RE Show: Don Van Natta - Hour 3

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Try today. This is The Rich Eisen Show. Broncos country, let's ride. Live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles.

I've been pleased with his progress and where he's at. Final assessment from you here, Kurt Warner. Let's get it on Russell Wilson. The Rich Eisen Show.

Can Russell either take that jump to become a better pocket passer or does Sean have to adjust the system to get back to who Russell Wilson is? Earlier on the show, Steelers wide receiver, George Pickens, hosts of Bussin' with the Boys, Will Compton, and Taylor Lujan. Coming up, ESPN senior writer, Don Van Natta Jr. And now, Rich Eisen. Our number three of The Rich Eisen Show is on the air. We just keep going.

And honestly- Can't stop, won't stop. And I have a feeling, I understand, as Taylor Lujan is saying goodbye right now and in all the buzz... By the way, take your time leaving. I never thought I would have a Jewish goodbye with the Bussin' guys. And it's interesting, they're signing our helmet. Okay, very good. It's a players only helmet.

It's a players only helmet. And now I know why Taylor was asking me about my face wash and moisturizing routine. I don't know, who's the one who's got the hand cream?

Which one of you guys is doing that? Of course, it's Taylor. Actually, real quick, did either of these guys play in the Rose Bowl? Did you, Taylor, did you ever play in the Rose Bowl? Never once in the actual Rose Bowl.

Because we have Rose Bowl seats that we get players who play to the game to sign. All right, so just the helmet for you guys. There they go. All right, fellas. See you guys. Fantastic.

Be well, safe travels. What a blast. See, we are cool. We're cool. Everything's great.

Everything's great. We just need to get to Nashville. We are beefless.

Could you imagine? We're vegan. There's no beef here. Pescatarian, I got to eat some meat.

That's true. Salmon is delicious. That was fun. That was great. Don Van Natta of ESPN is joining us. We're going to class up the joint a little bit. One thing he won't be asking me about is my face wash and moisturizing routine, which for our radio audience now is what we had 90 more seconds to go on our Roku feed. And that's what Taylor asked me about.

I thought we would talk about the busing with the boys' bowl between Michigan and Nebraska. No, no. He wants to know how you stay wrinkle free.

He does. Am I? Are you wrinkle free? Look at me. By the way, yes, look at me on the Roku channel every day from noon to three Eastern.

I still can't get past that one. 1102 here on the Roku channel. And we re-air immediately.

We do. By the way, if you missed the last hour. If you missed anything.

Thanks for reminding me. If you missed anything over the first two hours. In about two hours and 20 minutes. We re-air on the Roku channel every day after our third hour is over. There's our podcast as well on the Cumulus Podcast Network. Get it where you get busing with the boys.

All three hours, every single day. You can check us out. YouTube.com slash Rich Eisen Show. George Pickens was a delight in our number one. He was. Right.

Get him in fantasy. All right. And now what are we? We have a couple of sound bites in the shoot here.

Okay. I don't feel we have carped on Trey Lance nationally. I don't think we are part of the national media that has been critical of Trey Lance.

No, we've been one of the few shows who is pro Trey Lance. We just want to see him play. We met him and we liked him and that kind of influences your opinion. All I'm doing when I sit here to talk about him is look at his predicament.

You're just being honest. And he has a predicament that he's a kid who last played consistent quarterback organized football in 2019. It's been a while.

That's a fact. They played the first game in 2020 and then the North Dakota State shut down their season. And then the 2021 draft. And then in 2021 he got injured. Well, he played a little bit.

He threw the first touchdown pass the Niner season in 2021 because the idea was he would be the guy in the red zone creating problems in the red zone. And Jimmy G would just go from 20 to 20. And then all of a sudden it's like, let's just stick with Jimmy G. And then he got the shot to start the season as any third overall pick is going to get hecker high water. He's going to start. And it was a monsoon in Chicago that day. And then week two off on a cart.

See you later. And so they got Sam Darnold and I've how many people have I asked is Sam Darnold there as Purdy insurance or Lance insurance? And the answer was he was there as Purdy insurance when he was brought in Brock Purdy was just fresh off of wing surgery. So when, when I say, you know, Hey, Brandon Allen's getting all the snaps.

Does that mean in some way, shape or form, not all the snaps, a significant, a large number of snaps. Does that mean he's somehow some way they're, they're using him as Lance insurance? I don't, you know, it's just a simple question that you're asking. And then you just see what you saw on Sunday, Darnold look way more comfortable and Lance looked a lot more shaky. And it's obvious as David Shaw pointed out on Monday show, Darnold looked like a guy who's played 55 games in the national football league and Lance looked like a guy who hasn't played a lot of organized ball since 2019.

That's the way it is. Unfortunately for him, Michael Lombardi, our friend on his pod was very basically said something along the lines that, you know, when his mom took him out of the crib, he didn't have the abilities or not, or the, the idea of how to play quarterback, or I shouldn't power. I bottom line is I'm paraphrasing him saying Lance isn't very good and it's not going to be very good in this league.

It's not going to be very good in this league. Cue the question of Kyle Shanahan on Wednesday. Coach, there's been a lot of negativity around Trey Lance in the national media recently. Yesterday, there was somebody coming out saying that Trey doesn't have the quarterback instinct.

