Marriage Game Plan | George & Tondra Gregory

Two NFL chaplains and marriage coaches will offer couples a game plan for marriage today on Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman. When you have routines that you practice every day, you can stack the wins over and over again. And the importance of that game plan is it puts couples on the same page, giving them the intentionality so that they can be successful about where they're headed. Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr.

Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . Today, founders of the marriage ministry journey for life George and Tondra Gregory will join us. Their new book is titled The Marriage Game Plan, Developing a Winning Strategy for Marital Success. Find out more at buildingrelationships.us. I think this conversation is going to give some hope to someone with a little bit of marriage struggle in their lives.

I can't wait to hear from our guests. And Gary, I know you're going to resonate with the hope that they have for couples. Absolutely, Chris. This book they've written is absolutely incredible and our listeners are going to get to hear bits and pieces of it and I hope they're going to read it later on down the road because it's very, very practical and very, very helpful. I agree.

Let's meet them. Tondra and George Gregory have been married for 30 years. They have two children. They founded the marriage ministry Journey for Life. Previously, they led the marriage ministry at Saddleback Church in California.

They are the chaplains for the LA Chargers, providing marital support and mentorship. Their book is our featured resource. Go to buildingrelationships.us. It's titled, Get Ready: The Marriage Game Plan: Developing a Winning Strategy for Marital Success. You'll find it at buildingrelationships.us.

Bojorgentundra, welcome to Building Relationships. Yes, thank you so much for having us. We're so excited. Let's start with your own love story. How did you two meet and how did you know she was the one or he was the one?

Share with us your early journey. Sure, sure.

Well, Tundra and I, we met in biology 101 and first day of school in college.

So that was a no-brainer, Dr. Chapman. I looked at her anatomy and I said, wow, that's a good thing. Listen, we did meet. That is a true story.

We did meet in biology 101 and we had a lot of the same classes together. And so we just kept seeing each other in the same classes. And so George tells this story that, oh, you must have seen me in the classes and went and signed up to be in all of my classes when you saw me in biology. His view is that I had to have him.

So I just wanted to see him all day long. Oh, yes.

Okay.

So what did the early years of your marriage look like?

Well, we started off really rough because we were responding to Tundra and I, well. We got pregnant. And so, my dad always taught me to handle my responsibilities. And I thought, man, I better handle this responsibility with fear and trembling, bringing a child into the world. And so we look back many years later and say we didn't have a game plan.

And so, because of that, we struggled for the first few years of marriage. Yes, we really didn't know. Everything happened so fast, and once the dust settled, we were just like, oh my gosh, we are so different. How do we make this work? We didn't realize how much our differences and our backgrounds and our personalities and all of those things would be in opposition to each other.

Those first few years were very struggling, and we just couldn't figure it out. We like to say we are pictures of God's grace because we shouldn't even be here married 30 years later and helping other couples get their marriage game plan.

So we know that it was God's grace that helped us figure out how to be married. And we immediately wanted to help other couples. Yeah, and that's how we started off, but then we. Then we stumbled upon a book called "The 5 Love Languages" , and I was like, This is not fair. Like, we should have known this from day one, but somebody withheld it from us, and we struggled.

But then there was a lot of clarity. And I mean that. I really sincerely mean that. It was. Life-changing.

It was opening to learn to speak Tundra's love language. I was doing it the whole wrong way. And it was just life to our soul. And since then, we've rebounded and just become self-studiers and. wanting to work on our marriage and become pros at being a married couple.

I wish someone had given me "The 5 Love Languages" before I got married. It was definitely a game changer, for real.

Well, it's interesting that after you found some healing and growth, which hopefully every couple will if they'll let God help them, but. What prompted you to get into marriage ministry and to start a journey for life? Yeah, well, we started off again.

So with the struggle that we wanted couples to not start off like we started off. And so we just had this God-developed heart that when he touched our heart to not just become a better couple, but to help other couples become all that they could be in marriage, we felt like that was God promoting in our hearts to do what we call journey for life. Yeah, and it was a big part of. You know, just not knowing how to make that marriage work and not knowing that, oh, it's something you have to learn.

Sometimes I feel like I know if couples are like us, we just thought, oh, you would get married, and because you're Christians and you love God, this is just going to work out. But once we realized, like, no, you have to actually learn how to become one, you have to learn how to be married. And we were just like, the light bulb was like, we got to let people know, like, no, you really have to put the work in. Yeah, that's for sure. You know, absolutely.

