Mike Budenholzer Fired By Bucks (Hour 1)

Tayshia Studios, Sports Radio 94 WIP, broadcasting to you live on CBS Sports Radio 2400 Market in Philadelphia. This is the Zach Gelb Show Coast to Coast on CBS Sports Radio across all of our great local CBS Sports Radio affiliates.

Sirius XM, Channel 158 and that free Odyssey app. 855-212-4CBS is the number to jump on in. 855-212-4227. You can always get at me on Instagram where I'm straight flexin' or via the good ol' cesspool of Twitter. At Zach Gelb, that's Z-A-C-H-G-E-L-B. In Philadelphia this weekend for a wedding, thanks our friends at 94 WIP for allowing us to broadcast here. And back in our New York City studios, of course, there's no other than Haute Kiki.

Haute Kiki. So we got a big show for you today. Jason Thompson, the former NBA player, gonna join us at hour 20 from now.

Scott Hastings is gonna join us at 820 p.m. Eastern, 520 p.m. Pacific. For Milwaukee Bucks fans, we will get to the big news in just a bit. Mike Budenholzer, who did win a championship with the organization a few years ago, is now out. As you do have the Milwaukee Bucks who, I couldn't believe this one, they did go down in five games to the Miami Heat.

And you had choke job after choke job, so there has to be a punitive action for that. And Coach Bud is out. But I wanted to start the show today talking about the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6ers, 10, 9, 8, 76ers. And their pathetic Game 2 performance up against the Boston Celtics.

And you will have Game 3 coming up on Friday in Philadelphia. And now joining us actually in studio. We don't usually start the show off with guests, but when we're on his territory and we are in the studio of the preeminent afternoon drive host in all of Philadelphia, I think it's only right to be polite and welcome in CBS Sports Radio host and also Sports Radio 94 WIP host in Johnny March.

Sean, how you been? That's right. 10 p.m. to 2 a.m. Eastern time on Sunday nights.

That's right. The new time slot, too. The new time slot. I'm not doing the overnight shift. So, what's up, Zach? How are you, man?

I'm doing fantastic. And I will say, you look more awake because sometimes I have no life and I would tune into those 2 to 6 a.m. Eastern time shows, which I have a soft spot for it because I did that for two years. And I know how tired you are and you're talking and you don't even know what you're saying because like your right eye is asleep and your left eye is awake. That's just what happens when you do that show. And now since you have the 10 p.m. to 2 a.m. show, I think your sleep schedule is all caught up. I'm doing the same thing.

I'm not making sense. And it's just a little bit earlier in the night. But, yeah.

What up, man? Well, let's start things off at the Sixers last night. This is why this team has no shot at getting to the Finals and they have no chance of winning a championship because everyone is going crazy and going wild about James Harden in Game 1, which he needed to have that performance without Joel Embiid. But then you get Embiid back and this dude was an absolute no-show last night.

Yeah, I've always believed that if the Sixers were going to do anything, Embiid obviously needs to play well and I don't know if he's ever going to be healthy in the playoffs or if that's going to be something consistently that he can get done, but you're going to need a strong number two that is capable of taking over a game or is capable of being the best player in a game. And we saw James Harden was great in Game 1. He also, like, everything seemed to be going in. He looked like a different player.

He had confidence. And then last night with Embiid coming back, he looked like, didn't look like Houston Harden, right? Like, Joel Embiid last year after they lost in the playoffs said, oh, I thought we were getting Houston Harden, but he's not that guy anymore, which is, like, pretty telling.

He was saying that about a teammate. He said we're not getting Houston Harden. Harden did have a good regular season.

I'm not a big fan. I'm not looking forward if the 76ers do elect to re-sign him. I certainly don't want a max deal, but I'm not a big Harden fan.

He needs to be legitimately not only the second best player on the team, he needs to be a co-star with Joel Embiid for the Sixers to even get out of the second round. And he's not. And he's not. Let me give you this scenario.

In the regular season he is, in the postseason he's not. And you know what? I hated to be this guy. And just for everybody that knows, on WIP, for the most part this season, and really the last couple of years, I've been very negative on the 76ers. You negative? No.

John Marks negative? I think you're just realistic. They come up small when it matters. The bottom line is they haven't gotten out of the second round of the playoffs yet, under this particular run with the process and Joel Embiid. The difference this year is that I've kind of taken the weight off Joel Embiid because I realize how great of a player he is and realized you don't do it alone in the NBA. No players dragging their team to a title without having significant help from a co-star, from role players. When you look at Boston, Boston's pieces fit and those guys come up big. Their role players have come up big.