What do you have to say about that kind of comment? It just goes with the territory. I mean, it goes with it for quarterbacks. It goes with it for anybody who's a high draft pick, but especially a quarterback. You watch, that's one of the tough things I think for that position, but also for high draft picks. I mean, you watch receivers come in the league and they have a few drops early in camp and there becomes a lot of pressure on them.

People want to see those people take off and do it right away and have no flaws and that's just part of it. Anything you've had to address with him or is he pretty good as far as the mindset knowing what comes with the territory? I mean, Trey is extremely smart, very socially aware. He knows how the world works and so he does his best, which I think he does a damn good job of trying to block that out and just focus on getting better and I think that's what he's done so far. When his mom lifted him up from the crib, he didn't have that QB instinct is what Michael Lombardi tweeted out. He won't win the backup QB spot based on what I've seen and heard. Very demonstrative and if he doesn't win the backup quarterback spot, he's going to be the third and he will be there and he will be there and I have a feeling Sam Donald's not going to play very much this year either. I believe in Brock Purdy and so does this team and I don't see unless Purdy's hurt that they're going to take him out. Do you think Brock Purdy will be removed from action this year due to ineffectiveness and the Niners need to see what they can get out of Sam Donald? Yay or nay, Chris Brockman. I say no.

Yay or nay, TJ Jefferson. Rich, I think that defense is so great that they're going to keep them in a bunch of games, so I'm going to say no. I'll say no too. I also think it has to do with the Shanahan's kind of arrogance about the... You just can't get off that. I'm not alone. I mean, I read everyone's comments. I'm not alone in thinking that.

Man, oh man. It's not arrogance. I mean, his arrogance would have been what? If he was arrogant, he would be starting Lance. That's arrogance. I saw Lance.

That's an interesting point. I drafted Lance. I traded up, and in the middle of pro days, I traded up. And not for anybody but Trey Lance, and he is going to play. I don't care how bad he looks. That's a fair retort. What if they had just drafted back Jones, like everyone thought in the first place when they traded up to number three?

Well, Bailey Zappi would be starting week one. This is not an opportunity to troll on me. No. I'm just asking a real question. I don't know. That's what I'm saying.

Bailey Zappi would be starting week one because he wouldn't be where you are. That's what I'm saying. Or maybe Tom Brady came back. To New England?

Yeah. That's an interesting what if. I mean, we're really going down the what if wormhole here. Crazier things have happened. But in all seriousness, I have no idea.

I have no idea. You did see, look man, here's the thing. They've gone on a limb though to really defend birdie and come out in a way that Bill hasn't with Mac Jones. That's Bill's way.

That's Bill's way. So yeah, he's gonna play the holes of the year no matter what. Brock Purdy is exactly what you're hoping for in the NFL. Somebody who will take care of the football.

Somebody who can be elusive in the pocket if need be. He can move. He can make the throws you want and need him to make.

And he is on a seventh round last pick in the draft contract on a team that is ready to win now and believes in him because of what he did at the end of last year. What a dream come true and that's unfortunate for Lance. If Purdy didn't happen last year, right? Wouldn't Lance be starting week one? And there'd be a battle like, will they just start Darnold over Lance because he just isn't ready to go?

Wouldn't that be the conversation right now? Would they have went and got somebody else? Would they have gotten Sam Darnold? Would they have knocked on the Vikings door for Cousins?

If Purdy didn't happen, if we're going down the if wormhole here, like boy, are we ever right now. Also what Purdy does is what Shanahan wants. He runs the offense.

He and one, two, three, step throw. What Jimmy G did not do as we saw, especially in the Super Bowl. That's what I'm saying about Lance. I am not being critical of his abilities or again, Michael Lombardi has been around football way longer than I have quarterback instinct, not being critical of that.

I'm just saying he doesn't have the opportunities and it's not happening again. Again, he didn't lose a game that he was starting and he brought George Kittle back to life. And the question is if Purdy somehow some way has to come off the field in Pittsburgh week one, who does Shanahan turn to? And I would definitely say it's going to be Sam Darnold.

A million percent. You are not going to throw some kid in the deep end of the pool in week one in Pittsburgh PA with TJ Watt there, Cam Hayward there, Patrick Peterson there, Mika Fitzpatrick there. You're not doing that to Lance in week one. You're going to bring in the kid with a lot more experience.

That's all I'm saying about that. And then just let me hit this here, man. Mac Jones. Here's what has to happen. All seriousness, all kidding aside, it is best practice today, dude.

Here's what has to happen. Whatever the hell was in his headset, in his helmet and in his meeting rooms, his rookie season, repeat, rinse and do it again and do it again and do it again, because what he did in his rookie year, he made the pro ball, was absolutely special. Special. When Trevor Lawrence was, he was the best rookie of that class in his rookie season. When Trevor Lawrence was in the middle of the Urban Meyer insanity.

It wasn't even close. And Zach Wilson was not ready. And Trey Lance didn't even get on the field. And Justin Fields, if you remember, was having Matt and Maggie try to turn him into Mahomes, sitting him out all year. Mac Jones was terrific. Mac Jones set up Nick Folk for a game winner against Tom Brady in New England. Brady's return. Mac Jones, I keep saying it. I'll keep returning to it. I saw him with my own two eyes in SoFi stadium against the Chargers on Halloween weekend, just 100% outperform Justin Herbert.

