Where is NFL Paradise? (Hour 3)

I would suit up in my uniform and you're going out on patrol. What are we going to do tonight? Well, we're going to rob some drug dealers and I know how to do it really well. Listen to and follow The Set, an Odyssey Originals documentary podcast series available now on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your shows. I'm not a bad guy, man, but I love being that dirty... Alrighty, rocking and rolling, now we're number three of our radio program. That's right, it is the Zach Gelb show right here.

But where else? CBS Sports Radio. So yesterday we had a former linebacker, made the Pro Bowl a few times on the All-Pro team a few times as well. John Merriman joined us, who is more so remembered clearly for his time with the, at the time, San Diego Superchargers. But at the end of his career, he did play with the Buffalo Bills. So I asked him about his time in Buffalo and what he did take away from it.

And this is what he had to say. It was the best experience I had in my life, you know, initially, but I was very vocal about it that I didn't want to go there. And not because it was Buffalo, it's just that at the time, they wasn't a very good team on paper. And being able to play in Buffalo for a couple of years was the best thing that's ever happened to me in my sports career, because they have the best fan base, in my opinion, in all of football. And there's no place playing like Buffalo. And to see them now with Josh Allen and Stephon Diggs and that team and all these new pick-ups they have winning games, there's nothing like winning football in that city because it's a different atmosphere.

Yeah, I think that's a pretty cool answer, McKeon. Because you get a guy like Sean Merriman, who, I get it, the fan support, right, wasn't great when he was a Charger. And that's not the most passionate fan base ever. And then you go to Buffalo where it doesn't matter if the team is great or if the team sucks, those fans treat everyone as if they're the biggest person on the planet and, you know, the most popular person on the planet. And, you know, we all know the actual area of Buffalo to live is not desirable. But if you're a player there, it's got to be awesome.

And I actually, I don't want people to take this the wrong way. I love going to Buffalo. I have gone on vacation before to Buffalo because I love getting wings.

Yes, that's me. So I am a big fan of the area of Buffalo, but I was not expecting Sean Merriman yesterday to say that in his sports career, that was the best thing to happen to him because the way that he was treated with the Buffalo Bills. I've been to a game there, too.

Unbelievable experience. It's great. I don't want them to get rid of that stadium. It's a dump, but it's your dump. Yeah, there's like an old dirty loveliness to it that makes it your favorite thing. And I was there in a rainy game, too, where you're in the bathroom and there's pipes leaking and everything.

Yeah, it's not great, but it is great. The only thing I don't like about that stadium, the bathrooms with the troughs. I'm not a fan of that. I don't remember having troughs in my bathroom. That's interesting. No, I loved that stadium.

The old feeling of it and everything like that just felt really cool. But they deserve a new stadium, too, in their own right, too, wanting a new stadium and stuff like that. I don't know if they're the best fan base in football, though. Oh, they're pretty close.

They're pretty close. If you think of best fans, Eagles fans are up there. Steelers fans. Steelers fans, no doubt about it. Bills fans are definitely up there. You have a snowstorm.

You have people lining up with shovels to get the long snapper out. I think the more entertaining conversation when it comes, because it's pretty easy to be a good fan base in football. The more entertaining is the worst fan base in football. Because here's my thing with that.

I didn't even think about that. Because here's my thing, Zach. How do you define the worst fan base in the league? Because you have the annoying passion of some fan bases, where it's just every year we're going to go to the Super... I'm citing at-Cowboys fans. Every year, we're going to the Super Bowl.

This is the year, this is the year, and it's never the year. Is it those fans, or is it the fans of a team that just never show up, no matter what? How do you define worst fan base in football?

I think most people would define it as who's the most insufferable. But the way that you meant that question is, if you look at the Bills fans, they'll show up. It doesn't matter what the score is. It doesn't matter how bad the team is. It doesn't matter the weather, too. That also factors in. I've been to games in Buffalo, it's negative two degrees.

That stadium's still packed and crazy. So, that's a good question. Because if it's based off who's the most insufferable... It's Cowboys. It's Cowboys fans. Yeah, that's not a debate.

And they pop up like cockroaches all the time. In the regular season, then the post-season, they disappear from 96 and on. We're what, two or three weeks away from the Cowboys' Super Bowl conversation, right? Where Jerry Jones is going to be in Oxnard holding up a fake trophy, pretending as if it was the Super Bowl trophy. Some absurd comment.

I think that period of the year, we're about two or three weeks away from it, right? So, who's the worst football fan, in your opinion? If it wasn't based off of, who do you think is most insufferable?

So, we're not talking insufferability. Oh, we forgot. I mentioned we have to give for best fan bases, though. Seahawks.

I don't know how we missed that one. 12 fans, pretty damn good, yeah. One that comes to mind... Just not iconic. The Seahawks fan has been wonderful, but I wouldn't say they're in the iconic fan bases. Like, some of those other teams that we mentioned, just how long those teams have been around for. I'd say when it comes, then, to worst fan bases, I think a top mention for me would have to be the now Los Angeles Chargers.

