Call To The Hall (Hour 2)

I would suit up in my uniform and you're going out on patrol. What are we going to do tonight? Well, we're going to rob some drug dealers and I know how to do it really well.

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What's wrong with your ears? Here is your College Football Fix, only on The Zach Gelb Show. Alrighty, College Football Fix time. Zach Gelb Show, CBS Sports Radio.

We'll head out to the guest line right now. Welcome in one of our favorites. You've seen him for years, Big Ten Network, Bally Sports as well. And now he has a big, big, big broadcasting opportunity as he's going to be a part of NBC for their Big Ten coverage this year.

And that is former Ohio State linebacker and national champion in Joshua Perry. Josh, appreciate the time as always. Congratulations on the new gig and how are you? I'm doing well.

I appreciate the congratulations. I'm getting really excited. College Football right around the corner. We've already got some conferences doing their media days right now. This is an exciting time of the year. So for you, you've had a pretty quick rise in broadcasting.

And I always love talking to you because you're so prepared and you're entertaining as well. I know you were in the NFL and unfortunately suffered a bunch of concussions and then walked away from the game. What made you think that, okay, you could be not only a good broadcaster but make a career out of it?

You know, this was an accident, honestly. So I left the league in 2018 and I went back home to Columbus, Ohio and I started selling real estate. So I was sitting in a real estate class and the general manager from the radio station, the flagship for Ohio State, called me and said, hey, I've got an opportunity. We've got a seat open if you want to do a pregame show. It was really the pre-pregame show for the Ohio State games. We'd love to have you. I was like, I've never done this before.

He said you'll be fine. So I did it. And then I picked up a couple of local TV shifts doing high school football on Friday nights. I was doing like a six-hour show that had these live look-ins all across the state. And then I got to do a postgame show that nobody really watched for Ohio State games. And I was just able to accumulate reps and build it up that way. I had an agent who sent out my tape. And then one thing leads to another and I'm able to continue to get jobs. Biggest thing for me, I absolutely love this.

I tell people all the time, this is something I would do for free if I was sitting at a bar and somebody asked me a football question and I get a paycheck to do it. So one of the luckiest guys around. But, you know, just like stars align at some point and that's what happened for me. And it's got to be surreal for you that you're going to be working for NBC this year.

It's amazing. Again, another one of those opportunities. And you know how this business goes.

But a lot of it is right place at the right time. And my contract with BTN was coming up. And obviously with the new media rights deal, there were some people that were hiring. And, you know, was able to get in front of some decision makers and obviously put my best foot forward. But for me to be able to be on a national broadcast where I'm able to honor the game and the conference and the university that I played against, one that I played for on a big platform, it was fun for me. And it never lost upon me that there are a lot of players out there where this is going to be the last thing that they do. Like playing college football is going to be the pinnacle for them. And every Saturday is a chance to celebrate them.

So I'm really excited to do that. Talking to Joshua Perry right now, part of NBC's coverage of Big Ten football this year. All right, let's get to your alma mater, Ohio State. We know how good they've been under Ryan Day. But the last two years they've lost to Michigan and those games haven't been close. I know Day hasn't lost many games during his tenure as the coach of the Buckeyes. But some fans are wondering if he's the right guy to find a way to get Ohio State back to where they should be against Michigan. What do you say to the Ohio State fan that maybe is starting to lose patience with Ryan Day?

I get it, but let's hold the phone here. So you mentioned Coach Day hasn't lost a lot of games. Ryan Day has gone in there. He obviously took over a program that was in a really good spot. But he's had a ton of success and I think that matters. We can even talk about postseason success where he's made it to a national championship game. He's been in the college football playoff three times. He's won a Rose Bowl, which I know the expectation anymore at Ohio State isn't to win Rose Bowls. He's been a really good coach. And I think a lot of people kind of cooled on some of their anger with the loss still. But the performance against Georgia I think folks really says it's a team that can still compete at a national level. Now I think a lot of people are not going to be satisfied if Ohio State continues to lose to Michigan.

Obviously Michigan is a program that has stepped up over the last couple of years and really become a national power and a contender once again. But Ryan Day has done a lot of things extremely well. First of all, he's developing quarterbacks. Second of all, getting an offense together.

And then early on in his career, too, he had Jeff Hatley, who was one of the best defensive coordinators in America. And I think people believe that Jim Knowles can kind of bring some of that back in his second year. So I know college football isn't patient anymore, which is a shame. I think you can also look to the rival up north if you're an Ohio State fan and see what patience did for them and where that program is now. So Ryan Day is a really good head coach.