100% outperform Justin Herbert with, one would say, and I think you could agree with this, this is not a troll, a much less talented offensive weaponry at his disposal. And the Chargers. And the Chargers. Yeah. He outperformed just that game was a wrap. Susie and I left the kids, left early.

It was over. They were running like their two minute offense with seven minutes to go. And what Mac Jones was doing was sliding instead of running out of bounds to keep the clock going. He was situationally aware.

He was doing everything that he needed to do. And last year was such a debacle and not of his own doing. Speaking of arrogance, it was Bill's arrogance thinking that he could just bring in his buddies to run the offense. Bill O'Brien knows what McDaniel's was doing. He knows exactly what was working for Mac Jones in his first season. And I'm sure bringing his own flavor of coaching and scheming to the table. He's been in this building before on that sideline before with with Mac's predecessor.

And his success with Mac's predecessor got him to Penn State, which got him to Houston, which got him to Alabama and back to the New England sideline. I mean, I think it's still in there with that kid. I think so too. I think it's absolutely still in there with that kid.

Just bring it back out. Take last year, throw it in the trash bin of history. Yeah. And by all accounts, you know, the reports you see, the guys that cover the team, it's night and day. O'Brien has come in and really established Mac Jones has been great, had his best day today against Green Bay.

And it is a joint practice. And I've mentioned it many times in relation to San Francisco and our first hour guest, George Pickens, they're playing each other week one. It's getting time to start talking about stuff like that. New England hosting Philadelphia week one.

Oh, not a great start for your boys. The quick game best not suck that day with Jalen Carter looking the way he's looking and the rest of that front seven being what they are and the rest of that team, no doubt trying to wipe the bad taste of the Super Bowl lost out of their mouths and just wipe their feet on the welcome mat in Gillette and walk out of there feeling great again. What a week one that is. Belichick v. Hurts. Monster. Mac Jones v. Name a Georgia Bulldog on that defense.

All of them. Oh, I forget. Nolan Smith. They got him too. Mccoby Dean. Yeah, Mccoby Dean. Son Reddick has a little thumb.

Jordan Davis. Yeah, they say he's gonna be, he'll be there for week one just in time. Yeah, great. That was the thumb as part of the hand that was part of the arm that created the whole Brock Purdy.

Correct. NFC championship game demise. I think he should just take as much rest as possible, TJ. We're all hoping. I'm hoping Von Miller just wants to rest week one. You're hoping Saquon Barkley is gonna just somehow someway have one one last impasse. He should not have agreed to that contract.

You know, you should have taken a stand for his fellow running back. We're all hoping. We're all hoping. Our week one hope chest is filled with unreasonable requests.

Take your time. Because, Rich, if not Saquon, then who? If not now and week one in particular, then when? Yeah, I got you. You want Bakhtiari to stay in Green Bay just until week three.

Or the whole season. He's gonna stay there. But did you see that? We'll talk about that, actually. I saw Rogers tagged him in an Instagram post. But did you see where he tagged him? On the butt.

Well, it's not just on the butt. Say what? We'll talk about it. Yeah. We'll take a break and talk about that, because the Jets have put Dalvin Cook in front of a microphone to talk about his new digs.

That's how we'll wrap up the show. But Don Van Natta Jr., the investigative reporter of ESPN and multiple Pulitzer Prize winner, when we come back, let's talk about AG1 people, a new partner of the Rich Eisen Show, a daily foundational nutritional supplement that helps support whole body health. And if you're like me, then it's so hard to keep up with a supplement routine throughout your busy day when it comes with a bunch of products on top of it. So when you drink AG1, you notice an overall feeling of health.

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Subscription auto renews. Back here on the Roku channel feed, our radio audience will join us in a couple minutes time. In the same way that I didn't think I'd be talking about my moisturizing techniques with Taylor Lewan, I didn't think that you guys would be talking kicks with Don Van Atten, Jr.

I mean, I didn't have that. What do you have on today, Don? What do you have on today? I've got the Knicks, the mid ones, fresh out of the box.

Stock X delivery and yeah. Look at you. Don's speaking our language right now. I had to represent, you know, on this show. Well done.

Nice and clean. You see that, Rich? You see that? Our reputation as sneakerheads precedes us. Now Don comes in and he felt like he had to step his shoes in. I didn't know.

I would have worn my Frederick Vice shoes. Well, he wasn't a mid one, right? No. Who's a mid one for the... He was mid, that's for sure. No, he's a high one. Didn't they draft him high up, the Knicks?

Didn't they do that? He's mid as a player. Like a Kenny Skywalker type. Get those Patrick Ewings. I got it. When Kenny Skywalker won the slam dunk contest and he was the first Knick to do that, I was hyped. It's huge. I was. It was huge. It was.

I was like oddly proud of that. A little shattering. Yeah. Yeah. So are you from New York City? I'm from northern New Jersey. Okay.

Bergen County kid. I know what that is. That's Route 4 and all that stuff, right? Yeah. Exit 68. Nice. Mahwah, Ridgewood. Okay.

