Producers' Pick | Dr. Tim Elmore: Gen Z, Millennials get a bad rap

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Visit Circle.com slash Spotify. I'm the biggest fan of the millennials and the Gen Z that you'll ever meet. And this narrative out there that these are these soft and tight little snowflakes that I'm quick to point out, you've never seen them in a firefight in Afghanistan or going to the University of Texas to make a better life for them and their families. These are great young men and women. Do not be fooled by the narrative. They're different than our generation, granted.

But I tell you, my parents, who were part of the greatest generation, probably thought I was a little weak and entitled little snowflake. So I think we need to give these young men and women the benefit of the doubt. Navy SEAL Commander Admiral McRaven, he was in our studio two weeks ago with his book talking about how good, what a great fighting force they are.

And Admiral McRaven's right. I mean, I just love this generation. They're professional war fighters. They could do a multi-dimensional, but 70% of that generation cannot even qualify for the military. So it's not the ones that enlist.

The focus is on the ones that don't. With me right now is Dr. Tim Elmore, a best-selling author. He's got a new book out, a new kind of diversity, making the different generations on your team a competitive advantage. Dr. Elmore is also a founder and CEO of Growing Leaders, an Atlanta-based nonprofit organization. Dr. Elmore, welcome. Thank you.

Great to be with you. So you looked at all the different generations. Notice they're working together. Notice how different they are and say, we have to address this.

Why? Yeah, well, the reason we do is because I think we automatically assume that the goal is just to tolerate each other rather than bring out the very best of each generation. So Gen Z comes in knowing how we might be able to use. How old are they? They would be the youngest team members. They're just graduating college all the way down to middle school.

So we're going to see them for the next decade. So the war broke out on social media first, five or six years ago. The boomers started it by hashtag how to confuse a millennial. You remember the hashtags that went around? And then the millennials kind of fought back on the boomers with OK boomer. Then Gen Z gets into act with Gen X saying hashtag OK Karen.

So Karen is that fictitious figure that's always asking for the manager at the restaurant and telling the high school principal how to do his job. So I think we've just kind of divided ourselves and we're colliding instead of collaborating at the workplace. We're all working together. Yes, at least we're trying. Yeah.

All right. So first off, how would you characterize a baby boomer? Well, baby boomers are often stereotyped as stubborn. I'm one of them.

I've been in my this my 43rd year in my career. So I feel like the greatest gift I can give to the younger generation is some of the timeless stuff that I picked up, you know, work ethic and integrity. And there's a whole bunch of other stuff.

Gen Z comes in new kids on the block. They bring in the timely. Here's how we might be able to market better our company with TikTok or whatever. So quick story.

Tony is a great illustration. This graduated from Ohio University just two years ago. He started a TikTok account while he worked at a part time job, a major retail brand paint store that you would know. Well, while he's posting videos on TikTok, he goes viral. He has one point four million followers, 37 million views. Nothing new with the paint store.

Well, no, no, no. He's mixing paints and realizing maybe we could use it, monetize this. So Tony puts a slide deck together. He's probably 20 years old, puts a slide deck together to show the executives at the company.

But he doesn't get one person interested, doesn't get one set of eyeballs looking at the slide deck. He did get something he didn't expect. He got fired. They were just sure he was doing this on company time or, you know, stealing the paint or something like that.

So Tony moves from Ohio to Florida, now has two million people following him, started his own paint store. So I'll be the first to admit there's a lot of the story we don't probably understand. But one thing is for sure, there were two generations that just didn't understand each other. Yeah. Right. And then you talk about the Xers, Generation Xers. Yeah.

How do you disseminate them? OK, so they'd be in midlife. They're post 40 years old. They grew up in a late 60s all through the 70s, a little bit more jaded, even growing into the workforce, a little more cynical.

The Vietnam War was going on and on television, the Watergate scandal when they were kids. So they'd be a little bit more cynical, but very pragmatic. Their gift is contrarian points of view and pragmatism in the workplace. And what about millennials?

Yeah, millennials. They bring confidence and optimism. So there's an upside and downside. You would probably agree when we were the young whippersnappers, our parents probably thought these kids today, you know, kids today has been said since Socrates.

But if we could look at the other side of the coin and see what what gift do they bring that we don't yet have, we could have something. What you said is interesting is these people that are coming to the workforce now, men and women, are coming in. They don't really need a lot of help because they have their iPhones. They're extremely smart. For the most part, they've gone to a lot of school.

So does that create a swagger rather than receptiveness? Yeah, not in everybody. I don't want to stereotype, but certainly they come in with a high sense of agency because they grew up with a smartphone and it's the first generation of kids that doesn't need adults to get information. Think about that. You know, we used to have talks with dad when we were teenagers because dad knew and that was the only way we knew. Today they got Siri, Alexa, Google.

They don't need dad for that. So they need us for interpretation, not information. Let me help you make sense of all that you've consumed through YouTube. So yeah, swagger comes in high sense of agency. But as you and I talked before, high sense of anxiety. So they bring mental health issues in and want PTO and the boss is going, PTO?

