Roger Goodell’s Purpose (Hour 1)

Good afternoon, everybody. CBS Sports Radio in for Zach Gelb. Today, I am Bart Winkler.

And it is great to be back here again for Zach Attack. He only lets me call him that. I call him or the Big Z sometimes. I'll call him that. Those are just little pet names that I specifically have for Zach. He calls me B-dubs or that idiot from Milwaukee that's filling in for me on Wednesday.

You know, just little pet names. Nothing too substantial. Nothing too crazy. Again, I'm Bart Winkler, 855-212-4227, 855-212-4CBS, Stu Kovacs, Mike Samter are along with us as usual, and of course, you guys. We will talk to Sean Devaney a little later. We're going to talk some NBA as that starts on Tuesday. The NBA is here. I think there's been a little uptick in preseason viewership. You know, these games seem to be on a little bit more.

Maybe this is purely anecdotal. I haven't seen one number to tell me either way, but it does seem like people are getting a little anxious and getting a little more excited for the NBA earlier in the season. There's a lot of buzz around the NBA, as there should be. Big trades. Trades still happening.

Trades that could still happen. James Harden doesn't show up today at practice, so who knows where he'll end up, if anywhere. But yeah, the NBA starts next week, and I'm really looking to get into that. They have the NBA Cup, which starts in a few weeks. This is funny, so I get an email from the Milwaukee Bucks about, you know, theme nights.

Like, hey, this is Veterans Night, or hey, this is like, you know, Kids Day, or you know, whatever. All these teams have their theme nights. But in the theme night listing, they listed NBA Cup game.

Like, they're still not sure how to process what entirely this is or what it's going to look like. And that's one of the things that Adam Silver, the NBA commissioner, is really focused on trying to bring to the NBA regular season, is some new kind of excitement, a new tournament of sorts, a new just reason to get up for some of these games that maybe some of us, you know, in a November midweek game, we pass by. There'll be select Tuesday and Friday night games. The Eastern teams are regrouped, but then they'll play the teams in the East, same with the West. So we'll make these teams travel a bunch more in the second half of the season.

I don't know if that's going to come into play at all with the new rest rules or anything, but it is going to be different. And we'll see, it's basically, we're going to decide and the players are going to decide how much we want to care about the NBA Cup. If they care about it, then it's fun. If we care about it, it'll be great. Even if we care about it in like a joking way, like we kind of think it's dumb, but deep down we kind of like it, then it'll be fun.

But if it's just the same old game, then it will be dumb. But this is a commissioner who is trying to do new things for his league because all of these commissioners, I think, maybe not all, and we'll get to that, but all of these commissioners, their goal, I feel like a commissioner has two goals. There's two goals for a commissioner. It is, at first, when I was a kid, I thought it was make the sport as cool as possible. Just do what's best for the sport. I found out that that was a little misguided because commissioners, I think, when I first thought, I even saw these commissioners that would run these leagues, I basically thought commissioner meant best fan gets to be in charge of the league. This is a fan who's looking out for the fans and he just wants to make the league as good as possible.

That's what I thought it was. Then I saw strikes happen in pretty much every sport and I realized what a commissioner is there for. A commissioner is there to guide the sport along into the future while trying to make as much money as possible.

This guy's job exists for money. Also, to deflect when things need to be talked about, when owners get in hot water, when the league itself is going through some situations that they don't want to answer for, he is basically the figurehead to and he or she, depending on the league, the figurehead to answer for some of those things that happen. I realized that that's the case when I find out the salaries of these guys, specifically one Roger Goodell, who has a new deal. He got a three-year extension today. The NFL has officially extended Roger Goodell for three more years through March of 2027. He is 64. Previous commissioners before him, Paul Tagliabue was 65. And then Pete Rozelle stepped down when he was 63. Goodell is 64. He would be 67 when this comes to an end.