That area, yeah. That's where you got started? So I was a Knicks and Mets fan, but I'm also a Vikings fan because my dad was a Joe Capp fan.

Okay. And he made me root for the Vikings as a little boy, Fran Tarkenton fan, and then he switched over to the Cowboys because he was like Roger Staubach. And so I had been a long suffering Vikings fan for Super Bowl losses. But you didn't make the Cowboys switch is what you're saying? Didn't make the Cowboys switch with that, yeah.

But he saddled me with the Vikings. And it's all Joe Capp's fault. You're reporting on Jerry Jones. It's obvious you're not a Cowboy fan, Don.

This is a professional. I shouldn't even say that. And the Wilfs are from New Jersey. Yes, they are. Of the Vikings. The owners of the Minnesota Vikings.

They're New Jerseyites owning the Minnesota Vikings. Yes, they are. Okay.

So now let's recall full circle. All right. So we're here on our Roku channel stream, back on the Rich Eisen Show radio network as well. I'm sitting at the Rich Eisen Show desk, furnished by Grainger with supplies and solutions for every industry.

Grainger is the right product for you. Call clickgrainger.com or just stop by. Love this man's work. And I'm not just saying that because you're looking at me introducing you for the second time here. Don Van Natta Jr., ESPN's investigative reporter on the Rich Eisen Show. Good to see you, sir.

Great to see you, Rich. Thank you. What did you win your two Pulitzers for? I was at the New York Times. There were staff Pulitzers. One was the aftermath of 9-11. We did a series of stories about Al Qaeda and won a Pulitzer for that. I think the Times won seven Pulitzers after 9-11.

And the other was about Chinese, China basically buying equipment that they should not have been buying from some American companies. Okay. And that was the first one.

Does that include James Harden's wine and shoes now? That was easy, right, Chris? Yeah, it was. That was easy? That was the layup. That was easy. So what is the story, do you think, of the NFL right now?

What is it? I know that there's a lot. I just gave you a very macro question, but what do you think, John? First of all, I think they're loving every single economic metric. They're all going in the right direction. They love legalized gambling.

We talked about this, I think, last time I was here, because the Supreme Court had just decided to legalize sports wagering across the country. They're thrilled with that. They're very happy to be rid of Dan Snyder.

There's a lot of happiness about that. Everybody that I talk to, I think they actually bent over backwards, Rich, to allow Josh Harris a lot of leeway when it came to debt, and actually bent some rules on that purchase. That's how badly they wanted to get rid of Dan Snyder. Yeah, so if you had ownership on sodium pentothal, they would have said, what about Dan Snyder? Everything that you think, pretty much?

Yeah. Did he really threaten to have dirt on fellow owners? So we broke that story in October of last year, and what he did is he didn't threaten it publicly, obviously. He told other owners that he had dirt on fellow owners, including Jerry Jones, and on Roger Goodell, and if forced with his back against the wall, he would use it to blow up the entire league. And when we broke that story, I think that that really was the beginning of the end for him, because Jerry Jones was his last wall of defense in the NFL among the owners. Jerry saw him as a protege for years, and years, and years, and I think as his support was dwindling among the owners, Jerry Jones was the last guy standing, and when Jerry found that out, I think it was all over, and just three weeks later, if you remember, he announced he was going to sell the team. Jim Mersey came out shortly after our story at that owners meeting, and said we have to take a look at Dan Snyder, and then he announced that he was going to sell the team in early November, just a few weeks after that story. And then when the vote finally did just come in, I guess last month, that I still couldn't believe it. It was truly one of those, like, I will have to see it to believe it. And even though all the reports were saying, on this day, Dan Snyder is going to sell the team, and the owners of the NFL will approve the sale, and it's going to happen. Even on that day, I'm like, is this really going to happen?

And then a video of Jerry Jones coming up the escalator, remember we played that video of him? He had these shades on with a big smile on his face. It's like, today's a great day or something like that.

It's a great day for the NFL. That's what he said. That's exactly what he said. And what he meant was, because $6 billion was paid this record amount for an NFL franchise that arguably, you know, is the worst of all the franchises.

Dead last of local revenue, a stadium that's crumbling, all the problems that the Washington franchise has. And it still fetches more than $6 billion. That's what Jerry meant. He meant it's a great day.

So again, we don't have to play it sound full, but just play the video. So when he's coming up the escalator, we're like, and he's saying this, we thought like, oh, wow, he's so excited to have Dan Snyder out. But instead, he's thinking about his own net worth is what you're saying, and how much the Cowboys are going to be worth. Not like he's going to sell it. The Jones family is going to have it forever, because there were Stevens smiling in the background as well.

But that's basically what you're saying. He's thinking right there. There's no doubt in my mind that's what he was thinking. And you know, I think they, when we did our story last October, Rich, about Snyder running around saying he had dirt. Now, I don't know whether he had dirt. I just know he was telling people, including fellow owners. I know that Jerry Jones still, after our story ran, still said all sorts of nice things about Snyder. Well, we'll have to see.

