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This is Jane Pauley. You might think of him as the wrestler known as The Rock, or maybe the actor front and center in those fast and furious movies. Dwayne Johnson is in conversation with Sunday Morning's Tracy Smith. Just listen to that. Either of the breeze, it's Is that true?
I sit out here every morning. and meditate, do some breath work and Right here on this porch. And you close your eyes? It's amazing. what your uh What's your what your ears become attuned to.
and what you hear. It's all the stuff that we kind of don't hear when our eyes are open. Close your eyes, you sit in silence. Hear everything. And you do that every morning?
Every morning. Every morning, as the sun is coming up. Uh-huh. It's beautiful.
So let's talk about where you just were, Venice Film Festival. The film got a 15-minute plus standard. standing ovation. What was going through your head and your heart? I I was um I was really I was really I was really overwhelmed by that.
went into Venice. Wanting to be unattached to an outcome, wanting to be unattached to what's going to happen and because you're in competition and you were invited and I felt like Maybe. At this point and stage in my life, I can just go in being a little bit more as calm as possible. Not expecting too much?
Well, there's not expecting anything. I just was happy to be in competition and happy that Venice saw the film and they felt it was good enough. To be in competition.
So I didn't want to expect anything. I went in neutral. I had this phrase that I was saying to myself. as I was going into Venice and when I landed, which was look. Just act like you've been here.
Be cool. Right? Just act like you've been here. It's kind of like what you tell a football player if they score a touchdown, act like you've been in the end zone before.
So I was like, okay, I'll act like I've been here. And Tracy, I um To my right was Mark Kerr. Oh. Is the man who I played, who lived this life of ups and downs and addiction and ODing twice and. He's lucky to be alive and it's the first time that I watched it with him side by side.
He had watched the film before a few times. We always gave him space to watch it and then we'll talk after, but I watched It there in Venice with him, and I felt his body. shaking during these scenes, especially the intense scenes where There you saw the film, there are big fights that happen with The love of his life. And And he goes through loss. Uh multiple times.
So I felt his body shaking. That was emotional for me.
So by the time the lights come on, I'm all ready. wiping tears away and then the applause happens and I spent a couple of days in Venice when we went in. We had to do press and a press conference. And as you're scrolling through your phone, you're seeing all these films in competition, and they're getting these standing ovations. And this film with these stars and these incredible actors and directors, they're getting five-minute ovations and six-minute.
I was thinking, I hope maybe we get two minutes. Or somebody will clap. You don't know. It was my first time in Venice. Again, act like you've been there, but it was hard for me to act like I've been there because I hadn't.
and I didn't know what to expect. And then that applause was was an eruption. And We were supposed to I guess they were supposed to wait until the credits rolled. They didn't wait. until the credits rolled.
There's a card at the end that says in his name is Mark Kerr. And that was it. And they forced the lights on with their applause. Stood there with Emily, and of course, our director, Benny Safde, and Mark. And for 15 and a half minutes, I was really overwhelmed.
And I was really moved by that. And I was so grateful. for that and um Because it also just I guess it It signified so much in this moment. It kind of just all. converged for me in a career that I've been very lucky to have.
in this moment there in Venice. I have the man who I say in Mark Kerr his life changed mine. And then to my left, I have Benny Safti. Our writer and director, and I say, You changed my life. And he did.
Um And of course I have one of my best friends, Emily, and the whole thing was... Do you ever want to see what a T-Rex looks like crying? No, that was. That was you. That was me.
That was me. Yeah. It was special. Let's talk about the journey. getting to this spot.
Sure. How long have you been dreaming about playing a dramatic role? For years I've been dreaming and hoping Um My desire was to play not only a dramatic role, but something that I felt like I could really sink my teeth into. that we can get raw with and intense and rip myself open. You hear that term.
I just didn't want to do drama. I wanted to do something that really allowed me to do. That. for a few reasons.
Now I didn't realize this back then, but I realize it now after I've gone through the process. In 2019 is when I met Benny Safti. And that's when we talked about doing Smashing Machine.