He's going to be there. I think Ohio State fans should be fortunate to have him around. When you look at Michigan this year, we know all the players that they're returning. Is Michigan ready to take that next step? That's the big question where they've shown they get to two college football playoffs. They've been able to win two Big Ten championships. But can they go make a run and actually get to the championship game and win it? I think they can, but I think some things need to change. And in the day and age we're in in college football right now, I think you need to be able to play basketball in the football field a little bit.

And it's not to say that teams who run the ball or have a run emphasis can't win a title because Georgia ran it pretty well, but they also had a quarterback back there who was extremely crafty and some really good wide receivers, especially at the end of the year once they got healthy. I think their offense is going to have to go through a bit of an evolution. I think J.J. McCarthy has all the tools to allow that to happen.

He's just got to continue to develop. The wide receivers, I think, are still a place where Michigan can continue to get better. But I think they've got a defense that's ready right now. I think they've got a running back room that's ready right now. I think they've got an offensive line that's ready right now. So to answer your question, yeah, they can absolutely do it.

I do think that there's still work to be done. But they've also reframed their program too. They're talking about having to beat Georgia period in practice. And this is a program a few years ago that wasn't talking about winning national titles.

And I think that shows you from a psychology standpoint where they are right now. So they've got some big games on the schedule in Penn State and Ohio State. Outside of that, a lot of games where they can go out there and tinker with what their philosophy has been and find that right balance to have an offense that's not just putting up points by really grinding you, but an offense that's extremely explosive, it can hurt you in multiple ways. How big of a gap do you think it is right now between Michigan and Ohio State?

I don't think the gap is very wide at all. It's a very intriguing study when you do it because I think a lot of people would look at Ohio State and say from a talent perspective, Ohio State's got the edge. And you can look at recruiting rankings and blue chip and you can look at the drafted, all kinds of different things to say Ohio State's got talent. I think from a philosophy standpoint, Ohio State had evolved their team so much to be able to compete with some of the basketball and football field type teams that weren't necessarily big up front in the trenches defensively. They had a little bit more of a pass-first mentality offensively, which hurts your defense through practice. And I think that's where Michigan was able to carve out an edge. I think from a philosophical standpoint, they've had that edge to withstand adversity throughout the year and then to just get down and dirty and gritty. I think that's something Ohio State can do as well, and I think their strength is probably going to be in their running back room offensively outside of wide receiver with the new quarterback and new tackles they're trying to break in. I don't think it's necessarily a wide edge, but I know in Columbus, two years feels like an eternity.

And I know that people will tell you that the chasm is probably bigger than it really is. Talking to Joshua Perry, a lot of big expectations for Penn State this year. They have a loaded roster, so give credit to Franklin for the recruiting. But you look at their schedule, it's really easy outside of Michigan and Ohio State. And you know for Franklin, during his time as the head coach at Nittany Lions, 3-15 against top 10 teams and 1-10 against top 5 teams. Do you think James Franklin is going to have success this year up against those top 10 teams, which will be Michigan and then also Ohio State?

I mean, if there's a year, it's this year, right? I mean, they've got an all-world quarterback that is going to be ready to play this year. And again, you want to talk about tools and measurables, Drew Aller has them running back room loaded. They had a first rounder come back on the offensive line, didn't know if he was going to return. Defensively, a bunch of young guys got a ton of burn last year, both in the trenches and at the linebacker position. Certainly a little bit of retooling in the secondary, but I love what Manny Diaz was able to do in year one at Penn State. And I think he can take that a step further this year.

I like how everything is coming together in Happy Valley. I think there are a lot of people that consume Big Ten football that are happy that the conference is going away from divisions. Because when you look at this year, what you would have to run through with Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State in the East, that is going to be a battle. And all of those teams are extremely talented. Any of them not only could win the conference, but could make some noise in a college football playoff. Penn State is right there in the mix.

I don't think it's just hype. I think they have a really good roster, good coaching staff, and it's just about now actually getting the job done for the Nittany Lions. Going into this season, would you rank those three teams Michigan won, Ohio State two, Penn State three?

That's exactly what I would do. I think Michigan has to have the edge in this one returning quarterback. I mentioned the offensive line, the running backs. And also, the last two years, Ohio State is just entirely too talented. And I think Penn State is kind of the unproven there, even though we know they're going to be a good team. But I think that's where I'd be. So who do you like as the fourth best team then in the Big Ten?

