Question and Answer Program No. 85

Masonry perpetuates the worship of what they call the great architect of the universe, and that can really mean anything.

They recognize a supreme being, but frankly, you can have someone from Taoism, Islam, Hinduism, Mormonism, Roman Catholicism, and, you know, the Baptist down the street, involved as Freemasons, believing that it fits their particular religion. So different religions all acknowledge this great architect of the universe. Hello and welcome to Wisdom for the Heart. The clip that you just heard was a portion of Stephen's answer to a question that he received from a listener. Today is the first Friday of the month, and the first and third Friday of each month is a day that we set aside to answer some questions that have come in from you, our listening audience. The number that you can call if you have a Bible question for Stephen is 910-808-9384, and you can use that number anytime to ask your question.

We're ready to get started, so here's our first question of the day. Hi, this is Carol. I'm calling from Fayetteville, and I'm calling to find out what Dr. Davey thinks about the practice of Freemasonry and what the Bible has to say about their teachings. There's a lot of information that's out about Freemasonry that seems to be incompatible with Christianity, but I would just like to hear what Dr. Davey has to say and also how that would affect any people that are a part of Freemasonry in church leadership.

Thank you, and we really enjoy your show. Carol, thank you so much for calling in with your question. Stephen, I've heard of Freemasonry, but I don't know that much about it, so I'm kind of like Carol, I think.

Sure. Well, we won't take the time to discuss everything about what they believe. In fact, the difficulty with determining Masonry or Freemasonry is it's so broad and so wide and so many people saying so many different things all under the same umbrella.

So let's just talk about what we know. I don't know about you, friends, but you may know Masons. I certainly have known some in the past. I knew one Mason who was very high up. In fact, he served as the chaplain of his particular region or group. I'm not sure what the particular word was for it, and over time left it primarily because of the incompatibility of Freemasonry with the Gospel and with Scripture.

It is troubling, certainly, to me on a number of fronts. Masonry perpetuates the worship of what they call the great architect of the universe, and that can really mean anything. They recognize a supreme being, but frankly, you can have someone from Taoism, Islam, Hinduism, Mormonism, Roman Catholicism, and the Baptists down the street involved as Freemasons believing that it fits their particular religion. So different religions all acknowledge this great architect of the universe, and they would simply say they call God by different names. Well, frankly, that isn't true to Scripture. We know that the embodiment of the true and living God is Jesus Christ, God incarnate. He has a name. It isn't Allah.

It is Elohim and his Son, Jesus Christ the Messiah. It bothers me that while we as Christians view the Bible clearly as the authoritative word of God, for Masons the Bible is just one of many books. In fact, there are a lot of different kinds of sacred Scriptures out there. I have copies of these books in my library, but they're not sacred, inspired Scripture. I have a copy of the Qur'an, I've got a copy of the Bhagavad Gita, and I have a copy of the Book of Mormon and other books. These are not equally inspired books.

Only the Bible comes from God as the breath of God. The others are spurious, and they preach and teach another gospel. We believe, as Christians, that we're born again by faith in Christ alone. Masonry teaches, like any other false religious system, that you can earn your salvation by good works. By the way, we're not to have open or secret beliefs.

We're not to do things in secret. And in masonry, there are lots of various levels of secrecy, and as you go up one level after another, you progress and you find out more and more. I can take you back to the early centuries, the second, third, and fourth century, with Gnosticism, and Gnosticism was a false religion that gave you special knowledge as one of the special initiates, and as you moved on to higher levels, you got more and more truth. Well, actually, it was more and more deception.

It was more and more untruths. It wasn't Christianity. And so, again, to our friend's question, Scott, you know, can a Mason be a Christian? Can a Mason be a member of any evangelical church? Or, let's turn it around, can someone be a member of an evangelical church and be a Mason? Well, I would say that they'd have to be a really bad Mason and not believe most of the things are being taught. Or, like my friend from years ago, they're going to be a Mason only temporarily until they recognize and admit it is a different gospel and it is not Scripture, and they're worshipping a different God from the Bible. And my Bible tells me, as Paul wrote to the Galatians, that if anybody comes to you teaching a different gospel, even if it's an angel from heaven, if they're preaching a gospel other than the one we preach to you, let them be accursed. That is, let them be under the curse of God.

Why? Because they're false teachers. And so, for those of you that are in Masonry, take a good hard look, don't close your eyes, evaluate it according to Scripture, and then my recommendation would be to get out, to leave it. And my recommendation to pastors would be to simply hold to the truth of Scripture and evaluate any religious system against the truth of Scripture.