None of us, none of us, it just happens. I mean, the in-love experience just happens, you know, before you're married. But when you come down off that, we're different. We're human. We're different in many ways, and we have to learn.

So, well, I'm just glad that, you know, you took your own struggles that you went through and the things you learned, and then, you know, are using all of that to help other couples.

So tell us about your work as chaplains for the L.A. Chargers and other NFL teams. How has that shaped this book, The Marriage Game Plan?

Well, yes.

So for the last 16 seasons, we've been helping either chaplains of other teams or for the last nine seasons, we've been the LA Chargers chaplains. And it's really just given us a platform to not only preach the gospel, but to also help these young men, whether they're players or coaches or front office staff, understand the importance of marriage and also how to develop a game plan. Yes, we definitely saw a lot of similarities with working with teams, NFL teams, and similarities with marriage. And we were just thinking, hey, we just want to have the man in mind, right? The men in mind, because we felt like that was a language that really resonated with them understanding marital principles.

So that's why we wrote the marriage game plan to just engage our men because we know that as women, we are the ones that really get the guys to go to the marriage conferences and marriage retreats. Treats and read books, but we were just like, okay, how can we, you know, engage the men where they feel like they really resonate with some of the language and terminology? Right. That's an important part of who our DNA is, right? Because we predominantly minister to men along with their wives.

Sandra does the wives and girlfriends of the players and coaches. I normally do the coaches and players. I tell her, Dr. Chapman, I tell her she can go anywhere in the LA Chargers facility that she wants to, besides the locker room, for fear she may see 12 abs compared to my one ab.

So our heart is to really reach the heart of these men and to help them to in the language that they understand.

So we wrote the marriage book. It is a marriage book, but we undergird it by. By using sports analogies to talk about marriage points. And so they get it right when we first started giving it out in the locker room. They get how to be on the same team.

They get that although your differences, you've got to learn your role. You've got to learn to celebrate each other through Victory Monday.

So all the aspects that we've learned over the last 16 years, we've put in that book, the marriage game plan. And it's not just about football. We use other sports analogies as well, but it has given us sort of a foundation in which to build upon. Yes. Yeah, I really like that.

And I think even men who are not actively involved in sports, they're still involved in sports and they get the concepts, you know, and the metaphors that you use in the books.

So that's great.

Well, for those who don't know the concept of a game plan, what is it and how do you develop a marriage game plan? Yeah, well, how to develop the concept of a game plan is really that you come together as a married couple or as a seriously dating couple and you say, here's what we want our marriage to look like. First of all, we say you have to define the win, right? Define the win because let's just face it, every NFL team or NBA team, what they want to ultimately do is they want to win the championship.

So that's their end goal picture. And couples need to find out that end goal picture. After 50 or 60 years of marriage, what do you want your marriage to look like? What legacy do you want to leave? And a part of that game plan is coming outside of just defining the win is setting your goals.

Once you define where you want to go, set your goals. And work your way towards that together as a team. And then you got to realize who your teammate is.

Sometimes in marriage, and we can talk about this a little bit more later, but sometimes in marriage, we understand we're teammates, but when we're going through seasons of challenge or change, we don't feel much like teammates. Another step in this regard is identifying the opponents to your team success. We all have enemies that try to come against our marriage, whether it's disease or whether it's career changes or whether it's just the things that just happens in normal everyday life. And we've got to understand that our spouse is not our enemy. There are things that try to separate us.

And then lastly, a part of that game plan. Is once you can find out what you want to do together, then put your plan of action together and stick to that. Because we know in sports, when you have routines that you practice every day, you can stack the wins over and over again. Yeah. And the importance of that game plan is it puts couples on the same page heading in the same direction.

Because marriage is not something that is haphazard, that you just roll the dice or you figure it out as you go along. George Dad used to say, if you fail to plan, then your plan is to fail. But that's what the game plan is: giving them the intentionality to get on that same page so that they can be successful about where they're headed. Let's talk about that because I think many, many couples, I don't even know that they would say, you know, we're not on the same team, but they don't work as team members. You know, one's got one idea, one's got another idea.

How do couples face that struggle? We're individuals, but we're not competing. We're together. We're on the same team. Speak to that a little bit more.