You know, he didn't want to say anything critically about him, critical of him. And I think a big part of that, a big motive for that, was because he wanted to make sure that valuation stayed as high as possible. The owners have their eyes on those numbers. That Forbes report that comes out every year, that does the estimates, and obviously the most valuable franchise is the Dallas Cowboys. But they look at that, and those valuations have spiraled exponentially. So when a team like the Commanders, which is in such dire straits, sells for that kind of money, that's what Jerry meant. It's a great day for all of the NFL owners. Everybody in that club was smiling for that reason. They were happy to be rid of Snyder, too. But that's what they were looking at for the future.

The next club that comes on the market will be worth that much more. Don Van Natta Jr. of ESPN here on The Rich Eisen Show. You sat down, you said you just went to Vegas, right?

You were just there. What's the deal with Gruden? What can you tell me what's going on there? The Gruden story is the Gruden story is really, I think, the biggest concern among the owners right now, because Gruden has said that he is not going to settle. So it's now in the Nevada Supreme Court. The lawsuit that John Gruden filed against the NFL and against Roger Goodell, alleging that they leaked those emails that cost him his job and his career. And Gruden has told people that he will burn the house down. He'll burn the NFL down to get the truth. And my sense since our story that we did, I did with Seth Wickersham, my colleague at ESPN. I've talked to people around Gruden, close to Gruden, and he is all in to get the truth. So if the Nevada Supreme Court rules in his favor, there will be discovery.

And that discovery means that Gruden's attorneys can subpoena Roger Goodell, every single owner if they want to, to try to find out if the NFL did, in fact, leak those emails that cost Gruden his job. When does that ruling in the Nevada system come down? Expected in October.

Expected in just a couple of months. But I know from talking to people around the league, owners and executives, they're very, very concerned about it because Gruden is very, very upset. He wants the truth.

He said no number on a check will satisfy him. And he wants his career back. I think he wants to coach again. As you know, you know, he's working with the Saints. Yeah, I know he's been at the Saints training camp. But I imagine doesn't the NFL, I mean, with discovery, not everything is going to be great for John Gruden to come out. Right. I mean, and if he burns the NFL's house down, which owner is going to say, oh, yeah, we'll hire you and put you on the sideline.

So that's great. That's a great question. The other the other issue, too, Rich, is the 650,000 emails that were amassed. Those Bruce Allen emails are the Wilkinson investigation. And the worry is that discovery will lead to those emails as well coming out.

And we've heard from people around the league. There's all sorts of other dirty laundry hidden in those emails about all sorts of people around the NFL. So the NFL is in a defensive crouch, very, very concerned about the lawsuit. And it's the balls in the court, the Nevada Supreme Court. And so and Gruden is just still angry, pissed about everything else.

Extremely angry. What do you think happened? Well, our story laid out, I think, a pretty compelling case that there were a number of groups that had access to the emails and were involved in the leaking. We reported that Damora Smith, the outgoing now the ex head of the National Football League Players Association, had gotten a copy of that first email and brag that he leaked it to The Wall Street Journal. That second set of emails to The New York Times, Rich, I believe that the league had something to do with it. That's what our reporting showed. Mm hmm.

Rock Nation. Our reporting showed people told us was also involved. Desiree Perez, the CEO there. Yeah, that was that was reported in our story last month where we laid it all out. I think that everybody had a motive to leak it. And I think we laid who had access to it.

We went into and you and I talked about it when I was on your show just a couple of weeks ago when I was on the phone. I mean, you know, there's a lot of animosity between Roger Goodell and John Gruden, certainly in John Gruden's mind. He was running around, you know, telling people, you know, I'm the head of the F Roger Goodell Club. And, you know, the his lawyers believe that got back to Goodell.

And that was a motive for Goodell greenlighting the league. It just like I I mean, again, I'm I'm I just hear something like that. I'm just like the commissioner has got so many other fish to fry. Like he's he's hearing John Gruden's bad mouth. And that might just he would laugh that off, not like, say, let's do something that could potentially be blow up in our faces here.

You know, and he like that's the thing I don't understand. If the NFL leaked it, then this is a this is something that the NFL doesn't want discussed that that an executive and a coach is actually saying these sorts of things. I mean, that's what the NFL has said in court.

You're you're hitting right on a really important point, right? Is the NFL has said in court, you know, we had no incentive to do this. This was going to be disruptive to a season that was going along great. And, you know, and actually what happened was once those emails were leaked and it was this, you know, huge controversy over again. It reminded everybody of Dan Snyder all over again. And just a week later, Congress opened up that investigation, that wide ranging investigation that subpoenaed Dan Snyder. Remember when he was on his super yacht running around the Mediterranean and avoiding that subpoena? Roger Goodell had to subpoena. It wasn't just an investigation of Dan Snyder and Washington commanders. It was an investigation of the NFL. So the consequences of those leaks were very, very dire. They led, I believe, to Snyder eventually having to sell the team.

Well, and again, I know we discussed this the last time you were on, but I. It's true that Snyder called Gruden fat and and that's the genesis of the spat between these two men that led to potentially all of this stuff. Yeah, they they they didn't like each other. And then there was this one incident in our story. A lot of people don't like Dan Snyder.

Yes, it seems like there's a lot of folks, but OK, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yeah, no, but absolutely right. It was it was they were back and forth one night in a restaurant. Gruden has told people that Snyder was quite drunk.