So it's six years ago. And COVID hit. and everything shut down. And I had three film commitments that I had to complete, and we started them. We had to shut down because of COVID again in 2021.
So it took five years. to get through that process. And I connected back with Benny again, and we make this, and then we make the Smashing Machine.
So I had wanted to do this for some time. But also What I realize now. I didn't realize it then, is I was chasing something. for a lot of years. And what I was chasing was box office.
And what I realized is I was chasing box office because Of course it felt good.
Some movies do well and are really good.
Some movies uh uh Not that good. And that's okay. That's just the nature of what we do. But I was I wanted to do more and I wanted to test myself. I was also in a comfort zone.
And Y y your mind can at times Um Fight with your heart. Because you realize that your heart is its own boss. And as strong as a mind is. You can only tell the heart so much before the heart says, no, no, no. And for a long time.
My heart was saying, hey, there is more, you can do more. I'm not a big therapy guy. I've tried it a few times and I've had some great conversations with therapists. It's just not my lead foot.
So I unhealth unhealthily Carry a lot. I think like a lot of guys do. Mm-hmm. and I didn't have a place to put it. And I would have these conversations with Emily.
I became I'm best friends with for years now after we shot Jungle Cruise. And we would laugh and joke, and she would say, What are you afraid of? Like, you need a place to put all that stuff. Mm-hmm. You're all these things that I see as a human being and as an actor.
Go for it. And I was still nervous because I was in my comfort zone. And in thinking about it, the reason why I stayed in that comfort zone is because. I grew up a trailer park kid. And I lived in trailer parks and apartments.
As I was growing across the country, you know that. We went to a trailer. We went to a trailer, yeah. That's right. We went to where I used to live.
Outside of Memphis, outside of Memphis, downtown Bruno. And. I think when you come from that and you've been evicted before, and you know what it's like to live paycheck to paycheck, and then you're You come to Hollywood and you can make these films. That Make some money, you make some money, a lot of people make money and people get happy. Families watching the movies.
That's comfort. Sure. And you want to go to that. And I stayed there. And there's a part of me The brain Don't rock the boat.
Stay in this zone. Everyone's happy. Family's happy, you're paying the bills, you're not going back to having seven bucks. But the heart So Yeah, but you're not being fulfilled. Did you feel like that you weren't fully being you weren't being fulfilled.
100%. Because I wanted more. That's the thing. And it's cool to stay in your comfort zone, by the way, if that's what you want to do. But There was a big part of me that didn't want to stay in that comfort zone, that wanted more, that wanted to.
test and challenge and Work with filmmakers. work with Benny Aronofsky. Guys, Scorsese, you know, were developing those movies where. You want to get tested and challenged, and that's what I wanted.
So for a long time, I was holding back in that comfort zone. And then the heart. Luckily I I got a pretty strong ticker. The heart won out. The heart won out.
It's its own boss. Were there people telling you stay in your lane? You know, They weren't saying those exact words. But I could feel the vibe. And because staying in my lane.
means Staying in my lane and staying in my comfort zone means their comfort. Two. And their life isn't disrupted. by a weight. Dwayne, what are you getting ready to do?
Well is that Does that equate to box office? Does it equate to that? No, I'm not saying that a lot of people around me are. shallow. I just it's human nature.
Change. and any kind of disruption. It's scary. to people. But that's what you got to do.
And I know that in my world, I need people's opinions, those who I trust. I need their insight. But ultimately. I'm going to make the call. And this is the direction I'm going to go in.
So even if there were doubters, you said Hold my beer, I got this.
Well, I said, hold my tequila, I got this. Of course, tequila. Not a beer guy, but. There were There were doubters and there's ones who Of course, you always find that. And by the way, that's okay.
But I also feel like the doubt comes in the fear of change. Mm-hmm. And things are good. Why are you rocking the boat? Did you doubt yourself?