Same thing the year that the Bucs won the title. Drew Holiday came up big. He played terrible in some of those games in the finals. He also came up big. Chris Middleton too. Chris Middleton was... Closer Chris.

Right, and then Middleton gets hurt last year, they don't win. So my point is that if the 76ers are ever going to get out of the second round of the playoffs, someone's got to step up other than Joel Embiid and Harden's not that guy. I'll simplify this for Sixers fans because I know how Philadelphia works and I know how they support their own like no other and you've seen that in the MVP conversation where it's screw Nikola Jokic. He's boring.

He's not great. It's Joel Embiid. He's the greatest thing to ever touch the basketball court and shame on you if you didn't vote him for MVP. That's like the Philly fan mentality about it. Philly fans should be so jealous of the Denver Nuggets because the Nuggets have Jamal Murray who is that complementary piece to Nikola Jokic and we know the Joker, as great as he is, he needs someone just like Joel Embiid to make that big shot late in a series.

Murray could do it. We've seen him do it before. And James Harden's entire career besides the other night in Game 1, he does not make the big shot. Yeah and we actually were talking about this today that not that you take Joel Embiid and his talent for granted because he has so much talent and he's a great player but when you're that big and you're a center, it's very difficult to control the game and what ends up happening and what's happened with the Sixers over the last couple years is they get to a point where they rely so much on Embiid in the playoffs and they overuse him.

And when you have a 7'2 guy that now is trying to create off the dribble and he's shooting threes and you're going to him in the post and they don't really have another option they have confidence in a ton of turnovers and just like Joel Embiid can't do it alone. The difference with the Nuggets this year, you're absolutely right. Murray has been fantastic.

So at the beginning of the playoffs, I said ah the Nuggets said number one seed, they'll lose again. They'll be out by the second round. Not with the way Murray's playing. I think they're going to the NBA Finals and it's not because Jokic, we know he's a great player.

It's because of Murray and some of the other complementary pieces. So while I think that it's fair to question and bead and if you can win with with a style of center like that, I mean really it's coming down to who you're putting around them and it just like when you lose when you lose the Jimmy Butler when you realize that Jimmy Butler probably could be here right now. They elected to keep Ben Simmons and Tobias Harris, right? And like he also like Brett Brown like Jimmy just Jimmy wanted to be here on his terms and the Sixers weren't doing it. But Jimmy Butler is the exact player that you need with Joel and bead. You don't need a guy that's going to score 30 points during the regular season. You need this you need a guy that can score 50 in the in the playoffs and that's that's Jimmy Butler. They're missing Jimmy Butler and the guy honestly that is going to be available. I would think just the way that he's talking is going to be Dame Willard via trade, but I don't think Dame is going to Philadelphia. I actually think Dame Willard is going to be going to Miami this offseason. Yeah, it's a shame because he would be the perfect piece for him. He'd be the perfect team to win a championship.

No, they could and it is the missing piece and like at some point Damian Lillard needs to be sick of this isn't working. Like what am I doing either? You're going to be Tony Gwynn. You're going to play the entire career and not win anything or you're going to say hey listen.

I gave it I gave it as long as I could I want to go win. So I thought it was like that with Jokic for a while which Dame going and playing with Jokic like Jokic needed needed a co-star needed a wing player. He needed a guard.

He's gotten it this year. Listen, we'll see what Harden does. All right, but if you're if you're asking me game 7 in Boston series is tied 3-3. What is James Harden going to look like in that game?

I'm going to tell you he doesn't look good in that game. Well, how long do you think this series is going to go because I get the feeling and I said this going into the series. So this is not just be like, oh, I'm going to stick with my prediction.

I'm going to be stubborn. I'll change my predictions all the time. I went into the series saying I could argue Celtics in five, but I think it's going to be Celtics in six and the Sixers they got one in Boston. I would imagine they probably win game three at home in Philadelphia and then I kind of see him losing four five and six. I I would say seven right now and I don't think they win in seven game three is a huge game obviously, but then they need to win game four to write like you can go up to one but then you're going tit for tat and they win game four.

