Bernie Sanders, Rami Malek, Food Safety

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Visit Shopify.com to upgrade your selling today. Good morning, I'm Jane Pauley, and this is Sunday Morning. Bernie Sanders, Senator from Vermont, former presidential candidate and populist firebrand, is once again drawing big crowds at rallies around the country. He's still talking about familiar issues like income inequality, affordable housing, and Medicare for all. But he's also channeling much of his fury directly at the current administration. This morning, Robert Costa will fill us in on why so many continue to feel the Bern. At 83, Bernie Sanders is back, holding big rallies to take on President Trump and the wealthy. When we talk about America as a democracy, I think we should rephrase it, call it a pseudo-democracy.

And it's not just Musk and the Republicans, it's billionaires in the Democratic Party as well. That's a serious thing to say as a U.S. Senator, a pseudo-democracy.

Senator Bernie Sanders ahead on Sunday morning. With David Pogue this morning, we get an inside look at the complex, loophole-filled world of food safety regulations. Boar's Head is recalling nine types of deli meats. A big onion recall linked to the deadly E. coli outbreak.

It's 2025. Why do we still get foodborne illness outbreaks? You can't inspect food enough to make it safe. That's just one of the axiomatic truths of food safety. We're farming outdoors and so we control as much of the ecosystem as we can.

Coming up on Sunday morning, why we still get sick and what's being done about it. Actor Rami Malek is famous for playing a variety of characters in his Oscar-winning career. Now for the first time, he's adding action hero to the list. Seth Doan has our Sunday profile. He relishes the research involved with portraying a music legend, Bond villain, or protagonist of a Greek tragedy.

Do you have something that guides you? I think there's heroism in so many of the characters. I gravitate to.

I love ordinary people doing extraordinary things. So why is this spy thriller next? We catch up with Rami Malek later this Sunday morning. Holly Williams this morning reports from Greenland, the sparsely populated island President Trump has turned into an unlikely geopolitical hotspot.

Plus Tracy Smith with a glimpse of Smash, the cult TV hit turned Broadway musical about the making of, well, a Broadway musical. Along with an interview with chef Jose Andres and more on this first Sunday morning of a new month, April 6th, 2025, and we'll be back after this. He is perhaps the best known voice for descent in Washington these days. And in recent weeks, no one's been drawing crowds everywhere he goes, like Senator Bernie Sanders on this weekend of protests across the country.

From Maine to California to Washington DC, the Vermont Independent is talking with our Robert Costa. Well, this country today faces an unprecedented level of danger, something that I've never seen in my lifetime. We are a nation that is moving rapidly toward oligarchy, which means that we have a government run by the billionaire class for the billionaire class. You've had this consistent message for a long time. Is there more urgency now in this moment?

I think there is. And in many ways, I suppose you can thank Elon Musk and Trump for that. Ever since President Trump took office, surrounded by some of the richest men in the world, Senator Bernie Sanders has been sounding the alarm. These guys already have billions, tens of billions, hundreds of billions.

How much money do you need? And the 83-year-old's rallying cry is breaking through as thousands pack his events. These gatherings, along with other protests, are the latest flashpoints for an emerging Trump opposition. What do you see when you're up on stage at these rallies?

I think I'm seeing fear and I'm seeing anger. 60 percent of our people are living paycheck to paycheck. Media doesn't talk about it. We don't talk about it enough here in Congress.

It's incredible to me. What makes the no-nonsense lawmaker from Vermont different from Democrats is that he is not one of them. You need a mixed economy.

I think you could start off with a Scandinavian model. Sanders ran high-profile races for the Democratic nomination in 2016 and 2020, but he is a registered independent. Right now, he sees not merely a political battle, but a moral and constitutional crisis. Some Republicans chuckle when they see President Trump talk about pursuing a more democratic or pursuing a third term.

Are you laughing when you hear it? No, I don't. The idea of a third term, why not? They don't believe in the rule of law. They don't believe in the Constitution.

