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Plus, get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes. This is Jane Pauley. You might know him as a computer hacker in the hit series Mr. Robot, or maybe as rock star Freddie Mercury in the movie Bohemian Rhapsody.
Now, with Sunday Morning's Seth Doan, meet the real Oscar-winning actor, Rami Malek. How hard did you have to work in the early days in being noticed in Hollywood trying to get those first jobs? Pretty darn hard. I banged down every door.
I could hear a lot of no's. I got used to hearing rejection quite often. Sometimes it was difficult to get up and step out into the world again and say I can do this and not give up. What were you doing? How were you trying to get people to notice you? I was stuffing manila envelopes with my headshot and resume and sending them to every agent, every studio, every art school, film school, anybody who was producing, directing, anything.
I did that for quite some time to no avail. There was one moment where I got a call from a casting director, Mara Casey, and she said we'd love to see Rami Malek for this role and we'd like to speak with his agent. I said speaking. He said is he SAG, Screen Actors Guild?
No, not yet, but I'm sure we can get him there. This is his agent? I said yes. Who are you? I said his agent. What's your name?
Rami Malek. She laughed. She was laughing the whole way through and she said all right kid, listen, when you get an agent you can call me. We'll get you back in. I said hey, but we're already having this conversation. I got a few laughs out of you. Maybe you could just let me in the door and see what happens. She took a beat and she said all right, can you make it in 20 minutes?
I said yeah, yeah. Where are you? I just raced over there as quickly as I could. What were you doing to pay the bills at the time? What wasn't I doing? I was catering. I was delivering pizzas. I was working at restaurants. I was a busboy. I was told I made a very inferior cappuccino once and got fired from that. Maybe I did that on purpose.
I don't know. Anything to pay the bills. But you charm this casting director and you get cast in Gilmore Girls and that's one of the first real jobs. That was one of the first real jobs. You would think that the next one would come right away but it was still that hustle of waiting and waiting, no callbacks, no auditions. So for me it was quite a slow burn and I think that helped me develop the strength to know that something would always be coming and to choose wisely.
And there were roles that were offered because of My Heritage playing a terrorist and that was something I thought I'll be pigeonholed and that's not the way I want to represent my culture. So that would be the easy thing to do is to take those. That would pay the bills to a degree but I thought wait, just keep pushing.
You can do this. Was there a point in your career where you made that choice? You played in 24, the Kiefer Sutherland TV show. I thought I was meticulous.
You're more meticulous than anybody. You played a character who blew himself up in that. Yeah, I think that was the last one.
I said enough is enough there. It was just too divisive and it would create an impression of a certain group of people who would be pigeonholed and I wouldn't want to be responsible for that. I'd rather see people identify with a certain everyman, the struggles of outsiders, outcasts, everyday human beings who can go on to do extraordinary things.
We see them every day, every single day. They're the ones that resonate with me the most. What makes you choose a certain role at this point?
Do you have something that guides you? I got such a great break working with Steven Spielberg and Tom Hanks on the Pacific and they put us through this military boot camp. The audition process was so rigorous.
They told us to get down to 6% body fat and I thought if this is one just tiny minuscule percentage of what those men might have felt. It was all inspiring to me and I thought if you could begin to tell stories like that that could resonate with so many people. I think there's heroism in so many of the characters. I gravitate to but they also lend themselves to just being ordinary people. I love ordinary people doing extraordinary things. What made you want to do The Amateur? I remember getting a call right after Bohemian Rhapsody and the success of that from the studio and they said what type of film would you want to do next and I said believe it or not an action film.
Why? Because I thought there was a group of people who were underrepresented in that genre. People who might not be acknowledged or as the film points out quite underestimated. To see oneself reflected as heroic in that capacity is something I don't think we've seen before. I really don't.