Now it's tied back up to up and then so now now they have it again. I don't I mean nothing that we've seen out of the 76ers team over this run and there's been different players. Like the one years is Ben Simmons not wanting to shoot. So it's hard to blame this team for what happened back then with Ben Simmons, but also there nobody stepped up in big games. Nobody stepped up and it's one thing to have a guy that can average 30 points a game. It's another guy maybe like a Tobias Harris for instance. That's that he's the guy that steps up. He's the veteran that steps up. He's just a fine player and he's just he's just like he's fine. Yeah, like like he's fine.

He's from my hometown. Yeah, I see Tobias Harris be as good as possible. He's some games will go drop you 24 points. You're like, all right, this device has you're going to see in the other games.

It's like eight. They just don't really have and I guess it would be maxi would be the player that you really need to step up because he's capable of doing it. He's shown that he has that high level and he's got that kind of ceiling but then he's played poor. I mean, he put 26 in 26 points in Game 1 and it was the least effective 26 points. I think I've ever seen in a game so he's good but he has it like we'll see.

He's still he's still he still plays like he's very young in some of these big games. John Marks here with us. So if Embiid was in Portland, if Embiid was in Milwaukee, you know every Tom, Dick and Harry that does national radio would be saying Embiid's got to get the hell out of there. When does that happen in Philadelphia?

It's a huge market. He loves here. When I used to live here, I would see him out all the time. Embiid loves this city and being the Philly guy, but eventually and who knows how many more primeurs that he has left with all this wear and tear. When does he say Markelle Foltz didn't work, Ben Simmons didn't work, James Harden's not working and the guy that was here, Jimmy Butler has gone on to an NBA Finals once he left here. Yeah, it's interesting because I think last year after they lost and he was getting criticized and by the way the other thing he does after they lose series is he points fingers at everybody else. When in fact we're really like he's part of the problem too and he needs to step up and accept responsibility.

Fair point. But like I feel like that when it starts to go wrong with him with the city, when the fans turn on him, when the media turns on him. Will the fans ever turn on him though? It's starting to get there. Really?

Not now it isn't. Right now everything's great, but after some of these playoff losses and his behavior and earlier in his career when he was out of shape, when he clearly wasn't committed to being the best player that he could be, but he's answered a lot of those questions. He's been in better shape. He's certainly more committed to being a pro and to being the best player. He was the MVP this year.

He scored 33 points a game. But I mean, I guess what you're really asking is how long does he give the organization to put legitimate talent like, hey, we're going to win a title. Here's the team.

Now you guys got to go do it. And I mean, Daryl Morey has paid a lot of money, Zach. Daryl Morey has paid a lot of money to run the 76ers and he's trying his best. His one play that he had, the one chip that he had left was Ben Simmons. That was the chip. And now we look at it like it's not even a chip, but at least when he was not refusing the report and he was a trade piece, there were other teams that were interested in him. He used Ben Simmons to get James Harden.

And if that doesn't work out, you don't have anything left, right? Like and then if you re-sign James Harden after as after it hasn't worked now, what are you doing? So the way I think Joel Embiid isn't a 76er in two years and is a member of the Miami Heat or wherever he decides that he wants to go is if they can't put a legitimate co-star next to him and things go south.

Like that's the thing. And I'll say, go get Dame Lillard. And I don't think Harden should be back here. But with this window, whatever this window is that you have, it's like, what do you do if Harden does say, I want to go back to Houston because I love the strip clubs and I love the nightlife in Houston.

And that's where I want to go play. If you can't get Dame Lillard, you're going to need Maxie to elevate his game. And for a young player, that's not easy to do. Like the Sixers are like no man's land right now where they have a good team and they're in these series, but you never have that feeling of, wow, you got a chance to go get a championship. I don't know how you feel about this, but the show that precedes me, Maggie and Perloff, Andrew Perloff, big Sixers fan, big, silly guy. I said to him, and he agreed with me on this, the reason why Sixers fans made such a big deal about this MVP is because that's the only thing they're going to win this year.

They know down deep, the Philly fans aren't stupid, they know down deep this isn't a championship squad. Yeah, and I mean, what I would do with Harden is, unless, if they win this series and Harden plays great, now we can talk. Do I expect that to happen? No. I mean, no.

To be truthful, no. I wouldn't sign him at all. He's got a player option that he can pick up.

There'll be a market out there for him. Houston, I mean, I don't know, it sure feels like all these stories that come out that, oh, Harden, no, the Rockets will max him out, Harden could go back to Houston. They're trying to use leverage to the 76ers to make sure that they get a max deal out of the 76ers. There's a 0% chance I'm giving James Harden a max deal. If he wants a max deal, he can go back to Houston.

