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Ladies and gentlemen. It is great to be back. Welcome back. To the No Contest Wrestling Podcast. I am.
The heel that you love to hate, O'Shea Jackson Jr. Hey, yo, it's me. It's me. It's at T-O-J-I-G-G to JG. TJ Jefferson here.
And I just got to let y'all know. I'm sitting Across from a man on the wrestling podcast who's got the number one movie in the world, son, not only in the world in the theaters, but the number one streaming movie. That's right, streaming on Max. My brother, right here, my tag team partner, O'Shea Jackson Jr., who's looking at me, just going, like, doing a point.
Well, a point, and then, you know, and just congratulations to you, brother. I know what goes into this movie-making process, I understand how hard it is. And you guys pulled it off, man. And you got the number one movie in America, Den of Thieves 2 Pandera.
So congratulations to you, Jerry Butler, the entire cast, including. Thank you, man. And I just, before I get into it, I just want to thank everybody who Has gone out to support the film, especially the people in Los Angeles. We I mean, it's no secret. We are going through it right now when it comes to the fires and everything that's been going down with our city.
It's been really tough. I know a couple of people who have lost their homes.
So, to anybody who went out to go see the film, Uh from L A Taking the time out of this chaos. I couldn't be more grateful. Um, There's there's no no words I can say that will fully thank you the way that I feel.
Now that the nice stuff is out of the way, do you know why I'm in all black with? My cowboy hat, TJ. Because you got the number one movie in the world. Yeah, you know, like, usually we do this show, you guys. We do it for, you know, the fans.
You know, the love of wrestling, if you will. But today, this first segment. It's for the haters, man. Man, it must suck to lose, huh? That's crazy.
You see, I got my Roman Reigns title out right now because I'm in full heel mode right now. You know, I was told I was a one-trick pony, man, but you know, I am with a. Number one movie in the country. It's crazy out here, TJ. It must feel good.
I mean, you know. I knew this would happen. Kind of like our guest Oba Femi knew that he was going to be the champion. We knew. Like Drew McIntyre, you prayed for this and it happened.
Yeah, man. You know, it's, I appreciate every single one of you, you haters, your hulkamaniacs, everybody who tries to downplay or pray for my downfall. Thank you. That's the all. That's it all.
MCs have the gall to pray and pray for my downfall. Please, please. What you said is so true. Friday night, you know, it was four days since Tuesday. I've just, I've got two TVs and just one has just been dedicated on the news almost 24-7.
Like, and I'm just, I'm watching this news and I'm watching the fire burn. And I'm just, you know, I'm lucky. I'm going to say this. I'm blessed where I'm at. I live in an area of town that is pretty far away from all of this destruction.
But it doesn't take away the feelings because even though I'm not in the mix, I'm in the mix. I live here, man. I've been here 25 years. And I feel for these people, my brothers and my sisters who are losing. Everything that they've ever worked for.
And not only that, just the fear that's come. Withness This tragedy, this thing that's going on.
So Friday night came in, and I just needed a break, man. I needed to just kind of get away from watching the news and just feeling bad.
So, you know, I went to Go check you out seven o'clock on Friday night, man. And it was just a great, like two and a half hours just to kind of get my mind. Off of what's going on and everything that's happening, man. And it was just, it was, it was really nice to just get that escape. And then you come out, and reality, of course, is here, but it.
It was super necessary, man. For me, at least, I can only speak for me to just kind of take those. You know, two and a half hours away from staring at that news and just being sad and scared to All right, let me just put this energy somewhere else into my boy. And man, it was awesome. It was a great ride, man.
Man, I really appreciate that, man. I was flying in from New York when we got the news that we were number one. And I was so excited. And then I looked out the window of the plane. And you can see it all.
You can see it. And some of, like you, like you, like I said, you're LA to the bone, man. This is your city. And you love, I'm a transplant. You grew up here.
You love this city.
So I can imagine. For what I'm feeling, it's got to run even deeper for you. Your family's synonymous with this town. Yeah, and it's just like, I know so many people who have to start over, and it's one thing to. start over because You know, the the human spirit.
is that we are a resilient species. We can make it happen, we can adjust, but... California, man, it's it's hard to start over. here and you know that that Goes into just the cost of living, and so we send all prayers and you know, all well wishes to everybody out there. I appreciate you for going to go see your boy.
Um. But yeah, we we were able to Personally, I had to go through my house that I grew up in. And I had to go through there and help my parents pack things up, you know, and getting ready for evacuation. Luckily, nothing happened. But for the people that had to go through that and still lose everything, heart goes out to you.
I appreciate you. Yeah, it's just tragic, man. And it's, and you know, I know we're a wrestling podcast, so I don't want to get caught up in this too much, but there's so much misinformation. That's going on out there, man. And that's troubling.
You know, people who don't live in LA, who've never been to Los Angeles, making videos and making things worse. You know, it's already AI images of the Hollywood sun. Yeah, just like, and there's so, you know, just people who are in elected positions who are saying, I told you so, or you're trying to blame it on this guy or this woman. Look, man, unless. Unless Halle Berry's storm from X-Men came to life, there was nothing, and I don't even say it jokingly, there was, I just don't know what you were going to do to stop.
The winds that were 80 to 100 miles per hour. Insane. It's just, I just don't know. And I've heard a fire chief say that they would have. For a house fire, they usually use three to four trucks.
Imagine the amount of trucks that, the manpower that would have been needed to prevent that, man. And it's just. The way that I compare it is if. If a bear broke into your house, would you sit there and argue who let the bear in? No, you get the bear out the house before you start this nonsense, man.
There's people going through some hard times, man.
So it is our prayer, we'll get into the wrestling right after this, but we just wanted to take time because if we didn't, we wouldn't feel right. You know, and uh, and if we can give you just an hour away, like I said, like your movie gave me, if we can just give you an hour away from just like. Reality and just let you have some fun and talk about some wrestling. Then that's, you know, that's the most important thing that we can do. Absolutely.
And we, you know, before this all kicked off, We were on T V. Yeah, we were. We were on television. We were. You know, Monday night, you know, the second episode of Raw on Netflix.
You know, they did a little. A little recap. And you know, the funny thing is, there was you and I back to back in this open on Monday Night Raw on Netflix. And granted, like, yeah, did I jump into a shot? Sure.
Fluffy was next to me. Did I jump in the shot? Sure. Why wouldn't I have jumped in the shot? But guess what?