That's a good one. Because I'll tell you, I was out there when they won the Super Bowl, and you would think that if you're in the home city of a team that won the Super Bowl, it would be mayhem on the streets. And I know, right, that team has moved all over the place.

It was not mayhem in the streets. Well, that was for the Rams, too. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, but the Chargers, I just... Oh, you said the Chargers? Yeah, I said the Chargers, yeah. Oh, I thought you said the Rams.

Yeah, no. Rams, it's interesting, because they did have this success, so you're gonna have fans naturally breed there. The Chargers, say what you want, because there's been rumors over the years, now it's obviously not gonna happen because of the new stadium deal, but there's been rumors over the years that the Bills could wind up moving to Toronto. That the NFL wants a team in Toronto. Yeah, that would never happen. I understand what you're saying, but...

I would lead the charge of that protest, and I would go crazy. Sure thing. Let's not take the Bills out of Buffalo. That is the perfect football town.

Sure thing. Food family football, what are you doing? Let's acknowledge this, though. If the reality occurred where the Bills did move to Toronto, Buffalo Bills fans would migrate every single week to Toronto. Yeah, well, look at this year. They had the snowstorm, and they put the game in Detroit, and you had... I don't even know how the Bills fans got there.

They would travel the hour, hour and a half from Buffalo to Toronto and make that trip. There's no doubt in my mind they'd pack that stadium. Have Chargers fans done the same? But that's a tough thing.

Is it? The team got taken away from them. The same thing would happen if it was Buffalo.

Do you have any doubt in your mind? I'm not saying Rams fans, because they moved across the country. The Chargers moved about an hour and a half north. Three hours, I'm pretty sure that is, right?

No, I think it's like an hour and a half drive. And you get nobody in that building for Chargers games. And you have one of the most exciting young quarterbacks in the NFL.

And there's nobody there. I mean, is there another fan base that comes to mind necessarily for you? Because I think of all the stinky teams around the NFL that aren't great. Because even teams that have historically been bad, right? The New Orleans Saints, they're packed every week.

The Falcons are packed every week. Yeah, I give you one more team. Houston? No, no, no. I give you... No. Does this definitely beat mine?

Am I missing it that bad? Yeah, it does. Really? Because of one person and one person only. Hickey's so insufferable, the Colts have to be on that list.

I don't think so, no. Pumping in crowd noise. Pumping in crowd noise is a weak move. I was being sarcastic there. That's weak sauce. But I can't think of a worse fan base than the Chargers.

Well, let's do this. And there's tons of times where players are even tired about it. Like the current players.

Where they even understand where that relationship is. But I think it's difficult because of the team movement. If you had to go division by division right now, you're a free agent. And it's not who has the best team. Just which fan base would you want to play in front of? AFC East, who's your fan base?

Bills, Dolphins, Patriots, Jets. Fan base or city I want to play in? I'm a free agent, I have a choice to sign or fan base?

Yeah, yeah. You could go city you want to play in and you could factor in the fan base too if you want. Okay, city I want to play in? Miami.

You can't beat that. Fan base? Buffalo. I would want to go play for the Buffalo Bills. I'm shocked growing up a Patriot fan. Well, here's why. You look at like Dion Dawkins, good friend of mine. He's an offensive lineman.

Don't get me wrong. Has made two Pro Bowls. That dude's a god in that city. Because you have a college like... It's almost as if the Buffalo Bills, those players get treated as if you're a football player at Alabama.

Or a football player at Georgia. That's how crazy that fan base is. It's a college atmosphere kind of vibe with the professional team which makes it really fun.

You probably get a similar vibe in Green Bay. Well, yeah. Can we wait? Oh, I'm killing the segment. We're going division by division here McKeon. There's always a time when McKeon's in here. Where he's like a little fly. You just hear him bzzzzz.

I need to get a little fly swatter. AFC North. Bengals, Ravens, Steelers, Browns. I guess by default you got to go Steelers, right?

Although... So the Bills, as we just talked about the Bills, you can make the same case kind of like for Cleveland? Yeah, Cleveland's got a very passionate fan base. Here we go Browns.

Here we go. Honorable mention, I'd love to wear the Ravens jerseys. And do the Ray Lewis dance? Those purple jerseys are one of the coolest in football. I have to be the Steelers.

Yeah, you can't. Now we're taking into account during this free agency tour that me and you were on. We're both getting max offers, right? I'm assuming you're getting a Quinnen Williams type deal, right? You're getting $94 million. You may get a practice squad player type of deal.

Wow. See, if it's a practice squad deal, then I'm going to the Browns. I have a better chance of making the roster. Jaguars? Well, the Browns have a load of roster this year. This year they do, yeah.

They've had a load of roster the last few years, they just can't ever get it to all go together. Jaguars, Tennessee Titans, Indianapolis Colts, Texans. So can I give you my rankings here? Jacksonville actually, even though that's not the best fan base, Jacksonville weather-wise that's pretty damn good. Nashville would be cool. Indianapolis, they have good fried calamari. I didn't have a hickey root for me though. They have good fried calamari, the JW Marriott, and you got St. Elmo's too.

Hickey will be wearing a Gelb jersey. And then the Texans, you got the barbecue there. I think I would want to go to Tennessee. It's Tennessee for me too. You can build a house there for really cheap. A tax-free state.