Not for a long time. I love going for the big splashy entertainment and this is very splashy but it comes from a guy who is so unexpected doing extraordinary things. Your character is the unlikely hero. It has echoes of Bourne Identity and Mission Impossible in these but is markedly different in who is the protagonist. That's a huge compliment. I remember being taken by storm watching Bourne Identity and what a phenomenal actor Damon is in that role but that was a subversion of that genre and I thought what if we could do that in a different way from this character's point of view who is the last person you would expect to go take on the people who stole essentially the love of his life that made him whole and if he could persevere and find some steely resilience inside of himself to do what no one could ever expect possible out of him maybe that would resonate with people all around the world.
I hope it does. Were there things in the Charlie Heller character that you learned from someone, picked from someone? I think it's the perseverance and resilience of the human spirit. I can look at my mom and think about her coming to the US and not speaking a word of English and taking three buses to get to work with having a daughter at home and two baby boys in her belly as she was getting from job to job to make a living for us and there's a strength in that and a resilience and I saw heroism in that. I saw love in that. And what I see with Charlie is when he loses his soulmate, someone who he would do anything for.
There is something extraordinary about the power in that when someone could easily bury their head in the sand. Why did you want to play that type of character? I think I gravitate to these characters who are profoundly alienated, seen as outcasts, different. Is that because there's something personal for you?
You're going for it. I don't know who hasn't felt different in their life, who hasn't felt like an outsider, but perhaps yes. My origin story for lack of a better word is as a first generation American and we definitely were seen as different to a degree and fitting in was something I worked hard on and never seemed to perfectly adjust to. Your parents went to the U.S. in 1978 from Egypt, Coptic Christians. You spoke Arabic at home. But it seems you also had a very Southern California side of life too.
To a degree, yeah. We grew up in the San Fernando Valley. I think for the most part we truly believed for so many years that that's the only part of Los Angeles that existed. We weren't sheltered so much as I think my parents were trying to protect us from the elements that they perceived as a little bit too liberal. And yeah, wanted to create a very safe, structured place for us that perhaps allowed my imagination to flourish in a way. You were what, in your room imagining things, playing games? Yeah, I was coming up with characters alone and to the point where I thought something very unusual is going on out there and you have to find a way to utilize that or it might take over in a negative way somehow. Was acting a natural jump?
How did that happen? No, my father wanted to, my father instilled this idea in myself and my siblings that we came to this country so that you could do something special, to be somebody special. But what he really, I think, wanted me to do was to be a politician so I went into a debate class and I wasn't very good at debating but I had a substitute teacher who came in and said there's actually this element of class that you could do that's a dramatic interpretation or a humorous interpretation of a play. And he handed me one and I dug in and I ended up performing it for him within a week and he said, you memorized it? I said, yeah, yeah, just something clicked and he said, I'd like to enter you into this competition. And soon after it was the first thing that I invited my parents to come see and I remember my mom and dad sitting in the audience and my father being a stoic Middle Eastern man, never showing any emotion. I could see a tear slowly drop from his face and I thought, wow, if I could have that effect on him, what could I do with the rest of the world? So that was it, that's what triggered the interest in acting? I think it was the potential to move people, to relate to them, to share something. You're known for your preparedness, you're known for studying the roles.
I don't think you could play a character like Freddie Mercury without doing copious amounts of homework. Watching that man over and over was something that I took pure joy in as well, so that's a luxury. When you get to invest so much time in someone that means the world to so many people, it doesn't feel like work. It feels like you're just getting to embrace and imbue yourself with someone's essence over and over. Someone could call that research, I called it pure joy. How is it portraying a real person compared to someone who, a character you create? It's an excellent question. I think you have to mix it up, you can't have a career of just biopics, right?
Is there one that you prefer or think you're better at or like more? No, it depends on the context of this. Doing Oppenheimer with Christopher Nolan, I came in and played a real character. There's an expectation because they lived on this planet.
