This episode is supported in part by the Christian Standard Bible, a translation designed to be faithful to the original text and clear for everyday readers. We're grateful for their partnership in helping bring gospel-centered content to families like yours. To learn more about the CSB, visit csbible.com. I think the biggest discipleship tool that we have is our lives. It's not what we say as much as what we're living.
It's so hard. It feels impossible, but cling to Jesus, be desperate, surrender your life and then your kids' lives. And I think you'll be amazed what God can do. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.
And I'm Ann Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today. Happy Mother's Day. We have our panel back with us today, and it's going to be fun to dive back into what it's like to be a mom and some of the struggles and some of the wins.
So let's jump in. Gwen, do you think it gets easier or harder as your kids get older, that kind of surrender? It depends on the kid because. As kids get older, what we've experienced a lot of times is that, um, As parents, and I'm assuming you would know this, when you have young adults and they're making decisions and you're telling them, oh, you probably don't want to do this. It's not that you're trying to control them.
It is one, you're trying to keep them, one, from harming themselves because when you get in trouble, I get in trouble. Because who are you going to call when you get in trouble? It makes your life harder. Exactly.
So it's not, I'm not just trying to protect you. I'm trying to protect me.
So I know you think I'm trying to control you and all of that. And so, but at the same time, they've got to try it for themselves. I don't really know what I'm talking about. It's them, not me. You know, I can get past this and it won't happen to me kind of thing.
And so those times are hard because you kind of know that there's a ledge over there and, you know, they're about to walk off this ledge, but they really have to see if it is in invisible ground that you can, you know, it's solid over there. And it's those types of things. And so that is hard. It's hard to see your older kids hurt. Because again, you want to give advice and you try to give advice.
And what we've learned is. They want help, but they don't want advice. It's like, just give me your help, you don't have to say anything. And Daryl has this saying, it's like, my help costs, and it's advice. Like, you're not just going to get my help without you.
You're going to have to, you know.
So, that's good. I'm going to file that one away. Yeah, that's the word.
So, um, those are the times it gets hard because you're seeing them, you know, about to crash into a wall many times, but they don't want you to tell them that there is a wall there. Just help me once I crash. Just come, you know, get me out of this. And so, that's hard to do because once they crash, you're not going to leave them out there. Yeah.
But then they don't want to hear, I told you so, or any advice.
So, what do you, what are your prayers like then? My prayers for my kids are mostly, you know, I believe that all of my kids have professed the Lord and all of that, even sometimes, I mean, but none of us make all the right decisions, but that their desire and love for him grow and that they have a closer walk with him. Yeah. Because what they don't hear from me, maybe they'll hear from him. That's good.
And do you feel like you're in that constant surrender? Of your kids too. Oh, totally. And Maria, do you think that's necessary for us to do to surrender our kids? Yeah.
Definitely. Because what happens if we don't?
Well, I mean, it's all an illusion if we think we have any control over them, anyways.
So it's just a matter of is our heart surrendered and submitted to God or is it not? Yeah. And to me, it's an idol. If we're looking to our kids to bring us happiness, identity. Security, usually some of those things are torn down.
But I've seen parents put their hopes and dreams in their kids. It's such a fleeting kind of thing. And if our kids feel the pressure of, I'm everything to my mom and my dad, we don't want that either.
So What does that look like on a day to day spiritually? How do you bring Jesus into parenting? You talked about it a little bit, Maria.
So you're doing Bible study. But what other kind of things can we do? There's a lot for me, a lot of during the day. One thing I used to do that Bruce was like, it's a little flippant, so maybe you should try to find something else is I would just start singing the song Jesus Take the Wheel in the moments when it was like, I'm about to lose it, you know, like I would just start singing the song. Wait, go ahead.
I want to hear it. No, I'm not going to laugh. No, but it was just like, it would make me laugh. Like, it would be funny.
So it would like release the tension in the moment. Did the girls sing it too? Yeah. And then also like put my focus back on Jesus. I think that's beautiful.
You keep going. I love it. Keep going. I love it. You know, it's basically a surrender.
Jesus take the wheel is a surrender moment. It doesn't matter where it came from. Yes. But, you know, just not wanting to use the Lord's name so flippantly all the time. But yes.
Just trying to. Wait, wait, wait. Bruce.
So what do you think Bruce is in here listening to Maria and his wife? What did you mean by that when you said, Hey, I don't know?
Well, it came so okay. I didn't know I'd have to defend myself on this. We think you're wrong. It came across to me as a little flippant. Yeah, like just it was almost like in jest.
I'm usually very cautious. I love to make fun of ourselves. I don't like to make. light of God's name, but You know, I don't know. But maybe it was a prayer.