So, yeah, I would take that seriously. Something El Sanders takes seriously, the sprawling influence of Elon Musk, who has overhauled the federal workforce. One of the other concerns when I talk about oligarchy, Bob, it's not just massive income and wealth inequality. It's not just the power of the billionaire class. These guys, led by Musk, and as a result of this disastrous Citizens United Supreme Court decision, have now allowed billionaires, essentially, to own our political process. So I think when we talk about America as a democracy, I think we should rephrase it, call it a pseudo-democracy. And it's not just Musk and the Republicans. It's billionaires in the Democratic Party as well. That's a serious thing to say as a U.S. senator, a pseudo-democracy. Not a full democracy. You get one vote and Elon Musk can spend $270 million to help elect Trump.

Does that sound like a democracy to you? And you're looking at about 15 different firms? Sanders also objects to an executive order, pressuring major law firms whose clients are seen as hostile to Trump. Some firms have reached financial agreements with the administration. What do you make of the law firms cutting deals?

Absolute cowardice. Some of them seem pretty eager to cut a deal. Because for them, you know, they're zillion dollar law firms and money, money, money. So they're going to sell out their souls to Donald Trump in order to continue to be able to make money here in Washington.

What's the cost to the country when that sort of thing happens? It is indescribable. The senator's mission, at a time when most his age are retired, can be traced back to his Brooklyn roots. I remember watching your brother in 2016 in Philadelphia, nominate you and speak of your parents.

They love the New Deal of Franklin Roosevelt, and we'll be especially proud that Bernard is renewing that mission. It is with enormous pride that I cast my vote for Bernie Sanders. My politics are influenced by two aspects of my life. Number one, I grew up in a working class family. We were never poor. My father worked all the time. Just never had any money. It was paycheck to paycheck. And the other one is, you know, being Jewish, remembering what the Holocaust was about and seeing people in my neighborhood having tattoos, numbers on their arm from concentration camps.

So the kind of racism and the hatred for whatever reason that people are against Jews or blacks or Latinos, whatever, that's also stayed with me. Sanders' prominence was a long time coming. He labored on the fringes of state politics, then on the fringes of Congress.

OK, thank you all very, very much. The sparsely covered news conference for his first presidential bid, launched 10 years ago this month, was a portrait of a long shot. Did you think 10 years later you'd still be out here doing these rallies with this message grinding away?

I didn't think I would be doing this a year ago. No, but you have to do what you have to do. Not every Democrat agrees with your approach. James Carville, for example, says Democrats should roll over and play dead, have a strategic political retreat. And that is why the rich have gotten richer in the last 30 or 40 years. 60% of our people live in paycheck to paycheck. Healthcare system has fallen apart. Our childcare system is dysfunctional.

That's what playing dead is about. I'm afraid the Democrats have played dead for a long time. You're speaking to working people, but if you could look the Democratic leadership in the House and Senate in the eye and tell them one thing. I meet with them every day. I know you don't shy away, but what could you tell them now about what to hear from your rallies, your events? That's not quite the question. What is the question then?

What do they need to know? Why are they held in so low esteem? Why has the working class of this country largely turned away from them? And what do you have to do to recapture that working class? Do you think working people are voting for Trump because he wants to give massive tax breaks to billionaires that cut social security in America?

I don't think so. It's because people say, I am hurting. Democratic Party has talked a good game for years. They haven't done anything. So I think what the Democratic Party has to make a fundamental decision, and I'm not sure that they will make the right decision. Which side are they on? Are they continuing to hustle large campaign contributions from very, very wealthy people? Or do they stand with the working class? For Bernie Sanders, the activism, the agitation, the relentless crusade, it has long been about trying to reach the White House.

It is also who he is. You're 83 years old. A lot of people go into these rallies, they tell us they want you to think about 2028.

A little bit old to be worrying about those things, but I'm happy being a U.S. Senator from Vermont. And in the arena. And in the arena. You like being in the fight. There are many other things that I would prefer to be doing.

That's the one thing I'd fact check you on a little bit. Oh, I enjoy the rallies. And you enjoy the political fight, the fight with working people? If your question is, do I get inspired by talking and meeting with people all over the country deeply? That is what keeps me going. In other words, life exists outside of Capitol Hill.

