Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at KARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live. Francis taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. And if you were listening the past few days, hopefully it'll be interesting as well today, if you want to give me a call on this lovely July 24th, 2024. All you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you. If you want, you can also email me at info at KARM.org.

Info at KARM, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. And you can put in the subject line, radio comment, radio question, easy peasy. And we usually get to those on Fridays. Now, there was something else I was just going to say. What was it?

Can't remember. Eh, that's all right. No big deal. Hey, well, we just jump on the phones.

Let's see who the longest waiting is. Oh, okay. Ryan. Hey, Ryan, welcome. Welcome back. You're on the air. Hello, Matt. Thank you very much for inviting me to call back.

I was here two days ago. And we were discussing 1 John 2-2 and John 1-29, and you invited me to call back and to discuss this further. If you don't mind, I printed out a thing from KARM.org about how to do biblical exegesis. And you have 10 steps on there about how to interpret scriptures. And when I have done biblical interpretation, I have also been asked what sort of procedure that I use to interpret scripture.

And it's 10 steps. Would you mind if I read off exactly what I do to do biblical exegesis? Sure. Okay.

Go ahead. Step 1, lexicography, morphology. What is the word meanings?

What is the word usage? Number 2 is etymology, history of the word meanings. How has the meaning changed over time? How is the current biblical meaning different from the historic non-biblical meanings?

How is it similar? How does the current meaning enhance or contrast with the historic meaning? And, of course, that's the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. And, you know, I've had my 10-volume set since 1976.

So I'm sure you're familiar with that also. The third is compare and contrast. How have different biblical authors used the same terms? How have different non-biblical authors used the same terms? How is the current usage similar to other usage?

How is the current usage different from other users? Step 4 is grammar. What is the grammatical structure of the line, the paragraph, and the passage?

Number 5 is authorship. Who wrote it? Who was it written to?

When was it written? Immediate context. What is the topic? Is this the beginning of the topic discussion, the middle of the topic discussion, or the end of the topic discussion? And, of course, that's very germane when you're dealing with Hebrews since the first 11 chapters is one narrative.

Okay? Then, um, um, the, uh, Summarizing really quickly because, okay, you just read the, you know, like, look at the context, look at the author, you know, things like that. Well, but there's more to it than that I get into. I get into the linguistics. How is the text influenced by the immediate worldview? Culture.

What is the cultural context of the writing? And then exegetical history is my last step. And I ask the questions, does my interpretation agree with the traditional treatment of the passage?

Does it enhance it or does it go against it? And if it enhances it or agrees with it, then I stay with it. If it doesn't, then I throw it out and I start all over. Okay.

That is the thought process that I go through. Okay. Can we agree that that is a reasonable process of going through biblical interpretation? It's reasonable. Okay.

Okay. Um, and, uh, so I have a question for you. If I went to James two and I read, um, faith without works is dead. And then I turned over to Romans one 17 where it says Joshua lives by faith. And I say, Oh, well, James said this.

So when he says the Joshua live by faith, that means faith without works is dead. And therefore you're not just, would you agree with me that, um, um, that would be a misappropriation of the book of James? Yeah, go ahead. Okay. The last time I've, um, I talked with you, I thought you knew some things and perhaps I was imbibing some knowledge that you had that you did not have. So I'm going to try to be careful and not assume that you know things that I thought you didn't know. So anyway, my point is, is that, um, and I think you would also agree that James is a different author, has a different context, has a different meaning.

And therefore when you take that context out of that and impose it upon Romans, then you are misappropriating and misusing Romans and misusing James. We'll go ahead and just get to the, to the point. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. The point is two days ago, you tried taking a context from Matthew and imposing it upon John. And you tried taking a, uh, from, uh, the old Testament, atonement ideas and tried imposing it upon John. And you did exactly what I did when I took James and tried to impose it upon Romans. Okay.

No, I would disagree with you. So would you have a particular verse you want to look at? John 1 29, 1 John 2 2. That's the one you wanted me to call back and ask about.

Which one you want to look at first? John 1 29. John 1 29. Okay. John 1 29. All right.