I got on the next week and you got on right after us. And it kind of poses the question: did the editor know? Like, what were the chances of you and I or Clutt being back to back in this thing? It's kind of crazy. I don't know.
It's scripted, bro. It's just written, man. The No Contest Wrestling Podcast. We're making waves out here. We're making moves.
And also, don't, don't. I know my man Rich got on you.
Well, like you jumping in the fluffy shot. Do you know what it takes to even be next to him? Right? That's stopping.
Well, no, look at it. They're giving me credit because my godson Bear there, he and I counted this. He was on TV for about 10 seconds. I popped my head in the shot for about 1.5 seconds. And then on the main show, Rich Eisen had the audacity to compare me to someone who would steal a baseball from a kid at a baseball game because I'd leaned into this shot.
No, you don't understand something. The reason Bear Kutcher was sitting there was because he inherited my love of wrestling. He came to me and said, God, Papa, what is this? And I showed him. I told him all about the legend of Andre the Giant.
The first two matches he ever watched Bell to Bell. Macho Man, Randy Savage versus Ricky Steamboat for the Intercontinental Championship at WrestleMania 3, and then Shawn Michaels against The Undertaker, Hell in the Cell. Those were the first two matches my man ever saw at Bell to Bell.
So one day, when that shot is in the Smithsonian for the longest-running episodic of all time, it's going to be there. I might be long gone, but Bear can remember one day. Oh, yeah, my godpapa took me to wrestling, man.
So, you know what? You can try to clown me all you want, but memory for me, man, that's gonna last forever, man.
So, I could care less with AIDS. And also, just for the viewers to know, Rich Eisen. New York Yankee fan. I don't think he should be talking about baseball for a while. I just don't think that's just his avenue right now.
Who wants Soto? Yeah, come on, dog. Like, leave my man TJ alone. But yeah, that was. An amazing episode.
Los Angeles is always the best place for a premiere. Catch your boy. Oh, my God. And again, we said this last week. What a national treasure.
Shout out to Pat McAfee for giving the podcast a little love. Yep. Look at him, man. And you know what? I know the haters hate that too.
And I'm happy for y'all. I'm happy that y'all got to see me like that. Make sure you go see Dennett Thieves 2 Pantera in theaters with your bitch ass. Anyway, got a great show for you today. Yeah, we got a great show.
We got my man Oba Femi in the building. New NXT heavyweight champion, the ruler. The ruler, bro. Can't wait to talk to him. Kind of see.
Can't wait for our bar fight question. Can't wait to see who he's going to pick in that. You know, you know. Just He was a he went to Alabama.
So, I gotta ask how Nick Saban didn't come make him put on pads and play football. Like, how do you see this guy as a shot putter in the weight room? How are you not, like. I'm sure Saban had to like Inquire? Right, yeah.
I mean, like, there's no way you see that mountain of a guy and don't think, like, no, maybe you should play football. Right. I mean, when I saw Alabama, when I see the Alabama logo, all I can think about is football. Exactly. But.
There's something we're we're forgetting, 'cause we talked about episode one of Raw. We didn't talk about episode two. Talk about two. I mean, there's there's There's kind of a there's kind of no fear when it comes to talking about episode two. Yeah, Penta, dude.
Penta made his debut. Yeah. The worst kept secret. Worst kept secret. Look, Raw on.
In LA, they flash Pentas. Logo up on the screen. During a commercial break, and I'm like going nuts, and then it just went away. And I was like, Did anybody else see this? And they didn't even acknowledge it or mention it.
So, you know, this week we got our Penta debut. And they put him in the ring with just the perfect foil, Chad Gable. Yeah. And You want to talk about a star-making turn? That is how you present a star.
That's how you make a star. Penta came out, you know, he had that little La Parka walk. You know, the music was so swaggy, he was so smooth with it. And they show a little girl, she's sitting there just. Bawling her eyes out.
And immediately I'm like, that has to be his daughter. Yeah. Because no one could be. that happy for someone unless you were really In the mix with him.
So, as you saw at the end of the match, he went down. Hug and kiss all of them.
So that was definitely his daughter. But man, presentation-wise, the man had the look, the mask, the outfit. Just the walk, everything that went into it, even before the match started, and then the bell rang. Yeah. And we got a good one.
Yeah, and you can tell, you could tell his excitement. You could tell how uh Big the moment felt for him. Um. And I think the more that we see him learning the, as they say, the WWE style. The WWE style.
Um the dude the dude's got the full package. I mean He look the look is there. You know, the merch sells itself. When you're a superstar in the WWE. You want to have that look, and he's just cool as hell.
And, you know, I'm very excited. The mask with the paint underneath the mask. Yeah. And, you know, when, when. AEW first started.
That was one of the guys that I openly on Twitter was like, that dude is sick. And for WWE to get him, you know, it's an amazing opportunity for him and his family. Um, But we we came in front, like. I will say this: the Young Bucks against the Lucha Brothers, there was a tag team match they had in AEW that I will say some people say it's the greatest tag team match of all time. I can't say that because there's been so many, but again, it's a match.
Seek it out. Watch it. It is truly fantastic. Was that the letter match? It was the steel cage match for the tag team belts.
He and his brother put on an amazing match with the Young Bucks.
So I just definitely want to shout that out for people who are unfamiliar with Penta because now he's got millions of new fans and they're going to be looking for Penta matches.
So definitely seek that one out and then go to Lucha Underground. And you'll see him against some current WWE style. I cannot wait for him to go across variety. Yeah. No, just at least a nod.
At least a nod. But he and Gable did it. Chad wrestled. A style that was I guess helping Penta kind of get his feet underneath him. Yeah.
You know, and The fact is the crowd was into it. They responded, the man Look like a star. He walked like a star. At the end of the match, he talked like a star. Yeah.
And he just, that promo after. He was so Happy. Yeah. You could feel it, you could feel it through the television.
So, you know, we um we were already fans before. Obviously, we you have to recognize what uh type of opportunity this means for him to be able to wrestle in front of the millions. And millions of WWE fans out there.
So much power to you, Penta. And here's the other thing, too, O'Shea.
Now, I know we've gotten a babyface Penta, obviously, and it's going to sell the masks, it's going to sell the merch and do all that. But at a point, We're going to get a hill penta, I'm sure. And I'm going to be honest with you: Lucha Underground, Penta L0, he scared me. Like, it'll get scared. Hill Penta, when it comes, and like, it's going to be a while because you know, he's going to be a face for a while.