They shop, you save. Go to selectquote.com slash Spotify pod today to get started. What's up, Hoop fans? I'm Ashley Nicole Moss, and I'm bringing you Triple Threat, your weekly courtside pass to the most interesting moments and conversations in the NBA. From clutch performances to the stories shaping the game on and off the court, Triple Threat has you covered with it all. Culture, drama and social media buzz, we're locked in just like you're locked in. Watch weekly on CBS Sports Network at 1 p.m. Eastern or on the CBS Sports YouTube channel as we break it all down fast and fresh.

This is Triple Threat, where basketball meets culture. To David Pogue, who this morning is putting our food safety system under the microscope. In 1993, it was jack-in-the-box hamburgers. Four people died.

Health officials expect to see more young victims. In 1998, it was hot dogs. Fourteen people died. In 2006, it was bagged spinach. E. coli linked to tainted spinach. 2008, peanuts. 2018, romaine lettuce. Last year, Boar's Head. Boar's Head is recalling nine types of spinach. He's recalling nine types of deli meats. Every year, some of the food that's supposed to keep us healthy winds up killing people.

What's going on? I mean, I hate to just keep saying it's complicated, but it's complicated. You know, what causes problems and what needs to be done to fix them. Mike Taylor has spent his entire career trying to make food safer. I've led the food safety programs at both FDA and USDA. What's some context for these food-borne illness outbreaks? Well, it's this familiar litany of 3,000 deaths annually and 48 million illnesses.

But it's just hard to measure and quantify. Fifteen federal agencies plus state agencies oversee our food system. The USDA regulates meat, poultry, eggs, and weirdly, catfish. The FDA covers about everything else. In 2011, Mike Taylor helped pass the Food Safety Modernization Act, which tries to prevent outbreaks before they happen.

Congress and the administration simply haven't funded the implementation fully. But it was clearly a big step forward. The bacteria that make us sick mostly come from beef, poultry, and produce. It used to be, jack-in-the-box, that beef was something we worried about. When that happened, we made a decision to simply declare that no longer would that particular kind of E. coli be lawful in ground beef. And that had a big effect because the meat industry collaborated among themselves, came up with technologies to really minimize that risk. But when the USDA proposed a similar regulation for chicken, industry lobbyists said it would be too expensive. The trade associations, the lobby showed up and essentially stonewalled the USDA going forward with this. According to the USDA, 7 percent of all raw chicken parts and 27 percent of all ground chicken are contaminated with salmonella.

And there's no law against shipping it that way. But now we come to the big one, produce. Almost half of all foodborne illnesses come from fruits and vegetables, because after all, we don't cook most of it before eating. The 2006 spinach outbreak was a wake-up call for the farming industry. September of 2006, FDA said, do not eat spinach, right? And that literally affected every grower, provider of spinach in the country. So California said, we need to do something from a food safety standpoint. And that's how the leafy greens marketing agreement was born. A coalition of farmers overseen by the California Department of Food and Agriculture, who've agreed to adopt food safety protocols sooner and more stringent than the government's. 94 percent of the nation's leafy greens are covered by this agreement.

Tim York is the CEO. It sounds like these farmers are in essence saying, hey, let's impose rules on ourselves. That's exactly right.

Yes, which is kind of anathema to how they normally think, right? Yeah. We have to do it. You know, any kind of outbreak is detrimental to our industry. Jack Vesey is a fourth-generation produce farmer.

On the day we visited his 10,000-acre farm in Southern California, his team harvested nearly half a million cabbages. I take this produce to my family every night. I give it to my friends. So you can you can walk over here and just eat that without washing? I do. Can I? Well, you don't have a hairnet. Oh, man. There's a little baby fresh one here.

Thank you, man. Tastes like safety. If I was a farmer 25 years ago and teleported here.

Well, if my dad was here today, he'd probably think, oh, my gosh, what are you guys doing now? You know, the tissue sampling, the water testing, the treating of the water. The LGMA rules require sanitizing the irrigation water, testing it at the source and at the spraying end, hairnets and gloves, knife disinfectant. And at least six times a year, inspections from state auditors like Nancy Hautigy. We're checking for any kind of environmental risks.