Yeah. And they got into it. And yeah, you know, you're you're fat. Snyder said, Gruden, you're fat. Gruden said, I'll dribble your head like a basketball.

And it was just ugly language. And and so from Gruden's perspective and his camp's perspective, they're thinking, OK, this is another reason, another motivation that Snyder had for initially looking at these racist, misogynistic emails that Gruden wrote years ago when he was an announcer at ESPN and said, let's get him out there. Let's get rid of this guy.

And from the perspective of the Gruden camp, they believe Goodell also had a similar motive that Snyder and Goodell looked at Gruden the same way and helped push these emails out to get rid of Gruden. Don Van Natta here on The Rich Eisen Show from ESPN, the investigative reporter. So what's the future of football on TV? Do you think, you know, obviously we're on a streamer right now. Amazon Prime has Thursday Night Football, YouTube TV is getting the Sunday ticket, which, by the way, you can get right here on Roku, mandated to say so. And and Peacock is going to have a playoff game this year behind a paywall.

That's a first. What do you think the future of television is for the NFL based on some of the conversations you're hearing? Well, I know that the owners love, obviously, the more people at the table with deep pockets and the streamers, the apples of the world and Amazon's have very, very deep pockets and run up the score, run up the price for the packages, the happier they are.

Right. And there was actually a movement rich years ago to get the streamers involved even earlier because there was a sense among some of the owners, look, the quicker we can go to this world of five, six, seven different carriers with a piece of the NFL pie, the higher it will be, the higher the cost will be for every single one of them. Now, we have a long I think it's a nine year deal, right?

The media deal is a long way off now because, of course, we have labor piece for just as long. But but no, they love it. The owners and executives love it. They love the fact that the Sunday ticket package is going to YouTube and and it appears that you're going to be able to watch what, four games or eight games?

You're going to be able to do your own Octobox, I think. Right. Watching.

But I just I just saw that in the last day or two. I mean, that's Scott Hansen will be so jealous that you get to do it on your own tickets to some of Scott's territory. You know, you don't you don't you better have the horns if you go with that. OK, so why am I looking at you as I deliver that? I'm looking for the laugh, Chris. That's what I'm looking for. I know what you want.

Thank you. And so how about this one? What do you think's happened with the running back market, Don? You hear collusion and I keep saying like, what do you think?

Like all 32 owners are let's close the door and let's make sure running backs don't get paid. It feels that way. It feels that way.

It really does. But you know how it works in these rooms. Like you like you really think that there that's what's happening right now for real? Yeah. I mean, you know, there are people around certainly there are people on the union side that believe there was collusion when it came to keeping Ray Rice out of the league after what happened back in 2014, keeping Colin Kaepernick out of the league. People believe that was, you know, a smoke filled room discussion that happened among among the membership, as they call themselves, the owners. I don't know. It feels that way because it's so pronounced and it's so dramatic. Yes.

And and it's happened so suddenly. I'd love to dig into it. Okay. Good subject. Again, I don't want to infringe on the stuff that you're working on right now or potentially not.

Yeah. And again, this might be a better question for your colleague, Seth Wickersham. But I'll ask it anyway to see if you have any two cents on it. Chris Brockman, diehard Patriot fan over there has been talking about it for a while. That Belichick is potentially on a hot seat this year that that he's coaching for his gig. Any conversations that you've heard or had that you're willing to share on this front of Rob Kraft? I think there's some truth to it.

I mean, just some of the buzz that I've heard. Kraft is impatient. He's very spoiled.

He had such a great run. He doesn't like what he's seen the last couple of years. They have a complicated relationship. Seth went into it in some detail in his book.

Yes. And it's not as close as people think. And so, yeah, I mean, it's hard to believe that Belichick would be on the hot seat, right, with maybe arguably the greatest coach of all time, certainly in the conversation, right, with Lombardi. But yeah, Kraft wants to win again. Kraft has his eye. The other thing about Robert Kraft, you may know this, Rich, is he has his eye on that Hall of Fame prize. Fortunately, he did not get named the finalist yesterday.

He did not. Yeah. And I know how much that disappoints him, deeply disappoints him. You know, there's a rivalry between Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft.

I've talked about it before. And the fact Jerry got in quite a few years ago now and Kraft is not there. Kraft feels that he's been just as instrumental in the business side of the NFL, growing the TV stuff. He was involved in that committee for years and was quite instrumental in growing that part of the business for the NFL.

So what is it? Is it the scandals, the cheating scandals that were... No, I don't know. That befell the Patriots?

I don't have a vote. I would have to ask, you know, the Peter Kings of the world that question. But certainly from Robert Kraft's perspective, the people around him that I've talked to, feels like, look, look at what we've done with the franchise. I mean, the dynasty and also what I've done for the NFL. Well, him hugging it out with Jeff Saturday during the lockout. That's right. That was pretty damn big. Huge.

I lost much of my remaining hair during 2011. No, he came to the rescue. That's exactly right. On that first CBA when DeMora Smith was in charge, it was really Robert Kraft and Saturday who cobbled that deal together. And so, yeah, there's a strong argument I think you can make for Robert Kraft.

