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Welcome back to Words of Life. Thanks so much for listening. We hope you enjoy. Trusting God in our unexpected seasons is the rigorous journey to embedding a vital belief deep within us. God is powerful and he is also good.
Welcome back to Words of Life. I'm Bernie Dake, and I am very excited to have for week three our guest, Nicole Yunus, who's written this incredible book called Not What I Signed Up For. If you haven't heard the previous episodes, check it out. You know how to do it. But here's a deal: we're going to make with the first 25 listeners that reach out to us by sending us a note at hello at wordsoflifepodcast.org.
Send us a note, of course, with your address to hello at wordsoflifepodcast.org. Hey, take a second to tell us what you think about the show. and we will send you a free copy of this book, just the first 25 listeners. For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts.
At Thrive Ent, planning your finances is bigger than just money. We help you put your plans into motion and faith into action so you can do more for the ones in your heart. Because sometimes all you need to make a difference is someone to help you make it happen. ThriveEnt, where money means more. Connect with us at ThriveEnt.com.
Nicole, welcome back. Yay, I'm so glad to be back, and I'm so glad you guys are going to get some of these books in some of the listeners' hands. I really love journeying with people. I often say about this particular book and this study guide: this is an invitation to be gentle with yourself. If you're in a not what I signed up for season, just recently had someone come up to me at an event where I had been teaching, and they were like, I just, I like, I want to get ready for week one.
I was like, You don't have to do everything in there. Like, you can, you can just say, if it's a new habit for you, what would it be like to sit with God 15 minutes a day? Just start there. That's okay. Like, it's always okay to start somewhere.
I so deeply believe that the Holy Spirit wants to comfort and encourage and express his presence to us. We're just so frantically busy and so frantically wrapped up that I think step one is just 15 minutes. And so, that's my invitation. If you're not in that place yet, Maybe this book and study guide could help you get there.
Now, I don't know if you're familiar with this great Christian author, C.S. Lewis. Heard of him before. But he wrote a book called A Grief Observed, which basically was him honestly working through the death of his wife and shaking his fists at God, in a sense. But just being very transparent.
If you're someone who's gone through a season or a trial, it's an incredible resource. But that is exactly what your book is to me. In the present day, I want to ask this question. When there is a difficult season that we find ourselves in and probably even upset with God, if He is so powerful and good, why am I going through this? How do you explain that to someone?
Mm.
Well First of all, I would say I would never endeavor to explain that to you. I think that's step one is that when we're in a place like that, and maybe you're even on a journey of, you know, asking why, which is the beginning of becoming to understand God. Maybe you're still stuck in blaming yourself or blaming someone else. One of my favorite theologians, Carolyn Custis James, says, the minute you ask why, you become a theologian. You're asking the question of who God is.
Anyone who's been through anything difficult has to reckon somewhere inside of you, if you were to stay with it and you move past blaming yourself or blaming others and you stay there, you're going to ask the question, if God is good, why would a bad thing happen to me? He must not be powerful. If God is good, he must not be powerful because he wouldn't let this thing happen. Or if God is powerful, he must not be good because he couldn't let this thing happen. And we get to this moment where these two attributes of God seem to be fighting one another.
They don't seem to both be able to exist. And if I can teach us one little thing in this like three minutes, I want to teach you one word. And the word is anti- Antinomy. Antinomy is a word that means when two things seem to be opposite of one another, but coexist. It's not the same as a paradox.
A paradox is just a twist of phrase. It's like jumbo shrimp. It's a thing that exists, but you just, it sounds like it doesn't. An antinomy is actually a thing that exists that really does stand in opposition to each other. And I'm borrowing this from J.I.
Packard. This is a big thought, but the concept here is the best way to describe it is the way we understand light. You don't have to be a physicist, but this is really cool. Light exists in particles and waves at different times. Nobody can explain it.
Physicists can't explain it. It's like saying that in the ocean, sand and water are the same thing. But it's so opposing in its nature. The fact that light sometimes seems like particles and sometimes seems like waves, it doesn't make any sense. That's an antinomy.
There has to be a part of our lives where, when we are in a time of suffering, recognizing God can exist in two attributes that don't seem to make sense to me, and it doesn't mean that they're not true. Just because I can't explain this season and may never be able to doesn't mean that God is not good. Just because it seems like God is absent doesn't mean He is.
So, step one is actually surrendering and accepting. That things can go a certain way that we ourselves may not be able to explain on this side of heaven. That does not mean that God is neither powerful nor good. It means that his ways are higher than our ways. And that's why I don't try to explain people's particular situations, but I do ask the question: do you believe that?
Life can still be good in suffering. Because that's step one. Like, could life still be good in suffering? I think that's the question we all have to answer when we come to a not what I sight at for season. If I were to say to you, does God send us difficult seasons or does he use them?
All right, well, I'm going to, there's a theologian who says that God is a divine juggler. And he can juggle with anything that comes his way. And I love that. I actually appreciate the playful creativity of that analogy, which is sort of right in between, right? Like it's like, yeah, no, God is in control, and yes, God can juggle together.
The things that life brings to us into a redemptive mosaic, a redemptive picture. And I do believe that to be true 100%. Yeah. For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts.
At Thrive Ent, planning your finances is bigger than just money. We help you put your plans into motion and faith into action so you can do more for the ones in your heart. Because sometimes all you need to make a difference is someone to help you make it happen. Thriveent, where money means more. Connect with us at Thriveent.com.
For me, my own season from 2020 was quite humbling. You know, there's You just have to realize that you can't do it on your own. That well, that was my realization. Yeah. And I was surrounded by an incredible community of people who, in a sense, were my stretcher bearers, you know?
