we've talked about this on the show, it really kind of stinks that we have to even say this, but it's just unfortunately true.
Typically, there is media. And then there's Christian meeting. You know what I'm saying? People usually will just. Say, okay, well, that was pretty good for a Christian movie.
But Narnia is not like that. Narnia is up there in the high fantasy genre. Yeah, it's the second in the series. Yes, yes, it is. It's Magician's Nephew, then Lion, the Witch in the Wardrobe, then Prince of New York.
Yeah, Series of Seven, Lion, the Witch in the Wardrobe, is the second book, but it was the first one published, and it's the one that's the most welcome. It's the one that's the first one that came out. Yeah, yeah. I actually made a mistake. We were talking about this at lunch.
I read The Magician's Nephew first. If you're familiar with Narnia, then you know exactly what I'm talking about. Magician's Nephew is nothing but 100% pure backstory. And so it's like supposed to be fun to read because you've already read The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. I did not do that.
So I just read The Magician's Nephew and I was like, what is this? What is that? What is happening? It is. If you're not familiar with the world, it is kind of an outlier.
Oh, yeah. But, but it's, it's, I think it was published last, right? It was like one of the last ones to be published. It's supposed to be like the prequel.
So you read the first one first. Yeah. But man, Dr. Shaw, C.S. Lewis, did you read C.S.
Lewis growing up? Yes, I did. In fact, back at home, This is when I was growing up in India. We had the Chronicles of Narnia collection in my dad's library. I wouldn't say that I read every single one in the Chronicles, but I did take down the Lion, the Wish, and the Wardrobe and went through it.
And at times it was hard to follow, like what is happening here. But since I was familiar with British literature, I grew up on British literature. It's something about, if you want to know what is the greatest gift that British-speaking people have given. to or English people have given to the The s the s the the world I would say next to maybe the Bible in English. Would be Um Fiction.
Yeah. Their literature. Their fiction. Their literature. I mean, just think about the names.
Shakespeare, C.S. Lewis, Tolkien. Who else do we have? The Bronte sisters were British women. Yeah.
And then if you get into children's literature, Enid Blyton, I grew up on Enid Blyton, who did a lot of these fictions. And uh man. I grew up on British literature. Yeah. Heavy hitters in the literature.
Charles Dickens. Yep. Oh, yeah. Charles Dickens. Well-known stories.
There's a reason that they've persisted for so many years because they're just such classics. Oh, you have to take you. Most majors make you take British literature in college. Yeah. Because it's such a, it's not just like literature or fiction.
Like British literature specifically has its own impacts that have changed the way that we view story.
Well, and the story of the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe is very special this year, especially. Yeah, because it's the 75th anniversary. Isn't that crazy? Oh, the Lion the Witch. Did you guys know that when we picked it for this year?
I had no idea. That's right. I didn't either. I had no clue. Nicole pointed it out to me.
That's really crazy. That's so cool. Yeah, that is cool.
So, you know, do you want to, maybe the two of you guys can talk about what Clearview Theater is? Because if you're joining us for the first time, you may not even know that Clearview Church has a theater ministry, which is a full-on. Production. Yeah, it's a big thing. Absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely. Theater is something that a lot of people, when they hear it, they think secular. You hear theater, you think liberal, you think that's something that belongs to the world that has no place in church. Maybe there's a cantata here and there. Maybe there's a life house night.
Right. But theater is something that tells stories in a creative way. It's not reading a book. It's not watching a movie. It's live storytelling.
And that's something that's very unique. But God is a storytelling God. That's right. He's a creative God. And we have the image of God inside of us.
And that's a chance for us to engage with the image of God in a new and exciting way. Absolutely. And. You know, years ago when we were re examining our doctrinal statements. There are many that stayed true uh stayed Um I I guess did not change.
On Trinity, Father, Son, Spirit, 3 Enieth 1, did not change. And there's more to it, but. I'm just kind of hitting the basics. Scripture being the inspired, inerrant word of God, we had to put an inerrant in there because at one time inspired was enough, but there are people who will say inspired, but not inerrant.
So we put that in there. That used to go without saying, but not anymore. Yeah, but not anymore. And then we added one doctrinal statement in there, which is the cultural mandate. We are called to be the salt and the light of the world.
Salt flavors the food. Light shines in the darkness. Christians, believers, disciples are called to be. Change makers in the world. We need to season the world so that it would.
uh tastes better. Or Uh we need to light up the world so that we can see better, so that the world can see better. And Usually believers are sort of um You know, they don't like the idea of being in the world. But the Bible says, be in the world, but not of it.