Now, a Mason would say, hey, we're not a religion. Well, then why do you do so many things related to religion? Why do you have these statements? Why do you have these rituals? Why do you have baptism? Why do you have beliefs? Why do you have chaplains? That was very religious to me, and it is, in my view, a false religion. Yeah, thanks, Stephen. As I was listening to your answer to Carol, it struck me, people are involved in all sorts of clubs and organizations, but it sounds like what's troubling about Freemasonry is that they're trying to bring these religious aspects into their organization, and it ends up being a polluted form of religion, and that's what makes it dangerous, compared to another club or an organization that stares clear of religion as a whole. Absolutely. If you want to become a member of a club that plays golf, go play golf.

Play it like I do, in the woods, usually. But don't join an organization that has all of these nods toward religion and God redefining him, contrary to the definitions of Scripture. Stay clear of such organizations. I'll also point out, Carol, before we move on, the things that Stephen has said.

I can't necessarily think of an example, but any other organization besides Freemasonry that does the same thing, the same warnings would apply. Well, Carol, thank you so much for calling in with your questions. We were glad to hear from you. The number that Carol used to reach us is 910-808-9384. That's a number that we've set up for you to call in with your question regarding the Bible or the Christian faith, anything that you'd like Stephen to answer on a future broadcast.

We don't answer that number. It's only set up for you to call in with your question. If you would like to speak with us, or if we can help you in any way, please call our office number. But once again, the Bible question line is 910-808-9384. We were happy to receive this question from John. Hi guys.

My name is John and I'm calling from Hickory, North Carolina. And the question that I have for Pastor David is in Deuteronomy chapter 18, Moses is talking about a prophet, he's prophesizing about a prophet. And my question to you is, is that prophecy about Jesus Christ or is it about another prophet that was already there in Israel or another prophet that he would be coming at a lot of times?

So please answer me that question. Thank you so very much. Well, thank you, John, for calling in with your question.

We were glad to hear from you. And Stephen, John is correct in that Deuteronomy 18, starting in verse 15, Moses does refer to a prophet who will come. And Stephen, who's Moses referring to? Well, I think we have an immediate application of the text and we have a broader application. As believers, we can certainly look at Old Testament texts like these and see the Lord in them. And I think there's truth to that.

Let me refer to that in a moment. The immediate application and understanding of the text is simply the guidelines for identifying a true prophet. How do you know a prophet who's going to show up in Israel is really speaking for God?

And that's what he's doing. So you have, for instance, in verse 20, the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in my name, which I've not commanded him to speak. That prophet shall die. So how did you take care of false prophets in Israel? Well, it's a short lifespan.

Let's just say it that way. In fact, later on in that same paragraph, he says, when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken presumptuously.

You shall not be afraid of him. In fact, we know from the Old Testament, one of the early tests of genuine prophets was they were supposed to give a prophecy of something that was supposed to happen. And then everybody waited around to see if it happened. And if it didn't happen, they gathered stones and they killed him. They executed judgment from God on the false prophet. God had little patience with false prophets. If you go back into this text, John, and you look at the earlier paragraph, he's forbidding any number of different things so that the people don't imitate unbelieving nations. Everything from witchcraft, sorcery, interpreting omens, casting spells, mediums, spiritists, those who call up or speak to the dead, and then he gets into the prophets. He's dealing with all of these potentially misleading individuals who will say they are speaking for God or genuine spirituality, but they're going to lead the people astray.

So that's the immediate context. He's simply giving the principles of what's truth. Stay in the Word, and if a man says he's speaking for God, if it doesn't come true, he isn't, and you execute him. Now the broader application that I mentioned earlier is, yes, what greater prophet is there? In fact, he is the final prophet. The writer of Hebrews said that God spoke in the past in many different ways and means, but in these last days he has spoken unto us by or through his Son. We're not looking for another prophet to show up after Jesus. We're simply following the words of Jesus, the true prophet. So yes, you can build back into this chapter in Deuteronomy, the truth of Christ.

I'll give you one illustration and then we'll leave this question. But the resurrected Lord in the Gospel by Luke in chapter 24 and verse 27, you remember he's talking to these two discouraged disciples along what we call the road to Emmaus. And the Lord says, in fact, Luke says of the Lord, "...and beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself."

Don't you love that? So Jesus can go back to Deuteronomy 18 and he can say, guess what? I'm the fulfillment ultimately of the true prophet of God. He's our great high priest, he's our great prophet, and of course our king.

And these passages in the Old Testament ultimately do, in a broader application, point to him. Yeah, thank you, Stephen. And thank you again, John, for calling in with your question.

We were glad to hear from you. Stephen, we received this question from a listener in Georgia. I was in Bible study last night, and the pastor said that it's okay to sit and listen to a pastor preach when you know he's not living right, when you know he's out there fornicating and abusing his wife mentally as well as physically. He said that it's okay, we're not there to see the pastor, we're there to hear the Word of God, that you don't look at what the pastor do, you're just listening to the Word of God. Can you really give me some scriptures on that? I know it's tempting about what a pastor's job is.