Yes, that being on the same team is such a mindset because working with NFO players, it's like when they put on that jersey and it's the same team that they know. this is the person that i've got to work through all my dysfunctions mistakes and we've got to go through life's ups and downs together as teammates and so having that mindset as a teammate is crucial and to be on the same same team you have to figure out how you work together what are those strengths and what are those roles and where do we fill each other's gaps and where do we complement each other. It's important to know you're on the same team and have that mindset because if you don't, then you're going to resist all the ways that your spouse is different from you, all the ways they think and do things differently. But being on the same team says, oh, no, they have strengths that make our team great.

So I got to receive those. Yeah. And then we feel like that most teammates, whether it's on the sports field or in marriage, right? We feel like teammates until we have fights or what we call in our house, because we're pastors, we don't call it fights. We call it intense fellowship.

Yes, intense fellowship. And so when couples are experiencing intense fellowship or they're fighting to get their way across or their porn across, sometimes they don't feel like teammates. They feel more like enemies. And yet we can understand that if we can come with this concept of we're always on the same team. And there's sometimes that Tundra and I.

In our moments of intensity with each other or, you know, feeling passionate about a conversation, if we can let each other know through a soft touch or through a whisper, hey, we're on the same team, that just helps us to reset and regard each other as teammates. versus enemies. Yeah. Yeah. They're even verbalizing it, right?

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's great. Yeah.

So you talk about a marriage vision statement and how important that is as a first step.

So can you walk us through like a marriage vision statement? What does that look like? What does that sound like? Yeah, so we understand this concept as maybe CEOs, your listeners might be, or managers in corporations. We understand that if a corporation is going to be successful, it has to have a vision statement and a mission statement.

But when we can bring that to the home game, we understand that it really helps us to get on the same page and head in the same direction. It's that end goal picture of what you want your marriage to look like. And so for a vision statement, we suggest that a couple, a husband and his wife, gets together and they both add their top two or four components to what they want their. Marriage to look like their end game picture, and then put that down and make sure that you can go back to that vision statement together as a couple that you craft.

So, for instance, Tandra and I, our parts of our vision statement is: we want to always laugh together, right? We want to have a long-lasting love. We want to also have a legacy that we leave for our kids where our kids will be so enamored that they say, We want a marriage just like your marriage. And so, in order to have those things, though, you can't. Start 50 or 60 years from now.

You've got to start day one at working on that plan that you kind of come up together and write with because that's your vision statement. And the vision statement can serve as like that compass. It's to guide your decisions, is to govern your actions because we're trying to align with the vision of what we want to leave and where we're heading. And so then you can work backwards from there and just say, oh, this is where we're heading.

Now let us make these different turns and twists that get us to that designation. Yeah, for some couples, they might want to just make sure that they are putting in that vision statement that they want to honor God and each other, right? When I honor God, when I keep his playbook, the Bible before me, I can run his plays and a part of his plays will help me to love my wife just like Christ loved the church. But I also want to honor my wife. I want to honor her.

her through my communication. I want to honor her through intimacy. I want to honor her. Even when we're not on the same page, I want to honor her heart. And that's what we feel like when we put those elements in that vision statement, it just keeps us headed in the same direction.

Yeah. I really like the importance of a vision statement, but I know there are many couples that really have never sat down and even thought about that, and that's where I think this book is going to help them. You know, on that thing of legacy, you know, wanting to leave a positive legacy. One of the questions I asked myself several times when our kids were growing up. is what if my son treats his wife the way I treat my wife?

And that led me to make some very significant decisions along the way, you know? Sure, sure.

So that that whole thing, thinking about your legacy is an important part, I think, of a vision statement.

Well, you write about four main purposes God had in creating marriage. Let's talk about one of those. How does marriage reflect God's image? To the world. Yes.

So we believe that God created marriage.

So it's his idea. And like anything that we want to be successful or get the optimal performance out of, we got to go back to the creator, you know?

So, you know, with the iPhone, we just switched to iPhone.

So we're just like learning. We're going back to the owner's manual to figure out what is everything, all the benefits that we can get from this and how are we supposed to operate this. Going back and knowing that one of the purposes that God created marriage is to reflect his image, that means we have a responsibility of God created the family to be that environment where he passed his nature on from generation to generation, his character from generation to generation.

