I Choose Love | Chip Ingram

My prayer is that this book could be a guide to realize I'm going to quit whining complaints. complaining, asking God why, and I'm going to choose love. I'm going to be an agent of grace because he's done it for me. Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" .

Today, teaching pastor and CEO of Living on the Edge, Chip Ingram, pushes back against the current cultural narrative about love. He believes you can choose to experience it, and he'll talk about that today. A featured resource at buildingrelationships.us is Chip's latest book, I Choose Love. How to love your neighbor as yourself. Just go to buildingrelationships.us.

You'll find out more right there. And Gary, I think with all you've written about the topic of the love languages, you are really going to resonate with Chip's ideas in this book. Listen, I am excited about our conversation today, and I know this book is going to help our listeners, so I hope they'll just stay with us. This is going to be a fun time. It's going to be a meaningful time.

Well, if you don't know Chip Ingram, let me tell you, he is teaching pastor and CEO of Living on the Edge, pastor for more than 30 years. He's the author of a lot of excellent books, including I Choose Joy, Yes, You Really Can Change, and Holy Ambition. A featured resource today, as I said, is I Choose Love, How to Love Your Neighbor as Yourself. You can find out more at buildingrelationships.us.

Well, Chip, welcome back to Building Relationships.

Well, Gary, it's great to be here with you and Chris. What a privilege. Can't wait to jump into this conversation.

Well, I've said through the years, and I've written, that love is the most powerful force in the world. From looking at your new book, I think you might agree with me on that. 100% and um when you understand what love really is and when by God's power You exercise that. It really can change any relationship. Yep.

I I believe it. I believe it.

Well, let's get a good definition of the word love because people love iced coffee, they love a new movie that's out, and I love a lot of other things.

So when you talk about love, What's your definition? The kind of love I'm talking about is love is giving another person. what they need the most. when they deserve it the least, At great personal cost. I'm talking about an agape or a God kind of love.

That Gary, I believe, is the foundation. If people could picture sort of a pyramid, if you will, and the very bottom layer would be this agape, unconditional, volitional love. And then on top of that, when that's there, then God teaches us about how to experience that through family love or storegate love, and then through friendship love. And then he wants us to experience that with the opposite sex in a very romantic, sensual, sexual way where that unconditional family friendship love culminates in Eros love, which unfortunately has kind of redefined all of love in our day. But we're talking about the kind of love that regardless of our feelings, Is given by God's power in such a way that it transforms all the other kinds of love.

Yeah. It's basically the kind of love God has for us, right? When the Bible says God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that word. Love there is agape love. That's the kind of love we're talking about, Gary.

Yep, yep. I found it interesting that you include a list of popular songs through the years in this book. Talk about those songs about love and what you learn from their lyrics.

Well, you know, I was doing a little, you know, Googling around and You know, I thought about, okay. I know I want to talk about love and the kind of love that really changes things, but I wanted just to get a feel for how do people see love. And it is amazing. I mean, the number one word used in any song is love. And the love that's in all these songs is really focused on I got a habit.

I need you. I can't live without you. Or I've lost it. My life is terrible. I don't know what I'm going to do.

And whether it's Motown or whether it's popular, or I went back and I actually discovered.

Some of the oldest songs in the history of the world. And they're about either finding the right one or losing the right one or wishing you had just one. And I wanted to go through and help people understand that we've been so inundated by songs, music, videos, romance novels, Hallmark movies. And I'm not saying that this kind of love is wrong. What I'm saying is it has taken such center stage.

That Our emotions and our feelings and love has almost been blended into one thing. And they ride the roly coaster that goes up and down. And if you believe that how you feel is the real determiner of love. You find it, you lose it, you're heartbroken. And you're a victim of waiting for that right person to come into your life, or in so many cases.

When those feelings begin to wane, and they do, well, I guess I'm with the wrong person. I need to find someone new.

So Gary, it's created a cycle of broken relationships, unrealistic expectations. An incredible pain. And we're here to talk about a kind of love that can repair that. And that's why I'm so excited to be here with you.

Well, I can certainly identify with what you're saying, because that that is the common perception of love.

So the title, I choose love. challenges the idea that love is something that merely happens to us and we have little control over it, which again is talking about that whole I fail in love, you know.

So explain why you believe that love is something we choose to experience even when we don't feel like it.

Well, I think one of the things if we look at the loneliness, the anxiety, the alienation, all the kind of things that the researchers and popular culture is telling us. There's this very Very subtle thing where now people are victims. They didn't talk to me. They didn't accept me. They didn't take initiative.