But when that hill turn does come and he goes a little bit darker, man, that's going to be a whole nother something else, right? We know who it's got to be against. Right. It's got to be against Ray, but here's another match I'm looking forward to. I wanna see the demon against Penta.
Oh, Finn Balor Demon against Penta. I want to see AJ Styles against Penta. I want to see Ray against Penta. You know, I want to see Dragonoff against Penta when he's healthy. You know, there's just so many good matches.
You know, Dragon Lee and Penta, they're going to put on the banger. And You know, there's just so many ways they could go with this guy.
So, big ups, like you said, props to him. Congratulations. And just, I hope that. You know He didn't just get put in the spotlight one week and then kind of put on the shelf later. The guy's a star, okay?
Like Enzo Amori says, he takes meteor showers. He's a star.
So I hope that they treat him as such and just, you know, ride the wave of this, this, this penta. you know Phenomenon is happening right now. That was stuck for a word, bro. I got you, bro. I got you, man.
That's what I'm saying. The tag it now. Because you know, speaking of phenomenon, I just want to remind the haters that I got the number one movie in the country, baby. You should go see it. Tuck your issue.
You should take your measly ass to go see Didn't Thieves 2 Pantera. That's only to the haters. To the fans, I love y'all. But to you haters, man, make sure you get your miserable ass to the theaters.
Well, the haters ain't watching us, man.
So let's talk to the fans. Oh, no, I know they watching, bro. Because they're looking for us to mess up. They're looking for clips to hate on me on Twitter.
So take your hating ass to the theaters and go see Dennet Thieves 2 Pantera. It's the new sheriff in town. And basically what all that means is Then if there's three. You're chill, chill, bro. I'm just saying, like, I don't care if it's a cab driver.
I don't care if it's a barista. I don't care if it's man number three walking across the street. I don't care if it's a Foot Locker employee. I see where you're going there. I see where you're going now.
If he's an Amazon UPS driver, it don't matter. But I'm expecting for the third part that maybe, you know, I can add on to my resume after Just Married because I haven't really been into anything since then. Then Thieves Pantera. I guess it wouldn't be Pantera. It'd just be Den of Thieves 3.
Yeah, Den of Thieves 3. Den of Threes, if you will. Oh, see. You just did. You just did it.
Chill, chill, chill, chill, chill. Another number one movie in the country. Anyway, we got an amazing show for y'all. No doubt. Our.
NXT champion. Mine, yours, our NXT champion, Obafemi will be joining the No Contest Wrestling podcast. We're going to talk about his journey, you know, how he got to be the ruler. But yeah, man, it's just one of those things where it's like. Look at us, man.
Look at us. Look at us. And also, this is the way you've been doing press, and I've noticed you've been, you know, dropped. I watched Sway the other day, and you not only did you mention the podcast, you mentioned me. And I'm like, my name got mentioned on Sway.
Come on, dog. This is Heather B. All Blocks Down. I watched her on Real World, dog. That's Heather B.
All Glocks down and Sway, how Sway? Yeah, so you and just the job you've been doing promoting the movie and promoting the podcast, big ups to you, and I appreciate that, man. But, like, I don't see any reason why we should make the ruler wait anymore. Absolutely not. I mean, I'm not going to do that.
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As promised. Your mine hour. NXT champion. Mr. Oberfemi, welcome to the room.
Good to see you, man. Congratulations. Congratulations. How does it feel that first night? With the belt, you know, going home, laying your head on the pillow, knowing you're the champion of the world.
So It was almost one of those moments that almost passed me by. Because I've been so used to winning these days. You know, when you go on a run and you just have accomplishment after accomplishment, the accomplishments start to bleed together and you don't look at them the same. I had to stop myself in my tracks at that moment. And while the confetti was falling and the effects were, the pyro was going and whatever, I had to be like, this is my moment.
So let me soak it in and enjoy it. Yeah, man, that's super important. You know, there's so many times where we don't take the time, TJ, to. To smell the roses, you know, and when you have as much success as you've had in your short period of time in NXT, I understand where you're coming from. What was the talk to me a little bit about the road to get.
Into NXT, were you a wrestling fan? Was this something that kind of just, you know, became your path and and you just making it work.
So I was a wrestling fan growing up, but I didn't have any like aspirations to become a wrestler. Like, you know, when I grow up, I'm going to wrestle. No, I was doing track and field at the time, and this was my I believe it was my junior year. And uh as that was rounding up, I received a DM from WWE recruits, and they were like, How would you like to come to Vegas for a tryout? And we'll fly you out, and we'll give you this big opportunity.
And of course, I thought it was fake, as most, actually, most of the people at DC who work here when they got that DM, we all thought it was fake. And then, of course, after doing some more research and on the person who DM'd me and And you know, the system and seeing the page was verified and all that. And I was like, oh, okay, we have something here.
So it was very much adopted. career path, but like I'm happy to be on this path right now. All right, well and let's talk about that. You went to Alabama. Where you were on the track and field team, you were a shot putter.
I've got to ask, man, was Nick Sabin not banging down your dorm room? Door, did did the football coach uh of the the the the greatest football coach of all time, he had to have known you were on campus. Did he ever approach you? The six four monster. Right.
Did he ever approach you about uh playing football? Not personally, but he definitely had his eye on me for sure. Him and all the strength coaches, especially like when we got to the end of the year, we started doing tests for like to find out our maxes. And like, I'm throwing several pounds on the squat and all that.
So, like, what got around, like, you know, we have this freaking animal here.
So, uh, It came down to an issue where, because I hadn't played before, because I'm from Nigeria, we don't play football. You can't give a full ride to someone who's never played in a top-tier school like Alabama. Let's just put it that way. Yeah. Yeah.
So, okay.
Now, I know the football side of Alabama, so I know it's gotta bleed off into the other sports there. Give me, how do you feel about Auburn? I mean, she football is one of those things that is very, it's very cultural. And I I think most things are. You know, you go certain places like in Europe, uh, soccer is the big thing.
Uh, but that's because it's it's cultural.
So because I didn't grow up watching football. Yeah. I don't have any, I don't have that like animosity, you know, because I went to Burma, we our rival is Auburn, and yeah. Uh, like if we when we play, I'm for Alabama all the way, but like The ruler doesn't care. I'm not saying like that.