Oh, that's a great question. I mean, are we going to look at a Wisconsin with Luke Fickle? Do we feel like changing that offense and bringing in what they brought in through the portal is going to be enough? Do we think Nebraska had enough in the cupboard? And then you bring in a Jeff Sims, who's a really electric athlete, a quarterback under Matt Rule.

That's where things get a little bit difficult to me. If I had to give the edge, I would say the edge is toward Wisconsin. They've been one of the best teams in college football.

I think the highest winning percentage of the team that's not made the college football playoff are the most wins, whatever the number is. I would go with them, but I think the West is really intriguing. I think that's where probably the fourth best team would come from.

But a lot of newness going on there. Even Ryan Walters at Purdue off of the year that they had. I'm curious to see how it all shakes out there. Joshua Perry, you look at Mel Tucker. Two years ago, everyone was loving Mel Tucker and now people have soured on him. Where do you think his stock is at and how he'll do this season? Because 2-5, then 11-2, 5-7, a big time contract. People expect him to turn that around, but I don't know how likely that is this year.

I don't know how likely it is either. I think Mel is a fantastic football coach. I love the way that he handles his program in terms of the intensity and the attention to detail that he takes to his job. I think the roster situation is going to be one that he's going to have to continue to work out.

Because he got a bunch of rentals in for a year and it really worked out for him. Next thing you know, those guys are gone and you don't really have anything going in the pipeline. For this year, again, you got some guys on defense that were really important to that program that are no longer there. A quarterback that had played a lot of snaps for you that's no longer there.

I don't know what it looks like. But I also think that there's something to having to go through an offseason and everybody's telling you about how you're no good. I think that if you got some real dudes in your locker room, you can parlay that into pulling off a couple of upsets you weren't supposed to get. Is there one team in this conference that maybe people aren't talking about that they should right now?

There's two teams and it feels like it's been the same two teams the last couple years for me. Minnesota never gets enough credit. I think P.J. Fleck, and I know people have a thing about his personality, it doesn't change how good of a football coach he is.

He is one of the most detailed humans I've ever seen at a practice. And it's like clockwork. And his teams play well because they're so well coached.

So I'm looking at them to see what they can do over there in the West that always feels like it's pretty open. And then Brett Bielema, again another great coach, and they lost a ton both on offense and defense. But I'm curious to see what the rebound looks like. He's got a new defensive coordinator in the building as well. But Illinois, I told people last year, watch out for that team because they're going to be much better than you give them credit for. This year it's going to be a bigger challenge because of all the losses.

But I'm excited to see what they look like. I want to get your take on the Northwestern situation. I'll preface it by saying this is what I think happened. On Friday they had the two-week suspension, thought they could sweep it under the rug. Then the student journalists did their homework and it wasn't any new information to the university.

It just became public and then they had to make some changes. I understand why Pat Fitzgerald lost his job. I'm not debating that, Josh. But there's a lot of others at that institution that need to lose their job as well. It's a very interesting point that you bring up.

There's a lot of reflection that needs to go on there because I agree with you. And everything that had come out, it seemed like the information was known to the university. And those student journalists at the Daily Northwestern did a hell of a job. And for people who are unaware, Chicago has a lot of sports teams.

It is media market number three. The two big newspapers here in town that live in Chicago, the Tribune and the Sun-Times, they do not have a Northwestern beat. And so there are no professional journalists that cover that school. It's literally the student journalists. And they have so much power and value because they're that locked in. I mean, that's also why journalism is important, neither here nor there.

So it doesn't seem like there was a lot of new information. It seems like a lot of people fumbled this scenario. I go back to the victims and the whistleblower in this situation, and I wish the best for what happens in that regard.

I also think about players in that locker room. And they're probably not totally blameless because some of them were bystanders. But probably most of them weren't active participants, and now they have to pick up the pieces to this scenario as well and try to play a football season.

That's really difficult. And for Pat Fitzgerald, had the perfect job and had done really well. And it seemed like it was a place that could never fire him. And then we get this situation. I'm curious to see what litigation looks like for him because it goes back to this idea that the facts were known. And they came to an agreement that what he did that Friday, what he did was not a fireable offense or what he did or did not know.

And now all of a sudden it is. So there's a lot of mess to this. But again, I like to think about that program and how they rebound and the players in that locker room. And then, of course, the victims and how they deal with that trauma because, I mean, that hazing was serious business. Some of the details that came out I couldn't imagine. And there are people that are going to have to deal with the real consequences of that.