That's a loser move. If he wants to go to one of the worst teams in the NBA and leave one of the best teams in the East, I would not max him out. I mean, I don't even really want him back, but your main point is, like, they're not good enough to win with or without him. So rather than tie myself up with long-term financial things with James Harden, I mean, think about it with James Harden.

Like, I would have to believe that he actually has changed as a player and changed just as an individual. He came in to a team where they were the favorites to win a championship. Kevin Garnett, Kyrie Irving, they were the favorites to win a championship. He came in, they came in out of weight, he overweight. And it ticked Kevin Durant off. So that's the mentality of James Harden, was he came in out of shape, overweight, and here they were picked to win a championship with Durant and Kyrie Irving. Now, the one thing I will say, when he got there, though, originally, he tried to make nice with Kyrie. And he said, Kyrie, you want me to play point guard?

I'll do that. We'll get you the rock. All that stuff. He catered to Kyrie, and then he eventually realized that Kyrie's crazy and there's no point in doing anything for Kyrie. I'll just leave it with Harden, because I'm probably too hard on him. I don't think he's a bad guy or anything like that. I just think he would be as comfortable playing in Houston, scoring points, being back in a comfortable environment, than playing in a Game 7 in Boston. I just don't think he's that kind of player. And also, when you look at the Celtics last night, too, Jon, as Jon Marks is here with us, as we're in his studio, actually, at WIP.

Thank you so much for allowing us to be here today. But Tatum didn't even do anything last night. Seven points.

He did nothing. And they still kicked your ass. Yeah, I mean, I thought they were going to lose last night. I didn't know that it would be a 30-some point game. But they had urgency that I thought the Celtics were going to have last night.

I don't even really care about the blowout loss. The thing that's more concerning for me is that Harden couldn't piggyback a really good game with another good game. And he looked as bad as he did last night. And we kind of saw that in the first round, too, when he played that one good game against Brooklyn and he fouled it up with the Stinker as well. That's what he's done his entire career.

Two more and then I'll let you get out and out of here. I want to ask you, you said that you liked the Nuggets in the West. That's to get to the finals. In the East, do you still go Boston? Because I think it's Boston because Milwaukee's no longer there and Booterholtzer's now out of a job. But they haven't been impressive yet in the playoffs.

They haven't. So that's, I mean, they're ripe to lose, for sure. Like, if you bring your A-game against Boston, the Sixers could beat them. Miami Celtics would be a heck of a series. So you're picking the Knicks or the Heat, right? Like, maybe the Heat.

I just don't feel like they have enough. If Jimmy Butler goes bleep you, Mo, then they have a chance to get to the finals. But how many times can he do that? On a bad ankle, too. I looked at the box score at Game 1 and I said to myself, how the hell do they score if Butler can't play, right? Like, he was a decoy the last five minutes.

They were able to hold on. But I just don't think they can score consistently enough if Jimmy's not having one of those nights. The confidence fan, I just want to ask you one more thing, Philadelphia sports-wise, of the Eagles right now. They're the team to be in the NFC. They just paid Jalen Hurts. This NFC's not strong. The 49ers, the second best team in the NFC. They don't have a quarterback.

It has to just be, obviously, Super Bowl or bust for Philadelphia. But is there any fear that there's maybe some regression this year out of Hurts? No.

No. I mean, like last year, that was something I was saying a lot, which was, wait until the league studies him in the offseason, and they're not going to let him run like he did, and he'll have to make real adjustments, and he actually threw the ball really well this year. No, there's not to worry about regression.

I mean, honestly, it was weird. A lot of fans came into the offseason saying, like, well, we have a lot of free agents and not a lot of cap room. You know, maybe this is one of these years where you have to take a little bit of a step back to get yourself financially and salary cap ready to go to the future. And my whole thing was, I mean, Jesus, you were that close to winning a Super Bowl in a week conference. Aaron Rodgers is going to get traded. You have a three to five-year window right now where you should be one of the favorites, if not the favorite, to win the NFC.

I mean, you're going to do it every year. But San Francisco, they're kind of the co-favorite right now with the Eagles. Who's their quarterback? Right, like as good of a roster as they have, you don't know who their quarterback is.

So it's very difficult to come back from the post-Super Bowl hangover. I don't think a team, like 1970, that the teams went back after losing the Super Bowl in the NFC that has went back. NFC, OK, I was going to say AFC, the Patriots lost, and then they got back the next year.