The ruler doesn't care. Like, if they win, I'll be like, oh, you know, we lost. But. I'm not crying myself to sleep that night. Yeah, I feel you as well.
Being from LA, You know, before I went to USC, okay.
So. Before I I even enrolled, I didn't have any ill will for UCLA, like at all. I love all things, LA. Yeah, except for the Clippers, because they're terrible. But as soon as I got to SC.
Bro, UCLA could go to hell, dude. I mean, everything. No, I don't give a damn what it is. You know, when it was rivalry week, we used to tie UCLA Bruins to bikes, to cars, and just drag them through the streets.
So I feel you because I don't have necessarily that animosity, but when it's game time, 100%. Oba, I'm going to take you back a little bit to when Oba was little. I know this had to be a long time ago, but growing up in Nigeria, bro, tell us what I was saying. I'm twenty-six. Let's let's not I don't think he was ever little I'm saying little in the sense of what you're six six three ten so you being a little a little old but that was you know you have to think way back for that.
So like what was life like growing up? in Nigeria for you.
Well, apparently, looking back at it now, I guess it was hard. Uh but you know, in the moments while while you're in it, you it's just life. That's why when when people start telling their their tragedy story, you know, their origin stories, and you know, they cry about it. I'm just like. It should have been normal, but okay.
That's that it was in a loving family. My father was very strict, but he was still affectionate in his ways. My mom was also strict, but she was more affectionate than my father.
So I grew up with a good bond with my parents. Me and my dad didn't get along all the time, but when we did, we did. Um I grew up in this place called Ketsu. Yeah. Interesting end of Omos.
I don't know if you've heard of Omos, the giant. That was a question we were going to have from you later.
Well, he's from that exact area. He grew up there, and which I mean, he obviously grew up there before me because he's a lot he's quite a bit older than I am, but. I'm from there. I grew up there and uh My childhood was fun. It w it was hard looking back at it now, but at that time I I had I was having a blast.
Now during that time y you say you were a wrestling fan. What were some of the uh The superstars that you enjoyed watching when you could watch them. When I could watch it at the time, uh It was Undertaker. Yeah. Plesna.
Triple H was definitely my favorite, hands down. And I'm not just saying it because he's my boss. It can't hurt, though. It can't hurt. It can't hurt.
I like the movie. And CM Punk. Uh was interesting but because uh The past two years, like CM Punk recently just joined WWE again. like a year ago I want to say And for a while, we weren't allowed to talk about him.
So, a lot of people ask me, who are your favorites? And I would want to say CM Pong. It's great that now I can't, I can't say his name again.
So, yeah, CM Punk was, you know, he was up there. As a matter of fact, I watched wrestling the most when he was on his historic title reign. It was like 430-something days of him being champion. And that was basically my childhood.
So, a lot of those matches and his celebrations and his promos are just burned into my memory. And I'm sure Phil doesn't even really know, but yeah, Phil was my childhood.
So, those guys were my guys when I was growing up. Yeah, Phil is our first guest. Yeah, we owe him this pause. We owe a lot to him, man. That is our guy, you know.
And it seems, Oba, that he's now that he's back, he's spending a lot of time down in NXT, trying to just share information and the wealth of knowledge. Have you been able to kind of, you know, just post up with him and and pick his brain a little bit? Yes, yes, I have been able to. He gave me feedback on my match with Wesley. He gave me feedback on my match with Axiom.
I remember him being present for those two. Yeah, he's been at so many more shows, but those were the ones I remember going to talk to him after my match. And it's always good to have someone who is currently active. Tell you things because they're in with the times. They're here experiencing the change in the winds and all that with you.
It it's kind of interesting when, you know, the older guys tell you stuff It's always good advice, but like you can never forget that was their time, and most of the stuff they would tell you would be based on what they know. But you know, we're in a different, very different time now. The old timers will tell you, you know, K Fabe, you protect the business, love the business, die for the business and all that. And it's still the same way, but now we're at the point where, you know, we pull the cutting back a little bit. We let the fans in on you know what we do and you know who we are outside of when we're just on T V.
So CM Punk, long story short, CM Punk is, you know, he's a very useful tool. He's honestly a huge resource. And I hope the other NXT superstars see it the same way. And it's amazing to have him here at the PC. Oh, no, but now we know you you were in track and field in Alabama.
You were also at Middle Tennessee State. World time if if I'm not mistaken. But how did you get into the shot put growing up in Nigeria? Is that something that's big over over there? Was it something that you picked up when you got here?
So yes, just like I said earlier, soccer in other regions is like this sport. Track and field happens to be one of our sports. We actually call it athletics, but you know, America does what it does and it has to be different in every way.
So track and field, I guess. But yes, I did track and field in high school and I got spotted by one of the national coaches and he recruited me. He talked to my dad at the time. He was like, your son, he could be something special if he actually buckles down and trains and does all the right things and takes all the right steps. My dad was like, you know.
This coach peaked, he has a peaked interest in you.
So, you know, do you want to do it? And I was like, Yeah, I definitely want to do it. I think at the time I was going through this transitional phase where. I used to be into art. But I was you know kind of losing my passion for art at the time So I didn't really you know I didn't really have anything else going other than you know school.
So I was like, you know what? Let's do this. This is different. It could be what I need. And look at me today.
I'm thankful to track and field and everyone who supported me in that journey. Without it, I wouldn't be where I am today. You know, there's history and shot put. It makes sense why he just Recklessly throws people in the air so easily. That's insanity.
I, um,. Obviously, we both are fans of what you've been doing in AXT, but you mentioned Axiom, you mentioned Wesley. And all I could think about is how loud those chops are. When you hit them in the chest or in the back, so I need to know. Man to man, when, who was the wrestler, the superstar, when you really felt like, man, I slapped the hell out of him right there.
Oh, man, there have been so many good ones.
So many good slaps. Right off the cuff, the slap with Wesley was really good. The one with Joe Gacy was really, really good. I'm loving going through. Memory rain, you know.
But the inception of the slap, how it actually started, was I've always done the overhand slaps to the chest, but I never did it. to someone standing on the apron. And that was actually Fit Finlay's idea. Uh if it was like, you know, you ever uh You ever try hitting it on him on the apron? And I was like, No.
Well, we'll do it tonight, you know. We got a huge reaction and uh. And you always learn to stick with the things that get reactions. Yeah. With it ever since.