Isn't that what Zach Wilson's doing right now? Yeah, tax-free state. And the barbecue is just as good in Tennessee as it is in Texas. Whoa, whoa, whoa. That's a your opinion?

We need callers. I'm just saying that's a your opinion. That is not a me opinion. I haven't had it in either state, so I can't say for sure from my own. I'm just saying Tennessee is known for its great barbecue. The best barbecue that I've had, like the three areas of the best barbecue, Kansas City, Houston. I've heard Kansas City is electric. And then also Memphis is really damn good too. Yeah, that's Tennessee. People tell me that I got to go to North Carolina, get some barbecue down there.

People say, you know, you got to get some in Tennessee as well. I think Tennessee, even though, I mean that's just a new stadium, so you're getting a new stadium in Tennessee also. New stadium in Jacksonville, that's got to be a factor. As a player, that would be a factor for me. Newer facilities, newer stadium, like you're going to get more primetime games in a newer stadium.

You're going to showcase yourself a little more. I'm just saying, when you're a quarterback like myself, that is something that you, and quarterback opening in Tennessee, right? Tannehill's on his way out. You think Bryce Young has problems seeing over the line of scrimmage. How the heck would you see over the line of scrimmage? The quarterback is thriving now, Zach.

You would need stilts, all right? Russell Wilson got 200 million guaranteed. Alrighty. AFC West, not the Chargers. No way. You got three good fan bases there, though. Raiders fans, Broncos fans, and Chiefs fans. Raiders fans have faltered over the last year or so.

No, no, no, they're still crazy. Not in Vegas. Go to a Vegas Raiders game and look in the crowds. It's all tourists. That's not true. I might have to do what the team's thinking, but it's all tourists.

That's not true. And it's going to be an all-time bad year this year. Because if they're not a great team, which I don't think anyone thinks they're going to be. Those Raider fans are crazy, though. But I would love to live in Vegas. I would love to live in Vegas. Mine would actually be Kansas City. If you're a free agent this year, it's Kansas City. Here's the thing, though.

They can't fit your cap number, though. I love going to Vegas. I wouldn't want to live in Vegas.

It's a terrific point. Because I go to Vegas, and after four days, I need a bed and water. And I cannot move. But my buddy Sully, who I met through Perloff, he lives out there in Vegas, and he loves it.

Listen, I think if you live out there, you've heard it from Golden Knights players, right? You learn to adjust. Your life doesn't become the encore. Your life doesn't become the tables. You learn to adjust to different types of living and stuff like that. The houses out there, too.

A tax-free state. Kansas City, even though that was my selection, man, I think I'd gain 100 pounds with all that barbecue. But you've got to remember, too. You were factoring in fan bases. That's an electric fan base.

It is. The Chiefs have a great fan base. That stadium, you're playing in an iconic stadium.

Again, they can't fit your cap number under the cap. Second time you made that joke. It wasn't great the first time.

I think it went over well in people's cars. But I'm just saying, and you're getting the opportunity to play at Mahomes. So if you're going to factor in this year as an offseason, getting the opportunity to play at Mahomes is hard to pass up. That could be two more rings on your notch. It could. You know where you could not play? Where is that? You could not play in Denver. Too chill of a vibe. You're too crazy. I went to a game out there last year.

You speak too quickly to go to Denver. Was not impressed. Was not impressed. Really? No.

It did not do it for me. Oh, I like that stadium. I like that fan base. The fan base.

The only thing I don't like is the incomplete chant. The fan base was nonexistent. I mean, there was no- What was last year? That team sucked. It was last year in December.

Oh, yeah. Come on. Broncos, Chiefs. So no one wanted to see their team get a blitz. It was the game at Mahomes. Now, this game was actually close. Yeah, the game at Mahomes made that crazy right-handed pass. Did you puff puff out there?

No. It didn't fit my vibe while I was out there. I did go for a nice hike, though, up in wherever Colorado State is. That area.

A beautiful hiking trails out there. Denver's awesome. Playing there, though?

No, I'm good. NFC East. Mine would be Philadelphia. No chance, Giants. I'm not playing for the Giants. No chance. I'm going to Philly. Cheese steaks out the wazoo.

Good news, though. If I did go play for the Giants, I could easily be a fringe-fraud quarterback, and I'd get a huge deal, and the fan base would fall in love with me. So I could definitely wind up having success with the Giants. You know what I like about this segment right now? What's that? We're getting all the McKeon sports takes, and I'm just simply asking him, what fan base, what team would you want to play, and you start crapping on, like, everyone here. Oh, it's so much fun. This is such an enjoyable conversation. Now, Cowboys, here's the thing.

You would want to be one of the cockroaches. Here's the thing. I'm not going to Washington, but I'll say this about the Cowboys. If you have confidence in yourself, and you go there and win, you're going to be a god, because they haven't won in so long. So there is that thing, if you go there and win, plus secure... Have sleepovers, get the footy-footy pajamas out there, make some s'mores with Jerry Jones. Plus, if you're a good player there, secures you a TV job afterwards for $25 million a year.