And it might be his last ride. And along the way, he'll groom whoever the next commissioner will be. And then whoever it is, this is a massive job. You basically held this job for 20 years. It's more than a president. It's not as much as a Supreme Court. Some would say this guy, if you're the NFL commissioner, maybe you are the most powerful person in America.

I don't know. Top five? Certainly top ten. Sixty-three-some-million dollars Roger Goodell brings in per season, which is, I think, astronomical. I mean, for that much money, obviously they have to make a lot of money to then give him that much money.

But the league has decided, yeah, he is worth that. Or a commissioner in general is worth that to be the one to guide them through the future and then to also be the shield. Really, I think more than anything, where he gets paid is to be the guy that answers questions. When things come up, you know, if there is an instance where we went through the DeMar Hamlin thing, or if there's any safety concerns, or if there's lawsuits with CTE, or if there's hiring practices that some feel are unfair or get questioned, that is why the commissioner exists to me.

It's more to be the person that takes the heat. He's basically the press secretary of the NFL. Yeah, he's more than that. He's responsible for more than that. But I think that's why he makes $65 million, is because he's the one that gets booed. He's the one that, you know, people are insulting.

He's the one that, you know, people are making clown t-shirts of, while all the other owners just kind of get a free pass. Sure, they're open to their own criticism for things that they do, and they say, and they tweet Jimmer say, but for the most part, the commissioner is kind of the guy who takes all the heat. Now, if you look at where football has come, specifically the NFL from 2006 until now, obviously the NFL is like, yes, you are, well, his tenure is a success, right? Roger Goodell's tenure has been a success.

I do wonder how much of the growth of the league you can attribute to Roger Goodell, and how much of the growth of the league since 2006 you can attribute to other factors. Like right now, there is one thing that we all talk about at the same time, and we all watch at the same time, and that's the National Football League, right? There's a lot of things going on. I try to figure out like what's in the pop culture zeitgeist, you know, what's going on, and I think of the little corners of the world that I like, like I'm a big Marvel guy. I'm waiting for a new Loki on Thursday.

Can I go to the water cooler, so to speak, the next day at the office and say, hey, did you see Loki? And people will say, oh, no, I'm waiting till the season ends, and then I'll watch them all. Or, oh, no, I didn't catch it yet. I'll stream it this weekend. Okay. People will say, hey, you're watching the Golden Bachelor?

Pretty crazy. You might catch a couple of people at work that watch it, but again, oh, yeah, I got to catch up on that. We're busy last night. Things don't happen at a specific time anymore.

Things don't happen where we all have to be there or we're going to miss it. Sports is kind of that last beacon, and the NFL being as important as anything else. So I do wonder a little bit, does Goodell, because the NFL is the one thing that we all watch at the same time in record numbers. If the NBA Finals are on, you like the NBA, you watch it.

You're watching the World Series. But the NFL consistently is bringing in 25 to 30 million people a week for games that really aren't even that good. I saw a top five games that were broadcast this year so far.

The opening night game, I think, was the first. And then there were a bunch of games where either the Jets got destroyed or the Cowboys got destroyed. Not necessarily good games, but because of the different things that go along, like the Dallas Cowboys being America's team, which I will talk about a little bit later.

I agree a lot with what Micah Parsons had to say today. So Cowboys Nation, I got you. I'm not a Cowboys fan. I am not. But I like watching them play, and I root for them. And I defend them on the radio. But I am not a fan.

Do not think for a second that I am. So that is something that we'll get into a little bit later. But yeah, this is the sport that gets all the attention. It's football.

It's the last beacon of a kind of water cooler, which those don't, I mean, do they? But that's kind of the last beacon of communal activity and communal pop culture. And obviously, I can't bring this up without saying what has happened with the whole Travis Kelcey, Taylor Swift relationship, how that's brought a new set of eyeballs in.

And maybe that's one of Goodell's blunders or missteps. They've been so focused, because they thought they conquered the American audience. They thought every single person that wants to watch us in this country is already watching us. I mean, look at the record now, Super Bowl, 100 million people. We've already got the numbers. Let's go to Europe. Let's send teams over there. Let's really invest. Let's give these other countries, assign them what their home team is, which is kind of weird. Let's do that.