So we are to be in Making a difference, but don't become part of it. In fact, try to change things and make it better. You know, it's funny because when I started here at Clearview, I had not been a Christian for very, very long, maybe six years, tops, that I'd been saved. And so I was not.
Well, versed in church culture at all, you know what I mean? Like, um, so when I heard that, and like when you say things like that, like there are people who think that theater doesn't belong in the church, and like that the church has a mission and a mandate to go out and win, I thought all that just kind of went without saying. I didn't realize that people actually genuinely thought that this doesn't belong in the church. And then the more you live and the more you hear from other people who have left their churches, you start to realize that there are people, there are leadership teams in churches who are actively taking the arts out. Like, they genuinely think it doesn't belong here, and we're removing it.
And it's odd to me. It's odd to me because I guess I just don't understand. Why it's not obvious that we're supposed to be winning people, and fiction is one of the best ways to actually win people and make them listen to you. But because it's, you know, so much. Ugliness, evil, debauchery, sinfulness, sexual immorality that has come, and of the most deviant kind has come through the arts.
Yes. True. True. And but it's like we're not doing, like, even us, like, for example, we're not doing like Jesus Christ Superstar. Right.
We're not doing, uh, what's that? Uh, what's that really, really bad one with the puppets? Avenue Q. Yeah. We're not, like, like, you know what I'm saying?
We're doing like The Wizard of Oz, Lion, Witch, and the Wardrobe. What was the one that we did? It's a Wonderful Life, West Paycoast. Yeah. Like, these are plays that don't necessarily.
Light of the Witch of the Wardrobe is an obvious Christian allegory, but not all of them are as on the nose. But all of them, Dr. Sha, you do tie back to the gospel so that our mission is still. Presented. Absolutely.
That's what makes Clearview Theater special: Dr. Shrine, your heart for arts, your heart for theater. That's something that theater is something that was special to me even before starting here at Clearview. When I was in middle school to high school, I kind of stopped playing athletics at that point. I didn't really fit in the athletic culture.
And so I went to go see my then-girlfriend, but now wife, performing in a show because she was in public school and they had a show choir program and they did musicals. And I went and watched her in a performance. I was like, I'd never seen anything like that before. Live theater. I was like, what in the world is this?
It's high school production. Yeah. So. I changed schools in between my sophomore and junior year.
Well, there were other reasons, but I'm glad that I did because the other reason, like, you liked Elizabeth?
Well, no, because she graduated.
So we went to the same school, but not at the same time.
So I went to that school, and I'm glad that I did because there was a theater program there, a strong one. And it's something that I just, I mean, there was like a part of me that came to life. Like I didn't realize that this was something that I'd been missing.
So I tracked with theater all through the rest of my high school, into college, did some community theater as well. And then I just kind of felt like that chapter of life was closed. Like that's, that's sort of it. And we'll put that book on the shelf. But then hearing your heart for theater, even before we started the theater ministry here, hearing your heart for theater and your heart for the cultural mandate and reaching people with the gospel.
By sharing devotions on a basketball team, by going out in the community, but also by having like. Excellent show. Full-on productions. Oh, full on productions. I mean, I was like I thank God every day that he brought me here, but especially that day, I was very grateful.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And when we say the productions here are excellent, like I'm. If they weren't excellent, I probably wouldn't say they're not excellent, but I'd be like, Yeah, yeah, they're fine. But when I tell you that the productions here are so next level, I would pay top dollar.
And a lot of people do pay top dollar to go see shows of this quality. But I think what you're saying is right, Ryan. Everything is so much more blessed when the pastor is on board. You know what I'm saying? When your pastor is on board with your production or with your project of any kind, God is going to bless it.
And we've seen that here at Clearview. And we've also seen, it was kind of funny when you were talking about that, like how special theater is to you. I was never super into theater, but I was into production. You know what I mean? I want to make an album or make a product.
And so, kind of being in the booth and composing the music, that's all super fun for me. But there's so many people, and here's kind of where I was going with this. Maybe you can speak to this, Dr. Shop. I think a lot of people hear this idea of you should do a theater or an arts ministry, and you think, oh, people in my church aren't going to go for that.
There are people coming out of the woodworks at Clearview, itching to get into the theater ministry. That's right. Because it just draws people. And I don't know what it is about it that draws people like that, but it surprised me how much people love and flock to the theater ministry here. And we've raised the standard here over the years.