You know, just real quick, speaking of reactions, I just heard you do that family impression. The impression you did last night when you were cutting your promo. Can you just, you know, can you give us a no-contest wrestling podcast exclusive? Can you just give us this voice again? Because you pop the crowd big time when you and it wasn't even like let me let me.
Let me set the record straight. I know people, some people online are like, oh, the accent's fake, and da-da-da-da-da. I did grow up 19 years in Nigeria. And I don't think people fully understand that. Like, that is, like, this is my accent.
Like, this is, yes, it's like. It's played up on T V for sure, but like, this is how I talk. But I can also court switch because I've been in the States for like seven years. That's right. That's my voice.
But if I go to the store and I'm like, hey, Meg, you put the thing in the bag and I can I can do both. People think, oh, one is real, one is like, no, like both are me, but you know, I just have the ability to code switch. And I. You know, I was like, I was like, let me give them something to talk about today. And then I did the code switch and.
Because I'm truly not one of those guys who will come out and be like, I've wanted this ever since day one. No. Yeah, I've always believed I could be in this position.
So I just give them something to talk about. Bro, the timing of it, just like you, you. Bro, it was excellent. The timing, just the execution. Yeah, like it was just so golden that, like, that's why we have so much faith in you to be an entertainer, a superstar, and everything in between, dude.
That I haven't laughed that hard in a long time for wrestling. I immediately hit the rewind button. I was like, I gotta hear this. Yeah, bro. But it was the message.
It was, it was, you know, there was humor, but it was something to be said. Like, yeah, I never doubted myself. I always knew. That I would be here. And that's pretty powerful.
And he's the ruler, bro. And now when. You've had a career of this dominance. And just like the, you're so, like, it's so easily. I'm not gonna downplay what he's been doing because obviously it's hard work.
What do you see as a challenge, or who is somebody that you want to get in the square circle with, to put on a master class with? Mm masterclass. You know us I have my my go-to answers. Good uh John Cena. Gulter would be so good.
That's, you know, that's when we go upstairs. Yeah. But while we're here, um, I could always do it again with trick. Mm. Could always do it back with Tony because, I mean, realistically, from a real life booking perspective, let's say if this was the UFC, the one guy that I've lost to would be the one guy to challenge me.
Actually, it would be the first guy in line to challenge me as I'm, you know, as I become the newly crowned champion, and that's Tony D.
So I wouldn't mind doing that again. And I I have no doubt that any of those would would be a good match. Like I I knew all those would be bangers, yes. But sometimes those questions are iffy because a lot of the guys that you can put on bangers with are guys who are not in the position. Yeah.
To to do that. But in the meantime, for lack of a better response, those names that I just mentioned would be the go-to.
Now, Besides, obviously, you know, the standard match, is there any special match like a. Cage, Hell in a Cell, Elimination Chamber, like those magics that you are looking forward to in your career. Definitely. Definitely, I've always hated steel cage matches, and I'll just just want to throw that out there. I think it's like hell in itself, but like great value.
Like, nobody wants to see that. It's a great catch. Love the Hell in a Cell match. It's always interesting, especially when you climb up. There's just so many things to play with in that cell.
You know, let's get with the times. The Royal Rumble is another, you know, really big fun. Uh looking forward to doing that someday. Uh What else? I love multi-man matches because there's just so many men you can throw around.
Why throw around one man when you can throw around two or three? You know, it's just a giant. What a giant way of thinking. Uh what other matches did it call to me? I'm not I like watching lot of matches.
You gotta be a fan of the Iron Survivors type format. You know what? When Sean invented that match, he was cooking. He was. He was on fire, so yes.
Iron, I can't believe I didn't even say that one. Iron Survivor is up there for me because I love everything about it. You know, it's a it's time-sensitive, there's urgency, you know, there's there's uh. You have to score the most points. It's just everything about it just works.
And it's honestly one of my favorite matches to watch and participate in as well.
Now back in 21, you know, you were part of the the WWE's NIL Next in Line program. Like you said, you got that email and you realized it was legitimate.
So just tell me this, man. What was it like the first few times you stepped into a wrestling ring and had to take a bump? And How long before you question like is this something i really want to do Um For me, I commit.
So, if tomorrow I said I wanted to go and sell, you know. Cars or something, I would commit to it.
So that's just the kind of person I am.
So once I got hired, I was just like, oh, I'm all in. Like, no matter what. Like, even if it required me to, you know, take a hammer to the head every day, that's that's what I would do because I'm committed like that. As far as the bumps and how they were when I first started, they were they were. Definitely awkward to do.
It's your body naturally does everything in its power to protect itself. And then for you to willingly Put your own body in danger. It's just the biggest contradiction your brain can't comprehend. That's what taking my first bump was like.
Now I need to know when was a time. Where you either took a bump or took a hit where you were like, okay. That was by Welcome to Wrestling Moment. Ooh. Uh I took a bump on the apron.
Josh Briggs, he gave me a belly-to-back suplex on the apron. And I think. Yeah, that that that That probably concosts me. Uh dude, um Yeah. Nothing else really stands out as like, oh, wow, regret, except that one, the belly back on the apron, it got me.
It's never the things that you would expect. You would think when you fall off the, you know, off the ladder or go through the table or get hit with the chair. Like, those aren't the things that actually.
Sometimes it's.
Sometimes you mess around and climb up the steps wrong, and you're done, you know? I've had times like during my entrance, you know, I go to get in the ring and I, you know, bend a little bend down a little too fast to go through the ropes. I'm like, whoa, you know, it's never the cool things, never. It's funny you say that, Over, because I was watching that interview with Kevin Owens, and he was talking about a time that he was in a cage match with Shane McMahon. And he said one of the most painful things he ever felt was Shane giving him little punches in his kidney while he was hanging on.
The side of the cage, and he was like, Please stop hitting me. He goes, You can literally see me stay to him. He goes, They hurt so bad. He goes, And it didn't look like it, but it was killing him.
So, yeah, like I can see that little things, the little details, the details, right? Mm-hmm. But you know, also We spoke about Omos, who went over to Noah. You know, just working on his craft. Hopefully he comes back a bigger star than when he left.
He's a big man, a giant in wrestling. You're a big man.
So when you're down in NXT, who is. down there working with you to teach you how to work like a big man should. It's Ivar.
So I've offered for the past um Almost two years now actually, because he's been he's been coming down for a while. He he uh he hosts hosts. He handles this uh a big man class where he we he we have um me, we have OTM, we have uh hunk and tank, and we have some other you know names that are not quite on T V yet, so I don't wanna throw them out there. Uh Uh Just by Troy? Yeah.