I mean, it was. It could be. And if it is, then go for it. Say it as loud as you can. You know, maybe I'm doing a little projection.
Yeah, so it's just kind of a lot of like in the moment, like, please help me right now because I'm this close to just. Losing his own. And I've definitely had times where I've been like I'll be right back, and I just like go to my room and shut the door and just take a minute and just be like. Help me, Lord, because and I would say to our kids, because I can get hot quick, and so I would say, run to the other room and sit in a chair. You better run, run as fast as you can.
And they know they can see me like boiling, but I need a minute, just as you said, I need a minute to gather myself because I get mad and things are crazy. And so, just to gather yourself, I need that second. They're little breathy prayers, like Jesus, I need you right now. It is like Jesus takes the wheel. I think I've heard it once.
And so I was trying to when she was singing. I'm like, I've heard that from somewhere.
Okay. Because you're not in the country. Oh, I am. Oh, I don't listen to it like that, but I do this. It's an old song, though.
Oh, it is old. Yeah. Okay, so. And then one part of the song is: I'm letting go. There it is.
The principle is there, right? Like we do try to hold on, and you know, yeah, I mean, because some things we can't spiritualize, but that is really what he wants us to do, is to let go and allow him to do the driving, right? Like, it's that. And I will say that one of the things, too, that surprised me is how much worry I would have. The older our kids got, and I think for the younger generation, with phones, with TV, with media, with platforms, it's crazy town.
And so, I think, as a mom, I can remember even when they were in high school finding myself just like wanting to control situations, but needing to let go. And so, knowing what to do with that worry, I would find myself visually seeing myself handing Jesus all the things. I couldn't sleep until I would do that at times. Hey friends, Ron Deal here. Did you know that for 50 years, Family Life has been working around the world and in your backyard to teach couples, parents, and families how to love God and love one another?
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So let's turn it a little bit. Let's talk about discipling our kids. We hear that term all the time. Are you discipling your kids? How are your discipleship going?
You know, what does that look like? And how can we help our listeners get a grasp of this? Is this something that's important? For us as moms. Since I've gone through it, let's hear it.
Bring it in. Teach you. When we first came on staff, family life, you know, we're introduced to family life and Dennis Rainey and all his books and all of this and having Bible study with the kids and we'd sit down with our kids to get ready to have family, you know, Bible study and they're like this. You know, and all of this. And every time it was, you know, it was just, it was a battle.
Like, it was that. And I think after a while, it was like, this isn't working for us. Like, it sounds good in the book. Like, I don't know how they did it and made it work so perfectly for us. It just didn't happen.
But, you know, again, we made sure we kept them in Sunday school in places, again, where they're being taught. And, you know, at home, living out. biblical principles, you know, and all of this. And you teach as you go why you don't do certain things or say certain things or whatever it is. But to just be honest, the Bible studies, the sitting down, it just did not.
Like we tried it over and over, and it would just be, you know, especially video games were becoming really big and popular to tell them you got to cut it off so that we can have a little devotional here. Yeah, that's a tough sell. You want a family fight? There you go. I had a grand, I had a grandchild just tell me a couple.
days ago like I like Pokemon way better than God Well, at least they're honest. Yes, I do. But yeah, that's really hard.
So are you saying that you failed at it? Yeah. No, but it may not look like what we thought it would look like. Because I would be depressed when I was around the rainys and certain people. I'm like, he said, they probably like, tell us more, mother and father.
What else does Jesus say to us? And we never had that one time, especially having three sons. But what can it look like? I bet you discipled your kids. I know you did.
I mean, I'm sure I did. Probably not in, I would call the rainy way. The rainy way. I think the families have to work out what works for them. That's it.
Because if you try to make your family out of, you know, mold it into what worked for somebody else, it's not. It just doesn't work like that. And Barbara Rainey would say, it was never like that. We didn't have that, you know.
So, yeah.
Well, and you did say that you've always tried to have like an open door.
So I'm guessing you made yourself available. To your kids, to have conversations, to ask questions, and all the things like that. What about you, Kate? I mean, your kids are still pretty young. Yeah.
Your stepson is how old is he now? He's eight.
Okay. Mhm. But he maybe similarly to some of what I'm hearing, yeah, not in not inclined to sit ever. For anything at all.
So, certainly not for let's now have a structured time of normal for boys. Totally, totally.
So, it's been another one of those categories of okay, I, you know, as I read a lot of books and Parenting books can be hard for me. Often.
Well, it does. It feels like here's all these great things you should do. And many of them are just genuinely out of reach because of the circumstances in which our family functions. And it's like, well, I agree with you that that is a great idea. The problem is it's not an option.