You have to honor them to a degree in a way that when you're creating a character there is more of a creative license, I suppose. There were things about Freddie that I could only assume because of the nature of his privacy that was enjoyable, but also scary because you wanted to honor him and get it right. You collect all of the facts in order to allow yourself to possibly tell a story about him that you have tethered yourself to and is hopefully as close as you can be because there is a relationship that possibly you've created through some sort of empathy for that person. We'll have more from our Sunday morning extended interview after this break. I've been counted out, dismissed, passed over, told I'd never be a golfer with just one arm. But the only thing that feels better than proving people wrong is out driving them. I'm 14 year old golfer Tommy Morrissey and I want to be remembered for my ability. As a champion partner of the Masters, Bank of America supports everyone determined to find out what's possible in golf and in life. What would you like the power to do?
Bank of America, Bank of America and a member of DRC, copyright twenty twenty five Bank of America Corporation, all rights reserved. I've never felt like this before. It's like you just get me. I feel like my true self with you. Does that sound crazy? And it doesn't hurt that you're gorgeous.
OK, that's it. I'm taking you home with me. I mean, you can't find shoes this good just anywhere.
Find a shoe for every you from brands you love, like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas and more at your DSW store or DSW dot com. Winning an Oscar obviously opens so many doors, creates so many opportunities. What challenges are there? Does it set expectations that you feel then you've got to meet?
It doesn't actually. I've never really set any lofty expectations for myself. I wanted to be just a working actor.
That's all I I aspire to do. I think that's a success in and of itself, to have a stable working life as an actor. So I would hope that it would open doors, but I never had any expectations. Some of it seems hard to believe, though. I would think that once you win an Oscar, you must think, oh, my gosh, I've got to keep doing this at this level. I guess there's a level of a standard you want to hold yourself to.
But that would be that would be compromising because. You can look at actors who have multiple Oscars and you're going to keep searching for the next one or the next one. I mean, how much is good enough? I'm pretty satisfied with what I've accomplished. Yeah, I feel really humbled by that moment, very proud of that moment. It was extraordinary. And if anything, if anything else comes of it that can can top that would be flabbergasted.
But I'm open to it. In that acceptance speech, you wish that your dad you say that you wish your dad could be there. You you thank your mom. Your relationship with your parents is is clear in that acceptance speech, which seems to be clear.
Well, I think they sacrificed so much to leave their country, to come to the U.S. and just for the opportunity that their kids could flourish. I appreciate that that courage, that conviction, that strength, that humility to to do something for someone else. I don't think there's anything greater than that. Do you still get advice from your mom? Yeah.
Oh, yeah. That'll never stop. That's an onslaught of advice. What did she say?
Oh, I think the Brits say it very well. Keep calm and carry on. How about your brother? You have a twin brother. How did having a twin affect life growing up? It was it was pretty fascinating because he was much more of the gregarious individual between the two of us. And I was quite shy. I guess I guess that was me busy creating characters alone in a room by myself where he was out, you know, being more of more of a bright, shining star, I suppose. It's funny to hear you say this. You would think you'd be the one who'd be the gregarious one out. Well, no, we would star. Yeah.
Yeah, no. But maybe I learned a lot from him. So I have a lot a lot to thank him for.
But he he is an extraordinary human. He's a he's a schoolteacher and has devoted his life to that. And my sister's a doctor. I think the parents did all right. The parents did all right. Though they didn't love the idea that you wanted to be an actor at first. No, I think making that transition to the States was certain cultures expect lawyer, doctor.
You know, we've heard this over and over. There is an expectation to do those things that are stable and are proven, so to speak. And I think a work in the life of any arts is is probably the most unstable thing you could set out to do. You don't still feel like an outsider, an outcast, do you? It's an interesting way of questioning that. I don't know. There's there's an unusual aspect to all of us.
Do I? I don't know how anyone ever feels truly integrated into the world and settled. Maybe maybe there's there are some gurus out there that feel quite naturally at peace and and have have found a way to acknowledge exactly who they are. I don't know exactly where I'll be in 10 years. I don't know who I'll be.