It's crazy to me. And I know there's a certain culture in football and you make a mistake, you got to pay for it. But how some people are like, oh, boys will be boys. And then you hear that there was like dry humping going on in the locker room to make a player perform better in practice.

I'm reading that. And I've been in football locker rooms in high school level, right? You've been all throughout high school, college and the NFL. That behavior to me just is never justified. No, and I've never been around anything like that either. And it's not to say that there wasn't hazing in place I had been, but it was more so the, hey, rookie, carry my pads out or, hey, you know, go to the store and grab me some snacks type stuff. But never anything that was physical, never anything that was, you know, forced consumption of alcohol, which are some things that you see on college campuses. This was pretty startling. And to hear those details, it does not feel like those are activities that are conducive to team building and to bonding.

And it's just, it's sad in that regard that anybody could try to flip it that way. He's Joshua Perry. He's going to be a superstar in the broadcasting business, already is.

And you can watch him on NBC throughout the Big Ten college football season. Josh, we'll be talking to you throughout the year. Appreciate the time. I appreciate you. You're listening to the Zach Gelb Show.

All right. He does the Zach Gelb Show on CBS Sports Radio. So you see a lot of stupid things on social media and you wonder why is this even being a conversation? And there's the names of both these guys are big names like these were were players that were fun that we talked about a lot. But all the fame cases being made. And I guess for for Andrew Luck, the reason why this is being brought up is because he's not been out of the league for five years, which is crazy to say. His last year playing was twenty eighteen. And then when you look at Cam, Cam's last year was playing was twenty twenty one. So I don't know why this conversation is there for Cam.

But the last two days, it was back to back days. I saw a Hall of Fame case being made for Andrew Luck. And then today I saw a question is Cam Newton a Hall of Famer? And the answer is on both players. No, no.

I don't get me wrong. Andrew Luck was phenomenal. Andrew Luck is one of those stories that we're going to talk about whenever the conversation comes up of what could have been. Andrew Luck is going to be one of those players. And I admire what Andrew Luck did, because if you go through the story, he made a promise to himself when he's getting injured over and over and over again. That if this happened again, we have to miss a lot of practice that he would walk away from the game.

And there's one thing to say that. And then when the injury actually occurs again or another injury occurs again, you actually walk away from the game. But in six NFL seasons, you look at the numbers that Andrew Luck put up in 86 games. In just 86 games of his career, Andrew Luck has great numbers. 171 touchdowns and 83 interceptions. And he had 23,671 passing yards. But that doesn't mean he's a Hall of Famer. Now, if he would have gone on to play like another five years or so in the NFL and didn't get hurt, yeah, it probably would be a Hall of Famer. But for Andrew Luck, I don't think it's any different than a running back who retires early and then people hold it against and they didn't play for like two to three more years. So you look at a guy like Andrew Luck, it stinks.

That's a story that we'll talk about forever. What happens if he didn't get hurt? But I can't sit here and tell you that Andrew Luck needs to go into the Hall of Fame. And as for Cam, Cam had some good seasons. He had one just ridiculously great season when he was the MVP of the league. He's made the Pro Bowl three times. He's won a Rookie of the Year.

He was the Offensive Player of the Year in that 2015 season where he also won the MVP. But Cam isn't a Hall of Famer. You know, Cam is not one of the greatest quarterbacks that I've ever seen. He didn't have this great career. He had some great moments, but he doesn't have enough moments to say that Cam needs to be in the Hall of Fame.

And I know we're on right now on WFNZ. And I wonder what that listening audience thinks about Cam. Like they all love Cam.

Obviously, you should. Face of a franchise. You know, a guy that won an MVP got you to a Super Bowl. But do you actually think if you're a Carolina Panthers fan that Cam is a Hall of Famer?

He's not. He didn't play long enough. He didn't dominate at a high enough level for a long enough time to get into the Hall of Fame.

And I think now the standards of fans are really low. Where we live in this society now where everyone's saying the GOAT, the GOAT, the GOAT. You win an MVP of kids saying, oh, that guy's the GOAT. Or you don't even need to win an MVP. Brandon Miller, remember the Alabama player, obviously, from college, college basketball?

Just a month ago at the draft, not even. He said his GOAT when he was asked by Scoop B. Robinson. It's not LeBron. It's not Michael. It's Paul George. And Jim Rohn said this, and Jim Rohn is 100% right.

And also I heard Scoop B. when he joined the studio, he even said it. There's a difference between who your favorite player is and who is the greatest player of all time. There's a big difference. So I'm sure there's a lot of Colts fans that were, well, maybe not because of Peyton Manning. But I'm sure there's a lot of Colts fans when Luck was playing great, oh, he could be one of the all-time greats. And then there's Panthers fans when Cam's going to, oh, he's the GOAT.