So it's not a bad way to set up your future. Very good point. NFC North, Minnesota, Detroit, Green Bay, Chicago. This is a really tough one. So Chicago's the best city, but Minnesota... I went to Minnesota during Super Bowl week, and I walked outside with a beer at this event that I was at. And it froze. And it froze. And it was one of the few times I've ever sent back food. Very good fan base, though. I was out there for a while, and I was just craving some pizza, and I asked for a pie, and it was horrible.

I had to send it back. Good fan base, though. Yeah, and a fan base that's been tortured. Outside of Green Bay, all three of these fan bases have been tortured.

Miserable loss for the Vikings. The Lions always stink, and the Bears never have a quarterback. I would say it's Green Bay just because of Lambeau Field and the history.

It's a really tough one. Again, Lambeau's got that same vibe as Buffalo we were saying, where I think, A, if you win there, and B, with Green Bay, the smaller town vibe, where it's packed for every game, and you're a good player. You're an offensive lineman there. You're a stud in Green Bay.

You're an offensive lineman for the Ramses you could be forgotten about. Chicago, though, legendary fan base, legendary franchise. Also another thing, win a Super Bowl in Chicago, you're a forever kind of guy.

Be an average quarterback, you're a legend forever out there. Literally, and the Lions are an up-and-coming team. Yeah. I mean, they are. You wouldn't be tempted if the Lions gave you a huge deal to go play there right now.

If anyone wants to give me a huge deal, I'd go. With how that division looks right now, right? There's no- They're supposed to win the division this year.

They're supposed to win the division this year, so like- I kind of think it'll be Minnesota, though. Interesting. Yeah.

Because everyone's saying the Lions this year. That scares me. And you can bet on your own team. So there's a good- Yeah. Yeah.

They may take away my cell phone and get all the betting apps off of it. NFC South, Tampa, Carolina, Saintson, and the Falcons. Atlanta's a very underrated city. I loved when I did go to Atlanta. Gunshaw was a restaurant there.

Amazing. I'm going to New Orleans. But it's New Orleans.

Come on. Now, that's also kind of like Las Vegas. You're there for four days. You don't really want to live there. But just the party atmosphere and the food, oh.

You know what? I would go there as a wide receiver, and then I would need to be moved to like offensive line. That's cute. I would be so fat there. You've been to New Orleans. I'm assuming.

Yes. I've been to Mardi Gras. I've been there for a Super Bowl.

Wow. From four Mardi Gras. So you spent- When I was in college, I went there for Mardi Gras. One of the best trips ever.

I don't remember any of it. It's a lot of fun, New Orleans. A lot of drinking, a lot of eating. You can get a lot of weight there.

There's not a lot of walking, either, which is not a great bet. And also, if you go to Mardi Gras, a lot of girls just like giving you a full flash there looking for beads. No, I don't think that's necessary to- I'm not going to choose what team I'm going to play for. I'm just saying. To get a free sneak peek. I will say this, Zach.

You never know. James Harden wants to pick his team based off what trip clubs are great. Wow. Pelican's a great spot for him.

I'll say this. While the Saints would be a cool team to play for, I'd rather play for LSU. Oh yeah, sure. I'd rather play for LSU. Yeah.

You become a stud. Also, great chant, though. Who that? Who that? Who that Saint gonna beat them Saints? I went to a game at Death Valley last year.

I went to the Alabama LSU game last year. Oh, look at you. And they do- Where you get all this money to trade? They do a segment.

Well, I work here. They do this segment where they put up- it's in a commercial break. They put up all the old players that have played at LSU. And they all get chants, you know, Odell, whatever. They all get chants, stuff like that. And they put up the Joe Burrow picture and called the place completely- And recent, too.

Everyone gave a standing ovation for a guy that wasn't even there. So if you become- that's one of those places, too, where if you go there and you're an all-time offensive lineman, you're a god forever there. He could have had no NFL career.

He'd be a god there forever. Last one. NFC West. 49er, Seahawks, Rams, and Cardinals.

Can I give you my answer first? They're all good destinations. Mmm. Is the Arizona football fan really that great? Who doesn't want to live in Arizona?

That's a good point. Too much traffic, though, maybe in L.A. I would want to be a San Francisco 49er, because that fan base does not like me right now, because Deebo Samuel hung up on me. I want to go there and get a standing ovation and get kissed on the ass by the 49er fan. You're gonna go play with Deebo? That's- Yeah, I'm gonna take his spot. I can't imagine you playing with Deebo. That's like a Skip Bayless and Richard Sherman's incident right there. Yeah, how about that?

All that bad blood going on. I don't know if I could be a part of the 49ers. Seattle would be awesome. Yeah, you're a Seahawk. Yeah. No, I don't know what you are, actually. You know what? I've been to Seattle. I'm like Seattle. I've never been.

I'm planning on going soon. You know what? I can picture the team that you'd be on. Yeah? I see it.

I see it. You're a grizzly Chicago bear. You're an offensive lineman on the Bears that wears short sleeves in January and has mud stains on his biceps. That's what you are. The Bears had that aggressive running game, dirty, nasty offensive lineman. That's what you are. You're a dirty, nasty offensive lineman in Chicago. I would think more so Cleveland. No, I get that.