No, no, no. All you had to do was have Taylor Swift go and watch some of the worst teams. What has she been to so far? A Jets game, a Bears game. And there was another bad team she saw. Was it the Broncos? Like really bad teams. These are bad teams. The Vikings.

Yeah. But she didn't go to the Vikings game. That was the one game she skipped. Not even Taylor Swift could go to go to Minnesota, but she went and saw some bad teams.

Okay. And she is bringing in a whole new set of fans. So maybe Goodell was wrong to go across the pond, but that is kind of their goal.

He wants to make football more of a global sport. I think you're going to see that more. I think that there is a little bit of, they got to be cautious with how deep they go into the streaming part of it. I think there's a game that's going to be on Peacock this year, exclusively, not just in the regular season, but the playoffs, which I understand they're trying to go on every, you know, there's Amazon, there's ESPN Plus, there's cable, there's the broadcast networks. There's a playoff game on streaming.

I think they got to kind of tiptoe into the water on that because you can't, you got to make it accessible. You can't make it, you know, 15 different channels that I have to memorize that we'll start to alienate some people, but for the most part football, I mean, football, obviously since 2006 and in 2006, the NFL was huge. The NFL, you kind of felt like a changing of the guard in the nineties where the NFL kind of took over from major league baseball and NBA with Michael Jordan.

But it's clear like right now you can't have any debate. In the sixties, seventies, eighties, you could debate what's the biggest sport in the country, what's America's pastime. Not for one single year of Goodell's tenure have you been able to debate that. And the NBA has had lockouts, the MLB has had situations, and the NFL for the most part has chugged along and only gotten bigger and only gotten better. I just wonder how much of that is attributed to Roger Goodell and how much is other factors at play. Gambling has gotten big. Daily fantasy sports has certainly helped the NFL and eventually they came around to that.

So good for the NFL for recognizing it and not shying away from that. But look at where we're at now. We've got six games internationally. We've got a team in Las Vegas for better or for worse. We've got Thursday night football on a platform that didn't exist 10 years ago. We've got Sunday night football bigger than ever. Monday night football's back.

30 million people every Sunday. Fantasy and draft kings and the consistent discussion about the league is a constant churn. And the draft's gotten bigger than ever. Free agency and the combine matters for some reason.

So yeah, it's in a much better place. Obviously, he gets credit. I wonder how much of that is just how society changed and how much like basically I don't think he's worth $65 million is what I'm saying.

But the NFL does and he gets the money. So we are either stuck with him or we get to enjoy him for another three years. Roger Goodell signing a contract extension today. 855-212-4227.

855-212-4CBS. More on this great league of ours and what to expect this coming weekend. We'll do a little of that coming up next. Bart Winkler in for Zach Elb, CBS Sports Radio. Yeah, rise up Wisconsin.

Oh yeah. I'm Bart Winkler in the Badger State. What a great state it is. If you guys haven't gotten here, you got to come. A lot of great events coming to Milwaukee soon.

I think there's one of the parties are having their political convention next year. We got the NFL draft coming to Green Bay in two years. The NBA won't give Milwaukee an all-star game for some reason. I don't know why. We built a new stadium for you, Silver. Mr. Silverman. Built you a new stadium. Built a whole little entertainment district around it.

Was it too cold in February? Okay, I'm sorry. All your like, everything happens indoors.

You know, you're going to be fine. Oh, and also Milwaukee has Damian Lillard and Giannis Adetokounmpo on the same team, which I think that is a big deal. But because it happened in Milwaukee, somehow Boston got better by taking the guy the Bucks traded away. We'll talk to Sean Devaney about that in a couple of minutes because I have thoughts and I have takes. NBA wise, the Bucks and the Nuggets.