But come on. They had some, both of those guys had great seasons, but not enough to make an actual case for either to be Hall of Famers. And I know both of their careers unfortunately got derailed because of injuries. And you wonder what would have happened if they played a 15-year career. If Luck would have played a 15-year career, he would have been a Hall of Famer. If Cam would have played, you know, a 15-year career, I don't think he would have been a Hall of Famer because Cam, when you saw him be great, it was awesome, but then there was some regression. And he was just never consistently great. So I don't really get where the conversation is right now.

Let me ask this to Marco Belletti, because Marco is big on history. The last two days, I'm seeing a Hall of Fame case be made for Andrew Luck. Like, don't get me wrong, Andrew Luck's numbers, sensational in the six years that he was able to play. But I can't put Andrew Luck in the Hall of Fame.

No, there's not even a question. Look, part of Hall of Fame is the ability to have longevity. Now, he walked away on his own because he wanted to because injuries. Power to you, respect, but that's part of it.

Now, they've made some successions with that with the Hall of Fame, the Terrell Davis's, the Gelsayers, which to me is a little difficult, but I understand it because you're talking about injury taken away and they were at their prime. But the numbers are at least there. We can argue it. No, you're borderline at best with these numbers and you only played six years and you walked away. I'm sorry. No, no.

Yeah, I'm 100 percent with you now. And they're just he didn't play long enough to put together like even the years that he played. He had what, three Hall of Fame years out of the six that he played probably. And it just it was not there long enough that that franchise he took over. Right. Manning was on his way out because of the neck injury.

They had two wins and boom, they're right back in contending. Good quarterback. I mean, borderline to great. But you you actually have to do it on the field. It's not just a question of, well, he had great talent. We know he could have. Well, you didn't. You could have. You didn't. So I'm sorry. That's part of it.

You have to actually do it. You can't just be, wow, we could see it. Well, I saw it, but I didn't see it enough. And the other name that I was talking about that others have said, I don't think this guy's a Hall of Famer once again because he didn't do it for long enough. Had an MVP, took a team to a Super Bowl, won a Rookie of the Year, made the Pro Bowl three times. This conversation was brought up yesterday about Cam.

Like, I can't make a case for Cam Newton yet to be a Hall of Famer. No. Marcos, Marcos. They love you right now.

And WF and Z and Charlotte. That laugh. That was that laugh was Marco, not mine. Come on now.

I mean, are we for real? He had a monster season, a great year before that. I also remember hearing about how his completion percentage wasn't there. He wasn't a quarterback that could read the field.

He was more of a runner than anything else. And could you win with Cam Newton? Then you saw that monster year in the MVP and it was like, oh, okay. And then we lost two games that year. And one of them was the Super Bowl. Yeah.

15-1 going into the Super Bowl and going into the playoffs, I should say. Yeah. Again, sustainable. It took him a little bit, which is fine. Got to that peak, fine.

And then the shoulder injury and it, I mean, the bottom fell out. Sorry, it didn't last long enough. It wasn't good enough. That doesn't mean you're a bad player. Doesn't mean you're not a good player. Just means you're not a Hall of Famer. That's all, to me, I don't understand why that's a slight. And that's the thing now.

I was making this point. Now you have like one good season. Every kid calls you the GOAT. And the other thing is you get these Hall of Fame debates. I feel as if society now, we're just, oh, you know, put everyone in the Hall of Fame. The Hall of Fame, I'm not saying that we need to sit there and make it as if it's the most sacred thing ever.

And sometimes people take it to a level that's just ridiculous in terms of their seriousness of it with some of their standards. But if we left it up to the public, I think a lot of people just put everyone in the Hall of Fame right now. You know what, and if you want to do that and you just want to make it a big giant museum and you put basically everybody. And that's fine.

You know what, fine, go ahead. But if you're asking me personally, are these guys? No, there are a lot of guys that are just, they don't belong. There are a lot of guys that do belong that are not there. I also think the NFL's Hall of Fame process sucks.

Oh, yeah. It's awful. Now, I also think it's difficult to do because when you sit down in a room and try to figure out who's the best right guard. And, you know, should they go, it's hard to, you know, I mean, quantify, I get it. The one good thing about the Hall of Fame process with the NFL is they have a set number that gets in every year. See, I hate that.