This is a big Raw. Roll. Did you have any doubts that you could do it? When it became real, Yes. Um I was already nervous and reticent to do it anyway because It is a big change, and it is a raw roll, and it is It's not your typical fair and drama.
It is a real human being who you're playing who lived a real life. of real ups and downs and addictions and he's lucky to be alive. and his highs were high, and his lows were low. And they all took place in the exposure to the world. And so once it became real.
I thought first it was this build-up of: I can do this, I can do this.
Now I know I can do this, and I want. Not I want I need people around me who can see it too Benny Safty, A twenty four, Emily Blunt. You can do it.
Okay. group. of who eventually became my family. And then it becomes real and you think, Wait a second. Can I do this?
Can I? Do I? I've never done it. never done anything. like this.
Wanted to, think that I could tap into something and Hopefully Deliver decent performance. But I was really nervous. And On day one, I remember Benny coming to me and Emily as well said, Are you scared? I went, Yes. You flat out said, Yes, I'm scared.
Absolutely. I am. And both of them said it's okay. That's a good thing. And we all got each other.
Here we go. And Benny, so smartly and astutely in that moment, said, Before we even roll, our first take, of the film. I want to tell you what the film is all about. This film is about human vulnerability. And that's what you're carrying now.
And that's what I'm carrying as a director. This is my first outing as a director. away from my brother. Josh Safti. Emily has never played a person this broken before?
So we're all vulnerable here. It's a good thing. You mentioned that Emily's been kind of pushing you along the way since the days of Jungle Cruise. What kind of advice did she give you, or help did she give you, about playing dramatic roles? Wow, we had so many talks.
I would say the number one thing is. We would consistently talk about. being real. and how important that was, and how important that was for not only these particular roles, not only in drama, but this particular role. Reminding ourselves of the work and the diligence that we did of getting to know Mark.
The woman who she plays, Dawn Staples, getting to know her very well, they became great friends. We're all great friends today. and how important that was in terms of its authenticity. To make sure that we keep it real and just always in the forefront of our minds, keep in mind that these are real people who live real lives. And that is a hell of a responsibility.
Because we're going to Because their in a way their legacy Up until now. was this documentary on HBO. that the movie is based off of. And the documentary was gripping and it was made in a certain way. And out of that documentary over 20 years ago, If if you're Mark and you're Don, You think Wow, that's how the world is going to remember me.
for that. where in Mark's case I fight for everything. And I lose it all. And in Don's case, I fight for the man I love, and I'm there to support him. and sacrifice my life and my dreams to support him and his.
Um At the end of that dock, That's it. We lose. But life goes on and there was so much more to tell. for them. Back to Emily and I, it was always, hey, let's keep that in mind and let's keep that in the forefront of our mind.
And We were using this analogy about standing on the shoreline. And every day, and looking at these waves that seem like, oh my god, these waves are so big, we can't swim these, we're gonna drown. It's okay. Grab each other's hands. We'll dive in the ocean.
and swim these crazy waves, and on the other side of those waves, Um Is Benny. Then he's Afty pulling us through, saying I got you.
Some of those waves, you talk about the Okay, first of all, there's fighting in the ring, there's fighting in the cage that is brutal, but. the really brutal fights are between you and Emily. At home. I mean, oh my goodness. What did they What did that take?
out of you. I feel like those kind of fights that we had, the fights that Emily and I had on set. in our house at home as a couple. There's parts of us that and I know it sounds crazy But now I understand. There's parts of us that have been left on that set that will never get back.
And The places You go. not only as actors, But also keeping it real. And one of Benny's Signature Artistic visions is always to. is always to make things as real as possible.
So for example, in the house that we lived in and that we shot in, that house was built from scratch. running water, electricity. and the reason why it was built from scratch on a sound stage And not like only two walls, and then the rest is a sound stage. It was an entire house built from scratch. their house that they lived in, And he did that so he could hide the cameras.