So we have to reflect his image to our children and our community. Yeah, and what that looks like in a very practical way is we reflect his image by how we love our neighbor, right, as ourself. He says, love your neighbor. He says, love God with all your heart, your mind, your soul, and your strength, but also love your neighbor. In this instance, as a couple, your spouse is your neighbor.

And so how we love our neighbor is reflective of our relationship of who God is. That's how we love, how we forgive, how we're patient, and how we're kind.

So in many respects, we might say in marriage that marriage is about our wants, our needs. But really, one of the essential parts of marriage, a healthy marriage, is how are we reflecting? God's image, his nature, his characteristics to the world around us, our community, whether it's our kids or whether it's our grandkids or people in our community around us. And so reflecting God's image is a very part of his plan of why he called two to become one. And we always like to say, because we know we live in a selfie generation that we're on these smartphones taking selfies all the time.

And so, you know, you just. take a thousand photos and only the best image is worthy to be seen on social media by others, right?

So we like to say in our cultural context that marriage is God's best selfie. His best selfie of his nature, how to love and forgive is reflected, his image. We want to make sure that we're reflecting his true nature and character to the world around us. That's a high standard to be sure, right? The good news is we have God's help, right?

That's right. God's help. Oh, we definitely couldn't do it without God's help. It's an ongoing process.

Now, you also talk about winning the home game. You know, there are many athletes and coaches who know how to win on the field, but their homes are less than ideal.

So how do we win the home game? Yeah, well, winning the home game, that's a concept that, again, most of us understand, especially as business people or people who really want to conquer what's outside the home, such as a career or extracurricular activities or their hobbies, is we call that the away game. And that's important, right? God calls us to have, you know, to establish something in the earth, whether it's a career or things, whether it's a nonprofit. But he also wants us to win at home.

And so winning at home just looks like that you would see that home life is a priority. It's not secondary. It's really primary. It's the greatest legacy. That we could ever try to live.

My dad used to say this. He used to say, I've never seen a U-Haul attached to a hearse. And that always stood out to me because we can't take all the money, all the 401ks, all the assets that we accumulate. Unfortunately, we can't take that with us. But most of us, we work our entire life to accumulate things or work that nine to five, and yet we neglect somewhat the home life.

And we just like to say to people, don't neglect the home life. It is the primary thing in life that you will be remembered for. Yes. And that's where the legacy lives on. I know people want to have generational wealth that they want to pass on, but truly, the legacy is in your relationships, in the people who love you, the people you need to invest the most time.

Marriage is one of the most important institutions that we will be a part of, and it requires no less effort than all the other institutions that you want to be successful in.

So making sure that is a priority. We don't want to get it out of order that we're winning out there and all those other things. Things, but then we lose the thing that actually passes our legacy on from generation to generation. How how do you how do you make time to do that in a busy world and particularly for those individuals who are spending so many hours and their vocation. Yeah, well, one of the main things that we say is my wife taught me this.

She said, finish your conversate. When we had kids that were in the home, she would say, finish your conversations in the garage because I was bringing my conversations in on the phone. My kids, who were small at that time, were jumping at my feet to say hello. And I would kind of give them the Heishman, like just wait on dad, just stay right there. And she would say, the kids want to spend time with you.

So what I learned to do was to turn that cell phone off when I got in the house because let's face it, when we get those notifications as business people, as leaders in the community, we want to answer those, but family life is very important. And so. Have focused family time, whether that's scheduled vacations, whether that's scheduled family time, whether it's just planning long walks with your spouse after work or on the weekends so that you guys could connect because that's a primary way to show your spouse that you want to win your home game. And I would just say just really being able to say no to things. Like that's a powerful word.

Do you you just have to make sure that you Make time for your family and make time for your spouse. The calendar is not going to do that for you. You have to do that. You have to put it on your schedule like any other important appointment that you don't want to miss and have to say no to things. And that's going to take trust in God because in our world today, we feel like.

Yeah, that we're missing out. This smartphone is always on. People can get in touch with us. All times of the day, we used to work nine to five and those boundaries were already set for us. But now we have to be the one to create the boundaries and saying no is a part of creating those boundaries and being protective over the time that you have allotted for your family.

It sounds a lot like quality time to me that you two are describing right there. Is that it? Yes. Yeah, of course. Of course.

And again, we know this with other things, but sometimes we neglect what's the most important things. And so our book just really calls us back to the main thing. Let's keep the main focus on that which matters the most.