I don't have any in my life. No one loves me. I don't have that romantic person in my life. And so I'm. I'm waiting or I'm trying to make myself look.

So I'll be attractive or I need to accomplish things to get people to love me. And so what people are, they kind of have this victim mentality and they're waiting for. You know, that hallmark moment when you're driving in your car and you stop at a stoplight and you look over and you see that other person and your eyes meet and something happens and that's the beginning of a movie. And the fact of the matter is, is that rarely, rarely happens. And if it can happen that fast with someone you've met, never met, it can go away just that fast.

And so I choose love is where you have agency. where if love is a choice, if it's a volitional act to be kind, a volitional act to forgive, a volitional act to accept someone, a volitional act to agree, to disagree. If it's actually giving and serving and caring for another human being. before anyone cares about you. And obviously, you can only do that through the power of Christ, but that gives you power.

That allows you not to wait. You can choose. To love your mate. You can choose to love a friend. You can actually, commanded, you can actually choose, it looks different ways to love your enemies.

And God makes this phenomenal promise, Gary. Love never fails. And to talk today with a lot of people who are hurting and struggling and have, quote, fallen out of love or have problem relationships. And, you know, I know your ministry cares for so many people. One of the things we do is we invite them to write us.

And we have every Monday, we divide all the requests among our whole staff. And then we break down in groups of three on Zoom all over the country and parts of the world. And we pray through these requests. And Carrie, I mean, it's, we've got cancer. My son doesn't talk to me anymore.

I lost my job. My daughter isn't walking with the Lord anymore. Our church blew up. Our small group, they don't talk. I mean, you go down through it and you realize there is such hurt and such pain.

We can choose love. God wants to see reconciliation and healing occur.

Well, I know, Chip, that you have counseled couples who have lost connection with each other and seem to be just living separate lives. What hope do you have for people in a relationship like that?

Well, this is maybe a little embarrassing, but The hope I have is I've been that person. And we were only married about six months, maybe eight. And we put everything in one of those rider trucks and went across the country to start seminary. And my wife came from an alcoholic home, and I came from an alcoholic home. Boy, we did marry our dating the way you're supposed to.

And we both love God, we both deeply loved each other. And Gary, within seven or eight months, we didn't realize we had such baggage. We didn't realize we couldn't resolve conflict. We didn't know how to communicate. And then we just kept wounding one another.

And we found ourselves not much a year into a marriage in seminary, learning how to preach and teach and love other people. And I mean, hurting one another. I didn't want to be around her. She would get mad and hurt and wouldn't talk to me for two days. And, you know, I was the biblical one.

So I would walk around the bed at night and say, we can't go to bed until we get this resolved. And I'd be quoting verses. And I mean, it was so painful. And it got to where. We both just were in these parallel lines living in the same house.

and we made a covenant with God so we knew divorce was not an option. but we couldn't get out of it and so by god's grace A professor hooked us up with a very good Christian counselor who'd been a pastor, was very biblical. And he began to unpack for us, you know, what some of those issues were. And Gary, I have to tell you, as I got so wounded, and we do this to each other. I didn't want to be close to her anymore.

I'm feeling like, oh, yeah, I'm stuck. Divorce isn't an option. How we're experiencing life, this is not a long-term option. I don't know what to do. And I'm learning I'm supposed to listen and be sensitive and use I feel messages.

And I just didn't want to. I was like, I was so hurt. And I'll never forget, you know, in my mind, is: look, there's three things she keeps doing. If she changes them, then we would get along. And I think she felt like, well, there's five things he keeps doing.

And if he changes, then we'll get along. And we were at a stalemate. And I'll never forget, you know, going through this really good counseling. And I was so wounded, I came to. Lauren I wish I wanted to work on this, but I don't.

But I can obey. I know that you love Teresa deeply. And so right now, I can't do this for her. But If putting her needs first and why that has anything to do with taking out the garbage and helping out around the house or stopping to interrupt her and really listen, I don't get how that anything to do with love. I can't do that for her, but because you've done that for me, I'm going to choose to love her in that way, even though I don't feel like it.

And I'd love to tell everyone, in three days she jumped into my arms and everything was perfect. But I'm going to tell you the truth. What it was, is I began to do that, and she was learning the same thing. And we chose to communicate love in a way in a language, if you will. that the other person understood when neither of us felt like it.