We have taken it from just, okay. you know, we're gonna do this play in church and is going to you know, I don't know wha when it was what year was our first play? Maybe twenty eighteen? Twenty eighteen would have been the first. 2018.
2018. We would have done two in the year of 2018, and then 2019 was when we really hit the ground running with Narnia. The line that we're talking about. We did. Yeah, we did Narnia in the 2000s.
Right. So 2018 was our first one. I think that's right. Because that's, yeah, because that's the year we were in the second building. That's the year we got it.
So the first play, we did what? What was the first time? Best best Christmas imagination ever.
Okay, and that was in the new building. Yes. Relatively small production. Yeah. Yeah.
And then in the spring, we did what? We did. Mayhem and Mayville. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mayhem and Mayville.
That was in the spring of 2019. Again, very small production, like five or six cast members. That was one lucky one. That was a neat one, but again, it was a smaller. I remember the diner and all that.
Yeah, I do too. I remember Nicholas.
So Nicholas played the victim, the murder victim. He literally laid under a table for two acts for like two hours. He laid under the table with his legs. Those were fake legs for half the table. What?
For half the act. Yeah, we snuck him in there. There were fake legs? Yeah, there were fake legs at the whole time. I've spent six years thinking he laid up the table.
He wasn't laying up the whole time. Dude, that's the power of theater. I didn't know that. There you go. I spent six years thinking Nicholas laid up the table for two hours.
And then in 2019, The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe, I think that was the best. That was the first big one. Would you say? That was the first, I guess, elevation of the theater program because we went from, hey, this is kind of fun to, all right, now we're laying wardrobes, we're costumes, we're makeup, we're mics. I mean, it was, it became a full-on production then.
I don't know if this is the right way to say it, but that was the first quote-unquote real one where we're like, okay, now we're serious. Yeah. This one is like do or do not sort of. It was up a notch for sure. Yeah.
Yeah. And through the years, we have raised the bar. I mean, we have done some phenomenal plays, but we've also added to. The things that we use, like microphones, um, just uh, how we talk to one another, the wireless system, what do you call it? The clear comms, clear coms, the backstage communication, backstage communication.
I mean, it has gone to a level. We're using uh, we're using headsets that they use at places like Deepak. Oh, yeah, they're very expensive things, yeah. Oh, very expensive. Then we added lights, we added uh smoke machines, I mean, we added fog machines, all these things we began to add.
And then, when the time came for us to build the new sanctuary, the sanctuary that we're in now. we already had in mind that this needs to be a full-on Theater-ready stage. And you wouldn't believe how much that helped. Design, like designing the building with that in mind has elevated it, not only has helped, but has elevated it so much. Absolutely.
That would not have happened if we had waited to get to this point. Right. We wouldn't know. We wouldn't have learned any of the things that we learned. Right.
Yeah. I mean, the planning for. The building we got into in 2024 actually began in 20. 19. I'm sorry, 2020.
Yeah, yeah, that's true. 2020 is when we were talking about, you know, the next stage we have needs to be like this, and it needs to have big double doors in the back so we can bring in big set pieces and props. And we need to be able to have curtains up front. And that was a big fight. Yeah, I remember that.
Trying to figure out how to get the curtains up there. And our, you know, our architects were like, well, we can do this and this. And we're like, no, that's true, but we want it to cover both sides.
Well, if you cover both sides, then people won't be able to see. I was like, yeah, but we're going to have to do it this way. There was a lot of, there was a lot of, we can have this, but not this. And it was like, okay, but can we have this thing in this way? And they're like, okay, yes, that, but then not this.
And we did end up at a place where we got what we wanted and what was what we originally had designed. Absolutely. But yeah, I remember that was a process. I mean, Sunday morning, when you come here, it's a regular. Yes.
But you come on a production night and you're like I'm in a Performing Arts Center. Mm-hmm. With a curtain and and And lights and haze and effects. And it's, I mean, it really is incredible.
Well, that kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier. Like when the person on top, when the pastor, when the leader has a vision of what it should be, man, things happen. You know what I mean? God is going to bless that dedication and that leadership and that vision. He's certainly done that at Clearview.
And I can just tell you, I'm not as involved in the production of the plays as Ryan is. And so one of the things that... that kind of helps me is that I get to be amazed. And what I mean by that is I hadn't seen the snow. I'd seen like the testing of the snow, but this past weekend at the very first show, when I saw the snow come down for the first time, I was sitting in the booth like amazed.