I hate that with passion. But then sometimes, like in baseball, for example, you could go a year where you get no one in. I know what you're saying, that you need to be deserving of it. But with how much of a back load there is already, like look at the wide receiver position. How guys have to wait for years and years and years that are, in my mind, some of them should automatically be in. Like look at Andre Johnson. Andre Johnson, Hall of Famer. And you know what?

T.O. had to wait. Here's the problem. Because they have a minimum and a maximum. You're a Hall of Famer or you're not.

Not a minimum and no maximum. If there are 13 guys going in, if there are 18 guys going in, guess what? They all deserve to be Hall of Famers. They're all going in.

What, they don't get enough recognition that day? Tough. Tough.

Is the bus going to be there for life? There's your recognition. Okay? If that's not good enough for you, then I don't know what to tell you. But that's the concept. You cannot have a minimum because if you're not valued enough, if you're not honored enough to be able to get into the Hall of Fame, then so be it.

And you can't have a maximum where you say, that's enough. We had to close the door. It's just too many guys getting in.

What is this, a club? You're either getting in or you're not. Yeah, but you know what's fascinating by this? There's never been a year where you could debate if others should have got in. And is this guy actually a Hall of Famer? But I don't think there's ever a year in the NFL when you're talking about the modern ballot.

Not like the senior committee guys that they've overlooked for years and whatnot. That's separate. Where someone gets in and just like, I think it's five or six that they allow in. I think it's minimum of three, maximum of six if memory serves.

I could be wrong. I don't think there's ever a time where it's egregious. Just because of the way that there's 53 guys on every team and then you have all that time waiting.

But here's the egregious part. If you're telling me the maximum is six, why do you think you have a backlog? Because you're only putting six in. Yeah, that's fair. If I had to put in 14 last year, the backlog wouldn't be there, would it? And then it's tough because you go, okay, if we put one wide receiver in, can we really put another wide receiver in? And then we'll go with an offensive lineman, things like that. And that's why you have to make concessions because of your own stupid rules. You know what it sounds like you're saying? And I don't think this would be a terrible policy.

But if you have a contentious debate and then someone doesn't like someone, it could screw them over. You think for the Hall of Fame, you know, what is it, you wait five years or whatever it is? I think it's just be one and done. I know we all covet the first ballot stuff and being a first time Hall of Famer in baseball, first time Hall of Famer in football.

You said it. You either are Hall of Famer or not. You should just be eligible for one year.

And there's no maximum, like you said, it's either you're in or you're out and that's it. No, because then it depends on who's actually... The voting process. Of who the voters are. I don't trust the voters, to be fair.

No, because you mess up one year and then it's over. And then you never got a chance to even have the debate or even talk about it. What happens if you just had a bad room or there was something going on outside of... Like a meeting member doesn't like you?

Well, there's also something on the candidacy. You're all of a sudden in the news for the wrong reasons and that year everybody shies away. And then it turns out it wasn't that big a deal or it wasn't you or whatever it is. Then all of a sudden you have no... No, to me that's a little too difficult.

That's a little too abrupt and final. There's guys that have been... The Baseball Hall of Fame has its issues too, but you have to get...

I forget what it is, 5% of the vote or you're not on anymore or whatever. There were some guys that for whatever the reason is, whatever the year it was, that should have had the conversation. That could be Hall of Famers. And they just got bounced for whatever it is. That's difficult because of the percentage.

This would be even worse. And the guys that I'm thinking of in my head, like Albert Bell was on the ballot for how long? Not long. Nobody wanted to vote for him. Nobody liked Albert Bell. Nobody cared because it was like, ah, he's a bad guy.

Look at what he did on the field. God belongs in the Hall of Fame. Hall of Fame of life? Hall of Fame of personality? No. Balloons in the Baseball Hall of Fame? Same thing. If you do that in one year, that's rough. Because you're putting a lot of pressure on everybody to get absolutely right.

Not everybody does the right thing the first time. It is the Zach Gilp show on CBS Sports Radio. Just real quickly, yes or no for Hall of Fame? Eli Manning? Yes. Phillip Rivers? No.

Ben Roethlisberger? Yes. Okay. Those three guys are always linked together. They are. Can I throw one out there that I know it's a colleague, so it's a little bit self-serving, but I've been banging this drum.

And I like to do it on the air whenever the possibility arises. So time out. Before you say this colleague, there's another running back that has to get in before that person could even be considered. Sean Alexander. Sean Alexander should be in the Hall of Fame. Guy has over 100 career touchdowns. And he's one of those guys, people say, did not play long enough. He needed to play longer. He has 100 career touchdowns.