Cleveland's too dirty for you. Like you. What do you mean?

Because you have the mainstream to you. You just call Ken Carmen dirty? That's not nice. Yeah. Ken Carmen's a Cleveland dude.

What are you talking about? Zach Gelb is a more flashy dude. Chicago's more. You're not LA.

By the way, folks. You're not LA. You're not New York.

I'm Ryan Jack McKeon. Do not reflect the views of the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio. I love Cleveland. Where does Hickey play? The XFL? The USFL? He's an interior offensive. He's a walk on water boy somewhere? He's a slot receiver for the Chargers.

No. Chargers have a good receiving room. Really good receiving room.

Like a fan base. No one knows who he is. Alrighty. Coming on back. Zach Gelb shows CBS Sports Radio. You're listening to the Zach Gelb show. You're listening to the Zach Gelb show.

Alrighty. This is Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio. So we talked about this the other day, but I want to bring it back up because I've seen a reaction from it which I just think is so ridiculous. I do think right now one of the more genuine superstars there is where he's just a great guy and if you're thinking about having a superstar on a team and you look at not only being a great football player but being great off the field and the way that you conduct yourself and everything, Justin Jefferson is at the top of that list or pretty damn close to it. So Justin Jefferson's doing an interview the other day and they ask him, who's your top five quarterbacks in the NFL? So he gives the list Mahomes, Rogers, Burrow, Jalen Hurts, and Josh Allen. Those are in some order his top five quarterbacks. And there's been this great overreaction where I think a lot of it is it's in the middle of summer. People are trying to start a controversy.

But there's a great overreaction. How do you not put your own quarterback in the top five? And this is what is inconceivable to me is that if I put out a poll question, is Kirk Cousins a top five quarterback?

No one would say yes. Kirk Cousins is a good quarterback. He's not great, he's not elite, he's not a Hall of Famer, but he's a good quarterback. But no one's going to sit there and tell you that he's a top five quarterback. I think you could make a case that he's a top ten quarterback right now in the NFL, but some people would vehemently disagree with that, it's not a slam dunk. So McKeon, that's funny to me where almost throughout this entire guy's career, people love to just trash and pile on when it comes to discussing Kirk Cousins and then Justin Jefferson says, yeah, my top five quarterbacks are Mahomes, Rogers, Burrow, Hurts, and Allen. And people go, how do you not put Kirk Cousins? Does this mean Justin Jefferson doesn't like Kirk Cousins?

It's ridiculous. Kirk Cousins to me is in the 10 to 15 range. You can win games with him, you can make the playoffs with him, he's going to give you, I'll tell you this, he's a lock for 30 touchdowns and 4,000 passing yards a year.

He is. I mean, Kirk Cousins is a very serviceable starting quarterback in the NFL. There's a handful of franchises in the NFL that would kill for the production that Kirk Cousins has given the Vikings throughout this contract.

They would. But I don't think, if you ask Kirk Cousins if he's a top five quarterback in the league, I don't think he'd give you himself. Put it this way. I think this would be a bigger deal if, let's say, Keenan Allen was doing this. And is Justin Herbert right now a top five quarterback in the NFL?

No, but- Talon, why's he can get there? He's close. Like, he could be in the conversation. And if you then don't put your guy that's in the conversation, big deal. But for Justin Jefferson listing Mahomes, Rogers, Burrow, Hurts, and Allen- Who you taking out? No, not only that, anyone that's saying, oh, is this a big deal that he didn't put Kirk Cousins?

You're a moron. And you're just trying to start something because we know that Kirk Cousins is, we think would be his final year with the Vikings. But whenever you think it's his final year with the Vikings, they give him an extension or he's back the next year. And if Kirk Cousins goes out there this year, and like you said, there's 30 touchdown passes in 4,000 something yards. And let's say they win 10, 11 games or they repeat as NFC North champions and lose in the first or second round. That's a tough spot because- What's your indication he won't do that? You could move on. You could move on from Kirk Cousins and your thought would be, you got to go find a quarterback to go win you a Super Bowl, but it doesn't mean that you're going to find the right quarterback.

It's very tough. And that's why you see a lot of guys get paid a lot more than what they should, because if you have a good quarterback, it's about replacing them and finding somewhere else. The thing that I would say to you about the Vikings, I feel confident Kirk's going to put up good numbers. I just don't know where the team success is going to be because Kirk has always put up good numbers. You just never know if the games he has to win, if he gets a job done. Last year, they won every one score game.

It was crazy. I agree with you. But again, quarterbacks with 30 touchdowns and 4,000 yards don't grow on trees.

They don't. It's very complicated to find a guy like that in the league. Say what you want about his shortcomings. Say what you want about the times where Kirk Cousins, you watch the way he plays, right? He's never that elite guy. He's never in that conversation of elite. You never talk about him as the numbers Kirk Cousins put up this year, but he's consistent. It's every single year, it's the same numbers and you don't get that in the entire league.

