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September 5, 2020 2:29 pm
Viewpoint is to examine the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism welcome to this additional viewpoint on Mormonism. I'm your host Bill McKeever Felder director Mormonism research ministry with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at MRM yesterday. We began looking at a smaller group of what is known, the as the restoration movement. It's called the Church of Christ with the Elijah message and the reason why were looking at some of the smaller groups that claim that Joseph Smith is the head of their church and some of them even claim to be the only true church despite the fact that other groups within the restoration movement hold to that same position. This one certainly does feel it is the only true church on earth and so were looking at a bit of the background and history of it. How did it get started. In such an yesterday we mentioned a man by the name of Otto Fetty and he's really the one who's responsible for organizing this group in 1929 in fact, it was October 1929. It's real easy to remember that date because of course in our American history October 1929 was when the Great Depression began with the crash of the stock market. So, this group starts around that same time it started by guy as I said, by the name of Otto fitting. He was born January 20, 1871. He died on January he was born on November 20, 1871 and he died on January 30, 1933, as we mentioned yesterday, Eric.
They use mainly the King James version of the Bible as well as what they called a record of the fights, the record of the neophytes folks is just another title for the book of Mormon. They claim to use in 1836 edition.
Even though the book itself claims it's from the 1830 addition but they are very much into hearing the voice not so much of God the father or even Jesus Christ.
But the voice of John the Baptist yeah and and this is a religion that very clearly teaches that there is direct communication from God to the leaders today they've had 129 messages that took place.
From the time of setting until 1994 and then they started again in 2018.
We can talk about those about those messages later, but I want to talk about the main places of this faith is found mainly in Africa, Europe, United States, India and the Philippines and we talked yesterday that I thought about 12,500 will be an estimated number, but the leader of one of the apostles that I talked to said that now they have more than that, but it's hard to to find out what those numbers are and they even admit that they have fewer than 2000 people United States, which is where this religion started so that's pretty unique to have so few in the United States and so many supposedly in other lands.
Now normally they like the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints of 12 apostles, but there was a time when there were only 10 apostles known that it is now. Yeah, but as bit as of this recording. There are only 10 apostles in this church and I asked one of the apostles Terry laws why they only have 10 when they're supposed to have 12 and is as will a couple guys died. We just haven't got around to filling those spots so they can have as many as 12, but they're not as paranoid as the LDS church they're going to at the next general conference do their best to fill that spot back again because 12 is the number.
Also, just so we understand this is one of the three religions were talking about.
That's based in Independence, Missouri and the church world headquarters they call it our base their and someday they would like to have the temple lot of the group that we talked about last week to be able to build the temple and they believe they will get to build that temple either just before Jesus returns or just after.
And the millennium starts that they will have a chance to build a temple that won't be anything like LDS temples because no work for the dead will be done and I'm not even quite sure what they want to do inside the temple, but they hold firmly that that temple will be there someday in your study of this group did you find anything that told you how they felt they were going to get that property from the group that owns it. Right now the temple lot group because the temple lot group was pretty tenacious even with the court in order to fight over that lot because they do believe that is the lot that Joseph Smith dedicated for the building of this temple.
I just find it difficult that this group is going to be able to secure the land to build the temple that they want to build.
I don't really think they're that concerned about it because in fact what I read, it seems like they are more thinking that they'll get that after Jesus returns. They do believe we been in the tribulation since 1990 or so. So he is not a seven year tribulation, but we are in the midst of the tribulation and for those of us living through 2020.
We can say well maybe there's a point there, but but we have a millennium that's going to happen when Jesus returns, and I think there completely satisfied.
Waiting until Jesus returns because how are the temple lot leaders not going to allow Jesus to take over the temple when he says I need this temple. So these guys are. I need this land is so that we can build the temple that was promised by Joseph Smith in 1831 and I guess if that was to happen the way they predict that would prove that they are the only true church in the temple lot group cannot possibly be as they believe. Now they do like to use Bible verses and so that's something. If you ever get to talk to somebody in this group that's a positive thing. They really do believe in the King James version. They hardly ever quote the record of the neophytes nor do they quote from the messages that are direct revelations from John the Baptist to their leaders and I want to read the introductory page of the website and just give you an idea of some of the verses that use this is what they right.