So you never saw a camera, Tracy. We never saw a camera. You never saw a lighting set up? What do you think that did for you? It immediately.
allowed us to be real. And allowed us to go in as a couple and allowed us to have these intense. Raw, no holds barred. Fights. That couples have.
that I heard growing up Mm as a kid and watching my own parents fight in that way. Brutal. And I'll never forget as a kid, and I remember sharing this with Benny and Emily and that. When you hear fights, as a kid. and it's your parents fighting.
It's actually, in a way, Um more traumatic than seeing them. Because as a little kid you're hearing things. It's probably why I come out here every morning and I close my eyes and I hear things. but you hear things and then it's left up to your imagination what's happening. when you hear things And you're hearing those kinds of things.
And so. When you get on set and there's no cameras, there's no lighting set up. and you go into those scenes. You you go elsewhere. And you feel that.
when you see the movie and you see these scenes. We got a great, one of the greatest compliments. Watch your feet, because I'm going to drop a name. Uh Um Benny is is close friends with Christopher Nolan, as is Emily. They both shot.
Oppenheimer with Christopher Nolan and Benny showed Christopher One of the scenes, one of which you and I are talking about, one of those intense scenes that go down between. Uh um a husband and a wife. who are codependent. And And there's addiction involved. And at the end of the scene, Christopher looked at Benny and said, Wow I feel like I shouldn't be watching this.
And to you, that says that was the greatest compliment we can get. Yeah. Nolan is the king. And it's that intimate. And it's that intimate, and it's that raw, and it's that.
oh my god like this doesn't feel like a movie and i think that speaks to It also speaks to Benny's, I think, prowess as a director and his real desire to shoot things that are real and make them feel real. Cinema Verite style truth. And that's what Benny is. Like Benny is very exact. And meticulous as an artist.
As a director, with what he wants to shoot, how he wants to shoot, and what he wants out of his actors. But then also, Tracy, he's is beautifully prowling and free. with eventually You look up and there's no cameras, and you wonder: is there another camera in this scene? No, it's not. But that's bending in and out and movement and.
So that was a really cool compliment, by the way, to get. Yeah, that's pretty good. That's really good. We'll have more from our Sunday morning extended interview. after this break.
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So, I want to talk about another scene that struck me: the hospital scene. Um I know Benny has you watch It's a Wonderful Life. And I've heard that Jimmy Stewart in some of those very vulnerable scenes. was drawing on the trauma that he experienced during World War II. Um And I'm wondering.
if you had a similar experience, that you were reliving past trauma in those scenes. I was. And Jimmy Stewart is one of my favorite actors. I never had the privilege of serving our country and It's Wonderful Life was one of my favorite movies, and this is why Benny and I went back to that movie a lot. And in that particular scene, there were times that I had to draw from trauma in my past.
And I've not. I've not O D'd on drugs in my life. I don't know what that's like. But I do know what it's like. to want to be anywhere else.
Then where you're at. and the embarrassment of that and the shame of that. And I went back to, I'll share this with you. I went back to, for that moment, I went back to what it's like being a 15-year-old kid and coming home. and being evicted.
And you come home and I'm with my mom, and we come home, and there's an eviction sign on our little, we lived in little efficiency in Hawaii. Um In my very young 15 years, as my mom is crying. And the conviction at that time says you have five days to get out. And if you don't get out, then you're going to be removed by the police. And she's crying.
I'm crying. I'm trying to hold it together. My dad's not there. My dad's in Nashville. where eventually I went to live with downtown Bruno.
And in that trailer park. which you I brought you to. And if I I wanted to be anywhere else. but right there. And I wanted to be anywhere else for my family, but right there in that moment.
And so the hospital scene that you talk about for Mark Kerr, he ODs, he almost dies, he's in that hospital, he has his girlfriend who loves him, who's committed her life to him, watching him. right from outside the room and his best friend. And I know in that moment, Mark wanted to be anywhere. But there. he was the greatest fighter in the world.
and now he is reduced. to this. And there's so much. There's pain, yes. physical, mental.