In addition to that, there's an interview portion where I'm interviewing several crew members. Vessi's farm even holds mock food outbreak drills twice a year. Our food safety manager will call our office and say, recall this field, this block.

I need answers. And I could tell you who was in there, what fertilizer company, what seed company, what crews in there, everything within 30 minutes. Because stopping a truck or bringing that product back and recalling as quick as possible is very important. All right, so despite all of this, outbreaks still happen.

So why are they still happening? Outbreaks may occur because we are growing the product outdoors. You know, some bacteria just occur naturally within an environment.

They just exist. And so we control as much of the ecosystem as we can. Of course, you can't control every variable outdoors. Before they walk into this field to start harvesting this cabbage, what they'll do is walk around the field and look. If there's bird dropping, they would remove this entire block from production or harvest.

Because that's a potential risk. And so, as 2025 dawned, that's where things stood. Beef contamination, largely under control. Chicken, still no law against salmonella. Produce farmers controlling the parts of the process they can control.

And then this happened. Tonight, federal cuts are prompting a warning about food safety. Everywhere you look, the ability of the agency to do this fundamental job will be impaired. The Trump administration has fired 3,500 people from the FDA saying that it's eliminating waste.

Hundreds of them worked in the Food Safety Division, whose director resigned in protest. Bad stuff will happen, whether it's the inability to promptly investigate an outbreak, the inability to oversee imports in a way that keeps foreign products that are making people sick. There are people who say, oh my god, you people, what can I eat that's safe anymore? I mean, you know, it's 3,000 deaths. Everyone is a huge tragedy for a family and for the victim. You know, but think of how many eating occasions there are in a day. People are eating all the time, all year round, all those eating occasions.

It's extremely low risk that you're going to get sick, and you've got to eat. You might remember the TV show, Smash. With a title like that, it was perhaps destined for Broadway.

Now it's there. And as Tracey Smith tells us, everyone involved is hoping it lives up to its name. The new musical, Smash, is everything you'd expect, and maybe more. But like most big Broadway musicals, what you're seeing up on stage is only half the story. Smash Broadway is based on the 2012 NBC show of the same name. It was a cult hit, and a show people love to hate. A drama within a drama about the making of a Broadway show about Marilyn Monroe called Bombshell, with Megan Hilty and Katharine McPhee vying for the role of a lifetime. And now, after more than a decade of fits and starts, here it is. A Broadway show based on a TV show about the making of a Broadway show. Confusing? Maybe.

But it all seems to work. The score for both versions of Smash really started here, with two guys and a piano. The music and words are from legendary composing team Mark Shaiman and Scott Whitman. How long have you worked together? Since 1976.

So what is that? Yeah, it was the tall ship's Legionnaires disease instead of Sam. That's when I met Mark. In their long partnership, Shaiman and Whitman have created things for Broadway, Hollywood, and sometimes both, like the musical Hairspray. They still remember the moment they came up with that show's big closing number. And I suddenly was like, you know, you can't stop an avalanche as it races down the hill. And it was just pouring out of me.

Hairspray earned Shaiman and Whitman a Tony Award, but even after all their success, taking on Smash gave them that feeling they get before they start anything new. The fear of failure. You two sing a little song before you approach every project? Well, yes, we sing it almost every day too. Paralyzed with fear, paralyzed with fear. That's how we start writing any song. And we sing that for a day.

Because you're just looking at a white blank page and it's just the most frightening thing on earth. The music department, we're taking it from our leading ladies happy. To create a show within a show, it helps to have a rather experienced team, including renowned director Susan Stroman. You know, you've won five Tonys.

You've done this a long time. Are there lessons that you've taken from that that apply to Smash? Yes, I have everything that is in Smash I've actually lived through. The idea was to keep what was good from the TV show and reimagine the rest. The music stayed, of course, but the TV show was more of a drama.

So with the blessing of producer Steven Spielberg, yeah, he does Broadway too. They made it funny. This show will not end with Marilyn lying on a bed naked and dead wrapped in a white satin sheet. Exactly. Nobody wants to buy a ticket to a depressing show.