That's who it is. Celtics are third. And then, I don't know, the Suns. Warriors think they have another run in them. Warriors have about a 500 record since they lost KD.

I know that they had the year that they were down and rebuilding, but I don't know. The Kings, you don't want to want to lay some claim. Basically, the East is two teams. I don't know what Miami did last year.

Thanks for playing. Philly is a disaster. They need to trade hard in and I think they need to trade in B, honestly, and start that thing from scratch. Who else is in the East?

Who else is there? I mean, the Bulls? The Knicks?

No. The West, pretty wide open except for the Nuggets. Lakers should be good, but can't wait for it. It should be a fun ride that starts next week. 8-5-5-2-1-2-4-2-2-7. 8-5-5-2-1-2-4-C-B-S. One thing that I was looking at, we're talking about the NFL a little bit and just how massive it's gotten over the last, well really, 20 years.

17, 18 years, the tenure of Roger Goodell since he took over in 2006. And it is bigger. I think it's bigger than it's ever been.

Just in terms of the attention given to it, the amount that it dominates, the coverage. The NFL is a business that keeps a lot of people employed, whether it's yackers like me or you go to these towns and there's Green Bay, for example. There are businesses, there are hotels that exist only for the eight home games a year where they can charge $400 a night. Every other night you can get the room for $39. And these are the kind of motels that you see where it still flashes free HBO.

That's the draw. No Wi-Fi yet. No continental breakfast.

The pool is only open in the summertime. They got free HBO. These are these kind of hotels. They're going for $400, $500 a pop when the Packers are home. And that's keeping everybody in business. So the NFL massive just in the last 17 years under Goodell, is that more of a cultural thing? Is that more of a Goodell thing?

Is that kind of a both thing? And I think what the NFL is trying to do, I worry that eventually they're going to get too big or I wonder what's the thing that's going to make it crumble. I think a full division in Europe is a bad news. And there was that story he was quoted like, yeah, we'd love to have a Super Bowl in London someday.

I hope that didn't get too much coverage or traction or get too many legs. When Roger Goodell goes to London and they ask him about having a Super Bowl there, a lot of PTSD for me for my college years, chasing after ladies that friend-zoned you very quickly. And you have a few one night and you're at the bar and you say, could we ever be together? And she says, yeah, someday your great husband material.

And then you're like, Oh my God, maybe someday. And then for the next five years, she dates all your friends. That's what, that's what you're in the friend zone.

London is what's it. You are in the friend zone. We'll keep coming to you on our terms. You know, we really like as much as we like going there and having like a new audience and you know, helping you build these new stadiums and giving us another trip. We like the early morning window that we can have also on our TV partners.

That's really what we like. You know, we, we like that we can provide a another game at a time when we think that we're all gamed out. The NFL, if they could, I think would, they would have Tuesday night football and Wednesday night football and Friday night football, but at some point they know it's overkill. Oh, let's sneak a game here on Sunday morning.

People are up anyway watching the pregame, just setting lineups and waiting for the games. Let's give them another TV window. So that that your friend zone London, the day London gets a Superbowl is, is not a day that exists. They will get a Superbowl on February 30th is when they will get a Superbowl.

It is not happening. Sunday night football. I was looking at this today. I was looking at Sunday night football, the schedule, because at the beginning of the year, what they try to do is schedule the most premier games.

Obviously they want the best of the best. And they do offer the flex scheduling, which they're going to need to use, I think, but they try to look ahead and say, all right, if we didn't have to flex any games, what would be the premier schedule that we could get every week? And I look ahead here and Sunday night football has been funny so far because there's been games that you expect to be good that are not.

And then vice versa. First week of the season, Cowboys Giants was supposed to be a great game. It was 40 to nothing. Dolphins played the Patriots.

That was all right. Steelers and Raiders. That was, that was no good of a game, but it was actually a pretty compelling game. Some coaching blunders helped that, but that was good. Chiefs and Jets. Ah, Rogers is hurt. That's not going to be a good game.