So, uh, the next day you saw Jesus coming to him and said, behold, the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Okay. What about it? Okay. Well, I think clearly, um, I think in the context of John and the prologue of, um, of the fourth gospel, the world is clearly referring to all of creation and take it away is different than atonement and different than, uh, than, uh, perpetuation. And, um, it is a sacrifice of Christ in the aspect that he is creator of all things, all things fell without him and he died to redeem everything that was lost. Okay.

Okay. So collect the Colossians 1 20 relationship. So he took away the sins of the world.

What's the word world means? No, it's not sins. It's not sins.

It's sin. It's not referring to the acts of sin. It's referring to the status of being fallen. That is what sin refers to.

Okay. The status of being fallen. So he took away our fallenness? He, what he did was he suspended, um, his wrath against all of creation, which he could have destroyed it all because of the, uh, the center of Adam. He had mercy upon all of creation and he suspended that through the sacrifice of Christ, just as in first John two, two, he did the same thing with wrath and, um, uh, toward all of mankind. Okay. Um, you're not making any sense to me. So when it says he, he takes away the sin of the world, did he take away the sin of the world?

Yes, he did. Of course. Okay.

So the world means what people and or creation, the earth, what all of creation, all of creation, all of creation. So without. All right. Okay.

So he took the sin of a way of the people as well, right? Yes. All of creation. Yes. Okay. So people are in the creation.

So we're talking about people right now. So he took away the sin of the people who are judged to damnation, correct. Okay. So they don't have any sin because it's removed and yet they're damned. How's that?

How's that work? Um, I did not say it was removed. Okay. And, uh, the matter is, yes, it does. And that is not atonement. That is expiation. So it's a different aspect of the sacrifice of Christ than atonement or propitiation. Yeah. Expiation is not what we're going to be talking about as related to propitiatory sacrifice. But look, what we're talking about here is it takes it away. Did he take away the sin of the people who are damned?

Yes, of course. How did he take away their sin if they're damned because they're damned for their sin? I don't get it. Um, well, they are damned because, again, they love the darkness more than light. And we do this time and time and time again. That's sinful. Yeah, that's sinful to do that. That's correct. Right. So God took that away from them, right? Yes.

Okay. And why are they judged? And there's a reason they are condemned. Because they have, uh, chosen to, uh, love the darkness more than light. So the reason they are condemned is not because Christ did not die for them, the reason they uh... But wait, wait, wait. But that's sin. They took it away. So how could they be judged for what doesn't exist anymore, is taken away?

I just explained it to you. This is a suspension of God's judgment against all of creation. And therefore, the reason they are condemned is not because of a lack of the sacrifice of Christ, but because of their own choosing to, uh, to, uh, follow the darkness rather than light. But I'm curious because he says their sin is taken away, so that means they don't have any sin. Right.

Is that right? Well, well, you're confusing expiation with atonement. This is not atonement. I'm just asking you if it's taken away. No, I'm not bringing up appreciation or expiation or atonement. I'm just saying, it's taken away. I'm just asking what the text says. So you're the one violating your own rules. So it's taken away, is the sin taken away of those people who are judged for damnation and go to hell?

Yes. So the reason they're condemned is because of their own choices, not because of the lack of sacrifice of Christ. That's why no man is without excuse. But, but that's sin. They've sinned. And you say there's sin taken away. Is all of their sin taken away? Listen close. When it refers to sin, it's talking about the fallenness of all things. Okay? Fallenness.

It's not talking about sin. Wait, wait, wait. No, no, no.

No, no, no. Fallenness. All things are fallen.

Okay? The dirt is fallen. Come on. Come on, Matt.

Come on, Matt. You know we're talking about the fall. The fall in Genesis. Hold on. The fall of Adam. Hold on.

Which resulted in the fall of all creation. Hold on. Stop. Stop. Not the fall of a tree.

Stop. All of creation is affected by sin. The fall entered the world. Therefore trees die. We have plagues. We have earthquakes. We have storms.

We have famines. Yes. This is because of the effect of sin in the world. When you say the sin is taken away. That's why I focused earlier just on the individuals, okay?

So if an individual, a person's sin is taken away, it doesn't exist anymore. Is that correct? No. It's been suspended. His judgment has been suspended. It's not.