And as we chose to do that, healing started to occur. the emotions came back, the connection came back, and everything from family love to friendship love to Eros love became the foundation of our relationship. But it was a choice. And that's why I believe, I believe there's hope for any couple because, one, the Bible says it first and foremost. But second is I have been where If I could have gotten out of the marriage, I would have.

And that's why I'm so glad that we didn't bank on our feelings, but we made a covenant. And that means you don't break it. And I'm so, you know, I got 47 years under my belt now, and I'll tell people, and it's not like it's been perfect. But I've got four grown kids that wouldn't be where they are today and 12 grandkids. And I have to tell you, after 47 years, I'm in perhaps the sweetest season.

Of marriage I've ever had. And so it's possible. And I just want to. Give hope to people. I can identify with everything you've just said.

It parallels my experience, too. I've been there, too, because two weeks after we got married, I enrolled in seminary, too, and went through things similar to you're talking about. Oh, man. Memo, to those of you thinking about seminary or ministry. Give your marriage a little time and work on a few things.

We put everything in the car like a few months after we got married. And I mean, oh, brother, it didn't was not the right place to go at the right time, but God was gracious. Yep, absolutely. Chip, your book I Choose Love is rooted in Philippians chapter 2. Talk about why this letter by Paul is so powerful and what it says to our culture today.

Well, I think first of all, his personal circumstances were dire. You know, we have a lot of people that are under pressure and anxiety. I mean, there's wars that are going on. There's economic issues. And so those complicate relationships.

So he doesn't know whether he's going to live or die. And he talks about that perspective in chapter one. And then chapter two, he's talking to a group of people that are getting some external persecution and pressure, but also there's division inside the church. There's a couple of women. I mean, when you write a letter and call people out by name, it must have been pretty significant.

And so in the midst of that, what he's trying to help this little church do is learn how to love each other. And so he opens chapter two with reminding them: here's all the things you have in Christ. You have hope now. You have love now. You've got a connection.

He kind of wants them to remember all this happened. Because of what Christ has done for you. And he reminds them, you got it right. And then he shifts gears. And he says, have this attitude in yourselves, which was also in Christ Jesus.

And then chapter 2 gives us perhaps the pinnacle or the climax of theology in the entire New Testament, where it talks about what Jesus did leaving heaven. Taking the form fully man, fully God, of a bondservant, being obedient even to death, death on the cross. And this process of humbling himself, of being a servant, of being downwardly mobile, that humility is the core of how relationships get restored. And so he says, follow Christ's example. And that example is what heals relationships.

And so we'll walk through that and we'll see what he modeled was a very specific game plan, if you will, about how he could love us even when we were unresponsive. And that example is for each one of us in our relationships. Oh, it's that example. that really touched my heart in those early days of our marriage. I'm with you, man.

I'm resonating with what you're saying.

So so in your book, you organize biblical love around four characteristics. You say love gives? Love serves Love obeys and love cares. Why did you choose that framework?

Well, you know, I tend to just teach through books of the Bible and when I maybe a section or often it's a chapter and as I go through it, I realize this was the answer. To a really big problem, to a regular group of people in the first century. And then what I try and do is say, okay, if that's the answer, what are the timeless principles? And so I kind of play a game I call spiritual jeopardy. If that's the answer, what is the question?

And then as I studied right through Philippians chapter 2, And saw that the goal was to help people love and that Jesus was the example, then as you go through the passage, what you realize is the first and foremost thing that Jesus does is he gives. He cares. His attitude was other centered. I'm going to give. And then the way he gives, it says he became a servant.

I mean, here he's worshiped in the myriad of angels and in the beauty of heaven. And he lowers himself and he serves. And the word there, not just a servant, but the lowest servant. And then, as a servant, he's willing to obey whatever the plan is. of the Godhead.

Even to the point of doing something, he doesn't, he's human. He emotionally doesn't want to go to the cross. Father, if there's any other way, nevertheless, not my will, but yours, he obeys. And so he serves, he gives, he obeys. And then you have this picture where Paul so cares about them.

He sends Timothy. And Timothy so cares that he puts other people's agenda ahead of his own. And then the final little picture is one of their church members risks his life and almost dies for the sake of the gospel to serve Paul and serve the church. And so those four big things are really the example of how Jesus. descended into greatness in modeled humility.

that has the power to unleash supernatural love. in any relationship. And that's where the outline of the book came from.

Well, he certainly demonstrated it all, that's for sure. In the section on Love Gives, you discuss the platinum rule. Explain that concept. But you know, every now and then, you know, you just kind of make something up.