Yeah, it But the world that hasn't seen him yet, I think when Jasper comes out, it's going to be something special for sure, because you think Oba Femi is big. Wait till you see Jasper. But yeah, Iva has been teaching us for the past almost two years this big man class, teaching us big man psychology, because there's a way, there's a specific way you work when you are. Know my size. I think once you're a certain build, once you're like six foot and above, and you have a certain level of like, you know, thickness to your frame and your physique, you automatically qualify as a big man.
There's no debate about it, especially in NXT, where we have, you know, a lot of high flyers. Will more than likely be bigger than most of the rosters, so you have to work that style.
So, shout out to Ivar for you know coming down and you know. teaching us and finding time in his busy schedule to to show us the way. And that's really that makes me big up Ivar right now. Yeah, because I saw an interview with him also where he did mention that he does go down there. He likes to help the kids.
I say kids, you know, the young wrestlers down there. And he's hoping to maybe become a producer or coach for the next team when it's all said and done. Right now, you know, they're killing it as the tag team champs up there on to know that he tag team champion is still finding time to do that. Big ups to Ivar. I got a riddle for you.
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Now, there's something that a couple of traditions that we have here at the No Contest Wrestling Podcast. Knowing that you are a wrestling fan. Turned superstar. I need to know. When was the first time?
As a fan. That you can remember. Where wrestling broke your heart. Me personally, I think of the times where. Chris Jericho beat Stone Cole and The Rocks same night.
I was like, this shouldn't happen this way. Or when Hulk Kogan ran over The Rocks ambulance when the NWO came over.
So, when was the first time that you could remember where you watched wrestling and it just broke your heart? I I can think of the good moments, but I can't for whatever reason, I can't seem to recollect any of the bad, like, oh my. I think it's mostly because I've always been in on, you know, The whole thing. I've always known what wrestling is.
So when they have sad moments, I can I'll be like, oh, wow, that that worked. Like, you know, whatever they built, whatever they were building to, like, the payoff was really good. Like, oh, like, I really do feel bad for Brian. But it was never like, oh, I really feel bad for him. It's more like, oh, Wow, that got him some sympathy.
Great. Uh I guess I guess you could say when, when Mark Henry beat Randy Otten for the World Championship. I. I guess that it just came across as like. You know, on it came out as very physical.
Yeah. You know, there's some of these moments where something is so physical that you're like, oh, wow. Oh, wow. I was expecting more of a 50-50 kind of match, but it was kind of leaning towards Mark the entire match, and then he just dominant, dude. He's dominant.
And I was like, what did I just watch? Like, what was that? Like, what is this? And They got me there.
So I would say when Mark Henry beat Randy Otton for the world, he said. No, that's going to be him.
So was that something that broke your heart? Because you said you didn't really get broken heart. Was that just something that shocked you? It shocked me and broke my heart at the same time. You understand that you are going to be that moment for some kid somewhere.
You are so dominant, dude.
Some kid somewhere is going to be just cheering for the other guy with all of his heart. It's like, yeah, Oba came out and just destroyed the hell out of that guy. Yeah, but I mean, that's what we do. Those are the movements. And I live for stuff like that.
You know, when Tony D. won the North American title from me. Was such a satisfying feeling on the inside. Not just because I know how hard Tony works on, you know, blase blase, but because the story we told. came across exactly the way we wanted.
I remember initially when we started the feud and we had the first match and people realized we were going to go into a second one and possibly a third one.
So people were like, no, I don't want to see Oba lose to Tony. I don't want to you know, I don't think Tony Oba Fermi, Oba Fermi. But when we did everything right and, you know, the big giant finally, you know, comes falling down. There's no more satisfying feeling for the fans, and even me too. Like, that's the point of all the victories that I get.
I strongly believe that. The point of all this dominance is to eventually lose to someone when it matters the most and do something for them too. Elevator. Elevate them. Yeah, in the in the in.
in every sense so I I love playing the bad guy. I love being the one that breaks people's hearts constantly, constantly, and constantly until we get like a WrestleMania 40 with, you know, Cody Rhodes coming on top. You know, that wouldn't have the same level of gravity if, you know, Roman dropped the belt at, you know. Yeah, yeah.
So I love this role. That's what I'll say. N number one. Let let me just say. What you just said right there Is Such an amazing as a fan hearing you say that, knowing at the age that you are, that you have that mindset.
of putting the business first. Dude, you Just with that answer alone, you've made me such a bigger fan. Right there, 'cause you get it, dude. And you don't you don't understand how how great people are going to respond to just hearing you say that right there.
So I just want to give big ups to you for that answer. And number two, Cody shouldn't have won at WrestleMania 40. I don't care, bro. I'm a Roman Reigns fan.
So, but back in 23, you won the NXT men's breakout tournament. and which led to you getting a championship match for your first ever title, which was the NXT North American. Championship. What did that feel like? Because you weren't even in the business a solid two years, right?
And you already got the second most prestigious title in NXT. What was that feeling like? And the record. And the record, right? Whoa, man.
Uh I'm trying to I'm trying to put myself back into my shoes when I was there that day. Uh when I won it I didn't quite I didn't quite understand how much responsibility that came with at the time. Because my mindset was just, okay, title is on me now. I'm going to go out there. I'm going to do my best.
Uh and I and I think uh That might have helped a little bit if I'm being honest. Because sometimes, when you know how much pressure is actually on, that's when you fold. But if you just do what brought you to the dance in the first place, you dance and you saw and you, you know, you. You break records and you do all these amazing things that you never thought you would do.
So I didn't I didn't know how much Pressure that was. I didn't know. you know, I I wasn't thinking about the expectations. I was just doing my best and, you know, being me and being dominant and taking Sean's vision and and you know, conveying it to the crowd and telling the world and making it the best I could possibly make it.
Well, you spoke of Sean, um, depending on what day you ask me. Who is my favorite wrestler of all time? It's usually going to be the answer is going to be Shawn Michaels or Ric Flair. What is it like for you to be able to? You know, we talked about learning from CM Punk, but Sean's down there, he's running things like.
What's it like for you to be able to learn from a man who many consider to be the greatest of all time, Shawn Michaels? It's very reassuring. You know, everybody tends to question authority. Everybody tends, at some point, you ask, why is this person telling me what to do? Like if it it's like having a fitness trainer who is not in shape, you know.