But as we've known, as we get older in life, we realize that the number one thing that is so. Crushing to us and debilitating is shame. And to be in that hospital bed in front of your loved ones. Shame. And for me, I felt like to be evicted and not know where we were going to live.
But shame. and to go have to go to Nashville and Then realize When I landed in Nashville, I thought I was going to live with my dad and then I had a stranger pick me up and then I was like, where am I going? Where am I going to live? It's like, oh, I'm going to take you to this motel.
So shame, right?
So that's where I went in that hospital scene. It's it's fine. because you've got to keep that kind of stuff really into perspective because You've got to be careful, I think, with how deep you go. uh in terms of the performance, what you tap into. Because the perspective I thought was, well, you know what?
Let me go there. I'll go to those places. And also, it was new for me. Like, I, again, not a therapy guy.
So I went into that scene thinking this scene is going to be cathartic for me either way. Wherever it goes, I don't know where it's going to go, but it's going to be cathartic, and I'm going to let it go. And The Yeah. The perspective I felt like, hey, just keep in mind. You're okay now.
Today you're good. Your babies are good. Things are good. Mark Kerr is alive. He's gonna see this.
He made it. He's an inspiration. Like people who are addicted, who... go to that almost finish line. But they pull back and they make it through, like he, it's okay.
Because if not, I feel like. You might get stuck there. Were you a little worried about that, getting stuck there? Yeah, because I just didn't know if I had the tools to come out of it. What do you think?
That's my friend. Every hour she makes a noise. Thinks I'm asking the wrong question. It's like you're doing a great. Good and good.
Um You said it felt like you were ripping yourself open. What do you think that did for you, Dwayne Johnson, ripping yourself open like that? It allowed me to realize that the thing that I was Scared of and the place that I was scared of going to rip myself open, to go to those places, tap into the trauma. We went through a lot of Stuff. as a little boy and as a teenager.
It's like eight years old, fifteen years old, ten years old. Then as you get older, You have babies, you go through a divorce, there's a lot happening. But those early years were defining years. And to stuff that was traumatic, so traumatic for me that it I don't want to. Not only do I know one.
Do I not want to go there? But for many years I thought, well, I don't want to do that in movies. It's Hollywood. It's just it's it's makeup, it's make believe. Want to feel good?
But the thing that I was running from, which was ripping myself open. is actually the thing that I needed the most. was to rip myself open. because it made me realize that the thing I love, which is acting, and telling these stories.
Now I see it in a different world. and in a different light and in a different way. Where, of course, I can, and I will go make the big fun movies: Jumanji, Moana. Those are fun. What can I say except you're welcome's fun?
But now There's a whole other side to filmmaking that I don't have to run from. I can rip myself open, and I have a place to put all this, and I have. A Benny. who says, yeah, not only Should we rip it open, but let's do it together? And so that was it.
That's the thing that I realized. The thing that I was running from was the thing that I actually needed. Was the thing that actually brought me peace because for a long time I was wrestling and struggling. the brain and heart. Hey.
Don't rock the boat, stay in this lane, make these kinds of movies. Heart saying. Yeah, but I don't know if The Characters you're playing are really commensurate with who you are. the many layers that you have. kind of surface Go for it.
And also, Tracy, I was tired of waking up thinking I didn't want to continue to wake up thinking, oh, but wait, what if? That's what you were doing. What if? What if? What if I tried these dramatic movies?
What would happen? What would happen? What if? But also, what if you. But what if there is more, and what if you can do more?
And then What we really don't want is God will. years from now if I didn't do it how Well what if I did do it? how fulfilling life could have been. And I didn't want to do that. I want to.
Go for it and do it. I want to talk a little bit about the physical transformation. Oh, yeah. Um So, before we get to the prosthetics, which is a whole thing. You're like, where did you go?
Yeah, exactly. Where did you go? Training wise, did you you had to change your body? I did. Yeah, believe it or not, it was.