23-20, a really good game. Plus you had the whole Taylor Swift side show, which by the way, I think would have been the networks to have her. Amazon had her at a game and I think they did well. Fox had the first one.

That was fine. NBC. NBC was a little overkill, little too much. Niners and Cowboys. That was supposed to be a great game. Stunk. Bills and Giants was supposed to be a laugher.

Pretty competitive. I still don't know how the Bills won that game. That, everybody knows that was holding on Darren Waller.

And they can say what they want. It was holding on Darren. I mean, he got held. He got held. It just, they didn't want to call it back to back plays. It's very clear. Human nature does take over.

In some of these situations. Do we need robot oomps in the NFL? 8-5-5-2-1-2.

4-2-2-7. Ah, this Sunday. Oh my gosh. I mean, dolphins, Eagles. Are you, are you joking me?

You gotta be joking me. Then look what we got coming up. Expect some flexing in the near future. The one in five bears are set to take on the two and three chargers. Yikes. Ah, week 10. The Jets are going to the Raiders. That might stay. Both teams are around 500.

I don't know. We'll see. Both of those teams are three and three and you're like, what? The two and four Vikings go to the one in five Broncos.

Yeah. So three of the next four weeks, you have like six of the eight worst teams coming up on Sunday night football. And I haven't seen any flex news yet on, uh, on bears chargers. I don't, I don't know if they're going to stick with that or go with that, but that is certainly interesting. The Sunday night schedule that is coming up here, but I I'm, I'm invested into it, man. I I'd love the NFL. I think I talked about this last time.

I just can't get enough of this. I don't really credit Roger Goodell for that, but again, if they want to continue to give him $65 million, they can. I think, you know, I have, is it, this might just be me, but I have, uh, more friends than I thought that don't watch the NFL in the same way that I do. Like I have one friend who's a bears fan and he has like radio shows that he does. And if the bears start at noon central, his show ends at noon central and he'll just drive home with not a care in the world and listen to the radio, but like music. And then when he gets home at 1230, then he'll start the game from scratch on the DVR. I have another friend who I can't, I try to text him stuff on Monday morning about games that have happened, but I'm not even sure he's watched the Sunday. He tapes the games, he tapes red zone and then watches it at his convenience and ignores the phone, ignores the internet. I don't know how he's able to pull it off, but I think that's, I think that's sickle behavior. I mean, or maybe I'm the sickle behavior. If there is an NFL game going on, I need to see it.

I don't care if it's my team or if I have money on it or I'm invested in it or in any way, I don't care. I must see it at every single possible time. We were doing pictures with my kid the other day.

Okay. Pictures with my kid and you know, Sunday morning, real nice setting. You gotta be attentive. And the whole time, like I, you had to crop me out of the frame because I had my phone watching Buffalo Jacksonville. It's like, I didn't have, I'm not a big, like I like both teams, but I could always, I can't, I can't miss a game.

You know, I have to see every single second of this league as it happens. Thursday night, the black Friday game, these random games on Saturday coming up. Christmas day, there's going to be three games. Well, I guess I'm not celebrating Christmas. You know, I'm already that way on Thanksgiving. I have to see them all.

It is, it is the greatest, just the greatest sport in the world. And we should have a really good week this week. I would think Jacksonville and the saints tomorrow night, hopefully Trevor Lawrence plays. I know there's some question about that, but you've got, you've got Detroit and Baltimore Detroit.

We're going to talk about today. I think they are in such a good spot. I think they are in such a good spot. Detroit can kind of coast behind the Niners and the Eagles. They're going to get all the attention in the NFC and people will start thinking about Detroit a little more, but they're going to be locked into, all right, they're the third best team.

When really by the end of the year, it's possible they are, they are the best team. A lot of teams that are 500 or three and two playing each other. And then the big one on Sunday night, Miami and Philadelphia, both five and one, that is going to be a really, really fun game to check out. So fun week ahead in the National Football League for sure. And of course, we'll have you covered all Sunday with Ion Football with Zach Gelb, as he does every single Sunday. 855-212-4227. We'll talk some NBA coming up with Sean Devaney.