So I kind of made this up. And so it's right from scripture. But, you know, there's the golden rule, right? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And of course, Jesus taught that on the Sermon on the Mount, multiple world religions.

If life was about just making things go a little bit better, that's really important. But the Apostle Paul kind of puts it on spiritual steroids. And he said, of course, we want to treat others the way we want to be treated. But he says to this group and to us, the platinum rule. is treat others the way God has already treated you.

So, God has already been forgiving to you. God has already extended mercy to you. God has already accepted you. God has already blessed you.

So, since that's what's already happened to you. What I want you to do is treat other people the way God has already. Treated and acted toward you. And so, what this does is instead of sort of a transactional, well, they did this to me, I'll do that for them. Or if I want them to treat me this way, I guess I should treat them that way.

It raises the bar to say, I need to give away what I've received from Jesus. And again, now you have agency. Then, as you take those steps, when you see with new eyes, when you, in small, even baby steps, to begin to treat and to speak and acts of kindness to other people the way you've received it. It transforms relationships, and candidly, it brings great joy to the one who does it. Yeah.

So waiting on the other person to change before we act is not what God did for us. That's what I hear you saying. That's exactly right, Gary. And I wonder how many I mean, you've counseled so many couples and you're Your books have been such not only encouragement to me, but they're assignments when I counsel couples. And you know, when you sit down with a couple and you know, of course, you start and you hear each story and you know, he has a side and she has a side and And when she realized the stalemate back in my own story was I'll change, you know.

I'll start leaving the family when she becomes more affectionate.

Well, I'll become more affectionate when he starts leaving the family. And, you know, when she stops spending so much money, then I'll start. And it becomes this waiting for the other person to act. And you can break through that. And I would just I would just say to Just in my mind, in my heart right now, Gary, I think of people that are driving in the car or on a treadmill or walking and they're just listening to us.

I would just say, what would it look like for you to stop waiting for your mate or your boyfriend or your business partner or that person that betrayed you to kind of apologize and own their part of it? What would it look like? If you took the initiative to say, Because of what I bought or received, of course, they don't deserve it, but I'm going to give it because I didn't deserve it either. I just had this picture, Gary, of relationships all across America and well beyond wherever people listen to your podcast. And that light coming on and saying, I'm getting off this treadmill.

As soon as I stop this car. I'm going to make a phone call or a text and line up a meeting, and I'm going to take the initiative. Can you imagine what would happen?

Well It would be amazing. It would be amazing. Amen. But it's so unnatural. That's why we need God's help, right?

That's exactly right.

Well. You note that many have an innate desire for greatness, for significance, for accomplishment, and you believe that the path to greatness is not down that road, but it's servanthood. Explain that.

Well, again, I was uh I was teaching the passage and it says, have this attitude, which was in Christ Jesus.

Well, what was this attitude? He considered others more important than himself. And I was thinking about, you know, I've never met someone who says, you know, I'd like to be a mediocre husband, or I'm going to go into training because I'd like to go to the Olympics someday and finish fifth. I mean, I mean, or I'd like to be a lousy piano player, or, you know, could we build a mediocre company or something? And so, you know, when we really push it, we all have this longing to be great.

And I think from a human perspective, it's interesting. We tend to measure greatness by kind of externals like power, who and what we control, or possessions, you know, what and how much we own or position, our rank, our pecking order, our title, or maybe prestige, like how many people know us or look up to us or follow us on whatever social media or productivity where I live. It's all about what you accomplished and how many patents. And so that's how we measure greatness. And we want to ascend to it.

I'm going to be a somebody someday when I look like this, have this, own this, drive this, enough people understand who I am. And I took those characteristics and I overlaid them. to Philippians chapter 2. And I mean, it was very, very interesting. Um The humility of true greatness, Jesus' mindset toward power and possessions.

He's the most powerful and he owns everything. Although existed in the form of God, didn't regard equality of thing to be grasped. It wasn't like I need that. With regard to position and prestige, He is the most important creator, sustainer. Maker of all that there is.

at the pinnacle of all creation. And he emptied or veiled himself, taking the form of a bondservant, being made in the likeness of men. And then in terms of productivity what did he accomplish It says he was found in appearance. As a man, he humbled himself. become obedient to the point of death, even death on the cross.

And so, in each one of those, you see, he takes what we think will make us a somebody. and he turns it upside down with his kingdom mindset. And he says no to pride, yes to humility. And as he gives his life away. There's this incredible power.