I think it was the Vikings in 1970-something, but it's been a really long time, and there's a reason for that. I just think this roster is really good. The only thing I think that prevents the Eagles from getting the Super Bowl is injuries this year. Or if Brock Purdy turns out to be as good as he was in that six or seven game stretch. Right, and also, like you said with injuries, but both teams were on a roll right there. I would have loved to see what would have happened if Purdy didn't get hurt in that game. Because that would have been one hell of a game.

But I think the Eagles are legit, and I'd be surprised if they weren't at least in the NFC Championship game next year. He's Jon Marks from Sports Radio 94 WIP. Catch him afternoons, and also right here on CBS Sports Radio, Sunday nights, 10pm to 2am. Jon, good deal, thanks so much. Oh, thanks, Zach.

Appreciate it, man. We'll take a timeout, we'll come on back, we'll react to the Bucks saying goodbye to Mike Budenholzer, next. You're listening to The Zach Gelb Show. Alrighty, this is The Zach Gelb Show, broadcasting to you today live in Philadelphia across all of our great local CBS Sports Radio affiliates.

How about this breaking news? The Milwaukee Bucks, I love the wording of this always, they dismissed, according to Adrian Wojnarowski, Mike Budenholzer. That's what sources tell Woj, Budenholzer's out after the East Top seed suffered a first round loss to the Miami Heat. So Budenholzer's tenure has been so up and down in Milwaukee where they won a lot of games, clearly they won a championship, but there were so many times where you were looking at his tenure where fans would want him out. And people know I have a soft spot for Milwaukee, people know I have a good relationship with the listening audience in Milwaukee, I've gone out there, it is just absolutely a wonderful place. And I can't tell you how many times until they got that championship, even with some of the success that Budenholzer did have in terms of taking that team to being a team that you have an idea that could consistently be in a championship kind of spot and have championship expectations.

And I remember doing radio right here on CBS Sports Radio where I would be chanting, dah nah, dah nah nah nah, Bud's gotta go, in kind of a spinoff of Go Pack Go. And today with Budenholzer being out, I can't say it's 110% the right move, but sometimes when you win a championship, you need to reset the organization a few years later eventually to go win another championship. And I'm not just saying this because I'm sitting here in Philadelphia right now, but I was not on board a few years ago after Doug Peterson won a Super Bowl and then shortly after that they fired him of the Eagles kicking Doug Peterson to the curb.

And now we're looking at an Eagles window where they were just in the Super Bowl this year and then for the next two, three years, they should be in a Super Bowl window and that's with bringing in a new head football coach in Nick Sirianni as well. You have Giannis, Giannis is great, but you look at the rest of the team, like is Brook Lopez going to be back next year? He's getting up there in age. Chris Middleton, at times he looks like closer Chris and he's been great and then there's other times he's hurt and it could have cost him another championship last year. Drew Holiday has been up and down as well, even though in the regular season this year, he had a good regular season. Here's the bottom line, and I know Giannis will sit there after the game and people have sympathy for Giannis because people like Giannis and Giannis is a good dude.

And he's one of the more popular stars, not just in the NBA, but in all of sports, like he's genuinely a good dude. When he says that this season's not a failure and basically goes off on the reporter and you had half the people saying, what is he talking about? Absolutely is a failure. And some people getting hypnotized by Giannis Antetokounmpo.

Oh yeah, no, it is definitely not a failure of a season. Well, how can you say that this Milwaukee Bucks season now isn't a failure when the organization just fired the coach? And I know the inner workings of the Bucks organization. From the top down, with the president and Peter Fagan, with the general manager John Horst, with Giannis Antetokounmpo, those guys love Mike Budenholzer. So the fact that they got to this point today, this is not just in the moment, we're annoyed, we're agitated, we have to get rid of Mike Budenholzer.

They clearly felt like this move had to be done. And I'm just curious who the next guy is going to come in to be the next head coach of the Milwaukee Bucks. And this is another point too, because I know we were in lockstep on this when Quinn Snyder shockingly took the Hawks job in the middle of the season. That's why he shouldn't have taken the Hawks job. Because that was a creme de la creme coach that was going to be on the market that was available. And you're telling me you'd rather have the Hawks job than the Milwaukee Bucks job right now?

