Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at CARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Francis taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody. Welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick.

Let me try it in English here. You're listening to Matt Slick live. I'm your host, Matt Slick.

Today's date is, let's see, April 25th, 2024. I hope you're all having a good time listening so far if you're driving or podcasting or listening at home or whatever it is or work. I know a lot of people do that.

So there you go. I hope you want to give me a call as well. All you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. And if you are interested, you can give me an email.

All you have to do is just send it to info at CARM.org and put in the subject line radio comment or radio question. Real easy to do. I was just looking at some of the comments and questions coming in and we've got a few in there. So yeah, look at that quite a bit, actually. I've gone through a lot of them. I've got to get rid of them once I've gone through. All right. All right. All right. Oh, man, we got stuff happening.

Let's just jump right in. Oh, wait. No, no. Something else I wanted to say. And I can't remember what it is. Man, I hate it when I do that.

Forget it. Let's get on with Derek from Virginia. Derek, welcome. You're on the air. Mr. Slick, how are you today?

Well, I'm hanging in there a little bit melancholy of straplessness with someone named Persiflage, that's how. I got you. I got you. Yeah, I was listening to your show yesterday at the tail end and there was a gentleman on there talking about the flat earth. And I didn't know people will still believe in that. Yeah.

Yes. It's a growing phenomenon and it's problematic. It doesn't work for lots of reasons. Well, I mean, we've got satellites and we've got, you know, Google Earth and Google Maps and, you know, kind of Harvard satellite, you know, to work. It's not an orbit. It's all conspiracy.

In fact, NASA is in cahoots with the power that be for money in order to fake moon landings and also to have their thousands of employees all participate in the great deception. Yeah, it just blew my mind that, you know, I've heard it in the past. I just kind of figured it had gone away, but it's still here. Yep.

Yeah, there's lots of problems with it. Eclipses are one of them, you know, and the model I gave yesterday, a three foot diameter circle and you put a dome over two feet high as an example. And then you flatten the earth out as a map of circular map in the bottom there.

Okay, great. So then that would mean that near the top center of the dome are the sun and the moon, which is supposed to be the same size. And how do you know they're the same size? Because when you look up in the sky, they're the same size. It's really good science there. And so there are eclipses, which means the moon gets in front of the sun.

But if the moon and the sun are up parallel to each other in a perpendicular relationship to the axis of the earth, the flat earth, then how can the moon lower itself down to a perspective and get in front of the sun so that, you know, it can be an eclipse? There's other things. It's just ridiculous.

It really is. Sorry, you can tell I don't like it. Are you there? We lose you.

You still here? Yeah, we lost you for a second. Can you hear me? Yep, I hear you. Sorry. But yeah, I totally agree.

It's a crazy, you know, police. But anyway, the main reason I was calling, me and my wife were talking about different symbolisms in the Bible. And it was kind of cool. We were talking about, like, the rapture and the symbolism between that and the marriage of a man and a woman. And, you know, like how when Christ, you know, comes back to take his bride or whatever, you know, how that symbolizes the bride in a wedding. You know, the bride is white dress and, you know, and the groom is waiting for her. You know, she comes to meet the groom and, you know, like the trumpet sound, you know, is that symbolic of the organ? You know, like announcing the bride and, you know, different.

What's your take on that? Well, it's an actual literal wedding feast that it's playing off of. And so it's using an actuality and using elements of it to represent what's going to happen so that people are familiar with it. So the trumpet is what was there when they go to get the bride. Trumpeters and musicians go along. They go get the bride.

Well, we're called the bride. So it's not a symbolism there. Yeah, and it really goes on quite a bit.

But, yeah, that's where it is. And what about, like, I've heard other people talking about the symbolism between, you know, Adam and Eve in the garden as far as, like, the tree being symbolic of the cross. Is that true? And is that like, and it is like symbolism of the rib that was taken out of Adam's side as being symbolic of Christ's side being pierced. I don't know if you heard that or if that's just something that's like.

No, I haven't heard that. No, I see why they'd say it, but I just don't. I just don't see it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

It just doesn't work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

For me. Yeah, I didn't know. I had heard it.