Now, it doesn't mean that we can't go out and build successful careers. We're all called to do those things, but it definitely means that at the end of the day, I don't think God's going to say, hey, how did you build this Fortune 500 company? I think he's going to say. How'd you treat your spouse or how'd you treat your kids or what legacy did you leave behind? Because we are people that are purpose to make God's impact known in the world.

This is the Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman Podcast. George and Tondra Gregory have written our featured resource today. It's titled The Marriage Game Plan, Developing a Winning Strategy for Marital Success. Find out more at buildingrelationships.us.

Plus, you can take a free assessment of your love language there. Plus, you can take a free assessment of your love language there and see when Gary's coming to your area for a seminar. Just go to buildingrelationships.us or find us at fivelovelanguages.com.

Well, we know that athletes need rest and recovery. and so do relationships.

So why is it necessary for a couple And then how do you two Do that, make time for rest and recovery for yourself. Yeah, it's important. Athletes know that in order to play their best in the game, they have to rest and recover after games and practices so they can bring their best every time. And so it's just as important. To rest and recover as it is to play in the game.

So, as couples, we have to realize because couples are under a lot of stress and pressure as well. And so, sometimes in our world, we don't value rest and recovery. We feel like it's always, we've got to grind, we've got to hustle, we've got to accomplish a lot of things.

So, this is a call to value rest and recovery and is to create those rhythms in your day-to-day life. How can we carve out time for us to rest and manage our stress? Yeah, even in the Bible, it's a biblical principle of Sabbath, right?

Now, Sabbath could be one day a week or it could be for a number of weeks in the summertime. I remember in New York City planning as a church planner in Manhattan, I sort of burned out, and a part of my recovery was to take a three-month sabbatical. And I had to really put church down, and it was so hard. But the assignment was to worship God every day. To get back into, I desire my relationship with God more than the machine of ministry and take that sabbatical.

And so, for some couples, they need to have that one day a week where they say, you know what, today is the day that I am going to rest because I can't be a husband at my optimal performance unless I rest. And some of that, again, is vacation.

Some of that is literally just cutting that phone off, putting some time aside to say, you know what, focus time at home and rest is not only a biblical principle, but it's an essential principle to performing at my peak performance. Yes. And one of the things when George took that sabbatical after getting burned out in ministry, the church actually grew because sometimes we think that we it's our efforts. Appreciate you. But he was afraid.

That's the thing that kept. Him not wanting to take his hands off of it or to put it down because he felt like he had to or things will fall apart. But God really revealed that it's God, it's his call, it's his purpose. And in whatever we're doing, we have to know that God is a part of it and he's ordering our steps. And it's okay to take breaks and it's okay to rest.

And God's got it, he can fill in the gaps. Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. That's great. We talked earlier about being on the same team.

But what are factors that lead couples to feeling alike they're not on the same team? Yeah. Yes, I know for George and I, we were just so different. Like, so our differences caused us to not feel like we were on the same team. I was trying to force him to be like me.

He was trying to force me to be like him. And as long as we kept trying to force each other to be like the other, it just kept us in conflict and at odds. And so once we realize, oh, it's about. us influencing each other. And we like to say that your spouse is God's provision for you.

That means they do bring something to your life that you don't have. And so we need to receive the gift of God in our spouse from our spouse that God gave us. Yeah, in a practical way, Chandra and I, we're very different when it comes down to getting to places on time. And I'm sure some of your listeners right now are patting their wife's leg or just saying, hey, you got to listen to this with me. And so my dad taught me this.

He taught me to be on time was to be 15 minutes early. But somehow my wife was raised in a household.

Well, you know, fashionable, you can be 15 minutes fashionably late. Everybody gives you a grace period, right? That's right. And so we started off in our marriage with a 30-minute difference, right? And Dr.

Chapman, I couldn't be late to church because this was an old school church where we processed in with the choir as the pastor. And so I often told her, Listen, I can't come in 15 minutes after church has already started. And so we had to learn that our differences worked out in other areas as well. Tandra taught me in her, because I called that living in the grave, being 15 minutes fashionably late. She taught me how to take vacations or to prioritize family time or to prioritize being at home and resting.