And life and restoration. And then, isn't it interesting that the kingdom way, therefore, we sometimes skip this, God highly exalted him. And put his name above every name, a name that every name will bow, and every tongue confess, and earth, and heaven, and under the sea. And when we humble ourselves, When we say no to pride. When we become a servant in our minds that considering others needs more important than ourselves.

There's like this relational chemical reaction that transforms relationships. And that's the attitude he had that when we emulate, You know, you think of the people you most admire. I mean, when you really think about it, it's... It's not who owns the biggest company.

Now, we may admire what they did or what they've accomplished, but. You know, you think of Some people who have given their lives for others, who have met the needs of orphans, who have fed the poor, who've done things that we at the end of the day say, wow, they gave their life. And lives have been changed that nobody thinks or cares about. And so I think that's at the heart, Gary, of what it really means to... to walk in love.

Uh Thanks for joining us for the Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman podcast. He's the author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . Our guest today is author and speaker Chip Ingram. You can hear him on the program, Living on the Edge.

We're talking about his book, I Choose Love, How to Love Your Neighbor as Yourself. Find out more at buildingrelationships.us or go to fivelovelanguages.com. You know, Chip, we were just talking about the whole matter of an attitude of serving other people. And that's really the heart of what the Christian lifestyle is all about. Why do you think it's so hard for us to have the attitude of serving others?

This will sound kind of cruel, but I think it's pretty accurate. We're selfish by nature. I mean, even. When the Spirit of God takes up residence in us, you know we're a brand new person he's given us a new heart he's sealed us with his spirit But there is a journey of saying yes to him. And it's interesting when the Apostle Paul says, have this attitude.

Then the attitude you describes is: do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind, regard one another as more important than yourself. I mean, I mean, think of the implications there. It's declaring war. I mean, we all think, oh, yeah, I'm a little selfish, and we're all a little bit that way. It's different.

Paul says, no, declare war on selfishness. That's not tolerable. And you have to do that. You got to get to the root of it. And the root of selfishness is pride.

He says do nothing from Selfishness and then the next line, or empty conceit. You know, I love the old translation: vainglory. In other words, it's all about me. How many people look to me? The conversation is about me.

Where I go, it's about me. How I drive and who's in front of me. Where I'm going is more important. It's the self-focus, vainglory pride. that we have to crucify and say that's incompatible with being a servant.

I saw it on an advertisement. I think there was a whole social network thing that I remember reading about a few years ago, maybe many years ago, but it was called I Am Second. and then they would interview different people who chose to be second. But that's what it's that mindset. It's sitting down to dinner at a restaurant and saying, where's the best view?

And then sitting. In the place that the other person gets the best view. It's asking questions in a conversation rather than interrupting the person and telling them all the things you want to say. It's this. I am second.

I'm going to consider. your needs and your interests. Not that mine aren't important. But I'm going to consider them first. And I think if we're honest, Gary, when we get around people like that, we sure like being around them, don't we?

I mean, those are the kind of people like, wow. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. You know, that's what really transformed my marriage, is that Philippians 2 passage you're talking about.

Let this attitude be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus. You know, and I remember when I just said I I wept and said, God forgive me. I have not had the attitude of Christ, you know. My attitude had been toward my wife. You know, if you'll just listen to me, we'll have a good marriage, you know.

And I remember after I wept, I just said, God, please give me the attitude of Christ toward my wife. And it it's what transformed my marriage because when I started asking her, you know, what can I do to help you, how can I make your life easier, and how can I be a better husband? Man, you're on the right track here, man. And of course, the scriptures are on the right track for sure.

Well, let's move from serving to the third section of your book. You talk about love obeys. What are you getting at in this part of the book? I want to get to the part that addresses what I think has become. One of the greatest lies that people believe, and I think we as followers of Jesus.

often believe it as much as anybody else. And I think the lie is this, is that If I feel something, my feelings are reality. In other words, I don't feel like loving, and therefore I would be a hypocrite if I do something when I don't really feel like it. And so we make our emotions the definer of reality. And my wife and I are listening to a pretty sharp neuroscientist right now.

And he has a great line. He's a Christian and so well thought of that he makes this line. He goes, feelings are a chemical event that happens in your brain. And in reality, may or may not align with those. And it doesn't mean our feelings are unimportant.

We need to recognize what they are. But when I'm talking about love obeys. The fact is, I often know what love looks like in this relationship. but I don't feel like doing it. And I think it's so encouraging.