So it's about the tail end of a message somewhere, and I didn't quite get the comparison there, and it did make sense to me. And I figured, you know, get another thought on that. So, yeah. All right.

That's all I got. That's okay. That's okay. All right, brother. Well, listen, have a good evening and thanks for taking a call. You too, man. God bless. All right. Hey, if you want to give me a call.

Oh, sorry about that. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Christopher from Raleigh, North Carolina.

Christopher, welcome. Hey, man. How are you today? Oh, I'm actually tired. I'm fatigued. Couldn't get enough sleep last night. One of those days, you know. That's okay, though. Oh, man. Sorry. I hope you get a nice nap later.

Oh, that sounds so good. I know it does. So my question is about Calvinism and, you know, free will. You know, I haven't really deep studied Calvinism.

I'm actually like kind of on the cusp of doing that, amongst other theological topics. So I'm kind of like trying to rectify, you know, doesn't Calvinism teach that we don't have free will? No, it teaches we have free will.

Absolutely. It does not deny free will. We have to define it, though. We have to define it, what free will is. And what I tell people is free will is the ability to make a choice that's consistent with your nature and is not forced on you. So this includes God. You see, God is holy. He has free will and he cannot choose to sin. He cannot choose wrong. So free will is the ability to make a choice consistent with your nature that's not forced on you. That's what reform people believe. It's not a big deal.

Interesting, because I thought maybe I misheard one day because I was thinking, I was like, well, that doesn't make sense, because if we didn't have free will, then it's almost kind of like God is a puppet master and that's not who God is. So, OK. All right. I guess I misunderstood.

Real quick, do you have or do you know where any good references are to like learn more about Calvinism? Because I'm very interested. I've, you know, scratched the surface, but nothing really in depth.

Yes. Yeah, I have. I've written on it. You know, I affirm reform doctrine, so I know it very well. And I can stand up in front of a crowd without any notes and teach on it for well over an hour with scripture references.

Both things are saying, I really know it. I've been defending it for over 30 years. I have a masters of divinity from a Calvinist seminary.

That doesn't mean I'm right, but I know it. And so what often happens is people will grossly misrepresent what we call the doctrines of grace. And they're essentially bearing false witness. So reform people, Calvinists, they don't deny free will. They just affirm biblical free will and biblical free will.

For example, look at this. I mean, Jesus was God and he had free will. Right. Would you agree? Right. Yeah. Okay. But Jesus said, John 5 19, John 5 30 says he could only do what the father sent him to do. Wait a minute.

Yeah. If he could only do what the father sent him to do and he had free will, then that means both what it's ordained for him to do and free will are compatible because it's right there in Jesus. So I'll show people this stuff and they just often just reject it. Well, you know, and because they have these weird mindsets, I don't get it. But anyway, if you want information, I have another website where I've written this kind of stuff. There's a lot of stuff in scripture defending it. I have a lot of information on it. Okay.

And it's just simple. Calvinist, Calvinist corner dot com. Calvinist corner dot com. Okay, cool, stellar. And you write anything about Armenian, Armenianism in there?

Not really. The reason I don't is I don't want to cause division of the body of Christ. I'm not out to to attack a group. The reason I wrote about reform theology, also known as Calvinism, is because so many people are attacking it and misrepresenting it and causing division in the body of Christ. And so I've said, no, no, no, that's not our position.

And I was just on three days ago or four days ago, I don't know, talking to a woman online about it. And she continues to misrepresent it. That's not our position. It's not. And if I say, look, I've got a Master's of Divinity from the Calvinist seminar.

Oh, you're just boasting. You know, it's like, excuse me. But the issue here isn't that. The issue is I'm qualified to be able to tell you what it is and you're not getting it right. You know, and they don't care. It's bizarre. You know, it is.

And so, but you'll go to that website, you'll find a lot of information there. And if you accept those doctrines, great. If you don't, that's okay.

Just do it biblically. That's all. Okay. Yeah. All right. One last thing.

Literally one last thing. I don't want to hold you up. So I'm really, you know, because I'm very passionate about theology. I think every Christian should be. But anyway, and I really want to go to some kind of seminary.