Oh. So it's suspended. It's not taken away.

It's suspended. Well that's what taketh away means in John 1.29. So what's the verb to take away in Greek?

Okay. To takeeth away. What's the verb in Greek? It is not a comment.

It is not a propitiation. This is an Aramaic idiom and if you had studied this passage you would know that it was an Aramaic idiom. Wow. Okay. So the Greek word is Iro. It's foreign to the Old Testament.

It's Iro. Okay. It's foreign to the Old Testament. It means to take away, to raise up, to get rid of it. Okay.

You can raise the stones. The word has a lot of different meanings. So let's see. So when you go to John, let's see, the ESV says takes away, as does the King James, takes, takes, takes away. Look at all these versions. Takes away. L-E-B, N-I-V.

I'm looking at scanning through them. They all say the same thing. Take it away, take it away. So if something's taken away, is it still there anymore? Once again, this is referring to the suspension of God's judgment against all of creation. That's not what it says. That's why it's referring to fallenness.

It doesn't say suspend. It says take away. Well, that's the meaning of take it away, the fallenness of the world. So you didn't even know what the Greek word was and yet you're telling me what it is? Well, you are more fluent in Greek than I am, that's for sure. I don't doubt that. It's been a long time since I took Greek and you've kept up with it far better than I have.

I don't doubt that. So what you're telling me then is that the sentence taken away doesn't say suspended. That's something you're just adding into the text. So it doesn't say that, but the word is used for pick up, take, take away, remove, carry, pull away, things like that.

So that's why they translate it as take away, not suspend. That doesn't fit the semantic domain of the word. So what you're doing is you're changing the meaning of the word in order to make it fit into theology.

That's not good. Well, that's what you do also when you try to limit world to just your luck. And that's why you have to impose upon it from the book of Matthew.

When you take the context of Matthew and impose it upon John, that is what you're doing. I did not do that. I told you I don't do that. Yes, you did. No, I don't. You do. Show me where?

That's what you did two days ago, Matt. After the break, show me where. Okay. Hold on.

Hey, folks. We'll be right back after the break. We'll go through one more little session with him and then we'll get to the callers.

I hope you're enjoying this. We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live. Taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back to the show. Let's do one more segment of this and then we'll move along.

Let's see. Ryan, are you still there? Yes, I am. Thank you very much for letting me hang on. I appreciate it. Okay.

Two days ago. Did you not refer to Matthew in saying that Christ came for the lost sheep of Israel and used that as a reason for denying that the world in John 1-29 was referring to at least all of creation or all of mankind? Well, he says he was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel's sheep are individuals.

So Jesus was only sent to the people of Israel covenantally. Okay. Okay.

But now you're... So what does that have to do with the context of John 1-29? I'm just saying that the word world has different meanings and different contexts. That's what I'm saying. So what does it mean in John 1-29? Well, I don't know exactly.

I think it... I probably would assume it means all the nations, groups and peoples and stuff, not just the Jews. Okay. So if you haven't noticed, there are only two kinds of peoples. The Jews and Gentiles. That's all of creation. I mean, excuse me, that's all of mankind. There's also the elect and the non-elect. There's the saved and the non-saved. There's a Christian and a non-Christian.

There's no way that you can restrict this to just the elect. Neither of us. I didn't do that.

For John 3-16 or 17. No, no, no. I'm correcting your... You just tried to. No, I'm correcting your... Okay. You tell me what this... Hold on, Ryan.

Hold on. I'm correcting your error. I'm being polite with you, but you don't realize how many mistakes you're making. You're prideful and you're stubborn. I'm trying to tell you.

You made a mistake. You said there's two kinds of people, the Jews and Gentiles. I was saying there's other groupings that you can do with people as well. It's all I did. I didn't say the world meant either one of those, which you took.

One of the several that I offered, so that's what I said it means. You have got to stop doing this, Ryan. I ask you the questions.

I ask you, did he take away the sin of the world? And I said, let's focus on individuals. And you say, yeah, he takes it away. But then you say it's suspended. That's not what it says.