And I mean, it's not to demean the work of Jesus or in any way. You know, I've had people tell me, how can you say that Jesus didn't feel like going to the cross?

Well, because he said it. I mean, if he felt like going, he wouldn't be looking for another option. But sometimes we so diminish his humanity. Being fully human, understanding the price, understanding the spiritual rejection, the separation from the Father, grasping physically even what it was going to be like, being humiliated. It was like, do I feel like doing that?

No. But Love obeys. Father, nevertheless, not my will, but yours. And when you shared the story, you know, about your kind of breaking point. With your wife, I remember something very, very, very similar.

And it was this turning point, and there's a little word someone used, and I don't know why, but it was chip. You're transactional with your wife. You want it to work. And yes, you want it to work for her, but you really want it to work for you. And the question I either read or someone shared that struck me in the heart was.

Do you cherish your wife? the way Christ cherishes her. Do you cherish her? And that was a real, and so, well, I don't, I don't feel like cherishing her right now because, no, no, no, I didn't ask you how you felt. Do you cherish her?

Do you, are, are you to her what Christ has been to you? And that That went from How do I do my part? Like, you know, I'll do my part if you do your part. That went to If she doesn't do her part. I'm going to cherish her.

I can't do that on my own. I struggle. I may have a debate in my head, but I'm committing. I think it's like what you said. Look, you know, I got to where I, Lord, can I confess something?

I mean, you know, they joke about women, but I do not understand my wife. How she thinks does not make sense to me. It just does not make sense to me. And by the way, this is where your love language just opened our eyes. It was like, You know, she was doing acts of service.

And I'm going, oh, great. I'm glad we have a clean house and you fixed a nice meal. And mine was, you know, physical touch and words of affirmation. And she was very, very quiet and had come through some very painful things. And, you know, so I'm I'm hugging her and telling her how beautiful she is.

And it's like BB's off a tank. And we were just so missing one another. I had to obey God to love her in a way that made sense to her. That's what I mean where love obeys. Yeah.

The love language gives you information, then you have to choose to express love in their language. Absolutely. Well let's move to another section in the book, uh love cares. Explain that and give some examples of people in the Bible or in your own life who chose to care. And and then what happened?

Well, again, it comes, you know, right out of the passage. And, you know, I was. Studying this, and I realized, you know, sometimes we so spiritualize everything. I have these loving feelings, or I need to do some great spiritual act, or I need to give, you know, thousands of dollars to the poor, or I need to start a non-profit. And the fact of the matter is, is that.

If you really love someone, there's caring acts. And Paul says, because of my deep concern and because I care.

Now, Timothy's with him. And when you're in prison, it's kind of nice to have your right-hand man there. Because I care, I'm going to send Timothy. Because no one cares for you like he does. And the reason Timothy goes is because he actually cares about them.

And then the passage continues, and there's this Epaphoritis guy that was a messenger from the church. He cared so much that he brought a gift from the church. And Paul says, hey, he almost died. I'm going to send him back. And you need to honor people like this.

And I just want to encourage people to kind of use this book as a little guide and discussion where you say, Okay, I want to be a giving person. I want to be a servant. I want to obey. But I want to be the person that brings in three cups of coffee. Or I want to be the guy at work that says, Hey, by the way, I noticed here's bagels for everyone.

Or I want to be the person who walks by and sees trash next to someone's desk. Or and I just pick it, you just care. Or, you know, there's a person outside and they're begging for money. And you stop over and you look them in the eye and you tell me, What's your name? Just what's going on?

And I understand, you know, you don't want to empower people into bad things, but it could you. You want to come in this restaurant? I'd like to buy you a meal and hear your story. We can't do that all the time, but. As you do?

That's where your heart gets connected to God's heart. And one of the things I've done, Gary, that's that's helped me, like you, I travel a lot. And I find myself a lot of airports and often I find myself you know you go into a bathroom and there's usually a person who's fairly old of some ethnic background who often from another country and they're cleaning the bathroom. And you watch people go in and out and it's like they're invisible. And I just started in order to care, I decided because everything's cashless that I keep cash with me all the time now.

you know, some fives and tens and twenties, and I even keep a couple hundred dollar bills. That are in my pocket that say, God, if you want to care for someone, you prompt me and tell me how much. And to stop to that person. And say, hey, by the way, you know, thank you. I just, I just want, you know, Jesus sees what you're doing.

I appreciate you keeping this clean. And this isn't for me and whatever denomination God shares. I give it to him or her. I've had experiences where, I mean, it's such a small way to care and watch them break into tears. That just someone cared.