I live in, obviously, Raleigh, and there's a southeastern seminary, I think. But I think it. I've heard good things. Yeah, okay. Oh, really? Okay.

Because that's where a lot of people. I don't know if that's the right one. Sorry. I don't know if that's what I'm thinking of, so I'm going to withdraw that. I don't know if it is the right one. But go ahead. Sorry.

Yeah, no, that's okay. But they're like the people that church I started going to, that's kind of where they go. I'm not going because that's where they go, but it's just the one that's in person. Honestly, I don't mind if it's in person or on the web, but it's just something around here because I'm really wanting to go further into the word.

But do you have any recommendations if it is online or anything like that? There's a seminary online in Florida, and it's driving me crazy. I can't remember the name.

Some of my old professors went there. Charlie, maybe you know the name of it. He doesn't know.

Let me do a bit of research and see if I can get the name of one of them. Okay? So hold on, Matt. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages, please stay tuned. All right. Welcome back to the show.

So the producer reactivates the caller. I'll get back in. There he is. Christopher, are you still there?

Yeah, I'm here. Okay, so here I did find the one in Florida. It's Reformed Theological Seminary.

It's in Orlando. It's a good seminary. That's one. And then another one is Southern Evangelical Seminary, and I think that's in the Carolinas. That's what it is. And it's not reformed, but hey, I have a friend who graduated from there, and no big deal.

He's reformed, so they don't dock you for it. So those are the two. And then there's, it's in Nebraska, Kansas City. There's a seminary out there, too, that seems to be pretty good. And one of them uses CARM, actually, as resources and recommendations for reading.

Oh, wow. I can't remember the one out there. Seminary.

Anyway, Southern Evangelical Seminary and Reformed Theological Seminary. A lot of times they have stuff online. You can just do stuff online, and then you have a one or two week thing.

You got to be on site and things like that. You know, it's doable. Okay. Okay, cool. All right.

Well, that's all I had. I appreciate you taking my call, Matt. All right, man. God bless, buddy. All right, you too. Okay, God bless. All right, now let's get to next longest is Horvash, and we'll get to David from Greensboro after that. All right. Horvash?

Wow, interesting name. Hi, yes, that's correct. So what do you got?

So thank you for taking my call. I know that you've spoken about that you believe that you cannot lose your salvation. And so I just, so then can you help me understand in Hebrews, six, four through six, who are they talking about? Who is the author speaking of then? Okay, so the book of Hebrews, guess who it's written to? Who's the book of Hebrews written to?

Who would you think? It's written to? The Jewish people, the Hebrews. Very good, written to the Hebrews, to the Jews. Now, in the case of those who've once been enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift and made partakers of the Holy Spirit, we have a problem.

And the problem is, well, what does that mean? They've been enlightened. Does it mean they've been saved? Was Judas Iscariot enlightened? Yeah, but Judas was never a Christian.

He was never a believer. Well, what does it mean to taste the heavenly gift? Does it mean you're saved? No, it means you've tasted the heavenly gift. What does it mean? It's difficult to discern what it means. A lot of people come in, they just say, oh, it means you're saved. Well, maybe it does. But can you show us that that's what is what it means?

Because you're just saying it. And made partakers of the Holy Spirit. See, man, they're made partakers. That means they're saved.

How do you know? Was not Gamaliel an unbeliever? Did he not get moved by God himself to prophesy?

He did. How about the disciples or Judas? I just used Judas. Was he not a partaker of the Holy Spirit? Is he able to do works and miracles?

Doesn't mean he was saved. And they've tasted the good word of God and the powers of the ages to come. What does it mean to taste the word of God?

And then it says, and then have fallen away. Are these the words spoken of a true believer? Or is it the words spoken of the Jews who were covenantally aware of who Christ was? They had been enlightened. They tasted the heavenly gift, made partakers of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word, the powers of the ages to come.