You really don't. I really don't think there's that much of a difference between Kirk Cousins and Dak Prescott. I think Dak has a higher ceiling, but I think both quarterbacks, I view them very similarly where I don't ever think either quarterback is great.

They sometimes have great moments, but I don't think they're great. I think they're good quarterbacks. They could win a bunch of regular season games with, but come playoff time, I don't trust either quarterback. My argument though is they're not going to be bad enough to get a top tier draft pick. If they want to move on from him, he's not going to allow them to be bad enough. No, but we've seen teams before that have been far behind, like Buffalo, Kansas City, move up into a nice draft pick to go get that quarterback.

Now I don't think anyone is going to be able to move up from like 20 something to one this year to go get Caleb Williams, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles. Marco, let me ask you this because you're usually good when people are trying to make something a big deal that isn't a big deal and just in terms of calling them out on their BS. Justin Jefferson the other day said Mahomes, Rodgers, Burrow, Hurts, and Allen are his top five quarterbacks.

People go, oh, this is a big deal. He didn't list his guy and Kirk Cousins. Now the first thing I would say is how was the question prefaced because there's a good chance to say... Who were the top five quarterbacks in the NFL? Did they mention don't say your teammate?

Because it seems like most of these things... Not that I, from the audio that they played the other day, not that I heard of. All right, so they didn't actually say it, but most guys, we see these questions constantly with everybody and it's, you know, who's the best at whatever, but don't count your teammates. So that might have been not only the obvious because Kirk Cousins is not a top five quarterback, but it could also be that he just assumed you didn't want his guy because if that's the case, then you're not asking a real question. You know what I mean? If you don't preface that or if you don't mention that or if he doesn't realize that, you're not asking a real question because nobody wants to throw their teammate under the bus.

Even if you don't think they're the best, you always mention them. So I think it was just an automatic in his mind, you assume, I can't say Kirk Cousins in here because I think if you don't, then you have to, but it's stupid because nobody believes you. Does that make any sense?

Kind of. The thing that I would disagree with is I understand sort of what you're saying, but I truly don't think that Justin Jefferson believes Kirk Cousins is top five quarterback. Now, of course he does it. There's no one on the planet that does. Exactly. So, but when he asks you about stuff with your teammates, you always mentioned them if you have to. There's a difference in terms of people saying, all right, Justin Jefferson doesn't think Kirk Cousins is a top five quarterback. Absolutely he doesn't. No.

And then, oh, he can't stand his quarterback and he wants his quarterback out of there. I think there's a big difference. No, you're reaching. No, you're reaching. And that's what I think people are doing with this. That's making something out of it because you want to make something out of it. You know, that's what that is. And I think a lot of people look at it, they know what Kirk Cousins ceiling is and you look at that roster with some of the names on it, you want a more explosive quarterback in there. Yeah.

See, I don't know. I think that's somewhat unfair too, because I don't think it's the numbers. I don't think it's the explosiveness. It's the ability to win games when they're in front of you. I mean, I feel like we kind of mentioned some of these quarterbacks before. I feel like Kirk Cousins is, he's a good quarterback. He's the Kerry Collins. He's the Dave Craig. He's the Alex Smith. You win anything with these guys?

No. But they're good solid quarterbacks. And to McKeon's point, like if they're not there, it's hard when they're there because they don't suck and you can never get to the point where you could find Andrew Luck. But when they're there, you're just going to be another team. You're never going to be able to get over the hump because they're just not good enough to get you there.

And even when you have a 13 win season like they did last year, all throughout that season, people are saying fraudulent. Everything has to be in line. Now again, you could, to me, Kirk Collins is a guy that you could win with if everything else was perfect, a la Brad Johnson. You can win with him if the defense is great, if the offense has got weapons, if you're all offensive, like Kerry Collins, same thing. If you've got everything in line, you could win with that guy.

But if he has to take you to the next level, if there's something you're missing and he has to elevate you, he can't. McKeon? Wouldn't you put Kurt Warner on that category though? No.

No, no, no. But I mean, greatest show on turf, he was playing with a loaded roster. I'm aware of that. He is. No, that's what I'm saying.

But then he goes, hold on. I know that Arizona had, you know, Larry Fitzgerald and they had Anquan Boldin, but he went to Arizona and did enough to go win a Super Bowl and the defense let him down. You don't kind of view him in that same category of guys that are good enough to keep you competitive and keep you in it, but never really hitting that top five in the league threshold. Kurt Warner won two MVPs. Was Kurt Warner a top five quarterback in the league? He won two MVPs. If you take him off the greatest show on turf, he's a top five quarterback in the NFL.

He won two MVPs, McKeon. That Cardinal team was a nine win team, squeaked into the playoffs, brought him to a Super Bowl. And again, I watched the tail end of Kurt Warner's career, so I understand you have more experience than me. I'm just bringing up the debate because Kurt Warner, when his Hall of Fame case came up, was debated a lot of being a very debatable Hall of Famer. And to me, the way you guys are bringing him up is he was a definite top five quarterback in the league.

That's a sure and Hall of Famer. For me, Kurt Warner, the reason why, if you look at his numbers... The late start.