Thank you. Well, Stephen, there's a lot of nuances to this question, but in essence there's a pastor who is apparently teaching God's Word, but his lifestyle does not match what he teaches, and she needs help. That's an excellent question, thank you for asking it, and it's not a new problem, by the way. In fact, it was a problem going all the way back to the first century church. We know that because the Apostle Paul, under the direction of the Holy Spirit, said that there's more to a minister than his message. There's more to a pastor than his preaching. There has to be something about his life that coincides with the qualifications that God delivers so that when the Word is preached, it is not discredited by an unrepentant lifestyle.

So let me kind of back up a little bit and just encourage you that it's an old problem. So what you're facing in your church, don't think you're the only church or you're the only Christian to have struggled with this issue. And I can tell you, as a pastor, teacher, elder, this is a—and it's got across the desk from me here as an elder in our church, pastor in our church—we never go to sleep without this thought in our minds and hearts.

It's a heavy, heavy burden, this mantle of being a shepherd and what it requires of us, not just in our preaching and our teaching, but our personal lives. So let's go to what the Bible says about the subject. If you go to Titus chapter 1 or 1 Timothy chapter 3, you find the same list, basically, of 23 standards. So let's look at what Paul says to Titus in chapter 1. He says, if you look down at verse 7, For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward. Now that right there leads all of us who are in the ministry to say, well, I need to quit now. Well, understand if you're a pastor, and I'm sure you do understand that the word above reproach isn't referring to perfection, it's referring to a pattern. This is the pattern of a man's life. A pastor, like any other Christian, is a fallen sinner, and sinners sin.

But here's the key difference. The elder, the pastor, while not having attained a godly perfection and no Christian will, he is committed to demonstrating a godly pattern in his life. No pastor can lay claim to a flawless perfection, but he can demonstrate faithful progression, and he needs to model it to the church family.

So what does Paul mean when he says above reproach? It means he is pursuing a pattern of faithful, biblical, godly living as it relates to his marriage, his children, his character, his lifestyle. And by the way, why should he be pursuing this pattern? Well, because his life is a pattern for everybody following him. Leadership is influence. The pastorate is an endorsement of activity and a lifestyle. The very nature of leadership invites imitation. In fact, Paul said that to the believers in Philippi in Philippians 3.17, "'Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us.'" So because of the very nature of leadership that invites imitation, you have to make sure the pastors are living lives worth imitating. So, if I can summarize it, what he does publicly is qualified by how he lives privately.

We're not going to say, like the average politician today, hey, what I do in private doesn't matter, you know, I'm still a good leader. Well, that doesn't fit the biblical pattern of an elder. It may work in the corporate world, and I don't think it really works there either, by the way, but it certainly isn't to work in the Church. So those who are leading the body, the bride of Christ, they lead, not by perfection, but by progression, a pattern. Above reproach literally could be translated without a handle.

That means there isn't anything about your life that can become a handle where someone can grab you and say, you are clearly in sin here. And by the way, for the congregation, Paul gives a pretty stern warning in his letter to Timothy. He says that an elder shouldn't be accused without two or three witnesses. So make sure before you accuse an elder of something that it is indeed true. These are highly impactful.

These are highly explosive issues. And Scott, you know, she's asking, should I be listening to him? Well, I can't help but think of what an older believer told me one time, and that is that God can use a crooked stick to draw a straight line. Well, there is truth to that, and I know that in me there is no good thing. Only the Spirit of God through me can preach a message and back it up with a lifestyle. But I can't use that to say, hey, I'm going to live a crooked life and God's going to draw a straight line because I'm teaching the Scripture.

According to the New Testament, we need straight lives, drawing straight lines. And any man who's failing or refusing to repent of open and known sin isn't worth following, and he certainly isn't worth listening to. Thank you, Stephen, for that practical advice from God's Word. And thank you also to our listener.

It's a really difficult situation that she finds herself in, and we're glad that you would call in for help. Friends, I want to let you know that Stephen has preached a series on this topic that I think you might find helpful. If you go to our website, which you'll find at wisdomonline.org, Stephen has a series that he preached from Titus chapter 1 verses 5 through 16 called The Shepherd's Mantle.

The most relevant message to the topic we're discussing today is the second lesson in that series called Raising the Bar from Titus 1.6. But that entire series, The Shepherd's Mantle, will help you. Once you get to that website, you will be able to download a printed transcript of each of those messages. You can listen to those messages absolutely free right from that website.