Why are you telling me this? And that's what I'm saying. Sean has done every single thing this This company has Possibly come up with. He's done every type of match. He invented the Iron Survivor.
And so it's very reassuring when he tells you things. You just know, you know, he's right. It's coming from the right place.
Sometimes I don't even need to ask.
Sometimes I'm like, I'll be like, yeah, I'll do this sequence. I'll do it the way he says it. And let me see. And every time, without fail, I'm like, huh.
Well, what do you know?
So, having Sean as the boss is very, very reassuring. And one other thing, because there's another big man down there that I know he has a lot to do with NXT, and that's Matt Bloom.
Now, Matt Bloom's a guy who. He's from Pittsburgh. I'm from Pittsburgh. I can remember when Matt Bloom was in college, and he used to be the doorman at a bar called C.J. Barney's.
You can ask him about that. And there was a guy named Reuben Brown who used to play for the Buffalo Bills and the Bears. And they both were offensive linemen. And I can remember Oba back in the day, you know, you go to a college bar and all the guys thought they were tough guys. And then Ruben Brown and Matt Bloom would come walking into the bar and all of a sudden, all the tough guys.
I promise you, they weren't so tough anymore when that boom came around.
So, you know, and I hadn't seen him for years. And then one day I'm watching a documentary about WWE, and I see him. looking completely different. I was like, wait a second. That's my man from Pitt.
So, what have you learned? What is Matt Bloom? Because he had a successful career as a big man. Has he helped you out? Has he.
Like just giving you some some, you know, some tidbits of knowledge. I would even say uh Coach Bloom has, you know, has been more hands-on than Ivor because Ivor comes once a week and sometimes once every other week, depending on how stressful travel is. But yeah, he's my direct pipeline to all the big man knowledge. He's told me. I I I want to say like Seventy five percent of everything I know as a big man has come from Coach Bloom.
So shout out to Coach Bloom. He definitely loves his big men. Because there's there's Sometimes the perception is that big men can't walk, you know, they're slow, they're this, they are that. I would say Coach Bloom, he's very big on changing that narrative and so am I.
So he's he's currently cooking right now with a bunch of big men. We're all in the woodw they're all in the woodworks. I mean, I obviously have come out, but like Coach Bloom is cooking and he has a lot of knowledge from WWE and Japan.
So I'm also very lucky to have him as a coach. Yeah, ask him about those days at CJ Barney's down in the Oakland section of Pittsburgh. That's a bar? That's a bar, yep. A question that we usually have around here on the no contest wrestling podcast over.
We'd like to put together a situation, if you will, you know, a fantasy situation where. You're at a bar, okay? There's about 50 dudes. That's the number we usually go with. It might be exaggerated, but 50 dudes in a bar, okay?
They. Don't want you in there, they don't think you're the ruler, yeah, exactly so. I need you. Yeah, you're insane, bro. I need you.
To pick a team. A barfight crew. A bar, yeah, a barfight crew. That's how we have Regglers. Four wrestlers.
To team up with you to make sure you make it out of that bar.
So, you plus four other guys from NXT where you know. You're gonna make it out of there, no problem. From NXT?
Well, I should we live it live in it? Living. I mean, NXT? Maybe, maybe upstairs, as you said it. Yeah, just four cats that you know you're gonna feel safe that you're gonna get to the to the whip.
Oh wow. And can I tell you, we had trick on a few weeks ago. You were his first pick. No, trick is in there for sure. Trick is in there.
I'm just trying to think about all that. I'll say Tony D'Angelo as well. I knew that was coming. That's what he said as well. Uh Josh Briggs.
Oh, okay. Uh Need one more. Oh wow, why am I doing this? You know, we have Evander Holyfield's son here. Yeah.
Yeah. Him. Is his name? Is it Jordan Holyfield? Oh man, I forget.
But we I forget what his working name is. Right, right, right, right, right. All right, so that's the Vander Sun U. Trick Briggs, and we need one more. Yeah, yeah.
Who's the other one you said? Tony D'Angelo. Oh, the Don. That's right. The Dawn.
That was it. I need to see I need to see Lil Holyfield, bro. Them hands? Oh, man. Them hands?
Right. You got to see that. Absolutely, dude. He has that tight end build.
So Just freakish. You need to see him for sure. Elijah is his real name, but I don't know what it is. I don't know if they're giving him, you know, a working name or not. Bro, we're getting inside scoops here at NCW, bro.
Shout out to Elijah, bro.
So, yeah, that's a question that it's been pretty standard with Azoba, and people love. this bar fight question and we always get hundreds of replies every time. And your name has popped up on more than one occasion. Let's just let you know that.
Well, let me ask you this, Oba. Are you familiar with the movie Back to the Future? Yes, I am, but vaguely.
Okay, so I don't know if you know this, but Doc Brown. He finally got the DeLorean up and running.
So now we got a time machine, right? The time machine is working. I don't know if you knew this. This just happened a few minutes ago.
So, where are we going? Oh, Buffemi, Doc Brown's going to come pick you up, right? You guys are going to get in the DeLorean. You're going to hit 88. You're going to travel in time.
And you are going to pick five wrestlers. From the past. that you think you could have a WrestleMania type main event with. Who are the five wrestlers that you would like to go back in time and test your skill? Test the Rula's skill against?
From any era. Any era. Any era. So we got the time machine over. We can do anything we want, baby.
I'll pick all the top guys from every single era then. I'll I'll pick Hogan and I'll pick uh Control, I mean. Say what you want about that pick, but like that's what's going to draw the most money if we're talking about the 90s and the 80s. We had a lot to say about Raw and from LA and Netflix last week, where we said what we had to say. I'm swimming over.
So it makes money. They say if it don't make dollars, it don't make sense. This makes dollars, so it makes sense. This makes dollars, so it makes all the sense to me. Definitely Sean Michaels.
Okay. You can't go wrong with the big man, small man, like the big man high flyer matches. They just make all like everyone loves David versus Goliath. Exactly. Reason for that.
So Sean Michaels. And how many do I have to pick? Three more. I'll say Triple H as well because I just want to see how that brain works. Cerebral assassin, how it worked when he was fully active in it.
Uh so Who else would I do?