No, no, no. If you look at the dip, the dip in his career was when he messed up his thumb. He messed up his thumb and couldn't throw the football for a few years. You watch 2004 Kurt Warner with the Giants, everybody makes it like, oh, they pushed him aside for Eli Bennett. Kurt Warner couldn't really play. He was there.

He was along for the ride. He couldn't throw. If you watch him at the end of the 2000, what year was it that Mark Bolger took over with the Rams? It was because Kurt Warner was not the Kurt Warner that we saw with 99 in 2000 and 2001.

And it wasn't because the roster went up. It was his thumb. He couldn't throw. When he figured out a way to be able to tape it up enough or whatever it was, he got the Kurt Warner back. He didn't have the exact same zip that he had 99, but he had enough of it when he found with the Cardinals, he was supposed to be a backup with Matt Leinart. And he took the job. Leinart sucked. But he took the job from him.

And then when a nine-win team... I actually texted Matt Leinart today. I was trying to get him on this week. Thanks. Sorry. You're not wrong. He sucked in the NFL.

You're not wrong. He did. And part of it was everybody else putting it on him because he didn't have the arm strength, I thought, coming out of college. Unbelievable at USC. He just didn't have that next level.

Whatever. The point was Kurt Warner could take you there. He could carry you there when he was at his best. That lip in his career, that dull moment, that was all his thumb.

I just remember he was super debated in his whole thing in Canis County. Because there wasn't a lot of years. And that was the problem. He had three Super Bowl appearances, one victory, two MVPs, and there was a... And a Super Bowl MVP.

Yeah. And there was a three or four year period where it was like, what the hell happened? You were a backup quarterback.

And let's be real. And so he wins that one Super Bowl. Then the second one, they got off to that really slow start. But then he hits Ricky Prole in the end zone for a touchdown against the Patriots. And then Brady marches on the field, Vinatieri gets a field goal. And in that Super Bowl against the Steelers, I don't know what else he could have done. Him and Larry Fitzgerald, you go back and look at that individual postseason for Larry Fitzgerald.

It's one of the all time great post seasons that you'll see. Not throw a pick at the half. I know, the Harrison pick. I understand.

Sure. But you know what? Jalen Hurts fumbled this year in the Super Bowl. It happens. That's a play you can make. And if you also look at, even in that Super Bowl in 2001 against the Patriots, he was already hurt. He was already banged up.

The thumb was already messed up. Watch that game. He had so many throws that it wasn't the real Kurt Warner.

Now whether you want to go with the Spygate, whatever the hell you want to give it to, it took him a long time. And the throws that he made that were actually good throws, they weren't typical Kurt Warner, but he still found a way to put up, what was it, 10 points in the fourth quarter to get them tied? Again, the guy could play. The guy could get you over the top. He could elevate you.

There is never a point that I've ever watched Kirk Cousins ever do that. I'll stand corrected. Thought it was a good debate point. I'll stand corrected. Just wrong guy. You could pick a guy, I'm sure.

That's not one of them for me. And also, let's be real here. His son now is the starting quarterback, was the American Athletic Conference Rookie of the Year for the Temple House. And I'm just saying, and when Kurt was on campus with the sun torn, didn't shoot me a DM and asked me a few questions about the university. So we're big Warner fans here. So that goes up in the rankings.

That helps the debate, apparently. Greatest quarterback of all time, some may say. Move over, Brady. All right, then. Come on. It all goes back to Temple here. He did almost beat Brady in the Super Bowl.

Almost did it. And this is the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio. And shows you how much, and I'll be the first one to admit when I'm wrong, not only did I obviously think that we were gonna win that Super Bowl. You're defending a former giant. We understand. Oh, geez. Yeah.

It's just like your Tiki narrative. About 15 seconds he was on the Giants. So I will say, I will be the first one to raise my hand. I was in agreement with John Madden. I was like, what the hell are the Patriots doing? Take a knee. Why are you putting Brady in this situation?

What is wrong with you? Well, Charlie Weiss, the story goes, Charlie Weiss said to him, be smart here. Don't turn the ball over. And Drew Bledsoe was like, hey, kid, nah, bleep that.

Let it fly. Let's go win the game. And through the break, Marco will tell you why David Tyree's a Hall of Famer.

Oh, yeah, right. I also throw in, there was a play. I forget who it was who made the catch on the sideline. Luke Pettigrew.

Hall of Fame status next. Jeremy Shockey. No one else. It was a play for you, Zach, that I'm sure you remember on that drive. Knocked out of bounds. I forget who the receiver was. Questionable at best.

Troy Brown? That they stopped the clock. Watch that drive again.

Questionable at best. That half should have ended. And you know what? If David Tyree didn't put glue on his helmet, the Giants don't have two extra Super Bowls. That's a little bit different. And I have nothing against the Patriots, I can care less. This is that Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio.

Watch it. That was not in like 20-year-old football. That was something that Marco bloody like had like in his back pocket, you know, one day in July. I'm going to throw this right at him. Hey, man, if you wanted to come argue with me 25 years ago, I would have told you then too. This is July Sports Radio, right? Bringing up football plays, playoff plays from 20 years ago.

Hey, by the way, back in 1992. I watched that play. I'm telling you. Questionable at best, questionable at best. You sound like my- They stopped the clock.