Obviously, you'd rather have the Bucks job. So I didn't like that Snyder made that move very quickly to Atlanta. And who knows if that's going to work out with Trae Young as well. I know Trae Young had a few good playoff games this year and that series went longer in the first round up against the Boston Celtics.

But I can't sit here today and tell you I'm stunned. I'm a little bit surprised just because I thought the championship and the closeness of the relationship between John Horst and Peter Fagan and Mike Budenholzer may have bought him another year where if you didn't get off to a good start then they would maybe fire you. But this is a team that their biggest fear has always been losing Giannis on to the kumpo. And I know it wasn't that long ago that he signed the Supermax and they did keep the Greek Freak in Milwaukee. But now it's not getting to a point where Giannis gets frustrated. I remember when he won the championship he was like who knows if I'll finish my career out here and all those things that he was saying. But now it's like you got to take advantage of these prime years whether that's changing the roster or making sure that what happened this year doesn't happen again.

But let's not beat around the bush here Hickey. This year for the Bucks is absolutely a failure. And I think we could look at teams that don't win and you don't have to crush them and you don't have to say that they failed. But when you're the number one overall seed and you lose in the first round. I know Miami's gritty. I know Miami's tough.

I know they're not a traditional eight seed. But when you blow games and especially you blow games at home it's very tough even if you have a championship to survive that. Because Bucks management, Bucks ownership knows that all it takes is maybe a few more years or maybe one more year. And I know he's a player option in 2025-2026 for the biggest fear to become a reality where Giannis wants out.

And when you win a championship it's addictive. And when you lose in the first round and you're getting clown it's not fun. And I know Giannis got hurt this year in the playoffs but I think this move was made today because Milwaukee felt like if they were going to win another championship even though Budd has won a championship they needed to move on.

Absolutely and that's why it's the right move. Someone had to pay for this historical first round loss. It's not okay to be losing in the first round in five games nonetheless. I don't even care about Giannis' injury and him missing basically because when he got hurt three games out of the series you were still a good enough team where you should be able to absorb that and still move on in the first round.

Someone's got to pay. It's not going to be Giannis. It's not going to be John Horst. They made the right move in getting rid of Mike Bündenholzer and now going to search for a coach that can truly give you an advantage in the playoffs and prevent from what happened this past season from happening again. I really wonder who is going to be the next Bucks head coach because you never know with these things. Sometimes teams hire within. You know that clearly that's going to be a job that is desired because of the fact that it is Giannis Antetokounmpo and you're talking about who I think was the best player in the league and is the best player in the league.

Some people may change that opinion after the shortcomings in the postseason this year. You do wonder though who's going to be that next coach and sometimes Ryan it may be a coach that is active right now that may see this job available and then maybe says, you know what, maybe I want out of my current job and I want to go somewhere else. So, nothing would surprise me if it's someone on the staff right now and I don't usually like that when you fire someone and replace someone within or if it's someone that's active even in the league right now because who are the coaches that are out there that are really desirable.

Like Imeodoka was just swept up. Quinn Snyder is now with the Atlanta Hawks. I'm really curious who the next coach is going to be.

The name I go to right away, Nick Nurse. Won a title with the Raptors. You're right. Won a title with one star in Kawhi Leonard. You kind of have a similar right now build in Milwaukee although I would say the surrounding pieces are a little bit better but still you kind of get the point. There's no real dynamic duo there in Milwaukee. I think that's kind of the name that Bucks fans should be looking for. If I was a Bucks fan, I'd be excited if Nick Nurse was the next head coach. You know what?

That is an excellent point that you bring up and that's got to be the top candidate out there. I'll give you one more name and I don't know what his contract situation is like and if he could get out of it or maybe if you find a way to figure out some trade compensation. What about Ty Lue? Do you think there's any way Ty Lue says I'm looking at this team with Los Angeles right now and Kawhi's never healthy, Paul George isn't healthy, we know how respected Ty Lue is. Does maybe Ty Lue try to find his way out of Los Angeles to go join the Milwaukee Bucks with Giannis Antetokounmpa as an XA coach?

I would say no. I think he likes LA, I think he likes the roster and coaching the guys. I know it's frustrating that they've been hurt and not available but I would be very surprised if he leaves. Because you hear Ty Lue speak after games, he just looks so worn out in Los Angeles because that's got to be the most maddening thing when you know when healthy your team could be a championship team but then they're never healthy. Even when these guys are injured, they played a good five games up against the Phoenix Suns.