These poetic kinds of ways of speaking. And then they threw it away. Well, that would make more sense, particularly since it says it's impossible to renew them again to repentance. When people say, well, no, they were repentant, it means that they were saved. Nope, because in 2 Corinthians 7, 10, let's see, 2 Corinthians 7, 10, it's been a long time to quote that one. For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death. There's true and false repentance. So Judas repented, but he was still damned. So this is what's so difficult is when people say this means they lost their salvation, nothing in it says they lost their salvation. It's poetic usage and then you have to figure out what it means.

And it's difficult because these phrases are not used elsewhere. If you said the heavenly gift, it's not found anywhere else. It's been enlightened.

Well, the word enlightened is found in other places, but what does it mean in this particular context? So I'm not trying to obfuscate things, but these are the questions we have to ask. And we don't have good answers to them, so we can't say we should lose our salvation. Got another one?

No, that was actually it. I think that is something I've been struggling with. I've debated it with my girlfriends and they don't believe you can lose your salvation. But this does seem like this person knows the Lord. How about this?

Let me help you out. I'm going to read a couple of things to you here. I'm going to read Ephesians 1, 4, which says, and 5, it says, and He chose us in Him. That's the Father chose us.

That's the elect in Him. That's Jesus. Before the foundation of the world that we would be holy and blameless. Well, the only way to be holy and blameless is to be saved. In love, He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself. So God chose us, right?

He chose us. Now what's interesting is we go to John chapter 6, 37. Jesus says, all that the Father gives Me will come to Me. It does not say all who come to Me the Father will then give them to Me. No, it says all that the Father gives Me, they're going to come to Me.

Because they're a group chosen by the Father for the Son, which is exactly what Ephesians 1, 4 is saying. And He says, and to the one who comes to Me, I certainly will not cast out, for I have come down from heaven not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that all that He's given Me, I lose nothing.

But raise it up on the last day. So Jesus says the will of the Father is that Jesus not lose any. Can Jesus lose any? No.

Why? Because the Father chose Him from the foundation of the world and gave Him to the Son for safe keeping, to redeem. We can't lose our salvation, otherwise Jesus failed. Right. So are you saying then, say for example, one of the Pharisees, Nicodemus, whoever, if they tasted of the Word of God and, you know, partook of the Word of God and tasted the Holy Spirit, if then they decided, no, I don't want this, so then they couldn't be, they couldn't come back to repentance?

Oh, see, that's what the suggestion of it would be. Yeah, you see, that's the catch in Hebrews 6, 4 through 6. They could never be renewed again to repentance. Well, then you've got a problem because you have people who say you can lose your salvation but you can get it back again.

Really? But they don't believe the whole of Scripture. What they want to do, here's the thing, I'm not trying to get on you, I'm just trying to, think about this. We do not get salvation by our goodness. Okay, that's no problem. So here's the question. Do we keep our salvation by our goodness? Do we have to, it's right, do we have to maintain our position with the infinitely holy God by doing the right thing so that we don't lose it?

Then salvation depends on our goodness. Okay, problem. Okay, thank you.

You're welcome. God bless. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. We're going to get to David from Greensboro, North Carolina.

That's where it's from. We'll be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right everyone, welcome back to the show.

Let's get to Dave from Greensboro, North Carolina. Welcome, you're on the air. Hey man, hope you're doing well. Yes sir, are you there? Yes I am, hanging in there man, hanging in there. What do you got buddy? Good, good.

Wanted your opinion on the Orthodox Church, got a buddy that has started going to an Orthodox Church and I've read some stuff on it and I haven't come up with a great opinion so just wanted your thoughts on one. Yeah, it's a false religion and its doctrines will lead to damnation. Okay? And I can back it up. All right? I was afraid of that. Yeah, that's what it is.

Okay? And so it says, justification is accomplished at baptism, the point where a person is granted forgiveness of sins. If it's granted at baptism, they were not justified by faith because the Bible says, having therefore been justified by faith, Romans 5-1. So justification includes the forgiveness of sins and the accomplishment by the imputation of Christ's righteousness to us, Philippians 3-9. So now they're saying justification is accomplished at baptism. Well wait a minute, doesn't the Bible say having therefore been justified by faith?