I can stay home and be depressed for free. There were also a few funny things they didn't plan. In the show, a main character was out and is replaced by an understudy at the last minute. And on the night of the very first preview, it happened for real. One of the taglines for Smash is behind every Broadway musical is a hot mess. Yes, and that is absolutely true. You go in with the best intentions and something invariably goes wrong and then everybody's on top of it to see how to fix it.

Or which department can fix it. And the right spices when the stand-up bass slaps you in the face. What ain't my husband's Alan Grace? Robin Herder is Ivy Lynn, an actress who plays Marilyn Monroe and winds up assuming her character. In this factory where dreams can come true, are you ready to make someone new? It's like a sandbox and I just get to play around in it and get to do all the things. I get to be crazy. I get to be mean. I get to be sweet. I get to be funny. I get to cry, you know, and I get to sing and dance.

But it's everything. I'll just have to forget the girl I used to love. Herder's personal story adds yet another layer to the oh-so-meta show. She's a Broadway veteran who made her mark not as a singer, but a dancer. And beneath that effortless glamour is someone who's fought 20 years for this moment, even past her own personal breaking point. Were there moments where you wanted to give up?

Yeah. The whole business, this musical theatre business, was really, really getting to me. I realized that was my clock ticking and I was like, I think I need to be a mom.

And I don't know if I want to do this anymore. I said to my husband, I said, I think I want to have a baby. She did have a baby, a son, Hudson, and then everything changed. Having Hudson was the best thing that ever could have happened to me because that's when everything switched and everything clicked. I'm back and I'm achieving my dreams. So protect them and take special care.

Take care. So will it be a smash? One of the ads says, if you loved the TV series, it's exactly what you want. And if you didn't, we've changed everything.

And don't forget me. But at its heart, Smash is really about collaboration, warts and all. And to these two lifelong collaborators, that might be a story that works for everyone. What do you think the appeal is for somebody who hasn't seen the TV show? I believe it's a universal feeling of watching a group of people trying to go to work. All right, what do we got to accomplish today?

I think everyone can relate to that. Survivor 48 is here and alongside it, we're bringing you a brand new season of On Fire, the only official Survivor podcast. If you're a Survivor superfan, you won't want to miss this deep dive into every episode where we break down how we designed the game, the biggest moves, your burning questions. It's the only podcast that gives you inside access to Survivor that nobody else can.

Listen to On Fire, the official Survivor podcast with me, Jeff Kropes, every Wednesday after the show, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm going to be famous! The most original musical ever is now streaming on Paramount Plus. Just giving the people what they want. From the director of The Greatest Showman, Better Man absolutely sizzles from start to finish. What are you going to say?

I want the world to see who I really am. It's wildly inventive and hilariously entertaining. No, stop it. It's nothing. It's only the biggest event in history.

He's earned a Michelin star, been awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom, and is considered one of the most influential people in the world. But Chef José Andrés is most comfortable whipping up a simple meal at home, where he's in conversation with our Cala Fosseigne. Okay, okay.

So today you are lucky that usually we don't do this in my house. You don't typically find Chef José Andrés at home. Often he's wherever there's trouble.

Okay, we're going through very high water. Feeding survivors of wars or natural disasters. He's founder of World Central Kitchen, the 15-year-old nonprofit.

But here, outside Washington, where he and his wife raised three daughters. Nothing makes me call home more than tortilla Espanola. José Andrés, world-renowned chef, is making me a tortilla Espanola, or Spanish omelet. I can turn it in the air, but I'm not going to do it because I don't want to make a fool of myself. So I'm going to do this. I did it!

I f***ed it up in front of TV. Okay, so I changed the name of the recipe. But look at this. Oh my God.

Do you see? It's very like a crepe. It's like a crepe in one side, but what happens inside? Take a look. It's still soft inside.

It's still very soft. In the kitchen, and in his own life, Andrés keeps going, correcting mistakes and savoring triumphs along the way. He explains it all in his new book, Change the Recipe. You don't like to sit around agonizing over the next decision. If you don't move, you will learn nothing. Even if you are going in the wrong direction, you are already moving.