You've been here a week, you know? So we're going to have to figure out a way to listen and empathize and guide them. Why are they more high strung?

Why are they so quick to snap? I think the same smartphone that gave them information gave them too much information. Ninety-four percent of university students in America say the number one word they use to describe their life is the word overwhelmed.

They're consuming 10,000 messages a day if they're on social media and of course email and everything else. Human beings aren't built for that. I don't think our brains are hardwired to take and all of it, most of it's irrelevant.

I don't need to keep up with the Kardashians. I don't, you know, but here it is coming at us. So I think we're going to have to guide them to navigate all that they're consuming and then learn how to redeem it. But do you need to know about AI?

Well, I think so. So, Chet, GBT is this huge issue. So I think centuries ago we needed our muscles to succeed, then we needed our machines in the Industrial Revolution, then we needed our minds in the information age. I think our morals now are huge.

We can do stuff on smart technology that we may not be ready to navigate and that's a concern for me as well. All right, so here's a label, Mike Rowe, who personifies a blue collar man and woman, said this about this new phase that we heard about quietly quitting, where people just slowly bow out. Here's Mike Rowe.

A C plus, a C, you know, it's a passing grade. What is your attitude? What is your philosophy? Have you taken the time to think about your relationship with work, right?

Like to really think about it. Have you made it the enemy? Have you suggested, perhaps, that it's the proximate cause of whatever unhappiness you have in your life?

Most people have. So the idea of quietly quitting, I'm sure, is very appealing to a lot of people because they don't have to step up. So they step out?

Yeah, very often. So quietly quitting is real? Yeah, quiet quitting is a real thing. It's led by Gen Z. In other words, the data shows more Gen Z'ers would be quiet quitting or the great resignation. But let me just give you their angle, right or wrong.

Their angle would be, hey, during the last three years, employers laid off a truckload of us. You weren't loyal to us. Why would we be loyal to you? And while I don't love that adversarial relationship, I think we need to lean it. So the acronym, Brian, that I always use is a leg. This is a leg we have to stand on. The letter A is ask.

I think we need to start with not telling but asking questions, finding out about who they are. The letter L is listen. I think when we listen, they feel heard. I think E is empathize. When we empathize, they feel understood.

Then the G is guide. I feel like I earn my right to guide them through relationship. So I have to stop thinking control and start thinking connect. That's that's what I advise.

Well, I mean, in sports, for example, if you know you're a rookie, you're coming in as a freshman, you carry the balls, you set up the goals. Yeah, that's true. Grab the water, grab the bags. Now, theoretically, you've got a problem with that. Excuse me, treat me equal.

Yeah. Just because I'm young doesn't mean you should be doing that. And coaches might go, well, that's not the way I brought up. That's not the way I run my team. Who has to change?

Yeah, I think we're going to have to meet in the middle. So you're absolutely right when you share that data. The phrase pay your dues is like a cuss word to them. They just don't like that. But you and I both did.

I mean, I remember doing tiny tiny. You don't actually say just do it. Yeah. Hey, I'm paying my dues. You feel like you're on a path. Yeah, it's so true. So when I say meet in the middle, I believe in today's world, they bring timely intuition. We bring timeless wisdom. So every workplace, according to Chip Conley, has modern elders and young geniuses. And if I could see it that way, let me impart to them some of the timeless insight.

But let me get from them the time timely intuition. Dr. Tim Elmore is a best-selling author. His new book is, that's what he's talking about, a new kind of diversity making the different, making the different generations on your team a competitive advantage.

Doctor, what makes you, what makes you such an expert in this area with such a thirst to define this? I started as a teacher in 1979. So this is four plus decades in. And what, grade school or?

Yeah, high school and college both. I was doing my, started my graduate work and I started teaching undergrads. So I saw the late boomers coming through in 1970, 1980, 81.

Then the extras came through. Then millennials came through. Now it's Gen Z. And then the alpha generation are the children behind Gen Z that in a decade are going to be entering the workforce.

They'll be even different. So I feel like it's a new kind of diversity that we need to pay attention to and do the work on in order to get it right. What is the perception of seeing your identity through your work? I identify, and when you lose that job or you retire, people often lose their identity. And it seems like this generation, if I could overgeneralize, and that's what we're doing, you have to, we don't know everybody listening. But to generalize, a lot of people say, yeah, I don't really feel fulfilled.

This is not me. Other people would say, well, I'm a, I'm a miner. I'm into manufacturing, but my fulfillment is going to be my pension. My fulfillment is having a good living, going to a great house, raising three kids. How have we changed the definition of fulfillment?

Yeah. So Gen Z would look at guys like me and say, you live to work. My work has been so much a sense of identity, but I made a decision when I was about 30 years old to never place my sense of identity in something that could be taken away.