Yes. Then I ask them, are you justified by faith when you have faith? If they say yes, then why are they saying you get justified at baptism? If they say no, you're not justified by faith, then they contradict scripture. Furthermore, they will say that we come to Christ as sinners and are justified by faith apart from good works. So justification is by faith apart from good works.

I have documentation from these sources where they're saying these things. Okay? Yet, it says baptism and the Eucharist.

Check this out. According to St. Paul, not only loving deeds, but also the sacraments of baptism and the Eucharist are decisive to salvation. So loving deeds, but also baptism.

Okay? So loving deeds, baptism, and the Eucharist are necessary or they're decisive. So in other words, your works, loving deeds, baptism, and the Eucharist for salvation. And also check this out. All this is just so lovely.

Okay? Orthodox Christians throughout their lives receive salvation and renewal through faith, works, and the sacraments of the church. Receive salvation and renewal. So what it teaches is that the graces of God are equivalent to the energies of God that are then imparted to you through sacraments. The energies help you then become more like Christ so that through the process of your life, you become divinized, divine. But they're not saying you're actually God. They're saying you're becoming Christ-like.

And in this process, you end up being saved. In fact, it says, these are from the goarch.org, G-O-ARCH, A-R-C-H, dot org. It's an Eastern Orthodox website that I'm getting that from. I also got stuff from orthodoxbridge.com. But at any rate, this is what it says.

This is at Go Arch. How are we saved? The article. The reception of the gift of salvation is not a one-time event but a lifetime process. St. Paul employs a verb to say, so sedathai, in the past tense.

He goes on. They take things out of context in the future tense. He can think even of justification as a future event and part of the final judgment. So what they teach is this. What I've done is I've gone in with serious discussions with people who are Eastern Orthodox adherents who say they know their theology. And when I debate them, they know their stuff. And so here's some summaries that they have told me. And I've said, I'm going to write these out the way you say them. You tell me if I've written them out correctly.

I put them in the chat room. I read them to them and they say, yes, that's correct. And I've got different ones from different people. One of them is, we participate in the energies of God that will deify us. It means becoming like God, identical to what God is, except in his essence. The identical things are things like immortality, glorified state, which is energized by God in his operations. Then it says, God is working in and through you to do good works, which are perfecting your faith in God. These same works purify your faith and that purified faith brings theosis, which is God-likeness, by which righteousness is obtained.

It is the grace of true faith of Orthodoxy that achieves theosis. And it goes on and on. It's bad. Sounds crazy.

It is crazy. Okay. Well, that's kind of what I'd come to on my own.

I just wanted a little backup on it. I thank you so much. You're welcome so much. And this guy, if he's looking into it, psychologically it will mean that he's already given, he's already assuming the validity of it to some degree. So if you were to tell him it's not, then he's going to resist. And then the more you do something to expose it, generally speaking, the less they become receptive. And this is, of course, a problem.

So what do you do about it? You can ask questions and you read them a quote without them knowing it's a quote. You just say it. And if he says, yeah, that's good or that's bad, now you have something to work on. That's one possibility you can do. And I have stuff written on Karm on Eastern Orthodoxy. I need to expand it.

But also, I would be willing, perfectly willing, to do a phone call with him and just have a nice, polite discussion and go over it. You don't say, here's what it says. This is what the Bible says. Okay.

I mean, volunteering. All right. Are you there? Hello?

Maybe I lost him. Don't know. Okay.

So I guess we did. All right. Let's get on the air with, wow, Matt from North Carolina. Matt, welcome.

You're on the air. Hey, Matt. How are you today? Oh, I'm doing okay. Hanging in there, buddy. Hanging in there.

What have you got, man? My question is, was Adam and Eve created to live forever if they had to eat from the tree of life? Not if they ate. They were created to live forever.

That's the nature. All of us live forever. We don't stop existing because this is what God has ordained for us. Some will live forever in hell and some will live forever in heaven.

So he created them that way. Now, there are theories that go on about had they eaten of the tree of life that they would have remained in their fallen state forever. And that's one of the theories that God says, no, we're not going to have you do that.

We're going to block the entrance. That was my question because he said, lest they eat from the tree of life and live forever. Right.