I don't know. I don't know that I'd ever want to not feel like an outsider. Why? I like eccentricity. I like feeling unique. I like feeling different. Are you unique, different, eccentric in your own personal life, off screen?
I would hope so. How does that manifest itself? Come on. Ask anybody who's ever met me. I'm asking you. I don't know. I don't know how I could explain it.
Is there something you do at home or something that you. I think. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's the artsy fartsy thing to say, but yeah, I like to paint and I like to write poetry. I like the things of that nature. Yeah. I don't think anything is worthy of being placed on a wall or in a library. But for me, there there's eccentric things that I, I enjoy doing that make.
Yeah, I guess have to exhaust themselves from my interior so that they can be dispelled in a way if there's not a camera or a stage around. Your breakout role was Elliot in Mr. Robot. What was it about that role you think you connected with that audiences connected with? What was it about? I think it's that sense of someone profoundly alienated who is suffering from grief, who is trying to overcome an extraordinary amount of pain and some drug usage was involved in someone suffering from a dissociative disorder, who could, despite all of that, have this inclination to go on and save the world. As he says, he really thinks he can save the world. I think it was just a subversion of of what we see as heroism that seems to be a theme in what we're talking about, particularly in that you have this gaze, you have this ability to connect with your eyes.
So do you. But it really stands out in Mr. Robot, I think, and in other roles.
I don't know. Something about the camera that can read right inside your soul and there's no lying to that camera. So I think Elliot was a character that I felt quite deeply inside of myself through, again, the research I had done, the work I had done. Felt deeply because you did so much research or because it affected you personally in some way? The two.
It affected me personally. There were times in a few roles where I won't say I borderlined on method acting. I may be more of a chameleonic grace, I would say. But going to a place where I could really delve into the inner workings, perhaps, and take that with me for far too long.
Can you give me an example, specifically? I would spend quite a large amount of time in solitude prepping for roles, like snafu in the Pacific and going home and imagining what it would be like to sit in a foxhole for hours and hours and hours. So you'll just sit in your house for hours and hours and not talk to someone?
How does that play out? I did when I was younger to a degree which I thought could become quite damaging at some point. I learned as I evolved that I didn't have to go to the nth degree to be able to create a character that was as authentic. There's just something when you're younger, you feel like you have to give it every ounce of you. And it's not that I don't anymore. I just don't know that I have to suffer so much to get there. It's faster to access now, the emotion or the depth or the portrayal. You're better at doing it.
Yeah, I suppose it's a growth. I don't know, maybe there was some pleasure I took in doing all of that work that meant I had proven something, I had done something, I had accomplished something. It was worth being in front of Hanks and Spielberg and Paul Thomas Anderson and Spike Lee.
That's a lot of name dropping, watch your feet. To just walk in there with that sense of confidence because it is terrifying going into those places. You want to feel like you've done everything absolutely possible and putting yourself through a sense of mental trauma for what these people have gone through. If you are digging so deep as to deal with the psychological trauma of so many characters that I've played, it could have some effect on you. At least my psychiatrist tells me that. Do you have a psychiatrist? I think everybody does a bit of therapy here and there. Do parts that you play help you resolve things or do parts that you play dig you deeper into things to be resolved?
It's a great question because I'm constantly wondering about other actors if it's some type of cathartic endeavor for them to be going through something in front of another actor and expelling some part of themselves. I don't think that would be very helpful for me psychologically. I prefer to find ways to separate my personal experiences from work. But you can't help but have your life influence what you do in terms of storytelling. I wouldn't want to be so robotic as to not bring any ounce of my life experience. But am I healing myself through it?
I hope not. We were backstage with you after your performance at the Old Vic. One woman said, you make Egyptians proud or something along those lines. Do you hear that when you're surrounded by so many people? How could you not? I do. Yes, simply I do. I love connecting with people.