We are the Church of Christ with the Eliza message with the Eliza message, and we proclaim the midnight cry spoke, spoken of in Matthew chapter 25 Matthew chapter 25 Bill is talking about the 10 versions and verse six talks and things were six written verse six talks about the court this midnight cry that the virgins were supposed to be waiting patiently for the coming of Jesus and it goes on and says our church is been established of God to proclaim the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. If he heard that before. Yes is very similar to what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints claims it also has the fullness of the gospel but yet when you compare what they think the gospel is computer and to this group. Certainly, that fullness has different contains different messages. So there. They're here to proclaim the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ and to warn the world that the second coming of Christ is near at hand. As we mentioned yesterday, this group is very eschatological minded. They are looking forward to the coming of Jesus and establishment of the millennium. We are world church with local churches throughout the United States, Europe, Africa, India and the Philippines. We claim the same holy priesthood authority as the old Jerusalem church of the New Testament we proclaim to the world that the promise Elias has come as the Lord has promised according to Malachi 31 so insane that they claim the same holy priesthood authority as the old Jerusalem church of the New Testament is that priesthood authority priesthood.
The priesthood of believers because that's what the New Testament speaks of it does not speak that the early speak of this notion such as the LDS church as that there was a Aaronic priesthood or Melchizedek priesthood that was functioning in the early church we don't see that in the New Testament, they do use a variety of other verses but one that I wanted to point out was Revelation 14 six. This is what it says and I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach on to them that dwell on earth and to every nation in kindred, and tongue and people and this is been a verse used by LDS leaders to support the coming of the angel Moron.
I can't tell you how many times I've had Revelation 14, six given to me as proof that there would be this Moron I would bring the bold plates to Joseph Smith that he be able to translate the book of Mormon. But what's interesting is this group doesn't think it was Moron I even though they hold of the record of the neophytes. They think that this is supporting John the Baptist visits to one of three apostles who have lived since 1929.
So an interesting idea that there would be a messenger but they come they have a completely different idea than what the Mormons do before we look into the founder of this group was let's talk a little bit about what they believe regarding salvation in your chart that you have in your article Eric. You say that they believe in faith, repentance, baptism and the laying on of hands, along with obedience.
Now, again, that sounds very similar to what we find in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. How do they define obedience. How many Commandments mostly obey how often must they obey them in his strict and are they to hold strictly to this word, obedience, or is there some wiggle room as they understand. I had an hour long conversation with one of the church's 10 apostles Terry laws he's from Kansas and was a very cordial conversation on the phone.
I asked that question that you're asking right now. I said okay these are the things I have to do, and he made it a point I had to be baptized by them.
Even though I have been baptized in a Christian church. He says we have the true baptism so they would hold to the same idea as the old he is absolutely they alone have the authority to baptize and when you believe that baptism is a salvific act, then naturally, that becomes very important. You better be baptized by the right guys yet so they would think they're the right guys and and then the obedience part is, he told me Terry laws said you need to do the very best you can. I said well what if the very very best I can do is not good enough for what God's standards are.
He says God knows your heart. And as long as you're sincere.
You just need to do the very best and that's going to get you through to be able to get to. They do believe in a traditional heaven and a traditional how they do not believe in a three level kingdom three kingdoms of glory at all. They do breach they reject that. That's what Mormons believe, but the idea that the obedience is something you have to figure out what I find most interesting though is if you don't know about this church and you're a good person.
You also get to go to heaven. But if you know about this church and you reject what it has to say about truth and you don't join this church, then you are culpable and I even asked him I said before, I had a chance to know about your church. I've done the research. Now I didn't know anything and now I know a lot in my MI subject to possibly going to hell and he said you do have a possibility. Now that you know about us, that's very similar to the LDS church will lease I should say more specifically to something that Joseph Smith taught that if you were to die, not having any knowledge of the restored gospel and when it's preached to you in the spirit world and you embraced it there, you have an opportunity to go to the celestial kingdom.
However, if you knew about the restored gospel during your mortality and you rejected it you didn't believe it, or leave and fought against it, then the best you could ever hope to receive would be the second level of glory known as the terrestrial kingdom only if you embraced it in the spirit world. We would look at that as a kind of second chance for salvation. Although, as we talked about many times on this program. It's not really true salvation according to Mormonism. True salvation is being exalted in the celestial kingdom.
The top level of Mormon heaven. The best you could hope for.
If you embrace Mormonism after you die would be the terrestrial kingdom.
He would not become a God, you would not be with your family throughout eternity. What about that concept to you mention the phrase the more traditional heaven. They don't look at heaven as being a place where you are a family unit as the LDS people believe they don't believe that you were going to become a God over your own world either. So their view of heaven would be very different than the LDS church headquartered in Salt Lake City and we can talk about it more, but later this week, but that they do not accept anything that Joseph Smith said after 1836, so the view of God. The view of the Temple life in the three kingdoms of glory, etc. that they're not going to believe in that it will talk more about why they don't believe anything that Joseph Smith said is worth authoritative after 1836 in tomorrow's show. Thank you for listening you would like knowing formation research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter research. We hope you join us again as we look at another viewpoint is