In the fallen state. Yeah. Right. That's one of the main theories is about that.

Yeah. But regardless if they eat from the tree of life, we were created eternally. Yes, we were created to live forever. And that's what we are.

Nothing in the Bible, though I know people say it does, nothing in the Bible teaches that we stop existing. It's called annihilationism. Right.

And it's bad news. Okay. And there's lots of logical problems to it.

Okay. Yeah, I believe we were created to live forever. I just was, my question was why the tree of life was in the garden and which is in heaven now. The garden is not in heaven, just so you know.

No, the tree of life is. You know, that's interesting. That's interesting. You got me thinking because the tree of life in the garden, there's a tree of life that is spoken of in Revelation. Now, that's really interesting.

Is it the same tree of life in the same context? You got me thinking about that. I'm going to think about that. That's a good comment.

I'm going to look into it. Okay. Well, I appreciate your work, brother. Hey, thanks a lot. Appreciate it, brother. And God bless you.

God bless you. Have a great day. Thanks. You too, man. Thanks.

All right. Hey, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's see, Jason from Arizona. Jason, welcome. You're on the air.

Hey, Matt. 1 Peter 1-3, when he writes about God caused us to be regenerated, I know that most non-Reformed people, they view that as, well, we cause ourselves to be regenerated by believing first, but as Reformed, we know God is the one causing our rebirth. Can you expound on that?

Yes. When people say we cause it ourselves, think about the logic of it. It's like saying when they believe that there is a quality to the ontological essence of faith that has an effect on your soul, and the automatic result of your faith is that this ontological essence, now you're born again. And this is a problem because it actually is the foundation of sorcery, where you do a physical thing here, you know, say words or whatever, and a guaranteed spiritual result occurs. This is dangerous. So what they're saying is they're taking credit for what God causes.

Now when you go to 1 Peter 1-3, the word there in the Greek is anagenao, or anagenakou, and it means to cause, to be born again, to beget, to be regenerated. So when we get back, I'll look at the Greek a little bit more and explain some stuff. So hold on, I've got to break. Okay, buddy. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Jason, are you still there?

Yep, I'm here. Thank you. All right. Okay, so according to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again. He has performed the action. Since the verb is anagenao, which means to beget, to beget again, to regenerate.

And it's useless. Yeah, there it is. And so to beget, okay? Or in this case, born again.

All right. So what the Greek is saying is what's called the aorist active participle. Aorist is the past tense. Active is voice. And in Greek, passive voice is I'm hit by the ball. I receive the action. In active voice, I hit the ball. I perform the action.

All right? So it says he, that's God, has caused us, okay, has caused, which is the aorist active participle. A participle is an ing word.

Walking, talking, eating. So what it's saying in the Greek here is that by his great mercy, it literally is has caused us to be regenerated to be born again. Because you could also say it without using the word caused, but he has then something born again. But you have to have a verb in there because that's what it means, to beget, because it's a verb. So you have to say he has begotten us or he made us begotten. But he's the one doing it.

We're not doing it ourselves. It's not passive voice. So when people come along and they say we do this ourselves, then it would be in the passive voice. We cause ourselves to be born again would be the passive voice. That's not what it is in the Greek.

It's active voice. And the object there is God himself. So it is God who's the one who is doing this, and he is the one who makes us born again. So the ones who have been telling you that could not fight their way out of an exegetically wet torn paper bag if a chain was pulling them out and it was greased.

Okay? So this just reinforces Reformed theology that God is the one regenerating and the Lord regenerates whom he will. The Son quickens whom he will. It's not I believe and then I get this regeneration. It's he regenerates me and imparts faith in me.

Exactly right. Now when you say he imparts faith, he grants that we have faith. That's the Aorist active indicative, which means he has brought it to us and he's the one causing us and granting that we believe. And yet we do the believing. When I show people this stuff, they don't like it because they serve the blonde haired blue-eyed Caucasian surfer Jesus who's dressed in a woman's nightgown standing at the door of your heart asking permission for you and your wisdom to figure it out and let him in.