You are already learning. His education began in his parents' kitchen in Spain. For me, food always equals happiness, equals celebration, equals friends. He brought the celebration to America. In 1993, he helped launch a restaurant in Washington called Jaleo, which served tapas, small portions meant to be shared. Tapas, which was a great way to spread what the Spanish cooking was, one small plate at a time. Were you having to explain to American diners, here's how tapas works? You guys are going to have to share.

Well, yes and no. In the early days, I think a big message of sharing is happiness. If somebody doesn't like sharing, I say it's the 20-inch solution. Bring the plate in the middle of the table 20 inches towards you, then raise your fork, raise your knife. This is my castle, and you're not touching my plate.

In 2003, he opened Mini Bar by José Andrés, a tiny but ambitious restaurant that earned two Michelin stars for its imaginative, sometimes futuristic food. I get the sense there's part of you that loves these traditional, simple, humble dishes. And there's part of you that likes to experiment. Tradition is everything. It's very important.

But we need to remember that the traditions of today were the modernity of the past, and that the things that we think are very almost science fiction type of things will be the traditions of tomorrow. Thank you for coming. How was your meal? The José Andrés restaurant group now includes nearly 40 restaurants across the country.

Andrés stepped back from the company last year to focus on his many other projects, including books, TV shows, Let's say a politician. and his global food institute at George Washington University. We make sure that one day we'll have a president that'll be a food president, because if we solve those problems, all of a sudden everything else seems much easier. I'll be the food president. You will. I'm voting for you.

I'm voting for you. But he admits that shuttling between his many enterprises and his humanitarian work can be a struggle. Me, every time I come back from those missions, it's hard to come back, because a part of your brain will always be there. But it's an unusually big difference for you. You're getting food to some of the most desperate people in the world, but also at your restaurant, you're serving some of the finest food in the world. Well, that's what gets sometimes hard.

When you come back and then you have to go to a minibar, you're to start shipping. But at the end, there's no guiltiness in that. Life must go on. And it's okay to be enjoying a high meal or cooking for your friends with great wines in your house.

And at the same time, remind yourself that there are people that they are not as lucky as you are, and that we must do something. Since 2010, World Central Kitchen has been going into natural disasters, feeding the hungry using local ingredients and local infrastructure. It's best known because Andrés is out front. By 2017, Hurricane Maria hits Puerto Rico, and you serve four million meals. Well, Maria was really right before was Irma. Houston was Irma, right? I was there two weeks.

A week later, I am landing in San Juan. In 2024, World Central Kitchen served more than 109 million meals in 20 countries. Man-made disasters can make the work even harder. How do you operate in a war zone without taking sides? There's no sides. We don't take sides. We feed people. When Israel was attacked by Hamas, we were feeding the people in the south, in all the kibbutz, and then we were there also in the north of Israel. At the same time, we went into Gaza.

Food and water is and must always be a universal right. When you were in Gaza, you lost seven people that were killed by an Israeli military strike in April of last year. You said at the memorial, we are all consumed with anger, regret, and sorrow. Did you have to put the anger to the side in order to keep doing the kind of work that you're doing? When you lose somebody, and especially when it's people you love and they are so close to you, it makes you think, how are we going to be helping the world without taking some risk? Because people in their darkest hour, they're going to be alone. Fighting hate with hate is not the way.

So are we going to be betting and investing in building longer tables for Israel to have a brighter future, for the people of Palestine has the future they deserve, for the people of the Middle East, for the people of the world, for the people of Ukraine. At 55, Jose Andres says he can't be everywhere, but maybe his organization and his philosophy can. One of the biggest assets of humanity is that everybody has empathy within themselves that they don't even know. I didn't call it Jose Andres Kitchen. This organization belongs to so many people.

There's no Jose Andres feeding in Ukraine, or feeding in Gaza, or feeding in North Carolina. I've been there, but that was more the old days. Now I try to make sure I spend my time, even if anything, more wisely. But I have a hard time not going. Personally.

But I'm not worried because I know somebody else is there. After Starr turns as a computer hacker, a legendary rock star, and a Bond villain, actor Rami Malek is taking on a whole new kind of role. He tells Seth Doan all about it in our Sunday profile. You do deep dives into these characters you play. What is it that you love about that side, the research side?