Doesn't say he suspended it. You are committing the fallacy of putting your theology above the word of God. You are doing that. Okay. You tell me what world means in John 1.29. I don't know exactly what it means. I told you already, it can mean a range of things that are exegetically possible.

Okay. So is one of those exegetically possible interpretations referring to all of creation? Yes, it can, but you see, here's the thing. The thing is, if the sin is taken away, I have a question for you. How is a person who's damned for their sin guilty if their sin is taken away? Because they love the darkness more than life. That is sin.

It's taken away. So how can they go to hell if their sin is taken away? I just explained it to you because they choose to enjoy the darkness more than light. That is sin. Their loving darkness more than light is sin. Therefore that sin is included in the sin of the world. So did Jesus take away that sin too or not? Or is it limited atonement?

Yes. That's why you're there without excuse when you're condemned. What is it? Did he take all of their sin away or not all of their sin away?

Which is it? He took away everything that was the result of the fall. So all sin is taken away from all people. How do they go to hell then?

Because they chose the darkness more than light. That is sin. That's sin. They're choosing to do something sinful. Was that sin taken away too or not?

Yes it was. And once again. So that sin that they're going to hell for is taken away but they're going to hell for that which doesn't exist. It's taken away.

It's gone. Well, again, this is why no man is without excuse because the sacrifice of Christ is sufficient for the sins of all mankind and for the sin of the fallenness of all things. Okay, apparently you don't know what world means because you haven't studied it in John 129. Okay? Apparently you haven't studied that. So you don't know if it's referring to all of creation?

Tell you what. Why don't you go to Karm and look up the table section on Karm and look up my examination of the word world in every single instance of where it occurs. Have you done that? Have you done that? Actually, I just went through, well, the thing is I've gone through exactly what I do with biblical exegesis. I've taken you through that and you agreed. I've done my own translation.

I've done my own exegesis. Okay? And by the way, I guess we've come to the same point again. So why don't you enjoy your guano buffet for your fugitive symbiotic sycophants and enjoy yourself. Okay? Your ignorance and your stupidity is a degradation to the cause of Christ and to the cause of apologetics. You are ignorant and you're arrogant and you are a stupid debater. Okay.

Well, and yet I beat you all the time. Wow. All right folks.

So, uh, I let him say it because that's what we call hate mail and I love that stuff. Boy. Well. Okay. Let's go. The next longest waiting person is Alan. Alan, welcome.

You're on the air. Hey man. How's it going? It's going fine.

How are you doing? I want to say comment with the last caller that, um, uh, as much as you have hate in your heart for Matt, um, I don't think God would want you to be doing that. You know, it's hilarious that he was spreading so much hate to you when very clearly stated that you should love and who are you if you only love your brothers, you know, you may not believe you're saying, well, he got cornered, he got cornered and he doesn't know how to get out of it. So except to attack. So anyway. So what do you got buddy?

Uh, yes. So I'm, so one of the things it was about, um, I wanted to narrow down, I wanted to, um, get these foundations of definitions down for words. Like for example, I tried looking up Deacon and having a hard time actually finding a strict definition for Deacon because there's like certain ones for like Roman Catholicism. And I see some, some information on your website, but I don't have like a clear, like this is a glossary of this, this, this, and this, or like stuff like Deacon church, stuff like that.

Well, here we go. A word means what it means in context. And then a word can have a range of meanings, a semantic domain.

So the word Diakonos, okay. It's 1249 in, in, um, the Strong's Concordance and it occurs 29 times in 27 verses and it's translated as servant. And I'm looking, I'm scrolling through, I don't know if you can see also minister in the NSP it is, and of course Deacons, all right. And uh, let's see, there we go. So what we do is we look at the, how the word appears in this different context.

So guess what you do. So in the pastoral epistles where we're talking about the issue with their office is that's in first Timothy and it says in first Timothy three, eight Deacons must be now, Oh, what is a Deacon? It comes from the word, uh, Diakonos comes from, you know, to serve. So there are pastor elders, there are just elders, there's bishops and there's Deacons and the Deacons are the ones who are supposed to serve because that's what the word means.

So a Deacon in the church is someone who serves and provides and helps and then we'll get back to it after the break. There's more. Okay. So hold on buddy. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages.