A few years ago, when they lose Kawhi, they get to the Western Conference Finals and you just wonder if they were healthy, what they would be able to do. So we'll take a time out here on the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio. When we come on back, surprise surprise Hickey, I just got a text from Bart Winkler, he's going to join us, he wants to react to the Mike Bootenholzer firing. And you know Bart Winkler, have you ever put that together Hickey, that Bart Winkler is a spinning image of Mike Bootenholzer? You know when Bart posts his podcast, it's video form, there are definitely some resemblances with the beard especially. So maybe Bart will be the next head coach of the Milwaukee Bucks. You're listening to the Zach Gelb show. The Zach Gelb show CBS Sports Radio, the Milwaukee Bucks have parted ways, dismissed, fired, whatever word you want to use, Mike Bootenholzer, so now they will search for a new coach. Let's go out to the guest line and bring in the biggest Milwaukee Bucks fan I know and ironically he does also look like Mike Bootenholzer. That of course is Bart Winkler, you can hear here on CBS Sports Radio.

Bart, what's happening? Well, we won a title two years ago and now we need a new coach, that's pretty great. Here's the thing, Giannis said this season wasn't a failure, how do you justify that one now when the organization says they need a new coach? Okay, so I'm still not happy with Giannis for those comments.

I think that in the whole sports world, like making campaigns about it, it was the most LinkedIn press conference of all time. It was a failure and I understand like in sports we can have this debate and we do all the time, what's a failure, what's not a failure? What he was saying is, look this is a step towards the next success. Okay, well if there's going to be another success then you can look back and say, yeah that was part of the journey. You know, when they won the title a couple years ago, there were playoff failures prior to that that were a part of the journey.

Okay, that was part of the journey. But we don't know that there's going to be another success after this. And again, yeah, he's got to be thinking, okay I just went on my podium, talked about how it's not a failure, which by the way got everyone talking about that instead of his abysmal performance in the fourth quarter of that game five. And then you fire your head coach? I mean, there needs to be some sort of correction onto what he, I know he's very in tune and we're lucky to have him and I'm not ever trying to come to the spot of Giannis slander.

But if that's not a failure, if being the one seed and losing to the Miami Heat, if then having your coach dismiss, if that's not a failure, I don't know that he'll ever understand what failure is. From your understanding, how is the relationship between Giannis onto the kumpo and Mike Boonenholzer? I don't, I've never heard a complaint from these players about coach Fudd. I think ultimately they like this guy. You know, they obviously won a title with him. He came in here after Jason Kidd kind of got everything he could out of that current unit and I don't think Jason Kidd was ever going to win a championship in Milwaukee, just like he had a bad year in Dallas. So I don't see like, I don't see them, you know, celebrating, Oh yeah, we got to get rid of a coach.

Now we can, I think it's, I think they should be a little introspective because it's ultimately on them. Like coach Mike Boonenholzer probably after this performance should have got fired. I think that you look at the last handful of years and the year they didn't win a championship or the year they did win a championship, obviously. But every, every other year there's been some sort of criticism on him. He didn't make adjustments.

You didn't call him out. He didn't switch up the lineup. There's been so many different reasons where you could look at Bud as an example of why they didn't win. The year that they did win, Rick Carlisle was available and it looked like the Bucks were going to lose to the Nets and it looked like Bud was going to get fired. And it looked like Rick Carlisle was already on his way to Milwaukee. And then of course they win, he saves his job or whatever.

So I think that, I think this is more of a situation of, ah man, I mean that's terrible. We let our coach down. But also he, I think from a basketball standpoint, probably deserved to be fired. And I think what the Bucks are looking at here, Zach, is they're looking at, like a few years ago, John Horst, the GM, had said, my mission is to get Giannis to stay here.

That's my job. That's what I'm here to do, to get Giannis to stay here. And I think the Bucks put everything into making sure Giannis stays in Milwaukee and then winning a championship with this guy. You know, we can argue now if they only win once, was that enough?

But if they never won any, that would be, that would be a sin in NBA circles and in basketball history. So they were built and they built towards winning a championship with Giannis and then a cupo. And now that they did that, they don't have a backup plan. They don't have a, they don't know what's next. They got to their destination. They don't know how to get any further. And I think that's fine. I think it's fine that they made their goal, their goal was a championship, but now they have to figure out how to win another one.

Because you do have one of the best players in the world and you have had seasons where you've got bounced a lot sooner than you should have. They should still be playing. They should be playing tonight.