And for her, I taught her as an A-type. Or getting to places on time is how to be goal-oriented, goal-oriented. And because of that, she was able to not only start her practice in Times Square, her private therapy practice in Times Square, but it was one of the top private practices in all of New York City because of the goals that she set. And so, our differences sometimes make us feel like we're not on the same team, but actually our differences help bridge our gaps together so that we can be a better team. And I think that's the great mystery of marriage is how do you take these two uniquely God-designed individuals and then God calls you to become one.

And we believe this is how we're supposed to become one and we change each other and we evolve and then we're more well-rounded as a couple. Yeah. That whole thing of being on the same team and Working through our our differences identified with the time thing. My wife and I had the same thing. I like to be there early.

She thinks being there early is, you know, ten minutes late for me. That's right. My people. Yeah, yeah.

Well, another whole issue is trusting trusting each other. What are some of the common pitfalls regarding trust that that couples experience and and how do you advise them? Yes, I think some common pitfalls is, especially since social media has come on the scene, it's created where we have to come up with these boundaries to make sure that we are making our marriage environment a safe space for our spouse.

So how we navigate our social media interactions and relationships and conversations, we need to make sure that we're honoring our spouse in all of that so that this social media has brought in a whole nother element of ways that we can make our spouse feel betrayed or. Make our marriage relationship not feel like a safe space.

So I think that's one of the areas that we have to help couples navigate these relationships online because they seem safe to kind of interact with people.

So we let our guards down, but it's a very dangerous territory.

So that's one of the areas that I think we have to help couples develop a way to build trust in their relationship. Yeah, I think a huge pitfall is that when a violation occurs in the relationship, when there's trust that is violated, right, we somehow think as the violator of that trust that You are supposed to forgive me, and it has to come quickly, yeah, right. And I call it sort of like this microwave forgiveness plan, and that means that means do it now, right? I need it really quick, as opposed to trust is easily broken, it's easy to lose, but it's hard to build and regain trust. That's right, that's right.

And so, when we guard that trust as this is a very important part of our relationship, and if I violate it, I have to give you time enough to forgive and to move on or to extend the grace, but it has to happen over time. It's not something that's microwave really quick, and that's what I feel like is a big pitfall in our society when we deal with trust. Oh, I think you're exactly right. Forgiveness kind of opens the door to trust being reborn, but it takes time for trust to be reborn. You're right.

Let me ask this question. Is there any advice in the in your book, The Marriage Game Plan? that might surprise Uh uh the readers. Yeah, I think the number one for me is that it's really not so hard to get a game plan, right? And how we've done this in the marriage game plan book is that every chapter has, at the end of the chapter, it has a putting it in the practice section.

And that's just where couples can answer questions and do couples' activities and even scan a QR code and you get five minute lesson from the coaches, which is George and Tundra, Gregory, yours truly. And if couples really do this interactive experience together, by the time that they get to chapter 10, we help them walk through how to put together their very own unique marriage game plan. We've had hundreds of readers read and just say, wow, we never knew how easy it was with a coach and a guide that can help us to get on the same page, head in the same direction and talk about hard issues, but have it be fun because we're working on it together. Mm-hmm. I th I think that's one of the positive things about the book that you have that uh possibility.

There's a concept you call Victory Mondays. What is a Victory Monday? Yeah, well, Victory Mondays in sports, it could be the day after any win, but let's say NFL teams play on Sundays. If the team wins, the players are ready for the coach to say Victory Monday, because that means we get a day off. But what starts that day off is not just running out of the locker room and just going home, but what starts that day is guys are so excited that they begin to high-five each other in that locker room and they point to each other and they say, Thank you for that hit or thank you for that assist.

And what they're really saying is, I saw what you did. I appreciate you. And what we internalize that for in our marriage is that if we can put together some times in our week, we call it Victory Mondays, but Victory Monday could be on Victory Friday, Victory Saturday, just sometime during your work week where you can point out to your spouse where they have helped you, assisted you, where they have affirmed you or have helped you in a great way.

Okay.

And we've become so pros as couples at pointing out when our spouse does something wrong that we try to do this to offset pointing the finger. We now point the finger at what they do right and not just at what they do wrong.

So Victory Mondays is a great way to express to your spouse: here's how you've helped elevate me. Here's what you do for this family. And I think our spouse will respond to us much easier when they can know that we're pointing out more what they get right than when they get stuff wrong. Yeah. And I think being intentional about that is really important because I do think it's easier.