It's been the trickiest part of the fame that has come my way. Sometimes you have to walk down the street and keep your head down and not be able to acknowledge people or have the conversations that you could have. So you want to have those conversations?
Oh, I'm desperate for them. So this is kind of an act when you put on a hat? It's not an act, it's a survival mechanism. Sometimes you have to get from point A to point B. But there are other times where you want to share most of the time. I love sharing and communicating and learning.
How else would you want to go through life? Inside you, you wish you could stop and talk to these people who are recognizing you in some cases. I still can.
I still can. At the height of Bohemian, it was pretty wild. How did you deal with that fame at that point? That was life changing, I imagine, that degree of recognizability of fame.
It was a very slow burn. The Marine Corps element of the Pacific, people would start to recognize that. Then Mr. Robot, people would start to recognize that character as someone they connected with.
In between those two roles and other roles in between. Kids still come up to me from playing the Pharaoh in the Night at the Museum movies. I've adapted to it slowly, but I think the aggressive peak of what happened with Bohemian Rhapsody was it was quite a lot to absorb.
I can't say that it wasn't a bit anxiety inducing. Because there's a level of expectation and adoration and people are, I think, compelled to want a tangible connection to you. That is hard to offer to so many people who appreciate that human being and appreciate the film. But as time and space has allowed some distance from that, it's allowed for more conversation and more appreciation between myself and the world.
Because that human being meant so much to so many people still does. It's an achievement and accomplishment and a source of pride that I will always cherish. And if other people want to share that with me, they should.
And they can. And I'm happy to. How do you now wrestle with fame and how you balance being recognized for doing what you do? Much more calm about it. It doesn't shake me as much. But it seems you try to keep your relationship, for instance, for the most part, to yourself or relationships. Yeah, this is probably the most I talk about my family. I'm concerned for everyone's privacy.
It's not my place to talk about anybody else. I think you're interviewing me and I understand that comes with a level of wanting some insight into a personal world. Some anonymity, whatever I can latch onto that still exists.
I hope I can take that, hold onto it for as long as humanly possible. At least a touch. At least a touch. Because? Because I have a memoir to write at some point.
I think there is still something. It may be an antiquated thought, but the less people know about you, I think the more unique a performance you can deliver in terms of cinema or on stage or in any capacity. I think there's less of an attachment from an audience to who that person really is and what you know about them.
You can really see them as two disparate human beings. That's probably the diplomatic way of using it to my advantage. I grew up being a very private person. My household was very private. We weren't kids that were allowed to have sleepovers. I remember my dad saying, here I am now going into the private side. I remember my dad saying, wait, you want another kid to come sleep over at our house? But you have your own bed. I would have killed for my own bed as a kid. So there is that element that's still ingrained in me.
I think everyone desires some sense of privacy. And when that starts to dissipate, you latch onto what's left of it. What made you want to be in this play in London? It is that iconic theater, the Old Vic. If there was any place I wanted to do a play, it would be there. And to be on that hallowed stage is an extraordinary moment. I've afforded that opportunity.
How could you pass it up? I also just wanted to share with an audience. What would be worthy of an audience paying the price of admission to seeing something unique and special that I would want to return to day in and day out? And it proved to be just that. How much do you care about what critics say at this point? That production was liked by some and not liked by some. How much do you care about what critics write? I didn't know that, but I guess not much because I don't read them.
What did Daniel Craig say on Bond? He said, if you believe the good ones, you've got to believe the bad ones. So you don't read? I love journalism.
I read the New York Times top to bottom every day. So I'll read reviews of things. But not of things you're in? I try not to. I'm not looking to others for a sense of what my capability or capacity is as an actor. I know not everything's going to be perfect or liked by every critic.
But if people are entertained and they stand up and applaud as they did last night, then does it really matter what the critics say? I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening. And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday Morning on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. The most original musical ever is now streaming on Paramount Plus.
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