So we got uh Hogan HBK Triple H. Man, this is this is actually a tough question. If I was, you know, if I was any earlier than that, I would say Bruno, you know, Bruno San Martino. I'm glad you mentioned that because, you know, we like to kind of consider ourselves historians. And I feel like a lot people don't really understand or really talk about how great.
Bruno was. Yeah. And one more, right? Yes, sir. John Cena.
Dun dun dun dun. Yes, the invisible man. All right, so Buffemi, if we could take you back on the DeLorean to pick five main events for WrestleMania, we'd have Hogan, HBK, Triple H. Bruno and John Cena. It's not bad.
Not bad at all. It's not bad. I'm speaking as a, you know, I'm a. I am the show's bloodline representative. You would have put on a great batch with the tribal chief, man.
I would have been nervous. I would have been nervous if I heard them drums. I could only imagine hearing those drums in the Royal Rumble. Oh, bro, that as well.
So, real nice, TJ. That's why I love you, TJ. By the way, we're going to see the ruler in the tribal chief at some point. It's going to happen. Bro, relax on my tribal chief, bro.
I'm trying to say that. You're going to put the ruler on my tribal chief? Look, man, this is a good thing. We didn't talk about that. But so.
We see the crowd when it comes to trick with the whoop that trick, you know, the NXT crowd really kind of took on a mind of its own. With you, your own version of the what chant with the grunts, you know, for the ruler. Tell me how it felt the first time you heard the crowd take on a mind of its own while you're giving a promo. Or even coming to the ring. Yeah.
This is when the bro starts, you know, so hard. It's it's it's a very good feeling knowing that you because you If you're a good performer, you'll know when you when you have them. When you do something and you hear, you're like, oh, wow, we're good.
So the first time I heard it, I was like, wow, okay, they just made my job 10,000 times easier.
So. Now, not only do I have to talk, you know, accordingly, now I have a cadence to, you know, to go to.
So after every sentence, ooh. And it's just it flows, it's the best thing ever. Shout out to whoever invented the who. Oh, but there was a guy on, I think I watched a TikTok video who swears he was the first one in the crowd who started doing the who for you.
So I don't know. This guy wants to take credit for it. What do you want, a shirt? He made it seem like he was the first one to start doing it. If he said it, I mean.
If anyone else has proof, I mean, if he's the one really saying it, then I have no doubts in my mind that. I think I've seen the video as well. And there's a good chance he did. But They The crowd just needs to know they made my job easier the day they started doing that.
So, Oba, what we'd like to do is, you know, we'd like to induct every one of our guests into our no contest wrestling podcast Hall of Fame.
So, we want to welcome you into the Hall of Fame.
Now, your career is just getting started.
So, I realize you don't have a ton of matches, but. As we put you in this Hall of Fame, we have your bus, we have the ruler's bus there. We're going to play a match on a loop.
So everyone who comes to the Hall of Fame gets to see a match of Oba Femi. What one match would you say? If no one's ever seen you, It is the quintessential Oba Femi, and this is the match that you should watch so you can understand who the ruler is. Stand on the liver, Obafemi versus Josh Briggs versus Dijak, 2023 NXT matchup. Match of the year, right?
Yeah, I feel like that match should be studied in every wrestling academy. It was that match went as perfectly as you know you can think because. I feel like that match tells you who each one of the competitors are. It's us doing crazy things, us being big, powerful, and athletic. And if you really want to know what Oba Femme is all about, look no further than the tower spot when I had both men on my shoulders and we came up with his perfect match.
That was insane. And and if you haven't seen it, we always like I said we always like to put people on game. If for some reason you haven't seen it, after you watch this, hop off.
Well stay on YouTube because you're probably watching the video. Yeah, hop off. Pull up that video. Pull up that match and you're going to see. Like big E would say, big meaty men slapping meat.
Three, just very still. Let's chill. Putting it down, bro. Oba, man. It has been, dude, a pleasure, man.
Your, your intelligence, your mindfulness of the business, man. We, you got two major fans in us, dude. Much power to you. Um, we will be watching you very closely, and this will not be your last time on the no contest wrestling podcast, man. We hope not.
Much power to you, brother. I mean, the whole, I mean, the whole of femme. I mean, what are you gonna do? That means you got to kind of come back and rock with us. And one day we gotta get you in the studio.
Yeah, we definitely need you sitting in between us, man. You are definitely the. the future of the business. Man, the lights are shining so bright on you, brother. I can't even imagine where you're going to take this, but we're going to be here for the ride, man.
All the best to you. Absolutely. Thank you guys. I really appreciate you guys. Thank you guys for having me on here.
It's been a pleasure. Enjoy your day, man. You're the champ, baby. Do what you want. Thank you.
NXT champion. Ober feminine. Ober femi. There you have it, man. Older Femi.
The ruler. I called him 6'3. I mean, come on, you broke my man down. It got to be like 6'13, 6'12. You know, the dude's just huge.
All right. That's what it was. Right. You want to know your stats. That's why you're here, bro.
I guess. But. Want to thank Obafemi for his time. You know, the ruler going on his press run as the NXT champion, stopping by, and joining the Hall of Fame of the No Contest Wrestling Podcast. Yes, indeed.
What a guy. Yes, sir. Future's great. Like I said, man, the future is. Absolutely good in the and he showed he showed So much understanding.
Humility power he has. Yeah. And it's like. You hear stories about people who are in that position of being the guy on whatever show they're on and not. Getting that pushing people forward is the way to do things, Hulk Hogan.
So it's really cool to see a young man like Oba Femi understand his responsibility.
So shout out to you, dog. No doubt. We really appreciate you. TJ. It's been good to see you, bro.
It's been good to be back. Nice to have you back. Yeah, you know, I've been promoting the number one movie in the country. This is Dennis Thieves 2 Pantara. Number one movie in the country.
Number one in your hearts, baby. And uh. Denneth's one number one on streaming. That's all because of you guys, man. I truly appreciate you.
You have no idea. How grateful I am. And It's just going to make this podcast even crazier. Because if I have more number one movies in the country, they're just going to say yes to whatever guests we want.
So I appreciate you guys a lot. I'll let you, man. And to the haters. I love you for O'Shea Jackson Jr., the movie star. TJ Jefferson.
Don't forget, you can find us everywhere on Twitter, There's No Contest, on Instagram, No Contest Wrestling Podcast. And of course, you find all of our videos on the Rich Eisen Show YouTube page. I'm just a humble podcaster, bro. See you next Wednesday. Actor Michael Rosenbaum.
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