So please stay tuned. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking a call at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, buddy. Welcome back to the show. Hope you're enjoying the show and if you want to give me a call, it's 877-207-2276 and we need to get back to Alan as soon as the producer reactivates. There we go. Hey Alan, buddy. Welcome. You're on the air. Well, thank you, Matt.

So what do you got? Uh, I just wanted to get more into it. So like, would you, um, would you say a, a reasonable definition for Deacon that would be an assistant of a church? It's reasonable. Uh, but you can have an assistant who's a woman.

And so then it would be an insufficient definition because women can't be Deacons either. Okay. Yeah.

That's my thing too. That's why I want to get like the Deacon thing cause I want, cause I know one of the, I don't remember what the website was, let me see real quick, it was, uh, it was tms.edu. It had a, there was a church that was recommended for me and I looked at it cause I was looking at the leadership and it had a section for Deaconesses and I was wondering what your take on that is and if they're potentially mislabeling mislabeling them as Deaconesses. Yeah.

Yeah. Because even though the Bible says Deacons, you know, for example, first Timothy three 12 Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, good manners of their children, et cetera. And so, hold on a sec.

So with that saying here, it's, uh, on just me as good night costs in the Greek. And uh, it just means husbands of one wife. And so a woman can't fit that bill. So a Deacon can't be a woman by biblical mandate that just did. So this is the pastoral pistol. So a church that have women Deacons is not submitting to the scriptures in that area.

And that's a problem. Now some may say that they're just servants of the church. Well then they call them a servant, but don't call them a Deacon because the word Deacon has a, an ecclesiastical meaning to it. But a servant is far less ecclesiastically minded.

So they could have someone with the same function with different titles and we don't want to be too slick about it, if you get my drift, but we've got to be careful. So we don't want women to be Deacons in the sense that they have those Deacon, uh, responsibilities. Yep. Okay. Yeah. I guess that's one of the things I would need to research more on cause I still have a rough time differentiating between Deacon and assistant.

Um, okay. Generally speaking, a Deacon is someone who will take care of the needs of others. An assistant might help a pastor arrange a flight. A Deacon wouldn't do that, though it could, but a Deacon would be the one who, say someone comes to the church, a woman and living in her car and she needs food for the children that's in her car. A Deacon, that's, that's when the Deacon step in and traditionally speaking and they would take care of her and do what's right. That's not an assistant's job.

Okay. So, so I guess if you break it down more, say if a woman is a member of the church and she holds the door open for someone who is, uh, lame, is that an act that a Deacon would do or an assistant? Well, Deacons breathe and an assistant would breathe.

Because they both do the same thing doesn't mean they're the same office. So holding a door open for somebody is just polite, but the issue of a Deacon, I don't see the issue of Deacons being doctrinally specified the way a pastor is. Pastors and elders go to 1 Timothy 5.17, you can do that. But it says Deacons must be men of dignity, not double-tongued or addicted to wine, fond of sordid gain, holy to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. These men must be tested, let them serve as Deacons, excuse me, serve as Deacons and it's from the Greek word diakonoe, again, actually it's a different one, decaneo, the verb to serve, which is to cognate. And so they're there to serve in that capacity.

So what does it mean to serve? Apparently there were many needs of the early brethren and the Deacons were the ones who did that job of divvying out money, help, whatever it might have been, housing for the people in need. It's not an assistant, an assistant aids an individual who, for example, a pastor, I so to speak have assistants, you know, I have assistants like to help me with the ministry in varying areas, but they're not Deacons.

So okay. All right, how, I think that helps me a lot more, how would you describe the difference between a church and a ministry? A church has a, usually it has worship in it, the iteration of God, the preaching of the sermon, the administration of the sacraments, a ministry does not.

Carm is a ministry. So I might step into preaching periodically and teaching more often than not, but we don't administer the sacraments here, we don't do anything like that. So it doesn't constitute what we would call a church, it's a ministry. Okay.