I think it's the only way to get down to the absolute truth. That's your superpower, essentially. Long before Rami Malek landed the part portraying Queen frontman Freddie Mercury, he says he'd been preparing for it, wearing a set of false teeth he had made to mimic the singer's distinctive overbite. I'll get a lot of Freddie's thrown at me in the street. Really, you'll be walking? Yeah. Someone will shout.

Yeah, give him a little wink and a smile. It's a rock and roll record with a scale of opera. The performance won him an Oscar and exemplifies the intensity with which he approaches a role. I don't think you could play a character like Freddie Mercury without doing copious amounts of homework. Are you high again? Well done, Columbo. You need to slow down, Fred. Don't be such a bore.

I'm here. I remember getting a call right after Bohemian Rhapsody and they said, what type of film would you want to do next? And I said, believe it or not, an action film.

Why? I thought there was a group of people who were underrepresented in that genre. He's fixed that in The Amateur, a thriller which opens in theaters Friday.

I want to find and kill the people who murdered my wife. Malek plays Charlie Heller, an introverted decoder for the CIA who becomes an unlikely hero on a global mission for revenge. I think I gravitate to these characters who are profoundly alienated, seen as outcasts, different. Is that because there's something personal for you?

You're going for it, yeah. I don't know who hasn't felt different in their life. Who hasn't felt like an outsider?

But perhaps, yes. My origin story, for lack of a better word, is as a first generation American, we definitely were seen as different to a degree and fitting in was something I worked hard on and never seemed to perfectly adjust to. Your parents went to the US in 1978 from Egypt, Coptic Christians. You spoke Arabic at home. But it seems you also had a very Southern California, San Fernando Valley life too. To a degree, yeah.

I think my parents were trying to protect us and wanted to create a very safe, structured place for us that perhaps allowed my imagination to flourish in a way. Malek at 43 is still mining that imagination. I can spend hours alone focusing on a character and developing a backstory or getting on the phone with a psychiatrist the way I did for Mr. Robot. Why is it so important for you to torment me?

In his breakout role in Mr. Robot, Malek is a hacker struggling with mental illness and battling corporate power. I understand.

I'll try harder. It seems you like to play both these kind of unlikely heroes, but also the odd villain here and there. You smile. I do. I do. Who doesn't want to play a villain in a Bond film? You know that history isn't kind to those who play God. And you don't?

We both eradicate people to make the world a better place. I just want to be a little...idea. For his role in The Pacific, Malek spent hours in solitude imagining what it would be like to be in a foxhole. And before that, there was the work to get any acting job. I was stuffing manila envelopes with my headshot and resume and sending them to every agent, every studio. There was one moment where I got a call from a casting director, Mara Casey, and she said, we'd love to see Rami Malek for this role. We'd like to speak with his agent. I said, speaking. What's her name? Rami Malek. And she laughed.

Any other suggestions? Assistant Pastor Eric? His charm and tenacity helped land the part, and others trickled in. Listen to me very carefully. I have a bomb. Give me your weapon right now or I'll kill us both. There were roles because of my heritage playing a terrorist, and that was something I thought, I can't just...I'll be pigeonholed.

And that's not the way I want to represent my culture. In 24, the Kiefer Sutherland TV show, you played a character who blew himself up. Yeah, I think that was the last one. I said, enough is enough there.

In a very different turn at London's Old Vic Theatre this year, Malek took on the role of Oedipus in the classic Greek tragedy. We first met backstage. Hey, how are you? I'm Seth. Nice to meet you. Nice work. Thank you. Nice work yourself. I've been watching you on Sundays.

True to form, Malek had done his research. I redirected. How different is the stage from the screen? It's exhilarating. It's exhilarating because you get to share in something communal. Hi, everyone. Hi.

It was closing night and those who took part in that communal experience lined up to see him. Italian fans. Italian fans. Italian fans. From every country. All the fans.

Thank you for making Egyptians so proud. Are you hearing people? Is it registering what they're saying? I do. Yes, simply I do. I love connecting with people. It's been the trickiest part of the fame that has come my way.