I do want to talk about how I do think it's pretty top heavy, but that doesn't mean we're not going to be in for a really fun and really exciting season, which starts next week. That'll be in just a few moments. This moment, here is an update with Rich Ackerman. CBS Sports Radio, my name is Bart Winkler. 855-212-4227. It is time, as always, to ask the pros, where you, the listener, gets to ask us a question brought to you by O'Reilly Auto Parts.

All you got to do is send us your question at CBS Sports Radio, or you can hit me up. I'm at winksthinks, okay? At winksthinks. And then you can say, winks doesn't think when I say something dumb.

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Get guaranteed low prices and excellent customer service from the professional parts people at O'Reilly Auto Parts. Want to bring in Sean Devaney to the program. You can catch his work at heavy.com, insider there for the NBA.

And Sean, it's great to have you on. Sean, I should preface this by telling you that I am a Bucks fan, which there's nothing wrong with that, but that's where I'm all up in arms, is because my Milwaukee Bucks trade for Damian Lillard to pair him with Giannis Adenakounmpo. I think when I first got triggered by everything was when they make this trade and people were like, well, they're not perfect, perfect. And then Drew Holliday goes to the Celtics, which big deal, good, good addition. But then somehow the odds went back in favor for Boston after acquiring the guy that had been traded out here.

So I'm just like, don't, I'm going to ask you, but don't tell me that Boston's better than Milwaukee, okay? I mean, I, you know, look, I think I understand why Milwaukee did what they did with, with, with Lillard. You know, that, that they felt like they'd sort of reached the plateau with the team that they had. And that Lillard is a guy who can help push them above it. But I also think, you know, and obviously I'm not alone in this, that, that he is a defensive liability that, that as you get deep in the playoffs, that's something that, that teams are going to be able to pick on.

And, and, and that's probably going to be an Achilles heel for that team. So yeah, I, you know, I, to not only have Lillard come in and, and give you that joke, but then to have True Holiday come in and give Boston a joke, you know, and really Boston, I thought had, had kind of tied itself in knots with, with what they did this summer, losing Marcus Smart and bringing in Chris Stepps Porzingis. I wasn't a huge fan of, of Boston summer until they bring in True Holiday. And now, you know, things make a little more sense for them.

So I'm sorry, Bart, but I gotta go, I gotta go with the consensus on this. And that is that, you know, the Celtics really made up pretty well in all this. I think the Celtics made, like, I, I'm, I think they did too.

I think they did too. I just think that, like, I think when it comes down to Sean is if that, uh, the Bucks stayed still and the Celtics were the ones that ended up with Damian Lillard. Well then, I mean, cause for, for some reason there's like a, I feel like there's a Celtics bias some, for some reason, and maybe I'm wrong, but that's just how I feel.

And I do think like, you know, Drew kind of did get cooked by Jimmy Butler a little bit. I don't know, but it's certainly I'll, I'll, you know, you can, you can address whatever I just said there, but then I'll pivot a little bit too is, is that's it though in the East, like it's Miami's done. Philly is a mess. The Knicks, okay, close enough.

The Cavs will win games, but how far? I don't think the conversation goes any further than Milwaukee and Boston. Yeah, I, I, I agree with that.

Um, and, and, and yeah, you're right. I mean, look, you know, a lot of what, what Drew does, uh, is still on reputation and, and, and he's getting up there on age and I don't think he does it quite as well as he did. Uh, but you know, with, with Boston, I think the other thing with the Celtics, I'd say is, uh, when you trade away, uh, Marcus smart, you're trading away a culture guy. Uh, and I don't think that Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum, at least at this point have shown that they can be, you know, culture guys. They can be the guys who, who really lead in that locker room, uh, Drew Holliday can. So I, I thought that was a big replacement for them, uh, on that level, uh, as well. So yeah, you know, but, but you're right.