Okay. I guess the last part of it is what are the differences between evangelism, a missionary, and the act of witnessing? And evangelicalism is a movement to preach the gospel. Evangelical comes from the Greek word euangelia, which is the word gospel. So it's preaching of the gospel, evangelizing, an evangelical ministry. And a missionary is someone who is called by God and recognized by church, a church or churches, to go do a certain thing in a ministerial sense. Preaching the gospel to a lost tribe. It could be leading a men's group at a certain place in a city, whatever, it could be varying things.

What was the third thing you said? Witnessing. Witnessing is something that everybody is supposed to do. Not everybody does, but generally all people are called to do that. But if you're at your mom at home taking care of the kids, you're not witnessing in that sense.

But when you get out in the real world, so to speak, then opportunities arise. So everybody's supposed to do that kind of a thing. For a deacon is male only. A minister is male only. Ministry is related to church work. A missionary could be male or female, could be supported by a church under their ecclesiastical authority it's sending. And witnessing is just something that we're all called to do.

So a missionary doesn't have to be a deacon per se, because women can be missionaries. Is that correct? Yes, absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. Okay.

Good deal. Okay? All right. All right, man.

I think that helps me a lot. I appreciate that, Matt. Okay, buddy. God bless. Okay. All right. Let's go over to Ron from Wake Forest, waiting 34 minutes.

Thanks for the long wait. What do you got, buddy? Yes, sir. I was listening, and I wanted to get the scriptures you shared with a young lady, yet they come out of the rapture, and how you go to the tribulation. Yeah, you go to Matthew 24, all right.

Okay. And what it says is that in verse 3 they ask Jesus, what will be the sign of your coming when all these things happen at the end of the age? And he says that there will be wars, rumors of wars, famines, earthquakes, delivered over to tribulation, many will fall away, false prophets, lawlessness will increase, love will grow cold, the gospel of the kingdom will be preached to the whole world.

So there's lots of things like that. And then it says, when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of in Daniel, then flee because there's going to be a lot of trouble. And it says, unless those days be cut short, no life would be left. So this is talking about a lot of trouble, a lot of pain, a lot of suffering. Then just as the lightning comes in the east of the west, so will the coming of the son of man be.

All right. So what he's doing there is talking about that and then what people don't know, he says wherever the corpse is, the vultures gather, that's what Jesus said. Then he says immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light. That's Matthew 24, 29 through 30, because he says after the tribulation, then in verse 31, he says, he will send forth his angel with a great trumpet.

But if you turn to 1 Corinthians 52, then you find out that, let me get over there. It says any moment in the twinkling of an eye, the last trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised. That's at the last trumpet when the dead are raised. And furthermore, when you go to 1 Thessalonians 4, starting at verse 16, the Lord himself will descend from heaven when they shall with the voice of the archangel, the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Well, that's at the last trumpet, because that's what 1 Corinthians 15, 52 says. The last trumpet is when the dead are raised.

Now when you go back to Matthew 24, you'll see that it's after the tribulation that the trumpet is blown. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yes, sir. All right.

Yes, I wanted to research, because you may see it, but it may sit. Okay. Hold on, buddy.

We've got a break. Okay. All right. Hey, folks, be right back after these messages. If Ron's still there, be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, Ron, welcome back to the show. Ron, are you still there? Yes, sir. All right.

I'm here. Okay, so I gave you some stuff kind of quickly, because we're running out of time, but did that help? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Like I said, I've been taught, you know, that the rapture is going to occur before the tribulation. It doesn't look like it, though, does it? What you said made sense. That's right. No, sir. I read Matthew yesterday, and what you said made sense.

I want to study it more. Also, you've got to go to Matthew 13, and you need to find the parable of the wheat and the tares, because this really is interesting, because it says, you know, in verse 24, he gave them the parable of the tares, you know, and the good and the bad, and he says in verse 30, allow both to grow together until the harvest, the time of the harvest, I'll tell you to the reapers, first gathered up the tares. So wait a minute. So the first ones gathered at the harvest are the wicked. That's what Jesus said in Matthew 12.30. Then if you go to Matthew 12.40, he says, he interprets it, let me go up to 39, though. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels, just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.

So the ones who were taken first at the harvest are the wicked. Now that's something I have never heard a preacher preach in a pulpit in all my 44 years going to church. And in fact, when I discovered this, when it was new to me, I'm not saying others hadn't found it, of course, but it took me a couple of years of doing radio before I finally started admitting that's what it says, because I was concerned. I said, how come I've not heard this before?