How would you say humility impacts the way that we live out our faith? Mm, mm, absolutely. You know, um When Joseph, at the very end of the story of Joseph, which we dive deep into in the story and study guide, but at the very end of the story, it's really important to understand: Joseph re-engages these brothers that had betrayed him and left him for dead. He forgives them when he first sees them, and then they fall at his feet again, many years later, when their dad dies. It's like they were carrying the guilt and the weight of expecting Joseph to.
Take revenge on them. And they thought their dad was the protection. And so when their dad died, they fell at Joseph's feet again.
So it was clear that they were still living out this like regret and guilt from what they had done back when they were all teenagers and young adults. And in that moment, Joseph speaks kindly to them. And what he actually says is, Am I in the place of God? Like, that's how he explains things. And to me, that's so inherently humble because it's basically this deep DNA level understanding that God is God and I'm not, which means I know my rightful place in the world.
It's not to make you small or like to squish you down or to make you feel less than. It's actually just to be appropriately placed in the world. It's actually very freeing to be appropriately placed in the world because your world is a little more narrow, and you're like, wait a second, I'm here to love God and serve God. And so I just have my marching orders every day. And if I'm laid up in a hospital bed and I'm loving God and serving God by receiving love from others, and maybe by just enduring suffering and asking God for his help.
That I'm doing my part, like in this world, in this little lifetime that we have in the span of eternity, this tiny little blip in the span of eternity. I think that kind of, Setting of our character and our soul, I'm going to say it, I think, almost always only comes out of trial. Like, again, I wish it wasn't the case, Bernie. I wish that we learned these things in the good times. Yeah.
But it just doesn't seem to be that way. There's something about a redemptive story. And by redemptive, I mean the ability to look at a hard time and to see the good that came from that time. That would be just completely outside of Christianity. That's just what redemption means.
There are studies that have been done, longitudinal studies on people. People who experience the most well-being and generativity, meaning like a desire to impact the next generation at the end of their life, they tell redemptive life stories about their own lives. This is a non-Christian study. This is just a developmental psychology study.
So fascinating to me, that understanding of, wait a second, what if it's not about what I've been through, but about the way I interpret what I've been through? What if that's what life is really about? What if redemption is really laying down my right to tell my own story and allowing God to be the one who tells my story? That actually is humility. I love that it's from Micah, but you know, do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God.
And the humble side, sometimes I joke, I'll say, you know, I'm the most humble person in the room. I have a t-shirt that says most humble. That's not humility we're talking about. Right. And then I love 2 Corinthians.
Paul's telling a story about he heard God speak to him: My grace is enough. It's all you need. My strength is made perfect in your weakness. And I don't want to send our listeners into a room thinking that being humble is being weak. But it's okay.
Surrender and let God be your strength. That's a good thing. Uh Well, there's a lot there. Man. I wouldn't mind jumping in really quick.
The heart behind at least the first part of this year for us, which I don't think historically Words of Life has always done a great job about, I think it's definitely focused more on building up the saints than really reaching the lost because not many lost people are going to tune into a Christian podcast. But I was just feeling a tug from the spirit that we needed to focus more on that. And so we started off the year with Craig Keener, and we were talking about just hang-ups people have as far as even believing at all. And I love that you were talking about the seemingly polar opposite of being all-powerful and all-good. And do you know who Neil deGrasse Tyson is?
So I'm a huge fan of the work that he does as I love space and everything. Famously, I love space too, Bernie. Be quiet.
Okay, sorry. But famously, you know, he was arguing for atheism, and he was making that point that he says in most religions. God is all powerful and all good, but he can't be both. And I love that you addressed that because I think So many, maybe baby Christians or people that don't believe in at all, one of their detractors always comes back to like unanswered prayers. And if we're only following God, because we're like, oh, well, He answers my prayers.
If we're making that kind of the point or the hub of our faith, we're going to be let down really quick. And there's so much more to what we experience making us. a more developed person, someone who can actually impact the world instead of just you know, a saltine cracker version of this. Yeah, I think it's time, you know, in our world too. I try to do this when I teach too, and it could be just becoming like more of an elder.
But I'm like, I'm not going to talk down to people and I'm not here to sell this. Like, I just recently was listening to something that was like, don't follow, I think it was Tim Keller, don't follow Jesus because it's easy. Follow Jesus because it's true. Like, it's not, it's not actually like, I can't sell this to you for a short-term gain. Like, this is not how it works.
We do it because it's true. As we do it while it's true, we discover good and free life along the way. I like what you're saying, Chris, about like just the purpose of prayer and I had this quote in my Bible from Oswald Chambers. The purpose of prayer is not about getting an answer, it's about getting hold of God. And just like, even just that framework of like, so much we want to know the answer of why this stuff is happening, why this stuff, when really all it is is just like God.
Pursuing a closer relationship with his people. And if our circumstances lead us to draw closer to God, you know, that's the goal. Ultimately, We are not short on content with these episodes. I wish we had more time. I have been encouraged by your prayers.
We had talked about that. There's prayers in the study guide that listeners can find on their own if they don't know how to pray. But it's really been a blessing to have you just pray over us.
So Nicole, I'm going to invite you to close out our episode. with a prayer. Father God, you tell us from beginning to end that you are a God of redemption.
So, Lord, in the ways that we don't understand, would you help us to trust your presence? In the ways that we can't reconcile, would you help us to trust your love? In the ways that things don't add up right now in life, would you help us to know and experience your grace? Thank you, God, that we can trust and experience your joy even in the midst of the worst storm. Amen.
Mm-hmm. The Salvation Army's mission, doing the most good, means helping people with material and spiritual needs. You become a part of this mission every time you give to the Salvation Army. Visit SalvationArmyUSA.org to offer your support. You can subscribe to Words of Life on your favorite podcast store or visit SalvationArmysoundcast.org.
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