So you can pat yourself on the back and say, yeah, I decided my wisdom. Yeah. So Matt, doesn't this clearly show us that verse where Paul wrote, when the Lord says, I will mercy whom I will mercy and I will harden who I will harden. It is not of him that runneth nor of him that willeth.

It is entirely the Lord's decision through election to regenerate. Exactly correct. As many as people don't like it, that's what it says. You're quoting Romans 9 18. And this is what it says before that. It says, for he says to Moses, I'll have mercy on whom I have mercy, I'll have compassion on whom I have compassion. So it does not depend upon the man who wills or the man who runs, but upon God who has mercy. The man, not a group of people that they like to say this is about representative groups of people.

No, the man. And it says, whom is in the Greek in the singular. For he says to Moses, I'll have mercy on whom. That's like saying the one individual whom I have mercy on.

I'll have compassion on that one individual whom I have compassion on. So it does not depend upon the man who wills or the man who runs. That's what it says, literally in Greek. But on God who has mercy, for the scripture says to Pharaoh, for this very purpose I raised you up to demonstrate my power in you and that my name I proclaim throughout the whole earth.

So he raised up this individual named Pharaoh. Then, is what you said, then he has mercy on whom, there's that singular again, he has mercy on whom he desires, he hardens whom he desires. You're quoting it and you're understanding it.

And furthermore, just to say this, there's a statement afterwards that's very interesting. You'll say to me then, well why does he still find fault for who resists his will? It's a complaint.

Paul is anticipating a complaint. Well that's not fair. That means if you understood what, to the listeners, if you understood what I was reading and you say well that's not right, it's not fair, then you understand the text because Paul asked the same question. It's not exactly those words. But he says, well why does he still find fault?

You know, that's not fair. That means you're understanding the text. If you understand it, you ought to believe it instead of rejecting it.

Go ahead. Amen. Yeah, well absolutely I do believe it and it's just like my physical birth, obviously my mom and dad caused my physical birth by their intimacy and yet somehow with spiritual rebirth, most Christians who are non-Reformed are thinking they're the cause of it, which is kind of an absurdity, you know, if you compare it to like our physical birth. I believe that there's, rearing its ugly head in Reformed theology, not Reformed theology, excuse me, in Protestantism as a whole is humanist philosophy and that's part of it. That's part of it. So just real quick before you go, so when he says, I will mercy whom I will mercy, the reason why it's all on God's mercy is if he doesn't take the initiative to regenerate someone and grant them faith, then they're doomed.

Right. We are all by nature children of wrath, Ephesians 2-3. We're dead in our trespasses and sins, Ephesians 2-1.

The heart's desperately wicked and deceitful, no man can trust it, Jeremiah 17-9. Isaiah 64-6 says our righteous deeds are filthy rags before God. Romans 6, 14-20 says that the unbeliever is a slave of sin. In Romans 3, 10, 11, and 12 it speaks of the unbelievers and it says that no one does good.

The Jews and the Gentiles is actually addressing that. No one does good. No one seeks for God. In 1 Corinthians 2, 14, Paul says the natural man does not receive or accept the things of God for they're foolishness to him. He cannot receive them. So this is the condition of natural man, of the unbeliever.

So God, what he does is he intervenes and he brings them into salvation and that's why Jesus says in John 6, 65, you cannot come to me unless it's granted to you from the father. Well people say today, no it's up to me and my wisdom and my ability, all I need and all anybody needs is just the right information because we're wise enough and smart enough in and of ourselves. And it contradicts scripture and it's humanist philosophy that's creeping into the truth.

It's bad. And you know that was so absurd. I listened to your debate with Dr. Flowers and you had the patience of Job because like he would add words into scriptures. I'm like I can't believe he's doing this. Like when you told him it's been granted unto us to believe Philippians 1 29 and he said, no the opportunity. What are you talking? It doesn't say opportunity, Layton. It says the act of believing has been given to us.

I remember that very well and I've quoted that so many times and I remember talking to him saying, what are you doing? If you have to alter God's word to make it fit your theology, you've got a problem. What I'll do is I'll trick people and I don't mean a malicious way. I'll be talking to them but they don't like the idea of God predestining people or making them or whatever it is. And I say, well I believe that God makes everything, even the wicked for the day of evil.