That is a sin. That is a crime that they're not still playing in this tournament. So I think they need to figure out what's next. And I don't think that Coach Bud's dismissal is going to be the solution we move forward. I think there's some roster shakeups that need to happen. We'll see over the course of this offseason if that happens. And that's ultimately why I think this move was made today is because yes, they were able to keep Giannis. Yes, they were able to win a championship, but 2025, 2026, he has a player option. You got to do everything in your power to make sure that Giannis wants to stay and not want out before then and during then. And ultimately, I think with the way these last two years have gone, sure, last year, Middleton gets hurt.

What can you do? But this year was just so bad. It's time to kind of reset and retool in an East that is not all that great.

And you need a little extra juice now to this situation to get them back to another title. Yeah, I can say for myself, I haven't thought too much about Will Giannis. I haven't thought too much about his next contractual decision. I just know that in the next couple of years, they've got Drew Holliday for two years under contract. They've got Chris Middleton, who will probably take a player option. And Brook Lopez is a free agent.

I think that that's kind of the period here. And it times up with Giannis' next decision or whatever. But you've got to figure out what you're going to do here in the next handful of years with this core group of guys. I think had they gone further, had they won a championship, got to the NBA Finals and lost, everybody's coming back. But because they lost so early, and especially when they lost so early, I think that there is an opportunity here for the Bucs to say, all right, what do we need to do to, yes, keep Giannis long-term, but how are we going to be competitive still? We can't keep going into the playoffs and letting these teams have their all-time greatest three-point shooting effort against us. We can't keep going into the playoffs and needing to rely on Giannis, and then he gets to the free throw line, and then everybody's counting to ten. I mean, we can't keep doing that. If we're going to win another championship, there's got to be something different. We won it with this group, and that's great. But I don't know that they have another one in them.

In fact, I don't think they do. So I think this is the beginning of changes, many changes to come. Nick Nurse is going to probably be the first name that is thrown out there. I threw out maybe Ty Lue is just frustrated with all the injuries with the Clippers, and he tries to force his way out of Los Angeles. What are some of the names that come to mind when you talk about the replacement for Mike Budenholzer? You know, his bench has done good.

You know, there's Taylor Jenkins in Memphis, Darvin Ham now in L.A. Charles Lee is a name that, I mean, I can't break down Charles Lee for you, but he is a name that keeps getting thrown around when these vacancies open. I know there are a lot of people thinking of Nick Nurse, even though if you say Bud Road. To be honest, to a championship, can't you say the same thing about Nurse in Kauai? I think that Nick Nurse would bring some different possibilities and different adjustments here.

Sometimes I come up with the peg first, and then I need to do my homework. I just gut feeling I don't think Nick Nurse is the right guy, and I can't answer anything other than gut feeling. Maybe I just don't like him from when the Raptors beat us three years ago, and he bought a hat that said his initials on it, N.N. And he wears glasses even though he doesn't need them.

He just wears them for style even though he can see. So I think it might be that. I don't know. I don't know what you do. Is it better to go outside, or is it better to stay within maybe?

I would personally go outside. Hey, before we let you run, it's got to annoy you that your former quarterback Aaron Rodgers is being now like the world's greatest teammate, taking sauce gardener to the Knicks game, having him talk it up with Jessica Alba, going to all these practices. You've got to be annoyed with Rodgers, right?

No. Out of sight, out of mind, man. This guy got dumped. He is going on Facebook. He got his new gym membership. He got a new group of friends. He's in a book club for the first time in forever. That's fine.

Whatever you need to do externally to make us forget how much pain you feel internally. The only one he needs to convince that he's better off right now is himself. We're fine. Bart Winkler, you can hear him tomorrow on this show, as I have a wedding rehearsal dinner to go to and then a wedding on Saturday, so Bart will be filling in for me. Bart, appreciate the time as always. Rodgers might be there. Who knows with this guy where he's showing up.

That is a possibility. Thanks so much, Bart. You're the best. There he is, Bart Winkler joining us. There's a great job here for us on CBS Sports Radio. The big news, Mike Boonenholzer out of a job. Won a championship a few years ago.

Today fired and someone had to pay for the Milwaukee Bucks going out in the first round. We'll take a break. When we come on back, we will get into the NFC QB tiers. Yesterday was the AFC. Kyle Brant has a list out today for the NFC. I've made my own list. We'll get to that next. Zach Gilp's show. CBS Sports Radio coming on back.