I was like, oh my goodness. And kids, I mean, the kids were there for the first performance. It was a Friday morning show. And you could see the, oh, it's snowing. It's snowing.
They're trying to like get up and the teachers are having to sit them back down. Because it's snow all over the stage. It's incredible. And all of this is happening in a church. Yeah.
Yeah. Dr. Shaw. I mean, I know the answer. We in the room know the answer, but why?
Why all the clear comps that we can talk to each other? Why the snow machines? Why the state-of-the-art technology? Why invest so much? In this ministry, because Dr.
Shah, couldn't that money be used for the poor and the needy? Couldn't that money just be used for something a little more practical?
Well, let me just say this: when it talks about talk about poor and needy, our church is the biggest giver and supporter of mission, not only international mission, but local mission. That's right. I mean, we go into the community just over Christmas time, we're going to be helping five six hundred children. And the reason I say five, six hundred is because the number keeps growing, and we do not miss any single one of them. We find a way to bless every single one of them.
That's right. Brand new Jackets. I'm talking about winter jackets, brand new shoes. toys, gift cards. I mean This church goes above and beyond in our outreach ministry to make sure that children around here and families around here are able to celebrate Christmas.
And be warm. That's right. Winter may seem like a fun time, you know, snow and ice and all that. It's not a fun time when you're cold. That's right.
That's right. It's not a fun time when you don't have warm clothes. That's right. Yeah, we can go out and have fun and come back in and have a nice cup of hot cocoa. That's not how it is for many kids.
That's right. So we do a lot of those things. We do a lot of international missions. I mean, we're supporting churches in Africa. We're supporting churches in Haiti.
We're doing things. Of course, the North American, I mean, I'm sorry, the International Mission Board offering, the Ladimoon Christmas offering that goes to support missionaries all over the world. We do all of that. But we also believe that there is a place For Um For the arts, for Making an impact in the culture to share the gospel in a unique and a fresh way. That's right.
That's the purpose of the arts. And as Ryan already kind of mentioned in the opening, God is a creative God, and God wants us to do this. If anything I would add to that is we're doing it to bring a smile on God's face. That's right. That's exactly right.
We're doing this so that He would be pleased.
So everything we do, we do with excellence. Like on Thursday night, Next morning, Friday, was the first performance for the school kids. We were having trouble with our 3D projector. I mean, the projector was working fine, the screen was working fine, but just the way we were closing the back curtain and it was not going to, you know, it was not. The projector.
It's a hologram. Yeah. And so it needs to be, it has to, the background has to be completely right. Everything has to line up completely. Things weren't lining up the way that it needed to.
It wasn't. And so I I was ready to kind of sort of give up and say, okay. Let's now call up the curtain guy. Let's work with him for the next performance. But at that moment, David stepped up and said, No, let me try this and that.
And then Ryan's like, okay, I think we can do this and that. And then our team, Nicholas and Adam and Katie, who were here, and of course, the other people would have done the same thing, but the ones who were here. put up and took down the scaffold. Wow. And They were not going to give up until They Had tried every avenue to make sure that that projector would be the best.
That it could be. And look at the result. Yeah. Look at the result. Oh, yeah, absolutely.
There's a scene where the white witch, it's the end of act one where she raises her wand and you hear thunder and the lights flash with lightning and the lightning shoots up from the bottom up on the projector. And I mean, you know, it's like, it really looks like there's magic happening on the stage right in front of me. Yeah, it's incredible. And so I was so. Proud of our team, especially Ryan, is because y'all did not give up.
You stayed on it, you got it done, and you did it because. Is worth doing it because we're doing it to the glory of God. We're doing it to magnify. Jesus. We're doing it so that the gospel may capture some heart, young and old, male, female, doesn't matter.
No matter where you come from, whoever you are, maybe it captures your heart in such a way. That in spite of the problems they're facing in spite of um the struggles they may be going through. the doubts and the frustrations that they may have This will be that light in their world that would draw them to Christ. That's right. This would somehow open their eyes that they can.
Say Maybe I should check this out. That's right. There's something here. Yeah. And come to find Jesus Christ.
That is the purpose behind this. And you've so infused that culture into Clearview Theater and into all of us that excellence is the only option. There's not an alternative. Because we understand what's at stake. We understand that this isn't just a, this isn't just a performance.
This isn't just a school kids. No, this is the chance for these kids to hear the gospel. This is the Holy Spirit using. Actors and stage hands and tech team and everything as his instruments to tell the story of what Christ has done for us. That's right.