And if I've not heard it before, that's a warning, because, come on, how could I not get it? Others not get it, and I'm saying it, that doesn't make any sense. So I didn't see any other commentaries that dealt with it, or preachers, so I was hesitant.

After a while I said, well, it's just what it says. So I already by then fed it in to my eschatological view, and so what my view is that the kingdom of God is now, as Jesus said, the kingdom of God is within you, he is the king, he will take out of his kingdom the stumbling blocks. That's what happens at his return, the first ones taken are the wicked, that's what he says. And two men in the field, one is taken, one is left, that's the wicked, that's what the context is. You go to Matthew 24, Luke 17, and you find it, and you read, and it's the wicked who are taken.

It's obvious. It's been 100% of people that I've shown that to, two men in the field, one is taken, one is left. When I show it to them in scripture, 100% have said, you're right, that's what it is, that's the wicked, that's what we're taking.

100%. So that's what it is. Well, okay, so then it looks like, and this is a radical different view, because think about this, the pre-trib rapture view, and let me exaggerate it a little bit, because not all Christians who hold to that are like this, a lot of them are very godly or very evangelical, praise God for them. But if I were to take that side and say, then it would make the case for the pre-tribulation rapture that we are not in the kingdom of God now, we're in the devil's realm, and we need to escape the devil's realm, and we're going to do that in the rapture, so don't be that concerned about the devil's realm, we've got another one coming. What if that was false, and it was the view, we are in the kingdom of God right now, Christ is the Lord, well how come it's so bad, because we're not doing our jobs? And so he says, I'll take out of his kingdom the stumbling blocks, and the first one's taken are the wicked, happens at the end of the age, and those are the ones who are taken, and it's at the last trumpet, 1 Corinthians 15, 52, and Jesus says in Matthew 24, 39 I think it was, go back and forth, that after the tribulation of those days is when this occurs, and so when he returns and grabs people, so I mean, it's just, I'd love to see people deal with that, I haven't heard anybody do it, I need to do a video on it, you know? After the tribulation of those days, the sun will be dark and the moon will not give its light, it will fall from the sky, and I know what the postmills say, the sign of the son of man will appear in the sky, the tribes of the earth will mourn, see the son of man coming in the clouds, just like it was prophesied that this is how he would return, Acts 1, 9-11, this is a prophecy of his return, and he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet and gather together his elect from the four winds.

So the, okay, the great trumpet, that's the gathering of the elect, and that's the last trumpet because it says we who are alive remain, we are going to move the Lord, that's 1 Thessalonians 4, 16th chapter 5 verse 2, and 1 Corinthians 15, 52 says it's the last trumpet. So it goes on and on, I just, you know, yeah, okay, yeah, I'm messing people up. I do, I mess people up, you know, I've got a lot of people say, Matt, I love your teaching, I don't like it because you mess me up, you know, you're welcome, I've learned a lot listening to you. Okay, and at the very least, if people disagree with me and they study the word of God, praise God, mission accomplished, you know, you don't have to agree with me, just study, okay, all right man, got to get going. We have a good night.

Okay, God bless. All right, now let's get to Ty from North Carolina. Ty, welcome, you're on the air. Ty. Ty. Hey Matt, how you doing?

Doing all right, hanging in there man, what do you got buddy? So my question is based on Matthew 1023, after he tells the disciples not to go to the Gentiles, to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, then here in 1023 he says, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes. Is he speaking of the second coming there? That's one of the possible interpretations because there was about two million people in the area at that time and about a thousand cities and villages. He says, you're not going to finish going to them all before I return. And it was thousands of square miles. So the Jewish leaders and the Romans would have hindered the disciples teaching and we know that they did a great deal.

The Jews did and the Romans did when they sacked Jerusalem. So they didn't finish, okay, he says, okay, you will not finish. So they didn't finish before he comes though, right, that's what he's saying? Right, before he returns, that's what it seems to be, okay, all right, okay, any big problem with that or comment?

That was my question, man. Okay, good enough? Yeah. Okay. All right, man. There you go.