And I think that's got to be an everyday part of love. Wonder what would happen if all the Christians who fly Did that. Whoa. Or stay in a hotel. You know, that's, I have kids who are servers, you know, at restaurants, and they say some of the people who tip the least or don't tip at all are those who come after church on Sunday.

You know, they don't. And what kind of message is that sent? Not that, you know, you owe people money simply for serving you, but what are they intuiting by that? Uh that's pretty powerful chip. Yeah.

It's really all around us. I find I can be kind of in a church, and you know, especially if you work in a ministry, a Christian organization, and pretty soon. Anything out of practice your heart hardens.

So that practice for me. was I wrote on a card, Lord. I would like you to help me to become a more kind and generous person in some practical way each and every day. And I wrote that on a card, I just would read it. And as I kept reading it, it was like all of a sudden my eyes were seeing.

People and needs, and it doesn't have to be a big thing, it doesn't have to be money, it can be. Stopping and talking, it can be, you know. I started noticing, you know, this lady looks like I'm not sure she's gonna make it to her car. Can I, you know, can I just get you groceries and You know, I'll push that button and stick them in the back for you. And it's not a big deal at all.

But I think it demonstrates care. But also for me, it's like. I'm a vessel of Jesus. I think Jesus saw those things. I think it's him in me saying, I want to express my love and it doesn't mean you always get to share the gospel or there's quote, this huge spiritual moment, but I think caring is the bridge.

to those kind of moments later. Chip, many people live with bitterness and regret due to unresolved relationship conflict in their relationship with others. What do you say to someone who's in that situation today? You know, I'd probably be hopefully a good listener and hear their story so they felt that they I really understood and not giving a quick answer. But my answer would be choose life.

Choose life. Bitterness, regret. It's death. It is, you're a prisoner of your own attitude. It's not hurting them.

I've been there. I mean, I've. I've been betrayed and hurt so badly and had anger fantasies and You know, my stomach was in knots. I couldn't sleep very well. And, you know, I knew all the right things to do.

And um But I think it's it's a it's a moment where You say, I can't live in the past anymore. I am going to choose to forgive them, and then I'm going to go the extra step to free me. I'm going to bless them. And that means starting to pray for them. And yes, I started with help them to repent, show them how wrong they are, have them make things right because they did these terrible things.

But as you keep praying, then God says, you know what, how about Praying that I bless them. How about praying for their marriage? How about praying for their kids? And when you start praying like that, and by the way, obedience. I didn't feel like it.

I didn't feel like it at all. But as You pray. It's hard to be bitter and hate someone and pray for them at the same time. If you can be even semi-authentic. Because if you have a victim mentality, you know, just feel like everybody's putting me down, et cetera, et cetera, you're not likely to be loving other people, right?

No, and we live in a world and a culture that has just amplified that. I mean, if your life's not working out, it's.

Someone should have taken initiative, or it's the government's fault, or they should have taken care of me. Or I've met more than a few people now who.

Sort of epidemic. I mean, when they happen to, I probably have at least four or five relationships of. grown parents, strong, gracious Christian homes, not perfect, but very solid. who have Adults who've now grown up and said, oh, I just realized that I've been in a toxic relationship and I don't want to talk to you anymore and you can't see your grandkids. And then the effort is, well, let's talk about this or I even pay for no, no.

No, you're just toxic. You're just... And it's this Whatever problems they've had, and I say this in a balanced way, there's some super wonderful, good counselors. There's a mode also of counseling out there that all of life is about trauma, and any problem you had, it was probably your parents and your home, and that trauma. And then now you blame that on them.

And what they don't realize is you become a prisoner. and you isolate yourself and you cut off relationships and the victim mentality, you know. The early church was given a letter at a time when they were persecuted and fleeing, family relationships were broken up, they had economic challenges, and they were being dispersed around the Roman Empire. And the command from Jesus through his half-brother James was: in the midst of all these challenges, instead of being a victim, Don't ask why, ask what. Consider it all joy.

When you encounter various trials, knowing this testing of your faith produces endurance and allow the pain, the difficulty, this endurance to have its maturing or perfecting result that you can be. But you're Christ-like. And and that's it see that gives you agency. You know, I'm going to choose my attitude. And, you know, those that have done research about prisoners and prison camps, and it's those who choose, you can't take my attitude away from me.

That Are the ones that make it out? And though I'm a victim, it'll never change. This is so unfair. That line of thinking. Destroys us.