Rushing. We could argue this. And what an MVP. For me, Tiki Barber is a Hall of Famer. There's not even a question in my mind.

There's not a question. The idea that, you know, he played 10 years in the NFL. He had, when he walked away, he had over 10,000 rushing yards, over 5,000 receiving yards. If memory serves, I want to say he's still to this day like top five in all-purpose yards in the NFL. In the history of the game.

The history of the game. And the thing that hurts him a lot is obviously people have their opinions about him and they also looked at it like, oh, but he didn't score enough touchdowns. Really?

That's that's where this is the guy that was 2,000 yards all-purpose every year for the last like five years of his career. I'll throw one more name out there. Okay.

Donovan McNabb. In my mind, no. I could see the argument. Personally, no.

But close. I could see the argument. I always thought McNabb was an above average quarterback at best. I thought he had a lot of talent around him. I not only just a big moment and all that other stuff. You know, I would actually push back on the talent because you're receiving wise.

Yeah. I know you had Brian Westbrook. You had you had running backs. You had great offensive lines. And yeah, Andy Reid, masterminding the whole thing. I thought McNabb was a good above average quarterback. I don't think he was great at any point and I don't think that he was the difference maker on that team. If anything, he kind of held them a little bit back. Matt Ryan, Malibu Hall of Famer.

I don't know if he will. Because it's a tough part too. There could be so many guys just with how much they throw the football now with the yards.

And that's the thing. The stats, I can't lean on the stats. Because if you'd go by the stats, if we'd have done this seven, eight years ago, Kerry Collins, the Hall of Famer. The Hall of Famer? No. Is Dave Craig a Hall of Famer?

No. Hell of a lot of stats. There are guys you have to kind of put that aside and you have to watch it. Matt Ryan is borderline for me because he elevated that franchise to levels that they had never seen. And you see what's happened since. I don't know if I would vote yes, but I'd be willing to sit there and really kind of put it together.

Decipher it. It's not an automatic for me. Some of those guys are automatic. If you go by stats though, doesn't Phillip Rivers make the Hall of Famer then?

Yes, absolutely. He's six passing yards and six passing touchdowns. I actually think Phillip Rivers is a Hall of Famer.

He's an eight-time Pro Bowler. Look, again, if you put him in, would I sit here and scream at the clouds like Harold Baynes? How could you possibly? It's not inconceivable. No. I think it's borderline.

I think it's close. But again, it also comes down to I feel like he had a lot of stats that were empty. I feel like Phillip Rivers had a ton of talent around him and it just never put together.

Now whether that's all on him or whether that's on some coaching staffs that he had to deal with or whatever the case you want to put in. But there was a lot of disappointment. And it seemed like it was a regular occurrence every year that you knew that the Chargers would get yards, get points, get enough wins to get into the play. And then disappointment was coming. It was around the corner.

It was like clockwork. I can't absolve him of that. The Hall of Fame, again, if we're going on the high ranking, you know, the hard grader, the hard marker. If we're doing that, then to me, Phillip Rivers takes a knock in that regard.

And you know what's crazy? Now this just goes back years and years ago. And I know he had a late start to his career. Do you think there's a case to be made for Theismann to be in the Hall of Fame? Joe Theismann?

I always thought he was. Now I'm old enough to actually have watched Joe Theismann play. Because the only reason I say that, when I was working at WIP when I was an intern for Angelo Cataldi.

I had Theismann's number and I said I could get Theismann on the air. And Angelo goes, oh, he's a Hall of Famer. I'm like, he's not a Hall of Famer. So that's why I always throw up that name when you go to old timers.

For me, personally, I always thought he was. I really did. Now again, the numbers are not going to bear that out. You're talking about the early 80s. And again, forget completion percentage. Because the game was different. You were throwing on third down. You were throwing when you had to. And you had to be able to make throws into really tight windows. Not only because defenses could actually manhandle players on the other side. But because the game was different. It was third and 17.

You better find 20 yards in your playbook. It was different. Theismann to me was always a guy that didn't get enough credit for what he did with Washington. And also, I love people that go for the Hall of Fame. Can you tell the history of the game without this player to determine the Hall of Fame?

You could use that in a different way. You know, the Lawrence Taylor, Joe Theismann play. That's not one that works in his advantage, but you can't tell the history of the game without it.

No, I know. But I think also too, people forget how good that 82 Washington team was. The fact that they went to the Super Bowl the next year.