So now what? What else? What else does it look like? It's like you need to write a parenting book. You should.
Maybe in like 30 years. We'll see how they turn out first.
So what do you do?
So yeah, I think for us, well, it started.
So when we got married, when my husband or I would try to pray before a meal, my stepson would plug his ears. It was like, all right, well, let's just start with praying before our meals. Yeah. That's where it began: let's pray before meals. And then eventually he kind of got used to it because he didn't like it.
He wasn't about it.
Now, occasionally, he'll add his own little thing into whatever it is that he's excited about that he'll add as we're praying over a meal. Um, And so it looks like a million little things. Just this past week or two, he's been having a really hard time on our transition night. The night that he knows is my last night at dad's house, and I'm going to mom's house, and vice versa. He really struggles that night.
And I said something to my husband. I was like, you know what? I wonder if it's time because he started to talk more about God. He started to be a little more curious. And that's been my prayer from early on.
I was like, God, there's not a lot of openness when we first got married to things of God in my stepson. And so I just started praying that God would make him curious. Just inspire, because he is naturally curious. He wants to know. He wants to understand things.
God has answered that prayer. There have been a number of things that he and questions he asked that my husband's like, I don't know how I answered that question. Like, that's a really good question. But so I said the other, the other day, I was like, I wonder if it's time to start planting the seed that God goes with him. That's good.
Between every house. It's painful that he has to go from house to house and that he never gets to have both his mom and his dad at the same time. Yeah. They're both a part of his life. Sure.
But it's not the same. He always gets one or the other. And so I was like, I wonder if he's ready to receive some sense of comfort in the fact that God will go with him no matter where he goes. And I have often prayed. That God's presence would be there with him in a way that maybe looking back, he can see it.
That's really because right now. That's not where his head space is, and it won't be for a very long time, I don't imagine. But if he could be able to look back and be able to identify God's presence. Could you ever say to him like I'm so praying. Like, that's got to be super hard for you sometimes.
And I'm praying, like, I know that God is always with you. Or you could even say it personally: I know that God never leaves me. And I know because of that, and what the Bible says, He never leaves you. And that might not be something you're interested in, but He's always. That makes me so happy that I'm never alone because He's with me.
And with stepkids, you probably have to do these subtle little drops, little nuggets at a time. Yes. Is that true? Yes, that's very accurate. But I love how your mindset is you're thinking through your discipleship with Him, you know?
Mm-hmm. It's cool. What about you, Maria? Uh, mine's a little bit more traditional, a little more rainy esque, you might say. What's that look like?
Praise God, that's a beautiful I know. She has four girls, too.
So they'll sit, you know, not a super long time, but we we home school.
So, we do a lot of sitting and reading aloud and things like that. And oftentimes, my solution is to have. Things for them to do with their hands while they're listening.
So that kind of helps remove some of the nervous energy, like magnetiles and coloring and things like that. But I know so they don't have to sit with their hands folded. They can be doing, I do have friends of boys who have boys who are like, Yeah, my kids don't color. Yeah, coloring is not a thing without color. What is that?
My girls love to color. But anyway, so yeah, we have every morning we have our morning time on the couch and we sing hymns together. We do our catechism together. We do scripture memory. And the catechism goes along with what they're learning in their Sunday school class at church.
So there's overlap. It's not always that way. It just happens to be that way this time around. And we are reading through the Bible that kind of overlaps with also their history.
So maybe you and Bruce should write a book. And I will say, shout out to my husband Bruce because he has always been so faithful with family devotions because we do that in the morning, but then Bruce always does a family devotion at dinner time. Always.
Well, almost always. Almost always. There's a few nights here and there that you skip, but like you are pretty faithful to. When you have the energy, when you can. What does that look like promotion at the dinner table?
We have a book with, I think it's Nancy Guthrie, isn't it? I love that he's pulling out snacks. Oh, yeah. Nancy has some great snacks. Yes, we read through that.
We read through Kevin DeYoung has, it's a really long title, like the biggest story book, Bible Storybook, or something like that. Yeah, our son's going through that, and it was awesome. It's good.
So, yeah, it's got to be quick. You got to have like one point. Yeah. At Christmas, we do like the Our Advent blocks. You guys have had them on the program.
I love it. Yep. Having boys. I had expectations of what Dave should do.
So, when I hear Bruce, I would have heard somebody like that. I'm like, that's what Dave should be doing. And then I'd have this bitterness in my heart. But one of the things we can do, so let's just bring it down to everybody's level as parents, we can pray for them. And just even praying out loud.