Appreciate it. Okay. All right, man. God bless.

Okay. So, hey, folks, if you want to, okay, there we go. Folks, if you want to give me a call, all they're going to do is dial 877-207-2276.

Vernell from North Carolina welcoming on the air. Hey, man, I'm one of your faithful listeners and I just want to say you're doing an awesome job. I have learned a lot from you and continuously listen to you and I want to say to the gentleman that called and wanted to debate you, he was so rude, so out of line and somebody's supposed to be knowing the word of God and walking with God, but call you out of your name because you didn't agree with him. It's okay to agree and disagree or disagree to agree, but you don't have to get to that level. So that tells me where he's at. If I was a new Christian in Christ and hearing him say what he said and how he responded, he got on my nerve the other day and said, you should know that.

You should know that. And I'm like, oh, will you stop, please, because you're, you're, you're not really, it was frustrating me because I know he just wanted to debate you. You continue to do what you're doing. I think you're doing an awesome job and don't let people like that, the naysales and somebody one like him who say, God, how can you say you love me who you have not seen and hate the one that he was hating you because of your knowledge and I praise God for you and continue for protection and everything that's around you. That man need to get some new discernment or how he should respond because he cannot beat you in what you know.

Okay, he knows what he knows, but you know what you know too. So that's why I'm saying, man, I got you 1000 over here. I appreciate it. I appreciate it.

A lot of people were commenting in the chat. He'll probably call up and apologize. That's one of the good things about him. He, when he makes a mistake, he called up and apologize and that's fine, you know, but I think the logic is listening and if he trying to win souls, he just lost, he just lost me cause I'm not lost, but he lost me as far as listening to him. I don't like no, that, that's not right. That just didn't get it, I'm sorry.

Well I get it. That's good. I do appreciate that, but he needed to straighten up my tone down a little and stop being so over zealous cause that's what I picked up from him.

He was quite over zealous and that is not good. Yes, like being over, being, um, obstreperous, I love that word. Okay. Obstreperous, I mean, boisterously recalcitrant, see that's a good word. Okay.

I like them too. Yeah. You continue, Matt, you do an excellent job and people, the people who call me and can't understand, that's not, that's not your problem. They just need to get an understanding, a better understanding. That's what the whole spirit for. You know, when you ain't got to believe everything Matt say, but you get to go in, God, what second Timothy 2 15 tells us, study to show thyself approved that a work may not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

They shouldn't try to hold you accountable for the Bible per se, you know, everything thinking that, you know, cause you don't agree with them. I don't get it. I don't get it. Hey, well, I hear you and uh, you know, I don't mind, believe it or not. But let's put it this way.

I have been yelled at, accused so often for so many years that it's like, okay, yeah, now what? No, man. I've been listening. I've been, I've been living over here shooting God, hold a bullet on my head. Lord Jesus came, don't tell me because they know what they know, what they say. I don't get it. It's okay to not to agree with you, but I don't, don't do you like that. That's wrong.

That's wrong. You're trying to call yourself to be a spiritual person, but you can't understand why you know they have the knowledge and the wisdom and understanding that you have. Don't take, try to take it from me, learn your own and understand where you're coming from and don't try to knock it down.

That's why I don't get it. I appreciate that. Thank you.

On that day of judgment, they don't know that. Well, yeah, but you know, I do appreciate that this, uh, we got all, we only have 30 seconds left. How long have you been listening to the show? Just curious. Oh my God. For a very long time.

I call you coming from work and this one day it's been a couple of, for years, a couple of years, I think. Yeah. More so. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. I love how you give the word. Yes.

And how you break it down. That's why I'm still with you, man. I learned a lot. Well, good. You know, I would love to get out there cause some of the biggest fans we've got for the show are right in your area. I'd love to be out there meeting people.

It'd be fun. Oh, wow. There's the music. We got to go. Okay.

Thanks for calling. God bless. Okay. All right.

She, she warms my heart. That's nice. I love that enthusiasm. Praise God. All right. Hey, we tried to get an English and by God's grace, we're back on here tomorrow. Have a great evening. We'll talk to you then. Another program powered by the truth network.