I know Joe Gibbs, and look, he's one of the best coaches ever. He gets the credit for the fact that he went there with three different guys. And he won with three different guys. He won with three different guys because Theismann got hurt in 86.

Because that was the guy. And he had to go through Doug Williams in 87. Jay Schrader got to the NFC title game in 86. If they had Theismann, they could have got back and won it with him. Never mind having to go through all the quarterbacks that they did. And then finding a guy like Mark Rippon in 91. Theismann was, to me, a Hall of Famer. Now we got to take a break. For years, I advocated for Jerry Kramer.

I ended up getting it in. For years, it was Leroy Butler. Your guy now is Tiki Barber. My guy is Sean Alexander.

That's fine. That's a hill I'll die on. Tiki should be in with his brother.

With Rondé going in, there is no reason. What was the Christmas gift that Tiki once gave Mark on? You know what? And again, that's the thing. We've never...

I love Tiki. I don't think we've ever had this conversation other than... I think I said it in jest. Not in jest, but in passing as he walked by me. And I was like, and you belong in the Hall of Fame. And he winked at me. And that's it.

I've never sat here and told a Tiki, because you know me well enough. I'm not that guy, but I'll tell everybody else. Because that guy belongs in the Hall of Fame. And that is not a giant fan with rose-colored eyes. Look at it. Watch it. Go back and see how he carried those teams.

When you guys had that conversation and he was walking out of the studio having a windscreen in his hand, did he fumble it? Alright, that's actually pretty impressive. That's a good job out of you. I love Tiki, too. That's a good job out of you. He's one of the nicest people ever. I'll give you credit on that one.

If you want anything else that you can criticize him, that's the one I'll listen to. Because I can't tell you how many times I was yelling at the TV. Tiki, what the hell are you doing? Yeah, and high and tight became the thing. I can't tell the history of the game without high and tight. Because every running back talks about it now. You can thank Tom Coughlin and Tiki Barber for that one. They love each other, by the way. Oh, Coughlin and Barber, they love each other. You know, I don't know. Oh, I know they don't like each other.

I know the stories that everybody else knows. I never asked Tiki about it. I don't think I've ever asked him a giant question in the more than ten years that I've been working with him. There he is. I'm Captain Tom Marca Bellotti with the latest CBS Sports Radio update.

You're listening to the Zach Gelb Show. So we were just talking about Phillip Rivers and his Hall of Fame status. There's actually news about Phillip Rivers right now.

So the two things outside of just like what he did on a football field about Phillip Rivers that I think everybody knows is that the guy was a legendary trash talker but would never curse. And then the other thing is he could form pretty close to a football team with how many kids that he does have. Well, it was just announced and if Phillip Rivers is considered the quarterback here, he's got enough to have an 11-person roster. Because the family, Phillip Rivers and his wife Tiffany, whoever wants to play quarterback there, are expecting their tenth child. So there's going to be child number ten for the Rivers family.

Ouch. I couldn't imagine having ten children. Like ideally, how many children would you want to have, McKeon? Three. Oh, wow.

I still think that's pretty big. Three Brian Juniors. Oh, geez. Whoever your wife may be, God bless her.

My condolences in advance. Definitely wanted your reaction. You definitely need like two girls out of that three and then the last one could be a boy, okay? Three little Brian McKeons. That would be tough. Rough.

Yeah. You practically would be the fourth child, let's be real. I'd be the first.

I'd be the least behaved. But ten children? I would only want two children. That's all the world could handle. You could run that risk. If you have one child, then there's twins the next time or something like that. Oh, yeah.

That can happen. Or like Octomom. Remember Octomom?

Octomom. But ten children. I would eventually, you know, I'd have to like four or five little snip snip action. You've got a professional athlete chance, I think, with you. Like you've got to be strategic here because if you marry like a larger woman, you could have some specimen on your hands.

Well, you never know because like my parents are not tall. You're a big dude, so if you marry a big girl, you're going to get like a six foot nine monster out of that. Remember when Levar Ball, when he was saying how he was scouting his future wife? Superior jeans.

He wanted tall and big hips is what he was saying. I think you should take after Levar Ball in this scenario. Baby girl. Move over baby Gronk. We'll get a baby girl.

Take your right woman and, you know, do some trash talking on first take. You never know where your career will take you. Ten kids. Geez. Congratulations to him.

Like, what's the size of that car? It's on low rings. That's not nice. That's not nice. That's just a mean comment.

It is the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio. How many of those kids want to be NFL quarterbacks? We'll have to wait and see. Wait for that recruiting class.