Sometimes you have to walk down the street and keep your head down and not be able to acknowledge people or have the conversations. The actor who's protective of his personal life has made a second home here in London. There's something about being in Los Angeles where you always, I think, revert back to that youthful place of still trying to discover yourself and perhaps I have a bit more confidence in this city.

Malek is a producer on the amateur and wanted to shoot in London. It's where a key scene sets his character on a mission, giving an outsider a chance to shine. Sound familiar? You don't still feel like an outsider, an outcast, do you? I don't know how anyone ever feels truly integrated into the world and settled. I don't know that I'd ever want to not feel like an outsider. Winning an Oscar obviously opens so many doors. Does it set expectations that you feel then you've got to meet?

It doesn't actually. I've never really set any lofty expectations for myself. I wanted to be just a working actor. I'm pretty satisfied with what I've accomplished. If anything else comes of it that can top that, I would be flabbergasted. But hey, I'm open to it.

Holly Williams has our Sunday Journal. A look at a most unlikely geopolitical hotspot, Greenland. Greenland is a quiet place, remote behind its icy fjords, but now suddenly a hot property. We have to have Greenland. It's not a question of do you think we can do without it? We can't. President Trump seems determined to take over and has refused to rule out using force. I think we're going to get it.

One way or the other, we're going to get it. 2,000 miles north of Washington in Greenland's capital, Nuke, they're watching with anxiety and anger. If we were to be American, it would mean that we would lose our language, we would lose our culture. Aya Chemnitz is one of Greenland's representatives in Denmark's parliament. For now at least, Greenland's a semi-autonomous part of Denmark, which colonised the place hundreds of years ago. Greenlanders have some experience with land grabs. What do you think President Trump wants with Greenland? I think he's interested in expanding the land.

I think he's interested in the legacy also. But Greenlanders have their own legacy. Like nearly 90% of them, Chemnitz has Inuit heritage, Greenland's indigenous people. How long have your ancestors lived on this land? Forever, forever, for thousands of years.

What does it mean to be Inuit? We're not necessarily focusing that much on capitalism. We're focusing very much on relations. So this is also an issue that I don't think the Trump administration would respect. Trump says America needs Greenland for security reasons. And it's true that the US is competing with Russia and China in the Arctic for military and economic dominance. Greenland has a tiny population of around 56,000.

But it's three times the size of Texas, with potential new shipping lanes and the Russian Navy's northern fleet close by. America's only military base in Greenland is vital because the shortest route for Russian ballistic missiles to target the US would be across the Arctic. 85% of Greenlanders do not want to be part of the United States, according to a recent poll.

But the majority do want full independence from Denmark. I think if Greenland was independent and left the security umbrella of NATO as a consequence, it would undoubtedly look and feel more vulnerable. But being owned by America won't make Greenland safer, according to Professor Klaus Dodds, an expert in Arctic security.

It has a very long coastline, about 25,000 miles. Does it need more military bases, maybe some more US military bases? What you could arguably make the case for is better maritime and aerial surveillance. But again, I think what's creating insecurity in Greenland right now, frankly speaking, is President Trump's rhetoric about annexation. No other country has spoken about annexing Greenland. President Trump may also prize Greenland for another reason. It's large and mainly untapped deposits of rare earth minerals.

They're used in everything from cell phones to electric car batteries. And at the moment, China has a stranglehold on global supply. Climate change is melting Greenland's ice sheet, which covers around 80% of this vast island. That's making Greenland's mineral reserves more accessible. And they're coveted by the US and other nations. President Trump wants immortality to make America great again. And that means making America larger.

There is also very specific demand, which is getting access to rare earths, because I think he's been told quite reasonably that certain countries, particularly China, have some kind of material advantage. This is not American diplomacy as we have known it in recent decades. Is there a cost to that when it comes to America's European allies? It becomes a very lonely place. Your allies stop trusting you.

This is remarkable to say what I'm about to say. The United States stops being a trusted and reliable partner. In Greenland, this new Trump-style diplomacy appears to have backfired.

Greenland has told us they're open for business with the US, but it needs to come with respect. Greenland is not for sale. It never will be for sale. At any price. It will never be for sale. Thank you for listening. Please join us when our trumpet sounds again next Sunday morning.