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Well, first of all, congratulations, 50 years, that's very cool. Yeah. A wise man once said, Apple doesn't look back, we look forward. That's right. But is there wisdom to be gleaned by taking a moment to contemplate this park so far?
Yeah, we think so. We don't look back as a part of our culture, as you know very well from your days watching us.
So we've had to build a new muscle, honestly. It's something that we just don't do. We're always focused on the next thing and improving something that exists today. You know, trying to see around the corner and give people something they didn't know that they wanted. And so it's been different, but I think it's of great value as it turns out.
to look back and feel grateful for the journey, to feel grateful for all of the characters that have been a part of that journey. To reflect on Steve and the principles that he laid out for the company that are still living today. And so I think all of these things, and a reminder. of why we do it. that we do it to enrich other people's lives.
you know, to empower them to do things they couldn't otherwise do. Lord, they can change the world and we can celebrate them and do it all over again. And so I think there is value in it. And we've but it's a new muscle for us. You had to block out time that wasn't originally in your schedule.
That's right. So, as I understand it, you have been here for more than half of the company's history. That's right, 28 years. Wow. Yeah, in a few days, I'll celebrate the 28th anniversary.
Nice. Yeah. Can you tell the folks the condition of the company when you arrived? Yeah, it was bleak, to be honest. The company had very little cash.
We were still in the mode of making sure we could meet the payroll. The company had shrunk down to Basically, $1.3, $1.4 billion of revenue a quarter. And the company had shrunk its population down, so there was a small team. And we had lost our way. You know, the company had drifted without Steve.
And Steve had come back and was reinvigorating the company. And he had a vision. that was so unique at that time that he wanted to go after the consumer. Everybody else was going after the enterprise, if you remember that period of time. Everybody thought that was the thing to do.
Steve was turning the exact opposite way, and I thought it was brilliant. And uh And so I I jumped at the chance to join the company. And uh but it was those days were difficult days. And it wasn't inevitable that the company would succeed. I was advised by the people that knew me best.
not to call it. Not to come. I was working at Compaq at the time, which was the largest personal computer company in the world. How ironic is that? Yeah.
And uh but Uh I saw In Steve something I'd never seen in a CEO before. He had a passion for product. that was so unique and refreshing. And he thought about the world in a very different way. And uh I was Taken in the first meeting with him, and I wanted to throw caution to the wind and join, despite the condition of the company.
Wow. Yeah. You threw caution and the advice of all your colleagues. I did. I did, and it was the best decision I ever made.
It fundamentally changed my life. And I don't mean because I'm CEO, but just working at Apple with the brilliant people here and feeling the energy. and really, really focusing on Changing the world in some kind of positive way and making your contribution and And that's what it's all about at the end of the day, you know, is improving other people's lot in life. And so it gave me great meaning. And I, you know, reflecting, I was 38 at the time, I think.
I think I had gone through that not really having a purpose in life until arriving at Apple. And it was an incredible feeling and I've never looked back. Wow. Fantastic. Um you have shared um something really moving when Steve was dying.
When C was dying, he gave you some advice. Yeah. Can you? Yeah, he told me when he he called me over to his house and he told me he wanted me to be the CEO. And I debated with him a little bit and said, Are you sure you don't want to be CEO anymore?
And I thought at the time that he would live a long time, honestly. He was going to be executive chairman, and I was going to be CEO. And obviously, it didn't turn out that way. But his advice to me. was Never asks what I would do.
Just do the right thing. And so he saw, and he told me the story behind this. He was very close to Disney, as you know, his history. He had watched Disney go through this paralysis of sitting around and talking about what Walt would do. And he did not want that for Apple.
He wanted a professional transition at CEO because Apple had never had one before. There was always some issue that prompted a CEO change. It was always done at a time of panic. A panic. And he wanted it to be a professional and orderly kind of transition.