I just think that's smart, whether it's faith or whatever, it's gotta be in something that can't be yanked from you. So they see boomers living to work. They want to work to live. I think the key to tapping into Gen Z is to create entrepreneurs, meaning not entrepreneurs, but maybe gig economies within a company where they can start projects and feel like they're beginning something to light the fire of their passion.

While it still monetizes, it still adds value to the work. But I'm telling you, we're going to have to probably practice reverse mentoring on this one. I don't know if you've heard that term, but Jack Welch brought it up way back in the 90s. So reverse mentoring is when an old and a young get together, they swap stories. You always find common ground when you swap stories. But then the older senior veteran is going to impart some insight. Obviously, here's how to succeed here. But then they put on the mentee hat, take off the mentor hat and let that 22-year-old mentor them and how to monetize social media or how we could use the latest app. I think if we're both listening and learning, learning and teaching, I think we're going to have something.

And also how we get our information. I can't tell you how many times I walk into my house to three kids and they don't have the TV on. Yeah. I'm thinking to myself, I don't ever remember walking in my house without the TV on. It was when you leave the room, shut it off. Yeah. Now I'm saying you guys don't want to put that TV on at all. So things are changing.

Very much. In fact, I think the generation gap grew bigger, Brian, as the screens in our life went smaller. Well, it got smaller, but they went from public to private. So when I was growing up back in the sixties, there was one screen, a black and white TV. We all gathered round and watched the Dick Van Dyke show or Andy Griffith or whatever. We laughed together, talked together.

It was a together thing. Now we've all got our own individual screen and we can be in echo chambers with people that talk like us, think like us, vote like us. And we're not, we're not, we're in silos.

And I think we need to break out of those silos. So I think that's important too. You also help sports teams.

Yeah. What resonates with coaches and teams? Well, coaches will often say, I don't understand these rookies. We're working with a number of NFL teams and then a lot of NCAA teams. But listen to this, the seniors, you know, who are 22 are going, looking at the freshmen going, what's up with a freshman?

And I'm going, you're just three years apart. But that's how rapidly change happens. So we're going to have to build bridges instead of walls. Sorry about this cheesy metaphor here. Bridges instead of walls where we're listening to each other saying, you have a superpower. I've got a superpower.

Let's, let's find out what it is. A lot of people are saying, let me just play out the string. It's not going to be my problem. I'm going to be in for another 10 years or I don't have to know all this stuff. I mean, I know a lot of people up until recently, well, hold on to the flip phone.

I don't want to be text all the time. I'm thinking to myself, that's, you're in denial. So you're not a millennial. I mean, what generation are you? I'm a baby boomer.

So how are you staying up? How do you understand the 18 year old? Well, some of my favorite meetings on my, with my team members are with Andrew, who's 30 years younger and with Cam, who's 40 years younger. And I'll be ready to teach and learn, you know, so I'm not thinking control.

I'm thinking connect. We're building a relationship, but I'm asking questions. So I know I've got something to give to them, but I'm earning my right to say that last question, the role of the pandemic in all of this. Yeah.

So the baby home and don't work. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a new day for sure. And I think we're still coming out of it, figuring out what works. We'll go home from college for a year and then go back and don't. Yeah.

Yeah. So there's a gap and it may be a long gap. I feel like the boomers responded when I did the research on this, the boomers responded.

What's this doing to my retirement? You know, but the Gen Z'ers are feeling like, I feel like I've been postponed and penalized. So again, it's only an understanding of the narrative. I think here's what I would say. We've got to start with empathy to get to grit. We need to get to grit, but we've got to start with empathy.

And that's what I'm lobbying for. What do you mean by grit? Well, work ethic. Is that famous book, Grit? Yeah. Yeah. By Angela Duckworth.

Fabulous book. I'm telling you, when I say grit, I mean work ethic, resilience, resourcefulness. That should be in every generation. I agree. Shouldn't there be some fundamentals in every generation? I don't care how old you are. It's timeless, no doubt.

So what should be in there? When people say, I don't want to work past five o'clock. Well, really, don't tell me what generation you are.

I need you to work. That's right. Regardless of your age. Yeah.

Am I right to say that? Absolutely. That's the timeless stuff. It's never going to go away.

I don't care what year you graduate. You're going to need discipline. And it will always be respected. I think so.

Yeah. So the number one thing we do at Growing Leaders is to provide social and emotional learning curriculum. It's image based, but it starts conversations on discipline, initiative, responsibility. And we start this in middle school, high school and college. But I feel like they're getting reading, writing, arithmetic.

But don't you know people at 4.0 GPA and they can't get along with a team member. Absolutely. So we're trying to change that. Right.

Or they're just athletes and they get out. That's right. Wait a second.

I never had a part time job because I've been training all the time. It's so true. All right. Congratulations on everything. Dr. Tim Elmore, best-selling author, pick up his book, A New Kind of Diversity, Making the Difference Generations on Your Team, A Competitive Advantage. Dr. Elmore, thank you. My pleasure.

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