Or, if you prefer, we can send you CDs of that series. All of that will be found at wisdomonline.org and search for The Shepherd's Mantle. Before we move on to another question, let me give you the phone number that you can use if you have a Bible question for Stephen. Just dial 910-808-9384. You can call that number anytime. If you're listening to a message and you want clarification, you're in a Bible study and you have a question, or just you're reading God's Word for yourself and you've come across something that you don't understand, anytime, night or day, you can dial 910-808-9384 and ask your question, which is exactly what this listener did. Hey, Dr. Davey. This is Charlotte.

I'm from Clayton, North Carolina. I listen to you every morning on 92.5 and I get such a blessing. My question to you is, what is your interpretation of the scripture in Revelation 12, where it says, There appeared a great wonder in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. According to NASA, this year, September 23rd, this particular scripture will be fulfilled.

Thousands of years ago when this was written, they had no way of knowing that one day we would have the technology to be able to see in the heavens. So, I was just wondering what your interpretation of this is, because the planet is supposed to line up and fulfill this scripture on September 23rd of this year. Thank you so much and keep up the good work. I enjoy you. Bye.

Charlotte, thank you for calling in with your question. And Stephen, I'll throw it right over to you. Can we interpret Revelation 12 in terms of planet alignment? Well, I mean, obviously there will be alignment and a lot of things are going to be taking place through the book of Revelation, but as it relates to NASA's prediction that somehow you're going to have some kind of alignment in September, and maybe this is Revelation chapter 12, the great problem you've got with that is, look at what's happening around chapter 12. If what happens in chapter 12 is this alignment that's going to take place in September, a lot of things are going to have to happen before then, because as I'm looking at the book of Revelation and understanding it and taking it as progression, sequentially things are happening, you've got all of these trumpet judgments that are going to take place first. So these angels blowing on these trumpets, which indicate great judgment, they better start playing the trumpets, because the first one's going to sound, there's going to be hail and fire mixed with blood, that's chapter 8. A third of the earth is going to be burned up, a third of the trees are going to be burned up, and all the green grass burned up. That's just the first trumpet, okay?

I don't think that's happened yet, it better happen soon, this is August. The second angel sounds, it's like a great mountain burning with fires thrown into the sea, a third of the sea becomes blood, and on and on. These are, and I'm just reading here, you can hear the pages of my Bible training, these are things that are going to happen prior to what happens in chapter 12. So if what happens in chapter 12 is something NASA predicted that's going to take place in September, we have other issues, don't we?

So what is happening here? Who is this woman? In my research, I came across a number of different opinions. One is Mary Baker Eddy, who believed she was the woman herself, and the child that she bore that John talks about in Revelation chapter 12, and the woman gave birth to a child, she thought that was her, and the child was the Christian Science Movement, and that came about in 1879. Well, unfortunately, tragically, Mary Baker Eddy now knows that she was not this woman. The Roman Catholic Church believes it's Mary, and of course in their deification of Mary to equal status with Christ, they would hold this to be her as the Queen of Heaven. The trouble is, in this text, it's talking about a woman already crowned and yet still pregnant with this child, and so that doesn't fit very well. A third view holds that the woman represents God himself, but that's going to be difficult because you have God delivering God and then having to run from the dragon, and I don't think God's going to run from the dragon. Of course, you have the view the Church is the woman, the Bride of Christ, and certainly the Church is referred to as a woman, as the Bride, but the Church did not give birth to Christ.

Christ gave birth to the Church, and I think that I'm sort of tipping my hand here, aren't I? I think the view that fits the context of the chapter as well as the rest of Scripture is that the woman represents Israel. This is so because Christ is born as the seed of Israel.

He's Jewish of Jewish kin. The prophet Isaiah and the prophet Jeremiah both use the language of Israel being a woman in labor. We also know that Israel is under the heel of Rome when Christ is born.

You have the added persecution by Satan to wipe out the Christ child. Just review the Christmas story, as we call it, and the anguish of Israel as Herod has all the Jewish boys under the age of two killed. The symbolic appearance of the woman is tied to Israel. You have the sun and the moon and the twelve stars. In Genesis 37, Israel is clothed with the sun. The moon referring to Rachel as Jacob's wife and the mother of Joseph. The twelve stars, which perfectly represent the twelve tribes of Israel, and of course from them comes the birth of the Messiah.

So in short, the woman is Israel, Christ is the seed of the woman, and the battle is between the seed of Christ and the seed of Satan. And Stephen, we need to wrap up our time, but I'd also like to just point out that any time we tie a date to future prophecy, that's always a dangerous thing to do. Before we go, I do want to give you our office number. If we can help you in any way, we would love to hear from you today. And you can call us at 866-48-BIBLE.

That's 866-482-4253. We would love to hear from you. Thank you, Stephen. Thank you, Charlotte, for calling in. And friends, this takes us right up to the end of our program for today. Please join us on Monday for more Wisdom for the Heart.