And he had thought about it, as you would guess. at a very deep level. And I'll never forget that. It was such a gift for me. because he took off of my shoulder this question of what would Steve do?
You know, a lot of other people ask that, although not so much in the company. But I never did. you know, I just put my head down and and thought, I'm going to be the best version of myself. But surely some of the principles and values that Steve had are the right thing to do. I mean, how do you know?
When given that advice, how do you know when to stick with what Steve would have done and when to deviate from?
Well, his principles are the DNA of this company. 50 years after its inception, and I hope 100 years and 200 years into the future, because they're so incredible. You know, he had the vision that the collaboration. was something that would produce great results. that 1 plus 1 is equal to 3, not 2.
That if you share an idea and debate it, it gets bigger and better. And if you care enough, That you call somebody at 10 at night because you just had an idea that incredible things can come out of that. He had an idea of focus. that you say no to a thousand things, to s to say yes to the one that's truly important, and that when you do something, you should do it at an excellence level that isn't where good isn't good enough. It has to be insanely great.
And so, all of these ideas, and that Apple should own. It's hardware and software and later services. because it's the intersection of these things that produces magic for the user. He had the user at the center of everything. You know, he was always obsessed with the user experience.
and how customers would experience our products and what they could do with them. And so all of these things are the ethos of a company. Uh today and and And when he was here, and I'm sure from the founding of the company, although that part of the history I don't know as well as you do. I mean, that's an interesting question. These through lines have obsessed me.
Knowing what you know. Are there any values and principles in place today that date all the way back to the two Steves. Oh, I think a lot of this I a lot of the ideas about building something insanely great was there in the early days. The idea that you could put something out into the world And it would be amazing and wonderful for people to use. I think this dates back to the creation of the company.
this idea that collaboration And bringing together people with different lens and different viewpoints on things, and putting them in a rock tumbler, and turning in and to see what comes out. I think that was from the founding days of the company. And it's still the case today. If you went into a meeting here, We argue and debate everything. But out of those meetings and out of those conversations come better ideas, bigger ideas.
And so I think a lot of those date back to the origin of the company. We'll have more from our Sunday morning extended interview after this break. Pancetta, mushroom, tortellini. You can eat smart, still fitting your bikini. I ordered blue apron, I've been happy ever since.
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Sign up for your $1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer. But you've added some. principles and values of your own. I mean, the company seems more.
socially Aware. Inclusiveness, accessibility, education. Yeah, I think, you know, a company is a collection of people. And people should have values, and therefore a company should have values. That's my simpleton view of the world.
And so the things that we bring to the table are things like accessibility. We want everybody to be able to use our products. And so we designed them from the start: if somebody's blind, that they can use our product, or if somebody's deaf, they can use our product. Privacy. We think it's a fundamental human right.
And so we design privacy into our products from the get go. We believe everybody should be treated with dignity and respect. And so we treat each other like that. We have a great trust in the way that we. We treat each other and we treat our customers that way.
We treat everyone that we come in contact with that way. We believe in education. because for many of us, it was the great equalizer. You know, I come from a very modest background, and education was so critical in my trajectory. It's so, so critical.
And so all of these things and our focus on the environment. Our belief in sustainability and reducing carbon emissions, all of these things are a part of who we are as people. and they help guide our decision making. I don't know if you've been reading the news, but we are living in a very chaotic time with a lot of change. Does that make it any harder to maintain those values?
No, I think it, in a lot of ways, I think it makes it more important to have them. And so you can see your way in a world that is dynamic and changing and so forth. I think it's critical to have a North Star. And you might get buffeted with the wind blowing and so forth, but you keep moving toward the North Star. And that's the way I see it.
Apparently, whatever you're doing is working because, by many metrics, this company is now. triple or quadruple. the size and the profitability it was when you arrived as CEO. Um What are the pros and cons of being a huge company? It's been a wild ride.
It's been a wild ride. The pros are things, you know, we live. to serve people products that enable them to do great things with them. And so as you get larger, you can do more of that. As you get larger, you can go in a few more categories of products.