And so, if that's what's on the line, then excellence is the only option. There's not a plan B. And we talked about this on the show from last week, I think the last show that we did, is that there is a performative element to your Christian walk and your Christian life. And so many people balk at that because they see performance as equivalent to lying. You know, it's lying.
It's fake. If you're even works-based salvation, of course, if you're here at Clearview any period of time, you'll know that it's all by grace through faith. All by grace through faith. That's right. That's exactly right.
But when it comes to your Christian life, there's a performative element. And I think you can get over this hang-up that some because so many people, golly, it's so crazy how many people are like, worship is not a performance and there's no room to perform before God. I think, and Dr. Sha, you've helped me see this. We just disagree entirely because I don't see it as, hey, God, here's my performance.
Now judge it and give me an A based on how I done. How I've done. It's like we see it as little children who, you know, they want to play pretend with their parents. Yeah, daddy, watch this. Daddy, watch this.
I want to show you this. I want to act out this scene for you. I want to do this for you. I want to present to you. I want to sing this song for you.
You don't say, now, son. You can't do that so that I'll love you more. That's not good. No, you say, man, I love that. Look how creative.
Look how good you are. That's the relationship that God wants from us. And I think. Clearview Theater, to me, Demonstrates that so well. And it inspires me.
It inspires me to do better in worship. It inspires me to do better as a husband and as a father. And there are other ministries we have, like basketball ministries. I mean, come on a Saturday, you'll see them. There are families there from first thing in the morning until late in the afternoon.
Game after game after game after game.
Some just sit there and watch game after game because it's like, yeah, it's not my children playing now. It's other Clearby kids and other church kids. And that's fine. I'm going to watch this. And that's great.
I love it. I think that's wonderful. There are other things that we do that are also just great, just amazing, like serving in the community, going to our acts. ministries, which is Area Christians Together in Service, where we provide food and things like that to those who are less fortunate in our community.
So there are many ways we do that. But Theater ministry is a different kind of ministry. That's right. And it's wonderful. I know it was wonderful.
To For me to sit there and watch Ryan's kids on stage. Yeah. You know, there were two of his kids in that lead role of Lucy and Susan in those four kids. uh in Chronicles of Narnia or The Lion, the Witch in the Wardrobe. And man, they were doing a great job.
They did. They did so a good job. And then Evie was in the back as a stagehand, and Noah was taking pictures. He was a photographer for the day. And and so, you know, seeing your kids Enjoying this.
And Thriving in it. I mean, it gives you joy as a parent to know that man. I am not only like. Seeing my kids excel. But I'm part of making that happen.
And Your kids cannot grow up and say, Man, dad, you weren't there. That's right. Because you were there the whole time. I see it as sort of. And mom was there too.
Yeah. Elizabeth is the also, along with Nicole and Natasha Trapp, Nicole, my wife, are the directors. Yeah, that's true. I see it as sort of poetic because, Dr. Shah, the first time we did it, both of your kids were in it.
Yeah, I think where the girls in Abigail was. Yeah. Your kids were in it. And then this play, your kids are in it. Probably by the time we do it again in 10, 15 years, my kids are.
The voice will be in it. I'm listening to this episode. I want this in my church. How do I start? Start small.
I mean, start with the nativity scene. With Joseph, Mary, baby Jesus, Shepherds, Wise Men. I know they didn't all come at the same time. I get it. No need to write me.
Someone's deleting your message right now.
Okay, I don't have anything to do with it. But it is something that you can begin. We've been doing this for decades, right? Yeah. And some churches don't do it anymore.
Well, do it this time. Do a live nativity scene. Yeah. Start. With that, and then build it up slowly.
And what you're going to find is like one of our church members who is also has been an actor before. This time, he was a stage hand in the back, a Steven. He came to me and said, Look, let me just say this. This ministry helps my family. Wow.
Because being here gives me an opportunity to connect with other guys. I talk to them, I spend time with them. This is like a Bible study group. As we act, as we perform, as we build things, as we, on the day of the production, do all this stuff, we are growing in Christ. That's right.
And it's a unique way of doing that, but it. Has helped me tremendously. And that's what he said. Yeah, absolutely. Amen.
You're right. And there's people listening to this right now, I know, who want this. They want this ministry and this community and this family and this fellowship at their church. That's right. So important.
You can have it too. You can, absolutely. Guys, make sure you join us next time. Same time, same place. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clearview Today show.
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