You know, I I already came to the party a fairly big boy. Yeah. So When I talked to Benny Benny And very specifically, he said, P I don't know how to say this, but I need you to get bigger And he was searching for the words, and then he goes, puffier But just And I said, I think I know what you're saying. I said, give me 24 hours. And then I came back to him and I showed him these pictures of Mark Kerr.
And I said, I think what you're saying is. Yeah. Mark Kerr. had a very Specific. Very rare.
body. And when you look at pictures of Mark Kerr back in his prime, his silhouette. Tracy was just crazy. It was like Not human. And the way his body was shaped, and his shoulders, and his waist was this small, but his shoulders were this wide.
Tall and his legs were massive. He was one of those unicorn. Athletes who was also a wrestler and when you're a wrestler amateur wrestler You have a motor that doesn't stop. And that's how they're trained, and they have that level of conditioning. I had to.
I had to transform my body, which was A massive challenge for me. I'm a workout nut. I like working out. just being physical and sweating every morning, but This was different. This was I had to not just It's different if you put on size and put on muscle.
I've done that in the past for some roles. But this is the kind of muscle that you have to put on that has real fast twitch. fibers to it. Which is just a different kind of muscle, it's also a different kind of separation. from your shoulders to your arms.
It's all this stuff that I never really thought about. I heard about and I knew about, but until I watch it. And so I put on I put on Just over thirty pounds. And that was a lot. But the key was to put on the muscle to make sure that it was, and I know this sounds kind of weird and funny, but.
you got to put on the kind of quality muscle that will allow you still to be athletic. athletic. Yeah, because you had to still I've got to move. And Benny very early on said, I would love to not cut away. I would love and I know what that means.
That means that I would love to not use a stunt double. And I said, I I would I would love that. And I went to training camp. Worked with real MMA coaches and MMA fighters, and that in and of itself was a very eye-opening experience. I have been in the ring, obviously, in the pro wrestling ring, so I have a good sense of where the ropes are and how wide everything is and movement.
But MMA is a completely different world and it's a completely different animal for the men and the women who do it. I had to put on that weight, 30 pounds, still be agile, still move. I was Yeah, maybe 280, 290. That was a lot. It's a lot.
And to still be fast. And to be fast and to be agile and still to be quick. And I trained a lot with Mark Kerr. who helped me with my movements. Um making sure that I was pliable and flexible and So there was a lot of weight.
to carry. for that amount of time for a good Three, three, four months of. filming. And then on top of it, you had prosthetics. Yes.
That took a couple hours to put on. It's about three to four hours every day. But I got to tell you, Tracy, the physical transformation was one thing. And that was a whole learning experience. And it also forces you to really be even more attuned with your body.
And how am I feeling in the morning? How am I feeling at night? Am I sleeping well? Like all this stuff you have to start thinking about when you put on that amount of weight, because usually, as an athlete, for Mark Kerr, for example, for him to get to the physical place that he got to in his prime, that took years. I had maybe Six months?
Seven months.
So That prosthetic transformation That was Everything. Why everything? because I became a new person. I feel like with the added weight physically, I would look in the mirror and think, well, that's still me. I could see me, I see my face and I'm a lot bigger.
Um But the prosthetic Transformation was the thing that allowed me to really transform and become Mark Kerr. And I sat there every morning. for three to four hours, and I would be on my phone. working, reading lines, and I'd look up and a little bit would change. Look down.
10, 15, 20 minutes, look up again, a little bit more would change. Look down again. And that happened before you know it, three, four hours later, I would look up and I would be completely different, gone. elsewhere and that immediately allowed me to be mark and it and it it also just helped my my speech or closely with a dialect coach. Liz Himmelstein, who is amazing.
She was Emily's dialect coach in Oppenheimer. The Toledo, Ohio. Accent. It's very specific. And People in Ohio, you know what I'm talking about.
but also Mark Kerr. He was this walking contradiction he is this walking contradiction of This of a of a man who's a giant. But he's so soft and he's so tender and he's so soft spoken And he speaks as Liz and I talked about very early. He's not a man And I mean this respectfully, who speaks from the ground up. A lot of the fighters and men who are in these physical sports and activities speak from the ground up.