The Eastern conference, you know, talent wise, it's Milwaukee and Boston, and then it's, it's, it's a pretty steep drop after that. I think the mix have a chance to make noise. Certainly, uh, they're, they're, they're a team that is poised to do something on the trade market that could certainly change their, their fortunes. Uh, they've been very patient with that.

They haven't just gone after every shiny object that comes by them the way that they used to. Uh, and that's good, but, uh, uh, you know, at some time, you know, they've got to take all the parts they have and maybe put, put together a package and, uh, and then, and make themselves contender. Now, I think that's the one team that could really sneak in and, uh, uh, and be dangerous here. Yeah.

So I think after, uh, and we're talking with Sean Devaney, uh, heavy.com, you can check out his work. I think that like clearly, so there's, there's two teams, like it's a two horse race, but that doesn't mean that the other 13 should just be like, ah, well, maybe next year. I mean, things could happen. Uh, it could not work. There could be injuries.

You never know. And so, yeah, maybe the Knicks are that team, maybe the Cavs. I think though, if I was in charge of the Sixers and here's, here's the James Harden stuff, but also like if I was the Sixers, I would look at what's happened this last decade.

I've gotten nothing from a, from a, uh, like success standpoint. Hey, we've had nice seasons. Joel just won the MVP. Okay. Cute.

We've never been to a conference championship. I would, I would look to move him also at some point, I would really blow it up to find them. And basically if they have to trade James Harden, like, I don't know what they're gonna get in return for that, but the Sixers team, I just, I just, I don't see a path forward for them, especially with the two in front of them. Yeah. And, and, you know, James Harden certainly took a lot of criticism, uh, for what happened in the playoffs last year against Boston. But you know, Joel Embiid was, was 5 for 18, uh, in that, uh, uh, in that final game and at 15 points and, uh, four turnovers, he was everything that's responsible for the Sixers not going forward as has been a case in the past. You know, he kind of dodges that, that responsibility a little bit.

I'm not saying that he doesn't take responsibility himself. He's always done that, but you know, he doesn't get the same amount of criticism as, as the guys around him, whether it was Ben Simmons, uh, or now James Harden. Uh, and you know, at some point you've got to say, is this, is this our guy? Uh, you know, I think back to the way back, if you go back to the, when the whole process started, but you know, the whole thing with Sam Pinky and all that, one thing that a lot of NBA people were saying at the time was the thing that you worry about is the brain and these young guys into this losing culture and to get their teeth kicked in from the beginning. And they're saying that it's okay to get your teeth kicked in, uh, that, that, that's going to create sort of a losing mentality in that organization. And even as they've gotten better, it does see there, there, there, you can say that there's some credence to that. When you look at what's happened to Ben Simmons, you look at what's happened to Joel Embiid, sort of the two main products of the process, you know, you can say that, that, that those are two guys who don't seem to know how to win.

And, and maybe that goes back to the fact that, that they were taught to lose, uh, you know, their first three, four years in the NBA. Talk with Sean Devaney here, Bart Winkler in for Zach Galb, CBS Sports Radio. Uh, how about, how about this? I'm going to, so those are my Eastern conference questions. Now I'm going to go to the Western conference. Um, and I'm going to ask you about, are the Thunder ever going to do anything with any of these picks? Cause they just traded for more.

Yeah. Uh, it's a good question because, um, you know, I, it is funny because you talk to GMs and they'll say, you know, they'll all complain about, uh, about draft picks and how everybody overvalues them. Uh, and then, you know, they'll say that to you and then you go out and you'll read and you'll see that when they're actually dealing with other teams, they're overvaluing them too. You know, everybody, everybody loves having these picks. Uh, but, uh, you know, in the end you wind up, you know, you wind up with an 18th pick in the, in the draft and maybe you get somebody decent chances are you're not going to, uh, and, and you wonder what, what all the fuss was over the draft pick. But yeah, you know, that Thunder team I think could be really interesting.