So yeah, I know he's very, very disappointed and that's something he desperately wants. And the last one for you, what did you make of Jim Irsay's comments about Jonathan Taylor and basically like, hey, we're all going to be dead one day and the NFL is going to move on without us. So why do I need to pay my running back? You know, it's Irsay being Irsay, but it gets to your earlier question again of that kind of a comment I think is intended to send a message. Irsay is very good at sending messages. He did to Dan Snyder. And I think that was to his credit. He was one of the only owners to come out and basically say, we got to do something about this guy. He was the only owner, Rich, to actually write, to have the courage to do that. Now, I believe other owners were very, very happy that he did it.

He was sort of the spokesman for the men and women in that room. But yeah, I think that that was another loud message that was sent by Irsay that this market is, you know, and I think Ezekiel Elliott's contract, if I had to look at it, is a big reason why there's a reset. It was a massive amount of money. And look at the wear and tear on him, the injuries that occurred. And now he just signed this one-year deal.

And I think they thought, we're not doing that again. Yeah, I guess Zeke's contract, Gurley's contract, right? Todd Gurley's contract.

Yes, that's right. But McCaffrey's, and the thing that I can't, you know, that is just amazing, McCaffrey's contract, right, and how I think he's worth every penny. And, you know, even heard Aaron Rodgers say when Dalvin Cook signed, he was caping for the running back market about how you got to run the football to win in this league. He's not wrong. But when it's time to, running backs are valued up until the moment they ask for their money to be valued properly.

That's right. And I think there's something wrong about that. But they are in a position where somebody could be drafted and immediately have an impact in a way that other positions aren't, you know, like that. But put it all together, though. It's just wild to me that the supposed fungibility of the position began in the Mike Shanahan world.

Yes. And the coach who employs the highest paid running back right now is Kyle, running an offense very similar to it. So even this offense, where Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson, we all know the litany, succeeded, they still have the guy that's valued the most and is paid the most. It's kind of wild.

It is wild. And we'll see what McCaffrey does. I mean, that's the other fascinating thing that will play out this season, right, is to see, okay, there's a devaluation of the running backs in the marketplace. But let's see now if there's a devaluation of the running backs among the coaches and on the field.

And that's going to be really interesting to do that comparison this season. No doubt about it. Don, thanks for coming on. Greatly appreciate it. Anytime.

Let me know when you're in Los Angeles, and I've got a seat here anytime. I'm always fascinated to know what's on your mind. Thank you, Rich.

What's in your notebook that you're willing to share. Everybody check out Don Van Natta on, do we call it X now? I'm still calling it Twitter. I don't think I'll ever call it X.

And that stupid X on our phones. Well, you've made the mistake. You updated. Don't update. Oh, you're not supposed to update? I made the mistake.

Well, you were supposed to update. But if you want to keep the blue bird. But yeah, you got that X on your front of your iPhone just looks horrible.

It is horrible. Yeah. Move it to the second swipe. Move it over. Oh, OK.

Simple, simple way to make Don's life better. I'm trying. Take the mug, by the way. Don't worry about it. Don't take it. He said Jeremy Shapp gave him grief for taking an Outside the Lines mug. I did.

I was so proud to be on the Outside the Lines set the first time. And I just took the mug. I figured you could, right? And I get home and I see scotch tape on the bottom. It says, Jeremy, I stole Jeremy Shapp's mug.

I will never hear the end of that one. So ESPN doesn't have too many OTL mugs? No.

They're limited. Now, can you do you still have the mug? I do. All right. Do me a favor. Yes, sir. Scratch underneath the Jeremy tape and see if it says Bob underneath it. That's a great. Maybe they only have one mug that gets handed down.

That's right. And you five finger discounted Jeremy's mug, Don. When I get home to Miami, Rich, I will do that and I will let you know. Let me know if it says Bob underneath it. You have struck gold. You're definitely not giving that back. That's going on eBay right away.

Don Van Natta here on The Rich Isaac Show will wrap up in a moment. Between the kids being home and hosting, everything in our house gets used up in summer. With Instacart, I can save money by stocking up on all my favorite summer brands. I save time by getting everything delivered in as fast as an hour. And I save myself a sink full of dirty dishes by stocking up on paper plates for the annual summer cookout. Save more on summer essentials.

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Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Pictures for a minute. Yeah, right. You gotta go with something, right? There's Julio. Won't you let me take you on a seat.

Cruz had three doubles for the Mariners. Okay, so it's just it came out. It worked. That's not the question you asked me. The ones that work the best are the ones that they're all plays on names. None are derogatory, but you don't have to eat. So Burt be home by 11, right?

That's a good one. So well, you don't have to know he's a pitcher. You don't have to know he throws a curve ball. You don't have to know anything, right? Every kid's heard it.

Every parent said it. You don't even have to be a baseball fan to get that. So a lot of them are food.

Some of them are. I mean, John tonight, let it be Lowenstein. I mean, there's Jose. Can you see Cruz?

O to be young again. McDowell. I mean, there was Jim two silhouettes on the shades. I mean, that's music.