There's that. What speaks from here? It's very soft. Hi, how are you? It's good to meet you.
Yeah. I love what you're wearing, Tracy. Like he's that soft and you have to kind of lean in. And you think, God, this man, you're the most lethal man. In the planet, which I guess maybe.
makes it even more scary. Right, the soft-spokenness.
Soft-spoken and genuine. True, gentle giant. Gentle giant. What did it do for you to disappear into this other person? Two things.
That's a great question. It allowed for me, number one, to completely disappear, which also allowed me to realize: like, oh, I like this. Because for my entire career, I couldn't. not only could I not disappear in films, because Well, I could, I just never tried it, but you know, usually it's like I'm as advertised. This guy is the same guy on screen.
So when I did transform though, Day one. I was in love. with this idea of transforming into someone else. and I don't see myself. And I liked it.
I really, really did. What do you think that was? Just not being. Dwayne Johnson for a while. Yes, yes, that's what it is.
And I gotta be careful with that 'cause it's like You want to strike the little violins like, oh, you know, I can't go anywhere. You know, I can't go to a mall, but no, no, no. It just it allowed for a freedom, Tracy, that I thought. Thought, oh, this is Beautiful, it's amazing. When I came on set, Emily will tell the story.
no one recognized me. They didn't know I was me. And the C's kind of parted, everyone got quiet. I kind of walked on set, and it was amazing. You know what the other thing is that I really realize that I think you'll find interesting, and people watching, I think will find this interesting.
Becoming Mark Kerr. really allowed me to become even more empathetic. Just to the world. Because Whoa, we Maybe. Like I try to be empathetic.
I try to Not be too judgy. Wait and see, there might be context of missing out of something, or I don't know what that person is going through. That was a big thing that I realized is that I was talking to Benny about that. Like, hey, you don't. You never know what people are going through.
They could seem like they have it together, especially a guy like Mark Kerr. He's on top of the world. He's a world champion. He's the greatest fighter on the planet. And he looks like he's capable.
But He's just dying on the inside.
So Becoming Mark just allowed me to become more Just Even more empathetic, too. You just never know. what people are going through. There's the most beautiful butterfly that just went by, this blue butterfly. You know what I learned about butterflies, by the way?
I don't know if you know this, but. I I re I went to uh we went to a butterfly Zoo, I don't know what they're called. Sanctuary. Sanctuary. Thank you.
I took the girls there. And we loved it. And then I realized the thing that rocked me is that When you see a butterfly, It has approximately two weeks of life. That's it. And I was like the big Weird dad?
At the sanctuary, because I'm like, I'm so sorry, I know you want to continue the tour, but can you tell me that again? All these butterflies only have two weeks, so you're like, Yeah. That's their lifespan is two weeks, which made me think, again, empathy. Empathy, and also going back to this story. You only have so much time on this earth.
Use it. Wisely. Right? There's a great quote that I heard. And It means even more now that I filmed Smash and Machine and I can apply it.
I did apply it to Smash and Machine. And this idea that at the end of the film without any spoilers.
Sometimes winning becomes the enemy. And the thing you want most Sometimes it's a thing you never get. And you think it's all over? And the quote is from Louis Lemour, who is an American novelist. And he says there's going to come a time where you believe that everything is finished.
And that's where it begins. And so I think, Tracy, I know this sounds funny, but I think And that sounds so sappy, but I think the applause at the end. of Smashing Machine in Venice at the Venice Film Festival was the Uh Was my gut. my reaction to that where I got emotional and big T Rex was crying over here, but it it was probably my gut telling me Um It's just the beginning. And you stepped out and now you're here and Might be just the beginning.
I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening. And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday morning on the free Odyssey app. or wherever you get your podcasts. Forgot the file name, folder name, or where you saved it?
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