And what I would say, sometimes you got to reach down deep. and then cry out to God and say, I refuse to be a victim. God, there's a way out. I can do all things through Christ. Help me, show me, and find someone that'll partner up with you.

And then you just have to step out and go. Chip, I run into this, and I know you have, where people have been hurt in the church. feel betrayed by a leader or a fellow Christian. How how how does that person fit into what we're talking about in terms of choosing love?

Well, I wish this was hypothetical, but I would just confess the deepest wounds I've ever received in my life have been by other Christians, and especially those that I thought were very mature. and especially those who I've really done significant things with that I fully trusted and then experienced betrayal. And I know what the scripture teaches and I know that Here's the game plan, and it's threefold. When you've been betrayed, you've been hurt by a church. You can blame, you can withdraw, you cannot be in church anymore, and you will lose, lose, lose.

You can do a three-step program. And I'm only.

Sort of joking. Step one is a decision. Decide to forgive them. The root word of forgiveness in the New Testament means to release, to loose. I release this person from me paying them back for what they did.

I take them off the hook and I put them over here on this other hook that's God's hook, and He's just and they'll get exactly what they deserve. But I'm done. I choose, it's a decision to release them, forgive. Second, there's a process, forgiving. And because my emotions will feel like I forgave them one day and not another, and other things are going to come up.

So I'm going to start praying for them every single day. And in my case, Every time before I took the Lord's Supper, I would remind myself, I've already forgiven them. I want you to bless them. And I would actually seriously go on a journey. And in this particular case, I've had a few others, but It was another person involved in ministry, and it was about a year later, and someone came and said, Oh, I was saw so-and-so.

Remember, you all used to be together? And wow, it's going really great. And I smiled, said, Oh, that's great on the outside. On the inside, it was like, yuck, that's so unfair, God. And, you know, to fast forward, I kept praying for this individual and doing what I'm taught about, forgiving.

And then it was two years. And every Lord's Supper, same thing. And then someone came around and shared something very similar. And before I could even think, I actually rejoiced. And I realized Forgive decision.

forgiving process of prayer and blessing them if at all possible You know, sometimes you have to do it from a distance or anonymously. And then forgiven is. You can actually Rejoice that God has done something good for someone who hurt you deeply.

Now you're free. You're done paying. And it is so liberating. in two of these occasions. You know, my experience in Christian circles is People may forgive.

and genuinely but rarely is there real reconciliation. And I'll never ever get one individual called me. He had happened to be in a tragic car wreck, and we lost touch of each other, and it was years later, and he. I mean, they didn't think he was going to live. He said, I laid that hospital bed and I reviewed my life and I asked, God, is there anything?

anything that I need to make right. And I mean, out of the blue, years and years later, I get a call. This guy says, Can I talk with you and Teresa? I said, Well, sure. And I said, no, he goes, I need to do it when I can talk to you both at the same time.

I we gave it next day and I put it on speaker. This guy calls and gave a little of his story. And I mean, it wasn't like, hey, I'm really sorry about what happened. Hope you're okay with it. It was a it was like a 12-step confession.

I needed to talk to you both. This is what I did. This is why it was wrong. This is how I hurt you. I am broken and so sorry.

I wish I hadn't done it. Is there any room in your heart to forgive me? And I'll never forget. My wife just jumped in so quickly. Oh, said the person's name, we've already forgiven you.

And it happened with another situation. And I I don't think that happens until You know, we're not a victim and we choose life. And my prayer is that this book could be a guide for people in those kind of situations. Do you realize? I'm going to quit whining, complaining.

Asking God why, and I'm going to choose love in even the most difficult relationships. And I'm going to be an agent of grace because he's done it for me. Yeah. Well, Chip, I know that there are a lot of folks who have listened to us today who identify with the things we're talking about. I want to thank you for being with us today.

I want to thank you for writing this book. And I want to encourage all of our listeners This is a book that will help you become what God intended all of us to be, and that is loving servants.

So, thank you, my friend. God bless you. Continue to walk with Him. Amen. What an encouraging conversation with Chip Ingram today.

And if you want to choose love, We have a featured resource for you at buildingrelationships.us, the book, I Choose Love, How to Love Your Neighbor as Yourself. Again, go to buildingrelationships.us. And next week, your questions about the love languages and your relationships. Call and leave your message for Gary right now at 1-866-424-GARY. That's 1-866-424-4279.

A big thank you to our production team, Steve Wick and Janice Backing. Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.