Joe actual retail price. I mean, there's just it's but there's it's a game everyone can play, you know? And then then with football, you go over to high only under highlights. And, you know, Eric sleeping with an art innocent until proven guilty. Everybody has their bad moon rising. Well, that was next. Well, he tattooed bad moon right here on three tattooed days. Andre is great on the left. On the left by no way. He knew who created Clearwater Revival. No way.

But bad moon rising, you know, tons of them. Ah, yes. The great Chris Berman and are set out the Super Bowl years ago. YouTube dot com slash Rich Eisen show for our full archive. Eight four four two oh four.

Rich is always the number to tell. What a show, right? Yeah. Talking moisturizing with Taylor Lewan and then the seat that will Compton was sitting in as well.

I use the word fungibility with Don Van Natta Jr. And I just think it just shows you my range range depth. Unfortunately, I forgot to hydrate. I pulled something. I. No pickleball this weekend.

Oh, that's not true. I'll be ready. Get out of here. Come on.

Hey, Dalvin cooks a jet, people. Congrats. I'm so excited. Is he playing this weekend? Ah, good question. I don't know.

I don't care. How's that sound? As long as he plays week one, because we're much better for it. And yeah, we I just ease the week. Oh, so the cheerleading is back. Yeah, baby.

I'm excited. Put the jersey on. You have it behind you. I have a jersey. Just put it on.

No, I'm not putting it on. I almost got him. Dalvin Cook today asked why he signed with the New York Jets. Had this answer. I think collectively, you know, when I came on my visit, I think I pretty much seen everything I needed to see. You know, it was good vibe with the coaches, the players, you know, everybody around the building. And, you know, obviously, when you dig deep and look into the roster, I think all the pieces are put together.

I think I can come help these guys. And you look at the running back room with MC, Breeze, Bam, and all those guys with me just adding to it. I think it could be something special. I thought it was just a clip of him saying money and then walking off. Well, I mean, the Jets did pay him a nice penny. Yeah. Right?

8.6. Well, I mean, that's with incentives. I think Tom Pelissero said his base salary is more than Miles Sanders is free agent signing.

Right. For his new contract with Carolina this year. So he is the best paid free agent running back of 2023. The Jets gave him that title in the middle of August. Not counting Saquon, who signed the franchise tender. He wasn't a free agent.

And then got about a million dollars. He's not a free agent. Different story. Yeah.

So, yeah. Josh Jacobs, what are you doing? The threat of the franchise tag being pulled from him, I don't think is as dire anymore.

You must not be worried about it. Well, what are they going to just pull it and say, we'll go to battle with Kareem Hunt or Leonard Fournette? Not with Josh and let Jacobs walk. Joe Mixon just got cleared of all his charges. In Cincinnati, he's not getting cut or anything crazy like that. As you know, he cut a deal to stay in Cincinnati before all of that, right? What are the, what are the, what are the, what are they going to do in Vegas? You can get Kareem Hunt and Fournette for the five, six million total.

It's not Josh Jacobs. And you know that. And that's the ultimate respect of both of those right now.

But the two combined, you can't get the same. We're playing a win here. You're playing a win and he's got a franchise tender. And the question is, is he going to really hold out? Or why, why can't they say, I don't know, is he saying no to whatever they, are they not offering him the Saquon deal?

That's funny. We haven't heard any really reporting of what their offer, the Raiders offer has been for him, unless they're just like, here's the franchise tag. We're willing to pay this for this year and then figure out 24 and beyond. Well, that's all well and good. But the main point of it all is Dalvin Cook's a jet. And in all honesty, I mean, Breece Hall coming off the pop list, what are they going to give him a few snaps against the Buffalo Bills, maybe to get them in there week one Monday night? I wouldn't play Breece Hall at all.

Well, I mean, I don't know. We don't have, but you have to work them in against the Buffalo Bills. And then you've got the rest of the kids in the. Michael Carter's a good player. I know that.

I mean, you just went higher register on him for a reason. And Dalvin Cook is going to be the one coming downhill against the Buffalo Bills, which gives the Jets that much more firepower against the team. They have to beat in the division. And in order to do that, you have to beat them at home.

It doesn't matter if it's week one or week 18. You got to do it. And the Jets improve their chances of that happening with this move. Way to go. Way to go. And he doesn't wind up in Miami either. If that was a possibility or Denver in week five, he's yours. What a W. What a win. Just that's that's it.

I mean, that's what you got to do. You just got to make these moves, make your team better and week to week it. And in week one, a much better opportunity to give Rogers the balance with Dalvin. Dalvin Cook is Rogers playing this weekend or is he not playing at all in the preseason? I don't know.

I don't. He said he doesn't remember the last time he played in the preseason, right? He's not playing in the preseason.

Get out of here. I imagine he's getting enough work in these. He's fine. He's ready. Practices.

Last thing you're going to do is have him tweak that calf. And, you know, right. What, in the Snoopy Bowl or whatever the hell they used to play that Sanchez got hurt in? Get out of here. That's where Victor Cruz got started. Oh, yeah. Great.

I'm just saying we can we can do without his positives. Rest him. See him on the first Monday night of the season and we'll see everyone else on Friday. Tyler Lockett will be our first guest tomorrow. Don't you dare miss that. We're back on the Roku Channel to wrap up in a moment on this day. That's disgusting. Check out ARN every week, wherever you listen.