Not too many still. For our size, we do very few things because we want to do it at the quality level that we need. Uh with the size come scrutiny as well. And regulatory regimes. In the early days, there was no regulatory for TAG.
Now there is, in that, I worry about that. because it can slow innovation. Not all of it. There's some regulation that is good, but there's some that is, there are not. We have about 100,000 more team members versus 15 years ago.
And with that comes great opportunity. Because you can touch a lot more people, you can do more things. But overall, I see it as a privilege. Overall, it is a privilege.
So, I want to talk a little bit about the future.
So, what's in the next iPhone? Another through line is the focus on secrecy. We're obsessed with staying secret about things we're working on. That's right. But are there times when you have time?
to think about the larger picture of the future of Apple and the future of technology? Yes, of course. A large part of what we do is focusing all on the future, as we talked about. We're always trying to see around the corner. and identify things before other people identify things and begin working on those.
You know, in our labs right now, we're working on things for, you know, several years out. When you design your own silicon, you must do that. You must have the discipline. to have fairly long-term view, given the speed that technology runs at. I saw an interview you did in 2015.
And this is getting back to our conversation about Steve and how much Steveness is there. And at the time, you said, this really is still Steve's company. Would you still say that? Yes. He's very much, his DNA is deep in this company.
And we revere him. And there's not a day that goes by that I don't think about him. Not about what he would be doing and what the second guessing kind of things. But just the the fact that he Had such great vision and such great principles. that all this time later, That it still serves as the guide rails for a company like Apple.
You know, his greatest, other than his family, His greatest invention. wasn't a product. It was Apple itself. And it's a privilege to be here. But this is, you mentioned his ability to see around corners.
This is what I don't get. There are so many times when he made decisions that seemed absolutely crazy at the time. And forgive me, there was even second guessing in the press about his choosing, you, you are the anti-Steve Jobs. You are not volatile and explosive, you know? And every time, he was right.
How does he do that? I don't know. He's a brilliant guy. He was a genius. He is a once in a thousand years kind of person.
He's of that magnitude. And And you know, I I loved him. He was uh In addition to being all of those things, he was a dear friend as well. Yeah, I st I miss him terribly. Um okay, one final thing.
Yeah. Um This is Silicon Valley. There's a lot of employee and executive shifting from company to company. How is it that nobody's studied What you do here, or hired the people who used to be here and recreated this company's success? It's, you know, the secret of Apple.
people and culture. Those are the two things that are so essential. Yes, we have a lot of intellectual property and so forth, and that is important. But it's people that create that intellectual property. It's the culture that creates the innovation with the intellectual property.
And And so this culture is a if you feed it and nurture it. it sustains itself and grows and evolves. but on the set of principles that he laid out. probably from the very first day that he was in the garage. And And so I think it's very difficult to replicate culture.
And it's because it takes a long time because you have to hire the right people. And then those people have to hire the right people. And you have to build a complete organization. And you have to go through cycles. Where life is changing, the external world changes.
And you've got to sustain. During those cycles of change, the technology changes. It has air pockets. of technology where you can do something remarkably different all of a sudden. And so all of these things require a culture to learn.
And to be reinforced over years. And so I think. Apple is such a unique place, it's not possible to replicate it. That's how I feel. I know a lot of different companies, and I think Apple is just in a party of one.
It's it's remarkable enough that it's still here with the same mission of turning advanced technology into tools that I mean I note that Samsung started out as a dried fish vendor, and Nokia was a paper mill. But Apple fifty years in. is still Apple. Yeah, still building insanely great products. That enriches people's lives.
That is what it's about at the end of the day.
Well put and congratulations on 50. Thank you. Thank you, man. Thank you. There actually is no TV story.
I just wanted to ask you. I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening. And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday Morning on the free Odyssey app. or wherever you get your podcasts.
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