I don't know if a listener is, maybe you've never done that before, but it's a great place to start is out loud with your kids, you know. Of just, I mean, I would put them in car seats and pray as I put them in car seats. Or we'd drive to school and I'd pray. And when they got out of the car, I'd pray.
So simple, quick prayers. They didn't even have to pay attention. But bedtime was one of my favorite times that we would pray over our kids. Each one of them, we'd have a little quick, like little quick Bible study, not a Bible study, but we'd read some scripture or a book that really pointed to God with scripture in it. And sometimes they didn't pay attention, but it was okay.
But we were just trying to put these deposits in them. And it's interesting, too. because I think our youngest, I asked him one time, because I think the biggest discipleship tool that we have is our lives. It's not what we say as much as what we're living. And I would come home with these stories and still do of.
And some of you may have heard some of my stories, like, hey, guys, you won't believe this, but I was going like down this town and I saw this lady come out of a bar and she was so drunk. And you know, they're like middle school, high school. She was so drunk, she couldn't even walk. And she had this big purse. And so I stopped to pick her up.
And, you know, they're like, you picked up some random lady and she's drunk. And I said, I know. I wondered, like, is she going to throw up in the car? And so I had this bag and I put it down. And I also thought, can I take her?
You know, can I fight her if she's spicy? And I decided, yes, I could. And she's so inebriated that she probably didn't have a lot of control.
So, anyway, telling those kind of stories and saying, like, and so I found out her name was Mary and I put my hand on her and I prayed for her and I said, Mary, God loves you so much. There's not a moment in your life that he hasn't seen you and he loves you. And she's like, I love God. You know, she's so wasted. And then she did say, I don't know how to get home.
And so now I'm like, I don't even, I'm telling the boys this at our dinner table. You guys, she doesn't know where she lives. You know, and now they're like, what did you do?
So those stories of like being in a grocery store and paying for someone's groceries or feeling like God spoke to me to do something and to be obedient to that. I think as they get older and even younger, like I just shared some of our stories with our 10 and undergrandkids of things that God. Had done. Those are little pieces of discipleship, and kids love stories and they love to hear what God can do. And so I think those are kind of some simple things.
And I was going to say at bedtime too. I've shared this before, but when our first son did get married, Dave and I, our three sons slept in the same room. He was in bed, and we got on our knees. We laid our hands on him to pray for him because it would be his last night as a single man in our house. And We prayed over him, we cried, and we asked him: what will be the thing that you missed about living under this roof as a man?
And he said, This: these nights where you and Dad prayed over us, loved us, listened to us. He said, I will miss that. And so now to see him with his four. He has two adopted, two bio kids, and um He's way better than we ever were. He not only reads the scripture, he sings over them every night.
I'm like, that's such a good idea. It's more than just Jesus take the wheel, too. Yeah. Yes, that's Bruce. Like, I'm just one time.
I'm so done. I'm like, just get in your bed and let me close the door, please. Yes. And Bruce goes in there and he prays with them and he sings the song with them. What do you sing, Bruce?
A lot of times. That's what Austin sings. Oh, yeah. That's the most popular. Although, when they make requests, it's always this little light of mine.
Also, Your Blood Is Washed Away, my son. Oh, that's a good one. That's Chloe's favorite. And I'll add this as we close to. We as parents should be sharing the gospel with our kids.
It can start when they're so little. I used to start with Genesis 3, the fall, and how God loved Adam and Eve and sin. He gave them a choice because love gives a choice. God gave them a choice to walk with them, but they chose to eat the fruit. But then the greatest, and I'll say that, but the greatest gift God did was He said, I will send my son to die for that sin.
And so to give them a grasp of the gospel, and I know that our days as moms can seem so long, so mundane, so boring. But then you have those moments of the miraculous in the midst of the mundane. And I can remember our five-year-old was in bed crying one night, and his little three-year-old brother was in the twin bed next to him on the other side of the room. And I said, Why are you crying? And he said, Mom, what if Austin.
doesn't give his life to Jesus and he's not with us in heaven. And I just cried like, he gets it. He gets it. And so we prayed for him together that night. But if it's not in our hearts, it's not going to come off our tongues.
And so it starts with us, moms. It's so hard. It feels impossible, but cling to Jesus. Be desperate. As we've talked about, surrender your life and then your kids' lives.
And I think you'll be amazed what God can do. It's not going to be pretty and perfect. I'll just say that. But God can do way more than we could ever ask or imagine. Amen.
Thanks for being with me today. This has been fun. Happy Mother's Day. Hey, and as we close, we at Family Life are all about relationships, parenting, family. We want to equip you.
We want to bless you. We want to give you tools and resources that will be a benefit to you and your family. And you can go to familylife.com slash parenting help. to find out more. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry.
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