It's like our mind just automatically goes towards all the negative, all the problems. And then over time, when we're focusing all the negative and all the problems, then we start to feel like our marriage is negative, our spouse is negative.

So it's really important to make sure that we're intentional about pulling in the positive to give that balanced view. view of what's really going on. George and Tonda, this is so good. And I've gone through the book and it's giving me ideas, you know, in places where I'm deficient. But I want to know, as you deal with professional athletes, How much of the problems that you see in their marriages come from the patterns that they had growing up, from either the male or the female in that equation, from their home of origin that they are kind of living that out today.

Yeah, I think that's a very great question. And I don't think pro sports players or coaches, they're any different than the average person, right? Many of us, we get our view of marriage or our concept on how to be a good husband or a not so good husband by the model that we have seen in our homes or the lack thereof, right? And so for many players that we come into contact with or when we were living in New York City, Many couples decided to live together and not commit to each other, although that's a form of committing to each other. They didn't want to commit at that level of marriage because they did not know how to do it.

They didn't have a model, a successful model, in which they could say, we could emulate that. But through pre-marriage counseling or helping people develop their marriage game plan. What we learned is that the light bulb turns on when you can show them examples. Maybe they didn't see the example growing up, but they can see a real life example of, wow, you guys have intense fellowship and you guys are still able to honor each other or to love each other. You don't have to walk out on each other.

You don't have to throw in the towel when it gets too hot. We feel like it's a practical way for you to say, when you can show them a model, then they can say, let's emulate that. And players know this all too often because they have players on that field that they want to model their game, whether it's catching or whether it's jumping over people or whether it's giving an assist. They model that. And when they can get a model, they can follow through with that in their everyday examples.

And the same is for couples. We know this, is that when couples have a game plan, when they have a model, when they have something that they can say, we're going to work towards this, it becomes easier because they've got a model. Yeah. Yeah. And I.

would just add that No matter where you came from. Or where you are right now, you get to decide where you're going. I didn't come from a two-parent home. I was raised by a single mom. My dad was not in my life at all.

I never saw how a husband and a wife interact together. But I was able to learn how. to do those things. I was able to read books, study, get education. You're a champion at that now.

Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Yes. So I just want to encourage anyone that you're not out of the game just because you came from a, you know, broken, fallen situation. You get, you can still have what everybody else has.

Yeah, that's a good word.

Now toward the end of the book, you help couples tackle tough conversations. Why is avoiding difficult topics not a good idea? Avoiding difficult topics is not a good idea because it just keeps. getting more twisted and convoluted and more hurt and more pain above. And then you still are going to have to have the conversation anyway.

You're not going to get away from it. It will have to come out at some point. I remember one of the stories that we share in the book about when George went back to divinity school. He went to Duke Divinity School. And I was the primary person working and bringing in income.

And I was just, you know, stealing from the savings every month because things weren't adding up.

Well, you weren't stealing. You were taking from the savings to pay bills. Yes, I was taking from the savings to pay bills. Not unless this is confessional. No, no.

I was putting it towards bills. They're true. And the shame and guilt as this deficit kept growing and growing. And I was just like, I'm going to put it back. I'm going to put it back.

He doesn't have to know. I don't want him to be stressed. I gave myself all the reasons to not have this conversation. until it got so bad. I had to have it and it was worse by the time I sat down to tell him, how did we get here?

And so there's never a good time. I mean, it's never feels like a good time to have the conversation.

So you might as well go ahead and have it up front because then once it came out in the open, then now it's both of us working to get this problem resolved and not just me isolated on my own dealing with something internally by myself.

So yes, please, we like to say nip it in the bud is one of those first steps when we talk about resolving conflict. Yes, yes. What's a positive way to begin a tough conversation?

Well, you got to begin with the end in mind, right? And so if you're heated, if you're fuming, we call it the incredible hoax syndrome. If you're turning green, that's probably not the time to bring up a tough conversation, right? Maybe put some distance in between your anger and just think about what you want to say. Maybe it's writing your thoughts down.

And also consider not making you statements, but make more I statements. For instance, like I feel this as opposed to you makes your spouse feel attacked. And so I think the startup is really key. And also that you do have the conversation. I love that question because there's so many people think if we don't talk about the big issues, that they just go away.