I believe that. And they go, no he doesn't. And they don't realize I just quoted Proverbs 16 4. And I'll do this to them regularly and they disagree with God's word. And then when I pointed out the common response is that that's just your interpretation. No, it's a quote.

You understood exactly what it is and you reject God's word. Yeah. I'll call back next week, Matt. I have so many questions for you. Thank you so much for today. No problem.

I'd love to answer them. I've been doing this for years, answering these very kind of questions. Okay. Take care. No problem. All right. God bless. All right. Let's get in here.

Michael from Oregon. Welcome. You are on the air.

Thank you very much and I appreciate it. My thing is that I need two things. One, I've been trying to get a hold of you because Kenneth Oakley needs to be put on your false preachers and teachers. He is teaching the same thing at Joyce Meyer saying that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, died, and went to hell and became the firstborn of many.

And that we all can be firstborn. He's on my list. I already have a list. It's called Positive Confession Preachers and Teachers List of Heresies and he's on there.

Not only did he say that. Okay, because I was going through the preachers and teachers one. I've actually been a follower for many years. I was the one that actually ordered your book when you had the book available.

I still have them available. Yeah. Your voice sounds familiar though.

Have you talked before? Yep. I was one that I ordered your book originally. You had it in a binder port that you could put it in. Yeah. The mother of all notebooks. That shows you how long I've been with you.

Wow, that's a long time. No, he is teaching that we can also become firstborns and that's something that needs to be brought out because I'm seeing a lot of people where he says that God is the biggest loser because he lost his first man, his first woman, lost his anointed angel. And it's like, you know, why is he saying this? Because he's a fool. He really is.

Yeah, he's a fool. He also said, you know, he also said for God to work on earth, he has to be in agreement with a man. So he has to be in agreement with a man. Okay. And Adam was much female as male.

How about that? Right. And Adam is a reproduction of God. And Adam had the same size body as God. Earth is a copy of the mother planet. Yeah. He says heaven is a planet.

Which is all false teachings. Yeah, he doesn't know what he's doing. He couldn't argue his way to have a wet paper bag. The guy, he's horrible. Charles Capps is like this.

He really is. Oh, yeah. And Joyce Meyer is just as bad. Like I said, I was going off of Joyce Meyer and all them. They all teach the little God theology, which is part of the prosperity gospel. Or, you know, there's another one, I can't think of the name of it, right off the bat.

Name it and claim it. And it's like, how are people buying this? Because they're ignorant of the truth of God's word. Yeah, if someone told me, actually, to God, I'd be like, what? Yeah.

Yeah. In fact, Joyce Meyer said that Jesus stopped being the son of God. He paid for our sins in hell.

Without believing Jesus went to hell, you can't be saved. She's preaching a false gospel right there. Yeah. She gets revelation knowledge. And she says that we can be called little gods. Yeah, and that's scary, because that's the exact teaching of the devil. He was the first one that tried that in Isaiah 14. Yeah. Yeah, he tried making himself God, and when it didn't work for him there, then he went and deceived them, and even believing they could be just like God.

And the tradition carries. But, okay, I will do more research. Like I said, I was on your preacher-teacher section, and that's why I was like, uh-oh, Kenneth is not on this list.

You know, update that, because it is, but I guess it's not in that particular exact location, which means, oops, I've got to put that link in there. Right, that's why I was called, because I'm like, this is important, because I want people to see why not to follow these people, you know what I mean? When I was a little kid, I used to watch, I'm going to say this, I used to watch TV and faithfully, and then I'd like to go the way I didn't, and then when I came back, I'm like, maybe that's why I didn't, because they all teach the same thing, that we are a little God. Look, we're out of time, because there's a music, we've got to go, but call back tomorrow, we'll continue, okay? Okay, have a blessed one, and thank you so much. You too, man, God bless. Hey folks, we're out of time, may the Lord bless you, by his grace, back on here tomorrow, and we'll talk to you then. Have a good one. Another program powered by the Truth Network.