I have no idea why. You sound like my uncle, who every time he watches football, whenever there's a running back, it doesn't matter how many running backs there's been since, he always goes, that guy was good, but he's no Sam Bam Cunningham. That's all, my uncle says it all the time. It doesn't matter who the running back is. The guy could be the next coming of Walter Payton. He'll be like, that guy, he's solid, but he's no Sam Bam Cunningham. That's what my uncle does when he watches football. Don't make me the old man yelling at the cloud. I'm bringing up a specific play.

I'm not telling you football in 1993 was better. No, but you're going to be that guy. Oh, by the way, real quickly. So you have three kids now, Mark. Correct.

Wolf. Phillip Rivers and his wife just announced they're having baby number 10. Your thoughts? I don't see the problem, he's got money. You got money and you've got- That's a lot of kids though.

I don't care. You give me Phillip Rivers' money, I'll have 14 kids. What the hell's the difference? I got a room for each one of them. I got food to put on the table and I got their college fund taken care of.

I would love to hang out with them and I don't have to work, sign me up. The difference is try raising three or four when you don't have 10 cents to put together and you got two rooms in the house. That's where the real all pro and hall of famer comes in.

The great fathers of the NFL, Rivers, Cromartie, Bolletti. I'm just saying, no, not put it on me because you got 10 kids. You got a problem because what are you doing if you got a normal, regular normal job? You got money and you got a mansion and you got a room for every one of them? How do you get all the kids together in one car? Zach, you don't need one car. You got people driving you around. You can get four of them. What the hell's the difference? I don't know.

You could buy a bus, who cares? Phillip Rivers doesn't come off to be someone who has a private driver. He's not going to have the night where he goes, oh man, I haven't slept.

Why? He's got people at night, nurses watching them. He gets up refreshed in the morning. How difficult is it to play with the kids? They're playing with each other. You think he forgets their names? They take care of each other when they got brothers and sisters, they play. They don't come to you. Nobody wants to play with the old busted, broken down man.

They want to play with their brother and sister. Especially, Rivers has no rings. He doesn't impress them. Let's just see. This is what McKeon does.

That's the second time McKeon's made that joke now. That's easy. You got money.

I don't care how many kids you got. That's easy. You're listening to the Zach Gelb Show. Now this is why I like McKeon when he fills in, get a little Springsteen.

He's growing on me. Well, let me ask you this. That's not in the system, right? No. Yeah. That's like one Springsteen song in the system, which is crazy.

No, it's not even that. I think it's this song called Ramrod actually. But regardless though, I think I've turned you on to Springsteen. Grown on me for sure.

I don't know if it was necessarily you that did it. I want to see him live. That's my thing.

I keep hearing from people. He's one of the all time live acts. So I want to get myself to one of those live acts.

But I don't know Zach. I might have to. Is this your way of you saying if you have an extra ticket, hit me up? Maybe.

Call me maybe? It's one of those like, he is so hard to get tickets to for a reasonable price. He's entered that sphere of Taylor Swift everywhere it's impossible to get seats.

Time out. So the Taylor Swift thing, and this comes from a Springsteen fan, I know how much Springsteen tickets could cost. You can get your hands on Springsteen tickets and like you got to spend money, but it's not life changing money. It's not the average concert. But the Taylor Swift, people pay like a grand to go see Taylor Swift.

Which I don't get. I was seeing seats for the MetLife show. It was like $1,300 for seats in the upper level behind the stage. I don't know who's paying that to see. She puts on a great show. I'll say this.

I'm sure she does. I don't know about you. Wait, wait, now do me a favor here.

I really don't want you to. Yeah, because I like Taylor Swift and I don't need the Taylor Swifties to then listen in and then think this show is bashing Taylor Swift. I don't think a lot of 15 year old girls listening to the show. No offense.

You never know. Here's my thing. I knew Taylor Swift was popular. Queen.

Great. She's amazing. I didn't know she was like Beyonce level. Did you know she was this level of psycho fan like crazed popularity? I've never seen a concert where 30,000 something people are outside singing along.

Oh, yeah. 30,000 outside the stage. She's filling football stage for multiple nights on a row.

That's what's crazy to me, too. She's not doing MetLife or Gillette Stadium for one night. She's filling NFL stadiums three, four nights in a row.

And adding more shows during the tour scene. It is crazy. I didn't know she had the cult following that she does.

I knew she had a large following and clearly knew she was a big, big, big, big, big deal. But I didn't know you would get like 40,000 people outside. You can't be paying. There's no concert you pay $1,000 to go to, right? Probably not. They couldn't. Last time Springsteen's tour and I would, though.

He announced his final tour. Yeah. Pits seats, you're paying $1,000 to go.

Yeah, I would. You know who grandparents live in my grandparents' community? Their assisted living? Who's?

Lady Gaga. Wow. That's what I found out. That's where they're living? It's a nice place. It's not like... She might be single. There's a wife.

That'd be pretty cool. Haven't run into her yet, though. Zach Gaga. Don't think that's going to happen. Lady Gelb. Lady Gelb. You jackass.