The unfortunate part is they never go away. They're always staring at you in the face. And so Tandra and I over the years have. We've had some tough conversations that were needed to be had. But what I tried to do for her was some of those was just prepare her heart.

And so I would say something like, hey, on Thursday night, I'd love to spend some time with you. And I got a few things I'd love to share. And maybe it's not going to be such an easy conversation. But what she took from that for me over the years, at least is what she told me, was that she loved the way I tried to prepare her heart. That it's not going to be a regular conversation.

It could be a tough conversation, but she was able to prepare herself. And that's the thing I love about our marriage: when we try to come together and we know that we're on the same team, even though it's a tough conversation, like Maximus said in the gladiator, whatever comes out of these gates, we got a better chance of survival if we stay together. And that's what we like to do with our tough conversations. Yeah. And just to add on to that, it's once.

George was able to set that. Tone for the conversation. And this is just the other side. I knew that I had to come into that conversation open-minded. I say, put my big girl pants on and be able to hear some tough things because I want to hear those tough things because I want to meet his need, or I want us to be able to get through tough issues.

So it's about two people coming together, ready to tackle something together with the right mindset and the openness and determined not to become offended, determined not to attack, but just come and. get that safe environment to talk about something tough. Yeah. So important to learn what you all have just described.

Well, as we come to the end of our time, I want to ask this question. Talk to the spouse who's listening who feels very little hope for their marriage. It feels like divorce is inevitable. The other spouse doesn't want to work on the marriage. What do you say to that person?

Mm-hmm. Well, I'd just like to encourage that particular person that marriage, sometimes we think of marriage as 50-50.

So, if we're not getting it from our spouse 50%, then we don't want to give our 50%. We say marriage is 100%, 100, and that is we need to be all in. And so, I just want to encourage whoever that is out there to you still do your part. You still do your part as that husband or that spouse and show love, show forgiveness, show compassion, because we believe what the Bible says is true. That if we keep sowing, that we're going to reap that harvest.

That maybe your spouse is ill-intent on committing to the marriage or working on the marriage. But if you do your part, we believe that God's going to open a window to soften that spouse's heart.

So, just be all in, continue to just be encouraged that if you can somehow show that love, that mercy, that compassion, that patience, that couple sometimes or a spouse will come around in the end. We've seen that happen. time and time again in couples relationships. Yes. And it's not about trying to force that person to come along.

Just know that God is the only one that can really touch their heart.

So through prayerful movement and the things that George is talking about, continue to do your part. And you may have to get professional help with that part because hopelessness comes from, I don't believe this can get better.

So I'm hopeless about the situation. But hope can come from, oh, I learned something new. We had a couple that we worked with in New York City that was living together for 10 years. The female wanted to get married, but the her partner did not. And so, when they came through our pre-marriage course, he proposed by the end.

And I said, Well, what made the difference? He says, Oh, I just never saw myself as a husband. I didn't know what it was to be a husband. But once I learned what it was to be a husband, I was like, Oh, yeah, I can do that. And so, it gave him hope for being married and being a husband.

So, it's about getting that hope stirred up in your partner as well, but not forcing them to control them. Yeah, we often say, Dr. Chapman, that don't die. in a sea of lifeguards. There's so many there's so much help out here for marriages, whether it's through your resources or through our resources or the plethora of opportunities that the America has or the world has.

And we'd like to say to that one spouse, don't die in a sea of lifeguards. There's professional help. There's help out here for you. And with professional help, there's some things that you never thought you could do because you didn't know how that a professional will come alongside of you and not only show you how, but walk you through this step.

So there is hope beyond what you see on a daily basis.

Well, I want to thank you, George and Tandra, for being with us today and for writing this book and for working on your own marriage so that you can now help others, okay?

So keep growing and keep helping others. God bless. Thank you, guys. God bless you. I feel like we've had a pep talk.

I feel like somebody's come on the sidelines where every married person has said, what time is it? Game time. Here it is. And if you're ready for the marriage game plan, developing a winning strategy for marital success, we have it linked. Go to buildingrelationships.us.

George and Tundra Gregory have been with us today. Again, go to buildingrelationships.us. And next week, if you're an overwhelmed mom. Don't miss practical help and hope. Jamie Erickson joins us in one week to help quiet the chaos for every overwhelmed mom.

Don't miss it. Before we go, let me thank our production team Steve Wick and Janice Backing. Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry at Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.