They could be a lot of fun. Um, but yeah, they need to, they need to, if they're going to be serious about being a contender, now's the time. I mean, Shane Gildas Alexander is a top 10 player in the league.

I think he's established that. Uh, we'll see where, how Chet Holmgren comes along. Uh, you know, they've got some real talent on that team and they've got so many assets that they could turn into, uh, a player who could put them over the top sooner rather than later. Obviously in the Western Conference, the Nuggets can stay claim to, um, the best team in that conference. Obviously they won the title. I think they did a great job, not only getting great play from Jokic, but building a team that, uh, it just works. Everything just seemed to work and they had a pretty, you know, there were teams that like, I thought that Laker series was the best four oh series you're ever going to have competitive games. But at the end of the day, it was a sweep. I still kind of, so if the Nuggets like, okay, it's one, two, whatever we disagree on in the East, but in the West it's Nuggets.

And then, and then who would be next for you? Yeah. You know, it would probably be the Lakers. Um, you know, it has been the case really for the last, uh, uh, going back to the bubble. Um, you know, it's, it's really about LeBron and Anthony Davis being healthy. I think that's the best supporting cast around those two guys that they've had, even here, they won the championship.

Um, you know, this, this, this supporting cast makes the most sense around them. It's got the most talent. Um, so they're, they're, they're certainly primed for a big season, but it all goes to the, to, by the wayside is if they can't stay healthy and LeBron at age 38 and Anthony Davis with his history and injuries, uh, you know, you just can't count on that, but you know, talent wise on paper, uh, you know, they should be right there with the Nuggets. I think it goes, uh, Denver and the Lakers really, uh, nipping there and dipping out their heels there at the top of the West as good as Phoenix is. Uh, and, and, and we'll see what happens about the waters, you know, if they can bounce back, uh, you know, fully healthy, um, you know, they, they're, they're certainly in it and, and you have to consider Memphis, but I think it is Denver and the Lakers, uh, out West right now.

All right. Then last one for you quickly, cause they play on Tuesday to start the season, those two teams, and then the game after that is sons and warriors, which of those two teams is more likely to make a run. I think that the sons have a lot of guys that kind of do the same thing and the warriors, I don't know. I mean, it kind of feels like it ended for them a while ago.

Yeah. You know, the, you know, the, the Chris Paul move is almost like jumping the shark as they say in TV. It's like, you know, they got nothing else.

So, uh, Hey, let's bring in Chris Paul here. Um, so yeah, I, uh, you know, I think that, I think they can put together a better season. They were the number seven seed last year, 144 games. They can do better than that. I don't put them on the, on the same level as, uh, you know, a healthy like the team, a healthy Denver team, uh, Phoenix, even Memphis, uh, and maybe Sacramento, Sacramento could be a wildcard and all this as well, especially if I think De'Aaron Fox takes the leap that, uh, uh, that he could take. So, uh, yeah, I think there's a lot of teams that, uh, uh, that, that probably stacked up ahead of the warriors. Uh, but yeah, you know, I mean the sons are going to have a great, great regular season. I think there'll be easy to pick apart in the playoffs.

I think that's where their problem is going to be. Sean Devaney, appreciate your time. Follow him at Sean Devaney, check him out.

Heavy.com. Appreciate you and hope to talk down the road, Sean. Okay. Bye. Thanks.

Sean Devaney. There he is. There he is. That's what we say. Yeah. It's not like, uh, it's not like one of the main players left the warriors, you know, unless you want to count Bob Myers as the Michael Scott of this thing. And now it's the office and here comes Chris Paul or, you know, James is the James Spader character or whatever, but it does seem like this is, uh, you know, the, the final stanza that maybe the good days are done there in, in golden state. 8 5 5 2 1 2 4 2 2 7. I hate to be this guy, but I need, I gotta, I gotta rally in defense of how you feel about the Dallas Cowboys. Cause you're wrong. CBS sports radio.